Reid Hoffman & Jeff Berman on why the future needs re-founders

The very best founders I know are brilliant at building systems. They connect teams, they remove bottlenecks, and they eliminate single points of failure. And yet When it comes to their own wealth. Most are running a disconnected stack. A tax accountant here and a state attorney there, a wealth manager who doesn't talk to either one of them.

Creative planning was built to fix exactly that. One integrated team of tax professionals, state planners, investment specialists, all coordinated by a dedicated wealth manager who sees your full financial picture and keeps every piece working together. Proactive tax efficiency, state strategy, investments all under one roof. Creative planning where wealth works together. Learn more at creative planning dot com slash masters of scale.

Global hiring is such a headache when you're building fast, but companies like Eleven Labs are scaling effortlessly with deal. They quadrupled their workforce in twenty twenty five. Without hiring an HR team. Build your global team with deal. Visit deal.com slash MOS and start expanding your business today. That's D E L

dot com. Slash M O S. Hey, folks, Jeff Berman here. I am thrilled to share some of the new names who will be joining us at this year's Masters of Scale summit. This may be our biggest stage yet. Reed Hastings, Meredith Whitaker, Van Jones, Amjad Masad, and more.

Will be there with us October 20th through 22nd in San Francisco. If you're building something great, or you want to build something great, We want you there with us too. Join us at masters of scale dot com slash apply twenty six. That's mastersofscot com slash apply. Twenty six.

Hey listeners. If you've been immersed in Masters of Scale for a while, you've likely heard me talk about the concept of refounding. Refounding. means joining an organization. Not only as a new leader.

But as a catalyst. For evolving its culture? Road map. And strategy. It means honoring the valuable building blocks of the business.

while breathing new life. You know, it's everyday work. And inspiring teams to take risks. And today. I'll be talking more about that.

With a refunder. I know quite well. Jeff Berman. You may have heard him. Talking with me about AI.

On this podcast. And he is in fact. We found her. behind this very show. He's taken on the role of CEO.

At wait what? The media company. That brings masters of scale. to life. I met Jeff about seventeen years ago.

When He had already had the vision. For The evolution of media. Through technology.

Coming up. To Silicon Valley to bridge the worlds between LA and Silicon Valley. to think about. What kinds of new experiences, what kinds of learnings? Could actually, in fact, transform the experience.

For consumers of media. He comes from a background. In the courtroom, as a trial lawyer. He's advised government leaders on polici matters. At the highest levels.

He's played major roles across media and culture. Fine. Advertising at MySpace? The digital media. for the National Football League.

And startups focus on women's sports and podcasting. Jeff has also been An executor in residence at my VC firm. Greylock Partners. Or he helped.

Many different founders scale. All of this makes him an excellent broker for fascinating conversations about scaling your business. And that's why I'm so pleased to have Jeff Berman join me. As a host. Of masters of scale.

Your hero. In upcoming episodes. With founders from areas like Tech incubation? Sports.

and the retail food business. And I can't wait for you to get all. The impactful lessons he and his guests have to share. Chef. I don't have an actual chair to pass to you.

But I'm thrilled to have you in the seat. As host for a stint starting today with me. For this important conversation. about refounding. Reed, it is such an honor to be here joining you as a host of Masters of Scale.

Other leaders such as Will I am and Angela Arnes have shared this chair, and it's an incredibly special role. Um, I'm so honored to be here. I'm also here as a refounder, which is the focus of today's special episode. Reed and I will be talking about our own experiences with refounding and mining the rich masters of scale archives on this topic. So let's get to it. You gotta have incredible talent at every position.

Huge push. There are fires burning when you're going out. Such an idiot. And then you go back to this is truly gonna be amazing. There are so many easy ways. So I have no idea what to do. Sorry, we made a mistake. But you have to time it right. We're gonna add a free bedroom apartment. Not ball ten years later and be like, well that's just how you do it. We haven't made it just how you do it. This is masters of scale. Reed, it is great to see you. Thank you for making time to chat.

Can you unpack a little bit how you view the difference between being a refounder and just coming in to take over? One of the fundamental differences in a founder's mindset is There's a set of risks you have to take. That

If you don't take those risks. Nothing happens. You you die. It's part of the reason why I use the metaphor of starting companies like jumping off a cliff and assembling the plane on the way down. It's like, Well, if you don't get the plane assembled, You hit the ground. Um

So Making a set of those calls that are not just kind of straightforward like what tends to be taught. in more simplistic business school classes, well, what do your customers say? They ask for this feature, provide them that feature. Versus the Well what is the set of things that you need to do that are not

Accounting like strategic decisions. But more like macro sheet, like our market, our industry is changing in the following way. And here's how we we go to where the puck is going versus where the puck has been. Let alone where it is right now. And that's part of why I think the founding mindset, the refounding mindset is important too. Now I think part of the differences is

You can be a very credible CO. And say What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna recognize is the executive team playing well together. Are there the right kinds of people in the job? Are they executing against the tasks that need to happen?

Like all of that stuff is in within kind of classical Skill set. of the COVID. Job. The refounding part of it is

What is the set of things that in my doing them Maybe I have a very long tenure here and I'll be benefiting from But it's almost

are gonna be much more beneficial to whoever the next CEO is. 'Cause the thing mindset you're trying to create something. That's gonna survive you. That's going to be A enduring institutional.

If you said, Well, I could have a CO Who's a little less proven, but has the refounding mindset. Or I could have a CO who's proven but doesn't have the refounding mindset. Personally, I would always opt For the refounding mindset. Now it's also partially because

The way the technology changes. industries, companies, societies, if you look over the last three hundred years, is it accelerating Time scope. And that accelerating time scope means that almost always as a company you need to be changing up the game some.

And the hey, we just keep continue to run the way that we were running thirty years ago. Seems much less likely to be the right answer. And so if that's the case. Then you know what does these new technologies mean for the way

Do we operate our entire company? And all of that will bring much more of the Founding and refounding mindset. to how you lead. You don't need to be new to an organization to embrace a re founder's mindset. Think about the widespread adoption of artificial intelligence.

To harness its power and adapt effectively, leaders everywhere will need a fresh perspective. Let's dive into some of the sharpest insights from Masters of Scale on refounding. We'll start with an episode that tracks Reed's own scale story. Late two thousand eight. Reed onboarded Jeff Weiner to take the helmet LinkedIn and embrace the role of Reed Founder.

So when Reed refers to Jeff That's Jeff Wiener. Not me. All right. Let's listen.

I called him and I said, How would you like this to work? What decisions would you like me to make? What do you want to make? And he said, That's easy, it's your ball, you run with it. You get the whole organization to adjust to J.

Being the COVID. that it's really important when bringing somebody in from the outside to make sure that everyone understands that that person will be responsible for the decisions. We took it a step further. We recognize that people would still come back with muscle memory and go directly to read on decisions.

He planned about six to eight weeks of time outside of the office over the course of my first ten weeks at LinkedIn. I was accepting Any speaking engagement. It's the only time in my life the Weavers Society of Canada. Asked me to speak. I would go speak to the Weaver Society of Canada.

Mm-hmm. I would get back. I would say is it solved or not? People had to reestablish connective tissue with the new guy. More than half the time the person would get impatient. go solve it with Jeff and other people and say, we got it solved. That didn't allow any exceptions.

Jeff's the CO, you gotta work for Jeff. I don't think I can overstate the importance of how this was set up. Was like oh right, actually, Jeff's great, we can work together on this. This really, really works, but it required that rewiring. Without a foundation like that where you have clarity in terms of leadership and who's responsible for what. It's gonna be really challenging to scale. Reed, a couple of years before Jeff Wiener came in to refound LinkedIn, you'd hire Dan Nye to take over as CEO.

What did you learn from that first attempt to pass on the mantle that ultimately helped Jeff's transition to succeed later on? The first part of that was How do we hand over the brain surgery that is a CO transition. And hired a CO

In a LinkedIn, Dan Nye, very good guy. But I hadn't actually figured out how you would ultimately really rewire the company'cause in the rewiring problems are hit. People don't believe the new CEO's direction. They they have a question of uncertainty. They want to know if the old plan was still going or or how the new organization works. And what people typically do is they go to the former CEO. And

It was essentially undermining Dan because I wasn't allowing those neural And that's part of the reason I think I didn't set up Dan to succeed in the first CEO position. Now When we brought in Jeff, I was like, I brought it in with that experience. And I was like, look, well, one of the things we really need to do

is we need to make sure that the entire organization is re Focused on Jeff is the COVID. And even though Reed is still closely involved. I'm not gonna immediately anytime I hit the littlest bump.

Go to read. In order to solve the problem because you have to reform the neural Connectivity. The refounder part of it You wanna give the

opportunity to step into the kind of the moral authority. Of the refounding and you want the person to step up and take it. That moment with Jeff. was Jeff. sitting down with me on a strategy and like, Well what do you think we should do here? And I was like, Well

Actually in fact. You're the CEO. So You should be telling me what you think should do, and I'll help. I can imagine

Jeff Weiner sitting there and saying, you know, I'm not sure what to do. I want some counsel on this, much as Jeff might go to a board member or an advisor. Why did you feel he shouldn't come to you for the advice that he should actually be saying, I want to do it this way, and then bouncing it off of you rather than kind of getting in the kitchen and cooking together on it? Well look, this is very early. This was establishing the pattern and I really wanted to get it into the re founding moment. It's like It's your ball.

And we spent Over a decade. having meetings every week. hashing through on certain issues like what should we be doing around China and how should the mission of the organization evolve and What should be the ongoing role of other co-founders?

But in the very early part of it. what I was trying to Make sure that Jeff Understood. I am of course delighted to help as much as possible. And I'm of course like I I'm not sure what to do here. What should I do? That's a different kind of question. Versus the

Are you still in charge? Is this your call to make? Right? And it's like, no, no, I'm not in charge. You're in charge. And how the re founder role grew is One of the things that was key in Jeff's mission was

was professional education. And I I of course think professional education is a good thing. I think LinkedIn Learning is doing all kinds of great things, but like If I were choosing the short list about what I was doing when I was CO, about what MA I would do. Which places I would invest'cause you know, part of what you're doing as a CEO is you're saying I'm investing in things now.

That will start bearing fruit three to ten years from now. You're lucky as a CO if you get to do one of them. And that's part of how you can tell. Like a re founder, because a re founder is doing that. It's not just, oh, what are we doing for this quarter's numbers, but it's the things that we're investing in. Such that Whoever the CO is five, ten years from now, you're investing in that future company because you're thinking about What does that company look like as an ongoing institution?

in the world and Jeff was focused on education. At that point we'd already had enough of established relationship that I was like, look, this isn't the thing I would choose to do, but if this is yours This is the thing that is too often under described in MBA schools. Which is Part of the mission of the organization is the mission of the CEO synergizing with the organization. And you can make education as part of the short list.

And that could be part of your being the refounding CEO doing this. And by the way, you see that with AI and Satya, you see that, you know, kind of across the board in the refounding CEOs. That synergy between a refounder and the organization's mission is critical. Every founder should be unsatisfied with the status quo and energize the team to evolve the company in the face of new opportunities and new challenges. Let's hear a clip from Satya Nadella's episode of Masters of Scale. When Satya became the CE of Microsoft after years at the company,

He wasn't afraid to shake things up. and lead in his very own way. The best advice I even got, just be yourself, right? I mean you're never gonna be me. So therefore don't try to fill my shoes. Sacha knew he wanted to lead the company as himself.

And he knew what he wanted to prioritize. I felt like oh I just can't be like okay, here's the third guy who just shows up and does what Bill and Steve did. It needs a full reset. And I felt the the reset meant I needed to make both that sense of purpose, mission, and culture. First class.

And my own. Part of Sacha's refounder mission has been to prioritize collaboration over exclusivity. And moves that might have shock the Microsoft of the late nineteen nineties. Like partnering to build AI applications with a nonprofit company. One of the things that I think is something you would do that neither Bill nor Steve would have done is the partnership with Open AI and the focus on that being the play. And obviously we both have a hundred out of ten respect for both Bill and Steve. So this is not a criticism of the it is simply a different ways of playing the game.

Say a little bit about how you thought about like this is why it's important for Microsoft, this is why it's important for the right outcomes in the world and here is the kinds of things we're doing. By partnering with an external technological organization that is actually in fact a five O one C three about how we're navigating these joint missions together. If AI is going to be one of the most defining technologies, what is

An organization that is going to do work, and then how are we then going to be able to partner with that organization to even further democratize it? I think of it as a continuation of how do we stand for being that platform company, that developer tools company with broad mission to democratize the most defining technologies. In fact I say If it was Oh wow.

the two companies in the world or three companies in the world have AI, that's not a world that any of us wanna live in. Going back to sort of your fundamental thesis At some point if you're successful, you will outlast your founders as a company. And if you are gonna outlast that founder, that handoffs are gonna be super critical. Successful businesses are meant to outlast our founders.

Which is why refounders need to be part of the design. So wherever you can, look for those refounders and take on that founder mindset. Wherever in the company you are. I wanna go back to Satian Adela's decision about the open AI investment, which he acknowledges might not have happened under the prior regime at Microsoft. You talk about take the ball and and run with it.

There's also a degree to which you at least have to be sensitive to, if not, have some fidelity to the earlier mission of the company. And so I'm curious whether you think that should factor in at all. If so, to what extent? How you would advise want to think about that. You know, I think fundamentally There's kinda like two mistakes. One mistake is We're not evolving the mission at all. And the other mistake is It's now blank page and entirely something different.

It's in between those two, and it can be closer to one or closer to the other, depending a little bit on what the circumstances of the company are, what the circumstances of the market are, what the circumstances of competition are. Cause sometimes, by the way, companies need to do pretty hard pivots and restarts and all the rest. So it could be much closer to the blank page. And sometimes it's elaboration. Part of when we get to Sats and Adela, everyone would have said, Well look AI had been part of Microsoft's thinking But part of the refounding moment for Satya was to say

Look. The moment is now and it's really important. And the organization that has most figured out So what you need is attention transformers and scale.

is open AI and I have a unique ability to Get ahead of the entire world. And I have that ability to do it, but with an unusual partnership. So we will take a risk, we will do something new. Again, taking risk doing something new is part of what

Refounders. More than just kind of professional COs willing to do. Because that's the way that we realize the mission. Taking risks is perhaps the scariest thing about refounding. Because when you refound, you're making a bet on the future.

And if scale were easy. Everyone would do it. It's analyzing the right risks to take that put your team in the best position to realize your collective vision. After the break, Reed offers me some valuable advice as I continue my personal refounding journey, and we explore how new leaders should assess what parts of an established culture to evolve. And what elements to protect at all costs.

We'll be right back. When you've built substantial wealth through your business, it's often tied up in a single equity position. The upside is real, but so is the risk, and knowing when to act isn't always obvious. Creative planning works with business owners to build a strategy around concentrated equity. When to diversify, how to manage tax risk, and how to protect what you've spent years building.

Creative planning where wealth works together. Learn more at creative plating dot com slash masters of scale. Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show because every Friday we release a second Rapid Response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely for From Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there.

Humans will never be more intelligent than AI. There can be two types of companies. Those were great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future? That is human centered. I'm Rana El Calyubi.

And on my podcast Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone. Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future. And we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Before the break, Reed shared the importance of taking risks as a key to a refounder's mindset and leading with an eye to the future. As I begin my own refounding journey at Wait What, I'm eager to find new ways to inspire our team and give them the room to run and reimagine what the company is capable of.

This makes me think of a story from our episode with Marissa Meyer. Following her long tenure as an executive at Google, she was named Yahoo's CEO. Red a team. That was hungry for change.

I remember when I first got there, like someone told like Lady, I don't even know where you're gonna start. There's a thous there are thousands of things that are wrong with this place. And I was like, that's really daunting. There's thousands of things to fix. But there were also signs that energy was bubbling beneath the surface. My first week at Yahoo, I made a point of going down to the cafeteria and just kind of hanging out for a long time. I was in the cafeteria and this guy came up and snapped his hand on my tray and he was like, Is it go time? And I was like Please don't leave. I've only been here for four days. Like we might do something actually like fun and cool. And he's like, No. He's like, I'm not talking about leaving. He's like, is it go time? He's like, there's a whole bunch of us that have been here for like five, ten, fifteen years. Waiting for the leadership on the board to like figure itself out. And he's like, is it go time? Like can we actually run, do stuff, build stuff? And I was like, yes, by all means, like run, go, do, like, don't let me stop you.

When I arrived at this company, much like when Marissa Meyer arrived at Yahoo, I found it full of creative people who were ready to run. Reed knows me well enough to understand why I wanted the opportunity to lead at Wait What? And even though we've been friends and colleagues for more than a decade, we hadn't talked about my experience here so far. I think we were.

Getting gray hair is counting the number of years we knew each other. Recently. Yes. Um And so how is this Refounding moment. been experienced by you.

I mean it's different than anything I've experienced before. I mean I think this is the fourth time in my career I've come into a company where part of the role has been to Evolve, not necessarily reinvent. the mission, the culture, the systems processes, the ways of working. It's the first time I'm doing it in a largely remote environment.

And Doing so even with the perspective of serving the board of a not for profit that was built before Covid as a fulmote organization and protect democracy and having Some insight into how to do that well. Um A boy's at heart. It is hard to

Not feel people's energy. And so there are pressing needs in areas where thank goodness I've got some relationships and some experience and and I can dive in quickly and and get going. But it's been a fascinating process so far. And to your point about evolving mission, you know, when I came into the company in September of twenty three. The mission was to elevate human potential. And that is a profound and lofty and meaningful mission.

And also extremely broad. Right? That could be Peloton's mission. That could be any number of companies mission could be LinkedIn's mission. So you know, working to really refine what the mission is so that we have more clarity on what we say yes to, what we say no to, has taken a a bit of work to to get to a place where we're starting finally to orient the whole team around it. I think in part because of just analyzing where the market is and the market's going, and in part because we're not sitting in an office together every day solving problems in person with each other. And what what are the things that you would call your younger self

Now What, five months into the job? And say Do more of this and less of this in that moment. What would it be? One of the things that the team had done an extraordinary job of, and this is a little bit of first thing, don't break what's working.

is not only a very thoughtful and intentional three day a week morning stand up, but a Thursday afternoon highly programmed our of sharing culture building, team building, and we're blessed to have a a member of our team, one of the co-founders, Jay Punjabi, who programs that hour for the entire company. We get to know each other personally. We have individuals presenting not so much what they're working on, but um we have a team member who had her honeymoon in Japan recently and she did a a photo essay of her honeymoon. And wow. And so there's so much to do, Reed. There's so much work, and it would be so easy to spend all of our time Doing the work.

and not spending time really getting to have a sense of who each other is as a human, what we're passionate about and building those human connections that would otherwise have happened around a water cooler or on a walk to get a coffee. That's been absolutely critical. And I have to say that The culture that the team sustained My first thing was like this is magic. Do not screw this up. It can be daunting to enter a new organization and determine what elements of the culture are helping and what elements are hindering what you're doing there.

It's even more challenging to tackle this in the spotlight of public scrutiny. Something Dara Kosra Shahi discovered. When he became Uber's CEO. Dara had just taken on the role of Uber CO.

He had walked into a situation surrounded by some very public controversy. So then You start. And you already know that There's a lot of things broken. Broken relationships with governments.

Bro culture. you know, blog posts and all the rest happening outside. There is critiques about being overly aggressive and not very ethical in terms of of business practice. Um

What does the first week look like walking in the mat? I'm I'm listening to you, I'm sweating because I'm remembering that that first week You know, I think one of the wonderful surprises for me coming in. was that

The public perception of the company. Was so different. from the people that I found at the company when I joined. These are unbelievably smart people who can Get another job at the drop of a hat.

But The тім да вас. They Wanted to fight. Because they believed in the company.

And That was one of the most delightful things when I got him, which was There's a group of warriors Who were fighting for the company? He wanted a culture that would arise naturally out of the good people still at Uber.

The people who recognize the difficult things about the company, but still believed in it. I remember there was a Jeff Bezos letter a couple of years ago where he said that You know, the culture of the company defines itself. In an ideal world I could work at the company for two, three years. understand what the culture is and not have culture be top down I want the culture of the company to be X because I said so, help the culture define itself, but we didn't have time for that.

Instead, Dar gathered his team of captains and they looked through the cultural suggestions from the entire crew. Before Dara. Uber's cultural guidelines. Range from the sober likes of Be yourself.

to the full on brotastic maxims like super pumped. And Always be hustling. It was time. For a sweeping change.

So we crowdsourced actually from our employees. What do you think should represent the culture of Uber going forward? There were some themes that came to the surface. А за тім, да ви гар. And we pick the themes that we thought were the most relevant themes.

And we created what we call our new cultural norms, the Uber Tutato cultural norms. Some of these were continuations of the old norms. Some were totally new, and some were squarely aimed at overcoming the earlier toxic culture. We celebrate differences. We want to be a different company, but we also celebrate differences in background and where you come from and religion and sexuality, et cetera. And we believe that

No matter what you bring to the table, you should be able to contribute to what we call Uber. I was expecting him to To kinda say well, you know. I wrote in as the new sheriff in town.

And We're like no, actually in fact Like a bunch of really good well meaning people. There was a bunch of really good elements in the culture. What I did is I took an approach, and I think is what everyone should do in all evolutions, you know. Uber did have some real turnarounds that needed to happen. Is to say

We have some really good elements to our mission and culture. When we evolve, we should refine and hold on to that. Now it wasn't a complete democracy. It was like We threw everything in a in a pot and then he highlighted the ones as the CO that would be there, but it was a collaborative process. And so I think the way that you came in is exactly the right thing to do.

Yeah, and and one of the things that I didn't do, which I've subsequently questioned whether was the right decision, I'm curious about your take on this. When Jeff Wiener came into the LinkedIn role, he talks about meeting with all three hundred and thirty team members and really going on a listening tour. On the second day of our offsite when I came into the company, Shira Ackerman from our team asked me if I was going to do one on ones with everyone in the company. And I took a deep breath and I said, No. At least not yet. because we've some really pressing priorities that I have to attend to to make sure that we're on the right track. Um, but what is your advice to incoming CEOs andor refounders

Where they may be small fires, but they're fires that have to be attended to and balancing that against the need to really understand who the team is, where they are, what they need, et cetera. Um, you do on the entrepreneurial journey have to let fires burn, both as a CEO. as a refounder, sometimes as an employee,'cause it's like I can only I focus on the triaging to the most important one. And then get to the other ones later. And

You know, my book The Alliance I kinda describe these three Tours of duty, which included the transformational one, which is I think is what generally speaking, you know, most modern jobs are, but there's also a foundational tour duty. And I think one of the things that you're trying to do is you're trying to get That

spread of ownership of the problems, the fires, the challenges, the culture, the identity. More beyond just the individual, because individuals can also be on foundational tours of duty. And I think part of it is not just solving the problems themselves. But also getting the team and the culture.

to kind of reformulate to okay, we are problem solvers here. And sometimes by the way, that allows people to try to solve a problem and Not do it so well. Fail at it, do it partially, et cetera. But it's more important to be building those muscles, building those mindsets. building that kind of mentality.

Well I think I think we may have coined a new term, which is a a refoundational tour of duty. Um So we'm coming up on six months and we'll have my second quarter board meeting. And if you were sitting on our board with a refounder here, Beyond the financial metrics. H how would you be gauging my success in this role. What should I be anticipating from the terrific board members that I'll be meeting with in a month or so? Well, one of the the paradoxes of entrepreneurship is the yin and yang of it. It's like

You should both be long term and short term. You should both have a persistent vision, but you should be flexible to competition, market, other kinds of changes, technology changes. And A little bit of it is a question of Yes, you have to be doing the okay, what's the financial state of the business? Are we executing against that?

What are the things that we're gonna need to accomplish in terms of revenue, fundraising, other kinds of things is the organization kind of recoalesced around you as a leader, all of which Kind of. Baseline importance. But then also a little bit of the what is frequently in industry described as

B Hag. Big hairy audacious goals. Yeah. Exactly. But it's like here's the big game that we're playing. That is that transformation. And here is how you blend that yin and the yang of the where we are now and also what we're trying to get to. 'Cause you know, frequently the way the board members ask this question most often is kind of like, look, everyone's talking about artificial intelligence. How does that change? Our goals, our way of operating, how does it gonna change how our industry is gonna be? How do we become more of a leader and what are the things that we're doing?

And to some degree The board members will probably first wait for you to say something. to see if you're naturally triggering on that and then ask questions about it. Is I think The pattern by which this will be

Most typically happen. Great. Super helpful. We'll stick to landing on the board of meeting with that advice. Thank you so much, Reed. Deeply grateful for your time and wisdom. And um thanks for helping me in my job as well. Well likewise and I Could not be more delighted. than to be continuing down this

partnering with you and the rest of the amazing what what? Organization. Thanks, Reed. Appreciate you. As I approach the six month mark of my own refounding experience, I am struck by the incredible power of mentorship. There is no way we could have made the progress that we've made without the valuable insight of numerous leaders, thinkers, and friends. Conversations really like the one you just heard.

To refound any business, no matter what size, takes guts and gall and like any route to scale is not a solo endeavor. So don't be afraid to lean on your network, and not just your mentors and friends, your team as well. Go in search of inspiration and wisdom more than ever. I'm Jeff Berman. Thanks for listening. Hey there, it's Jill Slesinger. I'm launching a new show. It's called Money Moves, and your money is going to move.

We're gonna help you make better financial decisions. We're gonna call out the BS you're finding all over social media. We're gonna give you actionable guidance to make your financial life clearer, less stressful. We're gonna answer your financial questions and take the mystery out of your financial life. Follow and listen to Money Moves with Jill Schlesinger wherever you get your podcast. Masters of Scale is a Wait Wat original. Our executive producer is Eve Tro. The production team includes Chris Gautier, Adam Skuse, Alex Morris, Tucker Vagerski, Masha Makutanina, and Brandon Klein.

Audio editing for this episode by Keith J. Nelson. And Andrew No. Mixing and Mastering by Aaron Bastanelli. Original music by Eduardo Rivera and Ryan Holiday.

Our head of podcasts is Letal Milan. Visit mastersofscale.com to find the transcript for this episode and to subscribe to our email newsletter.

What you see above is a preview of the first minutes. One unlock costs 3 credits and covers this episode forever: full segment and word-level timestamps on this page, plus .txt, .srt, .vtt and word-level JSON downloads, as many times as you like.