Steve Madden: Steve Madden

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That thought he was going to be super successful. You know, I was just trying to survive. And I'm very negative and very pessimistic. Unlike maybe some of the guys that you've done You know, the shows I'm sure they think that you know they Nothing can get me down, nothing. I think I'm going out of business every other day.

From MPR, it's How I Built This, a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements they built. I'm Gai Raz, and on today's show how Stief Madden took High En shoe designs. Gave them low end prices. turned his name into a three billion dollar shoe brand.

So when I was a kid If you wanted to wear brand names and you couldn't afford the prices, you'd go to Mervin's or Marshall's or Ross and you'd look for things called irregular items. Maybe it was a pair of guest jeans missing a zipper or an espree-shirt with one arm slightly longer than the other. And it was no big deal because you still got the brand and you got it at Marshall's prices. But then, starting in the early 1990s,

Brands like H<unk>M and Zara started to go global, and it meant that all of a sudden, many more people had access to high-fashioned designs, but at a much lower price. And this is the way that Steve Madden not only tapped into, but in a lot of ways Pioneered. especially when it came to shoes. With Steve Madden's, you could all of a sudden buy a pair of black stilettos for 70 bucks that looked suspiciously like a$900 pair of Manola Blonics.

Or a$60 pair of Lego like heels that were a knockoff of thousand dollar Balenciaga's. This was the genius of Steve Madden. He managed to carve out a very sweet spot between Nine West and Christian Louboutin. No. This approach didn't come without consequences. The world of high fashion is an exclusive club, and Steve Madden is largely unwelcome.

And one reason? pedigree. Steve didn't apprentice at one of the great fashions. He didn't start out in Milan or Paris. In fact, Steve didn't even study design. And he's also kind of brash and a bit of a loud mouth. So brash, in fact, that he was willing to break the law to get ahead.

Steve spent two and a half years in prison for financial crimes. It's an experience that completely changed his life, and we will get there. But long before that, Steve grew up in Long Island, New York. He was a scrappy, middle class, half Irish, half Jewish kid. I was sort of a cleader type, charismatic, sort of, always pretty similar to the way I am now, but I was You know, small and

Had a big mouth. And A little obnoxious probably. The kind of kid who would get in trouble at school? Uh yeah, I always got in trouble. I was always in trouble.

I had a attention deficit disorder. I didn't know it then. Yeah. Nobody nobody knew it. Yeah, that was the sixties and So They didn't really talk about it then, but I couldn't sit still. Yeah. I had Spilkis. Yeah.

So school was not your your forte? No. Um the only difference is that I was I was a reader. So and I loved history. And I used to love to read about the Moguls. You know, that w I was obsessed for some reason, I was drawn to this thing about Louis B. Mayer and Samuel Goldwyn and

These great entrepreneurs that I I mean at a very young age. Yeah, it was like drawn to it. Yeah, why? Why do you think so? I I don't know why. I mean, you know, I was I guess it was the the intersection

You know, was very interesting to me. And still is. And those guys came from nothing, most of them. Yeah, and they were artists, but they were businessmen. So it was that kinda thing. Yeah.

Your dad was in the textile business. Was w just out of curiosity, was your dad entrepreneurial? Did he have that kind of mind? Yes, my dad was, but you know, he grew up in the depression. And you know, he was very limited, filled with fear. Uh because he had seen so much poverty, so his he sort of capped his upside. He was not a risk taker. He wasn't a great risk taker, but he was a smart man, he was a businessman, but it he never really made the big bucks. Because he was very safe.

Which in a way I admire him. Because he stayed in I mean, it's easy to criticize people like that. Uh You know, but he was a gr you know, always provided we weren't the

We were right in the middle. I mean we weren't you know, rich or anything, but we weren't the poorest, but it was like, you know People got a ten speed bike and they got shwin. I never got a shwing. And y you wanted to be the kind of person who could buy that stuff one day.

I did. I always did. Yeah, I always wanted to fly first class, you know. Like I'd be riding in coach. You know, I was like, Get me in the front of this plane.

You know, kind of thing. How do you how'd you end up working at a shoe store at age sixteen? So I worked in a shoe store I was In high school. Yeah, the neighborhood sort of cool. shoe store. They all the guy that

Started the store. Uh went to high school with my brother John. So it was a job. It wasn't like hey, I want to go work in shoes, it was just a job. She sort of fell into it. Yeah. But I fell in love with it right away.

What did you fall in love with? So it's hard to explain, but at that moment in the shoe business, you know, it was a very exciting time because This is like the m early to mid seventies. before I even started platform shoes were very big. For men. Will I was a really wild time in the shoe business. And so it was just very interesting, you know. I was into it.

The creative Sort of. Vibe of the whole thing. What do you remember about working in that store? I remember working very hard.

Very motivated, even at a young age. And was that I mean When you were there, was were you thinking Shoes, this is me, this is my calling, or were was it more like I like selling stuff? I love selling stuff. He did, he did. I do, but I also like creating stuff. Yeah. And I like creating stuff to sell.

It's always been sort of a core sort of philosophy of mine. I've never been like oh that's creative, but you know, nobody wants to buy it. And then on the other hand, you know, just to

Kind of creativity is boring to me too. So you are working so so you're in the store. The store is, by the way, is called Toulouse. Toulouse, yeah. And uh what who was the guy who ran it? So yeah, there was this great guy. His name was Lance Rubin. And I really most of what I know.

I got from this guy. You were sixteen and he was in his thirties. Twenty seven. Wow, he owned that store twenty seven. Yeah. And the thing about this guy was so interesting because he was a a young man who was successful and creative. And I never saw that usually the people that had That I thought of as businessmen were like my father. Yeah. You know, they rode the railroad and they wore those long coats with the hats. Like Don Draper. But anyway, Lance came along, he was this artist, and he designed these shoes.

And also the wholesalers that sold him would be asking him for input on designs. Oh wow. Yeah,'cause he was an up and comer, you know, like a young gun. So you are a high school student working at the shoe store, but you have plans to go to college, right? You you were gonna go to college. Yeah. I went to University of Miami. In Florida? To study. Um

Golf and sun tents. How did you do you do well? I did good. Yeah. I did well, yeah. Yeah. I mean I love Learning But it was uh I was on my own and it was

Too much. You know, it's a bit of a blur, but I think it was about eighteen months. And and it wasn't for you. It wasn't for me. My dad Did me the biggest favor by pulling me out of school and When I say he pulled me out of school, he refused to pay another fifty cents. For me to fool around in college. So I went to work. You went back to to Long Island? I went back to Long Island. And back to a sh to a shoe store? And shoes because you had experience doing that, I had experience, so

It was kind of a famous store and Long island called Jildor. Which most people know in New York. So you are uh and there you're also a sales guy Just dealing with customers in the store.

Yeah, I was just a sales guy on the Floor. D and so you're out of your sort of a college dropout, you're working at this shoe store selling shoes and I don't know w was your dad or your mom were they saying, Steve, what do you you know, you you're not gonna work at a shoe store your whole life. Did they say that at all or did they kinda just leave you alone? There are people that said that to me. Guys my own age, you know, making fun of me for working in a shoe store, for sure.

You know, my father did not make fun of me. My father recognized that Good hard work was good. So you're you're working in a shoe store and and I guess at a certain point you go to to the city, to New York City to work at another shoe store. The guy that owned Toulouse, Lance, opened up a wholesale company called LJ Simone. And he calls you out of the blue? Yes, ps pretty much, yeah.

And he says come to work, come sell. That's what I did. It's like a little wholesale company. Yeah. And what happened was I went to work there and we blew it up, man. Wha how did you blow it up? You know, I went to work for them and it was like boom, we made a nice company out of it. And w he was sourcing shoes from shoe factories and then what Yeah, he was designing the shoes and I was selling them. So he would design them

Design shoes. Wow. Yeah. Well, you know, there's certain tricks of the trade and knowing what people like and working with different constructions. And it was just the two of you at the beginning? There was a few guys involved, but you know, I was one

I was at the beginning and It got very successful. Who were you selling to? We sell to Macy's and We sold to the bootlegger. I don't know if anybody's from Wash I don't know. Do you anybody remember the bootlegger? We sold all over the country. And

Was that that point where you you start to think about maybe doing this for yourself or did you think This is great. I'm gonna keep I'm gonna this is I'm gonna just ride this train. You know, at some point I thought about doing it for myself. I was very happy there. Mm-hmm.

You know, I could do this. Yeah. How much revenue were they doing and when you were working for'em, how much money were they making? I would say they were doing maybe Forty million a year. Wow. Yeah, which is like big. Yeah, they were yeah, we maybe something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And

And so what happened? Why did you leave? You know, I had taken it as far as I could take it. And um I just didn't want to have a boss anymore. It was just time.

You know, it's ready for me to sort of chart my own course. And I was like thirty. You were thir so you were there for a long time. Yeah. I was like thirty one. And just to just to be clear, at this point you are a single You not married, no kids at that time, right? Yes, single. And you were probably paid pretty well by Lance.

You're probably g making a decent living. Yeah, I was. I made a lot of money with him. You know, relative to the time. Yeah. Uh and and you weren't worried at all about risking Risking all that? I'm still worried about it. But then you were you had this really good salary. Yes, I'm worried. So yes, but I just wanted to do it on my own. Yeah.

This was also I mean it's kinda wild. I mean you were You were drinking heavily? I was uh Started using drugs. And drinking.

I was pretty much Pretty inebriated most of my twenties. Yeah, they say when an alcoholic Hit bottom. You know they keep

There's another level of bottom to go. So yeah, it was pretty bad. How bad did it get? Well You know.

I could tell you a lot of stories about it. Um But basically I couldn't stop. And you know, I was embarrassing myself. And it was starting to affect my work and uh I had to stop.

Or die. Was that bad? Yeah. Drugs and drink. Yes. Okay.

Everything. Yeah. And uh I would work, you know, it went I worked. I work, work, work and then get

Stoned at night, you know, hammered. Because you were working so hard it was just like the thing you did. You just Yeah. You thought you deserved it or you could justify it some Yeah. But uh oh I was a mess.

It was a mess. When when did you how did you How did you get out of that? I had some friends. You know that

Pointed me towards a place where I could get sober. Did you go to AA or did you go to a clinic? I did. I went to AA. And that helped. It saved my life. Wow.

Yeah. So I'm assuming it was after you you recover that that you started Steve Madden. Yeah.

I was sober when I started Steve Madden. I mean it was just a miracle. You know, I started I was got sober, I started this company And you know, my life completely changed. Hm. And when you started the company, did you Did you The cash to to do it, to to to launch it?

You know, I Scrape together a little money, but basically no. Your own money. Yeah. And what was uh w w what was the idea? What was the first

I idea the idea was to basically do the same thing, design and sell your own. And what was your first shoe? My first shoe was a clog. Was a backless. Clark.

Yeah. And who did you think would be your Customer. That's a very good question. Uh At the time.

You know, I would say it would be my contemporaries, you know, so I was like thirty two. You know, it's a thirty two year old woman. Yeah, I would say. Because I didn't really think about it. I just wanted to make shoes, you know. It wasn't something that I thought. But what happened was I ended up making shoes for the Gen X customer. Those would be people around Forty. Today.

Yeah. Right after I guess that's right after the baby boomers, right? So they were they were teens at the time. Yeah, twenty. And I discovered this market By accident. There was they were very ill served. You know, basically we stepped into that at Steve Madden.

And um how many did you make? So You know, the way it was, you know, we made it we made some shoes and You know We just got this

Fabulous reaction. But not from the people I thought I was gonna get a reaction from, which were my contemporaries, which was from the younger kids. They were like the phone was ring like Where do you get that shoe and all that stuff? So we knew that w something was going on here. So that's the track that we went on. When you s so when you decided to f to start Steve Madden Did you have an office or were you working in a bureau? No, I worked in a shoe factory. A shoe factory. So you found a factory in New York? In Brooklyn. And and you worked with them and then you made I guess some

choose and then what did you do? Did you go to your former Contacts that you had from Yeah, you know, Macy's and Anybody that carried shoes I sold. And then I would go to the national shows and sell them all over the country.

But i in that first in that first year, nineteen ninety. Yeah. Like you would go to shoe stores and they would Take You go with your sample case.

And You'd lay your shoes out and people would buy them. And that was it. Huh. So What was happening. was the market that I was selling to

Everybody in the shoe business walked away from it. The teenagers, you know, and stuff like that. The young And It was a different generation, you know? And so they had their own thing, their own music and their own style and we just tapped into that whole thing.

And this was a market, explain this is a market at the time that was essentially abandoned by most shoes. You know, it seems like it they just abandoned. I mean Nine West, it was a company called Nine West that was dominating the industry. Of course there was Nike and Rebuck. But nobody was like making like funky little shoes. It was kind of a throwback to the seventies. you know, from that other era. So I kinda brought that back. And I was just in the right place.

At the right time. Were they s were they designed to be Like Cool, but also Affordable and expensive?

I've always been sort of democratic with my shoes. Do you remember um How man How much revenue you you did in in in the first year? I probably did.

I don't know. Five hundred thousand. So it's pretty good. Pretty good first year. Yeah. And you named it Steve Madden because it seemed like the obvious thing to do? It seemed like an easy name. Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever think about using like a French name or like a European sounding name? You know it's funny because it was originally the first couple of shoes were called Soulier.

Oh right. Yes, it's a French word for slipper. Uhhuh. And so you know, there was some dispute about that brand. Well maybe I just wanted to call it Steve Madden. I can't remember, but I switched it. Pretty quickly. Yeah, you work for the f there was one guy that called me up. How dare you?

I bought Soulier. I don't want Steve Madden. Who do you think you are? Yeah. I always and a guy still he's still in the shoe business, that guy. And I always torture him when I see him. Alright, so you've got this

Pretty good business going. In year one. What are you thinking? Are you thinking, okay, I mean, did you have ambitions at that point already to make this into something huge? So where I'm at is I started the business. And you know I'm just

Not really don't have much money. I'm just sort of working hand to mouth. And A friend of mine who I grew up with went to work for this brokerage firm and they were raising money for small companies. This is Donny Porash. Danny Porish. Danny Porish. Yeah. And uh You know, we're gonna raise you, we're gonna get you We'll raise you six hundred grand and then we'll get you Six million He was working for a brokerage. Yes. He worked, he was a senior guy at

And he said to you, hey, you need to expand. So you're really talented. I've known you my whole life. You know, what would you do if you got six hundred thousand six hundred thousand was like six hundred million to me. Yeah. And then he said, Well not only will I get you six hundred grand, but I'm gonna get you six million dollars when I take you public. And I laughed at him. You know, because I probably had thirty thousand dollars in my To my name. And so of course you're like what thirty three, thirty two, and you're thinking, You can raise me six hundred thousand bucks.

Let's do it. So he so so so Danny Uh helped you go public. Yeah, and he helped me go public and his firm was called Stratton Oakman. A very famous name for anybody who's seen Wall Street. It was a pretty good movie, actually.

My name is Jordan Belfort. The year I turned 26, I made 49 million dollars, which really pissed me off because it was three shy of a million a week. I guess we should explain. Strat Oakmont was just like called a pump and dump firm. Yeah, they used to call boiler rooms. Right. And they would basically sell they would sell really crappy companies. They would jack up get the stock price jacked up. And then they would sell all the shares and make tons of money and people would lose their shirts. And so they basically were wanted to do this with Steve Matten, right? They wanted to do it with Steve Madden. I was the perfect guy for them. Because You know, I had a company and it was small and they could do their thing with it, you know, fit the profile.

But For those of you who don't know me, uh My name's Steve Madden. Yeah, we know who you are. Show him the shoot. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, you know, this this shoe So that scene With me talking in front of the it was very accurate. We should explain the scene for people who haven't seen it. You you go up in front of all these

Um these like traitors and the spoiler. actually be interested. But they really weren't. I was just a piece of it was just a piece of paper and a piece of meat that they could sell. Believe it or not, believe it or not, though, the Mary Lou is actually the same as the Mary Jane, but it's black leather. I I wanna Just to digress for a moment.

Because I'm not one of those entrepreneurs that that thought he was going to be super successful. You know, I was just trying to survive.

And I'm very negative and very pessimistic. Unlike maybe some of the guys that you've done You know, the shows I'm sure they think that you know they I think I'm going out of business every other day.

So it at that time. This is like ninety three, I guess, when when Yeah, ninety two, ninety three. So we went public. And how did the stock do? Well they were totally manipulated, the stocks they went up. And it you know, it was a pump it was a classic pump and dump. And only Steve Madden was a real company. Yeah. So if you kept that stock you would make a on that day in nineteen ninety three.

And you own ten thousand shares. I haven't really done the math, but I think you would be worth A lot of millions and millions of dollars today. So the Stratton sale go the company goes public, Stratton takes you public. Yeah. All of a sudden it raises how much money for you? I think the public offering was about seven million bucks. Wow. And we use it. I

I took it and then Very Short. period of time from A half a million bucks, I was doing forty million a year, fifty million a year. And and what did that mean? Th within thirty six months. Incredible. So okay, you get all this cash from from the initial public offering. Yeah.

Uh and at that point I mean Did you ask any questions? I mean mean these guys were uh they were totally breaking the law. I mean they At that point they were artificially inflating your stock. So did you Like were you suspicious at all about Danny and about Stratton? I mean, did you

Uh did you think hey, you know, what are these guys doing? I Knew it was too good to be true. Yeah. I knew it. So we know I lied to myself. And I told myself that it was a gray area.

You know, the trading in these stocks and the flipping they would sell me the stocks and I would sell them back to them. Just Steve Madden stocks or No all the other deals. They brought me into other deals. So I lied to myself. You know, everybody's doing it. You know, like that. But I knew in my heart.

That it was illegal and it was wrong. Thrilling. That you were getting away with it. Well making that much money is certainly thrilling.

For sure. But um I wish That I hadn't done it. And

But you know more than wishing I hadn't done it, because that's Sort of an empty thing to say. I wish that I didn't feel compelled to do it. I wish that I didn't have that feeling that money was everything, because it's not. It's not everything.

So I was greedy and foolish. Here's what I'm trying to figure out. You are this creative guy. You create shoes, you design shoes. And you've got a really successful and growing business. And then on the side you're doing this these weird stock trades that are shady and uh shady ultimately illegal. Why why would you even do that stuff on the side if you already had the creativity in the business. You know.

You just get caught up. Just get caught up? In this thing. but it at a certain point it can't be about money, it has to be about fulfillment and and Weren't you fulfilled by just the creation of your shoes and and seeing your shoes out in the world?

Well, that's a very heavy question. How one gets fulfilled. We're still grappling with that today. You know?

So there are moments. Where I'm very fulfilled, you know. And There are moments when I'm not. Um

I was raised to think that money was everything. You know? Money is the center of the universe. And if that's what your core belief is, you know, you'll do anything. And you'll break the law.

You know. It's like a money's like a drug. You know. And We got in trouble.

In just a minute. How Steve Madden pays and pays hard for his crimes. And eventually how he comes back to the company he started. To make it even bigger. Stay with us, I'm Guy Roz, and you're listening to How I Built This.

From NPR. Hey welcome back to how I built this from NPR. So It's two thousand two. And after being implicated in a stock manipulation scheme.

Steve Madden? Goes on trial. He's convicted. and sentenced to three and a half years in prison. So in the space of just a few years. He goes from being one of the most famous and successful shoe designers in America.

To sitting in a prison cell. What did you think? I mean, did you think I'm finished? My life is is over. Yeah, pretty much. Uh

You know I thought I thought I was could have my goose was cooked. But I did have the sense that I could get through it. Were there people who knew you who didn't like you?

Who are Just Feeling like uh he he got his come up and stuff. Yeah, I had made such a success in the shoe business. And I was a bit of a rebel, so now people are going aha, see? That's what happens when you do that.

Where did you where Florida you were sent to a uh Florida, yeah. Minimum security prisoners. Yeah. What they call a camp. Mm-hmm. And what was your what was your living situation like there? We lived in a barracks. Yeah, it's like a Military barracks. You hate your own room?

I lived in a cube. Lived in a cube. And uh with another guy. Or two.

How did you pass the time? Well, read a lot. Exercise a lot. And I taught some classes when I was there. Did you

When you got there and you knew that you were gonna be there for at least Well you were there for thirty one month, but but forty one I think was your sense. Thirty one months. Yeah. Did you ever Get depressed, did you ever think I I I don't know how I'm gonna stay here for thirty one months.

Yeah, on my first night I looked up at the ceiling. And I said, How the peck am I gonna do this? How am I gonna get through this? Did it go by faster than you expected? It seemed like thirty one years.

Wow. But I quickly uh ascertained early on that whining and Moaning would not do me any good. And running around saying I was innocent would not do me any good.

So I would try to get through this, try to Better myself if It sounds corny, but Exercise and read and

Learn and You know. That kind of thing. And so I did. When you went to jail, um Steve Madden was doing very well, right?

When I went to jail it was doing well. Were you worried about the brand? That the name your name was the brand? That your I had great people working for me. I was I was really worried about surviving. And getting through it. You personally or the company? The prison.

I was really more focused on getting through that experience. Did you think that you would Ever go back to Steve Matton? You're the company you built? Yeah. Yeah. So you have that horizon to look forward to. Mm-hmm.

Do do you think this is a really weird question, but I'm curious to to hear your take on it. Um If you could trade The time you were in prison. for, you know, just continuing on and not not not having that experience. Would you

Would you do it or or do you think that is strangely enough that that time being incarcerated was important for your development as a person? Um Yeah, uh that's exactly right. I I I'm a very big believer in, you know, destiny and your path and all that corny stuff. I just believe it Viccerally.

So I'm so grateful for my life. Uh After prison. I married a great girl.

I had great kids. I don't know that I would have had children had I not gone to prison. So I regret some of my choices. Uh You know, shortcuts that I took or

You know, thinking that money was the most important thing. I regret decisions like that. But I don't regret a day in prison. It was an amazing experience. It was very painful. Yeah. I mean the only thing I can descri I've tried to describe it to people Your heart gets broke every day. Yeah. When you're in prison. Your heart breaks every day. The living in prison part

is not as terrible as one might think. Um But um You know, your heart's breaking'cause you're not with the people you love.

That that's the difficult part of prison. It it sounds like you became a much more empathetic person. When when you were there and you saw people who were unlike you, who did not grow up like you, who came from different backgrounds, who had who kind of ended up there because of circumstances. Well, particularly the The African American experience.

Touched me. And um Young men dealing drugs. Getting huge sentences Unfair drug laws that really were biased against black people.

So that was You know, to see problems in those communities, you know, to wit talk to Young black man and

It's a very complicated You know, issue. I mean. No, I just think I I'll give you an example. This is a little thing. When I grew up

I went to Grade school in the sixties, right? We w we learnt that Robert E. Lee was a kindly gentleman. He was pr he was called a hero. Like he let he defended his homeland of Virginia. Mm. And that's just that that's just

Complete racism. But we didn't realize it. It's this subtle form of racism. Mm so that's the kind of thing that uh You know, those kind of feelings or stuff that came up in prison, you know, that kind of thing. That I learned and read more about it.

Okay, so you uh I think you get out in uh in two thousand five and and Do you remember the day that that you were released? You know, that's such a interesting question because I don't really. Wow. It was a bit of a blur.

I I think of it now. I thought about that day when I was away for so long. What it was gonna be like. And I can't remember it now. I really can.

My wife picked me up. And uh we should mention that while you were in prison you fell in love. Yes. Yeah, and she picked me up. She was an employee. We went I know that we had sushi. And I just I uh I just can't remember it was so

It was such a blur. It was so much coming at me. You know, when you're locked up. After thirty months. You know, everything is like amazing.

Like a slice of pizza's like, Oh my god. Like this is the greatest thing ever. So you You're out. You're back.

back in in society. back. Uh how long did it take you to to adjust? Uh to having control over your own schedule, your day to day schedule. Well, there's a transition period you go into a halfway house, but I was fortunate'cause I had a job and I came right back to work. So it was an amazing time.

And what was your position when you came back to to your company? Um The same position I'm in today, which is the founder. Which is the Chief Cheerleader. Mm-hmm.

We have fabulous people running Steve Madden. Um I wasn't a great CEO. Why weren't you a great CEO? You know, I'm just um

Not detail oriented. And uh My talents are suited in other things, you know? Yeah. When did you when did you realize that you were not cut out to be a CEO?

Well when it's the business is small, you can kinda be the CEO. Yeah, you know everybody. So you know everybody You live and breathe it. And then you could be a CEO because you touch everything. But then a business, you know Once a business gets past a certain point. You know, it's impossible for someone like me.

to to do that job. But when you came back to the company uh in two thousand five I think within four years. uh Steve Madden hit revenue of of over half a billion dollars. So So what happened in that time? Like how did the company grow? Wha what was the strategy that allowed you to grow so much?

So our goal was to you know, make great shoes and you know, I think that that kind of like one out at the end of the day. The marketing wasn't super fantastic. It was just great shoes. great prices, great value, and uh you know, I think that we just wore everybody out with that. You know, more people were giving us their open to buy, and we opened more stores, you know, and thing and our internet business exploded. But the big thing about Steve Madden, I have to say, and I've said this many times, was the people at Steve Madden is that I've hired so many great people. It starts with recognizing my own limitations.

I'm weak at that. So let me get somebody that can do that for me. And uh You know, that's really the story, it's people. So you come you come back to the company and you uh f by the way, you had plenty of money at that point. I mean you could have you could have sold your shares, walked away, very rich man. Uh and just kind of

I don't know, done something else or focused on yourself. Uh why why did you want to go back to the company? Well actually it's it that's an eternal That's a I grapple with that all the time. So I love m the idea of making shoes Yeah. that people want to buy and I love seeing my shoes being worn. And I just love all of it. And I love making money.

I mean be clear about that. I love it. I love the whole thing. W what because you don't need more of it, so what do you love about it? Well Okay. That's a good qu you these are great questions. And I wanna ask other entrepreneurs or other people, like so how do you stay motivated? You know, let's say you've got, you know, a few dollars in the bank and you know that you the rent is paid and all of that. Sure. And uh so what keeps you going? I I once asked Heim Saban a similar question. You know who Heim Saban is, right? The media mogul? Yes.

And you know, he grew up like dirt poor in Alexandria, Egypt. He came from literally nothing. Right. And uh I said, you know, what what what's the big deal?'Cause he he he he was waiting to sell his company to Disney for I don't know, uh you know, more than a billion dollars. Yeah. And I said, But w you know, why why not just take five hundred

million when they offer that to you. He said, because it wasn't worth that. I wanted I wanted to be a billionaire. And and and the point he made was that it wasn't about the actual dollar amount. For him it was a mark. It was like a it was like a mark he could say, Okay, I've reached this point. And then I can reach this point. And then it's this point. And it's

It's like a demarcation point of success. Yeah. It's a heavy question. It really is. But of course, it's a luxury that people with money have to be able to talk about this stuff. Yeah, there's somebody. out there that will listen to this and

You know, they've gotta pay their rent next Friday and they'll say, Well listen to this idiot talking about it. You know, and I agree with them. But you know, it does get lost. Yeah, the money is the money, but but it's something I think about a great deal. Because I feel so good. If if I have a had a Great day at work.

We're I'm inspiring and inspired. At the same time, it's such an amazing feeling. There's no amount of money that can replicate that. Yeah. So I guess that's what I want, you know. Inspire and be inspired. Do you d what was the last shoe that you designed, just out of curiosity?

The last shoe I designed was last week. Last week sneaker with studs. You designed a shoe last week? Oh yeah. Yeah. We have a factory in uh Long Island City's just outside the East River in Manhattan. But I'm always fiddling with shoes and um Thinking about shoes. Of course I have a great team that does most of the work and I take most of the credit now.

You receive you you don't seem to be a super obsessed over your own personal style. You're like you got the baseball cap thing going, you got uh But you're not wearing like uh Designer like runway outfits every day. No. No, I'm r I look like a garage mechanic some days.

On that runway. Yeah, I wear T shirts and jeans. I'm very lucky. That's I I don't take that For granted. I'm blessed that I'm The ability to wear A nice clean T shirt every day.

Fashion folks kind of were snobby about you that they I don't know, they didn't let you into into their club'cause you weren't from, you know, Milan or didn't go to uh art school or'cause you wore baseball caps and uh and you were, you know, kinda Kicking their butts with with with sort of a Shoes that were a fraction of the price. Did you think it's a bit there's a bit of that. There was a bit of that. Big time.

It's not so much anymore. They used to bug you? Yeah, it bugged me. Bugged me a lot. You know, I w or I would go into a high end department store like a Barney's, let's say.

And They wouldn't carry Steve Madden. They wouldn't dare carry Steve Madden. But all the people working in the store wore Steve Madden. Which just drive me crazy. Yeah. Yeah. That happened so many times. And still to this day there's a bit of that going on.

Um It's frustrating. But if you step away from the balcony, like me looking at this, I would be like Who cares? You crushed them all like so big deal. Well, I once was upset because uh they put Puff Daddy in the C F DA.

The C F T is a club for what? C F T A it's the Something for designers. C F D A very, very posh. And they put puffy in there. And I thought to myself, Puffy? What is he at to say? Wait are you in there? I'm not. They won't let you in. Even to this day, they won't let you in. You cannot get into their cloud. I'm not allowed in the building. So, you know, and the and I they would say, Well you copy uh, you know, Balenciaga or whatever it is. Yeah.

You know, and we we definitely are aware of expensive shoes that are out there. You know, but in some ways a lot of these these high end designers could make the you could make the case that You know, the younger crowd Well enter the market by buying Steve Madden shoes and then there's this aspirational to buy Manola Bonnet. I I always say it's a gateway drug of shoes. Steve Madden. They're not buying Lou Batons and Manolas without starting with Steve Madden. So Manela should give me

Tons of love for that. I reach much, many more people than you. Do you think that there will be a point where you are Acknowledged by your peers. Is that important to you? I'm acknowledged by a lot of people.

Probably too much. You know, young men coming up really know. And identify with the struggle and the grind and what I've done. So I think there's a different kind of respect going on. Not what I had thought.

But another kind of respect and I feel it all the time. You know, I'm walking down the street, people shout out to me and you know It's It's the real thing. How much of of your success do you think is because of Your skill and intelligence hard work and how much of it is because of luck.

I think a lot of it is luck. I do. I think My own sort of philosophy is that the window of opportunity Opens.

uh for you several times in life for one and I think the intelligence comes from knowing when that window is open. And You know, being able to jump through that window. Because you can have all the talent in the world, but sometimes the window is just not open.

Besides the obviously the stuff that landed you in prison, um, what uh Are there mistakes that you made? early in in the business that you would have done differently, knowing what you know now? Let me just say that uh

Mistakes can be a very good thing. Yeah. Um You know, so there were some mistakes that we made, but we did so many great things. And the thing about that is If you start getting gun shy. and start being afraid to make a mistake, you'll never have the brilliant ideas. You'll never have the big ideas. You know, if you just try to hit the safe

The safe ones. You know, then you're You're doomed. I feel like. Yeah. So you need to make mistakes.

Yeah. You need to goof. Cause if you're not goofing a few times, it means you're not reaching. Steve Madden? Founder of Steve Madden Shoes.

The company's market cap recently hit more than three billion dollars. the highest level? It's ever reached. Uh by the way, how many how many pairs of shoes uh do you do you actually own? I don't have a lot of shoes.

What's the fanciest brand you you own? I own Johnson and Murphy. The fanciest brand you own? I do. I own Johnson and Murphy shoes. They're the greatest. Yeah, my dad wore them. And please do stick around because in just a moment we're gonna hear from you about the things you're building.

Hey, thanks so much for sticking around because it's time now for how you built that. And today's story starts back in two thousand two when Chris Demino was a design student working on a class project. The assignment was to repurpose a typewriter. Given that it's now absolutely So to come up with ideas, Chris bought an old Smith Corona typewriter at a garage sale, brought it home and just kind of stared at it for a while. Maybe I was a little hungry at the time, but I think just staring at it long enough, it eventually came to me that this looks like a waffle to me. And a few seconds later.

If I use this as the base And have another thing on top and it would be sort of like an old waffle maker. And there you have it. That was his idea. To make a waffle iron out of typewriter keys instead of the typical cast iron grid. So I went to uh Salvation Army and picked up this old waffle iron for seven bucks. And then I basically rip the keys off of the typewriter. Okay, just to explain this a bit, he took the keys off of that old Smith Corona, he used them to make plastic molds, and then he put the molds into the waffle iron so It looked like you could make a waffle in the shape of a keyboard, but this thing was just for show. It looked incredible, but it didn't have a heating element, so it couldn't make anything. Anyway, the story might have ended there, except Chris posted a picture of this on his website. People started sharing it and people started emailing me about it. And like two years later, I had seven million hits on that page in particular. And of course, a lot of people were asking Chris, where can I buy this thing? The more the people asked, the more I asked myself.

Hey, could I do this? It was almost like The universe was like you're gonna make this and people are gonna like it. Okay, but this posed a problem. How to make a real waffle iron.

Well for starters, Chris decided to give his original idea a bit of a makeover. And go with the computer keyboard instead. There's basically a standard uh five rows of keys. with you know the escape key, the delete key, the space bar. And Chris figured he'd just take that rectangular design and then put it into an existing mold for an electric waffle iron. But then he discovered that most waffles They're pretty square, and he couldn't find an electric wafflemaker that had that long rectangular base he needed. So then he thought, okay.

I'll just make the base myself, but it turns out that wasn't gonna work either. It's a really steep cliff. Pricewise just To get into that game, you you have to get certifications and Not to mention just the manufacturing, the tooling, so

It totally scared me away from going that way. So then Chris thought, maybe I shouldn't even bother trying to make an electric waffle iron. Maybe I can just do one that sits in a stovetop, no electronics, no plug. I ended up making one real aluminum version carved out of a block of aluminum. Super heavy, heavy and dense and thick, but I poured battery in and lo and behold on the first try I made a very, very good waffle. And a few weeks later, he launched a Kickstarter campaign and people were really into it. And they're like, Oh my god, finally you're making it now. I can't believe you're finally making it. Chris raised over sixty thousand dollars on Kickstarter. And with that money, he was able to find a factory in China that was willing to make the waffle iron. And yes, if you look at his video, the thing definitely does make waffles in the shape of a computer keyboard. I don't know, I designed this so that with all the keys there, it sort of has parts that are thick.

And then basically between the keys were thinner. So my hope was that those would be sort of crispy and airy, and then the other parts would be sort of more dense and you you'd find ways to have fun with it with, you know, toppings and putting berries in the keys. Chris calls this product what else? The keyboard waffle iron. And over the past three years, he's sold 7,000 of them, mostly on Amazon. But for now, he's still got his day job as a graphic designer. If you wanna find out more about the keyboard waffle iron or hear previous episodes, head to our podcast page, how IbuiltThis.npr.org. And of course, if you want to tell us your story, go to build.npr.org. We love hearing what you're building. And thanks so much for listening to the show this week. You can subscribe at Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and while you're there, please do give us a review. You can also write to us at hibt at npr.org.

And if you want to send a tweet, it's at how I built this. Our show is produced this week by Ramteen Arablui, who also composed the music. Thanks also to Noor Kutsi, Neva Grant, Sanaz Meshkinpur, and Jeff Rogers. Our intern is JC Howard. Guy Raz and you've been listening to how I built this. from NPR.

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