3rd Richest Man In The World, Team Zuck, and MrBeast's Best Biz

Do you know about A certain man named Gotham Adani. Have you ever heard this name before? I don't remember. What's his shtick? Yes, the Indian guy from uh uh he's kinda like a

And he owns like the huge mansion in down in downtown like Mumbai where like it it's like a skyscraper. Yeah, so he um so he Elon Musk number one, Jeff Bezos number two, and now Adani number three. And so people They watch this list. And they're like, Who's who is a Donnie? All right, in this episode we're talking about the third richest man in the world, somebody who you've never heard of. We talked about Team Zuck. So basically Zuckerberg has this new video of him doing an MMA and we did a little recap on how we feel about it, but also

We kinda looked at how he makes his decisions and what our perspective is on him, and I actually think it's quite interesting. We broke down one of Mr Beast's To me, the most interesting business that Mr. Beast has that nobody else is really talking about. And I think is low key.

A star business. So that's the episode. Give it a listen. Let us know what you think. And write in the comments, go on YouTube, write in the comments, I'll be reply to every single comment that's in here. with something that's either smart or funny, I guarantee it. Go to the comments and leave one and I'll reply. All right, I have a a a fun one. This will get us in the mood. So Kanye West, uh pop culture

Uh do you follow Kanye? Of course. I don't really pay attention to Kanye West really. Uh it's not really on my uh radar, but He did something kinda funny and we talked about him yesterday and it's business related, but basically You know, he's having this like tizzy with Adidas. Do you know about that? No. And nice use of tizzy.

You like that? Uh well, and I frankly, I don't entirely know about it, so I'm just gonna kinda like summarize, but basically, you know, Kanye worked with Adidas to launch Yeezys, his line of shoes. Um, it's collectively made like or not collectively, but in twenty twenty Yeezy sales were one point one seven billion dollars in revenue. He made around two hundred million dollars from that. So he made a lot of money. And basically he's having a fight with them. I don't actually know what the fight is about. But the backstory is that he's accused them of stealing his designs and leaving him out of meetings for their Yeezy Shoe collaborations. Sean uh Combs, you know, Diddy said he's gonna boycott because of this. And Kanye has said, I'm gonna make things unbearable for you guys until you comply. So I don't exactly know what comply means.

But what's h kinda it's both Sad because like it looks like he's going through some stuff and it is funny and he's trying kinda trying to be funny and it's working. But he basically said, I've got no chill. It's gonna cost you guys billions to keep me. It's gonna cost you billions to let me go, Adidas. You stole my design, among other um other things, and I'll give you till Tuesday. Not until the seven months that I told you originally I was gonna give you. Today's the day. Like he like w like he's going crazy and On his Twitter, which he's got like s I don't know how many followers, seven um tens of millions, I would imagine.

He's posting Each person's picture who's on the board of directors as well as a couple other boards. Like they have a board of advisories. Uh of Adidas's people. And so he posted this one woman who's also and he's like and he'll say stuff about'em like sometimes it's funny.

But sometimes it's like uh this woman's on the board of uh Adidas, she's also chairman and investment banker at JP Morgan. I went to JP Morgan in order to raise money for my buyout and they wouldn't do it. Like He's going kinda bananas and I and I thought that that was wild. And then I saw another thing that he's he's having another tizzy with Uh his wife Kim or ex wife about a school and I I went and looked at their school Have you heard about this?

So he has his own school, right? Like he has his own academy or something like that? Yeah, so he's trying to start this thing called Donda. So Donda dot org. If you go there Yeah. Actually looks like

Weird, but interesting and Kind of fun. Like it looks cool. And if you go to about uh on how we learn You'll see like they describe the curriculum and it's like it kinda makes sense, but then you see like weird things. Like if you look at what the daily schedule, it says after school parkour. Oh.

First of all, I went to the site Donna dot org. It's just like Who we are, how we learn, admissions, and choir. Those are the top four links. Qui know which of these does not belong. I don't know why Quire is up here. Secondly There's just like a white I don't even know what kinda it looks like a white pigeon, to be honest with you.

Just flapping its wings in slow mo. Okay, it's a it's like a fat dove though. It's not it's not like a a sweet, graceful dove. It's like a chunky chunky. Guinea pig, yeah. It's a guinea pig with wings. That's just flying up in slow motion. And that's the website. I'm gonna click how we learn because I can't not. Um

Okay, they got less than twelve students per per class. Rule number one. Should be Students should be confident in forming or forming ideas. If not, their writing will suffer. Okay. So their daily schedule.

Full school warship. Okay, that's a good way to start the day. How we s similar to how we start the pod. Um Yeah.

Enrichment classes including Film choir and you're right. Parkour A bunch of singing ninjas out here just singing and flipping around. So I thought this was interesting because uh It you know, even though he's I I don't like laughing at him a a guy if he's going kinda insane, but He's trying to be funny.

With this Instagram thing and it kind of is hilarious. Uh like he posted like the a guy I think the CEO of SA uh S A P Uh Or is it SAP? Yeah. the like the HR software that nobody actually understands what they do.

He like tweeted out or uh Instagram did his this guy's face and goes, You are a sap. That's what he said. And it it just it's just And he's just doing the most childish, immature thing, and it's so funny. It is working. It's awesome. And then the school thing I saw because of his other little fight with Kim and he's like Anyway. I don't know how this is related to business, but I I I thought that you would have known about this because you're more of a pop culture guy than I am. No, but let me tell you, uh I okay, so this is

Here's a theme for this episode. I'm gonna call it People with giant egos. No. I'm gonna call it'cause I don't actually know if these people have giant egos. I'm going to say Creative Titans. That's better. Uh creative Titans. So the first one is gonna be

My Billy of the Week. isn't cool. You know what's cool? A billion dollars. Do you know about

A certain man named Gotham Adani. Have you ever heard this name before? Uh H I don't remember. What's his sticks? Donnie just became this guy just became the third richest man in the world.

And so you're the Indian guy from uh uh he's kinda like a a And he owns like the huge mansion in down in downtown like Mumbai where like it it's like a skyscraper. Yeah, so he um so he Elon Musk number one, Jeff Bezos number two, and now Adani number three. And so people They watch this list. And they're like, Who's who's a Donnie? And I actually I don't know if I met him, but we definitely pitched him. I I think my dad pitched him uh

A business thing many years ago. My dad always kept saying, Oh, we just need to get a Donny on board, a Donny, a Donnie, a Donny. And so I'd heard about this guy before. And I didn't you know, and his net worth is just skyrocketed because his stock Is up like thirteen X. And the last out of the year. Is this reliant industries? No, so reliance it was the top

Kind of like company there. And the guy who runs it Mukation Bonnie was the I think he was he was the richest man in India. And now Adani has passed him up in the last year because his stock went up 13x. So so who is this guy and what does he do? Okay, so um

What he does, you'll you'll appreciate this. Is he a software guy? Is he a Mark Zuckerberg. No, no, he's not. Is he Elon Musk, is he trying to create the future of uh you know, space travel and You know, like brain computer interfaces. No.

This guy operates in a place that Sam likes. Power. So he does coal. Ports. Plastics, you know, shit like that. So basically this guy's like

Did they do they do like industrial work. And so he owns when so when he was a he was a kid, he was in school, he went to go visit this port It was the largest port in the country at the time, a port, you know, where literally like ships come in and out. And um he's like inspired by it was like one day I'm gonna own the biggest port ever. Uh the biggest port in India. And now he sure enough, he owns the biggest port in India. He owns the most ports in India, too.

Um when w with the deal we were trying to do with him, we were trying to get Adani to come to Australia to build a port for our our startup that was based in Australia. Because These guys were the kings of ports. But His story is pretty cool. He's a he's a college dropout, so eighteen drops out.

He becomes a diamond sorter. I don't even know what that means, but he became a diamond sorter. He got an interest interest in the diamond business. And after a couple of years of sorting diamonds, he then goes in, he starts his own diamond brokerage. And he's like, I will trade, I will basically age of twenty as a diamond broker. Brother calls him up. Brother says, Hey Brother.

I have a uh a small plastic factory here that I I I own now. I've I've I bought or I run. And so he helps him go scale up the plastic factory. And then as he's doing that, he's like oh well let's start importing the like the the materials that come up you know, upstream of plastics. And so he starts.

Do he creates like a an export company. And so he just keeps creating these companies. So now he has seven publicly listed companies. He's got the Adani Group, which is like the The mega one and then they'll start like A Donny power, a Donny um, you know, like trading, a Donny um real estate or whatever and they'll start all these different companies and they'll take them all public

And what's interesting about it is that And he's got a beautiful mustache, by the way. Yeah, he looks like you know the meme account, Dr. Park Patel? He looks like the meme account's photo, actually. So I don't know if it's if it's him or just looks a lot like him. He looks like uh like an Indian Mario. You know, like Mario and the Ouija. He looks like an Indian Mario. Like you know? He lo he does. You know when Mario does that little squat like re you know when you wanna you wanna do that trick where you go behind the thing you're standing on and you run and you get the magic.

He's like squatting. He's a little squatty squatty version of of Indian Mario. So Anyways, this guy has now become, you know, whatever, the third person he's got these crazy stories. He was I don't know if you know, there was like this um Sort of like an Indian nine eleven thing where there's like a terrorist attack on a hotel.

He was in that hotel un he was like in the hostage group that was there. Wow. He was also kidnapped at one point in time and taken ransom for two million dollars. They paid it and got free. And so this guy has just lived this like kind of crazy life. And even now. He's doing really well. The group's doing really well. He's third richest man on earth. There is a

set of people who are very, very skeptical about what these guys are doing because They have so much debt in their companies. Like he is basically constantly trying to acquire companies like they just bought the largest cement. Producer. In India. But they buy these companies using debt and he's got this intricate

Like set of companies And so there's a big question of like, is this all a house of cards that's gonna fall over and you're gonna see a guy go from the number three richest to like, you know, falling off the list completely? Or is he actually gonna pull this off? Because what they'll do is They'll say, Okay, the the the parent company has some profits, we'll take a loan on that. And then they take like one of the new companies public, like oh, a Donny Green Power.

And they'll take the green company public because it's got the Adani name. Stock price goes up. And then he'll invest in it from the parent company and then he'll sell those shares and then he'll borrow against the s the The stock and then he'll issue a bond and he's got like all these different debt instruments and so they have I think more debt than like any other company in India.

And now there's a question of is this all gonna fall over or is it all gonna work? It's pretty fascinating. Dude, when do do you ever feel I feel self conscious when I hear about these things because My Like My thing with business is like just the very simple of buy low, sell high, you know, like

I purchased a widget for, you know, one dollar and I put Some type of value, or I just buy tons of them and I and so I get a discount and then I sell them for like a dollar fifty and that fifty cents my profit. I use a quarter to a quarter of that to pay myself a quarter to go buy more. And like it's like a relatively like simple, straightforward process. And then I hear about like You just use the word debt instruments and how he you know, he d the like he does this thing and gets a loan across this thing and this thing. And when I hear that stuff, I just think like So

Like where's the dollar that goes into his bank account actually come from? You know what I mean? Like I I try to think about I'm like I don't understand how this person then eventually collects the money and how the people who are owed money where they got the money from and when they're gonna get paid back like Do you know what I mean? It it's like it's so complicated for me because I'm such a simpleton or Is it just

Bullshit. Dude, I don't think I was in seventh grade, my parents got me a piano teacher. And I wish that instead I just learned how to play dead instruments. Like that would have just been so much better. Than learning how to play, you know, check out the game. What do you mean a debt inference. Yeah, no shit. Where do people learn this stuff? Where do people learn this sort of financial engineering? I think that a lot of it happens if you're like on the inside. So you work at a investment bank or you work somewhere there, but like this guy didn't have a I think he hired people who who do that and they sort of

We're gonna issue this bond and we're gonna take this company public, then we're gonna like take a loan pledge the shares, we're gonna get a loan against the shares, and basically somehow one dollar of EBITDA has become eight dollars of, you know, cash flow for us. And like we gotta figure out how to do that without it all. Collapsing. But People who understand financial engineering, they have such an edge. Such an absolute edge.

But when I like originally like made some money and I remember like our bankers saying like yeah, you can borrow money now at one percent And I'm like, Yeah, I don't want to go into debt and and they'd be like, Well no, sometimes it's like it could be wise for you to do that. For example, if you have to pay taxes, I'm like why? He goes, Well, because you'd have to sell this thing, which then you'd take a like a you know, a forty percent discount on that because of taxes. And I'm like, wait, I don't understand this. Can you like lay this out? Like can you write this on a piece of paper? So like it and then my banker, Griffin, He ended up flying to New York to visit me to like He goes, dude, I just need to sit down with you so you understand this. I swear to God. I swear. I go, Why are you coming here? You got meetings? He goes, No, I'm coming to explain this to you. So he came and he explained it to me. And I Yeah, sure. Meetings. Uh I've cleared my day.

To explain the one concept of borrowing against stock. Like he I I just didn't understand it. Were you the same way where you're like, I just don't get this. I this doesn't make sense to me. You and others explained it to me, right? So like yes, it's true. I didn't understand I didn't know about it at first, and then when I knew about it I didn't understand why it was good and then somebody's like Hey, so you notice why this is amazing, right? You could either sell your stock.

Pay taxes and no longer own the stock. Or You could s keep owning the stock. Never pay the taxes, just borrow at a one percent rate against that money and like You're good.

And I was like Okay. So that's Good, right? They're like, All right, you dipshit, you didn't understand? Like let's do this again. And then steal the numbers. Yeah, I just like so these financial engineer you know where I learned a lot about this stuff is from Ben

Our Ben Wilson, his uh Podcast with Rothschild. Like I it and like I started like learning about this a little bit, but then I also learned that I think some people I don't know like what skill set it is. I do think it's rooted in just like they're just good at math and they understand, um

Just like complicated algebra, to be honest, just like exponential Exponential. Like th that that that's a concept that's like it sounds like I'm joking, but that's actually quite hard to understand. Like to understand what is seven percent or ten percent or twelve percent growth. for fifty periods, what's that actually look like? Like I remember listening to this podcast. I was like, Oh, you're just like just like LeBron is just taller and can dunk better.

Doesn't matter what I do, like there's some people that are just better at this. And I don't know what that skill set is, but there is something there there. It's like you're just you're better than me. Well, I think they just get curious about that thing. Which most of us who are like builders, makers, entrepreneurs Yeah, like the stereotype about let's say um You know

Who cares? What you know, corporate structure. Uh, bookkeeping, taxes, like you know, whatever. d raising debt. That wasn't never the reason I got into business. That's not what I found interesting at the time. I was like you. It's like oh we could buy this thing for X and sell it for Y. You know, that that's that's the game plan, or we can make this thing. That doesn't exist, then wow, look how cool it is, look how it works.

That was always more fun and it's just like a level up pr a progression in the game to be able to understand. How do I A keep more money than I make? And B, how do we leverage money so that we could do more interesting things, you know, in a less diluted way? So yeah so I I I think these people are amazing, you know, like Xavier who who runs Enduring Ventures. He told me this once, he's just he was just like you know

If I died I'd be reincarnated as a CFO, not a CEO. And I was like it was like the weirdest brag I'd ever heard. I was I never he like bragging about wanting to be a CFO and I was like, What do you mean? He's like He's like, I don't know, I just really like learning about how to be efficient and smart. on this like financial like financial engineering. And he had done, you know, real engineering before that. He built like basically like

He's like so he built a solar company in in Africa, the largest solar company in Africa. So funny that he's interested in that stuff, though. He's like a hippie. He's totally totally a hippie, right? He he did that because he's like Do there's people suffering in Africa, like I wanna Like

That seems like the problem to go fix. But then along the way he's like All right, well How do I create you know, how do I Finance all of these solar panels and battery packs. without having to go raise venture capital. And so in order to do that, like the necessary evil was he'll needed to learn how to access cheap debt.

He needed l learn how to like issue debt and underwrite for other people because what he did was he was like, You know, these people Should basically they don't have The twenty one dollars to buy the solar panel that goes on top of their house. That's gonna power their fridge. And like if they don't have a fridge, their life really is tough and they need this.

But they can't afford the twenty one dollars, so like let's just do it at four dollars a month or whatever and like I will underwrite a loan against There Like income and it's like how do you underwrite a loan for somebody who doesn't even have electricity in their house? He would figure these things out.

And so I think it became a necessary evil and something he got fascinated with. And so now they're doing this whole holding company. And so he does this this one thread he did went viral, which was like how to have a holding company like Warren Buffett. And basically like, you know, make a massive amount of money, pay as little tax as you need to. And like, you know, have have more and more money to do acquisitions as you go.

And he basically outlines Warren Buffett's corporate structure. And why that's at why that's advantageous. And uh, you know, I read it and I still only understand twenty five percent of it. But I'm just glad that there's people like that that I can go to whenever I have a question. Dude, that's great. Well, I like this guy. Got him. I'm gonna I wanna learn more about him. You have more on him, or you want me to go?

Uh I have another person like this. I have another person and idea like this. Okay, so now let's switch gears. Another creative Titan. That we talked about. Mr Beast. So we hung out with Mr Beast. I don't know if you guys have are sick of us talking about that yet, but you know Uh

Producer Ben is literally sitting here in a Mr. Beast uh T shirt. So, you know He's a fan. Uh By the way that's good, Ben, because you know, when when we were sitting in that meeting and they brought in the swag Uh Jimmy, who who is Mr. Beast he goes he goes

Oh man, they're not like kids, dude. They don't need they don't need the stuff. Like, you know they're not gonna be'cause the guy came in and was like, Guys, I got treats for you and he's like had a bunch of swag and nobody moved. And Mr. Jimmy was just like oh no, they don't they don't care about this stuff, man. They're they're they're adults. And then like all of us were like the fuck you talk about, dude. And like we're just like I just like r I literally rolled my chair over to him like You know, like a kid, I'm like, Whee! I like just rolled my rolling chair over to that part of the table because it was like a long boardroom. And I was just like

I'm going to get some swag and I went and got it. And the other guy's like, I got kids, man. I got they're gonna need the if I don't bring back swag, they're gonna be pissed. And so and now Ben is wearing his. Damn, I Jimmy drove me like when we were going to the I Took a ride with him and I found that shirt that you're wearing, Ben, in the back of his car, and I just go, I'm fucking taking this. He's got tons of them. So I stole mine from him. I I w I didn't know that we had the opportunity to take it like ethically. Never considered that. Um So Jimmy, okay so

I wanted to bring something up that he had talked about that we didn't mention on the podcast, which to me is The most interesting business That this guy has. You might be thinking, is the most interesting business his YouTube channel? No. Is it his chocolate company feast named Feestables?

No. Is it his Drop shipping burger company is cloud kitchen. Called Mr. Beastberger. No.

Do you know which one I'm gonna talk about? Do either of you guys know? Give me uh Sam, do you know which one I'm gonna talk about? I think. Ben, do you have any idea which one I I might be referring to? Uh well. Uh no, but are you gonna talk about his

Mm-hmm. Did you guys see his restaurant just open? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But let's talk about this other thing first. Okay, okay, no, I don't know you know. I'm I'm like I wrote down what I think it is and then you you say it's better. It's his try kind of translation internationalization company.

Translation. Sam got it. There it is. This idea is amazing. So When we're sitting there, he's like, Yeah, I got basically whatever the number one, number two, whatever, biggest channel in in America. And he's like pulling up his like YouTube stats on he's like airplane Onto the TV like his YouTube stat. And then he goes, um

I also have this channel in Portugu uh you know this my Portuguese channel is growing really fast. And he sh puts up a video, it's got twenty million views in Brazil. And I was like and it it starts talking and all of a sudden he's talking in fluent Portuguese. I was like What is this? He's like, Oh yeah.

Like AI? No, so what they did was they were like look One of the things we we already put a million and a half dollars into this video where I built this chocolate factory and I'm gonna give it away to one of these people. How do we get more juice out of that fruit? And so what they realized was we can go international into markets where YouTube is huge, like Brazil. Um, Brazil's got this massive population, it's huge on YouTube.

And they don't have content like Mr. Beast is doing. Like he's ahead of the game for the US. He's light years ahead of the game. For like Brazil or the Philippines or different places like this. And so but the challenge is it's a language challenge. So what they did was they went they basically hired somebody

to create a YouTube channel that they said, hey, you're gonna be our YouTube channel manager. for this country. You're the country manager for Brazil. You gotta have our Twitter, our TikTok, our YouTube, all of it. Um you know, Mr. Beast Brazil or whatever it's called. Then secondly, we're gonna when we have a video here, you need to get it translated.

by a local like a like a dubbing service. So like a local translator. And I want it translated, I want the description translated, I want uh all of it done. And then you upload it there, you respond to the comments, you manage that community, all of that good stuff. And what they did was they would not like they didn't just go get like, you know, some random crappy person on Fiverr to do it. They got like

The guy who dubbed Spider Man And in Brazil, they got him to do the voice acting for this. They paid him a lot of money. They paid him like a couple hundred grand. And I was like, I feel like you didn't need to do that. You could have just got anybody and he's like Check this out. Like

Basically, you don't know shit about shit, Sean. And so the he goes to the comments and every comment is Oh my God, Mr. Beast is Spider-Man. Like they just thought he must be that guy. Like that's him. That's that voice I recognize. And so we got like all this extra, you know, social juice. It was a little more remarkable. And again, back to our principle from last podcast, which is Just do the doper thing. Just Do the dope shit instead of the lame shit. Like what's cooler? The cheaper guy from Fiverr or

All right, you paid a hundred grand or whatever, you got Spider Man to do it. It's like Of course, of course. What what am I thinking? And so That's the way. When I listen to audio books, like on Audible I Every if I if I see a famous person's the author or the narrator rather, I listen to it. So like I'm listening to Huckleberry Finn. Not that I really care about Huckleberry Finn, but Nick Alferman is the narrator.

You know, the guy from community. Uh, you know who that is? He's like yeah. Is he the main guy in the community? Yeah, Ron Swanson. He plays like an angry, like white country guy. Or like it'll be another guy. Like it'll be just like whenever I see an author who I re uh a narrator, if I recognize our famous person, I listen to it. So Tom Hanks doing DaVinci Code. I didn't really even want to do Da Vinci Code by Tom Hanks. So like the whole narrator thing, yeah, that's pretty sick. I'm on board with that. I can find this client info.

Have you heard of HubSpot? HubSpot is a CRM platform, so it shares its data across every application. Every team can stay aligned. No out-of-sync spreadsheets or dueling databases. HubSpot, grow better. So so basically and what he's done is he's like, Cool, now That's okay, so he was doing that for himself. So he's like, Oh good, I'm I'm blowing up in Romania. I'm blowing up in the Philippines, I'm blowing up in Brazil, I'm blowing up everywhere. He's like, I already did eighty percent of the work. It's that last twenty that is foreign to me, feels feels like a lot of work, but all I can hire the people to do this.

But the smart part was he's like this is not just A way for me to expand my brand, that's already a smart business move. He then created this as a service. For other big YouTubers. So now if you're whoever, you know, you're Arak or you're you're who you know, some yes theory or something like that.

Right. You could basically just use his service. He'll just go to you and be like, Hey, do you want to be big in Brazil? We'll just do all the work for you. And like we'll keep like thirty percent of their ad revenue. And they're like that's crazy. Okay. Yeah, like I'm not gonna hire I'm not gonna go and do this interview process to hire all these people and figure it out and manage this all myself. That's kinda inefficient. But what he can do is like he can have one team In Brazil, that's gonna manage

fifteen YouTubers channels there. And so I think this is one of the smartest businesses that he has. I think it's gonna be one of the most successful. It's gonna be pure profit, essentially. And um I think he's got the distribution locked down'cause If he goes to any YouTuber and explains

Hey, here's what I'm doing, and you get access to my machine. They're all gonna say yes. And it's an it's a good idea for them. It's a win-win for them because they're just not gonna capture this extra value. Um And so he's doing this and it's just another example of

Turning a cost center into a profit center. And I actually want to talk about some examples of those. So basically Things where Y th this would normally just be a cost to him to run this to have all these people on staff.

But once he turns it into a service for other YouTubers. Now it becomes a profit center. And so there are a bunch of exactly. The chocolate that he had and I was like, Well, you know, like A It's good, but I don't it's not like that different than any other chocolate that I've had in B It kinda sucks that I've gotta feel bad about myself if I consume a lot of your product.

And see, it's only like forty it was forty dollars, I think, for a box. Like it's hard to build a big business forty dollars a pop. You know what I'm saying? At least when you're not if you're you gotta be in Walmart or something. Yeah, which I'm sure he could do also. Like uh to Ben's point, he He opened up a brick and mortar location for his burger joint and normally you're like, Ah, you know.

Opening up a restaurant in a mall, maybe not the best idea. And then he like posts this video, there's like literally I don't know. fifty thousand people in the mall like lined up. It was like People were lined up. Up and down each concourse just like you know the the m the restaurants on floor one or whatever, like people were on floor four.

Just lined up in this line and it was insane. So you know, this guy's got pretty massive pull. So what are the other examples of of turning listeners in a yeah, so the first one that came to mind for me was AWS. So AWS today is basically Amazon. Amazon's Most of its profits come from AWS. And A AWS is basically when Amazon had to have a really robust

Set of servers to run their own website. And then they were like Hey, the way we use this kind of like server infrastructure and it's just like this big expense for us to have the server farm. What if we just rented this out to other companies who want to have like Amazon level servers?

without having to go rack their own servers in some data center. And that became AWS, and basically AWS spits off billions and billions in profit now. What started as what would have been a billion dollar loss. And so you know, that's a huge swing. But I have some others uh that I wanna explain to you. So Uh Michael Gurdley who came on the pod, he goes

My favorite is Um, this company called Freight Alley, they did what what HubSpot kinda did with the hustle. They basically have this thing called freight waves, which is freight waves is basically a um Media company. And Freight Alley is the

Like The SaaS company. So basically they're a SaaS company. I created a media arm. That goes and uh it normally a media companies, you know, has expenses, but they turn it into a profit center basically that acquires customers. for the SaaS business at a negative customer acquisition cost. So the media company is profitable and brings in

customers to their own SAS uh you know, at the bottom of the funnel. So that's one example. Not exactly the full thing, but another guy. The guy who started that company, his name's Craig. I've hung out with him a bit. He j um bought a big piece of property in Tennessee and he's the one who's turning it into like an airport. It's like a country club, but instead of a golf course, there's an airport. So he's selling he bought a huge plot of land, now he's sub selling or he's selling smaller plots of land and there's gonna be an airplane strip and a hangar.

that everyone has access to. So if you're a flying enthusiast, you buy a home there and you can use this. And he bought A magazine, I think it was called airplane.com or something like that. He bought a magazine and he's like, I'm gonna buy a magazine and Do the same thing that I did, but instead of software, we're gonna do it with these houses. Wow.

That's that's it's amazing. Another um another example, so uh Any DC company that eventually takes their own warehouse and starts fulfilling for other customers, so they turn their own warehouse Which is a cost for them for fulfillment. into a profit center because they're doing fulfillment for themselves and others. Very similar to to AWS.

Okay, here's another one. Uh this guy George on Twitter just sent me this. He goes Ford decided to own the timber supply for their vehicles. So there was lots of wood in the early cars. Yeah. They end up with baby. They ended up with so much leftover wood, they started selling charcoal, and that's Kingsford. Charcoal. That's my favorite, man. That's my favorite story.

That's a that's kind of amazing. I didn't know that. Uh is there more to know about that or do did we kinda nail it there? No, you nailed it. So basically they were so Ford was making frame car frames and they had to burn a whole lot of wood in order to, you know, bend the steel or do whatever they had to do. And they had all this leftover charred wood, and they're like, What do we do with this? And I think it was Henry Ford's idea. I forget exactly whose idea. But he goes, Hey, let's let's start selling this. Let's make something out of this. And that's where it kinda came from. There's a bunch of entrepreneurs that have kind of like done things like this. Uh Standard Oil did something like this where they're like This gets more complicated and is less interesting, but like hey, this

off put of kerosene is like this weird, like fluid that's like really greasy. Is there anything we could do with that? And like W D forty or something like that. Like they've like there's like stories like that with with standard oil as well. And so here's a couple others. So Foursquare, Foursquare had an API for businesses'cause they needed all this data. About businesses, where they're located, all that stuff.

And they needed that for to power their own four square app. And forceware kinda went up and this hype cycle then went down many years, sort of forgotten, sort of written off. But a new CEO joined and almost oriented the company around this. It was like look. The more valuable thing is not people using Foursquare the app and playing the game. It's all the data we've collected. about businesses where they're located with like hyper precision.

And so we actually just need to make that API available to everybody. And they productize the API and they make, I think, more money off the API. I think they make more money off the API than they do. off the core app at this point. Um, so so I think that's uh that's another great example of this. Amazon has a bunch, like Amazon was a bookseller. Right. So their main cost of goods sold was their books.

But then they create Kindle. And Kindle self and the self publishing business and the public and and all that. And so now Kindle itself became a profit center. What so what used to be a cost, which was selling books, now they sell eBooks that they kinda own. And um you know they turn that a profit. Same thing with payments, right? Amazon had to pay a a merchant like a fee every time they processed a payment.

So they created their own payment software, Amazon called Amazon Payments. And now like you know For our e com store, I just went I I was like, I think we take Amazon payments. Where does that money go? And I went and found an account w we have with Amazon payments. I had like Four hundred grand sitting in it. 'Cause we use that service, Amazon Payments, to take payments for somebody who wants to pay with Amazon.

And so they turned it into a profit center along the way. That's crazy. Another one is um Slack. So Slack started out as a game. And when they were working on their game

They it it wasn't actually doing that well, but they created a way in order to communicate effectively with their with their co workers and they said, Ah, fuck this game. This thing's actually way cooler. Let's actually turn this internal tool into a uh a proper tool. We thought about doing that. So here's but here's the problem with this. This all sounds sick. A lot of people Uh say, Yeah, let's do this. And so a lot of publishers are doing this. And so they are like let's sell our CMS. So BuzzFeed, Vox.

Washington Post, I forget who else. It's like they build these Custom website builders and they say, Let's sell this. And I think oftentimes it's a distraction and they always say, Well, Amazon did it. And I looked into this. Amazon did launch AWS.

Uh pretty early on. But do you know how many employees they had when they did it? How many total employees are on AWS? Yeah, total employees. There's about five thousand. So they were already a multi-billion dollar company with and so they the way the story is told is like oh they're just this little guy doing No, they had about five thousand people when they launched AWS. Like it was like a you know, it was a it was a thing.

It wasn't just like a scrappy startup. And a lot of times people like will say, Well, well, let's also sell this. It's like dog, we've got eight people working here. Like who's gonna do this? Uh so that's always like I've always been conflicted with this strategy. Yeah, that's uh that's true. Uh you guys considered it you would have done it for what? Is it your

Um our email sending platform. So like we built our own for a little while and then we made it really easy. So like if it it so basically hypothetically, which there aren't that many people doing this, if you had a daily email, it was really easy for you to talk to your advertiser, make the ad and insert into the thing, have them approve it. And like it was simple and easy to use. But the problem is is like There are not that many people doing it. You know what I mean?

And beeh. Well there weren't then, but like Beehive basically does that now. And they're actually growing pretty well. Well Maybe I could have been wrong, but I don't think I'm gonna end up being wrong. I think that I think that I'm not convinced that what they're doing

Th at least m uh ads for a daily email, that business I don't think will be ever be that particularly big. And beehive. So Beehive is kinda like substack. Uh so it's these services that you get subscribers and they take a small amount of revenue based off of how much you're making from subscriptions or You just pay them like a fee on how many subscribers you have. Do you think that some of those businesses actually can become huge venture back size companies?

So I just invested in Behive, actually. Initially I didn't invest because I was like, uh, I don't know how big this gets. And then two things sort of changed my mind. The first is Every time I needed something for Beehive, the founder was an absolute animal on my request, like because we use it for Milk Road. So yeah, he's great. His name's Tyler. He's awesome. Tyler was she's like

It's already on a r like he'd be like it's already on a roadmap. The question I have is A or B, there's like nuance about it that shows he's been thinking about this noodling on it. And then he'd be like When do you need this buy?'Cause normally like it's scheduled to be out in three weeks. But if you need three days, like you know The weekend exists, I might be able to do you know whatever. So he was able to like

Rip off feature after feature after feature that we needed. And Everything that was like you're like, Hey, we have this question. It's like him and his team would dig in. So he so I saw that he kinda had that grit that you like in an entrepreneur. So I got to basically present the entrepreneur. Which I normally don't get to do with most investments. Um, you know, with most investments, you meet them, you do a call with them, they say all the right things, they send you the deck, you look at it, you kick you look at the product and like you gotta make an educated guess at that point. You don't get to spend

months working with the actual entrepreneur as a customer and see how quick they are with features, how how fast they're responding, the quality of the product, all that good stuff. So so that was the first reason. The second reason was I've come to realise that The The the best investments I've made have been ones where

What looks like a small market, what looks niche. turns out to not be me. So we got acquired by Twitch in our last company. Which was a kind of the quintessential example of this, right? Like Yeah, but like how many people are gonna watch other people play video games on the internet? Like how many people are gonna stream themselves playing a video game and how many people wanna watch that?

Looked niche. And turned out to be a massive behavior. Um this is also true with like, you know, uh now Shopify seems really obvious. I remember talking to The V C who led Shopify's early rounds, uh, you know, maybe six, seven years ago.

And Shopify at that point was still like legit, but it's not what it is today. It's not like seen as it is today as like one of the blue blue chip startups. And it was the same thing. It was like okay, you know, like just like Etsy, like, you know, how big do these actually get? These kind of like indie maker seller type things. Isn't Amazon and big brands just gonna like dominate this? Like How many mom and pop are there gonna be on the internet that can actually do this well and

How much do I remember that. I remember. Tim Ferris invested in Shopify and he was talking about it and I was like Shopify? That's so silly. Like w you know, this thing exists, this exists, this exists. Why don't you just use this thing? And like You know I remember like I I forget what those were. Like big commerce. Do you remember Big Commerce? Yeah, there's Big Commerce, there's Woo Commerce, there's Magento. There was all these and so that was actually the bigger problem, which is

If you looked at the existing ones that had been around for like ten years and they were kind of like Like those are pretty like Uh they're cheaper. They're harder to they're more flexible, but they're way harder to use. And they were kind of like from a different era. So they kind of like peaked at a certain point. And you look at those

Well they're back then. Yeah, you're like how big Does this get look, that's how big it gets. Not very big. And the same thing happened with Airbnb. I remember when Airbnb was like coming out and it was like oh well It's couch surfing. But better, right? Like I don't know if people remember, Couchsurfing dot com was like

One of the early Oh, that's a cool idea, but it never made a bunch of money, never got huge'cause again How many people really want to go Live of sleep on a you know, someone's couch or extra bedroom. In uh in some city. Okay, yeah, it's just kind of vagabond hippie traveling shit, but like that's not mainstream. And so if you looked at cr couch surfing to see how big Airbnb could get, you're like, Well, sit very, very similar idea, been around for longer.

Seems to have plateaued around this size, not that big. And like you would have been wrong. And so I guess I've kind of learned that like The absolute biggest wins adventure. Come when you Find something non obvious. And the non obvious t the non obvious to me typically is like

Just fundamentally like product categories or markets people aren't going after, or markets that other people think are small that actually are going to turn out to be very big. There's this really great story with Sam Altman, who at the time was the president of W uh What's it called? Y combinator. And Brian Chusky and Brian Chusky is getting or maybe he he was just worked at w Y Combinator and Brian Cheske in two thousand and

must have been two thousand eleven, was getting ready to pitch, you know, so why C You go through this eight or twelve week incubator. At the end you pitch a bunch of venture capitalists and Y C helps you a bunch of ways, including getting your pitch right. Brian Cheske's with Sam going over his pitch. Because This company one day is gonna make a hundred million dollars a year.

And Sam was like Brian, like Can you just do me a favor? Anywhere in this presentation where you have like a number Can you do me a favor and add a zero behind it at the end of it? He goes, change all the M's to B's. Investors Yeah, he goes, anything that you have an M

I wanna see a B. Change it all. And I I don't remember exactly how the story goes, but it was paraphrased in such words like Brian goes like But That's lying. Like there's no way that we're gonna do that. Like it's just impossible. There it w no one has done this before. He goes

Yeah, but you know, it seems like a big market and here's my reasoning, like logically it makes sense. There's just many people who stay at hotels, like of course you can do this. I mean, someone can do it, I bet. And she'll just do me a favor and change all those M's to B's. And even Brian Cheskey didn't believe it. And there's another story, by the way, where I remember um What was uh Amazon's first V C? Was it Madonna? Is that what it's called? Madonna? It's like it looks like the word Madonna. They're based up in Seattle. And uh he's pitching and I listened to a podcast with the guy he pitched.

And the guy he pitched. Tells the story of Bezos saying, Like, look If we If we get our act together and we make this work, I think we're gonna make like a hundred million bucks a year. in like the next five or ten years.

Like that was his pitch, is like that's how big I think we're gonna get. And the guy was like Ah, it needs to get a lot bigger than that, but whatever, you you seem really competent. So it's just proof that like even the people starting things sometimes also are like, I don't know how big this can get. I don't I don't know if this if this is gonna work out. Yeah, like there's that clip of Mark Zuckerberg talking out of college. And he's like doing a uh interview, a campus interview. Like, hey, we're here with the campus report and we have

Mark Zuckerberg, the founder of the Facebook.com Uh, which is blowing up around campus. People really like your website, Mark. Um You know, and he's like he's basically he's wearing basketball shorts, he's got a red solo cup he's drinking out of. Yes. And he's just sitting there and they're like, So you've expanded to like whatever, seven colleges And where you're gonna go from here, you're gonna end up going into high schools or you know, you're gonna how big can this get? He's like

Oh, I don't know. Like right now it's Facebook is cool. Like it's cool for colleges, really really useful and Sometimes if you try to make something too big, like it it loses what makes it cool. Like maybe it doesn't like Why does it have to be bigger? And maybe it doesn't have to be bigger. He says that.

And then like, you know, sure enough. Fast forward ten years. He's like, We need to launch a satellite to India. To give these rural villagers internet so they can users the Facebook. Yeah, we need more. And so you know he turns into an absolute animal. By the way. This MMA clip of Zuck?

Awesome. Awesome! He killed it! He killed it! He killed it. So for the background on this Uh But Zuck went on Rogan.

And talk about a bunch of stuff. It was it was uh actually a pretty good interview, I think. Zuck actually kinda redeemed himself a bit. But uh in in part of the interview, Zuck said, I've been training MMA and people are like Afterwards. Yeah, right. Okay, nerd. He posts this video of him training. He looks really good. Way faster than I thought he was gonna be like Fighting. He was fighting. The fact that he does this

It's just like I uh basically this was my tipping point. I already liked Zuck. But now I'm Team Zuck. What There's not a lot of us here.

Right, we we can't even play a p game of pick of basketball. There's four of us on Teams. We're just still looking for a fifth. And And somebody tweeted this out. They were they they go. Jack Dorsey. Um You know, Jack Dorsey.

Oh. Hasn't worked in ten years. Uh constantly like constantly meditating Uh you know, dating different models, no family. Tries to run multiple companies at once, fails.

Uh Twitter never makes anybody blah blah blah. Zuck. B you know, begrudgingly runs a trillion dollar empire. Yeah, faithfully m monogamous. Uh great dad.

uh trains MMA. Like all these like it was like Jack Dorski doesn't work out. It's like Zuck trains MMA. And it just like highlights like, you know Basically like Why does everybody hate this guy? Again, like what has this guy done? Like You know

It's like no, dude. He built basically the modern telephone, and you're pissed that some people make phone calls that you don't like. That's that's basically what happens on Facebook, is that he built the app everybody uses to communicate everything, stupid or amazing. And sure enough, some percentage of that is not content you like. And is not controllable. And the guys literally built like it's yeah, it was at a trillion dollars at a point in time. He's built a trillion dollar company

And he just keeps running it and he keeps trying to make it better and he keeps trying to push the envelope and he keeps trying to make like better and better products and services. And do you think he really cares? About like do you think he sits there being like Ah, I wanna influence the election, but no, that's like Yeah, that's the that's a pain in the ass he's trying to deal with. It's not like his agenda. People make him out to be like this evil guy, and it's like Dude people don't like him'cause he's awkward.

All right, you're you're a bully if you don't like him because he's a hair. You know, like think about who you are if you don't like Mark Zuckerberg. You're a fucking bully. You just think he's awkward and you that's how you judge him. Like, screw you, man. The guy's awkward. We should do we should do like an entire episode about this because there was one beautiful line that he said. So Rogan was like Um Look, like you had these Russians doing this and influencing the election, and then the Hunter Biden story story came out and you guys like took it down and you told them it wasn't allowed and then and like Rogan was like uh criticizing him or at least voicing all the criticisms that Facebook had and Marco's um

Yeah, look like How would you handle that situation? And r and love to see you do it. I don't know. And he and Zach's like

Yeah, we didn't die there. And so our reasoning was like we like took down the hunter like I don't even remember how he explained. He's like, Well our reasoning was this, this and this. Well he was like Did the FBI came to us, told us there's about to be a story That could be massive misinformation and go viral. We just basically they just got their wrists slapped because They previously let other information spread too fast that they said, You should have known that was fake news. You should have stopped it.

So now the FBI comes to you and says there's about to be A d a dump of fake news that's gonna go viral. So what do they do? They're like, Okay, we shouldn't just like st I guess we shouldn't block the news, but maybe we should like suppress it in the news feed so that it doesn't go super viral because of you know isn't that what we just got in trouble for? And like he didn't say all this, but like it's obvious. This is obviously what what would you do? The FBI comes to you and says it's about to be a misinformation leak.

And then it It comes out and sure enough it starts going viral and you have to decide, do we just let this take over the platform and like Oops, we did it again. Or like, should we play it safe and like not let this spread like wildfire until we can fact check this and see if this is real or not? And like By the time it does.

one side, the left or right is gonna be mad at you. And it's like If you just think about the shit it's like The person Who in twenty sixteen was like

The election was rigged! The Russians manipulated the election! Then he fast forward to twenty twenty, Biden wins and then the the right is now like The election was rigged, Biden was counting votes that didn't count, you know, like It's like they're both they just switched. You're the same you're the same dude on either side of the aisle. Like don't you realize like you're it's like the Spider Man meme, they're pointing at each other. Yeah. But it's the same thing over and over and over again. It's like

Um You know. She's got, you know, the bad thing on her server. It's like He's got the documents in Mar-a-Lago! And it's like they just keep doing this on you know left left and right. How is a

communication platform supposed to win. Because literally no matter what you do, one side is gonna think you're being completely unfair over the other. There's no there's no way to be tredibly neutral. That is such a good answer and he like humanized himself so much there and he goes We we our reasoning was and he is that exactly what you said about the FI doing the And this is what we thought seemed right at the time. W how would you have handled that, Joe?

And J and Joe was like Well, that's a good question. I guess I would call someone who I think knows the answer and just talk and listen to him. He goes, Yeah, that's what we did. You know, we called these people, we talked to them, and this is the best that we did. And Could it have been wrong? Maybe, but like, you know, we don't really know the right answer. And it kinda I realized like

Oh wow, that's Guys, Zuck. He's Thirty eight years old? Thirty six years old? Like he's in his thir his mid thirties. Been doing this since he was twenty one.

Like he's just making it up and trying uh to make some g s good decisions along the way. Is he maybe a little Evil. Maybe, but we all got a little bit of us in that we all have a little bit of that. And like he's mostly doing a good job. And it just he did a really good that tur that question of well, how would you have handled it? That was such a beautiful way because it was like oh you're

You're fallible. You're just like me, you know? Like we're not that different. Is he a ruthless competitor in the sport of business? Sure. I wouldn't expect somebody who's number one in their game to not be a Rislist competitor at their game. Like I wouldn't expect them to be a softy who who doesn't care or you know what I mean? Like it's it's it's insane to me that people hold this like this crazy standard. Other reasons I'm team suck. So

You know about his like once a year missions that he does? Yeah, like one year it was like travel the country in an R V Uh yeah, so he did he that was like when it was like election time. He's like I need to I don't know I need to meet Middle America. Uh I'm going to like, you know I will visit places with Walmart's like, you know, that's like his mission for the year that yeah. Dude that I respect when people do that so much. I was watching this music video with Mike Posner. You know Mike Posner and you probably love to do. Yeah. You know how we walked across the country?

Yeah, so he like followed it. Yeah. Yeah, it was awesome. He got bit by a rattlesnake. Yeah, and he like had he got bit by a rattlesnake and he had to go home for two weeks and learn to walk again, and then he shipped right back out to where he was and he went to You know, he's like this guy who you imagine as being this like California cool kid guy or a New York cool kid guy and he ends up walking the country and he's like I walked around places but confederate flags. I went to like rural Kansas. I went everywhere and I saw America and I realized that like I don't know shit about America. These people are a lot different than I thought and it was really nice to get to know like other types of people. I love

When people do that. And so I'm team Zuck a little bit because he did that. He so he did that, but the first ones he did, I feel like were things that he was actually just self interested in. So he um I remember one of his first ones was that he was going to only E m if he was gonna eat meat, it had to be meat that he had personally

Hunted? So he's like I've never hunted I think he had like never hunted before and he's like I don't really know where my food comes from or like what goes into this showing up on my plate. And I wanna like actually like with my hands, I wanna experience this entire process. So we had to Hunt it. He had to like prep it or kill like you know, clean it or whatever and cook it and then eat it. And so that's what he did for one year. One year he was just like

I want to learn Mandarin. I think Facebook really wanted to go into China. So he's like He showed up in China to give a talk. He did the whole thing in Mandarin and surprised the shit out of the whole crowd. They were like It was like, you know, the scene in Eight Mile where he's going off on in the rap battle. It was like the whole crowd was like oh what's going on? Like he's just speaking fluent mandarin with like the proper tone and like Dude, what a machine to in his like spare time just pick up these hobbies and then do them and now he's doing

Like MMA. And Bology, who's a you know a friend of ours, he he he tweeted this out, he goes It has begun. I forgot who he said. He goes first uh Great line. It has begun. We could say that for so many things. That's a beautiful those are beautiful first words of any sentence.

He called it uh he goes first First. Bezos now zuck. I'm seeing it across the board. Tech people starting to seriously lift and train. Testosterone replacement therapy, quantified self, optimal diet.

Diet. Eventually this will be productized for all. But transhumanism starts With personal chatification. So he calls it. Personal chatification. Turning yourself into an absolute chad. And I know you w I don't know if you saw this tweet or not, but every word of this, you know, you were just doing the The the you're at the black church saying, you know, you're the gospel, the choir of Danda Academy is singing and you're like, Amen to this, right? Like'cause you've been doing this, right? You've been doing your own chatification. I've been becoming chat, and you want to know something?

It is Awesome. It is so awesome. I I've influenced you a little bit to you've slowly become into it. It's the way to live, man. Yeah, I'm not like a Chad. I'm like a um like a Charles right now. Like I didn't even come a Chad. I'm just I'm just slowly working. I'm like a Brett trying to get trying to get to Chad right now. Dude, just like lifting this sounds so I don't care how it sounds. It is what it is.

Lifting heavy weight. And then just like eating meat and vegetables. I just feel happy. I feel good about my life and I look at old pictures of us when we were recording the podcast at my office. And my face was so much more round. And I'm disgusted.

Like you are such a Fucking filthy animal. You are filthy. You are a horrible human being. And I look at myself, it has made me so much happier. And like I'm I'm I'm pumped that the nerds are finding out about it. Yeah, I think Bology lifts I think he power lifts as well. So uh so yeah, there's Just like there's so much research that shows

It's like being stronger, it just make uh they say uh you know, a strong body, a strong mind. Like when getting stronger, uh like there's so many benefits to living a longer life. Uh what's his name? What's the what's the guy we like, the hunk scientist? Uh Huberman? Yeah, Huberman. Don't act like you don't know. For the record, we never have referred to him like that in private, which is why I was confused. You acting like we always call him the hunk scientist in text message. Dude, I have a friend that like went and got in a coal plunge with him and he goes He's ripped. Like he's jacked. And I'm like, Yeah, of course. Like how close together were they? That's a new protocol. You gotta sit on top of one another and extend That's what he's telling people. He's like uh Hey, uh you know if you uh sit right here on my lap, uh you're gonna live like an extra hour. But my dude, my friend did a thing with him and he goes, he's just jacked.

And uh Uh I I don't even remember how we start talking about this, but he he he did a a podcast the other day and he talked about like living longer and he's like, Yeah, lift weights and go for runs and you'll and you'll live longer. So I'm happy to probably do this stuff. My trainer has me doing this stuff called myofacial car myofascial release or something like that. Do you do this? Like a m like a massage? It's basically foam rolling but on steroids. I go to a doctor two days a week and get it done on my calves. Yeah, I knew I knew you would do this as a per as a as a

Full Chad. You you of course uh are like you know. All the way in on this. It's basically he has these like b like these trigger point balls and like these like different like Torture devices, I'll call them. And he's like, All right, so

I've done foam rolling before. It it's okay. It's kinda boring, a little bit painful. Um, not the most fun thing in the world. And you know, it was always recommended to me, like, hey, just you know, you should foam roll tomorrow morning or tonight, you know, that'll help you with your soreness. I was like, Yeah, you know. Sure.

Right after I eat my broccoli and asparagus and like, you know, you know, say my prayers and get to bed by nine PM. Like of course, yeah, I'll also foam roll. Why not? Add it to the other list of shit I'm not gonna do that I shouldn't do. And so With this, we do uh we now he got me to do it, he's like The first twenty five minutes of every workout we're doing this. So he'll be like all right, find this spot like in your hip flexor. And take this like rock hard ball and you're just gonna like put all your body weight on that thing and wherever it feels most painful.

That's the spot. I'm like, Oh my God. He's like Yeah, he's like if uh he'll hear hear me like basically wincing and groaning in pain. And he's like Alright, cool. Just you found it. Now stay there for three and a half minutes. And I'm like, three and a half minutes And so this has turned out to be I but I bring this up because A, I find it interesting. I I think There's a lot of fitness movements that have a business

like angle to them. And I feel like you've been ahead of the curve on a lot of this. Like Yeah, you were on ATG or the kind of like knees over toes stuff before most people And in general, like what what do you call it? Movement therapy or something like that? Movement. Yeah, mobility. Mobility training.

Like I think this is also like an area where the the puck is going and more people are gonna be interested in you feel amazing as soon as it's done, right? Like you feel absolutely amazing. Uh when it's done. But uh The part of it that I find interesting is basically I

For me, working out is not like I want to get as jacked and shredded as possible. It's basically like I want a part of my day where I'm not at my computer, sitting down, I'm not on my phone, I'm not even thinking about work. And I know that could be other things, it could be meditation or whatever, but like A way a way more achievable form of medica meditation for me is exercise. exercise where I basically I'm only focused on the thing that's right in front of me, like being absolutely present because there's like

a giant weight that's about to fall on my face or hurt I'll hurt my shoulder, or I'll I'll injure myself or I'm like In extreme pain doing this like trigger point, massage, or whatever. And I'm not I can't go anywhere else. I can't think about the past. I can't fantasize about the future. I can't worry about what notification just buzzed on my phone. And I'm just like out of it for at least one hour a day. And for me, that became the real like benefits of this.

More than like oh, you know, I'm getting more fit or I have more energy or whatever. It's like It forces me to do that, like The like the real version of meditation. So th that's what I like about it the most. Dude, I told you what Scott Galloway said, right? No, what did it say?

The whole point he said this in an interview and I thought it was amazing as as like I've been trying to say that, but you just said it so much better. He said in the interview with Ryan Holiday, he goes basically I think the whole like If you are not Fit enough.

That you can Kill and eat. Most people in the room. Or outrun them.

then you have a problem and you should like work to you should he's like I pretty much just exercise just so I can kill and eat most people in a room or just be able to outrun them. And he said that and I was like, Oh yeah, that's actually that's the way to go. That's the way to live. No, that is so stupid. That's the part where I'm like, Okay, I don't even want to be a part of this movement anymore. Like Why is that? Uh w the how is that even relevant? That's like saying, you know I wanna be fast in case an asteroid's gonna hit the earth and I gotta get out of the way. It's like what what are you talking about? What is this scenario where you need to eat and kill or run away from everybody in the room? Has this ever entire lifetime happened? That's that's at all not like it's like it it's more like why does a car need to go 120 miles an hour when the speed limit's sixty?

Like it just doesn't because it's uh just it doesn't know, but it's awesome that it does. And because it can, that makes it just a little bit cooler. Are you ever gonna drive a hundred and sixty miles an hour? No, of course not. But like I still want that Ferrari just'cause I want to know I can do it and like the act of training to get to be able to do it is awesome. So do I intend to eat you? Uh.

TBD? Probably not. But like it's cool that I could like if I wanted to, I could do X, Y, and Z to you and just training for that, I think is awesome. I would taste horrible. Like if you're gonna eat somebody, I'm not your guy. You know? Dude, I heard the best place to eat someone is their is like their thumb right here. I heard that's like it got. That little section? Yeah, I I I heard that's the best part. Uh I always thought half would be the way to go.

'Cause that looks like the giant like turkey leg at Disneyland. I I thought I thought would be where I would do that. Muscular parts Muscular parts aren't good, you know, you want fat. The fatter the part is is the better. Your m your calves are pretty lean compared to the rest of your body. Your butt and your belly. Yeah. You ever had Pork Belly Man? That shit's good. It is. It's amazing. Actually Salmon belly, fantastic. Pretty much any belly.

Yeah, I'm a belly guy. We started with Kanye and we ended with eating each other. What part of each other would we want to eat Uh we have fun.

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