#330: The Return of Drunk Dialing Q&A: How to Ask Better Questions, Take Better Risks, and More!

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Check it out. Hello you crazy kids, this is Tim Ferris. Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferris Show where it is my want to investigate the habits and routines of world class performers to try to tease out the various details that you might apply to your own life. This episode is a very different format. It is an odd one that has proven surprisingly popular. for reasons that sometimes I don't quite understand. And that is a drunk dialing Q and A

with all of you guys, which I've done a few times in uh the last few years. And here's how it works. I solicited phone numbers from listeners On Facebook and Twitter. want to receive a phall from me, which they put into a Google form. Then I told people who the first say

ten to twenty we're going to be. By posting it on social media, and then I started drinking and dialing, answering questions and getting a little frisky along the way. Uh, in fact, this one I came in hot. started uh after a few preliminary drinks with friends on a weekend, so it's double trouble. I ended up covering topics including

how to reassess existing projects, specifically ones which you've put a lot of capital and time into using eighty twenty analysis and other tools, how to learn to care less about what people think, social perception, and how to minimize herd mentality. Not saying I'm perfect in that regard, but I'm pretty good and have approaches for sort of decreasing the perceived pressure around all those things. A framework for thinking about entrepreneurship, risk taking, and how to cut your teeth as a business builder or creator. how to learn to ask better questions, whether in dating or sales, and how to let the silence do the work, and so much more. And uh all that preamble out of the way. Please enjoy.

This tequila fueled. Q and A. With all y'all. With the Danish. Danny, this is Tim Ferris. Hey Danny, this is Tim Ferris. How are you?

I'm doing well, man. How are you? Oh, I'm uh clicking into six gear, which is sloppy gear. So you're catching me at a good point. This is uh just in the transition to probably twenty percent too much alcohol. How are you doing? Uh I d I don't know, man. Uh relative to you, I'm not quite sure how many glasses of wine are you in right now. Oh no, we're we're dealing with straight tequila. So I would say I'm four or five glasses in, which is

I'd say a pretty good spot. It's not completely haphazard, but It is uh well lubricated. Where are you at the moment? I am growing in Salt Lake City, Utah. Are you um in I am. The fine the fine city of Austin and the Republic of Texas.

Big fan of SLC though. It's a good spot. So how can I assists this evening. What questions might you have? Yeah, I kind of have a two part question and uh So especially what it is is um

Aside from fear setting, which is they've gone over multiple times is uh What process or system do you use or have you used in the past to essentially or effectively stop caring about what other people's um opinions are about you, your endeavors. thing like that and then how do you go about building a world class supports the stuff.

These Could both go for a while. So I will try my best to provide a non bullshit answer. Uh In terms of

Getting to the point. Where You care less or not at all about what other people think. Let me drill into your own. your personal case. So what is what is there that you might want to do

Where Caring about what other people think is inhibiting your ability. To execute. Whether it's a For yourself.

Or for the world at large. In some capacity. Yeah, so for myself, it'd just be entrepreneurship as a whole, just because I grew up oh I'm an immigrant, so Came to the States when I was four from Germany, family immigrated. Germany from Yugoslavia in the early nineties with all of the war and genocide going on. So

the immigrant narrative is you're nobody unless you get a college degree. So naturally I'm competing against all of my family members and cousins who are all electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, et cetera, et cetera. So Regardless of what ideas, ambitions, or anything else than that. Regarding that to be there. Yeah. As long as I don't have a college degree, nobody values it and like you're just kind of spinning your wheels and wasting your time.

Got it. Okay. So it's not r it's so you're not then. concerned about what prospective customers or People in the marketplace Think of whatever you're starting. It's more of a question of family members. Mr.

out of the herd mentality, right? effectively break away from that and uh be bottom down but just some of the things that are gonna happen, um you know, within my own circle. This is tougher. This is tougher than the marketplace. I I would say uh tougher but not impossible. I w I would recommend a few resour a few resources. This is not something that I've personally experienced.

But it's something that a lot of my friends have experienced. Uh it's very, very common as you know with immigrant families. Right, whether uh a lot of my friends are first generation raised in the US from India, for instance. Um exceptionally common. If you are not an engineered lawyer or doctor or fill in the blank, then

All of your motives and the future prospects are suspect. Uh What I have observed is that If you experience a degree of success in entrepreneurship, then all sins are forgiven. And ultimately people are very proud of what you've done.

Uh a a few resources that I might recommend that I've found helpful in navigating maybe And that I've seen other people benefit from and that have come up a lot in interviews on the podcast, for instance, as it relates to Some similar

life experiences. One would be Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankel. Mm-hmm. Uh the second Which has has come up a lot. is The Magic of Thinking Big by David Schwartz.

Uh both of these books are are quite short. I want to say both are certainly no longer than two hundred and fifty pages and maybe less than two hundred each. So you could you could read each in an afternoon. Uh or uh certainly a single day. And You know, aside from that, I would look for people who have done what you are trying to do.

Namely succeed as an entrepreneur as the child of immigrants who have Uh A security

focused mindset, if I could be so bold as to assume that's the case, right? Yeah. Yeah. Uh and uh There are many, many, many such people to look to. Whether that's Uh

on the on on the name brand side, you can certainly pick and choose. I'm more familiar with many of the Indian entrepreneurs who have done this based on uh spending time with organizations like the Indus Entrepreneur TI which may or may not exist any longer, but it was certainly a uh a major Entity when I was first getting to know the Bay Area with nothing to my name aside from really a piece of shit hand me down

green minivan. And uh I've I've always found those stories to be exceptionally inspiring, but also to serve as proof of concept for you to see that it can be done and that in fact those people then end up not just being reconciled with their family, but very respected and honored and

talked about by their family at the same time. So I I I I think studying historical cases is Very useful. Uh in in a uh situation like this. Fear setting, certainly we already talked about it. You already talked about it. I'm not gonna belabor that.

Uh Otherwise I I do think that And uh Reachhada, who's an Indian actress, certainly more than that, but talked about this in Tribe of Mentors when she I asked her what she did when she felt overwhelmed or unfocused. And uh she would ask, so what?

So you really you write down your fear and this is different from fear setting. But she would ask so what five to eight times, let's just say. Generative fear and then so what and then so what and then so what you're gonna do.

You realise that the teeth just aren't there. Ultimately I'm making this up. This may not be true for you, but ultimately like Your family will love you no matter what.

they're just busting your balls about this particular thing. Right? Or If you fail in entrepreneurship you can always go get a job. It may not be in electrical engineering, but if you wanted to and had to, you had a gun against your head, you had to go find a job that your parents would approve of or your siblings would approve of, you could do that. Right. Uh or you could at least get on a path

that would lead to one of those jobs and therefore in and of itself be respectable. Two Your family members. Uh that's another tool in the toolkit potentially.

But I I think that Any modicum of success forgives all sins. The problem isn't getting to the initial one, right? Yeah, yeah, it is. It is. But look, I I I am not I mean my Grandfather was the f the first

on one side of my family and I never dealt with Having Parents who were uh first generation immigrants uh at all. But

Uh certainly My parents have been unable to explain to anyone what Tim does for a living for a really, really long time. I mean it was it was very, very hard to explain. And once I had a label like author or podcaster that could be used Yeah. And they were very supportive. I don't want to say my parents weren't supportive Uh they were, but

the labels and the success combine To give your parents or siblings a story that makes sense for them and that they can convey to other people. And you can help them to develop that narrative, if that makes sense. And you can also help them to develop that narrative by introducing them to documentaries or books or stories or articles

About immigrants who've become entrepreneurs. Yeah. Well irony and all that is, is that like my dad and uncle and everybody else that came over here first generation are all entrepreneur immigrants, but

Well then. So It's an interesting paradox. Yeah, I I would s I yeah, and and he and here's here's another thing I would say. It doesn't make you weak to care About what other people think. It makes you human.

I as a species, Homo sapiens would not have created I mean arguably destroyed also. But what we have created. Without a concern for social perception and hierarchy. That is just

that we experience as a human being. And it serves a lot of productive purposes. So I I wouldn't judge yourself too harshly. for caring what other people think. Uh you just have to equally care about what you think.

Right. Yeah, and I and a good way to learn to care about what you think is to take it out of your head and to put it onto paper, whether that's through fear setting, through the five minute journal or something like that, morning pages and so on. I really find that I cannot grapple productively with my own thoughts until I've trapped them on paper in some fashion. No, that makes complete sense. I appreciate that. Yeah.

If it doesn't, I apologize. But uh Yeah. What what else what else do you have for me? I guess not be necessarily answered that within the initial question, but just uh going about building um I guess a little class.

Support system and just you know. getting in the right network or group of people you were in Silicon Valley around a bunch of you know angels V Cs and kind of that tech industry which Usually Helped open a lot of doors for you and kinda broke down a lot of barriers to help you get your foot in the door and you know become as successful as you are for Work um in that field.

Yeah. Let's get specific. So what do you need a support system for? What are you trying to achieve? What do you think you need one for? Right. And so I guess it just ties into going into um just my ambition of entrepreneurship and branching out and just um actually doing my own thing and

Okay. Right. I mean I mean that could be any No no no you don't have to apologize. It's it's very common that people want to Man their own ship and carve their own course. But

It will help me to think about Yeah. if we have some degree of specificity and Right. Uh if you're trying to pick

And uh this is something I've I've mentioned before, but the five people with whom to associate with most, whether they're in the form of books, in person mentors, or otherwise. You do need the specificity To Help you target. Whether that's a skill set

Or Certain types of characteristics. That you want to develop. Uh So what what do you want to do in the world of entrepreneurship? I mean who are the people you aspire to be like? What are the projects that you would love to be a part of?

And uh you know, where where are you in that journey also? I mean do you have a company with ten employees? Do you have a a company with one employee, namely you, do you have no company but you're thinking about starting something? Where are you at the moment? Yeah. Yeah, I mean so for contacts essentially I um look up to individuals such as yourself or like a car gang or check. Um, John D. Rockefeller, Steve Jobs obviously not. Aiming to hit those heights just because there's so much.

luck involved in that, but those are the you got to some of the people that I bring to the forefront often and think about often and As far as pulling the trigger and doing something, I'm always being to the point of Building something, building up the systems, essentially having everything set up on my end, but then just never pulling the trigger and going live.

Right now I work at a small Sorry about that San Francisco based actually. Umice in Utah though Those operations um analysts and do a lot of building and sales for it, so it's actually going to try to branch out. do my own thing and uh

in the in the realm of social and Yeah, some sort of cross uh hybrid between the two. What do you think you might get through entrepreneurship that you don't get through your current job?

kind of being the captain of my own ship. I've never it never sat well with me kind of being that guy with okay, here's your job, here's your role, here's What we think you're capable of and Here's your pay. Relative to what we think your skill set is. What you can handle and then go ahead and plan your life accordingly to that.

I'd essentially just like to have more time to be able to join my own life, my own agenda, my own calendar. do whatever I want to do um and I will and then I'm also recently married on coming up in two years in marriage. trying to start a family in the next couple of years, so essentially giving them a one up or better foundation than what I had started on.

And I just want the game of business. Wha if you had to start a business tomorrow, you got fired And you need to start generating income within, let's just call it eight weeks. You have eight weeks of severance. Ah we can make it twelve, let's be generous. You have twelve weeks of severance. You have health insurance for a year, let's just assume.

Right. What would you do? Uh I go into e commerce. And build something on Shopify. Yeah.

Do way the market research necessary and just get something going. What would you sell? Probably apparel. Apparel. Why would you sell apparel? Now you're grilling me.

I mean I feel like I could Find some sort of niche. to Bill as far as being identifying with

funds or uh group or industry whether it's um Just going things out there for the sake of throwing things out there. But Well there's all that gear towards entrepreneurship. I've seen a lot of things trending where it's like uh crypto investors and Bitcoin and stuff like that. I know it's trendy, it's not gonna be long term, but something other effectively just helped me get from point A to point B in the meantime. Okay.

So here's what I would Here's what I would suggest uh as a frame as a framework for thinking about entrepreneurship. Uh entrepreneurship is not Mutually exclusive with employment.

And Truth be told, I think the best way to cut your teeth as an entrepreneur is doing so while you have a paycheck. Uh I I

might think of me as a risk taker and someone with a high tolerance for risk. I don't think of myself that way. And for the record, I've interviewed people like Richard Branson, for instance. They do not think of themselves that way either. Uh first and foremost they're looking at how to mitigate risk. So I would suggest That

If that is what you would do as an entrepreneur that you spend Say. every Friday night and Saturday for the next eight weeks Developing that business. Well

Sunda afternoons and evenings, whatever it might be, so that you have the security of the paycheck you're receiving you are Fulfilling your obligations to your employer. While simultaneously cutting your teeth. and testing the assumptions that are underpinning

Your belief that Apparel in e commerce. could be the business that provides you with The freedom you seek.

And uh Right. Uh there's no right answer here. I should also Uh for better or for worse.

the American dream and the media machines that exist in our country highlight the entrepreneurs who seemingly throw caution to the wind, bet the farm and win big. Howmst entrepreneurs succeed and in fact that is not how most

Humans. uh achieve a life of fulfillment And financial security and contentment. Uh there's no shame in determining that you are a really, really, really good

Lieutenant. or general who can execute on orders. And Take something. that would overwhelm other people in complexity or

Fill in the blank perimeter. And uh Turn a plan into reality. That is an incredibly powerful gift. And

If you do that within the confines of a company that is in no way indicative of a lower value Than being An entrepreneur. staring off into space and trying to figure out what the fuck to do. So I just e even though

I mean I am an entrepreneur because I am a shitty, shitty shitty, shitty, shitty employee. Basically. And Uh I'm proud of that in some capacities, but I'm also ashamed of that in other capacities. I mean there are severe personality uh interpersonal deficits

That Make my entrepreneurship a necessity and not an option. Does that make sense? And uh furthermore, I am not a good manager of people. I'm very good at figuring out systems. I'm very f very, very good at figuring out processes. I am not a good manager of people. I have certain Achilles heels, including uh unreasonable impatience and perfectionism and other things.

that lead me to be very difficult to work with, uh and very difficult to work for. Uh certainly. And I and I and I don't wear those as a badge of honor. I think those are handicaps in many respects, and there's no way that I could possibly be the CEO of, say, a publicly traded company. It would not the I wouldn't pass go in a situation like that. So I have my sweet spot. Other people have their sweet spots and you are gonna have your sweet spot. And um uh I I wouldn't judge yourself harshly at all if that ends up being

uh sort of a a special purpose weapon inside a company for doing X, Y, and Z, right? But The way you test So I would

I would take what it is you think you could do. When you quit your job and do that now. I wouldn't I wouldn't test those Assumptions. when you've already cut the umbilical cord and you no longer have the financial security of a paycheck. So I would do that now.

And I've seen a lot of really, really, really, really good companies start it that way. But You know, for the sake of uh your sanity and financial security and also the security of your family to be if you're considering

Moving on that. uh I would absolutely moonlight what that's gonna mean is you're gonna have to put in extra time in addition to your job. whether it's on evenings or weekends or otherwise, and guess what? Like that is what you're signing up for if you're if you choose to be an entrepreneur. Uh if you're currently working eight hours a day for at least the first six to twelve months. You're gonna be working

Yeah, twelve, fourteen hours a day. And almost without exception, that is a foregone conclusion. Get used to that. par for the course for at least the first six or twelve months without any

of success Uh in the in in the longer term. So those are those are a few But I would

Absolutely make sure that you moonlight and test your entrepreneurial chops and develop your entrepreneurial skills while you still have full time income. Uh I think that's a very Cautious.

But ultimately intelligent way to approach things. Yeah. Any sense I appreciate your uh insight. Uh All right.

Uh hopefully that's not completely underwhelming as recommendation, but I I w I I would really I would really just fucking get to it. Like if you're gonna be an entrepreneur, you don't have to wait until you quit your job. Like start now. Like start Tonight, start this weekend. Like just fucking get on it. It's like all right, set up your Shopify. Start doing your market research to determine exactly What you're gonna test first.

And what you can dry test before you do any manufacturing, or are there options like Teespring or otherwise. that enable you to begin to kick the tires And see if what you think is gonna resonate and sell will actually resonate and sell. So on and so forth. Mm.

No, and then I mean I'm hope I'm not including on your time, but I have one more question that's not necessarily business or entrepreneurship related, and hopefully wouldn't it's not a long winded answer either. Go for it. I'll try to I'll try to I'll try to keep my inebriated ass to uh a few sentences. Go for it. Thank you. So um how would you or have you um

kind of found a foundation I had a balance a Caloric surplus. Can be a intensive hypertrophy regimen routine. But also mixed in um intermittent fasting or ketogenic. Or is it just kind of?

another binary you're either doing one or the other, or any kind of way to mix the to you know some capacity. Yeah, I would say you're doing either well at least in my in my case, you're doing one or the other. So right now I'm in Tequila, chocolate chip cookie.

like bull bullshit caloric surplus mode because I've been having a tough week. So I've been just completely blowing every rule and um B yeah, basically aging and dying as quickly as possible. While getting fat in the process. So there'd be blending. Yeah, there's kind of that like garbage mode, which is what I'm in right now. I try not to do that too too often, but I'm I'm currently there'cause I've I've had a motherfucker of a couple of weeks. And uh then you have the programmatic

Hypertroфі uh likely high insulin growth mode, which is very much performance focused and not longevity focused. And uh I will schedule periods during which I

achieve ketosis and that is very frequently through fasting. So I will and this is something that should be done with medical supervision, but I will do Generally speaking, th a minimum of three contiguous days of fasting per month. And then I will do five to ten day fasts at least once per year, ideally three to four times per year. And that is something that you should speak with your doctor about. Uh

but otherwise I do not generally sustain long periods of ketosis because I find it so Dietarily boring as all Fuck, it's awful. It's really, really boring. And this is particularly true if you remove dairy, which I've tried to do because my lipid profile goes sideways if I consume cheese and dairy while in ketosis, which is something that I've identified.

Uncommon. In fact. So I treat The I would say performance focused periods. as quite separate from my

longevity slash autophagy focused periods, which could involve fasting, it could involve going hypocaloric, it could involve intermittent fasting, it could involve fast mimicking diets. or any number of other things. I don't currently use anything like metformin or rapamycin, but at some point could incorporate one or both of those. and so on and so forth. Uh but I do treat those as quite separate. Much like

reflects a certain uh caloric load and macronutrient ratio. That I tend to alternate between. I don't I I I don't try to achieve both at the same time.

An extent. No mean back in I really um appreciate the time, like I was freaking out and ecstatic that I made the short list and um Appreciate you giving me a call and It will give you time to help him be out there.

And uh I think I'm just curious to know like when can I take you to lunch sometime when you're in Salt Lake. Well you know what? I might throw it up on social when I'm next there, so you can keep an eye out for that. But I can't make any promises beyond that. However Uh I would like to ask that you just fucking get after it. So we're recording this on a Thursday, so I'd say f this weekend. You know, g you are now an entrepreneur starting right now. So Don't quit your job.

And get started on Testing the rest of it in your off hours. I think Much too. I appreciate it. Of course, my pleasure. Have a great night.

Nine. Hello? Hello? This is Joseph. Mm

Dale. Joseph. Timothy This is Timothy. Good evening.

How are you, sir? I'm doing well. I am Uh Yours. So please fire away. What can I help with? What can I answer? If anything.

First uh Like most people, I'm sure, I want to thank you for everything. Um I found your book through um The barbell shrug guys. Yeah. Yeah, good crew.

Yeah. Um And uh Because of them I found podcasts and I found you and found your books and I've become one of your uh

What thousand true fans? Um, as Kevin Kelly would say. So Thank you. Thank you for listening. Well Thank you for doing what you do. So

Um So I know You You have a lot of projects and you're always um You got a shit ton of balls in the air.

Um Yeah, and I consider myself kind of a jack of many trades. Or uh a dilettante training, if you will. And um with that comes like I have a diverse group of interests and things I like to

I'm always trying to pursue something different. Um, and you've talked several times about the advice that you were given when it comes to picking projects that you only have like six rounds or bullets a year to pull the trigger on. Um, and the more that you try to

If you try any more It pulls you in too many directions. So Uh. How do you pick projects and how do you know what to pull the trigger on and what to let go?'Cause I'm

Constantly trying to Always like the next shiny object. So No, this is a good question. It's very timely for me as well because quite frankly I've taken on too many projects and also realized that many of the projects I'm working on currently our legacy projects. In other words

The reasons for starting them seemed valid a year ago, two years ago, six months ago. And now With New information with

The uh uh ability to test those projects, some of which have underperformed There's an inclination to continue doing those things we've invested a lot into. uh due to sunk cost fallacy and so on. And I'm at a point right now where I'm reassessing not only the projects that I might do, new projects, but really putting under scrutiny a lot of my current projects.

And the way that I'm going about that right now is number one doing a lot of hypothetical journaling. And nam namely If I stop doing X, what might be

the upside. What might how how might it be a good thing or a great thing? projects that I've put a lot of energy, time, capital resources into, right? And forcing myself to write out a full page of bullets or a full page of sentences for each of these projects that is consuming a disproportionate amount of my time, primarily. So if we're looking at

eighty twenty analysis, which is something I come back to repeatedly, Pareto's Law and so on, from four hour work week in elsewhere that I've written about it. Where I'll ask myself, what are the twenty percent of projects right now that are consuming eighty percent or more of my time? Or what are the twenty percent of projects or relationships that are currently Producing eighty percent. or more of the phone calls, conference calls, email, and other types of in most cases noise, right? And those go on the chopping block for consideration uh for elimination. And really what I've realized for myself and I'm what I'm going through right now is recognizing that It's always easier.

to look at the shiny new project. versus looking at your current roster and deciding which children to kill in term uh as it relates to projects. So I'm trying very hard not to say yes to new things until I've streamlined my current operations. Right? If you're ten percent from the breaking point at all times and you take on more projects, it's a foregone conclusion that eventually that's not going to work. And uh so currently I literally just did this last night I sit down, I'm spending time on morning pages.

Uh as as I've written about before. So Julia Cameron, Morning Pages. And uh I'm also doing a eighty an eighty twenty analysis on the positive side. Uh and that that applies on on a few different dimensions. Number one is financial, right? So I'm looking at where the income is actually coming from and what are the the the handful of projects or activities

In my case, let's just say podcast. uh that generally generate the vast majority of monthly annual income. Oh. And then looking at ways to streamline that. And the qu the question that I would ask there, which is something I've

uh wrote about I believe in Tribe of Mentors was what might this look like if it were easy. Uh the the way I'm answering your question may be somewhat dissatisfying, but the the point being that it's what I've learned over time is that you really need to Basically put your current projects in front of the Judge and Jury.

for possible execution before you even consider what to say yes to in the new category. On the new category, what I might look at Or Projects that or tasks that make

the other possible projects and tasks either Irrelevant or much easier. For instance, I'm looking at uh say I I'll give you a list of projects that could be on my plate. One would be doing another book similar to Tribe of Mentors, where I have a hundred to two hundred

Experts of various types weighing in answering the same set of or similar set of questions. The next could be I work on a feature film screenplay that I then intend to Produce

And direct or at least produce. Uh then I could put on that same list I want to from soup to nuts, start to finish.

beg, borrow, and steal to get Robert Rodriguez's attention to from the first word of the screenplay to the finished, work on a handful of short films. And um and so on and so forth. And uh what what uh if I look at those three I might decide that it's in my best interest to not do the the feature film first. because I would learn so much through the process with Robert before doing that. that it would behoove me to tackle a handful of short films.

or even one or two, so that that will better inform the decisions I make with the higher stakes project which be the future film. I may further decide That it makes sense. To do another book. where perhaps I invite

the twenty to fifty figures in entertainment and feature film and so on who I might later want to collaborate with. To contribute. In some fashion. Right. And in that sense I think about the logical progression that will make each subsequent project easier.

I remember I I heard it said at one point, this might have been from Tony Robbins, but I may be misattributing it, that we could have been who knows, any number of people in any case. In effect that we overestimate what we can achieve, say, in a day or a month, but we underestimate what we could get done in three to five years or ten years. And for me it's come down to realizing that you can do you can actually do everything, just about everything. You just can't do it at the same time. So you have to figure out the logical progression. that puts you ahead. And when in doubt, choosing projects

that help you to develop skills and relationships that transcend any single given project because You might look at, for instance uh a single project like the four hour chef, which was a tremendous amount of work. It was a huge investment of time. It was a suicidal schedule, very proud of the outcome, but ultimately from a commercial standpoint, because it was the first major acquisition through Amazon Publishing, it was boycotted everywhere and the sales were were quite disappointing to me, certainly, because We didn't have the distribution necessary.

And you could look at that as an abject failure, but in doing that for print distribution I got to know the people at HMH, Houghton Mifflin, Harcourt, which then went on to publish Tools of Titans and Tribe Mentors, both of which ended up being number one. So I developed the relationship with those people, was able to kick the tires learn their strengths and weaknesses while also developing other skills that then later informed

bigger projects, arguably speaking. Uh so that's that's a long answer. Uh but I would encourage you to also pick up a book. It's very short. I've read it dozens of times called The Effective Executive. In fact, saying it right now makes me realize that I should reread it myself, but the effective executive by Peter Drucker would be one place uh that I would also turn to as a resource.

when trying to make decisions about your time, which ultimately every decision or almost every decision comes down to. Um those would be a few. guidelines that I would Suggest. uh at least as having been helpful for me in the past.

So So just to Basically figure out what you're doing. That's sucking all the energy.

that you could be using on something that you would care more about. And get rid of those and then go back and uh if when you're picking new projects Figure out what your end goal is and figure out the best project.

that will get you the skills to get you the end goal even if it doesn't take you directly there. Right. The pr the the progression of projects. that will get you to one longer term objective, even if it's just a placeholder. That may totally change, but as long as you're amassing skills

those are more adaptable than is important the report card for any single project, at least if you're thinking longer term. So that would be Yeah, that'd be my recommendation. Uh Alright, if you have one more that's short, I'll take a stab at it, but otherwise uh

We can uh we can decide how to how to make it before. You always talk about your your five people. Who are your five people? Yeah, this is uh a good question and the five people change. Uh so I I would say that very often they are I mean, they're almost always close friends of mine, just by by virtue of the question, you know, who are the five people you associate with most. And for those people who don't have the context, uh I and many other people have said, you know, you're the average of the five people you associate with most, whether it's physically, emotionally, psychologically, whatever it might be. Uh

Remotely, I still spend a lot of time with close friends of mine who I admire and aspire to be more like in certain ways. Naval Ravakant. Kevin Rose. Mm-hmm. Matt Mullenweg would would all be on my list. Then looking at, say, people closer to me geographically now, since I live in Austin, Texas, you would have Robert Rodriguez, I think Aubrey Marcus, CEO of Onit, actually has a lot figured out and not only figured out, but implemented in a very systematic way. that uh is is hard to appreciate until you've actually spent a lot of time around him. Uh and

So forth and so on. Uh I would say Ray Dalio is also on that list. I don't I don't spend as much time with him as I would like, but certainly from a reasoning from and planning from first principle's perspective, one of the more impressive guys that you'll ever come across. So th those are a few folks on my list and they all have a lot of writing and recording out there. So it's possible to learn from them even if you don't know them. directly. Uh

All right, my friend. Well I tell what I need to keep drinking and keep keep dialing. So you have a wonderful night. And uh appreciate the questions. Oh Hi, this is Regina. Oh my God. This

Hi. This is Tim Ferris. I'm looking at your area code. It is late as hell where you are. I'm not gonna do it. I um Yeah, it it's late, but it's okay. Are you game for A short conversation.

I am. Yeah. All right. Perfect. Well I guess uh I guess it's what is it? It's probably like two thirty in the morning or something like that where you are, maybe one in one thirty in the morning. In any case Uh

I am uh Well warmed up. And happy to try to answer any questions that you might have. I I can't make any quality guarantees, but I will certainly give it a shot. So how can I help? Uh so first thank you for calling. My pleasure. Um

And I guess My first question is Since I am the last call. How much have you partaken? Ah.

Fine question. I've had I would say five moderate glasses of So I'm I'm very much uh I'm not gonna say levitating, but um

I feel light on my feet, which I think is more a reflection of the alcohol than anything else. But I'm not completely incoherent. So It's a good middle ground, I th I would say. Yeah. That's decent then.

I guess my question for you would be a good one,'cause I always have a hard problem with it. How do you come up with questions? to ask people to um ask the right questions to be a good interviewer so that um you are getting to know them very well or getting the right answers or the answers are interesting for your listeners. Uh the the way I approach that is not thinking of my listeners at all, quite frankly. I ask the questions that relate to personal pains or personal goals or dreams that I have.

And I assume that that will apply to some percentage of my listeners, but it's A very personal. Journey for me. And uh there there there's a bit more planning to it in the sense that if I'm talking to someone who is very, very frequently interviewed, who has a lot of public exposure, then I will try to avoid questions that are frequently asked. for the first, say, twenty to thirty minutes of the interview.

Uh, but if we're looking at the and a focus on my own personal needs that drives The questions I ask. Okay.

Yeah, that makes sense. You've been asked quite a lot of questions and you've told us quite a lot. Um I guess over the years about um things that probably we already had Questions for

Um, I would like to know the answer to because I struggle with that just in general personally,'cause I'm more of a listener. Sana Talker. Mm. So um even amongst like dating or a friend or something like that, I find it hard to come up with questions that make the other person feel like I'm interested because I'm usually the type of person that's like anything that I'm told or how things just unfold naturally

is how I um I guess I feel comfortable. Yeah. The questions don't have to be Yeah, I mean the questions don't have to be sophisticated at all. In fact, th one way to ask questions is just to be quiet. So I was told by Cal Fussman, who wrote the What I Learned column for Esquire for decades

Primarily wrote. that column interviewed everyone from George Clinty to Gorbachev to Uh President Bush and so on. And every single celebrity in between. You don't have to ask questions per se to be a good conversationalist, but there are also very, very short

Questions that you can ask. following almost any statement from someone else, such as You know, what did you learn from that? Or how did that make you feel? Uh there are they're very, very short questions that you can ask. That can then prompt someone to talk for

Uh it doesn't have to be anything groundbreaking or particularly Innovative. And in fact

If you try to come up with really clever questions, it very often comes off as disingenuous or artificial. Uh so s simple tends to work really well. In my experience. Okay. Um well I guess like to piggyback off of that, my other

um things and I always feel like I'm asking a question that might be a little too personal. Do you ever feel that way, like when you're thinking of things or flowing with a conversation, like, Can I ask a question or is this too much? What would be an example of a question you might ask that would be too personal? I don't know, sometimes

I guess it's for me, I'm the type of person that I grew up Like as a child when I was younger, I grew up with a lot of like my family members being older than me because I'm the youngest. God was always in that situation where it was like in a child's face in a child's place, you don't ask that question or

you know, um, you only talk when spoken to kind of thing like when I was younger. And it's kind of um rolled over. So any even something as simple as If I'm dating someone or we're like having questions to get to know each other. um asking anything, like how to know um which questions asking about the past are asking about um

You know, past. Um People that dated or things like that. like how you know, what happened at the end of the last relationship. Like sometimes I feel like that question might be a little too personal for someone. Um, just asking them off of that and I kinda wait for that conversation to be brought up by them so that it's brought up on the way they're comfortable with.

Um, so I guess that kinda stops me from asking a lot of the questions that I am curious about because I don't wanna come off too forward. Uh well I don't know if the questions are too personal. They might just be too early. Right. Yeah. In a context like that.

you don't want to jump from like the intellectual equivalent of Like a pat on the shoulder to like heavy petting and Ten seconds flat, right? You don't want to just Emo emotionally sideswipe someone where they're like, holy shit, like this woman's asking me about like my most embarrassing, humiliating moment of my life, and we barely got drinks, right? Okay, this is this is this is too much for me to handle. Uh

Is that the only context or are there other context? Is it primarily in a dating context that you're concerned about this, or are there other context where this affects you? Um, well, uh for the past year I I still learning how to be a travel agent. So you know, I can say I was just asking the qualifying questions, asking the right questions. um asking questions that build report. So um

Sometimes, you know, like you read someone and some people tell you things that you may not have even wanted to know, but they just kinda roll along with the conversation and they let themselves like they just talk. and that kind of way I feel more comfortable. But then when it's an instance where you have someone Who you wanna try'cause I'm kind of an introvert, so it's uh a lot easier for me to listen to someone else talk when I should be to try to facilitate that conversation to make it flow so that it does seem natural, like I'm

um having a conversation with someone but also getting the information I need to give them um the product that they're looking for. 'Cause they don't know necessarily what they're looking for. That's why they've come to us. So I have to ask them the questions to get those answers to provide on something that makes them feel like I understand. Yeah, totally. Uh so the uh first and foremost, being an introvert is not a Handicap.

Uh, I am very much I would view myself as an introvert who can pretend to be an extrovert for limited periods of time. Yeah. Don't get fancy. So for instance, when someone's telling you something. You can just say Tell me more about that.

Really, give me an i give me an example. Could you tell me more about that? How does that make you feel? Why is this important? I mean there are ha there are questions like that which are very, very simple. That keeps someone talking and eventually they're going to give you

that nugget of information that helps you to better design a solution for them or find the answer to a specific need they had that which they couldn't articulate if you simply asked them what do you need. They wouldn't be able to give you the right answer. Uh, so s I w I mean if you really just had five to ten of these follow-up questions noted down on a piece of paper in front of you, you you would be able to pick and choose, which by the way is exactly what I often do or did

at least for the first hundred podcasts that I had on on this show. So it's it's there there's no shame in that, I think that it's very very helpful to have a go to portfolio of follow up questions which are very, very short and very, very simple to keep people talking. uh in in at least a sales context. And that's true for in my experience for dating as well.

If you didn't want to ask about how their last relationship ended Right. Like well how did you end up using Tinder? Like how how long have you been doing da What led you to that? Right. You can ask questions which get them to the same end, which out with without coming off as like the psycho who's going for the jugular

Right away. Do you know what I mean? And like trust me, I've I've been that I've been that person, right? Like I get it. But it's like you can you can you can kinda tiptoe around it while leading them Two. the story of what brought them

without being exceptionally direct about it. And uh for instance, if I am interviewing someone Who's dealt with a scandal. And my podcast isn't about scandals, it's not about gotcha, but maybe I want to explore the emotional terrain. that reflects how they reacted to some very difficult set of circumstances.

If I if I ask them directly How did you respond to this event that happened when such and such person accused you of such and such thing. They're gonna shut down. That is a non starter. But if I ask them And I know something happened in within the last three years and I asked Amida could you could you tell me

People listening to this podcast will think Based on your bio. Based on all the successes you've had, that every time you step up to the plate you hit home runs. And I feel like that is inspiring on one hand, but very uh intimidating on the other. So I'd like to try to humanize you a bit. Can you tell us about a really difficult

situation or circumstance in the last handful of years and how you responded to it. Right. Framing it that way opens the door to allow them to introduce it without hitting them with a full frontal assault that is gonna make them defensive. Okay.

That makes sense, yeah. So that's that's an indirect way to approach something. that allows someone else to feel like they're taking the initiative and introducing a topic that may be uncomfortable to them. Okay, yeah. And I think that's my biggest problem is because I'm afraid to ask the question

In any way. So I don't And then the other person maybe feels like Oh, if she knows she's not a good conversationalist, or she doesn't care. um to ask anything about me because she never asked any questions that are, you know, deeper than the typical questions. So I can ask indirect questions.

that makes the conversation start falling and gives them control over what they tell me. Furthermore. I would I would recommend that you practice when it doesn't matter. Right. So don't just practice with sales prospects. Don't just practice

With people you're dating you have the hots for and that you want to have you know, babies with. Don't do that. Like wait like actually you know what I mean? Where you're like, Oh my God, this one could be the one. Like that's not the time to practice. The time to practice is when you're like talking to like fucking Joe Blow and Lion at Starbucks. You're like, all right, I don't give a shit what this guy thinks. Like that's the time to pr that's the time to practice. And it's the it's the same skill set. It is the same toolkit, it is the same portfolio of go to questions

that you can utilize on a regular basis so you develop a level a baseline level of comfort with this repertoire so that you can then as second nature use it very naturally when it matters. So that would be my one of my recommendations is Practice when it doesn't matter. Whether that is negotiating, a pickup line, a follow up question, a simple way of bridging one topic to the next.

really go out of your way to practice when it doesn't matter. Uh. Yeah. That makes that makes sense. So then my other question would be to to follow up from that. Um

how I actually don't have a lot of situations where I could ask those questions where it doesn't matter because I pretty much just go to work, go to the gym and then come home. Yeah. Um

So I mean well actually I guess I've kind of already been doing that. Um,'cause I I cross it. So it's you know, like eight people, ten people. um the classes the times that I go to. And I've kind of already been trying to Um

talk more with people at class as opposed to just like going to class, going to the shower and leaving. Um, and I've kind of already been doing that, but I guess I can start making a set list of of follow up questions that help. uh move the conversation along to get to know the people that I'm talking about.

Um, that definitely helps having things set already'cause I work better that way when I kinda already know how I'm supposed to do things. Yeah, I mean you have uh Write get an index card, write down the five questions and just make it happen. You're not gonna find time to do it, so you have to create time to do it. And that could be

You know, the boyfriend watching the dog while his girlfriend's doing some f God awful you know, Francis CrossFit work out or whatever. That's all right. That's the guy you're like, all right, that's my dude. That's the guy I'm practicing on. You walk over, like, hey, what's your fucking dog's name? Oh cool, really. Like how do you choose that dog? Oh wow. What's the story behind that? Right? That's another good question. Like what's the story behind X? Huh. How'd you decide on why? Huh?

That's interesting. That's interesting to me. Tell me more about that. Right. Like tell me more about that. It's such a lazy, useful Statement. Right. Yeah. How did you decide that? How did that make you feel? That sounds crazy. I don't know how I'd respond to that. Okay, boom.

Then you have another three you just bought a three to five minute story. And just practice that stuff. You have to you're not going to find time to do it. So you have to make time to do it. If you make it a priority. it will serve you. If you don't make it a priority, it's not gonna help you. Uh so that would be In my drunken stupor. A Yodel like line that may or may not help.

No, I I think that was a very coherent um answer to my question given the fact that you've had five tonight. Uh fantastic. Well I I should let you get some sleep and I should probably also take my dog out for a walk. And do the same thing. So uh I think I'm calling Tim. My pleasure. And good luck. This stuff, honestly, listen to my first few podcasts, especially the first one when Kevin Rose is busting my balls. It's rough. It's really, really rough. Like this is a craft. This is

something you can learn and practice and I I really believe Anyone can get better at it because it is so straightforward if you make the time. how you can deliver questions to humans you encounter. It's not it's not difficult.

Where it's not complex. You just have to put yourself out there and endure a small amount. of discomfort with the uncertainty of how someone will respond. And if you're willing to do that, you can get a lot better at this in a very, very short period of time. Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share

the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up. in the uh the world of the esoteric as I do, it could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a little tiny bite. of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out, just go to fourhourworkweek.com, that's fourhourworkweek.com all spelled out, and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it. This episode is brought to you by 99 Designs. Whether you need a logo, custom website, app, book cover, or anything else, 99 Designs was created to make great design accessible to everyone, that's you, and to make the process as easy as possible. I've used 99 designs for years now. I've used them for book covers. some mock-up for the four-hour body, which went on to become a number one Mirror Towns bestseller, illustrations of all different types for the multi-volume The Tau of Seneca, which you can check out, and other graphic design projects for a long time now. And I've been very impressed by the quality of their designers and illustrators. And you don't have to take my word for it, you should check out some of my projects.

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