#37 - Mastering Amazon FBA

I built and sold an Amazon FBA business. For me, no VC money, no employees, I was working full time. I started with 5,000 bucks in my little Chromebook. Building on the back of Amazon, I mean it has wrist, we can talk about that, but also has this huge scale and leverage that you can generate. Alright, I got the three first products, this is gonna be awesome. Look for enough demand for not so much competition.

I done all my product research and I source it out of China, I get this logo off of Fiverr, like I feel like all right I got the right pieces in place. And I get it in, I launch it. And it is a total fail. I got burned so bad the first time. I'm hurting because I do not wanna stay in the career at midnight, so I'm feeling like so much is riding on this and it's just gotta work. Once I got a little taste of it, it was like okay, now it's on. That first year played almost six figures in revenue. It almost didn't feel real until the deposits hit in the bank and I'm like, oh my god, people are really buying this.

The hardest thing to overcome was really my own self-doubt. I mean it felt like every order I placed I was like putting my whole net worth on the line. It was crazy. We put the business on and within I wanna say a week or ten days there were seven full price or higher offers. People can access these types of businesses and with a pretty small bet like create a life changing business for themselves and their families. to carry something from kind of the idea in your head to building it to scaling it to selling it like you gotta want it.

pretty asymmetrical. Like I started with five thousand bucks and it turns into a seven figure business. Five million is not enough. Ten million dollars. Fifteen. Hundred million dollars. one or two people in a bedroom actually the threats to these like giant multi-billion dollar companies because you have creativity and you have nothing to lose. Add another zero to that price, buddy. Add two more zero.

No. Every week we sit down with self-made millionaires and ask them. How did you do it? I didn't start a podcast. I started my own personal business school.

And the teachers are the successful entrepreneurs behind the biggest brands and businesses that we find today. I wanted to know the real stories, with all the details. Like How did you get your first hundred customers? What did it feel like when shit hit the fair? I ask him. How do you spend your money now that you're rich?

And what would you do if you were starting over from scratch again today? If you're like me and you want to own your own business instead of living a nine to five job, this is the podcast for you. The hustle presents my first million. Paul, what's up, man? How are you? You g you flew in uh today Today, right? I did. Uh last night. Yep. Wait last night. Um I was excited for this. You We're a lit you're a listener who is on the show. Is that correct? You you Exactly That's the the New American Dream. I reached out to you and and here I am. So Yeah, and I liked your story um because you did something that uh I think not a lot of people Well, I'll I'll put it differently.

You did you built a Amazon FBA business. And um I've seen a lot about FBA, but the people who tell me about FBA are always selling me something for FBA. And so um I hate that. And uh I like just talking to people who um If you if you're telling me you got rich, then you probably don't need to sell me something for nine ninety nine type of thing. Exactly. Um so so I'm excited to talk to you because you built a successful Amazon FBA business.

And uh you're here to tell the tale. Uh what made you want to do this? Well, for me, when I was learning the business podcasts were Everything like podcasts, Facebook groups, Reddit threads. Um, I feel like I've gotten so much from podcasts, so Hopefully someone will either get a little bit inspired or get educated. Like you were listening to them or you went on them and that's it. Listening, no, listening completely, yeah. There's this guy named Manny Coates who does an Amazon podcast

never met me, doesn't know me. I mean, I probably wouldn't have a million dollar business without without him. So there's there's all these people that have been really influential via podcasts that Um, it kind of is fun to come full circle and say, like, here's my story on a podcast. Right. And so so what is your story? Okay, so we're here in my first million Um how did you make your first million? Just let's start with the the basics. So I s I built and sold an Amazon FBA business. Okay. And let me I can give you kind of the the scoop. So FBA people don't know is essentially selling on Amazon, right? So that gives you access to two of the most powerful things out there, which is millions of Amazon households, prime customers.

in Amazon's distribution network. So say we want to create a product Sean, you know Uh cell phone case. Sean cell phone case. We put your Your handsome face on there. Yep. Um we can list it on Amazon. All right, reached millions of prime households. And when someone buys that product You we're gonna use Amazon's distribution. They're gonna do pick, pack, and ship, we don't have to do a thing. And then we get paid. So the net of reaching all those customers and having their distribution means we can scale up a huge business, a seven figure business.

with just one person. Like for me, no V C money, no employees. I was working full time. I started with you know five thousand bucks in my little Chromebook like so Building on the back of Amazon. I mean it has its wrist, we can talk about that, but it also has This huge Scale and leverage that you can generate. I love it. And so so FBA stands are fulfilled by Amazon, for those that don't know what we're talking about.

And uh it's similar to m other e commerce businesses, but Amazon is your in this case, it is the main selling channel for you. Was it the main sale of the channel? It was the main selling channel. And then secondly, Amazon is the sort of uh back of the house. It is the the the sort of pick pack and ship. Uh, so that you can focus on growing the business and not just the operations, not have to hire staff and but get a warehouse and do all these other things in order to fulfill your orders. Is that correct? A hundred percent. Yep, you nailed it. And so what um what were you doing before you started this business? Yeah, so I was uh so I started the business in twenty sixteen. I'm about ten years out of school at that point. I'm kinda reaching this inflection point where I was really not happy in following kinda the the right path, uh quote unquote the right path. What's the right path? Well, you know, you kinda

or whether it's society or whatever else, you kinda hear this throughout you go to school, like I went to school, I studied accounting, I got my CPA. Worked for you know g good firms and the at the end of it I just wasn't that engaged or happy and I got really scared like You know, I'm early thirties, mid thirties now. Is this gonna be my next five years, ten is this is this it? Is this all there is? And that scared me so much. Right. And that was really the what lit the fire of like There's got to be like I gotta build my own life raft out of it. Because you were winning.

The normal game. Right. Go to school. Get a good job. Do well in that job. And that's a scary feeling when you're like I'm winning but I feel like I'm losing. Yeah, it totally is. Yeah, it's a really scary it feels it's sort of like this dissonance in your head. Like I thought I was doing the right things to win this game. And f it's not like I was financially that far ahead either, because like

You know, you end up getting a decent car, a nice house. And now you you know, we have a kid recently, so it's like Wait a minute, I don't even like Playing this game. And I'm not really getting where I thought I was gonna go. So that's kinda what spurred like it's sort of now or never time we're gonna be having a kid in the near future and Um I mean uh as you probably know, like having a having a kid and starting something are they hard to do at the same time. So I felt like all this pressure, like I gotta go and I gotta go now and get something going. And so do you remember what uh do you remember the the sort of the day you made that decision or you you really felt like okay, I gotta do this?

Well, it really comes back to these podcasts, like I said, I mean everything from kinda marinating in the Tim Ferris world to this this guy, like I said, Manny kind of learning all that. And then I could see myself like I can see myself doing this and you don't need an insane amount of capital. Like I'm living in Minneapolis. I'm not, you know, out here gonna pitch to VCs. It's like it felt Like I could I could start it and I said You know, I the the thing I I like about Amazon is it's pretty asymmetrical. Like I started with five thousand bucks and it turns into a seven figure business. So it feels like hey, I'll make a small bet that's gonna really sting if this thing just goes to zero, but I can pick my life up and keep

go on it, even if I, you know, lose every dollar I put into it. Right. And you um what were you I like this question. What were you making Before you quit your job. Uh to do this. What was their salary as a as a CPA? Is that right? Yeah, transition to finance. So I think I wanna say it was making I don't know, a hundred and five. Yeah, it goes pretty far. It's a comfortable life and like I don't I don't wanna say I'm ungrateful or you know, come off like uh You know, t totally out of touch. But I just on the inside at the end of the day when you lay your head on the pill, like I just didn't feel fulfilled.

Um so yeah, so it was comfortable, but it just wasn't something was missing. Right. And so okay, so you you do this. And by the way, we're not gonna be able to say exactly what the product is or exactly the company name uh for for sort of non disclosure reasons, because when you sold the business, you agreed to keep things confidential. Uh but we'll talk around it and and I think more importantly than The specifics of what your product was, it's the mechanics, right? It's the mindset you had to go into it. It's how you figured out how to actually build this thing. It's the mechanics about what it means to be to sell online. Um and then lastly sort of the the the happy ending which is

uh being able to sell this for seven figures and now you know uh you're you're a new. You you've you sort of achieved the thing you set out to achieve. Um so tal talk to me about getting it off the ground. So you you decide I gotta do something You're inspired by these podcasts. What does that really mean? First did you start it as a side hustle or did you quit and go go full on? First started a side hustle. I wasn't

Uh you know, I was optimistic but not so not so optimistic, I was ready to stake my whole future on it. So I started on the side. My first product I can I can say what that was. I started um With this. Have you ever heard of Poor Coffee? Yeah, San Francisco. Yeah. Um So I started with this accessory for Poor Coffee. And it was made out of wood and I thought like you know, I'd done all my product research and I also like to choose things that were kinda trending upward and this seems sort of like a hipster like cool thing. It's gonna keep trending and growing. Like all right, I got the great first product, Poor Coffee Stance. This is gonna be awesome.

And I you know, I source it out of China, I get this logo off of Fiverr, like I'm I feel like I already got the right pieces in place. And I get it in, I launch it, and it is a total fail. It is it flops. It's it turns out Products made out of wood can break, they can crack. Um And that's what happened with this. And I'm getting one star reviews on Amazon. I'm getting all these angry customers. Um, so I'm feeling Pretty defeated at that point. I was able to You know, I probably put five thousand bucks and maybe got four thousand bucks out of it. So it took like

Small loss. Um But how much time did you put into that? Maybe three months. Three months. And I learnt it was like You got a test run. I got so much learning out of that from how to source out of China to how to, you know, optimize a product on Amazon to deal with customers to like it the learning wasn't valuable and if I can't if I would have quit there, obviously I would have never hit the second product. But like without that I might not ever You know, been able to grow it to what I did. So so I

I take a hit there and I'm down kinda licking my wounds and visiting my parents. in Arizona and we start talking And they casually are mentioning what turns out to be my next product now, right? Um And I think you mentioned this recently on the podcast. Like I was I'm a big believer in like the notes app and like

Observing everything. Like we filter out so much. And I was kinda in this frame where everything I was doing, I'm like, Could this be a business? Could this be a business? And I'm gonna put in the notes app and I'm gonna come back to it and I'm gonna see what happens with it. And this was I relate to that. Yes. Yeah, I got probably thirty of'em, you know, at least that in my phone. So You can turn your brain into a scanning machine for opportunity. You can. If you're wired if you if you start thinking that way, you won't even have to try. Your brain will just start seeing everything. Your friend will be telling about something and you couldn't give less of a shit about what they're telling you, except for the fact that you're like, Huh Who is that is that made in China? How much does that sell for? So do you buy do you buy multiple of these or just one? You know, you start assessing the business potential of everything. It's so true. You start deconstructing it, like wow, I bet I could get that out of China for three bucks. I bet it's it's uh But you just gotta flip the switch because then all of a sudden you do that. And then you can marry it up to there's these great tools you can do research on Amazon to kinda see you're looking for So let's talk about some of those tools. So you you start to get this idea of like what about this product? What about this? What's the first step of research for you when you were like, Okay, how do I figure this out? Is this good or bad?

Yeah, so there's a couple of tools and essentially what the t what you're trying to do is look for enough demand But not so much competition, right? So there's sort of this sweet spot. Like if you have no demand, and uh you you can be the only one standing there, but no one's gonna buy it in the The opposite is true. So there's a couple of tools, Helium Ten, Jungle Scout. If people want to learn about those, go check them out. They're great tools to learn, you know What's selling on Amazon.

Um so this product I zero went on and like all right I I See what happens. So Um I run the same play. This again is twenty sixteen. I probably put now my four thousand dollars that I have allocated for for this into it. And the four thousand bucks is going mostly towards the minimum order. Exactly. Yeah. Yep. So I think I ordered five hundred units

uh at the start, which was the minimum order. Found my supplier in Alibaba. Right. I'm up at you know, nine, ten PM at night talking on the phone trying to You know. Come off as that I have half a clue what I'm doing. And you're private labeling a product. Private labeling a product. You weren't saying let's invent something together. You were saying I want that. Was it did you even modify it or you're like I want that, but here's my brand logo colors, et cetera. I did some modification. I think especially now, um, you gotta do more than just be a total me too. The modification doesn't need to be big. So like For me, I added something to my product that literally cost me ten cents. Um I think you know m say my product cost seven bucks.

With this little addition of seven ten. But the thing is you're trying to increase the perceived value of your product. So if I have product A and product B and I've got something else in product B that That A doesn't have. Alright, I might pull a bunch of buyers from that for the low, low cost of, you know, five, ten cents. Yep. So there was slight modification, but it wasn't like a reframe of you know, inventing stuff, doing all these sketches, nothing like that. It was like let's get some nice branding and let's make it appealing to people online. Alright, it's 2020, new year, it's gonna be a big year, and you know we had to come in with some new awesome partners. So for January, we are partnering up with Microsoft.

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And now for anyone who's ever tried to source products from China or Alibaba or overseas in general There's The natural sort of like there's a language barrier slightly, there's Uh the biggest thing is trust, right? So how did you have any missteps in terms of sourcing the product or any bad experiences where they ship you something and it's junk? Um did you how did you navigate that? No, that was I was really scared about that at the start because you the way you pay, you pay thirty percent to start production and then seventy percent when Production's complete.

And I thought, you know, they're gonna just take my money and run. I'll never hear from the the re chat messages will just re be unanswered. Um, so honestly it's I know there was never anything like that. You know, there's always little quirks and little quality things and you know, you ask for something and you get something else. Like that's just part of the nature of the beast. Uh you know, big problems or issues.

Okay, so you get this product source and we can say it's uh Uh what's the sort of generic way we can talk about the the the space you were in? We can so there's different categories on Amazon. So we can say it's in the sports and outdoors category. Sports and outdoors category. So you source this product, um You you you Spend about how long to to do that. That takes a month, that takes a month and a half. About a month. About a month. And um how does round two go? So round one kinda got your ass kicked.

What happens in round two. So round two, so I think I get the product up the fall of twenty sixteen. Um And then you know, come Q four is the prime time for selling online. It can blow your mind the the amount of sales that can occur. So so I've got the product on there. My expectations are fairly low because of what happened round one. Um and it takes off pretty much from the jump. Uh there's some different things you kinda want to do to get get the wheel spinning, but it

That first year, partial year twenty sixteen Did almost six figures in revenue. So for someone going from zero to something, that that was like, wow, this is This is huge. I mean there's I'm not sure if you sold on Amazon or see it, but there's a seller app and I was like an addict just refreshing that thing like constantly. Right. And it almost didn't feel real until the deposits hit it in the bank and I'm like, Oh my god, people are really buying this right. The the product. So that's when it was like this could really be something And then kinda the rest of the journey was doubling down and trying to just

Throw it from there. And so that sounds amazing. And if I'm listening to this, I'm like, Oh, hold on. I feel like the magic step of like how the order started coming in? Like what what was that? What did you do to get it off the ground in terms of the marketing or uh acquiring customers? Yeah, so on Amazon you need to be at the top of page one if you want to get sales in the organic rank. Um there's a couple of different ways you can you can get there. It's harder now than it was then. This is somewhat like the gold rush days of Amazon that I was starting in. So it's a different time and easier than it is today. Um but you need to get to the top of page one. So a lot of a lot of times people will uh cut the price of their product pretty heavily.

Which will basically uh entice people to buy the product and then it You get in the good graces of Amazon's algorithm, you start moving up to the top of page one. So long as you're Your product's good and your service is good. You can stick there like And what did you notice for the algorithm? What did it favor? Was it reviews? Is there anything else, return rates? Uh you know, what what did it like? To me the two big variables are reviews and price. Like if if you have good reviews and you're priced competitively, like you're gonna begin the good graces of the algorithm. So those are those are so is that what you did did you did you lower the price initially to get going? I lowered the price in initially, yeah. Um

And I got some initial reviews. There's It's all sorts of funny business going on right now with reviews, but back then Um, you know, I did it the right way. I didn't engage in i in any of that funny business. I got all these legitimate reviews and uh it just started small. There wasn't that much competition then versus now a lot of things are There's still a ton of opportunity on Amazon and you can grow a a huge business today, but it is a little more saturated and and competitive now. So month one, do you remember what you did month one? Was that what you were saying six figures? Or that was Uh No, that was the first like three months. Okay. Yeah. So month one I wanna say was like ten grand. Uh And then it starts to ramp.

And then it starts to ramp, yeah, and it we gets into the the holiday season and it's how are you feeling. How you feeling at this time. I'm li I'm just pinching myself because I got burned so bad the first time and like I said, mentally I'm in a place where it's like uh I'm just I'm hurting because I do not want to stay in the career I'm in. I it's just not the right fit. So I'm feeling like so much is riding on This and it's just gotta work. And then once I got a little taste of it, it was like Okay, now it's on it. Give yourself a certain amount of time. It's like all right, I'm gonna give myself six months to try this. If I don't do this, I go back and get my job. Or did you just say, I'm doing this and w yeah. Well I kept my job, right? So I was I was still at my job. So it was kind of

You know, if I was single in my twenties maybe I would have been a been a riskier, but I was we were expecting a a kid and you know. Oh mortgage payment. So it was like I can't be irresponsible and how was that going to work that day when you're like, Well, I'm doing, you know, sixty grand a month right now in my my s my side hustle. Uh how was that? Very difficult. Very difficult to focus. Oh Uh

I have to say uh You know, I was a professional. I hope I I like to think through and through, but I can't lie, like my uh You know, my output or what I gave to the company probably wasn't everything that I I could have just because You know, it's it was so exciting, like m something else could could be hitting here. And so how long did it go before you did end up going full time?

So si twenty sixteen's when I started in the fall and it kinda ramped up and then twenty seventeen, uh, like halfway through seventeen is when my son was born and also I left the company. So that was a big Right. Um and and seventeen was uh uh just over seven figures in sales. So that's when it really started to kinda validate like this is a legit business. You're always a little bit like is this real? Is this gonna be here tomorrow? And then after you see it kinda run a certain amount of time, it's like okay, I think it is and I can I can step away and do it. So what's a healthy margin on a business? You do a million in sales Uh, for an Amazon FBA business, what's considered good, bad, mediocre, whatever, like give us a sense for the margin you should be looking for, what you actually get to keep out of the revenue. Yeah, yeah. So I I would target about twenty five percent is is good, I would say. Right. Um P P C costs, advertising costs have been creeping upwards, so I think like there's not a ton of like

high sales spots anymore where you're gonna be able to pull that margin. Um but twenty, twenty five percent is is pretty realistic. And you were advertising on Amazon itself? Absolutely. Yeah. Advertising is Key on Amazon as well, and you can do You know. Like Google, you can get on Amazon the most powerful shopping platform in the world, bid on a keyword and be the top result you know, your sponsor, but you are at the top of Amazon dot com for whatever keyword you want to get and reach millions of people. That's that is

serious power right there. And so at your let's say, when you're in your your stride What percent of your sales were coming from the sponsored link versus organic? So it was probably seventy percent organic and thirty percent sponsored. Okay. And w were there any sort of key things you did that were Uh because what I like about your bit what I like about what you said so far is

Um There's two types of stories. There's f the founder is a genius. It's like I was a genius for coming up with this idea. I invented this thing that didn't exist. And then when I was marketing this, I came up with this genius idea to to do something nobody else was doing. And then there's the other one which is more like reality, which is Um, Founder's Not an Idiot. And Founders Not an Idiot says I did basically all the obvious things you would expect me to do, and I did them well and I did them consistently and then then I succeeded and it didn't require an sort of a act of God in order to do it.

Were there any founders genius moments?'Cause so far you've told me a lot of the the other one, which is sort of not fumbling the ball. Um Were there any? unconventional things you did or tried that worked? The hardest thing to overcome was really my own self doubt. And uh at the start I was really uncertain. Like I'm just a I'm a fool. I'm gonna lose this money. And I was telling my wife about this idea, I'm gonna sell stuff on Amazon. I'm gonna take thousand bucks and I'm gonna Send it to China and bring product in and like

She you know, very loving, trying to be helpful from the start, but saying like are you sh looking at it like a like she would any business, trying to poke holes in it. And I remember saying like at this point, like Please just be a cheerleader because I'm already kinda hanging by a a thread like on my own belief in it. So just like tell me I can do it and then like once we get this ball rolling, then like, you know, come on in and Help me with some of the tactical stuff, but but no, there was no big thing. And I think the biggest thing is like it's all So much of stuff is right there on the internet, in Facebook groups, on podcasts, on Reddit. Like if you seek it and you really want to go out there and and do it and actually take action and and you know, do more than kinda just look at it and talk about it. Like it's there if you wanna

learn it and it doesn't take it doesn't take huge capital to build a business like this. I mean five grand is a lot of money, but it's not, you know, gonna sink someone or gonna take someone forever to save that type of money up. Did you go visit your manufacturer? I did, yeah, I think how many times did you do that and when did you do that early in the process? As you grew, or right now to vet them. So I went uh I found the manufacturer in Alibaba. And then

As I was finding them and coming out of this business, I actually had a trip book to go over to the Canton Fair, which if you don't know the Canton Fair, it's like The world's biggest there with suppliers over in China. And it was Insane. I mean anything you ever would want to source was over there. So I was going over there thinking I'm gonna find all these products, I'm gonna start my empire. Um and that was Really cool and I love

being over there. Um The Canton Fair is like I I forgot the number. It's like eight hundred football fields long or something crazy. It's the biggest expo. Yeah, it's crazy. Manufacturers to meet sort of buyers. Exactly. Yeah. So I went over there. I didn't actually find my supplier there. I kinda had him on the on the line ahead of time. Um, but it was still a really good educational experience kinda both to see different suppliers, learn more about the culture, just kinda get like in the in the head space of doing business with China.

Ah, but then I did go visit my manufacturer a couple of times. And uh yeah, it was really interesting. I mean the first night I think he just wanted to mess with me. He took me out and we were eating street food. Uh like he bought me spiders and crickets and all these things just to just see, you know, what I would do. I played right into his hands and freaked out about fuck with the American. Yeah, and he played it. He played it well. Um But it also I felt like going there cements the relationship further. So like you get, you know, maybe a little bit better pricing, a little bit better look at to make sure you get the qualities right. So I think it's such a relationship game with suppliers like whether they're gonna prioritize your shaman versus someone else's and all sorts of things. Were they supplying for your competitors too?

I believe so, yeah. I mean that's the case for a lot of A lot of these You know. Put uh outputting all sorts of different products and slapping on different labels. So yeah, they um Pretty certain they were. So you you went and you cemented the relationship, you spent some time together.

Um great. So you you did that. The other question I had was you talked about You know, the more successful you get, the bigger your orders need to get. And so you're always in this cash poor business, you know, asset rich game where the business is growing. Your asset is growing. But you continually pouring out money before it comes back.

And so Uh talk a little about how you manage that. Did you do anything with the line of credit or anything like that? Talk about some of the mechanics there. Yeah, that was I I way underestimated that. You're you're spot on. That was really a tough component of it. And you feel really Poor even though you're like I'm showing these profits on paper, but like the money immediately goes just back out of my bank account. Um so I I really just did it based on the profits of the business and drawn'em down to I mean, it felt like every order I placed, I was like putting my whole net worth

on the line. Uh which was a scary feeling, but it was kinda necessary to keep to keep fueling the growth of the of the company. So I didn't Amazon offers a line of credit once you get some establishment, the interest rate's pretty high, like but you can always pull on on that or once you've been up and running a while, but for me I just poured the profits right back in. Gotcha. So let's let's do the formula. So what on one side the inputs so five grand is what you put personal capital into the business. Right. Um Time. So you started this sort of late twenty sixteen. You sold when Uh early twenty nineteen. Early twenty nineteen.

And so Let's call it two, two and a half years, roughly, right? Yep. Um so that's the that's what came in. Um, what you got out of it. So Um so you sold this business. What multiple uh do these businesses sell for? Are these the types of things that, you know, you could be doing a million bucks and sell for ten or a million bucks you sell for a million? Yeah, so usually about a three multiple.

Oh what? Of Ebita, three of EBITDA. So it's a l you know, relative to other businesses, it's a little multiple. But you're also Amazon's a risky animal to be on. So like I think the So how did that decision to sell come up? Yeah, that was so hard because I really liked like this was like the first job, if you will, that I ever felt like I r I love this. Like I love doing this, so the idea of selling it was hard.

Um And I didn't when I started this it was all about I I want freedom, I want flexibility, I want to be around when my my son is here, I don't wanna be in commutes and in these meetings, I want like the f you know, the actual time to be here, but also kind of the mental mental health or mental clarity to be present as well. So but as I built it and it got bigger and bigger, it seemed like Alright, this is the right thing to do for my family. If we can sell this, this would go a long way. So I started uh'cause there's risk, right? That that was there's a risk, yeah. Amazon risk. Amazon can take you out in a moment's notice for something very legitimate, something not legitimate. So like I I mean I would have nightmares at night, like hey

What if I wake up tomorrow and I have the email from Amazon and I'm shut down and I gotta go through all the hoops and who knows like so that just felt really scary. And like there's probably a lot of upside left on the table, like maybe Yeah, the The The folks that bought the company from me, they can turn around and sell it for five X in a few years and that that would be I I'd be thrilled if they do that, but for me it was like to to bank the

The win. The wind just felt like uh the right thing to do. And you also mentioned uh when we were chatting before we came on here um the sort of other risks that are in in a business like this with physical inventory, you know You're you're putting a lot of money into inventory. What happens with a bad batch? What happens, you know, so talk a little bit about that. Competition or algorithm changes besides that, what else was there? Yeah. So it's you know, when I started I was bringing in five hundred units, it's pretty small. Uh like I said, five thousand bucks at the start, but It's a very cash intensive business. Growing is great, but that means your next order from your supplier is gonna be that much larger, right? So it went from these tiny little orders to you know forty foot containers that have

you know, quarter million dollars worth of inventory of them. And if something's goes wrong with that That's like I'm I'm sunk. So there's also like every shipment you have this

There's low grade fear that like, you know. Is this container gonna fall off the boat and then like my business is done. So You know, to mitigate that it felt responsible too. There's there's just various risk. You have all your eggs in that basket. So how'd you go about selling it? What how did that happen? So I used uh you had Joe Valion from Qui Light Brokerage. I used them. They were fantastic. Um I never sold a business, I didn't know this world, so they you know, I I'm a former accountant, former CPA, so like my books were were clean. That's usually pr a pretty big thing that people mess up. People mess up. That wasn't a wasn't an issue for me. Um And yeah, it was crazy. Uh we put the business on and uh within I wanna say a week or ten days there were seven offers.

full price or higher offers, which was just like mind blowing to to have that too. So that was a a super nerve wracking process and also uh an exciting process. And you went back and negotiated with all seven or took one of them, or what'd you do? Yeah, so there's negotiation. So it's like I think when I walked into it, it's like well whoever names the high number I'm gonna You know, that's what I'm gonna take, right? But when you get into it, you realize some people are uh like the guys that buy my business, I had a just a good connection with them and I thought they would really do a good job running the business. Like they knew what they were doing, they were really capable, they seemed honest, straightforward about things. Other people were a little bit like me a few years ago, like They were awesome, but like they were still sitting in their in their cube somewhere and they never touched e commerce or Amazon. I was just afraid like if they inherit this beast and like things, you know, go bad, like I'd I don't know what that looks like. So I wanna make sure I pass this someone that You thought what? You thought you'd get sued or you th what do you think would happen?'Cause who cares, right? You sell this business You didn't need this business before this business just came out of nowhere. You you built it, you sell it. I don't care if it happened. Yeah, I maybe it wasn't a rational thought. I I'm really not sure. I mean the other piece was the transition too. It's like

Uh if people know e commerce and Amazon, it makes life so much easier. They just pick it up and run versus if it was someone that never touched this, it would have been a lot of investment. But yeah, part of it probably was just an irrational fear, like they're gonna They're gonna jack this thing up and somehow I'm gonna It's all gonna get unwound and it's gonna be like a bad joke on me or something. Uh you know, we've only known each other for I don't know how long I've been sitting here, thirty minutes, maybe. Uh but I like uh I really like the your personality because uh A, you're a nice, humble guy and you did y you know, you're a smart guy. Uh but B I think It's cool to see somebody who's not uh Mr. Bravado who started a business. Uh like I've I actually think you're quite risk averse. And you just took very practical, pragmatic steps to like

approach this business and get the outcome you wanted without being like sort of hero entrepreneur. Um and there's a lot of hero entrepreneur stories out there because that's what sells, right? Somebody taking crazy risk. That's a great story. Right. Um but what I like about your story, it's a great story to me, is that Uh you were more of a conservative guy, it sounds like to me. Uh you you know, you're like, you know, I I got beat up my first time, but you lost only a thousand bucks in three months. It's like that's nothing. You know, like that's the cost of entry for business. Right. Uh but l but the way you were approaching it I think really uh t is very uh I think will be r very relatable. Um, if I'm listening to this, I'm like Okay, this it's not like this guy's from some cut from some totally different cloth than me. He's not some alien species that has this different

No fear gene. Uh it sounds like you're a regular person who did a really awesome business and I r I really like that. Cool. Yeah. Thanks for I I think it's really the truth, uh that people can access these types of businesses and with a pretty small bet, like create a life changing business for themselves and their and their families. So I think, you know, I would encourage a lot of you know, if you feel something inside of you, go for it and try it because you never know what could happen. And so you sell and you do uh is is it a clean deal, cash in the bank, or you gotta do a seller note and sort of take money down. It's mostly a clean deal with a small seller no. Okay. Yeah. And so money, uh what happens? Well tell me about that day. I think it was so s going through the process was so stressful that when it hit I was just like this big relief and it just felt

Like Like I had to run like you know, an ultra marathon from like kind of birthing this little business out and then carrying it for a few years. Then the culmination of it, it was just like pure relief. Oh and it felt really good. There was no like you know, big part it was nothing maybe like you'd think when someone sells a business and they see seven figures drop in their account, it was just like a big exhale. And so so you um You see it come in your bank account and uh what changes for you in your life, right? You said you g you you

Uh by that point, I assume you had had your your child. Yes. Um so uh what changes in your life, uh what what you what did you change in your lifestyle? Um tell us about what that's what that's like. Yeah, I mean it really was is a blessing. It was and it still is a blessing. Just You know, wealth in and of itself to me isn't kinda the end game, but it's what the money can enable and like My sound's two and a half now and like the the freedom and the flexibility and the relationship I have with him, like it wouldn't have been possible w had I still been working

You know, my normal nine to five. I have I have the time and I have I'm just present in like a really happy and open to be with one's been the best thing that's ever happened to me having ha having our son. So that honestly just kinda that time and freedom's been the best thing. And it's also given me the gift of just being able to sit back and reflect a little bit, like what do I wanna do as far you know, do next. H what type of dad do I wanna be partner. I think for me, like I was just on this treadmill, you know, going, going, going, I'm working, I'm traveling, I'm

trying to get groceries in the house. You're just going all the time and you don't like this allowed a little bit of space to to just step back and think like what do I wanna do next? What do I wanna With my life, you know. So that was a real blessing. I Right.

And so you you talk about asking yourself that question, all right, what do I wanna do now? Fail comes through, you have that sort of anticlimatic day where you you just feel relief Um, you don't go do anything like I remember talking to Michael Birch, he's he's like my probably the third or fourth episode and um you know, he sold his business for for crazy money, like eight eight hundred fifty million dollars and they they went to a movie. Like him and his wife went to a movie. Like you know, ten dollar tickets uh uh movie because he was like, I don't know what to do. Uh we haven't seen a movie in a while and I love movies. Let's go watch you know, they went they went and watched Forgetting Sarah Marshall. Um so what did you actually do that day? Oh man. I honestly it I think it was such an unremarkable day that I can't I I think my son was home from his school and I feel like we just like watched, you know, Mr. Rogers or something and like hung out and like when you're hanging out with a little kid like you you go into a whole different head space. So it wasn't

Yeah, it was just a normal thing which is actually totally fine and how I would've liked it. So it it was pretty pretty chill day. And you said you started to ask yourself what do you want to do again? So y you had option one, which A lot of people would take which is Great, I gotta win. I know how to do this now. Next time if I did it, I'd be way smarter at it'cause I know all these new things. And they jump back in and try to

You know, sort of exploit this opportunity again. You didn't do that. What Oh I really wanna like I I liked this, but I feel like it was sort of a chapter in My life and like I did it. I started it. I learned a ton and I I don't know if I have the energy to like knowing what I know now, like you gotta really

want it to carry something from kinda the idea in your head to building it to scaling it to selling it. Like you gotta you gotta want it deep down, like every single day and keep grinding, keep grinding, keep grinding. And I honestly don't know if I have that in me anymore for an Amazon business. Um, so I'm doing a little bit of Amazon consulting, which I really like because I'm actually Like when you do an Amazon business, it's a kind of a lonely existence. Like it's it's just you, you're talking to your suppliers, uh but you're just kinda rolling solo for most of it. So It's been fun. I've been working with

With uh Some companies to help them sell on Amazon. That's been pretty cool. And I'm trying to get into the content space as well, kind of leveraging so Like I said, I'm a former CPA and personal finance nerd. uh like building online businesses. So I think Sam talked about like, hey, if I was starting something new, you want a weekend business, go build a content site. These guys are in uh nerd wallet or wherever they're doing doing well. So Um

I saw the same thing, I felt the same thing as him. So that's kinda my next Yeah, shout it out. What's the website? Uh I was reading it this morning, I'm aware. Yeah, so it's called wealthfam.com. Yeah. Uh it's brand new. I'm kinda I'm still in that sort of fragile state like I was when like I haven't my parents like what are you building them? Does it have a name like no not yet. Yeah, of course it has a name. Um So it's still kind of in those early days, but the the thought is like I'm a personal finance nerd. I've learned a lot from podcasts and online, so I'm trying to like Pull all these things together and and Put a site out there that people can learn about making money, saving money, financial independent.

became a big on this journey too. Like all right, if you really want freedom you gotta you know, get financial independence freedom. So talking about some of those things, um So we'll see. I mean it's such a crowded space and it's a hard thing to do. Uh As far as like stand out and get eyeballs on it, but Well starting at the same place as it was before at zero. Give it a shot and I'd I really like to write and I hope uh you know we'll see what happens with it. Yeah. Wealthfam.com. So you I think you'll get thousands of visits just from saying that. Uh you know say it three times. Well fam.com, wealth fam. People will listen'cause I think

You know, y you touched on the right thing, which is Financial independent. Um you know, I regret naming this podcast My First Million now because um a you know, the gimmick kind of is is interesting at the beginning, but like then you're stuck with the gimmick'cause it's hard to change your name. Um but B You know, the intention is never really about

uh making millions of dollars. The what people want is a great life. And uh the good thing about what what money can provide you Is that freedom. uh the financial freedom to to live life on your terms, whatever those may be. Um for you

It might be hanging out with your kid. Um it might be writing, it might be consulting, it might be skiing, I don't know. I don't know what all you like, but it enables the freedom for the lifestyle you want. And uh and I think it's really w fundamentally what people what people want and are realizing that, you know, um Job is one option and it can get you to financial freedom, but it usually gets you there when you're sixty five. And uh if you're willing if you're willing to trade twenty one years twenty one through sixty five.

Um Then that's a path that's tried tried and tested. Uh but a lot of people are now realizing uh especially as the internet uh opens up all these new opportunities. that uh you can get financial freedom much faster and uh in a way maybe that that's more in line with you and who you are. Um and once you have that financial freedom Um, you can play the game differently because every month you don't have to sort of um wonder where is the paycheck gonna come from.

And so so I like that you're teaching that because I think that is the probably the most important thing people can learn on a in terms of career or finances is that that one principle. A hundred percent. Yeah. And it it took me a long time even to realize That um You know, I was never really chasing money for the sake of money, but then once you get going you're like, you know, I'm sure you've heard of the four percent rule, like which is you know, if you can if your burn rate essentially is say forty grand a year. You need to save

A million bucks for Uh forty grand's four percent of that. So you kinda can like quickly do like this math, like all right, here's what I need to achieve. Like four percent rule helps you figure out What's your number Where you would be financially free. Exactly right. And uh and it comes from your monthly burn rate, which most people don't even know. Figure out your burn rate. And so uh so do you track your burn rate every month? You know, I'm not like hardcore. But you have a rough sense. Yeah, I definitely have a rough sense. So like there was definitely like a number like, hey, if we get to, you know, this number

Like we can live a comfortable life. Like we're not gonna be like you know, taking month long vacations to you know the most exclusive places in the world, but like we can be very comfortable, live a very nice life and like That was the goal and we're pretty much at that goal now and it feels like really really nice. And so you set a new goal now or what happens? You know, I don't know. I guess so, because you got to keep moving forward and doing something, but uh it's the new goal is a little bit

more like do something that's interesting. Like I also wanna figure out like I feel like in my life I'm th you know, mid late thirties now and I've done like very little to ever like give back or like do anything positive uh for the broader world. Um, so somehow I want to do that because I think like that will feel really good. And those are the types of things that kinda stick with you and really matter. I mean that's been a big thing about being a parent, just like caring about someone else more than you care about yourself, like actually feels selfishly. It feels like really good. It feels great to love someone that much, contribute that much. So I think like there's must be some nugget there that there should be some other other things to do than just keep chasing money, keep chasing money,'cause I don't know how you end that

Game if you're just Continue to try to do that. Do you uh do you know Much about Tony Robbins. Have you ever followed him or or re listened to any of his stuff, read any of it? I listened to him, uh, but I you know, I I'm not deep not like it not de I know people that are So I'm deep in it. Yeah. And uh basically you go from like uh

I I don't know of him and I'm skeptical. Seems like just another motivational speaker. Yeah, like that that's the normal and then like you take two steps forward and you're in the cult. It's like there's no in between, I feel like, with him. Um and so I went to one of his events. I would actually recommend you go, uh, especially now,'cause I think it's a it's best when you're in transitions, um or you're in a free space mentally to think. Um And so I went to one of his events. He has these like events where he'll sell out, you know five thousand, seven thousand people will will come to this um

event called Unleash the Power Within. He has lots of cheesy names'cause he's like you know, older and built his fame on like the infomercial days. Sure. So there's a lot of like cringy stuff like that. But his content is very good. Uh and he uh two things uh stood out to me. One one that uh one just for context, which is Even if you're not into the content. Uh it's just fucking amazing to see. Uh, this guy is the best public speaker I've ever seen. I I would say he's the best public speaker on earth.

Um, he is able to hold ten thousand people's attention for four days straight. from nine AM until nine PM with no breaks in between. And uh you know, he says this even during his thing. He's like, you know Uh most people can't sit through a two hour movie nowadays. Their attention wanders. Um like watch what happens in these these next four days. And it's true. People are like wired. Uh they're like connected to him. It's just really crazy. So just from a wow, that's a that's a that's what an effective speaker looks like. That is the Michael Jordan of public speaking. It's cool to see that in before he retires.

And Um, when you're talking about your goal and the fact that you know, you you gotta come up with a new goal Um he talks about this. He's like, you know, you're gonna reach what you achieved. If you if you put the work in, you're gonna reach what you achieved to do and you're watch what's gonna happen. You're gonna move the goalpost back. And some people see see that as a defeating thing. Uh but he has a very simple phrase which is Progress equals happiness.

Um, and I've I've really found this to be true, which is you are at your happiest when you feel a sense of progress towards whatever it is. If you're trying to lose weight, if you start to lose the weight, you will feel happy. Yeah. It doesn't actually matter what your weight is, if you plateau, you will start to feel Unhappy. As soon as you start to make progress again, you'll feel happy. Financially, same thing. Career, same thing, relationship, same thing. Progress equals happiness. I love that. And I use this to manage people too, because it's like uh instead of looking at the absolute goal of where people want to be or where they are. Uh you just try to measure progress and encourage progress because they will feel happy along the way and it's it works for yourself too.

Um so that's a very long winded way to get to a very simple phrase which is progress equals happiness. I love that. Yeah, no, I'll have to check out uh to go from you know a mild skeptic to to your level of all in on time. No, that guy is the worst. But uh I think if you think there's Okay. So So this has been awesome. Uh where can people sort of get a hold of you, reach you, read your thoughts? Obviously wealth fam. Uh what else is like a a good way to follow it? I just uh I just created a Twitter account. I think I have twelve followers right now. Uh it's brand new. It's embarrassingly low follower account, but I'm tweeting about, you know, financial independence, building businesses online, Amazon, all those sorts of good topics. Um it's at Paul underscore D underscore Anderson. Right. Anderson's Go on Fiverr, buy a thousand. I go on fiver just to get the credibility. Yeah, you can yeah, I'd love to if you're interested in starting an Amazon business, you're doing it, you have questions, thinking about selling it, you know, financial independence, anything, be happy to

You know, converse with you online. Awesome. Uh dude, thanks for coming. I uh I I I like this. I like I like this a lot, um, for for a lot of the reasons I said. I think that if you're listening to this Uh and you're s in the same mindset you were in. Um I'd be pretty inspired to s to say, yeah, I can I can do something like that too. Yeah, thanks a lot, Sean. I think you're gonna be you're gonna just like me, I had these people that changed literally changed my life and they don't know who I am. Like you're gonna have people that listen to this

your podcast and then you know, one year, two year, three years, the You know, look you up, send you a note like, Hey man, you changed for me and I I'd have to think that's gonna feel pretty good when that day happens because I think it is gonna happen. Yeah, my favorite email that I get from listeners is the one that says Um you don't know like you don't know this yet, but I'm gonna be on your show someday. And I'm like hell yeah, that's the goal. You came from the audience onto the show, so you were the sort of good example there. All right, man. All right, thank you. Mm-hmm. Uh

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