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Hi, everyone, it's Bob. Today we're sharing our first strategy session of twenty twenty three, recorded this January in front of a virtual audience of masters of scale members, business leaders, and special guests. In these episodes, Reed Hoffman answers direct questions from entrepreneurs on how to respond to the challenges their businesses are facing. This time around We explore key lessons around communication internally and externally, as well as how to balance innovation with sustained growth. In our Need to Know segment, Reed and I talk about optimism and caution against the backdrop of recent layoffs across the tech industry.

It's jam packed. This episode is co hosted by Reed, myself, and Jodine Dorsay, head of live events at Wait What? The company that produces Masters of Scale. At the top, you'll hear Jodine kick off the event, and then Reed and I will join a bit later. Let's get to it.

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Masters of Scale live strategy session. An Alliance with Capital One Business. This is our first strategy session of 2023, so we couldn't be more excited. To have you with us. I'm Jodine Dorsey, head of live events at Wait What, the company that produces. The wonderful masters of scale. Throughout this session

Four entrepreneurs will ask questions of read. I think you'll see many of your own challenges reflected in their questions. Read? And Bob Safian will continue the conversation on strategy through a segment called Need to Know.

Let's start welcoming a few folks into this virtual stage. Ar special guest from Capital One Business. Aparna Saren. A parna is the chief marketing officer. of business cards and payments at Capital One.

Hiya Parna. Hello, how are you today? Fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us today. And now I want to welcome Reed Hoffman. Hi, Reed!

Jadeen Aparna, great to be here with you. We're kicking off the year. Our first strategy session of this year. It's awesome. Oh my gosh, tell me about it. Well I'd love to throw it to a Parna for our first strategy session question. So a Parna. Вот the most pressing question.

you're hearing from the entrepreneurs in the capital one business community right now. Thank you, Jareen. And uh Reed, hi. It's such a pleasure to be with you today. My question today stems from the constant stream of communal adversity. That we are experiencing today. You know, as leaders, it is so crucial to codify A consistent approach to internal communications, one that drives transparency and consistency in a way that's really human. And so coming out of the high pressure experience of the past few years.

And one that continues, what new lessons should leaders have learned about communication styles? And or strategy. that we can maintain going forward. So great set of questions. You know, business, whether it's entrepreneurship, executives, communications is a central part of it. We work together. Life is a team sport, I'm not individual, and so it's always good. When people say you overcommunicate, Frequently it's'cause you're communicating the wrong thing.

So we all should aspire continuously to be ongoingly efficient. And to communicate a lot. 'Cause usually you trade off. And like for example, one of the things that I learned very early

in communications was from Jeff Weiner, who had taken over and was, you know, 10 plus years as CO of LinkedIn. was that when you're leading an organization You've only started communicating enough when you're tired of hearing it yourself. And so part of what you have to do is keep that. Kind of juice going because you'd be connected to it because it's important relative to communications others. And so The specific challenging times focal point of your question is I think that the

It may be a little bit less style and a little bit more what, which I think is a very important thing, which is when we're in these kinds of environments and these Hybrid environments. It's very easy to lose some of the tactile emotional kinds of things that you get from being in person. So like one of the things that I think I learned From all the pandemic.

was even when you're in very pressed times and going, to do a kind of a little bit of a personal check-in. Like How are you doing? How are things? I think that is a good thing anyway, and it's persisted. Like even when I did a check in with a member of my team earlier today. You know, it was the very first thing was so how are things with you and the family? You know, I was like, No, let's start there, because I think that's a very important thing to learn. But like I make sure that I get an emotional connection and response. Like if it was like oh the family oh fine. Like okay.

Anything fun that you were doing? Did you take a vacation recently? Like that's the kind of thing that I would be doing. If I was in the virtual environment whereas in person It's like okay, great. I'm emotionally checked in by being here with you. And so as I get back to being there with you, it's like fine, I hear you. Let's dive in, let's do the thing that we need to do. And it's critical. Because life is a team sport and how we get together and the communication is not just the, hey, are are you on track with that project and what do you think about this? And do we have an idea how to solve that? But also that we are teamed together.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much, as always. I love that read. Life is a team sport. Thanks again, Parna Saren from Capital One Business, for helping us kick off today's strategy session. Well, before we move on to the program, we do have a tradition here at the top of every Masters of Scale event. Reed, you see where I'm going here?

I of course do. It's our sing along. As always, we'll play our Masters of Scale theme song and encourage you to try singing along at home. Okay, let's hit it. You gotta have incredible talent at every position. There are fires burning when you're going out. Can you believe it? Such an idiot. And then you go back to this is totally gonna be amazing. There are so many easy ways. I have no idea what to do. Sorry, we made a mistake. But you have to time it right. Oops. It just seems absolutely nutball.

Yeah. This is masters of scale. And we're back. I want to welcome the co host for today. He's the former editor of Fast Company.

Founder of the Flux Group. The delightful host of Masters of Scale Rapid Response. Bob Safian. Hi Bob! Hey Jodine. Hey Reed.

Bob, I'll hand it off to you from here. Thanks, Jodine. We'll see you in a bit. Oh Reed. It's good to do strategy session time again, right? Always. So today we're gonna hear from entrepreneurs with Very different businesses, but their questions apply broadly. So if you're ready.

Right. All right. We'll dive in. All right. The first question comes from Annalisa Gooden. Annalisa is the founder and CEO of Catch and Release.

A content licensing resource for creatives agencies and brands worldwide. And Alisa? Hi, long time fan of the show. Super excited to be here. And we're excited you're here too. So uh my question's about storytelling. At Catch Em Release, we're creating a new category on the internet with our product.

As the founder, I've spelt so long with the product and the customer that I feel super confident in how to tell. Its story and its vision. As we scale and as our team grows, I think we're at an inflection point. And to continue taking the company to the next level. I feel like I need to evolve from telling the story just on my own. So my question is how can our product and market opportunity be communicated about clearly without me as its main narrator? Do I need to pass that torch entirely? Who needs to communicate the product and vision as naturally as I do?

Well, I think you will always be communicating it. So I don't think it's a complete past to torch, but I think you need to get other torches lit. Early days of Apple, they had Guy Kawasaki as chief evangelist. So as part of solving that exact problem, they hired a person and said, This is your entire job. Right. That didn't mean the job stopped doing it or other people stopped doing it, because you want to get as many of the torches to light the path to the future as you possibly can.

But what you want to do is you wanna say, Okay, what's that wave of torches that I need? Is it a couple of people really intensely? People then that would be their jobs, that'd be the things you're doing. I do think that one of the things that the modern internet brings is That there need to be more people who are kind of influencers talking in, you know, social media, LinkedIn, other places about these things. I think companies are also. The vast majority of them need to be a little bit more humanized by having these folks articulating them. So it's kinda it could be one, it could be three, it could be twenty. Ultimately, of course, you want

'Cause you live and breathe creators. You want creators doing that. Do a little bit of a A social media challenge where people are saying things, kind of awarding stuff. Like depends a little bit on how you want that spread of torches, that spread of light to go. But that would be specific to your business. But you're absolutely right. You need to broaden past just you. Uh, you will not be successful without it. And then the strategy and how you do it will depend on what the right game for your community.

for your audience how that will go. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. That was great, Reed. I I did hear too a little bit of an echo from your Answer to the earlier question, which is

Like you've just gotta keep doing it over and over and over, internally and externally. And that's necessary to get those torches lit, but Which torches do you want most? The next question comes from Alex Beller. Alex is the co-founder and president of PostScript. She's a growing SMS platform for Shopify stores.

So let's invite Alex in to ask his question. Alex Hey folks, great to be here. Reed, nice to meet you. So Something that's on my mind is that the best, most enduring companies in tech Right. They're always innovating. And so my question for you is, as a founder of a growth stage company.

What's the best way to balance that new product development? With you know, growing and supporting and investing in your existing business, right? Your existing core business, the thing that helped got you here. So there's a lot of different possible answers, and it depends a little bit on what scale you're at. So if you're kinda at an earlier scale and you're doing one kind of extension. then part of it, we're on a communications theme today is how do you communicate

How the new thing is also part of what's great about the old thing and the current and the new are gonna be there together. There will be a group of people who will not like change, even if the new change is like three new features, let alone a new thing. And so you're always communicating about why that's a good future. And also being strategic. in what you're doing, you put some place there. So for example, very early days of LinkedIn

I knew that we were not going to be focusing on advertising on LinkedIn for a while, but I didn't want the community to respond really negatively like oh now they've added advertising. So what I did is I put in an ad thing very, very early, small one. made sure was only really high quality, even though we weren't necessarily able to get high CPM or anything else early. Frequently we'd put it as an advertisement of something that was almost like an in house ad.

just so that they knew the advertising stuff was always gonna be there and coming. And that's part of when you think about the strategy from the existing thing to the new things and and it's kind of bridging for what you're doing. Then you also as you get to larger scale and you get to very multi threaded You begin to figure out like well, how much of your overall company efforts are you putting on your core? versus expansion versus kind of a strategic and at LinkedIn we ran kind of a sixty thirty ten rule, which is sixty percent is core and evolution, thirty percent is an extension, whereas an extension is kind of like look, it's like well, we're still improving search and we're still improving, but it's this new thing. Like we have companies in search and so forth, or company pages.

And strategic new is like LinkedIn learning or other kind of things like or the LinkedIn influencers program, which is like okay, well, this might be a very big thing, let's kinda bring it in. And part of what you want to be doing is A little bit of the Tell them Before Launch it, tell them after Telling a story about why the whole thing is good for them. And then helping people through the new thing.

It's the bring people along on your journey for where you're going and doing everything you can in that arc, even though you will have some resistance as part of doing it. And people feeling heard and listened to even as you might be going where some percentage of your community say, No, no, I'd rather we stay just where we are, that's a communication challenge. But it's a great question. Thank you, Alex, for the question. Thank you. All right. Yes. Thank you, Alex.

We have several more entrepreneurs who are gonna pose questions to you right after the break. When you build substantial wealth through your business, it's often tied up in a single equity position. The upside is real, but so is the risk, and knowing when to act isn't always obvious. Creative planning works with business owners to build a strategy around concentrated equity. When to diversify, how to manage tax risk, and how to protect what you've spent years.

Building. Creative planning where wealth works together. Learn more at creative planning dot com slash masters of scale. The Wired Newsroom is known for award-winning reporting on how technology shapes our world. On Wire's Uncanny Valley, we take that curiosity even further.

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Wherever you get your podcasts. Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show. Because every Friday we release a second rapid response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed the guests and topics are just as compelling and timely from Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there.

We're back with more questions from entrepreneurs in our Masters of Scale Live strategy session. And if you have a question you'd like to ask Reed in a future strategy session, please email Askreed at masters of scale.com. First up is Mariel Reed, the co founder and CEO of Pavilion. A marketplace connecting Public entity buyers with suppliers on shareable contracts.

So my question is where Silicon Valley can often embrace the positive potential of a big audacious vision. Government entities are quick to focus on the risks. So since state and local governments are our users, how can we communicate our ambition for the future without alienating the very people that we want to work with to bring it to life? Well, it's a classically difficult challenge. One of the things I applaud you on providing services for you know state and local governments because it's desperately need it and they tend to be more difficult customers for exactly the reason that you mentioned. And I'm sure you're doing this, but when you're in a situation like this, These customers will trust you less than they'll trust other people like them.

This almost always goes back to like the how you're lighting more torches and so forth. So it's like how do you get the first set and then get those being your advocate? for how you're going kind of ahead and then how do you help amplify Those state and local governments voices to the other ones. as you're going as the general pattern. And then when you're dealing with kind of the future and where you're going, ah, is this still gonna be safe? Is it gonna be yours? Cause exactly as you say, It's they're gonna risk first, no failure first.

And change always brings some risk to it. And so you're like, ah, but you're evolving and everything else. What happens when you're bigger? What happens when you have more products? What happens when you evolve your product? You know, and and all that thing in terms of kind of where you're going. And so it's get them to be your advocates, then of course you build up trust over time. And then that really helps with that. And that Алас за ноалінацін. there as part of it. But it's a great question. And there are many entrepreneurs, not just one serving state and local governments, but also those who have other kinds of risk-averse customer bases, slow moving customer bases, non-early adopters. So thank you for asking it.

Thank you. All right, Reed. Are you ready for the last question in this segment? I am indeed. We get to go to Greta, Greta McNane, co founder and CEO of Blue Fever, an emotion and wellness app for Gen Z to develop and share their authentic self. Hi, so excited to be closing out. No pressure for me here. Blue Fever is an emotional media app, which means that we are growing at the speed of trust. And that means dodging any of the typical gimmicks of growth and addiction building that traditional social media perpetuates. We're gaining traction, we're excited about our trajectory, but we Are wrestling with how to communicate to the market in their language what success should look like, right, in this ever evolving and really nascent space of digital well being. So, Reid, my question for you is, how can we dictate

and communicate the way our growth and ultimately the value that we're creating as a company is evaluated. So Obviously our thread for a lot of what's been going on today has been communication. And part of what you need to be doing is kind of in honing and testing your thing and kind of measuring how well is it landing. Is the thing that you're saying is the analogy you're doing is the simplicity.

Of the communication, whether it's category benefits, other kinds of things, is it resonating and landing? That's one of the reasons why, you know, even when it gets down to individual, like I still do some media training because even me communicating, it's like, well, how is it heard? Well, what do people do? Are you communicating looking like you're being nervous, or other kinds of things? That's an individual. But it also goes to products, which is To don't just always think Oh, it's my vision and I need to articulate as best as possible. It's like yeah yeah. Do that.

But then also be in a loop where you're learning and you're hearing is like how did that land? Was it said the right way? Do I need to change it a little bit? You know, even if I find that a prime as a message isn't quite resonate as much with me, but it resonates with a bunch of other people and is really what I'm trying to say, then that's what you do in terms of communicating that, because obviously value is what they So it's it's a great question. All the communications questions are, you know, we communicate constantly as entrepreneurs, you know, customers, employees, investors, stakeholders. All the thing it's super important. So Thank you for asking it.

Thanks, Reid. Appreciate it. Well, thank you to Greta and to all of our entrepreneurs for being here and to you, Reed, for responding to these questions. They've been Some great questions today from the guests. And I'll say that we've gotten a lot of other burning questions too sent to us from our community of entrepreneurs. I'm particularly intrigued by one that's come up repeatedly. And I'd love to ask you about it in our next segment called Need to know.

Reed, we've recently seen a bunch of big tech companies announcing layoffs. But these have often been Jobs that they only added recently to. Essentially they were Overly optimistic about the future in good times. And now of course they could be overcorrecting and dropping talent that they may want later. And I think

All entrepreneurs Go through their versions of this of Trying to respond to current conditions, good or bad. But not Overreacting?

And so I'm wondering how you think about that balancing act, whether there's Sources of information that help you? You know, how much of that is about listening part of communication. Or is it more about a discipline About knowing whether

the near term is getting in the way of your long term. So There are many things about where entrepreneurship is kinda running over uneven ground through the fog at night. And a lot of

you know, kinda risk decisions and are kinda letting fires burn. And part of that gets to the What's the speed that you should be pushing at? What's the level of burn? 'Cause you know, all entrepreneurship well The vast majority of entrepreneurship, especially venture capital funded entrepreneurship. Із на

you know, revenue funded, you have a negative burn that you're it's part of the reason you raise capital on. And so that always gets a what's the level of that? And part of the challenge of it, well, is in a growth market where there's a lot of flow of capital. You should be growing more aggressively. It's part of how you outpace the competition. Why say such things as blitz scaling. And in a capital constrained market, you should be focused on endurance and on navigating what is perhaps a long uncertainty about how easy it is to get capital and what you should be doing.

And then of course you get caught out on it, which is you see a whole bunch of tech companies doing layoffs'cause they were like Well, last year we thought we should be doing the growth market, so we're hiring a whole bunch and we're going for it and they'll go and this year we shouldn't be. And so we have this regretful path of doing some layoffs, although Part of the reason why I've been a general voice of calmness in the media has been Look, uh the will be layoffs is companies retrenched, but there's still a lot of money for tech, still a lot of companies wanting to hire tech positions and all the rest. And so it's not a, Oh my God, now, you know, the good times are over, you know, rest in peace. It's kinda like, No, no, no, no.

We don't know when we don't know if it's this year, next year, year after, and so forth. Growth will continue, but there is a kind of contraction and refocus that's part of it. And that whereas that gets to entrepreneurs. is to say we'll be recognizing you're like okay, you're now no longer it's outpacing relevant competition for the medium and long term, not necessarily the short term, but you have to get through the short term in terms of doing it. What does the capital market look like? And so

Even companies that I'm on the board of have done layoffs and retrenchments. And press generally makes a big deal of that, not to nudge Bob for his former Press backdrop. Like, oh, it's you know it's six percent layoffs, and it's like, well, it's less people than they hired last year, right? But it's kind of a good focus, and too often.

People don't realize that it's kind of like it's the question of like Take all these negatives like oh I gotta be more capital constrained, I have to reduce my burn rate. Turn it as much as you can into a positive. It's one of the general few feelings of kinda. Jujitsu moves that you need to do in entrepreneurship is you have this negative, how much can you turn it into a positive? Cause you're sure you'd say, look, we hired people because we wanted to accelerate. We know how we could use them for getting into the future that we want to be getting into.

But We need to be careful about our Cash, we don't know what the future financing is, so now refocusing And that's how it plays. So I think that's the yin yang theory that you need to be bringing into this kind of entrepreneurship. as a way of doing it.

Yeah, I guess to circle back to that communication theme. It sounds a little bit like not all leaders are comfortable being as upfront about the reasons and this landscape, right? That yeah. Whether that's we made the mistake by hiring too many people, or whether that's Like, listen, we're still a lot bigger than we were, you know, a year ago.

Yeah, and it always has to be done in the layoffs have compassion. For people who like look, I went and changed my life around to join this company. And I'm now being laid off. That's not great. Right. And look, it's a legitimate case where the leader said, I didn't know that the market contraction was coming. Right. But you always have to have that humanity first in this. And y you're seeing some of the differences between

great leaders and not so great leaders on how they're navigating this. I loved it back when Brian Chesky, you know, very early, and I think you had him on on Rapid Response and the stuff, you know, had this generally, okay, I'm gonna let these people go, but I'm gonna advertise the whole world. I feel the pain of letting these people go. They're really awesome. I'm gonna enable them as much as possible. I'm gonna be human and generous in it. Cause then by the way, most of those people go, Well, shoot, I love working Airbnb. And if Airbnb calls me in the future, I might come back. Right. And other people say, Oh I can go. you know, run with Airbnb because in fact they are human first. And even if they get in these difficult things, they'll be looking out for me. And and even if I'm laid off, they'll be looking up for me. That's great. That's a company I wanna be part of. And I think that's again part of okay, it's a negative. How do you show who you are as a leader, who you are as a company, who you are as a culture.

Mm. I wanna ask about one more topic. Something you and I are gonna talk about a lot. Going forward, I'm sure, but about artificial intelligence, you're a big supporter of chat GPT, which is everywhere. For the entrepreneurs that are here with us

How should they think about AI's potential impact on their efforts? You know How do they stay up to date with things that seem like they're changing? Constantly? Do you have a suggestion about that? So

Kind of not a surprise. For you and people who know me is using network intelligence. Part of it is pieces of intelligence distilled in the right way come from other people. And so part of it is even when I'm asking which podcast to listen to or which things to read. I essentially do it through people. And part of that is to be intentional and directed in the questions you're asking. So if you go, okay, like well, what are the tech trends coming? Which are the ones that might unseat me? What am I missing right now? Your network is your sensors around you. And they may direct you to other people, they may direct you to a podcast, they may direct you to kind of a news article, a book.

etc. as ways of doing it, but that's I think the really key way to kinda stay on top of it. To communicate with your network, right? Keep using those resources, those people In a lot of ways are your best resources. Yes.

I love that read. Thank you. I wanna bring back our colleague Joe Dean, who I think has another Twings for us. Jardine. Thanks, Bob. Before we end the show, I wanna pose a couple of questions that came in through the chat. I'm reading the chat right here and it looks like Margot

Turback. She says I know you often say if you're not embarrassed by your first launch. You've launched too late. But I wanna make sure we launch with the product we promised from the beginning.

How do you juggle this question of launching early, but with a product that you can be proud of and to stand by? Well, it's a great question, and it depends a little bit on which industry you're in. And part of that quote is very oriented at consumer internet software, because too often entrepreneurs will say, I want to be proud, I want to show this really great thing. And I did this, I made this mistake in my very first startup social net. And I spent

Way too many months working on it. And if I'd released early. Then I would have learned and move faster. And so the quotes are basically orientation and consumer internet. of the importance of being speed, of actually learning what your customers actually really know because by the way say, well, I promise this them, this is what they're expecting. It's like, well do they even know themselves necessarily until they're engaging. Frequently, that's one of the reasons like focus groups on things can be misleading on the stuff like should I build product equity product why?

Until they're experiencing it, they don't necessarily themselves know either. And so the speed of the engagement with the actual thing and learning from it and improving. is what's really important on the consumer now. The asteriskes to my theory are Like you're releasing a hardware product or something like that.

Well, it may not be that you have a chance for a second release. There is no iteration, so you have to get it much more right. First when you're doing it. It isn't that the theory perfectly applies to everything. But when you're doing a consumer earned software fastest possible engagement learning is super important in terms of how you

How you go. In the media business where I've been in, I think the way we approach it is like you wanna release A thin product? Like, don't try to do everything. If it's important that what you put out is something you need to be proud of and being embarrassed by means it's gonna go away. Get something out that's

Thinner. that can be focused on that, you can get feedback and then you can Add the pieces to it later. We have so much ambition about what we wanna have our products be and do, and sometimes you have to walk a little bit, even though you wanna run. Great words, great wisdom. I'm gonna jump down to Clara Moda. Clara asked a really good question.

And times of downturn. It can be difficult to see what the smartest hires are to steer the company to safety. Should you look at long term experience candidates? Or instead.

Go down the route of interim managers, part time recruits. to get the immediate work done. It's a great question. You want the people who are most Аптив то й чангінь серкомст. And be learning

themselves and learning along with you and with the organization on what needs to happen. And we'll be adjusting because we're in downturn and changing circumstances. And if that's somebody who's like, Okay, I've been very experienced, great and if it's a young intern who's being promoted, great. But it really kinda plays to Adapt with you and being very adaptive. And that's actually one of the things that's very important to be hiring in a number of key roles in these entrepreneurial journeys is adaptive people.

That I would look at much more intensely than exact experience. I love that read. We recently released an episode Graphic Response where the theme was around versatility. And and that's the word I keep thinking of. You want people who can be multi-tool players in different ways because You never know what game you're gonna be playing. The game just keeps changing. Exactly.

So true. Well we've come to an end. Bob and Reed, thank you for being such Gracious host and for being so generous with your time and your wisdom. Jodine, thank you. See you next time. Thank you.

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