Advice Line: Growing Beyond Your Niche

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Dot com slash BFCM Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Roz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you. Last week, we released a mashup of never before heard conversations with callers from previous episodes of the show, and this week we've three more of those conversations because some of the advice was so good. We just thought you had to hear it. And of course, if you are building something and you need advice.

Give us a call, you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. You can also send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com, and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for free at gyros.com. And we'll put all this info in the podcast description. Alright. Let's get to it.

The first conversation is actually the very first advice line call we ever took. My guest that day was Fawn Weaver, the founder of Uncle Nearest Premium Whiskey, and Fawn told me all about how she used a story to build her brand when she first came on the show back in 2021. And when she joined me on the advice line, She used a lot of her own experience to guide our callers in their storytelling. First caller, are you there? Hi guy. Hi von. Hello. Hi.

Tell us your name and and where you're from and what what your business is. So my name is Oni Colston. I am the founder and CEO of Keep It Random Entertainment. Our premier product is Wemo. which stands for what are my options. It is a two in one game. Think Social truth or dear meets Dear Diary.

So it's a conversation starter. We start the conversation and inspire new conversations. Our first edition is the Friends Edition and it's for ages. Seventeen and up. Got it. And and where where are you based, Onie? I'm in Fort Worth, Texas. In Fort Worth. Okay. Thank you for calling. So all right, so it's called

What are my options it's a board game and basically designed to I guess kinda like an icebreaker game or like to get to know people better, right? Yes, it's actually a board and card game. That's what makes it a two in one game. So you can play with the board or with cards only. And the idea is getting with your friends, really whoever you want to play with and have engaging conversation. But also compete. And just learn something about each other, sharing your experiences, your perspectives, and your beliefs.

So what are some of the prompts on the cards, for example? So they range in intensity. Play it safe. Up a notch, all in and test my luck. We'll play a safe.

First. Okay. One of the questions um is Do you believe that billionaires are stingy if they decide to keep their money. Fan, what would you say?

I wouldn't call it stingy. I think it's just a matter of what your moral compass is. And so for me, uh everything that I build is for other people. That is just me. It's what drew me to this story. is it was so much about other people. But for those who choose not to, that's that's on them too. I'm gonna say I'm gonna reserve judgment and say, uh, you know, everybody's got to make their own decisions.

Yes. And so the answers they vary. And I think when you're playing with other people, you get it the opportunity to learn from other people. you know, together versus just being like on your phone or talking about it on social media. Only tell us a little bit about how this came about. What what were you doing, um, when you decided to to create this game?

So in two thousand nineteen, I had my daughter. And so I was spending so much time with her to where all of my attention went to her. Which meant that I was neglecting my husband, who I'd known since we were in college at like nineteen or twenty, right? So I started thinking of just a creative way for us to connect. I didn't have a lot of money for us to go out on this fancy dinner. So I just started creating cards on Microsoft Word. And we started asking each other questions and from there I was like

You know what? I could do this with My friends. And so that's when I decided to turn it into the conversation starter. So cool. And and and how did you Like what was the next step to actually Going from a Microsoft Word, you know

Pages to Going and finding somebody who could make this board game and manufacture it for you. Oh my gosh, when I tell you it was A challenge, I will say. Um

I tested the game out with my family and friends and also strangers, and that told me you do actually have something. It's not just you thinking that this is a good idea. And so then I I literally just started drawing it out. I went to Walmart. I got a board. And I hand drew it out. And I tested that out with my family and my friends.

And from there I literally just started calling around. Googling and I just started Taking the steps. So I have I have a question for you. I'm since since you've been talking, I've been busy Googling over here and just looking at Wamo. And one of the things I notice is when I go to Google search and I put in one one.

Is that I get Twenty different options of WAMO urban dictionary. radio stations, YouTube things. The Washington Monument actually apparently is referred to as WAMO. So I get all of these different things. What I don't get is You

And your company and your board game. So Have you found that you're able to break through the noise using that particular acronym. So originally I I had like twenty different names on my list for the game. And I just started saying, What are my options? Because in the game you have options. But what are my options was just too long.

And I thought about all the games that I played growing up. Everything's one word. And that's where I came up with Wow. So I thought it was catchy.

Um, but it is it has been a challenge to break the noise, honestly. Yeah, there's There are a bunch of WAMOs. You to find it, you type it you gotta type in WAMO board game. And I see it and it's awesome. And I mean the the the site looks good and it's Simple. Um, and look, ultimately a name is it it may or may not really matter, right? We've had tons of companies on the show with I mean, think about one of the most successful brands in recent years with maybe one of the weirdest names, liquid death for water, right? We told that story. So

Names, it all depends, right? And and it's also given where you are in the business. you could you could change it if you wanted to. Let let me let's let's dive into your question, because you you have a very specific question for Fawn around how to take this to the next level. Um so Only w what wha what's your question? So my question to you, Fawn, is how have you been able to stand tall and be confident in an area in which you didn't have any background?

Right. I was confident in I was confident in myself. And so the the confidence has to resonate from inside of you. If the if the confidence is coming from a product That's a flawed strategy because you might have a product That fails.

And you might start another product, that product may fail. It may not be until you're on your fourth product, but you have to believe in yourself you'll hear uh investors say this a lot is that they always bet on the jockey. And every now and again, luck would have it that the jockey has a good horse. But they never bet on the horse.

And so that confidence has to come from inside of you, especially as you are I imagine this is a costly endeavor. And I imagine you are if you're not already raising money, you'll have to raise money. That confidence if you don't exude that in Every space that you walk into when you're raising money. they will shut it down while you're still talking.

because they are looking for that level of confidence. But it has to come from you. I I think that's such great advice and I love the horse analogy, especially given that you are in the Kentucky, Tennessee area. It makes a lot of sense. But I I wanted to add to that and build on what Fon said, which is that Part of developing confidence is going through A period of time where

You're working to get there, especially when you're coming into an arena in an area where you don't know you you don't have a whole lot of experience. It comes with just developing experience, exposing yourself to other people in the area, being and and being transparent about what you don't know because what you'll all often find, Oni, is that a lot of people will want to help you. They will want to give you advice. Uh Fan, I remember when you started with the distillery, you went and talked to a lot of people and And sure, some people might have dismissed you, but there were people who really did want to help out, right?

Oh, absolutely. In the beginning there were twenty different historians, archivists, archaeologists, genealogists who all got together and none ever charged me. So you will find that there are people who genuinely want to simply help you. Guy and I are s are are on here talking to you right now. We simply want to help you. So the to Guy's point, if you are transparent. about what you don't know. But you can do that and still have a level of confidence in who you are. As a ліder That confidence of whatever my hand touches

I can make it succeed. I may have to learn it'cause I knew nothing about whiskey coming into this, and I mean nothing. But You can learn that piece. Only tell me what

what your sort of vision for the next phases like now, okay, you've got a website, you've got this product Now How do you get it in the hands of people? So we've already begun selling. We've been going to markets.

Um and I say we But it's Me and of course the help of uh my husband and also my close friend. But we've been going to markets to sell, of course using social media Uh but really the Hardest part is

Telling the story and getting the story out there. But definitely just pressing every single day to put a piece of content out there, going to all the markets and just sharing the story in the game. Uh well I think the story is gonna be out there now. Congratulations on launching this. Good luck, it's such a cool idea. Um Oni, thanks so much for calling in.

Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you, Fan. Thank you, guy. It was so nice to meet you all and thank you so much. All right. Bye. Well. Fun. The story of Uncle Nearest is It's like a movie. This guy, he was enslaved, he taught Jack Daniels how to make whiskey, then Jack Daniels becomes Jack Daniels, and Uncle Neerest is basically forgotten until recent years.

And you revive this I mean you build a brand around him. So you had a story, but what about Brands that don't have a s a a natural story or or a s or a clear story, where do they start? Well the every brand has a story because every human has a story and every brand is founded by a human. Yeah. And so if your brand itself does not have a story With y you're doing it for a reason.

There's a story behind why you are doing it. So if you look at Uncle Nearest. On any given day, there might be between five and eight press hits around the world, major publications. And they're all telling different stories about the brand. And a lot of those stories are not the story of Nair's Green.

And Jack Daniel. Because I've now told the story of my upbringing, the importance of this not only being black owned. but remaining black owned and passing to the next generation so that we can begin to decrease the wealth gap. I've talked about how our distillery, now the seventh most visited distillery in the world, thanks in part to you. Thank you so much. But you're welcome. I've told the story of how that distillery every single weekend you will find people from every race, religion, background, political affiliation. And you don't expect to find that in America if you're actually watching the news. You know, you might have the guy with the cowboy hat and the belt and the boots on, and we had the roots playing.

The roots were there and you had all these people in Cowboy boots and They can scoot boogie at the same time somebody else is doing the wobble. But that is something that is unique to our company. our brand and I tell that story on a daily

basis. So you also have to figure out What are elements of your story that are interesting to people? Yeah. We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, we'll hear another advice line call, this time with Andrew Abraham, founder of Orgain. Stay with us, I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to the advice line on how I built this lab. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. So

Andrew Abraham first came on the show back in 2023 and told the incredible story of how a cancer diagnosis as a teenager eventually led him to starting the company or Gain. And earlier this year, Andrew came back onto the device line to offer some great Great advice to our callers. Welcome to the show Tell us your name and the name of your business and uh what the business does briefly. Absolutely. So I'm Ken Dalschmitz with Tear Restore Inc. Uh, what we do is we develop over the counter treatments.

to treat the cause of dry eye syndrome. Got it. And where uh are you based? We are based out of Minneapolis, Minnesota. Awesome. Okay, and and what's your question? What what question did you bring for for us today? So my question to Andrew um is what strategies did you do to educate customers at scale?

So when you were launching into a broad retailer like Costco, how did you express the benefits that Working has? All right. Great question. We're gonna get to your question in just a moment, but let me let me just ask you a couple questions about So this is um so T restore helps keep your eyes

moist like for dry eye. Tell me a little bit about dry eye syndrome because I I'm I guess I'm lucky I don't Oh get it. I have it. Absolutely. So so dry eye syndrome is a very common condition. New studies are showing that almost a third of people actually have symptoms of chronic dry eye syndrome. And the reason for that is because of the extended screen use. So they're staring at screens right now and the average person stares at a screen for nine hours a day.

And it literally it's literally just your eyes getting dry, feeling like rough. Exactly. So the the primary cause of dry eye syndrome is the breakdown of the oil glands within the eyelids. And every time you blink, you're squeezing oil out onto that tear film. And if you're staring at a screen, you blink less. Got it. Okay. And so this is not like Visine, right? Which is it's I think it just t makes your eyes.

Not red, right? How is this different from what is of'cause there are products out there I'm pretty sure of that. That help with this, right? Correct. So the most common uh treatment is going to be eye drops. Um, but all that's doing is just temporarily relieving the symptoms.

of dry ice uh for a short period of time. What we do is we focus on treating those oil glands within the eyelids. by warming them up to the right temperature so that they can express more. Or we clean them off to allow them to express more oil onto that tear film. Wow. So so it warms the oil glands.

In the eyelids and that then helps to Like lubricate the surface of the eyeball. Exactly. So the outer surface of your tear film on the front of your eye is an oil layer. And so when you don't have enough oil then your tears evaporate too quickly.

And so what we do is we increase the amount of oil that's in the tears. Got it. Okay. Andrew. Medical technology here. First of all, do you I'm sure you've got some questions for Ken.

I do. I mean, first I'd say, Ken, congrats on what you're doing. I'm I'm a huge proponent of eye health. You know, I wear blue light glasses religiously. And really feel like we neglect our eye health as a society with how much screen time we have. So I so I really appreciate kind of what you're doing here. Um just curious, like What has been your your biggest challenge to date so far? With the business.

So our biggest challenge is e is educating people on a wide scale. We launched going through physician offices and selling our products through there. Um, but now we're on a scale where we've entered some of the large retailers. And we need to be able to educate people on a wide scale about dry eye and how they should be treating it. Hm.

Yeah, it's it just just reminds me a little bit of like Brands like Temper Pedic, which really began as pillows. And and they started out at chiropractors' offices, you know, hoping that that that's how they would sell a brand. Viore, the the the athletic wear brand, they started out at yoga studios and it it was challenging Your challenge is getting people to understand.

what this product is and why they need it, essentially. Exactly. Yeah. And that That gets to kinda the core of your question, right, Ken, that you asked a little bit earlier? Yep, absolutely. So I'm wondering how when you launched into a

broad market like Costco. Um, how did they know to choose orcain and that it was going to benefit them in some way? Yeah, it was it was certainly a challenge we had. And I think first, while this is a very medically focused product, in my eyes, I think you have a real opportunity to shift the marketing and narrative into more lifestyle rather than medical. I mean Guy was on earlier and he's you know was tell us earlier that he doesn't think he has dry eyes, he feels fine. But I'll tell you, after using products like this

My eyes, even though I didn't think I had an issue, felt significantly Better. Same thing with organ. If I pitched orgain as a medical nutrition product to a hundred people I'd maybe get five to ten people to use it. As a lifestyle product for those wanting like more protein, better nutrition, it's closer to a hundred out of a hundred. And I think the same thing applies here.

We're all on our screens way too long. But we all take care of, say, our oral health by brushing our teeth and flossing daily to maintain our health. So What you have, I think in T Restore, it should be something as more of a lifestyle. We need this to maintain our eye health, to lubricate our eyes and to reduce fatigue from screen time.

I think that's a really good point, Andrew, because I'm looking at your website, Ken, and of course the website isn't necessarily the first place that people will come into contact with your product, but the website sets the tone for how you talk about the product. And the website feels very medical it feels like a, you know, F U C FDA right away. It feels very sort of clinical and I think that's there there's I understand the smart reasons behind that. We see a doctor But if in fact this is a lifestyle product, if in fact I were to use this and say, Oh my God, I did have dry eye, like this is actually amazing. Which it sounds like

To Andrew's point, you want to really focus on on how this is something that everybody needs. And you know, you maybe you show tennis players and somebody jogging and You know, somebody working out. I just People doing things that they do day to day, driving. That this could enhance.

Yeah. I think that makes perfect sense. I I really appreciate the the input there. Any any other advice for how to how to frame our company and our and our products in a way That would push towards that lifestyle. I have a thought there on that, Ken, and I I think it's rather than ask your consumer base if they have dry eyes, because some do and and most actually don't know if they do.

My marketing or my approach would be Do you use a phone or laptop for more than five hours a day? And based on what you just told me. A vast majority will say yes. And then you explain how tear restores, whether it's the hyalwipe that I saw, uses hyaluronic acid and calming plant extracts to restore and soothe your eyes to keep them healthy. It's a different narrative, right? And there's nothing more precious than our vision.

What are you doing to take care of it? What's your daily routine? So I think I would change the messaging into more lifestyle rather than medical and and really focus on what we're all doing wrong, and that's screen time. Yeah. the I see that you're in Walmart. Are you in Walmart nationally or just in in certain regions? Uh three thousand stores. So so most of the Walmart.

Okay, and I'm and I'm sure you may have done a version of this already, but if not you need to be giving out those wipes, giving them out at every every opportunity you have, whether it's it's sporting events, if you can set up a booth or a tent, if you can sample them at Walmart. I don't know how how easy it is with this product, but every person that passes by gets one of those packets of Tira store. You know, like when you go on an airplane and they give you a wet wipe. Literally passing these out Бік сім'я юзи. they'll realize that this could be really

restorative or and maybe even transformational. Absolutely. I I really like the idea of of airplanes as well, um, because a lot of people after long flights with that air kind of blowing around and increasing the evaporation of the tears throughout their flight. Could really see a benefit from it. I mien imagine if that's in the first class kit of jet blue of

Delta. You know, imagine if if somebody goes to a Ted conference and that's in their gift bag or or another one of these conferences with, you know People tend to be first adopters. Yeah, I I agree with that guy. And I'd I'd also add that I think a couple of other things maybe that might help a lot, Ken, is Online, there's huge influencers in the eye health world, top optometrists, ophthalmologists. Some of them have a huge following with a large engaged audience, which is gold for you.

So people already trust these influencers with their eye health. And now Tear Restore could be a part of their regimen they use and recommend for daily use. One other thought because I really like the airplane idea. Is partnerships with companies that are in the same industry. But are non competitive. In other words

You know, find the blue light glasses company that has five hundred thousand followers. both of you are looking to protect and restore visual health, you're non-competitive, and you have a captive audience. You could do joint giveaways, you could get those wipes out there, like guys said. And I think you have to think outside of the box to gain every advantage you can to succeed. I love that idea. I mean we're we're limited on um marketing budgets and all those types of things like like most startups are. So I think setting up a collaborative marketing effort like that would be a great idea.

Sure. Can Dow Schmidt of Tear Restore. Congrats, thanks so much for calling in and um Good luck. Thank you for the opportunity.

Congrats, Ken. Thank you. By the way, um I think you'll appreciate this, Andrew, but my mom, who's seventy seven and is like amazing shape yogi and she teaches fitness classes in southern California. Every day as part of her routine she does eye exercise. She moves her eyes left and Right.

Uh. Down does this multiple times. It's great. No, I mean, I think anything that you're able to do consistently is is really important. So I I'm actually really impressed that she does that. That's awesome. Yeah. You can take her yoga class online. I'll send you the link. I don't know if I can hang, but I'll try it. It's a free class she offers every every three times a week. Is that right? Okay. Yeah, that's right. True story. My mom's listening, she'd be happy to have you on the in in the sh in the class. I'd love to join. It's awesome. So all right. I love this idea. It's really cool because it's an innovative product that I uh I don't Think there's a whole lot of competition around what he's doing.

Doesn't seem like it. We're gonna take another quick break, but stick around because when we come back, we're headed for a photo finish. Brett Schulman of Kava joins me to give advice to the founder of a studio for pet photography. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to a special mashup episode of the Advice Line right here on how I built this lab. Hey, welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. So

In the fall of last year, Red Schulman joined me to tell the story about how he and his partners built Kaba into one of the fastest growing restaurant chains in the country. And one of the ways they did that was knowing when and who to hire. And when Brett came back to join me on the advice line, we got a call from an entrepreneur who is in almost the exact same position. Trying to figure out how to grow. Hello, welcome to the show. Tell us your first and last name, where you're calling from, and just a

Yeah, I'm Adam Goldberg. I'm in Tampa, Florida. And I'm a pet photographer. I run a pet photography studio with my wife. And we help families celebrate what they love about their pets, but we also spend a lot of time taking photos of shelter animals and rescue pets trying to get them adopted as well. What's the company called? A gold photo pet photography. A gold ph Adam Goldberg, a gold photo pet photography.

Um and Adam What um what question do you have for us today? I wanna grow the business, but I'm a Jack of all trades. I do mostly everything. Uh my wife handles a lot of client communication and photo editing, but I do eighty percent of it and it's

Hard to grow. I can't clone myself easily. Um there was a dog cloned recently. Uh anyway, but Yeah, I just I wanna figure out the best way to grow that's gonna work for me and would love some advice on that. Alright, awesome. I got a bunch of questions for you and then Brett, I'm sure you'll have some too. So let me just start with Okay, so with this a pet Photo Studio. You're based in Tampa, Florida.

How are you reaching customers? I mean it's it's I I'm looking at your website right now and it's awesome photos of people with their pets and and so how do people find out about you? Mainly word of mouth? Yeah, people find out about us through Facebook advertising. We do a lot of that. But also word of mouth, we've been in business for about eight years now. But a lot of people see our work that we do with our local humane society and they see that we Help their pets get adopted, and they're like, Oh, I didn't know I could do that too. So we get a lot of social interaction on social media, too. So you take photos for the local humane society. of pets that need to be adopted. Yeah. And that's how I got started in all this. It was just a hobby that turned into a business. But that's really where my passion lies. I love that. Not to be self righteous, but both of our cats and our dog are from humane societies. Oh awesome. Uh yeah.

All right, how did you get into the uh were did you train as a photographer? Is that how you got into this? Does that work? No, so my background was in marketing. This was in two thousand and thirteen. Yeah. I worked at an animal shelter, they hired me to manage the website. Didn't know anything about photography at all.

But The website was done and they said, The website looks great, but the photos look terrible. It it doesn't add up. You know, we need to up the game of the photo. So I taught myself pet photography. A lot of up and coming pet photographers practice on their dog. And then that's it. When you work in a shelter there's

unlimited amounts of pets to practice on. So I got really good at it'cause there's More than just my dog to practice on. So working at a shelter I had unlimited amount of practice. So how did that turn into you starting this studio? Yeah, so So I took a corporate marketing job and realized it was not for me.

And just wanted to feel some fulfillment and started working at the The humane society is a volunteer. And then people said, Oh, I saw your photo of that dog. Can you take photos of my dog too? I'll pay you. So

Just snowballed. Um, and then my wife and I started taking photos of pets all over the country. We Did it for three years. raised two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for fifty different animal shelters and charities across the country. And then March of twenty twenty came and You know what happened there, right? Pandemic. So we

had to cancel everything and instead of being a you know, a nomad photographer, we decided to open a studio in August of twenty twenty instead. So we've been here about four years now. So you stopped traveling around and doing travel shoots and now you do you just have you got the studio in Tampa. People come to you. Right. Exactly. All right. Any questions that you have for him?

Yeah, Adam, uh You just mentioned that you used to do these pet fundraisers around the country and travel and obviously for Post pandemic or for lifestyle reasons, do you have a studio now? How how do you think about that previous model versus your current model and and How do you want to go forward?

Yeah, so we love that previous model. Um, but my wife and I had a son who's now two And it was just didn't seem realistic to travel, but we were also burning ourselves out, truly. We were Charging not a lot. And we would have three hundred clients in a month and then that sounds awesome. From a financial standpoint.

But then you have three hundred clients to interface with and three hundred clients to edit photos for. And it's it's just too much. So now we take maybe eight to twelve clients, but our You know, um costs are a lot higher'cause we're selling physical artwork. So I love that. I always thought about like maybe franchising or Like could I open another location in D C or San Francisco or Austin? We used to go to those cities, we have wait lists there.

So it's just time and You know, trusting someone to do it, I guess. And so you you actually print up the artwork. Like you take the photos, you you turn them into canvases and you deliver that to the client, not just like digital Yeah. So we used to do digital only, but now our clients come to us'cause they have a blank space in their home and they're Unfortunately maybe their dog's a little bit older and they wanna remember them for a long time to come. So we're helping them

We say we're A third interior. A third photographer and a third therapist'cause we talk to people about their pets. photographing them, then you're editing them, then you are actually transferring that to a k canvas and then

help delivering it to their home with a suggestion for how to hang it. Exactly. Yeah, it's very consultative. Um Versus what we used to do, which was like They would sign up online, we would never talk to them ever. Talk about full service. Yeah. It is very full service. I w don't let me forget to shout out my wife. She handles all the editing. I don't want to take uh that away from her, but yeah.

And so your your question was about You know, how how do you how do you start taking these hats off, all these multiple hats you're wearing and and hiring folks. Where where do you wanna go with it? Do you wanna open more studios? Do you see yourself expanding to other markets ultimately because I think that's gonna have a big impact on Who you hire and when you hire them. Yeah, so we've actually hired people in the past and just failed at it.

Um I'm a creative person, I am bad at managing people, or maybe I'm just bad at hiring. And I just took me away from the photography. I don't want to be a manager of people. But is there so in my head I'm like can I hire a GM or a studio manager and they hand it they handle all those people to the Mark Rober episode. That's what he does. Yeah.

And I was like, Okay, I could probably do that. I think I just haven't found the right person. And I am a control freak. I equate it to lighting. I love studio lighting. Because I can control the lighting, it's always the same. If you do

photography outside. It could be raining, it could be cloudy, it could be hot out. You can't control that. In a studio I can control all of it and I love that. So I just I just equate it to my personality. I just like being in control. So I have to figure out how to lose you know, relinquish some of that control, but also hiring the right person that I can trust to manage all these other people that Really, I need a salesperson, I need a retoucher in house, I need

um an accounting person, I need a social media person, I need you know, there's a lot of people I could Divide my time with. It's interesting listening to you. I I hear a lot of parallels to the restaurant industry. Where you often see and even with my partners or you see with great successful chefs.

They're the creative side and they have a great business partner who's on the operation side. Or the financial side. kind of the yin to their yang and it it really works well together because with my partners, we have a lot of complimentary skill sets. We're not tripping over one another or kind of overlapping into different areas. And ultimately

You can still be that control freak if you have someone that you trust deeply. that you have the confidence in on the operation side or the financial side that has that area that you're not as comfortable with or as interested in that you can count on to do it the way you would hope it would it would be done. I I have I have some thoughts on that and and I would start by saying being a control freak is very common for creative entrepreneurs and and What I think uh a lesson to take from from the Kava story is those guys found Brett and they saw in Brett somebody who has a skill set that they didn't have who could help them really

take their concept, their ideas, and scale it. And and so A couple of things. I mean the first is maybe your wife is better suited to be the operations and manag you know do the managerial stuff. But I think that there's a world where You can start Really slowly.

By thinking about bringing in an apprentice and by the way it's not that you're bad at hiring. It's some of it's it's the luck of the draw. Like you may just need to take time working with different people, but I would really strongly encourage you to find to look for people who are willing to be apprenticed and Like can you build a system where you train somebody

on how exactly you do what you do. And they're not gonna be as good as you but maybe that is a lower price point for the customer. Maybe if the customer wants Adam taking the fo the photos, it's it's like a hair salon. It's gonna be more expensive if your name's on the door than if you want another hairdresser in the salon to work on your hair. And I think you may want to think about putting a lot of your energy in building a system In which you can create a template for somebody who works with you to learn how to do what you do, because you can't scale yourself. You just can't do this. All of this on your own. Brett, what do you think?

Yeah that That's absolutely right. You know, it's okay to ha to wanna have control and care about the details and be so Focused on having Everything come out as

But You do have to understand how you start to Delegate And allow others to be an amplifier of you. I joke. I don't have very wide shoulders, so if I'm carrying the entire business on my shoulders, we wouldn't go very far.

Right. And you need to be able to lean on others and be able to trust others. that can help deliver on what your vision is. And you have to understand how to get comfortable with that. And again, I think We all have misses on hires, right? No one is perfect at hiring people. So It it is trying to understand what's the right person for the role you're trying to hire for, the right personality. And so I wouldn't get discouraged by that that it's not this unattainable hire to find, but it's

Bringing someone in ultimately that you feel the confidence and trust that you can start to delegate to because otherwise you you just simply wouldn't be able to scale the business. Yeah. The other thing I I want to point out is that You have an opportunity to go beyond art too. I mean I think that I would love to see on your website promoting this idea that people could use your services for their holiday cards, for their social media photos, not just wall art, and that you would actually provide that too. You know, we did um holiday cards this year. And we used a local you know, we didn't go through one of the big We used a local. card maker here in in the Bay Area.

And they're they're great. They were like Really nice. They weren't More expensive. Um, and I feel like that's something that you may want to think about, especially as we get closer to the fall and people start thinking about holiday cards. Another interesting thought that came to mind that we have I've seen

uh really start to sprout up here locally in the D C area are these uh social dog bars. they seem to be a really growing trend that people with pets Can especially dog, they're more dog centric, but can come. And congregate and socialize and it could be an interesting opportunity.

to be a vendor of choice or or almost like a a a pop up uh arm of that business Uh because when people are in that environment, what what better venue to take a Great action photos of their bets. Yeah, yeah. So when we were travelling our favorite

like spot to that's why we had to cancel it'cause they were all in public spaces like dog friendly breweries. But The challenge that we face is there's too many distractions at those places because there's just dogs everywhere running around. To your point, an action photo shoot for sure, but that's people love coming to the studio'cause there are no distractions. We get a lot of people whose dogs are dog reactive. And they love that we're private and we're meant just for them. We got a lot of

Families that don't have children, and there are pets of their children. So when we opened a studio people were like ecstatic. Interesting. More on the artistic side. Oh yeah, for sure. And and we're really selling an experience. We're selling like the sizzle. Like the steak is the photos. Like as a restaurantur, you you would know that, right? It's like We're selling the experience of a taking a day off from work and hanging out with your pets and capturing them till

Remember forever. Adam, I would suggest you sit down and you start to imagine where you want to be in five years and ten years. The wildest ideas, okay. I mean, we were talking to Brett earlier about Kava when he joined. None of them could imagine there were gonna be hundreds and hundreds of locations at this restaurant around the country within a decade. And they did that. I would suggest you sit down, write your five year plan, your ten year plan. It doesn't have to be what you do, but just what you imagine you could do. And then Start small.

Hire one person. If it doesn't work out, that's okay. You have to be patient, train that person up, build a system. that enables that person to take on more work, but you have you have to do it's really tedious work. But it to me, for a business like yours, it's critical. Yeah, I mean I I I'm feeling that the need to do that. And it's fun to dream sometimes, you know. Sometimes I'm like working in the business every day and I don't get the time to like

Dream a little bit. So I I appreciate the homework. A gold photo pet photography Adam Goldberg, thanks so much. Good luck. Yeah, thanks for having me. Really appreciate the opportunity.

All right. Thanks, Adam. I'm now thinking, like I I wonder if my the problem with my dog, my dog Kiki Is she a she's from a shelter, a rescue shelter. And so she was never socialized around people, so she's very sweet and kind, but when anybody comes in, a friend, a di somebody comes over for dinner, a repair person, she can't she's bark. She's really tiny. She's only ten pounds.

So she's not menacing or scary, she's just people laugh, but she just barks and barks and barks and barks and barks. She gets really freaked out. So I don't know I don't actually do in a photo studio. I don't know, guy. They they say dogs take after their owners. I know. I know. I bark at everybody who comes to my house. Get out of my house. Hey, thanks so much for listening to this special mashup edition of the Advice Line this week. And a special thanks to Fawn Weaver of Uncle Nearest Premium Whiskey, Andrew Abraham of Orgain, and of course Brett Shulman of Kava. And again, if you haven't heard their original episodes or their full episodes of Advice Line, you'll definitely want to check them out just a few scrolls back or do a quick search. and your podcast feed, we'll also put the links in the episode description below. And by the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at gyras.com.

Each week it's packed with tons of insights from entrepreneurs and my own observations and experiences interviewing some of the greatest entrepreneurs ever. And if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business, the issues, or questions you'd like help with, and hopefully. Hopefully we can help you with them, and make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com, or call us at 1-800-433-1298, and leave a message there, and we'll put all this in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by JC Howard with music composed by Ramtine Arabui. It was edited by John Isabella, our audio engineer was Cina Lafredo. Our production team also includes Alex Chung, Carla Esteves, Elaine Coates, Chris Massini, Catherine Cypher, Carrie Thompson, Sam Paulson, Devin Schwartz, and Neva Grant. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to the advice line on how I built this lab.

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