Rapid Response: Operating in a fishbowl w/Philly 76ers & NJ Devils CEO Scott O’Neil

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Join us at masters of scale dot com slash apply twenty six. That's mastersofscom slash apply. Twenty six. I don't think there's a moment in history Where sports has been more important.

The biggest difference between this and any other business you'll ever run or own. Is that we operate in a fishbowl. And when you lose sight of that It causes pain. Here, when you raise prices or trade a player or sign a coach.

is global news around the world. And why that sometimes is really difficult. It's also an incredible asset. We are doing everything we can to make sure that our arenas and stadiums are safe and that

There's Purelle at every corner and we'll have new ways to to get you concessions and new ways to enter so you're not waiting online and you might go through a heat scanners, all this stuff. Why are you jumping through these hoops? It's just a game, it's not. Because this is the new town square. That's what sports represents. I happen to be a real glass half full guy and there's no way you let a crisis like this slip by without Getting stronger and coming out, having learned a few things.

Trust the process. That's Scott O'Neill. CEO of the Philadelphia seventy sixers and the New Jersey. The seventy sixers franchise has become famous for an adage. Trust the process.

Many things about the process are now up in the air thanks to Covid nineteen, but others, Scott argues, Are clearer than ever. This is Bob Safian, host of Masters of Scale. Rapid response. With sports league shut down during the great lockdown.

Scott's been forced to rethink his business models. While also taking into account the needs of his players and employees, And the community role that his teams play. It's a delicate balancing act, and he admits He hasn't always gotten it right.

But he's far from deterred. From lobbying administration officials to collaborating with other teams, Scott continues to be optimistic about the future. Even as he faces new strains and uncertainties. I'm Bob Safian and I'm here with Scott O'Neill, the CEO of Harris Blitzer Sports Entertainment, which also makes him CEO of several of its properties, including the Philadelphia 76ers of the NBA, the New Jersey of the NHL. He's a busy guy with sports and live entertainment.

suspended this spring, Scott's World has been unexpectedly shifted. His employees have questions from Superstar athletes, to front office executives, to arena personnel, and the future Remains murky. Scott is coming to us today remotely from his home in Pennsylvania, as I ask Questions from my home in New York. Scott, thanks for joining us.

Bob, it's so good to be here with you. It's been quite a while since we've connected, so this is quite a treat for me. I wanted to start by asking you if you could Go back to the beginning of the lockdown. When Utah Jazz player Rudy Gobert tested positive for COVID nineteen, and the NBA suspended play.

On March eleventh. Where were you? What did you do? Can you paint the scene for me about how that first like Hit you? Sure. So March eleventh.

I was at the Well Fargo Center in Philadelphia. The Philadelphia seventy sixers were taking on the Detroit Pistons. Another home win. We have an incredible home record. And late in the game we started to uh see the reports on Twitter. Which is uh

It's that's how a lot of us in sports get the news. It breaks very quickly on Twitter. that Rudy Gobert had tested positive. We quickly put two and two together that the jazz had very recently played the pistons. Who we were playing against? And we finished the game shortly thereafter.

And I remember Elton Brand and I, who's our general manager, got together and talked for a few minutes. And then we grab Dave Schaller and Patrick Reese of our communications team. And walked in to talk to Brett Brown, our coach. who we knew would be addressing the media

Fifteen to twenty minutes after the game. And then we all went in to address the team. And then shortly thereafter, Brett and Elton. Sat in front of the media, answered some quick questions. And then we uh all got out of dodge. And the next day or a few days later the NHL suspended.

Play as well. Right. Were you surprised by all this happening? I know you had some plans to China that had been suspended. You had some inkling that some things were coming, not necessarily Of this nature.

I get to China about once a quarter, so was tracking Covid nineteen relatively closely. And so I had a I had a really good sense of how touchy and dicey it was there, maybe earlier than it hit the radar fully here. As early as late February we had a task force of twelve people.

throughout different aspects of the organization, hockey, basketball. business team, ops team. To try to figure out how we could Run this company. As a distributed workforce.

And uh make sure we had the right tech in place, the right communication process in place. So so to say that we were caught by surprise would not be accurate. We tend to be a a hair neurotic, maybe a bit overprepared. Uh and in this case it panned out really well. Um it was very seamless in the transition. So were there things about the planning that you had in place that When it actually hit you were like

Oh, this didn't go down exactly as we had expected it would. What adjustments did you have to make? The most important adjustment was the mental health aspect. Which I I had not contemplated or anticipated.

And so what we learned a lot of us Is Uh one spending a a lot of time with our families is a lot. Many of our employees, the millennials and Gen Zers live at home and have we encourage them to go home to their parents and their families.

We have s some folks who are You know, with a partner or a or a spouse. And we have others with families and children and those situations Offer different challenges. And I think

For those of us who are extroverts And need physical touch and physical contact. It's become a challenge for those of us who um are living alone, they might feel isolated at times. That's the one thing I I had not Contemplate it or anticipated.

You've had some exposed employees, I expect. H how do you know what's going on across all the different folks across all the different organizations that you're part of? Yeah, we my brother runs a healthcare tech company. Call the Get Well Network. And uh I founded it. Twenty some odd years ago. when he was um going through radiation and chemo for non Hotchkiss lymphoma.

And kinda his mission in life has been to improve the patient experience. And so he created what's called the get well loop. Yeah, it gives you a Two minute. Check on your m physical health every day.

It's actually led to a couple to get teste quickly quickly. And so look It happens. This is a fast spreading First.

And as leaders, we have to make sure that health and wellness of our employees is paramount. So we have one physical check in every day at least. This has been an adventure. It's been an incredible learning experience You know, it was time for this pause for all of us. The the world was moving really quickly.

And for for those of us that may have lost touch and find ourselves connecting with people we haven't spoken to in twenty years. I I I think the the world needs this pause. And we need this type of connection and reminder. And I think we're gonna come out stronger for it.

When you see what's happened with the environment too, I you know, you see lions roaming In Kruger Park. You see pictures in India where they can see the Himalayas for the first time. And you see dolphins swimming through the channels of in Venice and you're like, Okay maybe the physical world need this pause as well. So I happen to be a a real glass half full guy and some might argue that my glass team's over

With optimism and hope. But there's no way you let a crisis like this slip by. Without Getting stronger and coming out. Having learned a few things.

It certainly In crisis we prioritize all kinds of things. In different ways where some of the the stresses and the priorities that your teams are struggling with are financial as well as emotional. And I'm curious how your

handling that early on there was some Episodes I recall that you sort of Cut back on some pay and then reversed it. Oh, I'll remind you. No, it wasn't great. I had a good sense of what was happening.

And I think I might have been too close to it just from a timing end. But seeing what was happening in China and what was rolling through Europe and particularly France and Italy. In Spain. You know, I had the sense that We were gonna get

This tsunami that we have now. And so I went to our management team. And I went to them and said, I think this is gonna be bad. I think we're gonna be shut down for a while. And I think the financial impact is gonna be pretty heavy. And are are you open to some s twenty percent cuts?

And I think that'll avoid any furloughs or layoffs. And the type of team that there wasn't a hesitation. Which was so inspiring as a leader. And so we went out, we were among the first to do that in the sports industry. Uh since then there have been fifty, seventy, a hundred examples of them doing it, but we were first out And and not of any badge of honor.

I made a mistake. And I don't think the world was ready to feel and hear that. And the guys I work for were getting beat up pretty good. And their point was like why are we doing this?

And I said, Well, it's responsible, it's the thing to do. And Josh Harris and David Blitzer from Apollo and Blackstone, respectively, amazing guys. Wonderful values. They lead with their hearts. And they kinda went to me and said, Like, what are you doing? We're getting killed because of what?

You know, I said, Well, here's why, because this, this, this is like No, we're not doing this anymore. And so we pulled it back. Uh pretty quickly. So I was it was a twenty four hour, thirty six hour hell zone for me. Personally.

But you know, in the end I think it was the right decision. I wish I just would have waited. Like it's not the first mistake I've made. And it certainly won't be the last. It was just the timing. You sort of feel like you maybe you hit it too soon. This business is different too. I you know, when I worked for the NBA League office

I had the good fortune of working for David Stern Rest of soul. But he You know, would often times send me into teams when there was a new

And I was to give them the talk as to like don't make the new partner mistakes, if you will, new governor mistakes. And generally the biggest difference between this and any other business you'll ever Run or own. Is that we operate in a fishbowl.

And when you lose sight of that It causes pain. And so you you can have a five billion dollar acquisition, you can create the next version of sliced bread. You you can

Be a a darling of Wall Street. You can Be the greatest venture capitalist in the world. Those deals get a speck of attention here when you raise prices or trade a player or sign a coach. is global news around the world. And why that sometimes is really difficult.

It's also an incredible asset. And so I would only pivot and transition to say like that same attention, that same Difficulty. is also the reason that our athletes, Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons and Tobias Harris and Josh Richardson, Al Horford, and these guys have just stepped up and said, You know what? We'll take this celebrity in all his attention, let's go do some good with it.

You know, the organization with the players probably gave Eight and a half million dollars away? So we talked to Mayor Kenny.

And Mayor Baracca uh Mayor Kenny is the mayor of Philadelphia. Mayor Baracca is the mayor in Newark. And Governor Wolf and Governor Murphy and we're saying what is the problem? And they said. Uh, how are your kids doing? I said, My kids are doing great. They're up in the rooms in school. You know, and I said great,'cause they have laptops and they have connectivity.

And kids in the disadvantaged areas don't have either. And so we bought Eleven thousand Chromebooks. To help. And now is that gonna change the world?

And mate for those families. We fed a hundred and fifty thousand families. And so is that gonna change the world? When you put food on a table. Yeah, I think it would.

And so I think there's some things that we've seen we've done a a ton for healthcare workers. We had our employees. kind of work collaboratively uh with Legends, our food supplier up in uh the Prudential Center in Newark. and take the perishable food, package it up and get it to employees that actually needed the food. should draw back from ten minutes ago when I said

Hey, maybe there's something special in the pause. There is. There's a a greater level of humanity now than I've seen in some time. Those of us, and I know you're old enough to know this as I am. It's like we've been through nine eleven. We were in New York. And so we understand when when humanity rises up how powerful that is in this country. And we've been through Sandy and Katrina. And we've even been through the economic collapse in oh eight, oh nine.

And that is when the best parts of humanity, the best parts of this country seem to come to the forefront. And I think we're seeing more of that. Today than we ever have. When you've built substantial wealth through your business, it's often tied up in a single equity position. The upside is real, but so is the risk, and knowing when to act isn't always obvious.

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There can be two types of companies. Those were great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future? That is human centered. I'm Rana El Calyubi. On my podcast Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone.

Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future. And we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Some people have said that the NBA's decision to suspend play sort of influenced state and local governments and businesses and schools to sort of accelerate in some ways and create the lockdown. Yeah, I mean, first off, the commissioners make those calls. And so we're very fortunate. I'm in two leagues with two outstanding commissioners, Gary Bettman of the NHL and Adam Silver. of the NBA. And those two are not just world class sports executives.

but they're world class executives that could run any Fortune one hundred company in the world. And so do they recognize that the decisions and impact they make Will lead and guide the world. I don't know. But what I do know is this, they're focused on the right things.

And that is health. safety and well being Of our fans. Our players and our organizations. I will also say that I don't think there's a a moment in history

Where sports has been more important. And those listening who don't work in the industry or have never been to an a Philadelphia seventy sixers game or a devil's game or whatever their local team is. might not fully understand and comprehend How important we are in terms of bringing back and bringing together this group. That's been isolated.

And so While somebody might be saying, Why are you rushing back? We're saying we are running to get back. And we are doing everything we can to make sure that our arenas and stadiums are safe and that We have cashless pay systems and doors open automatically and there's Purelle at every corner and we'll have new ways to to get you concessions and new ways to enter so you're not waiting online and you might go through a heat scanners, all this stuff. Why are you jumping through these hoops? It's just a game. It's not.

Because this is the new town square. That's what sports represents. This is where you come as perfect strangers to come together as one. To root and cheer and dance and sing. It's like

If the world ever needed community like this, it's now. And we are working like mad. To make sure that People can come in and feel comfortable and safe. all that magic, that touch, that feel, that sense of oneness

Uh that's what we need. And that's what we're missing. And uh and I hope to to be part of a team that provides some of that. But it's like the business model It's gotta be totally rethought and remodeled, right? If you're spending resources on things that you didn't used to have to, like how do you model out what the business is gonna look like?

I think it was in A Vita when they said, Don't cry for me, Argentina. Is that from Avita? Yeah. That's right. We're gonna we're gonna figure it out.

You can imagine that we're a a bit on the analytical side and that we've run Hundreds, literally hundreds of models. And that we have our base case and our aggressive case and our conservative case. Based on How comfortable.

Consumer confidence is. And when a vaccine comes out or when a a treatment could come out. Which we think is more likely to be sooner than than a vaccine. and what that does to people's comfort level and what the league rules are and what your county rules are and city rules are and state rules are and federal rules are And so there are so many

Macro. Decisions that are out of our control. That of course Do we try to influence them? Yes. We're doing quite a bit of lobbying. So we're on the phone with Minuchin and McCarthy and Cudlow and McConnell this week.

And we're trying to say, Hey Can you help us? And we keep hearing the right things, which is we know how important sports are. We know we need to get You playing again.

And we know we have to keep these communities. And all that stuff's been To me encouraging and enlightening. Will there be a hit? Of course. Is there gonna be a full shift in the business model? I'm not sure. I think there'll be definitely areas of the business where we need to get better and stronger and faster. I think that the business will shift more.

to content model, which it was already shifting to, it just accelerated. And more of a direct to consumer model. It was already moving that way. It's just gonna be accelerated. I think we're going to have to be different. You know, I was on the phone with a good friend and he said, Well, will people buy sponsorships? And I'm like Course. He's like, I know, but the model's gonna change and I said

Well, I guess it depends on how you see the world. I said could you imagine We open up the NBA season. And then you have A back to business platform and you're taking all the small businesses, seasoned ticket holders.

Suite holders, club seed holders, and sponsors. And you're kinda integrating them back together to do business with each other? To me that would be really interesting. How about a heroes platform where you're celebrating the great healthcare workers? Like sign me up. And so we're gonna have to think more creatively and think very differently.

And get our buildings. Okay, but at the end of the day, it's like we are in the business of hope. And we're in the business of inspiration and we're in the business of one and community. All that stuff we need. So we have work to do.

And our business will get hit in the short term. It'll recover. Because we need this. I need it. I need my sports fix. You're a member of the Board of Governors meetings for the NBA and the NHL, right? All of the sort of return to play scenarios, you're privy to T

Are there particular ones that you favor? Bob Auger was on a call and he he said this is not about A date? It's about data. Which I loved. I just love the quote. How will it happen and when will it happen?

When the data says so. In some businesses. You know, once the pattern is broken, the way things have historically operated. It suddenly opens new conversations for new things. Could there be a a different cadence in the calendar, like do you have like mini tournament in the middle of the seasons and st it is has all that stuff sort of become more possible to entertain now?

I think the whole world, yes, our perspective has changed. And will we be open more open to new ideas? Of course. Well the temporary Impact of the

economics of the sport. Give us a little more impetus to get on our horse, if you will. And take some chances. I do believe that. And I think that spurs

Progress. Some change. Some different platforms. I think the better. Now you gotta remember like these are two leagues that have done this repeatedly over time. I mean you have the NHL They rolled out the the winter classic.

Which I thought was brilliant. They rolled out the World Cup of Hockey. The NBA's been from an international tour standpoint opening up a league in Africa. opening up an NBA China office, having games around the world in India last year, but If the question is is will this increase the rate of change? Absolutely. Are there particular opportunities

That you see, that your organization sees, that you're like, Oh, this is something We should run towards From a business standpoint. This is go time. This is the time to be looking at businesses to acquire to invest in.

We have a A ventures business. in the sports entertainment media field, we have an innovation lab where we incubate early stage companies. And I mean obviously looking to put some growth capital to work. in a business that we are extremely bullish about.

And so yes, we are open for business and looking for opportunities. Yeah. I keep wondering whether I should be asking you a question about trusting the process. Like is the process different? Is trust different Yeah, trust the process has always been about Having a long term view

And making the right decisions over and over and over again. Despite Pressure you might have. From Media. Or

fans or your neighbors at a barbecue. And we have that long term view. Both at the Sixers and Devils. And and that's when I talk about being opportunistic, it's not because You can acquire a company now. and be successful, it's because our long term view

of the US and the global economy, in particular as it relates to sports, entertainment, media, were very bullish. Are we very bullish in in terms of the power of live sports. And the impact and influence it has on society. Globally. And so in terms of yes, that is an absolute one hundred percent trust in the process.

So I wonder. Іф із крайсис Do you find That your style of leadership

Is shifting in any way. a figure saying it's hard to lead by consensus in a crisis. I'm just curious how it's impacting the way you go about leading right now. Yeah, absolutely. I believe that When there is a crisis

You need to focus on communication, structure, and purpose. So that's the formula. And to move an organization quickly when Decisions are flying by left and right.

to take an authoritative approach is most effective in this case first Ten to fourteen days. Which yes, I did gravitate towards in when I was younger in my career, I definitely was a consensus builder. Almost all the time. And I found that that's very effective.

in in a lot of situations. But as you get a little older And um get a little few nicks on those bumpers. You know, you learn really quickly that there is no one size fits all. And there's no one style that fits all. And so our jobs as leaders is to adapt and overcome.

And in a time where There is uncertainty. People want to see strength. And in a time where there are questions and decisions to be made.

People need to see answers. And so part of that is being very visible. And being directive. And being a strong What the stereotypical strong leader is.

Um, and so I think those first two weeks, if you talk to my team, I think they would say yes, he was authoritative. I I mean we're having town halls once a week. The whole organization. And we are on these Zoom calls all the time. And so I I think from a communication end, we have that. And then the structure of how do you operate from home. I mean, I've never worked from home before, ever.

You know I literally walked into my den and I was like Finding out which chair I was gonna sit in. I have my boxes from when we moved a year and a half ago sitting right in front of me. So learning And adjusting. was good and and now you know we've shifted. You know, you're we're two months in now and so

For now I I I we're talking a lot about Mind, body, and soul. And while that is does not sound like, you know, a a directive finger pointing CEO, I'm far from that at this point. Now it's about health and wellness. And making sure that

We were ready. And this is a really sophisticated organization and we have to prepare for three or four Different types of opens. Well what does that actually look like? How can we be special and different?

How are we going to inspire and motivate? If we had to open an arena today with no fans, could we do it and what did it look like? What if I had social distancing? Well what if it was full? What does a concert look like? How do we protect the artists when they come in? What does the experience look like for players? I mean, the list is three hundred long. You know, you could go on and on, but if you don't get energized by that, you know, you pick the wrong business.

Do you go to the players and say, Hey, how do you feel about playing in an empty arena? What do they think about the idea of that? I leave that to Tom Fitzgerald and Elton Brand, our general managers, their outreach to the players, they have an incredible relationship with them and they they have most of those conversations. Um I can tell you just knowing the competitive spirit and fire. of a Jack Hughes or Nico He Shear, two of our star devils players. Or Joe or Ben from the seventy sixers. I mean you you these guys

They would compete over a game of checkers. Or on a game of street hockey or in a park playing basketball. given what's at stake for these teams, they wanna be on the court and on the ice as quickly as possible. Again, that's the wonder. of these incredible athletes.

You seem to be optimistic, but амшулер залата стрес. Through this time. If you Talk about the mental health. Are you stressed? I don't think I'd use the word stressed.

I'd say I'd go up and down. And so We we were just talking about it with my team this morning. There are moments. Where you feel down.

And I'm I'm generally a a roller coaster type of emotion person. And so there are days when I have really tough days or really tough hours or really tough moments. And what we talk about is just making sure that you're raising your hand if you're struggling. And we have several examples of me tapping out and saying to Hugh Weber, our president, Hugh, can you cover this meeting?

I'm not Ready to do this. You know, and and what I stress to this organization is it is okay to have a tough day. It's gonna happen. you are gonna be down. You're gonna feel like you're not productive. You're gonna feel like you're struggling. You're gonna feel like you haven't connected with anyone, or that you're alone or you're you're not

Performing at an A plus level, and that's okay. Other days we're gonna wake up. And you're gonna see the light and you're gonna smile. And what we encourage is to go shine that light. Go reach out to someone because when you help

and you serve others, your light gets brighter. It doesn't dim your light, it shines your light. And so and you've you've got to do a as good a job as you can identifying kind of where you are emotionally. and what the changes are and how you kind of find those good energy people. I actually have a list. I'm gonna add you to it. I have a list I keep right next to my chair. Of high energy people. People that give me energy when I talk to them.

And so I know my energy starts to drop. I literally go down the list and call someone. And I just talked to'em. And they have no idea why I'm calling them. And it's not because they don't know they're on a high energy list. But for me, I sometimes need an energy boost. And so to have people in my life, in my sphere.

That give me positive energy. That is something that's surely needed now. Yeah, I mean it's funny that it's only been two months. I mean it feels like it's been years. Right. Like there is no end date for us. Life is gonna change and we'll go back to some sort of new normal and

Our offices will be split, you know, in China. They take your temperature when you walk in. You go in on A days or B days. You have face masks in there. There are no meetings greater than six people. And so like our world's gonna be shifted, and it might be until September when we're back to uh in office. It might be December.

We have to be okay with The uncertainty. And we have to focus ourselves on can we serve others? And are we working on a process? We talked about this morning in our leadership meeting. And I said for the next thirty days

Write down three things that you either want to learn, accomplish, or achieve. Can you do that purposefully? And intentionally. And are you living each day purposefully or intentionally? Now, there's some of your listeners that are thinking I do not want to hear this gobbledygook.

And you're too soft. I tell you what. You can ask anyone that works for me and they will tell you, I am not too soft. But I do care about the person. I do.

I do care about the human. I think that the humanity part of this job is more important than ever now as as leaders. And I will say that I do think You need to wake up every morning and think about how you're gonna live that day and not worry about two months from now or six months from now or eight months from now. This doesn't mean you don't plan, it just means today.

How can I purposefully and intentionally live today? What am I doing to take care of my mind, body, and my soul? But you've got to identify what's most important. And and not in a Metaphorical way, but in an actual way. There are some folks who I talk to who say

That Coming out of this, you're gonna have some organizations That are gonna be stronger than ever, and some that are just gonna sort of Tread water. And then others are just gonna fall away and fall apart. Yes.

I couldn't agree more. And I I think that It goes down a little bit. to what you value. And if you marry that with attracting really smart

Incredible people around you on your team. And you put some elbow grease and some hard work into it. It's a formula for success. And I think those companies that have and share those values will be the ones that emerge. And I think it's a lot less will be a lot less indicative in terms of what industry they're in. than how they approach the industry they're in.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's a good thing It's a terrifying time in many ways, but also a fascinating time because the Pressures. And the changes

And the opportunities that we all have in front of us are So A poignant. And so Ripe. And so momentous.

That It Makes every day. An adventure. In hopefully good ways.

Sometimes bad ways. We have to make our way through the adventure. And I just want everyone to be okay with that. And to to understand it. You know, like the world's gonna get better.

The world will come back to a new normal. And this will be over. You just don't want to leave here. having not learned a lesson or accomplished something great. You know, like get out there and get yourself better. Uh my sixteen year old daughter, uh who just started driving. Told her car the other day.

Fortunately. she left with a a few scratches, you know, like some glass in her leg and The seatbelt marks from when it tightened all the airbags. were deployed and the windshield was cracked and she lost her phone her phone went flying apparently out the window. And so

The guy behind her had given her the phone and she called me. And so I had the guy's number, so I just You know, I just text him was like, Hey, I just want to say thank you for helping my daughter and blah blah blah. And he said. Hey, that really shook me up.

You know, I went home And over dinner that night I talked to my family and I said, You know what? It's a miracle. Young gal. Walked away from this.

Car accident. Like. Life's too short. We need to do something. We need to be better.

And I thought, man, what a great lesson. From a terrible accident. And an awful outcome. But we have these reminders in life. Just like the pandemic. And

Maybe there's a bright side to this pause. I'll end where I started. Maybe this time out is something that Yeah, we've been given as a gift. And I want to take that gift and unwrap it.

Well, Scott, I want to thank you for sharing your time and your insights and your perspective. With. Us with our listeners, with me. I appreciate the time, the energy when what you're doing and the podcast I know is reaching a lot of people and making a difference. So thank you for that. Masters of Scale Rapid Response is a Wait What original.

The show is recorded remotely using sanitized audio gear. It's hosted by me, Bob Sapian, Masters of Scales editor at large. and Masters of Scale host, Reed Hoffman. Our executive producers are June Cohen and Darren Triff. Our supervising producer is Jay Punjabi.

Our producer is Jordan McLeod. Scripts by Christina Gonzalez. Original music and sound design by Ryan Holiday and Daniel Nissenbaum. Audio editing by Keith J. Nelson. Mixing and Mastering by Brian Pugh.

Special thanks to Emily McManus, Sarah Sandman. Kelsey Capitano, Tim Cronin. Charlie Menessis and Saida Sapieva. Visit masters of scale.com slash rapid response to find the transcript for this episode, and be sure to subscribe to our email newsletter.

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