Transcript

Riot Games: Bonus Episode

Hey everyone, just wanted to let you know that I had such an amazing conversation a few weeks ago with the co-founders of Riames that we actually couldn't squeeze it all into the main interview. So today we have a bonus for you. It's my short conversation with Mark Merrill and Brandon Beck. about how video games and digital technology are transforming the way we live for good For bad and in ways we don't quite understand. And they both have some really interesting insights about all of that. Now, of course, the main episode for Riot Games is also in your cue, but if you want to listen to this bonus episode first, go right ahead, and however you decide to do it. Enjoy. You guys are you guys either you have kids yet?

Yeah, both two. Are they little little kids? I've got six, four, and two, and Mark has Seven and six. Seven, six, yeah.

Yeah. Are you guys I mean, I we are very restrictive with screens. It's a very hard and our kids fight us on this all the time. But you guys work in the screen world. Are you restrictive on screens? Big time.

Yeah. I yeah, we are very restrictive. Yeah, we have we have no screen time during the week. Without like very special exceptions. And then during the weekends, you know, now that they're older, we do a little bit more, but you know, it's like two hours a day max.

They're not like dad. You invented League of Legends, like you're are you kidding me? I can't play a video game? No, they try that. Yeah. You know that.

My son's seven and you know, he's he actually really, really enjoys video games too. It's it's fascinating. And he you know, he does try to use that against me, like you're in front of the computer all day. You know, excuse me working, you know, down on the office or whatnot, why can't I? And you know, we essentially just explain why it's important to be bored. Boredom. Is critical for Creativity.

And problem solving'cause when you're bored. Yeah, then you go, Oh, I'm gonna go pick up the stick and it's actually a sword. Yeah, and whereas if you always default to the path of these assistants where I can just grab the iPhone and instantly go play ball stars for hours. Yeah, that that couldn't have negative

Cognitive development and social development on the kids implications. I agree a thousand percent. And by the way, this is why in my house we have no screen Saturdays. We just that's the day we chose. Friday night all of our screens go into a locked cabinet. including mine and my wife's, and we don't even use our phones. So we are back in the eighties we have Physical maps.

that w well actually our car has GPS, so we do use that. But we still do uh use maps sometimes. If we get to a restaurant it's closed and we didn't call ahead. We move on. Like that's our Saturday. So we we we do that to force ourselves. To be bored, but you know

It's a problem. Like the world that You guys have helps to create. And I'm not I'm not trying to shame you. I'm just saying the world that you've been part of and helping to create has is a world where There is no boredom, and that is a really big problem.

You know, I mean d do you ever think about that? We do. Yeah. Or go ahead, B. Well I was just gonna say I mean obviously w th think about it in the context of of our own kids who um You know, who we we want to engage in that same kind of

Unstructured play. That you know, we had a lot of opportunity. And yeah,'cause I do think that that without boredom, with constant stimulation, like we just as a society, we don't know what that does yet, you know? Does it change the The de like have have you contemplated as much? Have you been in your head as much?

uh you know, as you grow up and you know, what are you if if not, what are you what are you missing and what do you lose? Um I think we're all at the very beginnings of understanding. You know, what what it means. Yeah. Well and just to add to that Everybody's still figuring out what are the right ways to govern

This new virtual landscape. And so, you know, how much should Governments regulate. And what types of content and what's a purpose. self policing or moderation or content should happen on various platforms.

You know, how should we help try to nurture you know, positive communities. And I think it's a really interesting challenge and really interesting problem and we've spent a lot of time Thinking about that. Yeah, whether it's

You know, how we try to foster sportsmanship. to parental controls, to thinking about the types of content we create. I mean it's there's a just a lot of complexity. You know I remember I went to a TE conference a couple years ago.

And the founder of Twitch, um One of the founders of Twitch spoke at the conference and He said something that really bothered me in his TED talk. You can you can you can find it on on online. He said That Twitch is, you know, is like the new campfire. It's it's actually bringing communities and people together.

And I just thought if that is the if that's the world we're gonna live in Where everyone's connecting through using Discord and and and Twitch and You know that that's not a world I w I'm I'm looking forward to. Like that is not the campfire. Like humans need to be

Together. And that really worries me. Now, maybe I'm a tinfoil lunatic here on this. Maybe any everyone listening is like you are Like you're just I I just can't believe that that's the new campfire. I just I don't wanna believe that. I don't know. Do you guys

What what you know, sitting around and playing massive multiplayer online games Should be the new campfire. So I think it's a new type of campfire, but I don't think it's It replaces

social interaction in a physical space. But I think You know, it also depends on who you are. Right. And so As an example.

If you have a you know physical disability. Right. That could be pretty Debilitating. All of a sudden. Right, if you can engage

online worlds or or virtual games or whatnot, you can now have a You know, it to a certain extent many people have reported Better.

quality of life in terms of forging social relationships and you know, deeply meaningful Connections to people. Yeah. to Brandon's point earlier, like I personally have made friendships

that are gonna be lifelong from playing MOs. So like I went to a friend's wedding in outside of London in the English countryside because I played Everquest with them and brought my wife and we got to Go hang out with his own. Awesome English family and That was that was really cool. And it's because we know each other so well because we spend a lot of time online.

And so a lot of what players love to do online is just another way of connecting. Like if you if you graduate high school and you go off to college you can stay more connected to a lot of your friends by doing some activities online and that's positive. And then you can come back, of course, and see each other. Yeah, in person or You can go to an esports event or you know, another physical event also where you get together with other people who love the thing that you like also, and in terms of productivity there, too. This is a this is a just uh this could be a whole separate episode, but I will just say one one thing, which is

With every technology there are incredible benefits. YouTube, right, like has amazing videos, uh just unbelievable videos and Facebook connects people who have lost touch and Twitter can be an incredible source of information. I mean in Northern during wildfires, it's wonderful. But there's There's a flip side to it, which is there is There's also a lot of really bad behavior. I guess you could say well there's a lot of bad behavior in the in in the public square too, right? But when people can be anonymous behind a screen.

they feel safer to be More cruel. Or more destructive in their behavior. It's just thinking that's really sad. I just it it's it really bothers me.

Well, we've we've thought about this a lot and studied it and built teams that have tried to really cultivate a positive community, and it's a really complex problem. But I Yeah, I think Brain and I both agree with the dynamic you're describing, where there is definitely a major downside

Two. a lot of this technology and this connectivity. And I think it's incumbent upon all of us as Need it. business leaders, technology leaders, you know, community leaders, uh our government to help figure out how to we how do we create

A new structure around human interaction in virtual environments. Better. In a lot of ways, and to to reduce and mitigate the harm.

And I'll give you an example, but Yeah, to a certain extent, like you Like you mentioned on the round the campfire on Twitch or whatnot, or on Twitter. You know, like It's like having

You go to a A football game at the Coliseum, right? American football. There you know, there could be a hundred thousand people screaming and watching an event or a match happening. But now a hundred percent of the conversations Or the words that somebody is saying.

In that stadium as a fan. is now permanently recorded and not only that can be directly sent to that player that maybe you'd yell at and be like, Oh, you get disappointed if somebody drops a pass. You know, like oh that guy sucks or something. Now the tweet when somebody says that goes to that person. And they're gonna see it. Whereas in general, somebody may just say that in passing, you know, in a stadium and be like, Oh, you know, that player.

But then if they go see that that player at a bar, they'd be thrilled to be like, Oh my gosh, what's up? Yeah, and so a lot of times People, I think technology makes it feel worse than what they actually intend, because in a moment of weakness or a moment of emotion, somebody has an outburst. And the other person that's receiving that doesn't actually know.

Yeah. And the we've studied this where you know, we built this player behavior team. And about forty percent of League of Legends players. will never be mean to somebody else in a game. They're just always cool.

And then about l less than one percent of players, literally less than one percent. will be total jerks that just try to go ruin the game. A lot of the time for other people. And it's you know, it's us easy for us. So we go, let's just ban those people, right? Whenever we fem and try to built build better detection mechanisms to help keep our community clean. But then the remainder. Which is, you know, close to sixty percent of the population.

That everybody or that other group sometimes has a bad day and sometimes they can be rude to somebody. And what we found is when we're able to build automated feedback tools that jump up and tell them, Hey, like you've been reported or this is negative that your behavior just did. Seventy percent of our players that receive these these warnings and these this feedback.

continue to play the game and never get those warnings again. So we can find ways to help train people to be more aware. Of their behavior. Right, in a similar way to if you think about Little League sports. You know, like people learn how to be

you know, humble in victory and gracious in defeat because they have coaches and all that. Like that infrastructure and societal infrastructure to help people learn how to behave in a civil manner, it doesn't exist yet, right? We're building this stuff incrementally. And so but we need it in order to Not have mental illness. rates continue to climb and you know all the negative things that you're that you're seeing. That's Mark Merrill and Brandon Beck.

The co founders of Riot Games To hear the whole story of how the company was founded, Just look in your podcast queue, the full episode should be right there. And thanks, as always, for listening.