#157 - Instagram Food Drops Making $200k a Week, Chrome Extensions That are Crushing It & Open Salaries

It's insane. This whole gu this guy's life is insane is what I can see from this. I mean, this guy's his steroids are You know, as good as his cookies, I would say. Yeah, give I want the H C H drop. I feel like I can rule the world of no way You look fantastic. You upgraded.

Uh I'm currently recording. I wish I could turn the camera around, but I don't want to screw it up. But I'm sitting at my friend Jack's house in Hawaii where I'm having a a week vacation. Congratulations. Well deserved. Uh yeah. Yeah. It's it's cool. Uh just got here, but Uh gonna be here for maybe five days.

But it's all right. H how's uh things going with you? Yeah, things are good. Did you see um This thing that the these guys who tweeted at us that were like, dude, we will pimp out your your stream. Did you watch these videos that they made?

No, I've been flying, but They said that they booked it. Ticket to Austin. Going. To our to my house.

I don't know if they I don't think no, no, they're they're waiting for us to be like yes or no. But uh These guys applied very intelligently. I gotta give him credit. So Basically, they saw that we were trying to upgrade our stuff and they're like, We'll do this for you. We'll make it no hassle. I'll come to you. I will hook it up.

And a few people tweeted a tweeted something like that at us. And you were like kind of You know. Humoring it, I guess. And then these three guys are are kind of like I think they're like college st seniors or something like that. I don't really know. Didn't look too far into it.

But they sent us a video they gonna watch. Here's what we're gonna do. And they recorded a video and it's looks like a Casey Nistat video. Like the quality is like that and the editing style and storytelling is like that. It's a funny video. It was basically telling us how to pimp how they would pimp out our stream.

And uh they kept calling it like, you know, my first million to the moon. And they're like, we're gonna take this baby to the moon. Here's how we're gonna do it. And so they did two things. He he showed how his camera setup, how they do it for their podcast, and it looks awesome, looks way better than ours. And then um Also, he's the then the next day he sent us an edit clip. of a con of the of you telling the story of

bumping into the Silk Road founder at a party and he like stole your girl or whatever. And um they edit like a little clip and they're like, dude, we'll pump out clips like these all the time. My first million to the boom, baby. And uh are they good? They're good. They're really good. Both videos are really good. Where first of all, h why let's hire them. And second w where did they send this to? On Twitter? I've I was I've been flying since Saturday. It's on Twitter. I sent you a link'cause I was like Dude, fuck yes. This is like

This is you know, like it's like the opposite of a job application. Normally you get a job app you you You put a job up that you want to hire somebody to do X. And then some people apply and then you're like, are you kind of squinting? You're like, do I think this person's really gonna be able to do it? And then you'd make a guess. And then it takes them fucking six weeks to ramp up. And then or this guy just applies showing, look, I can do it. I've done it for myself. I'll do it for you. And uh let me make this easy for you. Let me show you how bad I want this. And I just thought, like, this is so much better than.

Than what we've been talking about of trying to find people to do this stuff. I'm looking at his okay, cool. His name's Dylan Jarden. Weird last name. Uh yeah. Dylan, if you're listening to this, let's do it.

I'm in. Um, and you know, I I don't know, there's probably people at the hustle who have similar jobs, but I think we should reward the hustle of these guys and be like The gig is yours to like pim out our the video side of our podcast. I think we should give we should give them the the chat. Alright.

I'm in. Cool. Um all right, we have a bunch of topic we wanted to talk about. Where do you want to start? You wanna start with this open salary thing? No, let's start with food. Cause you the the was this yours? Yeah. I've thought about this for years. So I have a lot of

I've got I've got something boiling up. Let me intro this. Alright, so I'm talking to Ben My right hand man Ben and Ben's kind of like

Uh, you know, I'm easily excitable. You could tell by the way I talk. Ben is the opposite. He's chill mode, he's always relaxed. And um But when Ben mentions things I've learned like when he says something it's just like Like Oh, this is cool. You should check this out. It's actually fucking amazing. And he just doesn't say hey, dude.

He doesn't like shake you and say, look at this, this is amazing. And So he showed me this thing that is amazing. So he he goes. Check out this website um or this Instagram handle, My Cookie Dealer. I was like my cookie dealer, so I go to it.

You should click these mics button. God, I'm looking at it now. I want to eat this. Dude. So all right, so so he sent me three Instagram accounts. He sent me buy cookie dealer, click the second one, one nine hundred ice cream. So like one eight hundred, but one nine hundred ice cream. One nine hundred ice cream looks So good. Just like describe what you're seeing. It's incredible. Is it a pie? I don't know what this is exactly, like what you would call it, but it's a It's a

Cone? It looks like there's a stick. So like at the top of the stick where you would have like a popsicle, instead it's like a full ice cream concoction. Which is like the ice cream and all the toppings and the fudge on top or whatever. It looks amazing. You should if you have Instagram go to go to one nine hundred ice cream. There's one called the Cupcake Wonderland, which is uh vanilla ice cream, rainbow sprinkle, strawberry marshmallow icing. Mm. So they call themselves they call themselves the ice cream uh thirst trap.

slash thick check trademark um and and they uh they have a bunch of followers they've they've grown really quickly uh twenty six thousand followers So Ben was sort of s sending me these and I was like okay cool food account on Instagram. That's not too new. What what a what what do I care about this food porn? He's like, no, no, no, dude, I've been trying to send you one of these. And I've been trying to like get these myself. They do weekly drops. of their stuff and these are selling out.

instantaneously. So I go, What do you mean? So he showed me my cookie dealer. So my cookie dealer does a drop, a cookie drop. Every week they do a random cookie drop. So a different flavor or whatever. And it sells out within literally seconds. And they're doing$200,000 a week. They're doing$10 million a year.

Dropping cookies. on Instagram and just instantly selling out and then they ship them, you know, a few days later, that that they know how many orders they get. And then they ship them out a few days later. Um kind of like you know, nationwide or whatever.

And uh there's another one, Allie's banana bread. Go look at this banana bread, dude. It just Look at this banana bread. I want to print this banana bread out and just lick the paper. It looks so good. And same thing. S sells out of the way. Dude.

Check this out. So if you go to uh mycookie dealer dot com That's the website. Okay, click click Instagram page. Are you on their Instagram? Tell me when you're on their Instagram page. I'm on it.

Okay. You see, go scroll up to their profile. And you see who where it says like the owner is this guy named Juan Diesel Moore? Morell. Click it. Oh dude, he's like a bodybuilder. This guy is huge.

This guy is so big. He looks like if you've ever seen a ESPN or whatever bodybuilding competition where the guys are like this crazy color of skin that nobody is, and he's just humongous. Well, I no, I I can't tell if it's like the tan I think it's a black guy. I think it's a white guy. You know the like the white guy the black tan for bodybuilding. Well and then look at his wife. It's insane. This whole gu this guy's life is insane is what I can see from this. I mean, this guy's his steroids are You know, as good as his cookies, I would say. Yeah, give I want the HGH drop. This is awesome, man. This is cool. Okay, so Ali's banana bread.

So Ali's banana bread. So there's a bunch of these. So Ben is like deep knee deep in this world of like Instagram food brands that are basically They're kinda like Drop shipping baked goods all around the country. So they have them for cakes, ice creams. Banana breads, and they're just specialists. And so there's a couple of cool things that I wanted to bring up about this. And I know you have some stuff on food too, but the part that I thought was cool was.

So the internet is The internet is really good at doing this. Which is Normal before the internet. you would just go to whatever's like your local whatever. So you'd find the best within your local radius of five to ten miles or whatever it is, that's what you would go by. But with the internet, whether it's news or comedy or whatever,

Um The best thing can just get distributed everywhere. And so the best brand wins on the internet. And so this is why you see things get so big, you know, like Facebook and other other platforms because

The best the the best thing will get all the users. And It's what's interesting is that these guys are doing this with food. So if these guys really do make the best goddamn banana bread or best cookies or best ice cream. They don't need a physical shop. They could just through Instagram alone spending zero dollars on marketing. have customers worldwide. Like Ali's banana bread literally ships worldwide. And um so if you're the best at making something now, you have a pathway to become like a multi-millionaire.

um, where that really wasn't possible if you were just a local baker and whatever in Cincinnati, you know, you were always restricted by however many customers you could get in your local radio. So I thought that's Pretty cool. The second thing is if you think about this. You know Um, this is like a mix of a bunch of things that we've been talking about for a while. So we've been talking about cloud kitchens. So these are essentially

Like cloud ice cream shops or cloud bakeries. They don't have like a physical storefront necessarily. They're all in the cloud, and you just order online. The second thing is direct to consumer. So they're going direct to their fans. They're getting their fans phone numbers. And so that when they do a drop, they just text everybody like. One picture. of the new thing and then instantaneously people buy. And I think that's kind of like amazing, a a way to go to direct to consumer. You don't have to worry about getting on the shelf at you know Whole Foods or wherever else to to build your your brand as a cookie company or whatever. And

Go ahead. No. Keep going. Last one is if you think about it, like you know, who's gonna be the next Mrs. Fields or Ben and Jerry's or like Auntie Andy's pretzels. It's gonna be one of these brands. It's gonna be one of these cloud bakeries. Doing it on Instagram, building a cult following like these guys are doing.

And um And you're gonna see, I I predict you you're gonna see just like Um, I forgot what was the name of that meme company that sold for like a hundred million dollars. They hit like they were the ones behind um Daquan and whatever, like the couple of the meme Instagram accounts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eight months ago, maybe. Yeah, we talked about it on the pod. And Well you see it's right there. You see it? I can't get it for IMGM media. So so basically, you know, some brand that just owned a bunch of like meme accounts on Instagram sold for like a hundred million dollars, I think, if I remember correctly. You're gonna see the same thing in the food space. You're gonna see a bunch of private equity companies coming in and they're gonna buy up.

know Allie's but Allie's banana bread they're gonna buy up one nine hundred ice cream because they're gonna be like dude this is the next Ben and Jerry's and we're gonna take this this thing we're gonna put it on steroids we're gonna advertise the fuck out of it and then we're gonna get it into retail stores on top of what it's already doing. And so you're I think you're gonna see a bunch of these if I can go invest in those four brands that we talked about right now. I would go give them each, you know, a twenty five K check because I think these are gonna get scooped up. Okay, so let's break this down further. I've thought about this a ton. The reason I've thought about this a ton is I I'm I'm a media guy, right? By the way, is my mic good? Yeah, you're good.

I I'm a media guy. I love content and I've studied What goes viral and why for years. And one thing that I've always been fascinated with is I've known people who have worked at Thrillist and Thrillist uh it started as a food Well, they start as like things to do in New York, but one of their biggest things is food. And I remember in when I started dating my wife, she was from New York City and I hadn't been there since I was or the first time I've been there was when we started dating twenty six, twenty seven years old. And I went there and I would see these long like I would go to like

The areas that you see in movies where like the cute people hang out, where they all dress like You know, like they dress like Right. Yeah. Like they just drive like for me that was like Wow, I feel like everyone looks like a movie star. Everyone was cool and hit by you know, I don't I don't know, Madison Square Park or Washington Square, whatever those parks. I d I don't know. I I don't spend a lot of time there, but you know what I mean. Uh they would have the longest lines. And I'm like, what the what are all these people waiting for?

And it was like the the latest Uh thrill us craze that went viral. And so I I would walk or through Brooklyn and everything and I would see these lines and I'm like What is going on? And I would do research and I am kinda broke it down into a I like I've like studied this for a while and uh

uh not studied is the right word, but thought about it a lot. And I basically broke broke it down into the c and a into a handful of categories. And what it appears What what seems like what what happens is people have a small store. A relatively like pretty like a corner store in hit parts of Brooklyn or New York where there's Uh people who share, so like college kids mostly. And they create one or two things that

That thrillists or Buzzfeed or someone Because all those companies are located in the cool parts that I'm describing in Soho, things like that. And one of these uh buzz feed or thrills folks sees it. A whole bunch of college kids see it. And then it creates a line and it creates height.

And it it becomes like a good business that lasts for three to six months and then it kind of like goes away and maybe like it's still as a remainder, but like still is a business, but it it mostly like is a hype cycle, whatever. And I was like, what is going on? And so I broke this down into a few categories, and I want to go through these categories because I agree with you. I think this is so cool. And I've tried to break this down. So First. And these are like uh different ways to to come. For virality. Yeah, like formulas for food virality. Okay. The first one is make a side ingredient. So something that's normally a side ingredient, make it the main thing. So the best example of this is cookie dough.

There's a lot there's like this is a thing I saw in New York. Uh there was a line out a door the door for someone sold cookie dough as if it's ice cream. So it's like sprinkled cookie dough, then like ice cream flavored cookie dough. It was like cookie dough is the main thing. Another one is cheese. Like people do f uh like fondues, they have like fondue bars. Something that's uh what what else is a side ingredient that could be it? I don't know if it's a side ingredient exactly, but uh cereal does this too. There's there were these like viral things where it's like cereal bars. All you do is it's just milk and cereal and that's it. And you can come normally that's not a restaurant. It's a side like it's like literally a side dish of a side dish. And uh they made it the focus of the restaurant, and that made the restaurant notable and remarkable for people to to talk about and go to. Or an I or a a whipped cream ball like a w a whipped cream store. Just like anything that is typically an afterthought that is a topping.

Or a side to the main thing. Make that your thing. Okay. The second one is doing the uh have normal foods, but different colors. A few examples. Rainbow bagels, okay, crazy popular. They're they're hype. I mean they're still popular, but they went through uh a cycle. The second one is Rainbow Rainbow Kettlecorn. That's quite popular. When I was a kid, I remember A couple times buying green ketchup. Do you remember green ketchup? Yeah, dude. I love green ketchup. Which was just red ketchup but green, right? It was literally just the color was different. It's just the name, just a normal thing, but a different color. And then the latest trend on uh uh or this year on TikTok was cloud bread, which is basically, you know, everyone is baking at home now. It's just bread that's

Kind of blue and white and look like a cloud. Right. And by the way, your side thing main thing, I got another example of that. But you know, Cap Captain Crunch. The crunch berries were always just the extra. And then they came out with

Captain just just the berries, just the crunch berries. And it was like way more popular. Yeah, or like Lucky Charms with only the marshmallows. Yeah, exactly. So you you take the thing that's supposed to be the topping. Yeah, the topping, the second, the third string thing, make it the first string thing. Right. The same thing. But a different side. Uh different size. This is pretty common. So you like huge pizzas that you can't fit through the door, huge Sundays, they call it like the kitchen sink, everything but the kitchen sink in a kitchen sink.

Or or sushi Rito is another example. Have you seen sushi Rito? That's a chain, right? Yep. So it's just Sushi, that isn't cut. So just a long piece of sushi. Uh another one, uh I had a friend named Sol, you probably know him.

Uh and he created a Kit Kat bar that was the size of like a cake. Right. He he would make these things. And so I've actually never seen this sold, but you get the idea. Uh a Kit Gap bar that's that's like a the size of a loaf of bread. In San Francisco, they have this place, Bob's Bob's donuts or Bob's whatever. Yes. And they have this humongous donut. It's like this donut the size of, you know, two of my head. And uh and you could buy it and then you could try to eat it and then you could take pictures of it because you're eating this enormous donut. Boom, that's the whole book. It's that special. But

It I mean it becomes special. It's just a normal thing, but a different size. Okay. Uh or like in St. Louis. The whole thing is this is so silly how this works. In Saint Louis, our pizza is cut into squares. Right, right, right. So it's remember you kinda said one earlier about like uh sushi. Sushi sometimes it comes in these like boats, or if you go to a beer place and they serve it in a boot or whatever, it's like it can also be, you know, a punch bowl that's in a fish, you know, a fish bowl or whatever. Yeah. Like it could be bigger and in a You know, in a non non traditional like the kitchen sink in a non traditional container.

Yes, just same thing but different size. Okay. Or or it could be miniature, you know, just something that You know, whatever. Uh like White Castle, mini cheeseburgers. Uh okay, so the the the fourth one, combine two things that are quite different. Okay. So I've got a this is a really easy one. There's a ton of examples. The first one is the Cronut. Pretty easy. The latest trend right now on TikTok, pancake cereal. It's

I don't even know what it is. Uh. There's like recipe. I don't even know what it is, but it's I don't know. Okay. Uh

Look it up actually, while we're talking to Bra you. It's probably It's probably just I I don't know. Uh probably pancakes and cereal, okay. It no, they uh they bake it.

They call it pancake cereal. It really is just probably normal cereal made out of like the same ingredients. They just bake it at home and it looks like the shape of a pancake. Same with donut cereal. Um but there's um Uh do you know um do you remember Ramid Burger? Yeah. Okay, so there's ramen burger. There's fairy bread. Do you know what fairy bread is? No, what is that? It's basically just bread with sprinkles. Okay. So you're just taking two things that don't normally go together. And you mash them, just like a dessert burger.

Uh. Very simple. Or you can get a uh a cream cheese bell pepper sandwich. Right. And the more um more unusual it's you know, it's Doritos locos tacos, right? It's uh when KFC came out with the the fried chicken b bun or whatever, and it was like the bun is fried chicken. Um like you know, th there's The more Shocking, I would say the better in this case.

Yes, you just take two things, you smash them together. Pretty easy, relatively simple. Okay. The fourth thing or the fifth thing is you make Something that's normally a crappy food. But you make it fancy. So tater tots, mozzarella sticks.

You add a fancy shtick to them. Or you could probably go the i the opposite way of making something pretty Uh fancy and make it Not fancy, although that would might be gross. But You get the idea.

And then the final one is you Uh take um Some type of food allergy? But this one isn't actually that sexy. But you take some type of food, you just make something for food allergy. So there's Banza, which is uh chickpea pasta. Right. Um

There's uh there's uh Lou Ellen's ice cream, I think it's called in Brooklyn. It's vegan ice cream, only vegan ice cream. Right. Uh or like Oatley is like this, right? It's milk not made from cows. Boom. This is now so popular that this almost can't go viral anymore. But um maybe if you chose some category that's not not typical, but it feels like a lot of these are now Mainstream. Um At this point.

It works so well. Here's what I would do is I would open up a you I uh this was what I was thinking about doing I mean I would never I don't think I would do it, but maybe one day I w I would want to actually. It seems pretty fun. Is I would have a kitchen in New York. And I would b get it in a really high traffic high trafficked area and I would just Every three months. Try to do a launch.

Where I launch like a rainbow cheesecake or you know, I don't even know. I'm just making sh you're just making stuff up. And then I would even what I would do is I would Mix I would do a ton of stuff and then just post a picture and drive a little bit of traffic to it and see what had the the cheapest cost per click. Right. Yeah.

Just reuse the hype cycle. No embrace that the hype cycle exists and just make a kitchen that's gonna rotate every month into a new crazy concoction. And people will line up every month to go try the new thing and you'll build your brand as like Willy Wonka when he would create, you know. Now everlast everlasting gobstoppers or whatever, you know, like it creates a new. A new crazy concoction that you gotta get. It goes a step further. So do you remember Cronut?

Yeah. So Kronitz got popular in two thousand thirteen. It was invented by a guy named Dominique uh What's his last name? I don't know what his last name is, but uh a French pastry chef. He's like a a big name chef. Um but he made Cronite because he likes he was like, I just want to have fun and create something new and interesting all the time. And this one just kinda hit. He actually trademarked The name Chrona. And he is like a purist. He's like an artist. So he didn't actually want to license it to people, but he easily could have made tens of millions or more by licensing that name to someone.

And so there's a step further. So you create the food and you gotta come up with a really cute name. And you could actually get it trademark and And there's licensing deals there. So I think this is super fascinating. I think if someone invested one year of their life to do this and a hundred grand or less, they could probably get one or two hits. Right.

Um which uh may not be the right thing to do with your life, but if that's you, if you're like I'm doing it, great, great, good idea. It's definitely fun. It seems fun, but yeah. It'll teach you a lot. I think it'll teach you a lot about business and marketing to be able to to approach, you know, food this way. Um Okay, so a couple other opportunities I see here. So I mentioned I think you know, investing or private equity, I think we'll start to scoop up these brands. I think that's one opportunity. Second one is I think somebody could could build a kind of Guy Fury of Instagram food. uh character who basically just goes and tries to find

The next You know, who really does make the absolute best like oatmeal or whatever, right? Like come up with like, you know, go to every category and then just hunt. for the best one ever, and then you do the drop on Instagram for you know for that brand, for that for that shop. And maybe you you found you know the absolute best Philly cheesesteak in Philly. And then you um you know you drop that. So I think somebody could create that if they've if that's what if they're a foodie and that was their thing. Um, the other thing is a little more boring, which is like we've talked about um cold chain three PL. So basically how the heck do you ship all this stuff um and keep it where it actually tastes good when it arrives, you know, three to five days later.

uh across the country. How do you how do you make it work? And so I think that there's just a bigger a bigger and bigger need for Cold chain logistics. Um and and I think we've we've heard this a few times now, and I I feel like If somebody's working on that or somebody has one of those, I would love to talk to you just to learn because I think this business is booming and I think more and more people are going to go into it.

Okay, do you want to hear one more food thing that we could we to discuss? Do you remember it? As a kid, seeing these books, I'm pulling'em up now, called Eat This, Not That. Yeah. No, what is that?

Okay. So it was awesome. I loved it. I bought it once just'cause it was at Barnes and Noble and uh it ended up like being like pretty amazing. So Google Eat this not that. It started as one book. Uh like a almost like coffee table esque book. Right. And on the left side it says eat this and on the right side is not that. And so for example Um

It started as just like a general uh general want, but then they eventually went to like desserts. Fast food, all types of that all types of stuff like that. And An example, let's find an example one that I could say. So it would say eat this. Arby's beef cheddar classic.

Four hundred fifty calories, twenty grams of fat. Not this. Arby's Roasted Turkey Ranch. sandwich which has eight hundred calories. And so it shows two things. That are quite similar and it says eat this one instead of this one. Right.

If I want eat a salad, don't go to Arby's. It's saying like if you're at Arby's, get this one, not that one. Yeah. They have like different Denny different Denny's breakfasts or uh like iHot versus Denny's or whatever. Eat this or uh yeah, you get the idea, right? Yeah, okay, this It's Are you looking at it? Do you Google it?

Yeah, it's a it's pretty thick. I uh it's been around since probably two thousand and Uh Probably two thousand two. I mean I I think I bought this when I was pretty young. Um Let's see. There's a whole half a million followers on Instagram, which is like to I think all these old like kind of publications, like either magazines or or little brands like this.

Today they're all just Instagram accounts. I think that's the way to like reinvent these. Wow. Okay. So the eat this not cat eat. Eat this, not that. as of twenty twelve had sold eight million copies of the book. Right. And then they spun it up into a magazine and

Friggin' amazing. I'm just pulling this up. Um Here's what I would do right now, today. If you get popular on Instagram is I would do I would do the same thing just for Instagram.

As a whole eat, does not that. Uh on Instagram. Totally. And and the format is so good. It's just a split screen. So it has half the food item on the left and half the food item on the right. And then it has the nutrition facts about why why one versus the other. I think a lot of this stuff is super shareable on Instagram and you would grow very quickly. Like I can see their Instagram right now. It looks kind of shitty, like they're not doing a great job. I think you could basically steal this concept, pick a different name, and uh Grow a big Instagram account off this.

Oh yeah. I was bored I would do something like this. Yeah, it's kind of a fun topic. Uh I'm I'm reading all about it now. This is pretty amazing. I hadn't thought about this in forever. But anyway There you go. I think a c uh uh if you did that for six or s or six or twelve months, you get hundreds of thousands of followers.

On uh Instagram. Um, all right, we'll switch off food. Let's go to something else. What what do you want to talk about? Do you want to talk about money real quick, tiller money? Okay, yeah, what's this? Have okay. Very fascinating. Ha do you use what do you use to track your money?

I don't use anything to track my money. I use Excel. Okay. Everyone says that, who I've talked to. Uh not everyone, but a lot of people. Here is usually the answer I hear. I use Mint or I use personal capital or I use Right. I have Mint, yeah, as well. And w can I ask you, why don't you use Mint?

Uh, I used mint back in the day. I mean, I used mint like ten years ago, so it's just kinda like one of those things that I don't have a habit of going and looking at. And I don't like looking at uh that stuff'cause it makes me focus on like You know expenses and saving money here and there, and I just don't think that's fun. I I don't enjoy that.

So I'll I I went and looked at a bunch of subreddits about money, uh,'cause I usually use personal capital and I don't like it for a bunch of reasons right now. But When I asked Like ten different people, how they track their money, most Who I asked, maybe five or six. Use Excel, which is kind of crazy to me because

How many How many accounts do you have that you need to track? Over ten? Yeah. Yeah, so it doesn't matter if you're wealthy or not wealthy, most people Like between if they have a a wife or a husband, you have like your checking account, bank account, your four oh one K, your stock stuff.

Uh, maybe your home loan, credit card, credit card. You probably have two or three credit cards. So typically I'm I imagine the average Joe has ten plus. So it's actually a lot to track, regardless of if you have money. And everyone I've noticed Or not everyone, a lot of people I've noticed use Excel. So I did some research. There's this thing, and it's not like I've discovered this. I think it's pretty popular already, called tiller money. And all it is It the landing page is beautiful, but I'm just fascinated by this business. All it is is a if you go to Google Sheets and you click tools and then add on. Okay, you'll see the ability to add plugins to Google Sheets.

Okay. Tiller money. All it is is a plug in for Google Sheets that costs One hundred to I think it's a hundred dollars a year.

And all it does is it automatically imports your bank accounts and any other account into Google Sheets and templates that they have, or you can just make your own template. But I've never seen someone build such a sick and awesome business off of a Google sheet add on. It's it's incredibly fascinating. Yeah, this is good. I like this. Um I think this is

This of all the like kind of money manager things, this appeals to me more because it feels like I'm managing my own money. And uh in reality, you know, the thing I'm always worried about is data. Like I don't want my data on all these different services. Like I'm not gonna try your new finance app because like I just don't want to link my bank account to all this new stuff. But uh If they could do this where this was like self hosted in some way, like it's just a template, um, that'd be great. It doesn't look like that's the case, but It is sweet. I like it. So if you go to Google Sheets right now.

And you click add ons on the top right once you're in a sheet. you can see add ons. And I actually just realized I use a few add ons. The other add on I I use is called Supermetrics. Um, which is uh It pulls in data from SQL and stuff like that. I'm

I bet you they do close to eight figures a year in in revenue. But Uh we've talked about plugins for WordPress. We've talked about plugins for Uh chrome. Google Sheets plugins is another thing that is super, super fascinating to me, and I completely overlooked it.

Uh It's so neat. And so I don't know what else to say other than it's cool. So you you had a thing that I thought was kind of interesting that was about open salaries. What what is this? And do you want to talk about this or or where do you want to go?

I'll let you lead a little bit, but I'll uh I it it's so funny. I'll I'll put stuff in here throughout like two weeks and You're three days goes past and I'm like, Wait, did I write that or did you write that? Okay, all right, so we'll do it quick. We'll do it quick. So so you put this thing on here. I got kinda intrigued. So you you open salaries, what is it? Uh it's the idea that like today it's kinda crazy that We don't know what other people make, and not in a gossip kind of way, but it's really, you know, the company knows what everybody makes, but The employees don't know. And that actually puts the employees at a pretty big disadvantage. You don't know when you're underpaid. You don't know if there's any like systemic bias and let's say women or minorities are not getting paid as much as

you know, tall white males or whatever. And so um It's kind of weird that this is this like taboo thing. Nobody talks about it. You're not allowed to talk about it. It's seen as kind of a faux pas, but it would actually be to the benefit. Of Any employee to know to have transparency at as to what people are getting paid. And it can be anonymized, but Being able to see what what other people at your

role at your company are are getting paid. And so You would put this thing on here that Colorado was gonna say that hey, from twenty twenty one, employers have to disclose pay rates and ranges for job posts. um of any job that could be working in Colorado, including remote jobs, which I thought was kind of interesting. And then we have

Companies like Buffer. Uh and Whole Foods have been doing this for a while, buffer kind of try to like make a name for themselves by being like the open transparent company. We'll share everybody's salary. And like literally you can Like here's a link. You can go and see everybody at Buffers Salad. Whole foods you can see people's salary.

Uh you put that in there or Brady did. I don't know. I haven't seen that one. But I wanted to share a couple of interesting things that I I found when I was digging into this. So first, uh check out this th this spreadsheet of buffer salaries. I just put it in the chat. Um so you can click this, anybody can Google this and find it. Um, you can go and you can see that Joel, the CEO, is making$280,000 this year. And you can go see what this the what his EA is making. She's making eighty-nine thousand dollars. And you can just go down the whole company roster, everybody's salary is public, um, which I think is like Pretty insane. Um, but interesting. Then you have things like the Google kind of secret spreadsheets. I don't know if you've seen these, but at big companies, people are starting to like just make an anonymous spreadsheet and say,

Hey, put in your salary and your level and your your location here. Um, so we can all like have more transparency. You don't have to put your name next to it. And um they circulate it with inside companies. So Microsoft had one, Google had one, Facebook had one. And the Google one The the the so I forgot who it was. S some woman created this.

And within two days, 10,000 people had put in their information, and now there's over twenty thousand people. in the open Google database and you can go. Can you link can you link to that? Yeah, it's right here. Um I have it at the bottom. Um So so so these are kind of cool and Um

And it's interesting how viral these go. So then I was looking at Levels. It's a place to go see, like you can go and say, All right, I'm interviewing at Amazon and Facebook and they They labeled me an L5 software engineer located in Bay Area. Like, what am I gonna get paid? How much is

Or I got an offer. I don't know if that was a fair offer or a low offer, did they lowball me? And so you can go on levels at FYI and it's the same thing. crowdsourced information about what you make at these different companies. And um levels, if you look at their traffic, they're getting about a million and a half. Visits a month. And like they're this thing has really elevated from a side project to something like pretty legit. So they have like job boards now.

If you click at the top, they actually have the thing we were talking about last episode, a negotiator as a service. So if you click the top. It's a sick little website where they get they have a little calculator that says, you know, what company, where are you located, how many years of experience, here's what you're getting, here's what we think you should get paid based on the levels database, which is now in the, I don't know. tens of thousands of entries or something like that. And then they basically say, Hey, if you pay us five hundred bucks, we'll negotiate your offer for you. We have former recruiters from these companies that freelance with us, and basically you book a time, you talk about your offer and how you're feeling about it and what you what you really want out of this.

And then we'll negotiate for you. And they show all these like success stories of like this person at Facebook got 20,000 more than their offer. This person got 40,000 more. This person got 10,000 more. And so they're taking and and they just take a flat fee of like whatever, five hundred, six hundred bucks, I think. And um so I think there's some interesting stuff going on in this like transparency around what people are making. And it really goes in like

fits in my values where um I think it's crazy that people don't talk about money more. I think it would help everybody if we talked about money more. And it would be less Like kind of taboo and less uh Less like a big d deep dark secret if people were more open about it. And I think that's where the world is going. Can I give you a counterpoint for that? Go for it.

I thought that that was interesting. And I'm not saying how I feel'cause I'm still thinking about it, but Leo. I forget his name, Leo, but he did an it From Buffer, the co founder of Buffer who no longer works there.

So buffer started with this whole transparency thing. Um That was like their whole shit. And it worked. About everything. Users, revenue, salaries, everything. It was it was a shtick that got popular amongst bloggers. In particular, there's this guy named um Pat. And he has this blog called Smart Passive Income dot com. I used to read it when I was

fifteen or sixteen or eighteen, something like that in high school. And he would make money by creating books and doing a a bunch of other side businesses, and he would reveal his income every single month. And Other bloggers copied him and it was a really cool thing. John Lee Doomis did it. All these like really cool people did it. Buffer did it and that was their stick to get popular and it worked because

The Buffler Buffer's product isn't Really special. It there's so many P uh different versions and they did it. Uh Leo. Uh Leo said in an interview

Someone was like, Do you this whole transparency thing, it's pretty cool. Like you guys got traffic and everything. Do you think that it would work? And I believe I I don't want to quote'em because I this I I saw this a year and a half ago, two years ago, but something like This works. Now and it's great for us, but I have a feeling when we get to seventy five, eighty, ninety, a hundred people, it's not gonna work anymore and it's actually gonna hurt us big time. And I forget exactly why.

But I believe Steve What's that? Man, I'm getting all my names screwed up. Someone else at Apple, like a like a head honchant Apple said something that's s similar. He's like no, the transparency thing it actually can hurt It hurts the company after a while and we tried it. And so I actually think that maybe this is good for startups, but it kind of sucks after a long time because look.

Let's say you own a small business. That does twenty million in sales. And you're the business owner and you wanna pay yourself three million dollars a year. That's pretty shitty then if you're a fifty thousand dollar receptionist or something, but that's like your right to do that. Why would you want to share that with everyone?

Yeah, as the employer. It's not great, right? Buffer used it to get a bunch of traffic because there's And it was an effective growth tactic for them. Hey, if we're open about this, we'll get a bunch of people asking what the heck is buffer, and some of them will use it. But uh as the employer, it's not great. As the employee, it's great. And so that's it depends kind of which side of the coin are you on. Also, it depends how far you go. The buffer thing where they write everybody's name and how much they make.

Bit much. But the Google thing where it's like, hey, look, there's thousands of employees here. I need to know that within my level within my kind of area. Am I underpaid, overpaid, or you know, somewhere in between? Um It gives people peace of mind and uh and it gives them, you know, an opportunity to get more sort of fairness or equity in in terms of being able to negotiate with information, information that the other side has that you don't have. So I like it from the

employee perspective. And I think it's but I wouldn't go the buffer way of writing everybody's names down. Now at a small company Cool, that kinda happens, but I thought that was I think it's kinda cool. I think there's definitely interest around this. So you know, a couple of little ideas of of things that people could do. So levels F dot FYI.

is cool, is working. Um, I'm surprised that somebody like, you know, our buddy Andrew Wilkinson doesn't go buy a company like this. Um it's it's kind of an N of one company. It's it has like a unique data advantage. It's in it does job boards, which he loves as a business model on top of all this traffic that they're getting. And it's kinda like a side project that's probably like you know, reach the max of that of of which, you know, the two guys behind it really can take it.

Um The other ways that you could do this, I think you could do this in any vertical. So I don't know, is there levels of FYI in the like hedge fund world or consulting or banking like If you're in those worlds and there isn't a tool like this, you should just make the levels of FYI database for your industry. Nursing, I don't know, whatever the industry is, that this product can work across those. Um, and so I think that's cool. Even within levels, somebody could go further and be like, all right, I'm gonna take product managers or data science.

And really own that. If they were somebody who has a big audience for that. Like if If that guy Lenny, um Lenny, who's got a big blog and and kinda audience around product managers. He could do this for product management and do it better than levels can generally. So I think the levels concept could be exported and done in different Areas.

When we first launched, like maybe the first couple of months of launching, so we didn't have an audience. So I'm and I'm saying this so anyone could do it. We we didn't have an audience. Yeah, I wrote a post called How much money do founders make? Because I was trying to figure out like do I pay myself, do I not pay myself. Right. Uh whatever. And if you Google how much money do founders have in their bank account, the hustle, you might see it. And all I did was I took a Google form and I posted it on Hacker News.

And it went to number one. Uh they eventually took it down because I think that goes against their terms of service, like I have a survey, but I got like three or four hundred re replies and I asked people how much money they have in their checking account, how much they have in their bank account, how much they pay themselves, how much do they have in illiquid assets. I got hundred and then what their job title is and where they live. And I got hundreds of replies and I published All the data. Um And I took out any information where you could like learn about someone and people loved sharing anonymous information and they loved reading anonymous information. Like they loved like

It was amazing. And so I agree. I think it's pretty sick. And it was way Oh, there it is. I'm ready you posted it. Uh it was way easier to get people's I'm not like literally getting their information because it's all anonymous, but people were so forthcoming with us. It was pretty cool and pretty interesting. Yeah, I want somebody to do this with VCs. Um I think most people don't know how much VCs make. and all the different people in the food chain, like the GPs versus like a partner versus like an associate or whatever.

And um I feel like somebody should like kind of crack that egg open and be like, look, here's the here's the numbers, here's what it is, and anonymize it. Um, but give people some transparency into what what's really going on. Let's talk about this for a second. So there's two companies that come to mind that are interesting to me that when we're talking about this. The first is Pitchbook. You know what Pitchbook is? Yes. But do you pay for it? It's so expensive. No. My sister in law works there though, and so every once in a while she'll she'll be kind enough and let me ask her a question of like to look up.

Uh No, I don't pay for it'cause it's really expensive. It's like twenty five thousand dollars, I think. Yep. Um, so Pitchbook, it's kinda like Crunch Base, but souped up. And so you pay twenty five grand and you get access to like a lot of information uh uh about privately held companies. Uh the second well, let's just talk about Pitchbook. The reason it's interesting is they have a team of outsourced folks. I don't know which country they're in, but I think the Philippines. And they literally have like two hundred people. And they and and by the way, Pitchbook is a publicly traded company. You can go and read about them. They're owned by Morningstar. So you can actually go and see their operations and how they work.

how they work. They're growing like crazy. They're have north of a hundred million in revenue. Um you can they have a team of folks And what they do is call VCs and they literally just ask them information or they call companies and they just ask them information. And for some reason, I don't know how or why, people give them information. And that's one of the ways, one of many of ways that they get Data. The second thing is this uh

business called is it called the Org? Have you is that what it's called? Yes. Okay, the org. Very interesting because In a nutshell. The tagline is the org. Transparency starts here.

Build a better organization with a public org chart. Celebrate your colleagues. Basic Kind of crap. Let's not let's not read their marketing. Yeah. Really what it is. I mean, I'm sure they do all that nonsense, but it's a fun it's an org chart. It's a public org chart. Yeah, you pay money and you get access to people's org chart, and this helps you know who to email to sell shit to. Right, exactly. Uh and that's cool. Like there's no I don't know why they don't just say that, but they've raised a a lot of money, like I think tens of millions of dollars. It's probably gonna be a monster business. And so

I would do two things with the salary thing. One, I would actually hire People in the Philippines or whatever. And just We hit it hard. And just go out and and hit it hard.

And I would trust that a lot of people would be actually pretty pretty transparent. Uh and the second thing is I would paywall it kind of like the org, and I would sell this to every HR. Uh uh department in the country. So I have a friend that is doing this with Shopify sales. I showed him A way to

roughly estimate how much a not roughly it's pretty good estimate how much uh how many how much sales a Shopify store is doing. And um What is that what can I get? You don't have to say if it's true. Is it because you order from them and you see what the order number is? That's one of the ways, yeah. And um that's was one of the best ways. And so I showed him, I said, look, this is this is useful. Um people want to know what their competitors are doing and the second way is you look at the traffic.

Uh yeah, you st you still need a couple of other pieces of information. For example, you need to know how how much the average order is and things like that, but Um, but roughly that that will tell you uh you know how they're doing. And so Now he emails me a report every month. That shows me Yeah, these four companies that I decided uh hey, I want to track these four companies and email me report. This is their sales, this is their social media following, this is how many ads that they're running on Facebook, and um one other thing, which is uh just like the month over month changes uh between those.

And I think it's a great idea. So I he was kind of looking for something to do. I told him, look, I think this is a good pivot. Uh I don't know exactly how well he's doing. I should really shout out the name, but I kinda don't remember. Let me look it up while we're doing this, but how'd you find this person? He was in my mastermind. Um Uh Let me see what his thing is called. It's called

Okay, dramatic pause. Let me figure it out. And you came up with the uh With the Yeah, I told him I was like, look, uh he because he was like, dude, I'm good with data. I'm interested in this kind of stuff. Um But I also like, you know, I also have a team of the Philippines.

And um You know, so so I I really like this. Okay, so here it is. So the the website is Shop salesdata.com And uh I hope he gets a bunch more customers from this.

I hope he's still doing it. Um he still re emails me my report. I hope he's taking more customers right now. But it's monthly report of Shopify competitor data in your inbox every month for a hundred dollars or something like that. Yeah, this is great. I mean you could do the same with um Facebook ad accounts just like Because th Facebook shows everyone their ads. You can say, you know, email me my competitors' ads every time they launch a new one. Exactly. And so I think that there's like there's some good stuff in this kind of like data data based businesses where you're just collecting data from public sources, you're cleaning it up, you're structuring it, and then you're offering it as a service to a bunch of other um companies.

Okay. You wanna do a mini one? Do we have a mini one? Uh yeah, let's do a quick one. What else we got? Um Do you have anything good of like your first week working at a real job? It is was my first week.

And now it's in my second week and I'm sitting on a beach in Hawaii. Uh so uh what can it having a job rocks. Yeah. I should have done this years ago. I love having a job. Ha ha ha.

Um it's cool, man. HubSpot announced that they had a billion dollars in revenue. Like uh run right. It's pretty amazing. And so there's like two things. This is like my first like real job, uh or like a corporate job. Um I mean That's not exactly true. Like I would have friends

Like my friend Neville, who It's like a work from self. He would be like, Hey, do you want to go hang out on a Wednesday like at noon? I'm like, No, dude, I have a job. Like so I treat like running my company, it was one hundred percent more normal. It's more than a job. It's two jobs. Yeah. It's more than it it's I would call it a nine to five. I'm like, Yeah, like I'm sure it was in fact way more than nine to five, but I was like I'm like pretty straight, like

I get to work at nine. I do my thing, like anyway, I try I so I I tease about this, but yeah, first like corporate job. Um It's Th the it's gonna ha slow down, but like the amount of meetings is pretty crazy. And I told him I'm not doing meetings like this anymore.

Um Because I'm gonna make stuff. But I don't know how It's still crazy to me how people find time to get the actual work done. Yeah.

I uh I realized how that works, which is just that managers don't get work done. Managers just go to meetings. And then I Cs or individual contributors as they're known. are the ones who actually like sit down and do work because they don't have, you know, back to back meetings throughout the day. But I think even uh your work is basically just communicating between people.

But my seven days of working has shown me that even I Cs have a lot of meeting. Yeah, like they should they shouldn't they should not have that many. They should have like whatever one or two or three a day, but Uh they should have like, you know. Somewhere between three and five hours of uninterrupted time.

Yeah, like so is that a like I just don't understand how people so like I I'm telling everyone at Huspot, I'm like you don't no one talk to me for these hours. I have I like Like and I'm like this is I uh and I and I say I say it nicely, of course, but I say Uh, I'm doing this for the better of everyone. Like I'm gonna make good stuff. So like let me go up my hole and you just Just don't bother me. All right, what's been the worst part so far? The meetings. Let's be honest. Okay. W what what meet were the meetings boring or just the amount of'em?

The amount and also like I didn't know what workday is and all this stuff. There's just so much paperwork that I've always had people do for me that I'm having to do. Um, what's the worst part? Uh you know, like everyone's like, Is having a boss weird because I've never had a boss before? No. I think it's gonna suck after a while, of course. Like having a boss might suck. I'm so pumped I don't have to like I get to just Shovel shit onto Kieran's plate that I don't like. I'm like hey uh

You know, shall we hire this person? Like I don't have to make that decision. Uh I love that. I love that. I think it's awesome. Um So having a boss has not sucked so far.

Um I don't know. What do you think would be the worst parts? And I'll tell you if they are. What what was your worst part? There's certain um meeting types that you have to do that I just found like completely soul sucking. One of them was called a calibration meeting. It's basically like Uh uh even just describing it, you know, gives me some pain here. Basically it's like

You're trying to promote people, but how do you know like If every manager has their own criteria for promotions. How do you make sure you're promoting people equally and fairly throughout the company. So you have to do these things called calibration meetings where you sit down and you basically say, this person's up for promotion or they get they're getting promoted because of this, this, and this. And then the other person says, Well, you know, I I felt like they weren't uh they weren't great at this, or they didn't do a great job with that project, and you have to kinda defend them. For me, it was boring on two levels. One

First and foremost, I didn't know anyone else in the company. So I just sat there for three hours, not being able to say anything because I didn't interact with any of these people. I just got here. I just got bought. I don't know these people. I can't give any input, nor do I have any opinion on if the if the feedback is valid or not. And the second thing I was just like wow Even after all this talk, like I still just feel like the person who's the most uh vocal and best salesperson. um is getting their way. And the person who's not that great at talking is not getting their way. So like we could have just skipped all this. Like it would have almost been better had we not gone into this room and said, you sell your person and you sell your person and you debate this person. It's like the better debater wins in big companies. And I think that that's like really crazy.

Well the thing we do at our company all the time, which is like If it we'll say s I'll like if a schedule meeting schedule for thirty minutes and And like in the meeting I'm like okay, I said what I had to say. I don't need to be here anymore, I'm leaving. Or like it's very it wasn't considered rude to be like, Hey, uh you need to leave now, you're done. Uh it was like

kind of a helpful thing and I'm still trying to figure out how to politely do that here. I'm like Do you guys need me here? Can I can I leave? Right. Or I'll just say I'm out. Yeah, I I I've said what I need said, I've heard what I need heard. You guys can talk. Yeah.

I say on Zoom or whatever, you just sort of like you hold up the you wave and you click exit. The second thing is HubSpot is doing really well. Um and Just the software business. And this sounds like

Just like like obvious stuff from anyone who's in software, but I've never been at a company like this. Man, if you figure out how to get a if you figure out how to reduce your churn to to very little or or even positive. So for every dollar someone spends it's above one dollar the next year. Um And you pick a big enough market.

It's just magical. Like Just now I understand why people are saying, like, oh, you know, why is this company values so high highly? It's like, well, because sticky revenue, software revenue, so something like I don't know if HubSpot would be considered this, but something for sure where you're building an entire business off of the when you know that the switching costs are quite high. Um it's pretty amazing. Like

Software business like just start a software company. It's so much better than everything else. Like it's really hard and it's slog early on, but if it really truly if you can get your churn to be right and you pick a big enough market, it's just um if in and you have a and you can figure out how to have a good marking machine, which all this is like Oh yeah, if only you could do that. Like it's I know, but like You you can kind of figure it out, actually, I think given enough if you if you give yourself like five years to figure it out, I think you can. Um Well I think

All the things you're saying are true and they really just point to this one lesson I've learned the hard way over and over again, which is It's much more important to pick what game you play. than to try to be the best player at a game. Um Because if you pick the wrong game, even becoming the best player still ends up in a small outcome or a really painful path. But if you pick the right game to play.

And you whether you become the best or not even the best, but you know, just kind of the top twenty five percent. Um It's just so much better to win that way. And In this case, like we've d if we've we talk about and we've done different types of businesses, right? We've done Like I did social network. I try to make a new social network. It's the wrong fucking game to play, dude. It's so hard. Um, so hard. So it's a low chance of probability of success. You did a media business.

Also hard. Hard you know. Higher odds of success, but like lower size of the prize if you if you get it right. Um Ecom. You know, just a fucking pain in the ass, just tons of headaches all the time with your supply chain and logistics, because you got real world products and you have to like ship them all around the world and you're gonna have customers who have returns and like things that just like are not as easy as software.

And so like We've and you know We talk about all these different you know doing a paid newsletter or whatever, like there's all these different models. And for my money, by far, the best one is to build a software business.

Because a software business can scale. A software business can like be improved over time and you know. Unlike e commerce when you w when you make a crappy e commerce product. Uh, you know, you go make a better version the next, you know, it takes you six months to make it and then you make it and all those old customers who got the bad product still think you suck. Whereas with software, you push the update and all of a sudden every single customer has the new best thing. You know, there's all these just tiny advantages and um Software's the way to go.

But We I wanna say something that David Siegel so we had David Siegel on last time, he had a uh billion dollar or close to billion dollar T business and I go, David, why are you doing brick and mortar stores when you could be doing software and he said the right thing. What did he say?

It was like oh it's fun. I love selling product. And I was like That's the best answer. That is a wonderful answer. Will I ever be able to start an enterprise software company? I think that if I was going to, it would either have to be very soon or even a few years ago. Like you have you I would you have to do it, I think when you're like really like where money's the one number one thing. It's like I gotta get paid, I gotta get my hit. And um in that case, yeah, I would do anything to make money.

But Where I am now and where I think where a lot of people are is you have really it's f it's I agree with everything you said, but you have to add the And also not like passionate about, but what what what excites you enough to That you're willing to get good at it over a decade. Right, we'll fletch a boat. All right. So let's take you okay. Uh you're happy HubSpot. Everything's great. You're gonna be there for for twenty years. We know that.

Alternate reality. You know, we all know you're happy at HubSpot. You've been there for two decades. It's great. Uh it's you know, sunshine and rainbows. Let's say alternate reality, they fire you tomorrow. you're gonna go build something else. Um

Where do you think you would go, Bill? Would you do what your would you go media? Would you go something? Totally different. Would you go software? What do you think you would do? Everyone's gonna laugh at me because I say trucking, but I would do somet maybe something. Something in the agricultural. Space. Yeah.

I think Ag Tech is it is uh Ag Tech is interesting. Uh I think that's the most interesting. I had a great call with this guy who I'm gonna um we gotta have this guy on the podcast. His name's uh um Uh just his son's name is Jordan. I can't remember uh Rob, uh Van Trump. It's called the Van Trump report. So Van Trump report, it's this guy who has a newsletter that does twenty million dollars a year in subscription revenue. He's the only writer.

And he was telling me all about Ag Tech. Do you know what Ag Tech stands for? Yeah, agricultural tech. And he was just saying all types of like what's going on. And I think working with like middle America people. who whether they're rich or not, they're more humble and they create things that actually impact the world like Get food to you.

I would do something in that space or I would start another media company. But okay, let's say you go into AgTech. All right. And you're you're probably gonna be open and whatever, you know, you'll think of it then, but Knowing what you know now.

Would you do media in agriculture? Would you do uh, you know, something with actual farms and and logistics? Would you do technology, hard, you know, trucking, the actual self-driving trucks? Would you do uh a job thing? Would you what what would you What model would you be wanting to do in that space? Well, okay, so I don't like this question because it could it'll change every single day you ask me, but as of right now, I would start a blog with a in the ad tech space.

And then eventually I would turn it into a database kinda I like this This company the org. Uh I think I could create something. Like the a a database that's better. Um

And I yeah, that's what I would do. Okay, so nice. I think that's what I would do as of right now. That that fascinates me. Or I would create um Do you know what Tiger Twenty One is? Isn't that like a like a kind of a club conference or club or mastermind thing or something like that?

And it costs thirty grand a year. It's and they have like a thousand people who are subscribed. And uh my friend joined and I looked at the backend and it was horrible and I was like, Oh, I'm just gonna clone that. And what do they do with the with the members? Is it events or is it uh It's like Uh both but like they create like um

Like little like safe communities where like you meet in groups of ten and you kinda show off your portfolio and people criticize you. And like try to def make you defend your position so you get better. Oh. But it's it got bought by private equity, so it makes a lot of money. All right, that's cool.

Yeah. I feel like I can rule the world, I know I can be what I want to I'm putting my all in it like my day's off On the roadless travel never looking back

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