#89 - The Man Who Gamed Uber

Okay, everyone, we're gonna have uh a little bit of a special episode. Uh this first segment is twenty minutes and then after that twenty minutes is gonna be normal, but this first segment, I found this guy a couple of years ago who runs this service that Frankly, I thought is kind of a scam. And We Sean and I debated. Our friend Andrew was like, Hey, you shouldn't have scammers on there. And I kind of agree with him, but this guy's story is incredibly fascinating. And

I don't wanna tell you too much about it, just listen to it. But we found this guy in India and he talked to us at midnight his time in India. And Frankly, I'm inspired by this guy. And I don't know if I agree with him or disagree with him. But I completely

Love the hustle and I think that you guys should just give this a listen because it's super fascinating. Um, let us know what you think. Tweet at me, thus Sam Par. Uh tweet at Sean. Uh I don't actually know Sean's handle, but Sir Sean Perry.

S H A A N space P U R I And let us know what you think. Yeah, what's up? What's going on? We got a guest here with us, Sam. Uh Ubi Shake is here. How are you doing, man? I'm great, I'm great. I'm doing good.

So we've been talking about um something you built. We've mentioned it on the last couple of episodes. But I'm glad you're here. So you can you can tell people about what you've built and what it what it does and we can debate a little bit about it. So uh you give us the One minute version of What it is that you built. So

Uh Uh we are using a refell system. To give customers the credits which they can use to their rights. Or there eat orders.

Now now that e third is also available. So that they c they'll get discount on there. Every order. Like Up to that fifty percent.

Up the order. out of value. Okay, so About Two years ago.

Or three years ago, I forget when you started. I got an email from a friend of mine who knows everything. He follows all the latest Interesting stuff and he loves like hackers. And

He goes. There's this guy you're in India, right? Yes, right. He said there's this guy in India And I don't know how it works, but somehow he's accumulated

hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars of Uber Credits. And you can buy credits from him. and ultimately get Uber rides for half off. So you know how Uber Ride Uber gives people

Um ten dollars off their first ride and gives the referral person another ten dollars in credit. This guy somehow accumulated massive amounts of ten dollar credits and you could buy his ten dollar credits for five dollars. Now The thing that Sean and I debated was like

Is this ethical? Is this wrong? Is this right? Who knows? And I don't I think Sean was like I think it's fine. But regardless, I think it's incredibly interesting. Because And I want you maybe you could explain how this works, but from my perspective, it seems like you've got a

crew of like hundreds or thousands of People Taking rides and your Either you're buy are you buying their credits from them? What are you doing? Explain explain how it works. Uh it's a basic arbitrage.

In India, yeah, arbitrage. In in the US they used to give like ten dollar, twenty dollar FL value. In India they used to give hundred rupees, two hundred rupees, three hundred rupees. in the face and In India, one right cost. It starts from fifty rupees also. Fifty rupees are twenty five rupees.

If you convert it to dollars, it will be like thirty cents, forty cents, fifty cents, max. So we are taking ride. Using that fifty cents and in turn Uber is giving us ten dollars. In US. So the US US account is the re is the referrer.

So I refer uh Indian rider. Indian rider takes a thirty cent ride. And I get a ten dollar credit because I'm a US customer and I get US credit rates. That's the idea. Yeah. And so for listeners, a hundred a hundred rubies equals one point four dollars. Right. Right. But that doesn't mat

That's the easy part, Sean. The hard part is how are you getting all of these credits? Yeah, who are your writers No, initially I was not planning for this. I started a blog just to promote the Uber service. When they came In India about six years ago. They launched in India.

And I was just curious how it's working, how it's not working. So I was sharing among our friends and at the time they were giving around ten dollars in Indian value, about six hundred rupees they were giving. But my ride cost was around a hundred to the hundred. One fifty rupees. From my flat to office.

Right. So I was using for to use that uh money for myself, I started offering others. Then I started accumulating more value, more release like six thousand rupees, ten thousand, twenty thousand, then I was not able to use all the credits for myself. Right.

And it and you're doing this just by giving your link to your friends. Yeah, I s I started with with my friends. Then I started a blog. And blog got little popular. And because nobody was sharing that thing that Thing was totally new.

So it was popular. And For blogging, I started blogging like a few years back. What um ten years back. So all the learning I how to make do SEO and other things, how to make it popular a blog.

I use those skills to make it popular to make this overthink popular and Started getting referrals. Then I initially I was not selling to anyone. I but I asked uh my friends to give me their FL code so that I can give

Yeah, credits them for free because I was not able to use all the credits for myself. So everybody was giving uh getting credits. And in like hundreds of Right. They're getting it.

Like kind of They quickly in moving quickly, they did they just they translated the ten dollars worth of credits to India, even though the rides were ten times cheaper. And so that was the initial reason you were able to stack up so many credits. But yeah, it was very high value. When did you start selling the credits or when did you start making this a service? Uh

When like my all the all of my friends got credits, they were not able to use themselves and Uber started banning their account because Uber was thinking like they are getting credits like But some Week or something. So I was not able to fill their accounts also. So I was having extra credit. So I asked on my blog also if somebody wants this. Then they can pay me like some twenty rupees, thirty rupees also. Like minus then small thing because it was for me for free.

It was coming for to me for free. So they started coming to me, then I started selling for just small thirty cents, forty cents. Then slowly I kept increasing my rate because there were more People asking me those edits. Then suddenly in India they reduce that refere value to The minimum to like fifty rupees.

So I was selling for fifty rupees and they were getting only for fifty rupees, so nobody was buying in India. Then I started exploring who can buy Then I I found out that. This referral works across countries.

Uh like all over the world. So I'm not sure. Do you remember the day you do you remember the day you realized that? Like was it just you're sitting in your boxers that night and you're looking at it, you're like Holy shit, this actually I can I can get ten US dollars for this. I don't remember. Yeah, six years back.

Yeah. I one of my friend was also Working with this and there is another Provider Ola, yeah. So you got

Selling for that also, Ola Ola also and my friend was mostly into Ola and I was in Uber. So we're not competing with each other, just we are helping each other to promote this. So he also w he was also searching for Some users, buyers in the US, but Ola is not available in the US. But it's available.

So he suggested me few friends, like few customers, and I from my blog also a few people came. Sorry, sorry, I got So how how do you actually sell the credits? So your account has credits. How are you actually Uh transferring those to the buyer. I'm I don't have any credits.

For me. You get the referral you get the referral code from the person and you you earn them credit. Yes, yes. Just say it's your account. If you give me your code, I will Be on behalf of you, I'll refer some some people. And they'll take Raira, they'll take Uber.

Like But are you still doing it? Okay, so first of all, how much traffic was your blog getting? And did you d I guess did you rank for like India Uber sign up referral. Yeah, it was coming one first position and second position, I guess, for that keyword.

And how many people a day come to your site? Or were at the peak. Uh not many, I guess. Put a thousand people max. Okay. So you were getting these referral credits initially from your friends, but at some point you must have run out of new friends to to bring to Uber. So at what point did you find uh New way to get

R writers in India. How did you do that? Uh once I was getting constant But like for others. Then I was Ask I asked my friends like other bloggers.

How they do it. Then there is a Like in Facebook groups are there. So few people who were also they're having similar idea of

Like As me. They're also selling the I Like to them and explore like how they are doing, how they're doing.

Then I said okay, I'll give you some money if you Just manage it. with with among your friends, among your Blog, Sam on your Facebook groups.

Oh, he's got a bunch of kids who will ride Uber rides all day. Like you know, you go to a school and you say, Hey Hey kid, you're you know, twelve year old kid, go ride this for one mile. Please, thank you very much. Here's here's fifty rupees. Is that what was happening or it really was just thoughts.'Cause I I you could see the pick I you guys listening, I I bought this and a bunch of my friends did. And what happens is you get ten dollar credits.

And by the way, and I talked to you I talked to you about this. When you log into your site, it's super sketchy be or it seems like that because English isn't your native language. And so it was You know, it was clear that like you were I didn't buy because I got scared. I was like, Yeah, what the hell this is. I was like and it's clear this guy like is tr he's trying to appe and and so it looks quite sketchy. And I told you this. But When you and I did it and it worked.

It worked wonderfully and I did it because I talked to you. But when you sign up, I see all these kids, like they seem like young boys. Like pop up and I'm like Yeah, I'm like this guy is is going to a high school or something, he's getting these kids to take rides. I I have two people who work for me kind of. And they manage those kids. Thank you

They they've signed up many accounts. From there, because in India Uber doesn't require credit cards. In evil they require. So India you just need to have a number to create an account. So few people they create account. So that other people other kids they take right. And you get the fair bonus.

I see. So you just need a phone number. A ne a new phone number. Hey, it's a new writer. Yeah, it's new number is available and there are Several websites they sell just number. In number you need just OTP. Just enter the number, you'll get your T Pen account is created. Then take a ride and Rafel is available. So were you so it was in fact like hand to hand combat kids, like you were getting people to sign up. It wasn't from the blog.

Initially it was from blog, then Yeah. To compete with the others and others. Other people were there who were also selling so The business that you need you have more supply or demand? So did you have more rides or more buyers? Depends when time to time because Uber keeps changing their policy and sometimes it uh it stops everything. Doesn't work. Then

Yeah, buyers are there but no supplies there. Right. And then start supplies available but no buyers So has Uber did Uber ever contact you? Did they ever say, Hey, what the hell's going on? Uh no, I Uber didn't count it. I counted Uber initially. I tweeted them like if you give me a hundred rupees per refle I I'll give you so many accounts. So that you can show those number of accounts to someone like to get funding or something like that.

But that never replied to me. Then I was not able to use myself. So started selling. No option was there. Otherwise I was if going to sell to them only like Okay, give me some money, I'll market for you. That's it. So it is you you're you're forgetting a major part or you're not forgetting, you haven't mentioned a major part of this in This is a huge thing that I I it was a red flag to meet it, but I still did it was a You offer a discount if you pay with Bitcoin.

And B You have to change if you're in America, you which I imagine a lot of your customers are, you have to change Your account. Two

Where was it? What's the coat? Maldives. Yeah. So

Yeah, if you're in America you have to change you gotta change your account to say that you are in the Maldives. Not because I I don't know why. I don't know why you I'll explain I those were some Uh tricks you can say. Work around. In US they were they were in the US also they were reducing repel value. Initially it was twenty dollars, then ten dollars, then five dollars.

Then when it came to five dollar, nobody was buying from us. So we're looking for how can how we can increase it. So we Like Somehow we like luckily we found like if you change country

your after value will go to ten dollar. Maybe ten dollars de set default value in the Uber system. Like if there is no country said, it will be set to def like ten dollars. So you pick some obscure country. And you just get the ten bucks as your default. Yeah, some somewhere where Uber is not running. So initially we tried Cylinder. But After that they are like Uber is operating in S Lanka also the in S Lanka refuge is

set to Sankan value, like some hundred rupees or something, S value. Then we found Maldives and then any other country you can set. Where Uber is not there, Uber's not operating. Then it was setting default value to ten dollars. But ten dollars was This good value.

For e everyone to buy, so they were buying. I'm I'm giddy talking about this. Sam smiling like I've never seen him smile before. I'll tell you why I'm giddy about this, but first, um Uh is it uh I wanna make sure I say your name correctly, sorry. Uh Abishik. Yes, today. I I'm giddy about this because I don't

I don't know if I agree with the ethics of it. I I I don't know. I I I'll uh but I what I think is amazing is how hard you hustled to do something and I think that people like you Who come up with these Intricate

Even it even let I and I'm not saying I feel this way, but let's say that a listener says this is a scam and you're a scam. But even the balls that it took to do this And the operation that you built around this, I find incredibly fascinating. And I think the people who build amazing things often start out this way. And I think that I just think that you're

Frankly inspiring. I think it's amazing. H hundred percent. I think we had we had Greg on yesterday and I think he was talking about like One of his earliest businesses was he I think it was Greg, he sold a box of air. on eBay. And people just found it funny, so they bought the box of air on eBay, thousand it's like Learning how to

Um learning how to connect the dots, learning how to make money on the internet, learning how to tap into people's um, you know, psychology and give them what they want. Um, you know, those are sort of core underlying business skills. And so, you know, the very first thing you said was this is a basic arbitrage. This could have been with Uber credits, it could have been with airline miles, it could have been with any any system that's out there. If you discover a price discrepancy or a

I sort of um A loophole in the way that the system is set up. You know, that that's a that's an opportunity that that you can take advantage of. Now Some people will say Hey, this isn't right. So you know, I my brain goes down this checklist. First I say

Is this morally or ethically wrong to me and you know is anybody being harmed by this From my understanding, nobody's being harmed by this. Was that correct, or is that uh you know, are you sort of exploiting these high school kids and then sending them on rides to the mountains and then they have to walk back or something? No, no, no. They're getting pocket pocket money and a pocket expense. Right.

And then the second thing is like, is this illegal? No, this is not illegal. Is this against the terms of service of Uber? Maybe, but it's on them to sort of enforce that if they're gonna if they're gonna allow this. Sounds like you literally reached out to them. You started this with a pure intent, which was to promote the Uber service, right? If I take you at face value. Um then I then I I I see nothing wrong with this myself personally, but we'll let other people be the judge. I think I'm on board with this. I think I'm on board with this. I just think that Because you're not a native English speaker, the site admittedly didn't come across wonderfully.

But it it's crazy. And I try to help you with it. I think I told you, right? I go, Hey man, your site looks like you're not using the right words. And I and I even rewrote something for him. Yes, yes, yes. I keep try I keep updating it, but yeah, obviously. So what are you doing now? You said that this is gonna end soon or something like that. Uh what makes you say that and then what's next? No, Uber keeps changing their policy. Like two days back they said like now referral

Rumber ride referral is stopped totally. Oh no, well. June twenty ninth. So it's start. No we I need to look for some

I'm basically a software engineer, so I'll find some other things to do. Uh did you uh how how old are you? I'm thirty five. Did you um how much does your apartment cost to rent a month? And US dollars. Do you know in US dollars?

Yeah. I think Yeah. Yeah, something three hundred. And it will in in your service. How much?

Three hundred fifty US dollars and you at your peak were doing twenty twenty K a month. Yeah, it was revenue, not the all the profits. But was it fifty percent profit, yeah. So you're doing um ballpark uh twenty K a year. Fi fifty times your monthly rent. Right, got that right.

Uh Anyway, a lot. I I don't know if I did that math right. But anyway, um Why Did you grow up poor?

Um Well yeah, kind of, lower middle class. And do you consider what do you what do you now? It's still the same, not I'm not expending any much. I I don't have a car, I don't apart, like it's rented apartment. You're you're wearing an Apple watch, I think. You y your your apartment looks pretty cool, you know. I I would say you're doing all right.

You just fascinate me, man. I I would wonder are you Are you gonna do I'm not I would call this illegitimate what you did because it is a uh I I don't think it's wrong, but it is like a short term. Fight.

Are you gonna build something Why don't you build something um That's huge. Like something that can last because you're you're pretty Yeah.

Fucking awesome. Yeah, d d what when you think about what's next for you, do you think you'll try to f do something similar or do you think you'll try to do something that's different in some way, like Um, you know, your own service, a different uh you know, something that has more enduring long term value. Yeah, definitely different from this because yeah, in this field

It's keep getting like it's depending on someone else. Business. If they're not doing good, I'm not doing good. It's depending on something that so Something with less platform risk. Okay. All right. So Abish, here's what I want you to do, man. Uh, we're gonna wrap this one up, but I want you to keep in touch with me and Sam. Let us know what you get working on next. We'd love to support you and help you, you know, help make that whatever that next thing is successful. And my hope is that you come back on in six months or a year and you say Hey, remember me? I'm the Uber Uber Pro guy. Okay, here's what I did next, and it's even bigger and badder than what you've already done.

And uh the website is uberpro dot in, right? Yeah, right. Okay. Great. Uber Pro. Yeah. Yeah.

Like that, it's like yeah, it's came side due to the dot I. It should be dot com, then it'll this thing like it's Right. It it looks a lot better. I just went to the website right now. It looks a lot better. Your your your translation has gotten significantly better. It it looks great. It just uh You're a fascinating guy, man. You're cool. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for telling your story.

Okay, thanks. Yeah. Have a good day. Thank you. All right. We gotta say goodnight. It's midnight over there. We gotta say goodnight, yeah. Good night, sweet drinks. Dude, you're awesome. I appreciate you coming.

Thank you. All right. Alright, that guy's crazy. I love him. Yeah. Such a such a great little story. I just enjoy hearing those. Uh anytime I hear something like that, I love it.

I have a feeling that little segment is gonna be very, very popular. I would love to hear what people think. I think that that was fascinating. Uh people can't see me, but I am smiling a lot. Yeah, it's like Sam's wedding day over there. You just need to send in a photographer. He's ready to go. All right, what else what else do you want to talk about today? Hold on. I wanna wrap this up. This guy, I here's why this is fascinating to me. This guy I love these guys who come from nothing and just do all types of crazy stuff to like build cool, interesting stuff, even if it is maybe unethical. I'm like I'm gushing over this guy. I love these types of people. Um

Okay, you wanna move on? Yeah. Okay, uh first thing I want to talk about. People fleeing cities. Um, I posted about this in the trends group. I post about this on Twitter. I've gotten roughly two to three hundred replies. I put my third B Day notice in.

To my apartment. And I'm located in San Francisco. Um people Uh a report was released for June numbers. Uh, San Francisco's rent is down another eleven percent.

Um, Sean, do you think that cities are going to change Or like m some of the major expensive cities, so New York. San Francisco. I don't know what else. Do you think that they're gonna change forever?

Um Forever's a long time. It's hard to say. Uh but I would say that like You you sort of have to ask, okay, what would get it to return to uh bigger and batter heights than it was. And

I think what was driving the San Francisco value sort of originally was the like kind of culture and the like, you know, the eclectic mix of people that lived in San Francisco. This was like in the sort of early days of San Francisco. That went away as the core reason people came to the city. And then it got replaced with tech.

And It's pretty clear that the tech movement has migrated away from Silicon Valley not just'cause cor coronavirus but in general Um you know, cost of living getting higher and higher and higher.

As well as just winners coming out of Sweden and Israel and other places, it became clear like look, you don't have to be um based out of S Silicon Valley to A raise money or B be successful. New York has had winners, LA has had winners. And uh you know, a bunch of European countries have had winners. Uh at Lassian and Australia, you know, Canva in Australia.

So I think already that was happening. And then this was just a turbo. This was an amplifier. So no, I don't think that. San Francisco, for example, is gonna be the hub. For um is going to be a bigger hub than it was in the past, you know, a few years. I think it'll still probably be the biggest tech hub there is. It's just it will be smaller in size. Some of its weight will have gotten distributed out to Austin and New York and LA and other places that um are benefiting from this.

I believe that the numbers are being under reported at the moment and I it's strictly What's it what's it called, uh when you just hear stories anecdotal. Yeah. Um Because I posted in this group and I had James Alter replied and he goes, Half my building's uh vacant.

Another person said uh Two thirds of my thing is bacon. When I try to book a moving company Um They're packed.

They they're they're packed. Were you the one who posted like um You called a moving company about moves from California to Florida. Was that you or was that someone else? Not me. I think it was d either Dave Grossblatt or or you or I forgot who it was. Uh maybe it was my friend Kamar. Somebody posted they had talked to somebody about um they talked to a moving company about

moving from I moves from California to Florida. And you know, normal volume was let's say 50 in a month, and now they're doing five hundred a month and they can't keep up with it, and they're turning people away because they just can't handle as many moves. uh uh that are migrating, you know, to to greener pastures. And so You know, these are this leading signals that you see. And it makes sense. Like

I I myself moved out of the city. I I know tons of people that are either Already moved, considering moving or d uh or not planning on planting roots in the same way that they were six months ago, which is kinda wild because that's a very short amount of time for such a big migration. Yeah, it's pretty nice. So let's talk let me talk about a few opportunities there are which is first of all

Uh when I'm moving, I'm con I'm now I'm trying to figure out my tax situation, which state do I Um, am I gonna call home? Um, and I gotta I have to, it's all about your intent. And there's a bunch of things that you can do. For example, getting a mailbox in a different state. So virtual mailboxes are are kind of intriguing to me at the moment. The second thing is you have to declare to the state of California or whatever state you're leaving that you are no longer a resident. And there's a ton of manual

things you have to do like contacting the DMV Um There's a few more things, whatever. Uh And that's pretty interesting. I'm and I'm and I'm curious what's gonna happen with that. Um, did I show you this uh the founder of Ship? Is it? Uh shipped.

It's a uh it's that thing that sold to Target for five hundred thou million dollars. It was like a um I'm not familiar. Okay, so The it's called S H. IP T

Um so it was basically like Instacart, but for the south. Bill Smith. He sold it for four or five Hundred million dollars, huge win. Um

And he has a new company. Let me It's called um landing. And what landing does is they have a network of apartments across the country, and they're all pretty similar, and you pay a fee and you get access to all the apartments. And so if you go to their website now, you can go to um Landing.

Yeah, landing. So if you type in. Let's see. I typed in Uh hello landing. Hello Landing dot com

Okay. So you go it's pretty fascinating. It's super interesting. So they're clearly appealing to these twenty, thirty year old young people. who have a little bit of money. Um you can sign up. They've got thirteen major cities. You pay two hundred dollars for your yearly membership and then you select a variety of Burnished apartments.

And then you get like a slight discount on uh staying there for a month at a time. So for example, they have a three thousand dollar two bedroom apartment that's available July second in Austin. And then you could spend uh a little bit more money and go to Uh DC, things like that.

Super interesting. Yeah, this is cool. So this is basically corporate housing because you're getting furnished turnkey apartments. But it's without the corporate. It's like They just put the power in the hand of the individual who may or may not be doing this as part of a cor corporate relocation. They might just this might just be a lifestyle relocation like you're you're doing right now. So you're gonna use this.

Well, I at the moment because of Corona, I don't want to be in an apartment. I only want to be in a home. A house? Yeah. Or an apartment with a private entrance. But like you can rent a place in LA, a one bedroom, for twenty five hundred dollars a month right now on this website, and it's all furnished. Um

Very fascinating. Now there's a lot of holes in this model. But This is something that is very attractive to me and very interesting. And Saunder is kinda similar, right? Yeah, but they're not doing so hot because they were

corporate travel and uh there's rumors I think they've laid off a ton of people there's rumors that they're gonna go out of business. Yeah. That's crazy. And then there's another one called Guild. started by a friend of mine, um, maybe the Guild or Guild. And they do the same thing, but it's also for corporate travel. Whereas this is more so for nomadicky type of people.

Right. Very fascinating. What do you think about those? Yeah, I I like the idea. I think it's kind of one of those ideas that's either gonna seem obvious in retrospect, uh, or you never hear about it again. Um so so I so I think that It makes sense that more people are gonna be doing this. The question is Is it enough? I like the membership model, right? Like I think that's kind of a core difference from

You know, okay, well, I'm if I'm gonna move, I'll just go and do my search, whatever, but like once I'm in this network. then I'm just gonna keep picking apartments in this network. But And I you know, I think you're trying to move like whatever every month. Most people are probably not trying to do that. I'm not gonna do that for a long time. Right. So I so I think you know the question is like what is the like length of stay and are they

Are they pricing these above what it would be? If I did a year long lease. And they're making more off it per month? Due to the flexibility. Okay, I could believe that. But then it's you know

It's it's questionable if the economics are gonna work, right? Because you're gonna have vacancies where You know, there's gaps renting. And have you you know Do the economics work based on how many people are trying to do this at all times. Yeah, it's one of those It's one of those situations unlike

Airbnb where Airbnb, they don't pay to lease all the places. So when demand goes down, sure, their revenue goes down, but their cost basis. also goes down. Whereas for these guys, their costs are gonna be fixed essentially because they're gonna be locked into all these leases. So they can't withstand Kind of a normal

demand fluctuations that other that uh uh Airbnb type site could do. Yeah. Uh I I'm interested. Uh I agree with everything you've said. We'll see.

What do you got? Okay, let me tell you about some things that I found. kind of interesting. So you wanted to talk a little bit about levels and we've mentioned it before. Um tell me what's interesting about levels. So levels for for those who Are either new or you don't remember.

At one point in time me and Sam did this one month weight loss challenge where we installed a continuous glucose monitor on our arm. And it measure, you know, how is your glucose spiking based on what you eat? And the way this challenge was organized uh by this guy Justin Mayers. was

If your glucose level stays below a certain level, meaning you're not eating sugary carb foods. Um he will ri essentially return a deposit. We made a deposit of like eight eight hundred dollars at the beginning of the month. Every day that we Ain't right, he would send Venma West money back.

And it was a cool idea. It was a fun challenge. Wasn't super well run. But it was also both of us walked away being like yeah, well, this is the future. I'm gonna have a device implanted on my body that tell me. how my body's doing in real time. Um And so levels is a

company that's trying to productize that. So what did you find interesting here? What why'd you put levels back on? Yeah, uh this app is not in the app store. It's uh Oh, test flight. Yeah, it's in test flight. Uh levelshealth dot com.

So the the background here is Uh so people who have diabetes have Either have to prick themselves every certain amount of time, hours or days, I don't know.

Um and test their blood. Glucose. And there are there's a company. It's uh it's like the huge health company, I forget what it's called. Um probably Pritzker does it. I mean whatever the the the huge h conglomerates are. They have this machine called a Freestyle Libre. Abbott.

That's the one. It's a huge conglomerate just a big thing. And It's this thing that you put into your arm. And it tracks your blood glucose like with a thirty second delay. And for two weeks.

For two weeks. And if you have diabetes, people use this all the time. Now, the problem is, is if you're just a nerd like me and you just want to test this and you don't have diabetes, you actually have to get a doctor's prescription. You can't buy this. I don't know why that's the case. I Maybe there's some great rule behind it. I'm not educated on it. But what Lovels is trying to do is to clarify, I think you can buy it. You just aren't subsidized by insurance, so it's more expensive, right? But maybe you can buy it from one of those like

penis enlargement pills websites or like something like that. But I I don't think that you can go on to Abbott.com and buy it or freestyle Libre.com or rev libre.com and buy. I I d I'm almost positive you can. And I don't know why it's so hard, but it is. And so what Levels is doing is they're doing two things. One, they're giving you an app That you can make it easy to track your levels, your blood levels, and they're trying to eventually create the hardware for it.

And I think this is just incredibly fascinating. Um I I I'm I I think these guys are raising money now and I think it might be something to bet on. I don't know yet though, but it's really cool. So

It reminds me of like if you had just told me the idea, I would have been like, Oh my God, I gotta invest in this. After doing it for two weeks Uh first of all. At the time, now maybe it was just early on, their app kind of sucked. It wasn't like the the normal the out of the box freestyle Libre app was just better to use.

Oh. First you had to use it because that's how the scanner works. And so this was like first scan it in this app and then open the levels app to like See it in a prettier chart. Um and I didn't find it prettier nor useful at all.

Um I think the dream for them is it's a great visualization. It gives you tips as you go. And you do your food tracking, your meal logging in it, but the meal logging was super clunky when we used it, so I never logged my meals in it because I was like, this is too cumbersome. Um So I was unimpressed by the actual thing at the time, but I think this idea is amazing.

I think that it's gonna have really high retention for the people that uh opt into this lifestyle. And um and so I'm I'm a believer in the In the concept behind this business, I would build a business like this myself. I'm like that much of a believer in it. Um, and it also reminds me like there's a a company that just sold for five hundred million yesterday, I think, called Mirror. Um

Did you see this? You are you familiar with Mirror? So it's a very It's just thing you put on your wall. It's an actual mirror. That's sort of like a home gym that you plant on the wall. And um, there's two of these that are out there that I know of. Tonal is one and mirror is the other. So mirror got bought by Lulu Lemon yesterday for$500 million. And you know, on the surface is like one of those really hard businesses. It's like

Hardware New behavior for customers. Really expensive. Um And so you could see all these different ways that it was gonna fail.

And this uh this female founder who who did it and the VCs who backed it, it paid off. Uh and it got bought by Lulu Lemon for a really great exit. And I think that something like levels has the potential to be that. If they can build the really Awesome consumer. Uh kind of like

the health conscious consumer what they want that's more than a Fitbit, that's more than an Apple Watch. Um it's actually tracking their glucose levels. I think they could end up getting bought right back by a company like Abbott. Or um by one of the the sort of big, you know, either health or fitness companies that are out there. So I think it's a good bet as a business. I wasn't in love with the product. I agree on everything you said. I think

Yeah. The problem it's solving is twofold for me. The first thing is Nutritional information and calorie information on a lot of packaged foods and normal foods. Do you realize how wildly inaccurate that is? Like it could be like twenty or thirty percent off. Like it's it's pretty off. Like if you go um

I remember uh Casey Nice did this thing where he took a Big Mac. He took like five different Big Macs, and he's like, All right, it says on the package. Um that this is how much calories is in it. And then he actually, you know, a calorie is uh One calorie is the amount of energy it takes to heat up, I believe a gram of water one Celsius. Uh and temperature.

Yep. And he ac so they like did that test and like oh wow, these are off by like ten or twenty percent. And It was pretty interesting. I think that that's an interesting thing to look into. I also think that

carbohydrates and protein and and your different macros and nutrition nutrient information, it uh impacts people differently. Like And I think that that's interesting to see what fits you best. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, and I I think in general, anytime you can take something that has a really long feedback loop and give people an immediate feedback loop. That's a that's the foundation of a great product. Like that's if that's the only thing your product did. You can win. And that's what this does. It gives you a really fast feedback loop on how what you eat affects your body. And I think that's both really important.

And I think it'll be really compelling if it can get productised. Now maybe these guys will do it or maybe they'll make thirty percent of the way progress, but like to me, this is inevitable. This there will be a company like this. It will be Uber successful. This will be very normal for people to have on their body at all times. in some form factor, whether it's a patch on your arm or it's a you know, a ring or a watch or something like that. But and I think specifically

The glucose monitoring. Um to me is more interesting than sleep tracking, step counting. You know, temperature, you know, all that. other stuff that's that's potential like for you to track because it's related to eating. And if you can affect the way that people eat,

Uh, you can change their whole life. Men. Um, what do you got? So here's one thing that I found interesting. Uh Alt Data. So what is Alt Data?

So there's this market that I didn't really know existed, but it made sense when I heard it. Um, which is alternative data that people buy. So the alt data market is like two to three billion a year right now.

And what this means is let's say you're a a trader, you're on Wall Street or you're a hedge fund manager. Um You are constantly looking for an edge. You're looking for alpha, as they say. So how do you have an edge on the market so that you can get better returns than the average, right? Because you're charging fees to your customer to manage their money. So you have to beat the sort of passive indexing that they could just get by being in the market as a whole.

So um turns out there's a huge market for alt data and where people are buying, you know, one of the following. It could be Satellite imagery. So for example You can look at crop yields in different countries and you can know how the commodity prices are going to be affected and how that affects Starbucks, because they require these beans over here.

You can look at um mobility data. So that's what's happening right now for people who are betting on the economy to recover. So Google and Apple have these charts that show how much people are using Google Maps. Which shows how much they're moving around right now. And that's a key indicator of like commerce activity.

So a lot of the people who bet on the who are betting on the economy, they're trying to figure out, all right, are we about to go into shelter in place two point oh? Or are people getting out and about and the economy's about to recover? It's really financially important to know that. So they're buying mobility data. They're buying You know, other sources of data which is like Robinhood, their c one of their core business models is

They sell the I forget what it's called, like flow data or whatever. Basically they they sell the transaction data. of what people are trying to buy on Robinhood to these quant funds. Who will then front run the market in many ways. They'll they'll see that okay, a bunch of retail traders are going to going to buy Tesla.

Cool. Let's go buy Tesla faster than they can and we'll get the uplift of this retail traffic that's coming in. So there's all these different alt data sources. And I just thought this was a really interesting business to do one of two things. Either A You could build a Alt data market. Where a marketplace where basically people could

Put their source of data. And uh buyers could come and browse the different satellite providers, the different uh mobility providers, like who whatever. And you can sort of pitch what your thing does. And they could pay to get in contact with you to vet your stuff and then there could be a reputation market around it. The other thing that I thought was interesting was just what other alt data sources

could exist that you could bring to market and monetize in a way that's not being monetized yet. So I think some of this is new, right? Like Cell phones unlocked a whole bunch of passive data sources that uh passive data that that didn't exist before because now you have Everybody with a GPS and a microphone and and other You know, tools on them.

So I'm curious what other alt data sources might exist. uh that could could tip people off to to make better financial decisions or you know, at least for for Wall Street,'cause that's where the big bucks are. That's pretty interesting. And so Sometimes at the hustle people Like

Crazy people will email me and they're like, Oh, you're selling my data. And I'm like, uh, I I'm not selling your data because I literally don't even know how to do that. Ha ha Like I'm like, I would. Well, like I'm like maybe be like is selling data selling data inherently isn't wrong. I mean like someone on your email list, is that what you mean? Well, they'll think they'll get like spam and they'll think that somehow I sold their email address, which not even a chance. Uh never did that. Um

Which I know how to do that. I know how to sell an email list. But I don't know how to like sell insights or data. I mean I I don't even know Who would buy it? I don't even know if it's valuable. I know nothing. Right. Um But

That's in that's cool. That's a cool idea. Like a great one is second measure, which basically takes credit card data. And so people know, okay, DoorDash is beating Uber Eats because they can look at the the second measure data and they can see know who's doing more credit card transactions out of those those different companies. So VCs are using this. You know, for example, I think one that would be awesome that's not public is Cloud usage. So Whose AWS bills are going up? And if you somehow knew who's who's

whose web traffic is going up or whose bandwidth is going up or whose consumption is going up on on AWS. I think that would be a really interesting signal to use to invest in companies or sectors as a whole. So I'm I'm just trying to think of what are some different alt data sources. And I don't have a ton, but yeah, but but I think that this is interesting and and the way these are used are different. Like you s you told me your dad's into like Kind of Produce

farming market sort of. Yeah, and they do. And he's um he's got like a a a a a me a small medium sized business. And so they're not using significant data, but they definitely use the weather and they use some futures and things like that. But yeah. And so I think that there's a lot that's in agriculture where people are selling um Uh whether specific weather data, like more specific than the sort of general weather data, and um and also just general yield data that's that they have across uh the agricultural market. For for uh for uh individuals in the in that in that space. And so I think that's kind of interesting too. So I'm curious. I I know that

In for example in sports there's synergy sports which measures all the court movement of basketball players uh on the court. Now this is a I think it's available or it's bought by every single NBA team. 'Cause no NBA team can just afford to like not have the data when the other twenty nine teams are doing it.

And so these guys literally just by installing cameras on the backboard in all 30 arenas They now have something that's proprietary that they can sell for millions of dollars to NBA teams just to say, Hey, here's here's a data set that you can go and hopefully make better scouting decisions or game plan decisions based off of. I'm looking at this now. This is crazy. Synergy sports. Yeah. This is awesome. It's owned by a company called

An atrium sports company. What is atrium sports? I have no idea. That's amazing. I never ever would have thought it looks like it might be a public company. I never would have thought that this was a thing. And I love simple ideas like that where you know it's not rocket science. I think they get exclusive partnerships and also the teams don't want multiple cameras to be installed in their space or whatever. And so and then they have like tremendous pricing power over the teams uh once they have the data. And so I and and the the richer their data set, like the longer they're installed.

The worst the switching costs are if they ever want to use another provider, right? Because Okay, we could use this other provider, but then we lose the last 10 years of historical data. We might use to find patterns or make better decisions. And so I think a company like Synergy Sports is a simple company that's very well positioned. uh in this market. So Synergy Sports was either owned or co owned by Mark Cuban and he sold it.

And the company sold it to uh HM sports for ninety million dollars. Interesting. I think it's worth a lot more now because this is sort of a more recent trend. Um okay. Another thing to follow up on that sort of Sports related. So we had talked about

Jack's idea of a of a a baseball card sort of Fort Knox. And uh, you know, a place to store and trade baseball cars without ever having to move hands. And then a whole bunch of people reached out after the podcast, which is great. Love it when they do that. To be like, hey, you ever heard of free ports? And I was like, Well no.

Never heard of that. Shit. What is it? And basically what free ports are Uh, this is my like very brief Googling afterwards, but I was like oh I should I should mention this. I should close the loop on this. So a free port is um is an art storage warehouse. So they so basically people do this for art. So it does two core things.

You buy a piece of art. It gets stored in a free port. And um this hand they handle like sort of the whole storage process. So your art doesn't get damaged, doesn't get stolen. It's like, you know, state of the art security, that sort of thing. But the main benefit, the reason people do this is because Art can't be when you buy a painting for eighty million dollars, which people do.

uh believe it or not, they you have to pay sales tax. You have to buy you have to pay tax on that on that purchase. And so that could be, you know, four or five million bucks. And so how do you avoid paying that tax? Well You only owe tax once it's landed in your destination.

So a free port is considered to be in transit for an indefinite amount of time. Um so so what they do is you buy a piece of art, it goes to the freeport, it's in transit for Twenty, thirty years. So it's a way to preserve wealth. uh across like decades and not have to pay the tax until you sort of want the tax to be due. And then you could actually just sell it to somebody else who will keep it in the free report. And then you sort of move on without ever having to like use the art as uh like get the art out.

And so I thought this was really interesting. I had never heard about this. Um I bet there's either software you could build around this or marketplaces for these or Uh, you know, some kind of you know, um sharing economy version of free ports. Like I don't know enough about it, but it definitely made my ears perk up. And if somebody out there wants to go do a bunch of research on free ports, I would love

Free to come in our Facebook group and post what you found because I think this is very interesting. Okay, so uh I'm looking up uh This is awesome. Love love this. Um

So there's a one called Geneva Freeport. The Economist has a bunch of really cool articles about it. The headlines are very clickable. It's like The largest art collection for the Uber Rich that you'll never see. Yeah, it's in

Geneva's in I'm ignorant. Switzerland, uh right? Geneva, Switzerland. I think so. Um and uh this Freeport company, Freeport Geneva Freeport, it it had uh Two hundred fifty employees. And it had sales of seventy million I don't know what that is. Is that uh

With Frank. I don't know what I think that's what that is. Um Upper Usain, yeah. So that's a 70 million francs. I don't know what uh what the conversion is. Right. Um and it sold recently for a lot of money.

Fascinating. Yeah. So so so I think there's more to be more d more needs to be looked into into that. Um okay one last thing I wanted to bring up. 'Cause we got five minutes left. Unless you have one. If you have one, you should go. No, I'm obsessed with free ports now. Free port bar. Um all right. So the last thing is I had this conversation yesterday. I just wanted to share this. I put this in our Facebook group, but Yeah, I wasn't sure if you're able to talk about that. I I it's gonna be kind of a a tease, so Sorry, but whatever.

Um But I still think there's some lessons to be learned. All right, so I was talking to somebody yesterday. A very credible person. They sold last company for over eighty million dollars.

And they were talking about what's next. And um And they said something, you know, we were talking about how we're thinking about You know, what what the next chapter looks like. And

She goes, Yeah, you know, I find myself I asked myself this question Which is How do I build something in two weeks? That's gonna make me five million dollars in the next two months. And literally the other people that were there just started laughing because they're like, What? Like that's not a thing.

And he's like, No, I think it I think it is a thing. And he's like, you know, I didn't know the answer, but like I asked myself the question. I believe that it was possible. He's like, and so I can't I got a bunch of ideas. And he started rattling off the ideas. The very first idea I was like Holy fuck, this gas actually gonna work. Like I would

I would actually bet. that that the idea he said would work, which is crazy because like Even if that idea had a ten percent chance of working, it would be totally worth doing it. If it had a one percent chance, it'd be worth doing it. I think this idea has like a fifty percent chance of working. And after it happens, I will come back on here and I will be like That was the idea.

Uh that I was referencing. But So I can't talk about the idea, I can't say who it was. But I will say I think there's something very powerful to asking yourself. this question. You know, one of my like kind of shawnisms is

Ask a better question, get a better answer. And so instead of saying Oh, what do I want to do with my life? What should my career be? What do I want to work on? Ask a better question. And so his better question was what can I build in two weeks? Oh, and also it was with no code. So what can I build in two weeks? Uh with no only using only no code tools.

Um That will make me five million dollars in two months. And so he first started hunting down What are examples of things that are making five million dollars? you know, in across a two month time span.

And he found a bunch of examples and then he worked off of those to figure out what could he build that's Not that, but similar. Has similar properties. Um Alex Two, who's the guy who created Million Dollar Homepage, did the same thing. He was eighteen years old and he asked himself a question.

How do I make a million dollars? I think it was I think he also said in a month. Like how do I make a how do I become a millionaire in a month? And the idea that he that came to him was million dollar homepage and it actually worked. He actually pulled it off in the next like two months.

Um So what do you think of this? And do you ever ask yourself questions like this? Um, or am I just crazy? A little bit. I I asked myself I Uh, I think of like what my long term goals are and I'm like, how do I get this done just like

This year. Right. I do that. What's my ten year plan? How do I do it in one? Yeah, I ask myself that all the time. But

I I think that most people are shocked. That These silly questions can be Have

Tru answers. Right. And there's many examples of this happening. So for example Um, the Samware broth the Samware brothers, they own Rocket Internet. They cloned eBay. But in Germany and sold it back to eBay in ninety days for fifty million dollars.

And I think that if someone wanted to say I'm going to abandon my family, I'm going to abandon my health, I'm going to abandon my friends, and I'm only gonna do something for six months, I think they'd be shocked at what can happen. Now they're gonna pay the price. But I think it is Great. That's a great question. And I'm gonna tell my company that. So we we had done a version of this like on the podcast once, which was if you had to make a thousand dollars Like either today or like in the next forty eight hours, how would you make a thousand dollars and you can't use any like you only have like a whatever hundred dollar budget. I think you were like I would buy bottled waters, I would go to a place and I would sell, you know, every bottle of water that I'm buying for

Whatever, twenty cents. for three dollars and I would just go in front of a hot area and I I know I could make a thousand dollars. I've done it before. Right. That was like your answer to that. Yeah. I I by the way, I made five grand this weekend and I didn't make five grand because I I sold all my gym equipment. There you go. And I sold a bunch of used clothing. Um but the the gym equipment we sold uh

'cause I bought a lot of it. used and there's a huge demand. I got three or four hundred replies on Craigslist Army. So I I made five I I profited a couple of grand Gross five. Yeah, and Gary Vee's always talking about this, like, okay, go

you know, go hunt free Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace and Thrift Shop or whatever. And then go list everything on eBay and like you can make two you know, two hundred fifty dollars a day doing that and like Go show me your hustle and he like does his whole fucking hustle. This is hard ass work. Yeah, it's hard ass work. I like the first question. Why do you get five million in thirty days? Yeah, exactly. You're probably gonna work the same same level of difficulty just with the bigger prize. So okay, so let's let's play the game.

Um, let's say you need to generate you need to make a million dollars. In the next month. What do you do? And you can't use any of your existing assets to do it. So if I had to use it of ten grand. If I had to use an existing asset, I would for sure do a course on how to start a newsletter.

Um that would I would bet my life that would do. You can use your uh brain, sure, but you can't use your like hustle email list, for example. I would have to I would have to use that. Um I don't know, man. That's a hard ass question. Can you answer yours first,'cause you already discussed this.

Uh well no, I just thought of it just now. But we let's both brainstorm it on the spot. I think that's the sort of real way to do it. So okay, so what are some things that I would do? Um, I think partially like this guy, I would look at things that are already generating that amount. Um, and I would see, okay, is there a riff on this that I can use to

To make that happen. So for example Is there Is there something in the you know Oh, I like, for example, I know a guy who's making a lot of money in crypto right now, and what he's doing is sort of arbitraging between exchanges and liquidity pools to to make money there.

Okay, can that scale up to get to the million bucks? Okay, maybe, maybe not. Maybe it's just that's really complicated. Is there an app that I could use? Okay, is there an app that I could build, right? Like You know, the w the weather app, an alarm clock app, like some stupid simple app that I could do, a meditation app that I c uh you know a sleep sound app that I could build. That could

that could generate that type of revenue in that short amount of time. Well, I think I'd probably have to pay too much for the marketing of it. So in my ten grand budget, I can't do it. So the constraint really is The ten grand budget. Okay. How do I do that? I could I think you have to make something that a business will buy from you. Like they would buy the asset. So like

As a customer, you mean, not like acquire it. Because the acquisition will take too long. Well yeah. What is like an immediate need? So like if someone's like I need more customers, it's like hey, I built this database. I think there might be some customers here, but like if you had to use no code, you'd have to like I you don't have to use no code, you just ten ten thousand dollars. That's it. I would have to because I can't code.

Right. Fuck, that's hard. You can recruit someone, you can convince someone. I mean I guess you could do real estate and try to like Finn Degle like a contract on something, but I I don't know how to do that. So I wouldn't be I wouldn't be able to do that. Yeah, so so that's one way. So what you could do is you can

Find a you could you could go hunt for a property that is sort of distressed in some way. You could Get the right to buy it. And not you know, you you put you get it under contract without putting your money down yet. And then you can

simultaneously find a buyer for that property that's because they're not marketing it the right way. And you could Basically do the buy sell on the same day without ever putting the money into the deal. Wholing. Abreu corrected you, it's called wholesaling.

That's for wholesale? Properties? Yeah, wholesaling real estate. You just flip the contract. It's flipping any of the work. Yeah, exactly. So y you you know, you could do something like that.

Um, but that's not what w I would do. What what would I actually do? I would try to design something that goes viral, right? Because for ten thousand dollars, I'm not gonna be able to get distribution through any paid means. So I need something that's gonna spread virally. And then net me some money at the end. So gotta be a digital good though. It can't be you can't be selling like deodorant.

Yeah, exactly. So it's so it what could go viral, that's gonna be a digital thing. You know, maybe there's a variant of the million dollar homepage type of idea that you could do. Maybe you could actually maybe you could do a physical product. So maybe you could do a physical product that you don't You actually don't um Make it. You just pre- sell it. So so that would still fit within the the bounds, but you'd have it have to be a viral product that would

spread without you doing paid marketing. So you you could do like a Kickstarter type of project and pre-sell. A million bucks and use the ten grand just to make the video. of the product that you're gonna make. So I'd have to have a I'd have to come up with a product like that. Dude, maybe this free porting thing would get that.

Okay, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna come into the next episode and I'm gonna have my answer to this question. I'm gonna have a great answer. I'm gonna have an answer that if I listen to it, I'd be like Fuck, I should go do that. Um, and so I'm I'm gonna make that my homework for the for this thing. I'm gonna give myself the weekend basically to come up with my answer for it. And I think you should do it too. And a brain.

I have an admin doing I well, yeah, I have admittedly an unfair advantage. Like We did a course And I don't know if I want to do courses ever again, but it was like wildly profitable and people loved it, but That for sure would work.

Yeah, but I think we have to do it without using the assets. I think that's the real That's the real uh sort of creative test. Because otherwise It doesn't really apply to most people because they don't have the unfair advantage you have to begin with, which is like whatever millions of people who read your email. So I think you need to

To do it without it. I get that. But If I were to do this, I would absolutely use that because I'm like Uh

This works. Okay. I bring you with a good idea. Okay. So you create a campaign called One Million Masks. And you are gonna give away masks for free to people who need it to prevent coronavirus, and you convince the brands to put their logo on it and pay for the masks. And let's say the mask is fifty cents, you charge a dollar for the mask to the brand or a dollar fifty, you pocket the dollar and you need to you need to get a million masks. uh paid for by brands in the meantime to do it. So you tap into something timely where brands are looking to to put their stamp on something and be a part of them uh contribute to the cause.

This is such an interesting thing. All right, are you down to to come back with your answer to this? And also, Brady, are you down? That was my answer. That's a good one. All right, but I'm giving you extra time. If that's the best answer you come up with, you just come back and say it again. But if you come up with a better answer by our next recording, then you gotta put it you gotta say it on air.

All right, gotcha. Uh, cool. And that's that's how this podcast can go viral, by the way. We just put our money where our mouth is and we say, Hey, we did this brainstorm thing. And by the way, for the next month, every episode is just a progress of doing that thing and reaching the million. This is so much work, but I'm down. I'm I'm very interested. There's a prize. You you can make a million dollars this month. It's not work for nothing.

Are you Do you consider yourself lazy? Yes. Same. To the point of uh like it being a negative.

Same. I'm like, uh so much work. I uh I remember I applied when I when I moved to Silicon Valley, I was applied to the job at Monkey Inferno for the idea lab and I had made like a resume, like a website resume. I I basically went all in for them. I made a w website, it was my resume, it was about them. Tailored to them. And one of the sections was I made it like a video game where I was like, here's my attributes. Like if you're going Madden or whatever, it's like speed ninety-nine, this whatever, ninety-two. And so I had did it for all my business attributes.

And um Work ethic was my lowest attribute. It was like a five out of ten or whatever it was, like a you know, fifty five out of a hundred. And during the interview the guy was like This was this whole website thing was great. Like But wh why did you say your work ethic was bad? Like I've never seen somebody come into an interview and say I'm not that hard of a worker.

Para manas. I was like, yeah, I'm honest. Like that I'm not. I'm just not. I was like there's other people who are, but like You know, that's not what I do. I don't try to work the hardest. Um, I do try to work the smartest.

But I I I definitely I actively try not to work the hardest. There's this uh like quote where Bill Gates he says something like, Yeah, like the best hackers are super lazy and that's why they invent stuff. It's because they don't want to do the same thing over and over again. Right. Yeah, they they find the the quickest path to the solution. Um Well Let's wrap it up. Tweet at us, let us know what you think.

Give me your answers. I'm coming back Monday with great answers. All right. So yeah. And l let us know what what you guys think about this first segment. I think that I'm inspired by this guy, to be honest. I love meeting people Like that. That was inspiring to me. Yeah, that was a good scheme. That that one almost almost pulled it off for him. Actually, yeah.

Cool. Uh all right. I got a

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