Serial Entrepreneur: Marcia Kilgore (2018)

So before we start the show, I want to tell you about a few how I built this live shows you can attend on the East Coast this fall, supported by American Express. First, I'll be heading to New York on September 10th, where I'll be talking with Christina Tosi of Milk Bar at Town Hall. And then I'll head to Washington, DC on September twelfth with Tristan Walker of Walker Company at Lincoln Theater. You can get your tickets and find out more about our live events, including a third East Coast show that we'll be announcing very soon at nprpresents.org. And I hope to see you there. I also want to let you know that tickets are almost entirely sold out for NPR's How I Built This Summit, happening this October in San Francisco. It's also supported by American Express. There will be a bunch of incredible founders there from companies like Spanx, Instagram, Slack, JetBlue, and many, many others. You can find out more information and get your tickets before they're gone.

at summit dot npr dot org. And one of the other founders that will be there is Marcia Kilgore. You know, some of us are lucky enough to have one really good idea that's worth building into a business, but Marcia Kilgore? She had five, five ideas all different. All of which turned into incredibly successful companies.

This is an unbelievable story. And I can't wait to talk to her more about it at the summit in San Francisco. We first ran this episode in January of last year. If you haven't heard it, it is so crazy. If you have heard it, it is totally worth Rehearing it one more time. Here it is.

I treated myself. to a facial after an economics exam, and I had saved forty or fifty dollars to go to this place that was supposed to be the be all and end all of facials. And I remember walking into that place and the aesthetician looked through the lamp at my skin and she actually went What a pity.

And I thought to myself This is not a treat. And I left feeling so horrendous. And I remember just seeing my reflection and my face was kind of raw and blotchy and thinking. If I Ever had a place like that, I would never make my customers feel bad about themselves.

I'm NPR? That's how I built this. They don't. I'm Guy Raz, and on today's show, how an eighteen year old named Marcia.

Kilgore moved from a small town in Canada to New York. with just three hundred bucks And turned herself into a serial entrepreneur. The founder of five companies, including Bliss Cosmetics. Fit flops.

According to the Small Business Administration, there's a 50% chance that your business will fail within the first five years. So there's some things that entrepreneurs do to maximize the chances that their businesses will succeed, like plan and research the marketplace. The way Arthur Blank and his partner Bernie Marcus did for nearly two years before they launched the Home Depot. Or the way Jen Hyman from Rent the Runway did tons of market research and proof of concept testing long before she went to investors. All of this raised the odds that these companies would make it past five years. Which brings us to today's show, because this is truly a story about someone who never had a bigger plan.

Marcia Kilgore didn't set out to become an insanely successful serial entrepreneur. She never sat down and said, Hey, I'm gonna start a day spa and a line of skincare products called Bliss, and then go on to start four more companies. She was a personal trainer who had a side hustle giving facials. And what happened to her happened Organically.

It just evolved into something bigger and bigger. Marcia actually grew up in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. Go ahead, find it on the map. It is a very cold place, even by Canadian standards. Anyway, a pretty middle class home. Dad was a real estate agent, mom took care of the house until age eleven. when Marcia's dad died after battling cancer. So her mom went back to work and Marcia well

She started working too. Which is how she became an aerobics instructor and then got really into fitness. So into it that at age 15, She decided to become a bodybuilder. Yeah, I mean I could probably bench press 185 pounds. I could probably s squat 300. It was it was actually a a skill and a uh hobby that parlayed itself into, you know, what I could do later. So it w it was helpful.

Uh how did you even get into that? Well, okay. So I think I've always loved a big challenge. And when I was living in Saskatoon, which was a small city and there wasn't really much to do, um my sister my uh middle sister started dating a guy whose Brother owned a gym. And he said, Hey, you should come down to the gym and work out. I used to run a lot. And I thought, Okay, well, you know, let me go down to the gym and check it out. It's something to do.

Because really. Saskatchewan. Ten month of the year. Pretty cold and there were only two television channels back then, so it was it was pretty dry. So I went down to the gym.

And I remember them hooking me up with this um female bodybuilder, her name was Sherry something, and she was Miss Canada bodybuilding at the time. And they gave me a couple of sessions with her. Uh learned how to do all sorts of, you know, different weightlifting um moves and routines and she worked me so hard. It was a basement gym and I could not walk up the stairs to get out of the gym. And I just thought well, you know, this is a

Interesting hobby. I've got the free membership. Let me do it. You I I don't know if this is this is like a a myth or not, but um apparently you became like a a Weight class. Bodybuilding champion in Kansas. I won let's see, Miss Southern Saskatchewan Middleweight.

I think I also won now. Don't laugh out loud. Miss Moose. Yeah, moose ja.

I said don't laugh out loud. But You know, it was great because I could also I mean, I taught aerobics when I was a teenager as well, just to earn extra money. I waitressed Um it you know, it it sort of lent itself to many different things that that were useful.

And and was was was the idea uh I mean, w did you did you have jobs and did you earn money in part because you I don't know, felt like there was some financial insecurity at home and that you I don't know, it was a way for you to kind of have some control over your own financial situation? I think that I knew my mother was under a lot of stress. Um, you know, just just from being a single mother and trying to make ends meet and I didn't want to be a drain. And if I could pay my own way in terms of at least not asking her for any money, then that was something that made me feel, you know, that it was it was relieving stress from her. Certainly I never made enough to pay the rent, um, but I didn't have to ask her for anything. Okay, so you're in high school and you're doing a bunch of jobs, you're a bodybuilder, you're teaching aerobics, so you're already like a like a fitness type person as a teen. Um and then what what was your

Well, when I was seventeen, um my sister who was living in New York at the time, so this was my oldest sister, Jody um she told me that if I could get accepted to Columbia University and get you know All the different entrance exams, then she would pay my tuition. Wow. How how was she able to do that? Uh she was a model. She was living in New York City and making decent cash. Decent cash. So I came to New York. I had three hundred dollars in my pocket, and I was supposed to go to Colombia, and that year, um, unfortunately my sisters Um financial situation was not as strong as she thought it was going to be. And so as I hadn't applied for a student loan for a foreign student early enough, it was too late for me to get a loan. So I kind of was in New York. With my three hundred bucks.

and no school to go to, and I had to figure it out. And this was like nineteen eighty seven. Yeah, nineteen eighty seven. Wow, so you you don't have money for school, uh you've got no work. Uh so w what'd you do? You know, this is the interesting thing. So I started you know, when I first arrived in New York, um I got myself a gym membership.

with the little money that I did have because of course once working out is part of your life, you really have to go and you have to go pretty much every day for an hour or else you start to kind of lose that endorphin dependency. And so there was a a really great gym called Better Bodies. And I met a film director there named Douglas Keeve. We chatted, you know, while we were working out and at one point he said, Hey, do you think you could be my personal trainer because I want to look more like you. He was very tall and kind of lean and I was probably a little bit more muscular, but not bulky. And so he wanted to have a physique like mine, and so he was my very first personal training client. And then other people through him he introduced me to and I started to train them and my sister then realized that I was a personal trainer and started to refer models and actresses and actors and stuntmen and you know all kinds of people to me. So I ended up having, you know, um

Quite a collection of interesting personalities as personal training clients. And started to build up the money that I needed to go to some part time classes at MYU. So I mean and did you have a plan? Like did you think all right, I'll do this, I'll take some classes at NYU, I'll be a personal trainer, and then but like long term I'm gonna do this or that. Did you was that even like part of the equation? You know what, guy? I had no plan.

I think I was in survival mode. I knew that Doing personal training, getting up at five AM and sometimes having your last client at nine thirty at night and then sleeping maybe five and a half hours and starting all over again and maybe going to a class somewhere during the day. That was unsustainable and I used to fall asleep in my um economics classes because I was so tired And then I started to develop quite um a bad case of acne, and it was probably because New York can be so humid. I was running around all day. and you want it to look decent, so you would put makeup on and then go to a you know a personal training session with someone where you're sweating and then you would put more makeup on because you didn't have time to go home and wash your face in between that client and the next client. So my skin got really bad. And one summer

I treated myself to a facial after an economics exam that I took at NYU and I had actually walked uptown, I had saved $40 or$50 to go to this place that was supposed to be the be all and end all of facials. And I remember going in there and I I had been under so much stress trying to write this exam, studying really hard, working all the time, you know, paying for everything myself. And I this was supposed to be a real treat. And I remember walking into that place. Laying down on the table, and the aesthetician looked through the lamp at my skin, and she actually went Uh And then she said.

What a pity. And I thought to myself, okay, okay, this is not a treat. Yeah. She actually then proceeded to go out into the, you know, common area of that spa and bring in the spa manager, who was a gentleman who came in and they both looked through the lamp at my skin and and sort of tisked and oh no, what a disaster. And I left feeling so horrendous. And I remember taking the subway home. And as the subway pulled up in front of me, you know, they have the stainless steel side, so you get your reflection, and I remember just seeing my reflection and my face was kind of raw and blotchy and thinking, if I ever had a place like that, I would never make my customers feel bad about themselves. And I remember I decided to take a crash course.

In skin care. And it I took this uh I think it was probably three or four weeks, crash course in skin care, you know, basic skincare and how to do facials. And I started to convince my personal training clients after I would take them jogging or give them a yoga class or whatever it was. To let me practice. Facials on them.

Wow. And and and like and you would have all the you know, I'm I don't I mean I haven't had a facial done ever. I'm s I'm just gonna be shot. Um uh like showing up in people's apartments with with like all the supplies you'd need to give a A f like a facial like I'm trying to picture this. You were you lugging around like potions and and lotions and and things like that? Oh yeah. I mean this was a huge bag of stuff. First of all, I carried a steamer.

Which is a very outdated piece of equipment I would never see in somebody's face now. Back then it was what everybody did and that was kind of the method that we learned and we thought That was good for the skin. And you know, since then we've learned that it's not so good for the skin. So I carry the steamer, which was Probably like a small coffee machine. And then I would have probably twenty tubes and jars and

Cotton pads and Uh towels and it you know, it was sort of um Like a giant backpack, right? If you were gonna go Hike the you know the trail. The Pacific Coast Trail?

If you were gonna go hike that, I was probably carrying around that much stuff. Because I would then also bring my personal training equipment, which probably f you know Thirty kilos. Wow. So you so you had this like This sort of

side thing going while you were also a personal trainer and I mean at at what point did you s sort of start asking people to pay you? For for facials. Well I don't think that any of my personal training clients, I don't think I ever charge them for a facial. And then at one point and it was

Kind of one of those beautiful organic things. Where um I was doing a lot of Uh young models. I was their personal trainer and there was an agency that used to send me all of the young models who were a little bit out of shape.

to get them in shape. And that agency had a couple of girls who were the bookers. and one of them had quite bad skin and started to come for facials. And then she started to send me all of the young models who had bad skin and I started to really Gain reputation for being able to clear up bad skin. At which point I got other people coming in who were not necessarily just, you know young new models but in fact um more well known individuals who happened to live downtown hear about me through the grapevine and you know started coming in and pay for that service.

And and where where are you doing this at this point? Well it started out in my apartment and then I rented a tiny little space, probably I'm gonna say Three hundred square feet? It was just a one room studio. I had a little closet where people could change. And a chair where they could wait, and that was what I had and people would come in for their facials there.

So you were probably you were you were constantly working, but it sounds like you were I mean, you were doing pretty well. I mean, you had money as a personal coming in from your personal training, you had money at coming in From the facials like that's I mean you you had expenses, but you were it sounds like you were covering them. Oh yeah, I was covering my expenses. I was a a very low maintenance person though, so I lived in in the East Village in my studio or it was it like sort of a you could kinda call it a one bedroom and I had a futon. For a sofa.

I had a tiny T V that one of my personal training clients had given me because they didn't want it anymore. It sat on a crate. I had a Vacuum cleaner. And you know, a a lamp and a radio, that was It's

So Yeah, I was I was um Mm a minimalist, let's say. And and were your clients still mostly models at at that point? Yeah, it was quite funny because I only had one door, right? It was a door and people would just stand outside the door and knock and then I would open the door and I remember from time to time opening the door And the person standing there was so

Outstandingly beautiful, male or female that I wouldn't be able to speak. But I would open the door and just kind of gasp and lose my breath and then I have to kind of, you know, get my composure back and welcome them in and show them where to change and then give them a facial. But that was when it really exploded and Everybody started to come in from Uma Thurman, I did Nicole Kidman, Demi Moore, uh Annie Liebowitz came in. Wait, h how did you get all these super famous clients? Like what was it what was your what was your technique? If I tell you, I'll have to kill you. I'm just really thorough.

I think it's really important to be thorough and do you know just Do the best job you could. Now, listen, most facials would take an hour, right? So th facial is generally an hour. I might be in there for two hours with somebody if they really needed it. For me time, you know, if I had the time and I could could have somebody have their treatment for longer, I would do it. And I think you get results when you put time in. So at what point did you think you know This really could be

a business. Like I need to think about turning this into just something beyond this three hundred square foot, you know, little sort of to something bigger. I think I realize that it could be a viable I guess career. Um when my appointment book started to be full for

Five to six weeks in advance. Um people would call and I couldn't necessarily get them in at the time that they requested. And I was working six days a week. And still still trying to hang on to some of my earlier personal training clients and realizing that it was just So hard to be able to do both that I might have to

Also realise that I could train other people to do And that wasn't something that ever entered my mind before because obviously, you know, when you think that your early path is you're gonna go to university and you're gonna have a profession, you're gonna work as that profession, I'd never again no one in my family had ever had their own business or

given me that example that you can run a business, that you can employ people, that you can grow an idea. So I think um probably after two years in that that tiny little three hundred square foot space, I hired someone um who came in and started to learn how I was doing treatments. And then I found a bigger Space that I could rent. Which was just

Two blocks away. And started to build out what was Then called Let's Face It. So so when how did you become Bliss? How did that how did that name become the name of your company? So at let's face it, it started to become so busy that we were booked and there were at that point probably five estheticians w

Esthetician being a person that gives facials. Um we worked on different shifts. So some were part time, but we tried to make the most of the twelve to fourteen hours that we could be open in our building during during each day, and we were also open on Saturdays. And at one point, probably after about two years, We were so busy that when people would call they wouldn't be able to get an appointment for Anywhere between, you know, fourteen and sixteen months. And so.

Yeah, well it w you know, it was so amazing because people would come in, they would have their treatment, they would leave they would be so happy and they would book For that same time slot. For the next twelve or eighteen months. I remember actually Great story. Do were you do you remember the huge snowstorm of

Must have been nineteen ninety four. What? Or ninety five in New York where Where there was snow piled up for twelve feet on the side of the roads and and Every everything around us was closing.

Crate Barrel closed, Dina Deluca closed, everybody closed. Our phone that day was a ringing off the hook with people saying, has anyone canceled? Can we get in? Because they were hoping that a point would become available. And that somebody else would have canceled their appointment and nobody canceled their appointments somehow, despite the weather, everybody still made it down there,'cause God forbid were they gonna cancel their appointment. So yeah, it was it was amazing. So I guess it was like like nineteen ninety six when when you open an even larger Storefront, right? And this is when you called it

Less, right? Yeah. And it was a uh Much. Bigger

area floor plate than we'd had at let's face it. We had ten treatment rooms and we had a nap room. Um and we opened in the beginning of July of nineteen ninety six. How did you have the money to do this? I mean it must you must have be I mean, you had to rent a space, you had to probably take a three year lease, you had to put lots of money down, you had to convert the space. I mean, did you bring in outside investment? At the time, uh it was pretty scary.

And I again, you know, having not had the experience of anyone or, you know, really any business school experience, I didn't really consider I didn't even think about outside investment. What I knew was Um that if I gay facial myself All day long. Every day. And I could probably take Sunday off.

And charged, you know, maybe it was eighty for a facial then, that I could still pay that rent. by myself and that was the calculation that I made. Um in terms of of the build out of the spa I I took a little bit of a flyer on that one because at that time, of course, we were booked for eighteen months in advance and I kind of did the calculation in terms of what um you know, what we made When we were full all day long. Every day.

Now we were really lucky. The timing was great on this. About two months before We opened Bliss and while we were still in the construction phases, um American folk did a beautiful piece with a beautiful Irving Pen portrait. Of a girl having milk poured over her head and talked about three creams and one of them was a um I think one of them was creme de la mer.

Which you know, Estelada went on to buy and turned it into a big thing. And one of'em was a Swiss oxygen cream that we sold. And When this Article dropped. Thousands of people started to call to buy this Swiss oxygen cream.

Wow. It Lasted probably for four or five months. of of you know this Article having such an incredible effect on the sales of products out of our

Yeah. That a lot of the construction costs were almost covered by that one article. Yeah, it's incredible. So I mean you you think about like renting a space in New York City today, in Manhattan today, and it's insane. Like you have to be uh multi millionaire. You have to put down tons of money and fill out tons of g applications and and And you did this in nineteen ninety six, which

Which I I mean, was it a time where you could still kind of do that and not be a millionaire? I think so. I think it was probably one of the last periods of time that you could do that and not be a millionaire. There seemed to be a little bit more trust in terms of here's You know, here's this kid. I remember the landlord just kinda looking at me thinking, Well here's this kid and she's obviously responsible and she's got this decent business already and you know, let's give it a shot. I I Certainly I flinched and it was terrifying filling out the paperwork. Um and it was you know, looking at it and thinking of the responsibility of that overhead. But for me, because I'd never had anything.

To lose everything. Was not a big deal. So here here's what I'm trying to figure out. There were there were s spas and they're st they're still there in New York. But but you come in and you have this

this despa, let's call it, that that somehow was just exploded in in in I mean, there was just articles and people were lining up and making appointments. What was it about Bliss? What were you offering That was different. And and since then, all the businesses that I've started have been places that I wanna go. So I wanted to go to get a facial or get a body treatment or get a pedicure in a nonjudgmental place where people were having fun, where the music was not about whales singing or you know I hated that kind of music. I loved You know, jazz and really good

Soulful music. So I used to mix the music myself. Um and I wanted it to be different. I want it to be a place that I would like to go, that I would feel comfortable, where people would be accepting of me. You know, and so that's what we did for everybody else and I think It was Fantastic because it was very egalitarian. You would have those superstars in there, so Madonna and whoever, but then you would also have

Secretaries, you've had kids from NYU who had, you know, terrible problems with their skin and just wanted relief from it and they were, you know, going to school up the block so it was easy for them to come to us. Yet really everybody and it was It was wonderful because everyone was was treated exactly the same way. Yeah. I think I'd be nervous um getting Madonna a facial.

She was very curious. She's one of those people who had tons and tons of questions. You know, what are you doing now? What is this? What is that supposed to do? But you know, strangely I wasn't really nervous giving anybody a facial. It was so much fun. There were so many characters. Um, from the people who work at the front desk. to the clients. You know, New York is so full of amazing characters. It is like watching a television show, right? It didn't seem like work at all. In just a moment.

How Marcia sold Bliss and then turned around and founded a new company. And then another And then another And then Another

Stay with us, I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to How I Built This. From NPR. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This from NPR. I'm Guy Raz. So it's 1996, let's face it, becomes Bliss, and it opens as a day spa in New York's Soho neighborhood. And almost instantly the phones are ringing off the hook. So in a very short period of time, Marcia decides to expand to double the size of Bliss. She also gets married around this time to her boyfriend Thierry, and he joins the business. And the two of them decide to try new things, like make a line of skincare products under the name Bliss. And soon they start talking about expanding to other cities. But just as things start to take off,

This is three years into the business. A huge multinational brand comes knocking, LVMH, the conglomerate that owns Louis Vuitton, and they want a piece of bliss. 70% and they're offering Marcia a lot of money. So the amount of money uh that's been reported it was anywhere from uh thirty to fifty million dollars for that uh that 70% stake, which is a lot, but you guys were just hitting your stride, so why did you sell at that point? Вал, діно, форте.

Prior to 1999, we actually had a lot. It was a it was a hot time for beauty companies. So retrospectively, um, there were a lot of cool new companies starting and a lot of interest in those companies from the big beauty conglomerates. They were starting to buy up smaller players rather than you know trying to build their own. And of course Bliss had such a reputation that we we had more than one large large company come and try and get us. And I think the most exciting thing for me at that time was the idea of not having All of the financial responsibility for that business on On my head we actually were we had expanded and along comes a large company, starts looking at our books, which was

was also very funny because they had a an accountant, I think, based in Chicago, who couldn't believe that we were making this money without doing something illegal. Ha. So they came in and they did a report and there were all these things in the report like You know, Bliss purports to have celebrity clients. Bliss purports to be doing facials in the back. It was really it was quite funny to read. I guess they've just never seen anything like it before. Um but

It seemed like after so many years of being Kind of flat broke. Or You know On the edge.

it would be nice just to have a little bit of money in the bank. Yeah, because again, I mean uh obviously Bliss was doing really well, but you guys were I guess still living Pretty modestly. Yeah, uh okay, so for anybody who's lived their entire life worrying about money or, you know, just kind of you know, living very minimally. You do wonder if that's your motivation.

And if your motivation and all those skills that you've developed will somehow profoundly change when suddenly there are some zeros in your bank account. So that was a bit of a crisis thinking, will I be different if I'm not starving? But It was just too good an offer. to refuse. They had flown me to Paris on the Concorde. Uh I had gone to the Christian Jure boutique. They took me to Orleans where their factory was where they were, you know, manufacturing mascara and

I'll be fair. And then and then you come back to New York. Actually I have to say, I came back to New York. I flew back on the Concorde and I'm on the subway and there's You know, Coca-Cola spilt all over the seeds and garbage strewn everywhere, and I remember hanging on that subway car thinking, God, I wonder if I was the only person on the Concorde this morning that's in this subway. And it was just It was f it was funny because I could happily do both.

But you did realize that maybe after having worked my tail off. for fourteen to sixteen hours a day for the last however many years at that point, I guess it would have been eleven years. Um, maybe it didn't have to be that hard anymore. So I mean, did it change you, like like suddenly coming into all this money? You know, I think um you get a few a few

dollars in your bank account and I did have a laugh and we used to joke when it got wired. You know, we said the eagle has landed and you know we laughed and then we went and got groceries in our regular shop in Brooklyn. You don't see money, do you? It just goes into It's numbers on a on a piece of paper and it lands and then yeah, maybe You might Fly business class.

And maybe you might go and buy a few more clothes than you normally would, maybe once. And then you realize uh You know, what you love is what you love and I think it takes quite a long time to start. Living differently when

When Live for so long with the same attitude. Okay, so you guys uh in nineteen ninety nine you sold uh about seventy percent of the company to to L VMH. Uh and then a a couple years later, like two thousand four, I think you sold the rest of your shared to another company, and then you walked entirely away from Bliss. What was What was going on in y in your life at that point? Why did you decide

To do that. So LVMH after two thousand and one. Um they started to divest of most of their beauty businesses. And we were one of the first ones to get snapped up by another business. So Starwood Hotels and Resorts.

And they wanted to put those into W hotels and and other hotels. And so Yeah, that was also very flattering. So first I had, you know, one of the largest luxury groups in the world buy my business and then I had the largest hotel group in the world buy my business. So, you know, two two good hits there. But they put somebody in charge of the business who was a young guy, probably the protege of the the man who owned Starwood at the time, who really didn't understand customer service the way I understood it. And I felt like I was spending most of my day trying to teach him, but he was reticent.

And for me You know. to spend my time on

That when the person is not necessarily Open to the ideas. Just felt like Banging my head against the wall. And it was very draining.

So I decided to take a break from it. And I didn't really know what I was gonna do. But I just didn't want to do that anymore. So when when you left uh Starwood Uh w what did you do? Did you I know uh that you m moved to London uh for for a while. Did you just kinda hang out and and enjoy not working for a while?

I probably had about three months off. And um as soon as I I had um had a little bit of energy back. I started to

Come up with a few new ideas for uh you know, new brands and and new things that I as as a woman again Saw a hole in the marketplace for. So I guess the we should we should we should point out here that it didn't take very long for you to decide to start a new business, which which was soap and glory. Um, and this is gonna be like m affordable personal hygiene products.

Yeah, uh okay, so I remember just you know, scanning newspapers and scanning these journals every Sunday and seeing the zeitgeist really being one about collaborations and, you know, high street prices or, you know really affordable pricing for designer stuff, and H M was leading the way with this. And also about waste. Um there was starting to be a lot of A lot of Um

interest in environmental concerns. There was this story about David Beckham only wearing his underwear once and throwing it out and how wasteful it was, you know, all of this. And so I I started to think You know, people are really worried about the environment and people want more for their money. And so how can I roll that all up and do A fun little brand that I can sell.

And so and glory it was designer affordable. Cosmetics. And then of course uh we also did very simple packaging that wouldn't be um, you know, too hard on the environment and This sort of th took all of those zeitgeist ideas and bundled them up and so we launched at Harvey Nichols. Really fun department store. And then Boots came knocking. Um and Boots is the big the big drug store, yeah. Yeah, the big drug store, and they've got probably eighteen hundred stores throughout

Britain and so we rolled out into boots and it was It was actually very small for the first couple of years. We didn't do that much business, but within I'd say seven, six or seven years we were probably retailing about a hundred million. Wow, and you didn't and you did not take any outside investment for this company. Um no.'Cause you didn't need to. You had you could use the money that you had from the sale of Bliss to launch this next company. Yes, and it was very organic growth. I mean, you people think about these overnight successes and very rarely are they an overnight success, right? Things do take years and they grow, but then once they grow big enough they start to snowball. And so it started to snowball, and at at one point I remember

Us doing these Like crazy Christmas bags where There were these Christmas bags just stuffed full of products, and there were literally hundreds of thousands of them produced every Christmas. And you know, the the week before Christmas there would be this special offer where you could go in and get this soap and glory Christmas bag and if you walked around London Every third person was carrying.

Three or four of these on their arms. It was such a big deal. Yeah. So in the midst of of launching Soap and Glory Like a year later. you launched another company. In addition to that, you launched a

Uh a company that makes uh like flip flop shoes called called the Fitflop. So how did that happen? And why would you launch a second company whilst trying to uh launch a first company or a th second company, why why would you launch a third company while trying to get your second company off the ground? Do you know, this is a very interesting question. Why launch two kind of simultaneously? However, I have just read this book called Originals, and there's one chapter

In that book where it says True entrepreneurs always hedge their bets, right? You don't give up your day job because you think that your, you know, side hustle or whatever it is is gonna actually pay off. You always do two things at the same time because one of them may not work and you wanna make sure that you've got another one. And it's kind of like personal training. While I was doing facials, right? And I guess I did that Again where With Soap and Glory when I started it, you know, it was only a year later that I also launched Fitflop, and it was really based on the idea for one shoe which was ergonomically correct, which would align your body while you walked. And because of my personal training days and trying to use my time more efficiently and having started this

this new business soap and glory, thinking that I'd have work life balance, and then finding that I had no time at all, actually, or very little time to exercise, I was thinking to myself, What can I invent to make more out of this time that I That I have when I am walking. You know, how can I make walking really work for me in an optimal way? So I then spent a lot of time on different trains in the UK, going to different universities, trying to find somebody who would be able to help me realize this idea. And in fact, eventually I found doctor Dave Cook at the University of South Bank in London, which was probably a mile away as the crow. So I eventually met with Doctor Cook and I went in, I said, Here's the idea, blah blah blah, and he said, Oh, I know how you can do that.

So they told me they could make a prototype because they had a shoe design. Um course going on within the university. It went I waited and waited and waited. About three months later, I come in to see this prototype and it literally it looked like a lump of coal with some ropes on it. And then I was like, We can't sell this. This is so ugly. No one will wear this outside no matter what it does for them. But we tested it, right? So we we put it on some Uh different.

university students' feet and we put electrodes on them and we looked at their forces and you can see whether or not the technology is helping to um align the force that goes through your heel, which is your heel strike when you walk. And um it It worked, right? So this this lump of coal with the ropes, it It worked. So I then thought, okay.

What do I do now? I've got the shoe. It does what I want it to do. I don't know how to make a shoe or where to go to get shoes made. And then I thought, Well, I could go to Nike or Puma or whatever, and then I thought, No, I can't because they're gonna steal my idea. Yeah. And then in the recesses of my mind.

Right. I remembered that I knew somebody who did footwear at the time they were called Peter Black. They've since been bought by a Chinese conglomerate. But we called Peter Black footwear and we met with somebody who did sourcing for them. And then we had a mold made. Which again, you know, it was one of these things you gotta take a flyer. It was probably $40,000 to have the mold made? So you have to really hope this is gonna go because forty forty thousand dollars is not nothing.

Um but at the time. I thought, you know what, I'd buy this shoe if this shoe was available, so I'm sure other people will buy this shoe. And so we drew one up, we made a prototype. It was incredibly comfortable. Like incredible. And I remember sitting down, so of course I went to retailers that I knew, from my American days first, and then and then also to Boots in in the UK who was selling soap and glory. But about a year before that I had met with Bath and Body Works, and I explained the idea. And the buyer from Bath Body Works looked at me and said, I'll take somewhere between 300,000 and 500,000 pairs of those a year. Wow. I was shocked I remember walking away because they wanted to meet at Clarid's, so we went to Clarid's, you know, and had tea and talked about it. And I remember

Walking out of Clarity is just thinking Oh This is like This is a whole new level. I don't know. Yeah. I mean I couldn't give three hundred thousand facials a year. Um I mean it's it it's incredible. I I mean if you if you think about it, right, so you

You sell bliss, you walk away from bliss in two thousand four. You then launch Soap and Glory in two thousand six, run that business, simultaneously launch the ergonomic shoe line Fit Flop in two thousand seven You sold Soap and Glory to Boots, I guess, in two thousand fourteen. And then last year you launched a brand new business. A

A subscription service for high end cosmetics that that are actually sold for very little money called beauty pie. Um Mm. How do you do that? How do you how do you create so many how do you stay on top of so many different ideas and companies.

You know, Guy, today I don't feel like I'm quite so on top of it. But beauty pie, the whole idea behind it was Knowing. you know, in the cosmetics industry how fun it is to go to some of these third party labs.

And that you walk out of there with you know, bags full of free cosmetics. And you know, you're you're walking through a cosmetic store with a bag that you just got from the third party lab that's probably got a two thousand dollar street value. And they were all free and thinking Wow.

You know, what if I could bring every woman into the Into the luxury cosmetic. factory with me and we could rate it together, how fun would that be? Like what a thrill. It's like being a kid in a candy store. And so that was the idea behind Beauty Pie. How do I How do I give women the same feeling that I have because the funnest part of being able to work in cosmetics is when these free boxes of stuff from the lab show up. And BeautyPie is a little bit different. You buy stuff at the factory cost, but it's practically free compared to what you would pay for it at retail. W what what's interesting is that you don't seem to be, um, sort of sentimentally attached to your companies. You you launch them, you create them, you turn them into these incredibly successful companies, and a and you've sold at least two of them and and you may

sell others? Do you is there a certain point where you just say, Yeah, I don't you know, I I just want to move on and and and start something new? Like is it is it almost like like when a a business becomes too big or Or or you just kinda get bored, you you wanna uh start something new. You know, I've thought about this one a lot because I I do get asked, you know, why Why do you keep doing this?

And um and I think about the thrill that is beauty pie right now, which is really like I'm rubbing the sticks together. And I think it's What really drives me and what I really love You know, have you ever heard the expression your first marriage is for love, the second one's for money, and the third one's for companionship? I think some famous divorcee say probably said that one. Um but the companionship that

But I get out of having a business where I can really interface with women and I'm making them happy. And some men, of course. We have we have four percent men at the moment, but being able to make people feel that happy and And have them communicate that to me is what

Yeah. It's Why do you think that, uh that your your brain works that way. That That you just

are generating all these ideas all the time. And and ideas that that don't just kinda float up in in into space, that ideas that you actually stop, sit down and start to really They they almost seem to obsess you. They they seem to just Overtake everything in in in your world. Like Why do you think That happens to you. How did I end up like this?

Yeah, so well sort of, yeah. I You know, I have thought a lot about that because you have to psychoanalyze yourself and I I also tell wannabe entrepreneurs, right? I always tell them that one of the tools that they should have is the understanding of how the human brain works, right? Because if you can understand how your brain is fooling you

when you might be reacting to something rather than making a sound decision or when you might be feeling insecure when you really shouldn't be or when you're jumping to a judgment um that y that necessarily doesn't have enough information to back it up. Now when you try to then go psychoanalyze yourself, I would say well I must be extremely competitive because I will come up with these ideas and think Uh. I can't do that. And then I'll think, Whoa come on, I have to do that. And then I'll think, God, if I don't do that fast, somebody else is gonna do it. And I don't know why I care. I mean, why do I care if somebody else goes and does it?

There must be some competitive aspect to it, and so I'm much More comfortable. where I feel like I'm building something and it It's got to be genetic, right?'Cause there's nothing else that would Really explain this.

How much of uh of your success do you think is because of of your intelligence and hard work and how much how much do you think is because of luck. Okay. See. Okay.

I'd say I'm certainly above average. And intelligence. I'm not a genius. I know a lot of people who are, you know, much more intellectual than I am and actually much more strategic.

And People will always say that I'm very strategic, but I don't think of myself as such a strategic person. I just tend to think of things in very simple Terms. Luck, I've certainly had some.

I mean moving to New York and having a sister who was really good looking and in a field where she could give people who could afford my services You know the um an introduction to me so that I could have clientele and then more of those people. would refer more of those people, that's certainly lucky. Um however, if I wasn't good at what I was doing, I don't think I would have any of them. And if I didn't show up on time and if I wasn't friendly and

you know, reliable, I suppose. You get a bit of luck. And then you have to make something out of it. And I find When I see and I'm sure you see this as well, you see people who are so talented

um or you know, really genius at what they do, but they're not ever really successful. They're always struggling. And I always wonder. You know, is it just a choice that you make where at one point you say, you know what, I am I am worthy

I deserve this, why not me? Because you know, why not you? And if you're willing to work that hard, why shouldn't you then take the success that comes with it? Um and I think that's a very complex thing for many people. And somehow I've managed to

Overcome that. Yeah. mean it it is amazing how many uh how many of these companies that you've created you and all the things you've done. By the way, have you have you ever come up with an idea that that you thought was just gonna Do amazingly well that you just didn't pursue'cause it wasn't actually quite right? I have one right now, but I It's not that I'm not pursuing it because it's not right.

But I can't say what it is because we're patenting you at the moment. Right now, you are gonna launch something new on top of all these other things that you do. Incredible. Like how do you doesn't your brain wanna explode? Only if I've had too many espresso. Marcia Kilgore, she's the founder of Bliss Spa's, soap and glory skincare products, pit flops, ergonomic shoes, beauty pie makeup. And also a fifth brand, we just ran out of time to talk about it, it's a line of environmentally friendly bath products called Soper Duper. Marcia's built so many companies that on the last episode of the Oprah Winfrey Show, Oprah named her one of her personal inspirations.

Hey, thanks for sticking around because it's time now for how you built that. And we're updating a story today that ran about a year ago. It starts in twenty fifteen in Los Angeles with a guy named Miles Pepper. I went to my local coffee shop to grab an iced latte before heading off to work. And as I was leaving the shop, I put a plastic straw in my drink as normal habit. But as it happens, just the night before, Miles had seen a program about plastics that are polluting the ocean. I had just seen the video of the sea turtle with a straw stuck up its nose, and I was thinking to myself that I already have a reusable water bottle. I already have a Reusable coffee cup.

Why don't I have a reusable straw? Yeah, a reusable straw, not made out of plastic, but maybe metal. A straw that could fold and collapse like a temple. And a way to Guarantee that it would always be on me would be if it was the size of the car key. So I wanted a collapsible straw that was small enough to fit in a case.

the size of a car key. But unfortunately, Miles didn't know the first thing about how to make a collapsible straw. So I started talking with friends, I started talking with these designers that I had been working with. And this mutual friend said, Hey, you should call Emma. Do you remember Emma? And in fact, Miles did remember Emma. She was an acquaintance who also hated plastic straws. She'd even done a TEDx talk about it. Straw suck. We become accustomed to living disposable lifestyles. Based on convenience.

And so Emma and I then jumped on the phone. The phone rings October 2017 and he says, Hey, I've got this idea for a collapsible straw. And I just remember he first sounded really excited on the phone and it w it got me really excited. So anyway, Miles found an industrial designer in LA to help him develop a collapsible stainless steel straw. And while they were working on the design, I was working on creating a social media presence. I have a love of memes and one of my favorite ones was filling a pack of cigarettes with straws and at the bottom it says break the habit. After about a month and a half. Mon Miles had a prototype of a straw that folds into fourths and fits into a little plastic case that you could carry on a keychain. And next?

A Kickstarter campaign. And the big goal was 5,000 straws, which would have been about$70,000. But we sold about 60,000 straws and closed a month later with$1.89 million in the bank. Which sounds amazing, right? Except Emma and Miles discovered a really big problem. There's companies out there that are patrolling Kickstarter and looking to see when people throw a successful campaign. And as soon as they see that overnight success, then they jump on it and they use the measurements that are provided on the Kickstarter to create an exact replica of that item. In fact is exactly what happened to Emma and Miles.

These random sharks basically hijacked their idea. made some quick, cheap knockoffs, and started fulfilling orders before Emma and Miles could even get their straw out into the world. I mean it's shocking. And Emma says the hardest part for her is the fact that most of these knockoffs are complete junk, and so They're just ending up in the trash can. And the entire purpose of our company was to reduce waste. And so I feel weirdly responsible. And you know, no matter how many people tell me that it's not my fault, like it's still Emma started filling Kickstarter orders in November of twenty eighteen, and she says this past year

has been like business school on speed. I don't know, it's like going down a river in a tube, like you just don't know what to expect and every moment is either like very serene and calm or you're maybe gonna die. Um And I love it. That's Emma Cohen, the co-founder of Final Straw. And by the way, since we last spoke with them, Final Straw has been issued a patent. and has sold about five million dollars worth of collapsible metal straws. Emma is now working on their next reusable product.

Final Fork. If you want to find out more about Final Straw, head to our podcast page, how IbuiltThis.npr.org, and of course If you want to tell us your story, go to build.npr.org. And thanks so much for listening to the show this week. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and while you're there, please do give us a review. You can also write to us at hibt at npr.org. And if you want to send a tweet, it's at How I Built This or at Guy Raz. Our show was produced this week by Rachel Faulkner with music composed by Ramteen Arablui.

Thanks also to Julia Carney, Neva Grant, San Azmechkin Four, and Jeff Rogers. Our intern is David Job. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to how I built this.

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