How to master your emotions, w/Sam Harris

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I had At that point. virtually no Wilderness experience, right? So I was really Just totally green and

Not in good shape. And I bought a new pair of boots that I had never hiked in. I mean they admonish you to break in your boots, so I got Just prisoner of war level blisters. the first days hiking, right? It was just it was awful and then the trip just unraveled from there.

That's Sam Harris. describing an outward bound trip he took at the age of sixteen. Those blisters on his feet would heal. But there was another trauma from that excursion that left a more lasting impression on him. One of their signature maneuvers on these trips was to put people on what they call the solo.

Which was three days of solitude. where you were just camped out, in my case by a lake very high up, maybe a r around eleven thousand feet or so. And told to do more or less nothing other than write in your journal. You were given no tools by which to distract yourself, that we you didn't have any books. And you fasted, right? So it was three days of just drinking water.

Which also was something that I think I had never done before. So My mind just became... Totally unhinged. I wouldn't say I went mad, but I was Mad with unhappiness.

With longing to be back. to my life in the world, right? The degree to which I was missing family and friends An ordinary distraction. It was a revelation to me how Unhappy I was

Merely being beplaced in my own company. Without any. other outlet. And I was in objectively one of the most beautiful spots on earth. This was just a gorgeous Alpine Lake with more stars than I'd ever seen in my

Life overhead and I did not discover in myself the resources of a contemplative or A naturalist or a budding scientist or anything other than a miserably Lonely. And distracted.

Person. But when Sam finally came down off that mountainside and rejoined his fellow outward bounders, he found the rest of them Had had a very different experience. I was seeing people who had been made

apparently radiantly happy. by the experience, right? Like this was the most important thing that they'd ever done. They were so Effusive. with just what a transformation it had been and Up until that point, I had never it never occurred to me.

That there was any other way to be in the world. uh much less a way that could be systematically investigated or trained. I mean the the notion of living an examined life or following any kind of contemplative path. That was a meme that had never gotten into my brain at that point. And if you'd asked me what I thought about meditation or spiritual life or anything, I think I just would have had an empty file. there. So I had no prior associations with any of these concepts. And I was seeing people who

who had not found their own company oppressive in any way. To to the contrary. And so that Planted a seed for me. where I realise okay there's something I really don't understand about the possibilities of human well being here.

That seed grew over the years, and Sam became a renowned voice of reason and wisdom on the power of mindfulness and meditation. But if you're a founder, then Sam's wilderness experience might resonate in a different way, because the old adage of leadership is still brutally true. It's lonely at the top. The ever-present danger for you as an entrepreneur is becoming lost on a wild mountainside. of your own making.

It's a wilderness that can easily engulf you and make you start second guessing not only your decisions, but the very reason you set out on the journey. That's why I believe Managing your emotions is as critical as managing your business. You need to cultivate the ability. To think?

And act with clarity. You gotta have incredible talent at every position. Huge push. There are fires burning when you're going out. Can you believe it? Such an idiot. And then you go back to this is totally gonna be amazing. There are so many easy ways. I have no idea what to do. Sorry, we made a mistake. But you have to time it right. We're gonna add a free bedroom apartment. Not ball ten years later and be like, well that's just how you do it. We haven't made it just how you do it.

This is masters of scale. I'm Reed Hoffman. Co-founder of LinkedIn. Partner Greylock.

And your host. And I believe that managing your emotions is as critical as managing your business. You need to cultivate the ability to think. And act with clarity. I want you to think for a moment about carpentry.

I'm no wordworking expert, but I do know when you're making something. from the lowliest bird box to the most ornate armoire. you need to use the right tool for the job at hand. Sure, you could smooth the edges off your hardwood table with a scrap of sandpaper. But it will take you days.

Far better to use an electric sander. the job will take a fraction of the time and the finish will be more consistent. And you could secure the handcrafted dovetail joints of the cabinet you just built with an anvil. But for a less destructive approach, a standard wood clamp is probably a better bet. The world of leadership is full of tool metaphors.

And we often talk about how important it is to have a variety of them in your metaphorical toolbox. But we seldom talk about the actual toolbox itself. The container that these tools are in. I'm talking, of course, about your mind. Now we often speak of the mind with reverence.

Its mysterious capacity to learn, its awe inspiring ability to innovate. But Sam Harris. has a different view. Your mind. Is the most rambling.

Chaotic. Needling. Insulting. Insufferable person. You will ever meet.

It's like having some maniac. Walk through the front door of your house. And follow you from room to room. And refuse to stop talking. And this happens

Every day of your life. This description of the mind struck me as Very funny. And Very true.

It leads to a profound lesson. For any other business tools to work, you have to improve the toolbox. That is your mind. I wanted to talk to Sam Harris about this because his podcast Making sense.

His app. Waking up. And his many books have drawn a devoted audience among entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley and beyond. As an author Neuroscientist.

And philosopher. Sam's known for his exceptionally rational. Often hilarious. and sometimes controversial approach to life's big questions. I should add that Sam is also known for his views as an atheist, but those don't play any part in today's episode.

Or laser focused on what Sam's learned about how you can manage your own emotions and master your own runaway thoughts. Real relief. comes when we recognize Thoughts. for what they are.

Mere appearances. In consciousness. Images. Bits of language. The fact that a thought has arisen

Does not give it a necessary claim. Upon your life. It need not have any implications. Psychological or otherwise. Of course, you'll continue to think.

And to be moved to act. By thoughts. But meditation gives you a choice. Do you really want to follow this next thought? Wherever it leads.

Every founder engages in a battle with her own thoughts and emotions. From the outside, it can be hard to grasp. Just how challenging and lonely. The entrepreneurial journey is. You're tested at every turn.

The true challenge for founders. isn't winning the strategic game, it's winning the mental game. So this episode is designed as a masterclass in mastering your emotions. It's the first of several master classes we'll release over the course of this year. Each with a different approach.

will be different than usual. Instead of following Sam through the arc of his career, will lead you through the arc of his ideas around meditation as the tool for mastery. You can think of each step as a waypoint on your metaphorical journey up the mountainside.

will draw from my interview with Sam as well as excerpts from his Waking Up app. At the start of our journey, I wanted to ask Sam about how he describes the activity of meditation. The word meditation can mean Several different things. And in one Framing

It does mean calming the mind. It means growing more concentrated on a single object, whether that's a mantra or the breath Or any arbitrary object, in fact. And

In some traditions that's considered A profound practice that is Really. The only thing worth doing. But in other traditions it's

recognize that that kind of concentration is just a tool for having insights into the nature of mind. Yeah. ultimately don't have anything to do with quiet in the mind. It's not to say that the mind doesn't become quiet when you practice in this way. Ever but

Ultimately it's about recognizing the nature of thoughts themselves, not having a mind without Thought. So the goal of meditation in my view is you know, if you can call it a goal, it's not quite a goal.

is to recognize That which is intrinsically present in even ordinary waking consciousness that is a more durable basis for well being and psychological freedom.

As an entrepreneur. Your success is directly linked to your ability to tune out the noise. and focus. Not just when external fires burn. But also when internal worri blaze.

Once you have the ability to take a more detached view of your thoughts, you'll also be able to see them more clearly. And therefore act more swiftly. A metaphor. might help you picture how this works. Imagine you work in a foundry full of molten metal.

It's blazingly hot. You're constantly surrounded by a cacafony of noise, and your movements are limited by your protective gear. It's disorienting and stifling. Now, imagine your job is to move through the foundry, quickly reading off precision gauges. Lives depend on you getting your readings right every time.

Imagine how much harder this would be if your protective goggles were constantly fogged up. Meditation is the equivalent of of anti-fog goggles. It's not going to improve the situation around you by making the foundry quieter or your protective suit. less restrictive.

but it will bring you clarity. and this will help you make clear gut checks. And faster decisions. And with that. We'll begin our journey with Sam at Waypoint Number One.

Why meditation is worth your time. Many people who were at first skeptical about the benefits of meditation find their skepticism relieved when they hear that meditation changes the brain. But the truth is Virtually anything you do.

Changes your brain. The fact that you had breakfast This morning. And that you can remember it. Changed your brain.

And of course, learning any complex skill requires that your brain physical its structure. That is what learning is. at the level of the brain. As an entrepreneur.

You have a bias for action. And you're a pragmatist. So maybe you're among the skeptics. Sam speaks of. Or more likely.

You haven't dismissed meditation, you've just filtered it out for now as you focus on more pressing concerns. But when time is your most valuable commodity Any method. that can increase your efficiency should be investigated. Especially when it could have a multiplier effect.

Meditation is one such method. Because time lost chasing or identifying with negative or spurious thoughts that appear in our minds is time squandered. The quality of your mind determines the quality of your life. Happiness and suffering, no matter how extreme

or mental events. The mind depends upon the body, of course. and the body upon the world. But everything good or bad that happens in your life Must appear in consciousness to matter.

And that brings us to way point number two. Recognize what's in your control. When it comes to your control, there will always be more factors outside of it than within.

Actions by your competitors. movements in the market. Stymied supply chains. Spooling red tape. Global pandemics.

Or even something as basic as a burst water main. can all throw you off track. Dealing with these never-ending challenges is tough, especially when the buck stops with you as the leader of your team. But it can be made far tougher if you are also struggling with stress. Disappointment, embarrassment, and self doubt.

Rather than trying to control What is by nature out of your control, you can look more closely at what you're doing with your own mind and cease to respond to sabotaging thoughts that hurt your ability to lead effectively and then impact valuable relationships with your team. Rather than trying to change the world in each moment. There is another move open to you. You can look more closely.

At what you're doing with your own mind. and actually cease to respond to life. In ways that produce needl suffering for yourself and those around you. When we're lost in thought. There are certain things we tend not to notice about the nature of our minds.

For instance. Every thought or feeling you've ever had. Good or bad. has arisen and then passed away. The anger you felt yesterday?

Or a year ago. Isn't here anymore. And if it arises in the next moment. Based on your thinking about the past. It will once again pass away when you are no longer thinking about it.

This is a profoundly important truth about the mind. And it can be absolutely liberating to understand it deeply. There's a wonderful parallel here with a constant nimble fire extinguishing you need to excel at as an entrepreneur. When a new problem rears its head and the clutch of crisis you're dealing with, you can't waste time bemoaning your fortune. As an entrepreneur, you will rapidly take stock of the situation and reassess what needs to be done.

Which fires to put out? Which to let burn, and which are nothing more than distractions. You know from experience that the problems before you now need your attention. but at the same time that they are just fleeting occurrences. This time next week.

There will likely be a whole host of new problems. Sam sums this up well. In some basic sense. Meditation is the act of doing less. than you normally do.

is the act of being less distracted. In the midst. Of everything. That is already happening. On its own.

And once one is less distracted. One finally has a tool. With which to notice. Truths about one's mind. That otherwise would never be discovered.

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Building. Creative planning where wealth works together. Lear more at creative plating dot com slash masters of scale. Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show because every Friday we release a second Rapid Response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely for From Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode.

I hope to see you there. Humans will never be more intelligent than AI. There's gonna be two types of companies. Those were great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future? That is human centered. I'm Rana El Chaoyubi.

And on my podcast Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone. Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future. And we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Welcome back. Before the break, we got a grounding in how Sam Harris thinks of meditation, and we explored why it can be of deep value to you as an entrepreneur.

And that brings us to way point number three. An antidote suffering and stress. Oh Dress.

is one of the top associations with entrepreneurship. But what many people frequently don't realize The real challenge is managing stress over time. You can manage the stress of the first few years. You're like a boxer, fresh into the ring.

Operating on adrenaline for the first few rounds. But by round four, the fatigue is starting to kick in. You've probably taken a few jabs. Maybe even a body blow. And this is where you have to start thinking about digging deep.

Mm. Where the fight is as much mental. as it is physical. as much with yourself as your opponent. Cultivating clarity can help you develop the self-possession so you're not thrown off balance during these later rounds.

You're still gonna be bruised and worn, but you'll be able to stick out the fight. And hopefully. Come through a triumphant. Mindfulness. eventually becomes an antidote.

to your psychological suffering. No, it's not that negative emotions and moods no longer arise. But when they do You can drop back and merely witness them.

You can't always do it. Perhaps. But you can sometimes do it. And then you can do it more and more. What begins to happen is that your own psychological suffering becomes a kind of mindfulness alarm.

Which reminds you to pay attention. And when you pay attention. It actually helps. That's the sign that your mindfulness is becoming a useful Skill.

And in those moments you no longer imagine that your suffering is coming From the outside. You're no longer disposed to merely blame the world. Or other people. You recognize

Viscerally. That that thing that made you angry. Or anxious. wasn't the true cause of your suffering. The true cause was internal.

To your mind. And you can take responsibility for noticing. This process. And for relaxing the apparent hold. It has on you.

None of this is to say you will eliminate your negative emotions. And this is not something you should aim for. But what meditation will do is give you the ability as a leader to drop back and witness your thoughts. Your emotions. Your motives. and your assumptions without getting tangled up in them.

Doing this is a skill and will take practice. And that leads to waypoint number four. Committing. Over and over.

Each stage of the entrepreneurial journey demands something new from a founder, and so you'll find yourself needing to recommit to the journey over and over again. Sam says it's the same with meditation. There's a lot that can be said about what it means to make progress in meditation practice. In some traditions the notion of progress can be made to seem fairly paradoxical.

But there are actually a few landmarks. on the path that are valid to consider. as indications of whether you're getting the intended benefit. From this practice. And whether you're recognizing important features of your own mind.

That are there to be recognized. A first and most basic. Is whether you're able to make a regular habit. of doing the practice. And that can be hard to do.

Still, you really do just have to decide to do it. And when you go too many days without following through on that decision? You have to decide to do it all over again. Of course any positive habit Is like this.

Working out. Changing your diet. Prioritizing time with your kids. It can be very easy to let important things fall by the way side. As you know.

And then you just have to recommit all over again. So just taking some period each day to practice is already Significant progress. Most people Never do such a thing.

In their lives. And this is where I want to take a side journey. To hear how Sam decided to shift his focus from writing books to building an app. as the best way to scale his ideas on meditation. What made you

Then think An app. was a Interesting way for helping this path forward, this direction toward

Mindfulness. Well I had noticed the two main Meditation apps come to market. And what they were doing and that there was a market. for this technology.

It just struck me that it was the perfect technology. Instruction. It's so much better than a book. I had taken the time to write my book waking up. And

Compared to audio It's just the wrong delivery system. Guided meditation and even audio instruction in lesson form. is better than reading a book and then trying to go off and do it on your own. There's something about

Pure audio. That's even an improvement over video. What did you learn'cause you know, products are always these things that are an iteration. And Waking up.

is actually in fact a public intellectual thing of look, here's how to kind of evolve your mindfulness. Hm what did you learn in the iteration of product? What was the oh do more of this, less of this, this enable scale.

This Kind of Creates limits. Well, first let me say I'm definitely still learning. I consider myself a reluctant and By no means precocious entrepreneur.

So I stumbled into this. I went from writing a book on the topic to recognizing that an app would be better. And then I publicly committed on my podcast Two Building an app.

And releasing it. And At that point had no awareness, literally zero awareness. that this was going to be a fantastically complicated and expensive Endeavor.

So I just didn't understand that an app is something that's basically never Never done. you're continually developing it and resuscitating it. I got a fairly

protracted and expensive education in app design. Going with the wrong shop. And then going with another group that turned out also to be wrong for different reasons, but sort of got me further along and got me to a an MVP that was releasable.

The truth is I'm still as you might imagine, I'm still iterating now the Plane is cruising it. Something like thirty thousand feet and everything's great, but It's still a process of Building and iterating and

Expanding. Sam went out on a limb making the app. It was a lonely. Unsettling. And uncertain journey.

One that will be very familiar to any entrepreneur who struggle to make their idea into a viable business. It's a struggle that Sam crystallizes so neatly in this next excerpt. And that brings us to waypoint number five. The primate.

Within. Mm. The root of the problem is what Sam calls our internal monkey. the behaviors that stem from our evolutionary origins as primates.

As you begin to train this capacity. For merely being aware. of what's arising in consciousness, you'll see that it's almost like consciousness has become shackled. To a monkey. But it it is not.

The monkey. This monkey software. That's being run. Of social anxiety. And self concern.

All of us just appearing. In this space of awareness. Whether we're formally meditating. Yeah.

We're just paying attention clearly even in the midst of our Living. Those can be moments. Where we cut the connection. To all of these evolved tendencies.

Merely by paying close attention. And recognizing The space. In which Everything is appearing.

In each moment. And that can be a profound relief. So whatever happened yesterday. And whatever may yet happen.

Today. Take this moment. And with clear attention. To a sound. Or sensation.

Or rise in thought. Simply cease to be. A monkey. And now for our final waypoint. Number six.

Eternal failure. Founding a company can be very lonely. Even when you have co founders. In the rare instances that you can catch your breath, you will often find yourself dwelling on worries about decisions made or decisions not yet taken.

It's all too easy for these brief moments of darkness to turn into an all engulfing fog that will cloud your judgment and therefore your chances of success. Establishing a mindfulness practice is one way to build a mental resilience to move through that fog. There's a catchphrase in Silicon Valley that entrepreneurs need to fail fast. What that means is that you have to try risky things, except that some will fail. Learn quickly, and then move on to the next risky thing.

It sounds simple, but it requires mental resilience. and self awareness. And for this. Meditation is uniquely helpful. When we practice meditation, one of the things we learn is how to begin again.

In each moment. You notice that you're distracted. You've been lost in thought for Who knows how long? And then suddenly you return to a clear witnessing

of the contents of consciousness. You notice a sound. Or the breath. Or some other sensations in your body. Or you see the present thoughts.

Unraveling. And in this clear noticing of this next appearance in consciousness. We're training our minds. We're practicing a willingness to simply return to the present moment.

Without judgment. Without disappointment. Without Contraction. With a mind.

That is standing truly free. of the past. And it's always possible to recover this freedom. No matter what happens. There is no entrepreneurship without learning.

And there's no entrepreneurship. Without a lot of adversity. and failure along the path. The key is to learn from that failure and move on. Not dwell on it and become stuck.

This is why the ability to recommit and to do so passionately is important. Recognize your failures in the positive context of moving forward. Self-criticism that impedes your learning will impede your ability to iterate and grow. Some of my biggest learnings as an entrepreneur have come from saying, Oh, I really sucked at that. I didn't do that well. and then incorporating what I learned into my future gameplay.

Making the time investment. To clarify your thinking and master your own emotions will help you go through this process more rapidly. Learn more. And scale faster. And that's the thing. Brings us to the end of this master class.

But it by no means brings us to the end of the fascinating topics. Sam and I covered it in our interview. What I wanted to share with you in particular was our discussion about the importance of being honest with yourself. It's a first principle. That both Sam and I see as foundational in scaling our ideas.

I wish we had a lot more of a society. being reflective about who we are as individuals and a society and who we should Be who should become How did you get into the public intellectual path.

Because part of the thing that I think is Interesting, especially as we get to waking up. And the app. Is you start playing a scale public intellectual role.

Intellectual honesty really has to be the ground truth of our conversation with one another. And so I think public intellectuals are the people who try to do that most deliberately. and try to stand outside of any

institutional pressure that would make it harder. To do that. The way that I think about that. Is I think public intellectuals are individual and collective truth seekers.

And then the question when you ask yourself Are you a truth seeker? Well How good of a case. Can you make

For yourself being a truth seeker. Most people just say, Oh, I am and I I do and you're like Well no If you're actually a truth seeker, you're gonna be able to make a very philosophical, like a detailed case. Uh this is actually in fact how I am seeking truth. This is my openness to having my Mind change. These are the

Ways in which I am Testing my beliefs. To see if They are right, or matter of fact, they're almost always partially wrong. how I should be improving them, how I should be refining them.

And most people can't make that case. And so My hope. for the public intellectual evolution in society. is that truth seeking becomes more of a aspirational and cultural norm.

Which obviously Today we are very far away from I think one heuristic there is to notice What your incentives are.

And to notice those times where what is true or acknowledging what is true. What you have every reason to believe is true. is going against the grain of those incentives and to just notice what you do at those moments. I mean, is that a moment where you

Decide to just Prioritize some other topic? in some way that you can't really argue for apart from the fact that it's convenient, whether financially or reputationally. to not be standing where you actually think the truth is. And I just as a point of

pride that is very close to the core of my ethical worldview. I have just Decided that I'm going to whenever I can notice Then I'm

getting pushed by something other than intellectual honesty. An alarm goes off in me and I want to I want to kinda reset and it's not to say that I'm perfect at it. And it is true that I will occasionally I've learned To pick my battles.

In the sense that you have to be aware that not every single fact that you could defend is worth defending at the first possible opportunity to defend it. Right. And so there's been some learning from me there. But I definitely err on the side of putting both feet in my mouth.

When it matters. Being honest about your endeavor is vital for you as a founder. It will save you wrong turns and wasted effort. But you will need trusted companions who will help you stay close to this guiding truth. You'll need to be open to having your truth challenged.

And your mind changed. Similarly. For meditation to work, you need to commit to the process involved. Both journeys have a lot in common. Not least of all

That they constantly humble you. I'm Reed Hoffman. Thank you for listening. Masters of Scale is a Wake What original. The show is recorded remotely with sanitized audio gear. Our executive producers are June Cohen and Darren Treff.

Our supervising producer is Jay Punjabi. Our producers are Chris McLeod, Adam Skuse, Jenny Cataldo, Jordan McCloud, Catherine Clark Gray. Hali Bondi, Christina Gonzalez, and Ben Manila. Our editor at large is Bob Safian. Original music and sound design by Ryan Holliday. And Daniel Nissenba.

Audio editing. by Keith J. Nelson. Mixing and mastering. by Brian Pugh. Speaks.

Precie Elisa Schreiber. David Sanford. Saida Sapia. Adam Heiner, Emily McManus. Kelsey Capitano.

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