Rapid Response: CNN’s Van Jones on Kamala’s glow-up, AI “wetware,” Elon Musk, and more

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Hey folks, Jeff Berman here. I am thrilled to share some of the new names who will be joining us at this year's Masters of Scale summit. This may be our biggest stage yet. Reed Hastings, Meredith Whitaker, Van Jones, Amjad Masad, and more. Will be there with us October 20th through 22nd in San Francisco. If you're building something great, or you want to build something great, We want you there with us too.

Join us at masters of scale dot com slash apply twenty six. That's mastersofscom slash apply. Twenty six. The digital divide. We've been talking about that for 20, 30 years. It is no longer a hardware issue for a lot of America.

In your mind, do I believe that this stuff is for me? Or is it for someone else? Is it for the white folks and for the rich folks? You know, you look at some of these African American communities. Let you know communities overlooked, underestimated. What if you gave those communities the most creative tools ever imagined.

And told them. This is not a hand grenade. This is a jetpack for you. But that's what I'm saying, man. It's not a smart issue, it's a heart issue. Beth Van Jones, political commentator for CNN, author, and entrepreneur. His latest initiative called Dream Machine focuses on opening up AI access for underrepresented communities.

I wanted to talk to Van in the shadow of the Democratic National Convention about how the tech world and the political world are interacting in a highly charged moment. We discuss how Kamala Harris's view of AI may differ from Joe Biden's. and how she's managed to turn herself from what he calls cringy into a Beyonce like star. We also talked about the evolution of Elon Musk from Andrew Yang's supporter to Donald Trump's supporter and key areas that Van believes are being neglected in the campaign maelstrom. He doesn't hold any punches, blunt, skeptical.

even the inspirational connecting today's moment to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. In short, it's a fun and worthwhile ride, so let's get to it. I'm Bob Safian. And this is rapid response.

I'm Bob Safian and I'm here with uh Van Jones. Van, thanks for joining us. I'm glad to be here, brother. You've been busy, as always. Especially with the presidential race.

dramatically shifting over the last month. Oh, did something happen? Yeah. Did you hear that there's there's nonsense going on. Listen, I I've been I've been on on on television now for twelve years. I hope I hope to cover the twenty twelve election and the twenty Sixteen election, twenty twenty, and now twenty twenty four. Yeah, so I've seen good debate performances, bad ones. I w I was onset when Obama, you know, crapped the bed. But I've never seen anything like that. And then we come out.

And they go right to my panel. And I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna say. The guy was the first person. to to read the handwriting on the walls and and not pretend that it was uh Uh something that it wasn't.

You were saying what everybody was thinking, right? Yeah, it's it it really is. Crazy, Bob. You you think about these stories like the Emperor's new clothes and that type of stuff, like nobody would possibly pretend that an Emperor had on a beautiful robe if he's actually butt naked. And it's like, well, nobody would actually pretend that the president of the United States, you know, is ready to go for five more years in office when he's not. And then suddenly ding, he's out and ding he's for comma and ding, comma goes from being cringe to being cool in 24 hours. Uh she goes from being like, you know, this kind of like, do we have a vice president? Where is she? To like Beyonce in a week. And it's like no, so this is completely different, sir.

than any other any other thing I've had to cover. And in the meantime, while you're doing this You're also launching a new initiative this Dream machine innovation lab to address the impact of AI on underrepresented communities. Like Is there a connection for you between

What's going on in the political world and what's going on in the tech world? Th there's a a big connection because If you're waiting for politics and politicians to fix this stuff. You gonna be waiting. For a long time. Uh, I think in the last century you you could be excused

for having a more state oriented, government oriented view of change. Because in the last century You had politicians, political figures, churchill. You know, JFK, F DR. Uh Dr. King. These were

Political people who are either politicians or protesters trying to make government Work better. Try to get the new deal. Done. So you know, working families have

Some support. Trying to get civil rights and women rights done so that we we really all can be seen as created equal. These are all the tasks of government. What Political figure.

Is there on the world stage right now? that you think is up to the task of even being a good dog catcher or city council member. I mean It is compared to the challenges that we're facing. Catastrophic global

Uh warming. the rise of all these authoritarian governments. United States kinda falling all over itself and infighting and The the the political class is not up to this fight. Meanwhile

Who are the people really shaping tomorrow? It's not the politicians, it's the technologists. The technologists are the ones who are who basically creating A new human civilization.

Right before our eyes. Uh look, I've got you know, for my first marriage I got two kids, one's in college, one's in high school. But I've also my new relationship I've got two little babies, two and a half years old and six months old. By the time they're my age.

The they will be living in a different human civilization. Their first crushes Or or best friends might be AIs. When it's time for them to have Kids they might

use biotech tools to design their kids. They might be buried on the moon. Or on Mars? All of that is different. Then where I grew up, I was born nineteen sixty eight. This is all Jetson stuff.

And yet. That's what's being created. Now My local congressperson has very little leverage on that. I'm sorry. Like the there's about ten thousand people in the AI community.

They're gonna have a much bigger impact on all of that. Then Any Ten thousand politicians. And so that's why Will I Am and I got together and said

Let's launch a campaign. To try to get the next generation of young minds, especially from black and brown and other overlooked communities. Get them focused on AI. So we have a campaign call Make.

Wakanda Real. trying to excite the imagination of young people. What if you could use all these technology tools to solve problems? What kinda being the

you know, incredibly technologically advanced super nation. in the superhero universe of of of Marvel. What if you could make that real? And so it's a vote of confidence in the future. in that we think that technology can be used for good.

If if the the driving force of creating this future is tech, like Black representation In in tech black people make up maybe. eight percent of in tech employees and like Three percent of

Uh Tex C suite executives. I mean it's not you know, the creators of this future are don't necessarily represent all of us, right? It's it's bad. It's bad. And it's dangerous. It's dangerous.

It's not oh it's Oh, it's terrible for the poor black people. No, it is. Oh, it's terrible for the the Native Americans and whatever. Yeah, though it is. It's terrible for everybody. The last time we let one little group

Oh. does determine human civilization. We had four hundred years of slavery. Colonialism, environmental destruction. You don't want that. You want the next

Time you build a civilization to include everybody. 'Cause you want a new human civilization. That is more in harmony with itself. And the planet that we call home. And that can't be created by one little group of people. That's got to be co-authored.

By a lot of people. But I'll tell you this. And this will get me in trouble with some of my liberal friends. At least At the consumer level.

We call it the digital divide. We've been talking about that for twenty, thirty years. It is no longer a hardware issue for a lot of America. I'm not saying you don't have some deserts. Uh you do have some housing projects, you do have some neighborhoods that are still not online.

You gotta deal with that. But increasingly It's no longer a hardware problem. Most people have a s a smartphone. They could download ChatGPT. They could download mid journey. It's not so much a hardware problem, it's a wetware problem.

It's a d in your mind, in your brain. In between these two ears. Do I believe that this stuff is for me? Do I believe that this technology is supposed to be In my hands.

Or is it for someone else? Is it for the white folks or for the rich folks? That's a wetware problem. Is it Corny.

Or is it cool? That's a wet wear problem. And so We're trying to have a campaign that says Yeah, you look at some of these African American communities

Latino communities, Native American, overlooked, underestimated Appalachian. You've got creative people. You've got resilient people. You've got grit. You've got determination. You've got in innovative people. What if you gave those communities the most creative tools? Every

Imagined. And told them. This is not a hand grenade. This is a jetpack for you. You don't have to go to

four years of college and then go beg somebody for a bunch of capital. a lot of what you're doing now is you're replacing Capital with code. But that group, they have to believe it. Right? They have to believe it to grab that.

That's what I'm saying, man. It's a It's not a smart issue, it's a hard issue. You got a lot of smart people. But do they have that self belief? Do they have that self confidence? So much of the discussion about AI and underrepresented communities has been about like That AI is developed.

you know, like not in a particularly inclusive way or AI regulation and bias. And it doesn't sound like that's necessarily what you're obsessed with. Not that you don't think maybe that should be addressed, but that It's more about just getting folks in those communities to feel like, yeah, this is something that's cool for me to make part of my life. I'm glad you pointed this out. Because Dr. King

You know, my great hero. He would have been very concerned about everything you just said. He would have stood up and said, We want equal protection. from racially biased algorithms. We want equal protection from racist robots. We want equal protection from Job displacement.

But you wouldn't have stopped there. He also would have wanted equal opportunity, equal access to the good stuff. See, that's what's been missing. Is Dr. King and say, I have a critique. You know what I mean? Like I have a set of concerns. You know, that's not

The thing, you know? It's the he had a dream. He had a vision. Yeah, and and and I think

You gotta be on both sides of the conversation. Equal protection from bad stuff. But equal opportunity, equal access, equal excitement, equal cultural momentum on the good stuff. Because Look at the black community when it comes to technology.

Yes, you can say we don't participate in Silicon Valley and we definitely don't and we need to to do more. And yet We took two turntables. And a microphone. In the Bronx. Mm-hmm.

And created Hip hop. Which is now bigger than any other musical genre. That was Technology?

Kids literally would Hack street lights. to be able to have these block parties with two turntables and a microphone and somebody would get would get on and say with a hip a hop a hibity hip. And suddenly you had hip hop. And it is now.

the dominant cultural force. In the world. So if you could do that. with that little bit of technology. What does that same community do?

with mid journey. With Chat GP too. With Sora. We have no idea what could come. And so I just want to make sure that somebody's on the opportunity side of this thing.

I'm curious. How do you educate yourself about AI? Like do you spend a lot of time playing with These different tools? Yeah, though, I suck, man. You know. It it's a different mindset. Prompting

You know, like trying to like ask this goddamn thing the right questions and like I'm not Yeah, I think a different kind of a brain is gonna figure out that dance that That it it really is a tango. You gotta learn the steps, right? Yeah, you gotta learn the steps. I took an MIT course on machine learning online. It was

Horrible for my self esteem. I'm I'm I'm I'm used to d do Pretty good in classroom settings. It was like trying to learn.

A foreign language. In a foreign language. But it showed me There's nothing to be scared of. It's just another tool.

It can g it can get out of hand, sure, but I mean Everything else we invented could can get out of hand, you know, b bio weapons, nuclear weapons. you know, uh social media. I mean Anything can get out of hand. But there are people who if they had the if they had a laptop and they could get online and they had a couple extra hours in the in the evenings instead of

Watch, you know TikTok all day. Could create beautiful stuff. Could solve really important problems. could become incredibly valuable people.

And I just want that to at least be an option, Bob, because What? You know why? You have never ever in your life Gone to McDonald's.

And ordered sushi. First of all, it'd be nasty. It'd be horrible. You'd probably get sick. It would be nasty, yeah. But also Also Also Sushi is not on the menu.

It's not on the menu. So you never order something. That's not on the menu. I'm just trying to put the positive part. of A of AI. On the menu.

For overload. Underestimated communities. And I believe that some of those folks are gonna do stuff that blows everybody's minds. Van has a way of keeping it real, doesn't he? Let's hope AI Access is more enticing than McDonald's sushi. But I get what Van saying here that if we don't make the dream of AI available across varied communities.

That will narrow the possibilities for the future for all of us. I also agree with Van that technologists may have a bigger impact on the future than governments. which makes tech access that much more important. After the break, we'll dig into the tech politics crossover more, including why Kamala Harris's embrace of AI may differ from Joe Biden's. And why Elon Musk's recent actions have van longing for qu

The old Elon. So stay with us. When you've built substantial wealth through your business, it's often tied up in a single equity position. The upside is real, but so is the risk, and knowing when to act isn't always obvious. Creative planning works with business owners to build a strategy around concentrated equity.

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Those were great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't how do we build a future. That is human centered. I'm Rana El Calyubi. And on my podcast, Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone.

Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future. And we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Hey, listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show because every Friday we release a second Rapid Response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely. From Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there.

Mm-hmm Before the break, CNN's Van Jones explained why he's pushing for wider AI access through a new venture called Dream Machine. Now Van digs into the politics of AI, why Harris may approach tech differently than Biden, and why this may be the most momentous year since 1968. Let's dive back in. Earlier this year

Reed Hoffman came on my show after he'd met with Joe Biden about AI and and Reed shared some of you know, what Biden's perspective on emerging tech is. But When I asked Reed like He doesn't really know how How Harris thinks about AI.

Do you Have any clear sense of that fr from her personally, from her team? I'll say two things about it. One is I don't know. I've known the vice president for twenty five years. We came up together in San Francisco politics. First of all, if you told me even a month ago

that she would be more powerful than Taylor Swift. I would have said, in what universe is that possible? And I don't know what she thinks about this in particular. What I do know Is that she's from the Bay Area. And Joe Biden is not.

Mm-hmm. So she grew up next door to Silicon Valley. She's a different generation. Um a lot of her donors and supporters her entire career. have been Silicon Valley.

And so Kamala. knows a bunch of people in Silicon Valley and she's known them for a long time. I can't help but imagine that that won't have a big impact on how she thinks about this stuff as opposed to Uh lunch bucket Joe Biden from another century on another coast.

You've been part of a bunch of different enterprises addressing criminal justice reform. Uh clean energy. They haven't been particularly central in this campaign. It seems more like it's focused on like law and order and economic growth. Like, does that frustrate you?

You know, I understand the waves and the and the currents and the motions and stuff like that, and so sometimes your issue's hot and sometimes it's not. Unfortunately the issues become so polarized. that if you're a Democrat, you're talking about climate change, you're wasting your time because anybody who's agrees with you on that's gonna vote for you anyway. And you're just gonna piss off people in the middle who might, you know, not know which which way to go.

And no Republican can On the issue. I remember when this issue was more of a dumb versus smart issue than a left versus right issue. But for me

Look, I wish we were talking about much deeper issues in general. I think we have a real spiritual crisis in the country. People are hurting, man. I think people feel lost.

I think people feel Very, very Concerned, afraid about the future? I think people feel increasingly Anxious about

Other people. Like I don't think the word neighbor means the same thing that it did when I was growing up. I mean, half time y'all don't know who the hell your neighbor is. Maybe you got some app, you know, looking out, making sure You know, the neighborhood doesn't have some bad person in it.

That's not The same. The world's changing, man. I mean China Russia.

Iran, North Korea. They they've got our number. And they're they're they're messing with us. If these authoritarians win. you know, the next quarter of the century.

Some of the stuff we take for granted can go away. I'd rather talk about that in those terms. Not talk about that in terms of well, you're a dummy, you're a dummy, but we we need to come together as a country about some of that stuff. And and and instead uh uh everything gets to be divisive. Right. Like I mean in the in the last few weeks.

Being a parent, you know, entered the the conversation with JD Vance critiquing Kamala Harris' identity as a step parent. I mean, you mentioned Your children and I know. You have Your two younger children are in this dynamic

called conscious co parenting. Like Has your Personal experience parenting impacted How you look at

Conversations about parenthood in politics? A little bit, but I mean, even if I didn't have this kind of you know very modern family arrangement with uh Noemi. people don't don't know, uh I have a friend and after Covet we decided to have two kids together and people thought that was really bizarre. Um But uh we know we we call it con you know conscious co parenting. And it has its ups and downs. I wouldn't recommend it for everybody.

But if you w if you if you have a friend and somebody you trust and somebody you like Having kids It's a lot like having a small business. And that you know, it's a lot of Uh

supply and demand and income and and and expenses and and project management and A lot of HR. And so if there's somebody that you would start a small business with, that might be a decent enough person to start a a a modern family with. And that's really been our been our experience. But I just think that J D Vance You know, his insults against you know, women who don't have kids are

Really meaningless. Trivial compared to his own. Insistance. That women do have kids. That don't want to.

His insistence that women Have kids is much, much worse than it's ridiculous for women who don't have kids. For this presidential election, there have been strong words on both sides about the repercussions If the other candidate is elected.

What do you think's at stake in this election? I really do think you have Very stark. differences between these candidates. There are always are differences, but

I think I think the direction of society is at stake. The w very worst. Potential in Donald Trump would Come out. in his next presidency, but I don't wanna find out.

Because If it did. He's already tested and strained Americans to the point of breaking. The worst of Kamala Harris would be

more aid and comfort to really obnoxious people on the left. who think they're better than everybody and and, you know, talk down to people. That strikes me as survivable. Um, the worst that comes from Camilla Harris's Maybe

Um Too much government spending. Maybe a tax policy that punishes innovation in a way, at least in the eyes of the innovators and the entrepreneurs. That sucks.

But you can then Hire somebody else to be president four years as survivable. The worst from Donald Trump I don't know. That's is it fifty years to fix, twenty years, a hundred years? I mean, how do you fix that stuff? So

I th I think it's I think it's very, very consequential. The state of the electorate is Yes. Part of what You know.

makes me so anxious that there So many people who are you know, adamantly believe that One candidate is a crook. And the you know, and and you can find lots of people on both sides who will make that argument about the other candidate. And I guess

I was hoping That Business leaders You know

Take up the middle and kind of mend some of that, but it seems like that's kind of subsided and business folks are just like, Yeah, I I don't I don't want to piss anybody off. I think that the business community when Biden was clear Incapable.

of running and certainly incapable of serving. And the bite of taxes at the very, very top. Create a permission structure. for a lot of people in the business community to move.

in directions that are just very scary to me. I mean listen, Elon Musk, right? He was an Andrew Yang supporter in twenty twenty. So four years ago Elon Musk with supporting an innovation first Democrat. And now he's, you know, clearly to the right of Trump and

I think imagines himself maybe being some kind of a Oligarch. And some you know, more authoritarian Country. That

Is Terrifying to me. I like Elon Musk when he's trying to figure out how to get to space and how to you know make g clean cars and And how to get innovation and government going with Andrew Yang. That's a

There's that's a massive asset to humanity. I like to see a lot more of the old Elon Musk. Well, power sometimes does strange things to people, right? I'd like to find out. If I if I get some more power, I'll let you know how it goes, but in the meantime, you know I just get to I get to talk about the people who do have it.

When you think about where we're headed for the rest of twenty twenty four. Are you optimistic? This is a year that people are gonna talk about like sixty eight. You had a new technology that was showing a young people things that they had never seen before and getting them all riled up, color television. Yeah, unpopular

Democratic incumbent. Johnson, who didn't decide to go through with the election. You had a guy named Bobby Kennedy jump into the race in sixty eight. You've got a guy named his son, Bobby Kennedy, jump into the race. This year. Uh, you've got the Democratic Convention in Chicago. Good I mean, it's literally like a glitch in the matrix. But

To me, what I take away from it is A lot more is possible than we think. Cotton Harris is fifty nine, she's almost six sixty years old. And she's just now coming into herself. Which means Anybody in America.

Can be that unpop kernel that pops into a completely Unexpected form. And No matter how bad things look for your company.

Uh for your health, for your family, for your democracy. Tomorrow's a new day. You have no idea what's coming. So much changed in a month. Like What's gonna change in the next month?

Who knows? Who knows? Expect The unexpected. the debate between Vice President Harris and and Donald Trump. Don't assume that your person is gonna win. Because

Both of them have done well and poorly. In debate situations. I I say all that just'cause it's true. And also I'm trying to keep our ratings up. So We'll see. This has been great. Really. I appreciate it. All right. Thank you, brother.

2024 is shaping up to be a really significant year in US history. It's an opportunity for us. to dig deep to try to understand where the spirit of this country is broken and how best to fix it. Modern politics can feel like rearranging deck chairs or alternatively a WWE wrestling event. But it's important for business leaders and technologists in this audience.

To think about what it means to care for your neighbors. why so many people feel uneasy about the future and how to expand the dream of America, as Van Jones puts it. While we're watching the next debate on the edge of our seats about what Kamala Harris or Donald Trump might say or do. We should also think about what we're gonna do. What folks like Van say on CNN or Fox

Matters for the moment, but what matters most Is how we're judged by future generations and future stakeholders. Let's hope we can keep our eye on the ball. I'm Bob Safien. Thanks for listening.

Rapid response is a wait what original. I'm Bob Safian. Our executive producer is Eve Tro. Our producer is Alex Morris. Assistant producer is Masha Maku Tonina. Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastanelli. Theme music by Ryan Holiday. My head of podcast is Lit al Malad.

For more, visit rapidresponsshow.com.

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