Become A Better Writer In 60 Minutes (Masterclass)

What I'm about to say will win you the respect of your friends. A lifetime full of happiness, a villa in the Bahamas. And maybe a really good hair day too. I don't know if it's gonna do any of those things, who's to say, but Here's what it will do. It'll definitely make you a better writer. That's my promise. You will be a better writer.

In the next sixty minutes. I feel like I can rule the world, I know I can be what I want to I put my law in it like my day's all on the road, less travel, never looking at the money. This week somebody asked us a question. They said, Hey, I really love your guys' writing. I have trouble with writing. And uh

I would love if you guys just did an episode with the the eighty twenty. So what is the Just the stuff I need to know to help me be a better writer. So me and Sam sat down. And we wrote down all of our secrets about how we've we've used writing to grow our careers. Which but but but by the way, by the way, I wouldn't even say we're necessarily great writers. I would say that you and I are really good writers But what we've been great at is getting results from it. Would you agree? Yeah, that's right. I don't think I don't look at my stuff, I'm like, wow, this is beautiful prose. But

I do feel confident that if I needed to, I can use my writing to either you know, grow an audience or sell a product or convince people of something. I I I feel confident in that after you know trying for fifteen years and both of us have have done it, right? So the credibility here. You know, before you ever listen to any advice, you should ask yourself, Why should I listen to this person? Well Both me and Sam have built and sold newsletter businesses for

Tens of millions of dollars. We've Tweeted our way, you know, just typing little short sentences to uh, you know, a million person audience between the two of us. Um, you know, I've sold maybe twenty million dollars worth of product online in the e commerce world just through email. Um We both have taught

writing courses or in some form or fashion. I you know I used to charge a thousand dollars a seat for my class And it was the highest rated class on Maven, but here today you get the quick version for free. We're charging you nothing except for There is one thing they gotta do. Well, what do they have to do? This is free, right, Sam? It's totally free, except for one thing.

You have to subscribe. So whether you're listening on Apple, on Spotify, wherever you're listening, or if you're already on YouTube, you just got to click that button. We spend all this time doing this, and unlike the rest of the YouTube world, Where everything is completely free. We're mostly free. All we want in the exchange is a subscribe on YouTube. That's all we want. We can't check if you do it. We call it the gentlemen's agreement. It's just honor code amongst

Two legendary individuals, us and you. And uh we we just trust that you're gonna do it. All right. So Let's let's jump in. How does somebody become a better writer? How can we teach them in the next, I don't know, 45 minutes? To become You know, uh twice as good or three times as good as the writing. I believe that that is possible if they actually do these things. Where do you want to start, Sam?

So let's start with before you guys start writing. And so someone asked us why right? Or someone asked us How do you get better at writing? I actually want to change it to why you should even care about being a better writer. And so there's a few bullet points that we have. So the first being is This is the most self serving thing.

But I wanna say it up front. It's persuasion in the most scalable way. The reason I got into writing was I was uh selling street meat hot dogs on the side of the road. And I was selling one to one. And I got pretty good at it. But then I realized this is really hard. And so I learned about copywriting and I figured Look, now I can write something and it can scale to an infinite amount of people. I never have to change it and I can convince people to do something. Now we're not just talking about copywriting, we're talking about all types of writing. So I can convince someone to feel a certain way, whether I'm writing

a short story or I'm running a blog post. I can convince someone to join my company. I used copywriting on Tinder when I want to convince a girl to give me a chance and go on a date with me. We're talking about all types of writing, but at the end of the day, we're always typically trying to persuade someone to do something. So it's persuasion in the most scalable way. And that's one of the reasons, one of the most important self serving reasons why I think people should care about writing. What else? Yeah, that's that's the first one. The second one is is more internal and wholesome, right? Some people are like ah d I don't know if I want to do persuasion. Truth is you do. Any anything you're anything you're trying to make happen, you're usually going to need to persuade either

people to come join your company, customers, partners, whatever it is. The second one is To write clear, you must think clearly. And the reverse is true too. If you wanna be a great thinker, you wanna have Clarity of thought.

Writing is a essential tool for that. So writing is a forcing function for you to be able to think clearly. Um, you can't hide. behind bad writing. Bad writing will show Bad thinking. Uh whereas if you have great thinking and you write It'll come through.

And so writing is this uh it's a truth teller potion. It will reveal how clear your thinking is. And the the trick is Most people think about it as in Writing is a way for me to communicate my ideas to you. And they think that oh, writing is the bottleneck. They're like ah

I'm just not a good writer. Nobody ever says I'm not a great thinker, but the truth is if you actually get down to it. People who struggle with writing, it's because they don't have the idea clear in their mind. And so writing helps you clear up the fog in your brain. and get crystal clear clarity on what are you actually trying to say, what are the ideas. But it also works.

to not just communicate ideas, but to generate them. I think Paul Graham said this and I it was so true. He goes People think that writing is only about communicating the ideas you already have, but actually the truth is when you sit down to write, You will generate new ideas. Writing is an incredible idea generator. And so It's like, you know, starting a little fire in your brain. And uh, you know, those sparks can lead to new thoughts and new ideas that are quite powerful. And if you're not writing regularly, you're missing out on some of those ideas.

And I think that when we say writing, I'm particularly referring to longer form. It could be shorter form, a handful of sentences, a tweet, whatever, but oftentimes it's longer form. And the reason why I prefer that when I'm running out my ideas is You can't really hide a bad idea, or you can't hide bad thinking. In long writing. You know where where you can hide? Bad thinking.

And a PowerPoint. Now that doesn't mean that your ideas in long riding are gonna be good. But you just can't hide it. You can't hide that it's bad. And so that's why I prefer mapping it all out. And then the third point of writing creates new ideas. Uh I think

Like you said, Paul Graham said it best. He has this great blog post he wrote in two thousand five. He said something like Um Eighty percent. of your writing will be bad and then you'll have to cut cut it down to the twenty percent that's good. And when you start writing, you'll probably generate fifty

more new ideas. Right. And so it's a really great forcing function where it gives you the lanes of the road and you have to stay within those lanes. And oftentimes you can change your opinion as you go and you could it it it evolves your idea and your thinking. And we've all seen Jeff Bezos banned PowerPoint from Amazon. He realized that Amaz uh PowerPoint was this thing that sort of the most charismatic, loudest voice in the room, or somebody with good slide design skills. could kind of like create an illusion of

Good thinking. By using PowerPoint. And actually Uh he forced everybody instead to write long form memos, basically narratives. And he's like in the long form written word. There's no place to hide. There's no way to use design or good presentation skills to uh to

make it seem like this is more well thought through than it is. It either is or it isn't, and you'll you'll find out. So I I think it works inside of companies as well as it does out externally to your customers and potential customers. So All right, now let's get down to the actual tactics. So That's the That's the theory.

Now how do you actually do it? So for me All the work begins before I've typed a single word. And I s I always say you want to begin with the end in mind. What I mean by this is

I s before I write anything, I first decide what is the reaction I want. I learned this from a guy named Chris Quigley. I don't know if you know Chris Quigley, but he was a um Just his character. He came to town in San Francisco from from the UK. And he was uh he host he had an ad agency. And his added one specific thing. They would make videos go viral. And I remember talking to Chris and I was like

Wow, it would be awesome to do a viral video. That sounds like kinda like a lottery ticket thing, like What if my YouTube video just went viral and got millions of views? How crazy would that be? And I asked him I go, What's your hit rate like? You know, out of every hundred videos you do, how many go viral? One, two, three videos out of a hundred? And he's like

No, if we do ten videos, eight or nine will go viral. Really. And I was like what? He's like, Well, for two reasons. He said. Number one.

We have a large blog audience. So we we can guarantee the first like hundred thousand views, like it will get seen. It won't just get lost in the abyss of The internet of content. Like Whatever we have, it'll get seen. He's like, But that doesn't make it go viral. That just makes sure it gets a chance. Because the second thing is

We always work backwards from an emotion. He goes people will only share or act. If they feel something at the end. So he he created this thing that he had like LOL WTF.

O M G Uh all like you know, something so cute, uh heart warming. And so he's like These are the only emotions. that you can tap into. There's like seven or eight emotions that people can c can tap into. And he would work backwards. He would say, We don't write a script until we first pick the emotion. We're going for

Wow. Or we're going for WTF outrage. Oh, WTF outrage. Uh, you know, I'll give you an example of one that I just saw yesterday. Elon Musk tweeted out this thing that was Uh Some hidden b like language in a bill, like a bill that's going through Senate right now.

That was like if the next president gets elected And they decide to stop spending on the war in Ukraine. They could be up for impeachment. Because of the way this bill is written. And and he was like, Oh my God, the Democrats are baking this in to the bill. They're trying to pass this on page one hundred and forty. They're trying to slip this right under your nose without telling anybody. And they're gonna try to impeach Trump if he got elected and tried to stop try to

you know, if he got peace in the m in in the in the Ukraine and stop the spending, he could be up for impeachment. And of course the post goes super viral because it's outrage. It's outrage from the Democrats, it's outrage from the Republicans. That is engineered to go viral. And so similarly, Chris used to have a search engine. He used to be able to he created a tool internally for them where they could just search by emotion and it would show them YouTube videos that are targeting that emotion. And they would use it when they would brainstorm. And so I stole this and I would start with

I asked myself three questions. What is the reaction I want? That's always an emotion. The next one is what is the action I want? So what do I want them to do after they read this? Like

Click the buy button, click the share button, forward this to a friend, sign my petition, whatever it is. Who knows what it is. But What's the reaction? What's the action? And the last thing I say is At the end of this, if they could just remember one line or one takeaway, one sentence. What would it be? What would I pick out of the whole thing that I just wrote? Because people remember sentences, not books. And so you have to think about that. So don't I always begin with the end in mind. I decide those before I ever write a word. Do you do something similar?

I do the exact same thing and typically I start with a headline and I start with the subheadline. So if you share on Facebook, the headline's the big text, the subheadline is the hundred and eighty character thing underneath that. Oftentimes I go back and I rech and I change the headline a ton, but that one sentence, what I call the subheadline, that Doesn't change. And that one sentence is what helps.

Like clarify what I'm gonna write. So I actually don't do outlines. So there's a lot of things that I think you're taught in fifth grade that I think are really stupid. One of'em is an outline. I I guess I I guess it's okay to teach that, but I don't use outlines anymore. And my outline instead is that one subheadline. Um that's what I use.

In fact you you brought up a good point, which is To be a great writer in the World like as an adult on the internet. The internet world, yeah. The internet world. You have to unlearn Pretty much everything you learned in school.

So in school you learned Like what do they what do they reward in school? They're like Uh minimum of this word count. So they're trying to get you you must write at least this length. And they're trying to get you to like so people are writing long words and double spacing their thing and trying to like add a bunch of filler and fluff. Well, you gotta do the exact opposite when you're out on the internet. You wanna be concise, you wanna be quick, you wanna eliminate a bunch of the fluff. Shorter is better on the internet.

In terms of adding just extra cruft, but when you're in school, they almost force you and teach you to write these long form things. They also want you to write fa w fancy w fancy vocabulary. So you're You get bonus points if you use, you know Uh ameliorate.

rather than, you know, heal or help or whatever. And and so you you're rewarded for using fancy words, but the reality is You wanna be writing at a at a very like accessible language, if you want uh reading level if you want to do well on the internet. So Yeah, both you and I, we target kind of like fifth to eighth grade. Reading levels. And you could use these tools, these checkers, like Hemingway is an app that you could use where you could put in your text and it'll tell you you're writing at a twelfth grade level or you're writing at a fifth grade level.

And The lower the better. Is better on the other. In the second half of this episode, let's go through all those like tips and tricks. Um In terms of in terms of writing, my process is I I do copy work.

Then I draft, then I incubate, and then I edit. So what that means is copy work. It's the same way it's this old technique that people have learned how to write. Um, we don't do it anymore. But I found it to be the most effective way. I I sat myself in a room for like two hours a day and did this for like eight months in order to learn how to write. And copy work is basically when you take

writing writing that you love. It could be a a full book. It could be a script for SNL if you want to learn how to write comedy. It could be a blogger that you like. When I'm writing an important piece, I'll just write maybe for ten minutes. I literally take my pen. And by hand, I copy someone else's writing that I really like and that helps me get into the flow. So we we what we said was.

Before you've written a word, you like most people just sit down and they start trying to write. What we've told you is do two different things instead. Begin with the end in mind. You know, the what is the action, the reaction you want, and what's the what would be the headline that would grab somebody. And then the second thing Sam's saying is you don't just jump in Like you know, if you're gonna go do a workout, you don't just go start sprinting right away. You warm up I do warm up sets. And you do the same thing before you write a word of your own.

You start by writing but not your own words. You take some writing that you really like that maybe you want to almost like throsmosis just steal their little writing juju. It's gonna go into your brain. You'll start to talk like them, write like them. If you do this and you literally write word for word. Exactly what they said. It's even more effective if you handwrite it, but at worst. Type it.

But you wanna don't don't think. Don't add your own stuff. Don't improve it. Just literally write word for word and do it for like even 10, 15 minutes. I still do this today. This is not like advice that I tell other people to do I don't do. I still do this today. And Sam, you don't know this. I use one of your posts as one of my I have like three coaches.

One of yours is one that I use for my copy work. It's this one which one were you? I forgot the name of the blog, but it's I always search for it with the same headline, which is Uh let me be perfectly clear. You're reading this because I w because I want you to. Um, and you're like, I have engineered the start of this. And you basically talk about how you've mesmerized them. You're like

Every word of this was chosen, every sentence to lead you to the next sentence. And I love that. It's the we call it the slippery slope. And so you uh I use one of yours whenever I want to write like in a really persuasive copyrighty way. If I wanna write more like business serious, then I have a different one. I use this one that the the CEO of Slack did where he wrote an internal memo that I really like called We Don't Sill Saddles Here. But you literally just write a word for it. So that's your warm up. So again Two things before you ever write your own stuff.

It's exactly like playing music. Okay. So if you're whether when you're a beginner playing music, you just play other people's songs and then you steal a little bit. You're like, Oh, I like the I like this genre, this genre, this genre, I'm gonna combine it to my own thing. Same way where you're writing a new song, you kinda warm up Maybe playing the Beatles and then eventually you're like, all right, I'm in the mood to write something beautiful. This is what I'm gonna do. You take someone's recipe and you make their recipe before you go make your own thing. You play a cover before you write your own songs. Same way. You do copy work before you write your own stuff. The second step is actually where a lot of people get screwed up. So it's the drafting step. And the reason people get screwed up here is because they're afraid to look stupid. And the drafting step is actually where you're supposed to look stupid.

And so whenever I draft something, I just bang it out as fast as I can. And it sounds really dumb. And I accept that it sounds dumb. And I and here's why. Because after the drafting set Is the incubation period. You know, like um Have you ever heard of like the phrase like shower thoughts where you like think of silly things in the shower?

I actually I think there's like some science behind this. I think I forget what what it's called. But it's like when you're out riding a bike and you're out going for a walk, where you're just sitting things. I think it's called passive thinking. You actually get great breakthroughs. And so what I like to do is I draft my first thing. They it doesn't take very long and I know that it's bad, but I don't show anyone.

Then I go for a walk or I'll just sit. Sometimes that will take forty eight hours, sometimes that will take one hour, sometimes ten minutes, sometimes a week. I just let it sit. Then I do nothing. Now here's where the the last part and the most important part is. Uh Ogil V.

One of my favorite writers. What's his first name? David. David Ogilvy. He's got this great line. He goes, I'm a lousy writer, but I'm a good editor. And this is where greatness happens happens. Stephen King calls it killing your darlings. He says when the the editing phase is where all the great stuff happens. And this is actually where the gold happens. And a lot of people don't do this process. What they do is they write their draft thinking that's the final bit.

And they get afraid and nervous and they never write it. And they don't actually incubate and they don't actually edit. Do you do these things? Hundred percent. You I learned this from you, uh the incubate part. So I used to Draft. And then try to edit in the same session.

'Cause I knew editing is where the value is, right? Great writing is great editing. Let's be perfectly clear. Great writing is great editing. However The mistake I was making before was I would write And then I would immediately try to edit and power through. And I didn't have that break, that gap to actually go back and improve my ideas passively, just load the problem in my brain.

Go do something else. Go for a walk, go for a run, go for a workout, go shower, go cook some food, chop some vegetables. Doesn't matter what it is. But I give myself actually like at least ninety minutes away from it. Sometimes six hours away from it. And then when I come back

I look at it and it's just so obvious to me. Oh strike this. You delete this, move this to the top. That's actually the best part. Oh, you know what I should say here? I should say this. Oh, that analogy I was missing. Here it is. And so you immediately it starts to come together when I do that that part, right? And I also realize I need to shift my time ratio.'Cause like you like you said, I used to be a

Overthinker Drafter? where I would overthink how much I need to how much time to spend in the draft phase. So I try to make a good draft. Bad idea. You actually just want to have a Like quick and dirty draft, like a brain dump draft. And so

I used to try to make a good draft that would take me way too long and I get fatigued and I'd feel bad about it and I'd be like I hate this. This is stupid. Should I even do this? And all the doubts creep in. And then I'll try to edit right away. Now Short draft. And then high energy edit after I have that incubation period. So this is Um

hundred percent what I do and it is extremely effective. And once you get good and once you find a process, sometimes I'll wake up in the middle of the night And I think of an idea. And I just write that sentence in my phone and then I just forget about it. But then I see something else in the world and I'm like, Oh, that reminds me of this concept I was I was thinking about.

Is it weird if I sign off with Sayonara suckers? I love you at the end. Would that be a thing? Well I'll have like a n a do you have like Notes app or a a notes folder in your phone where it's like You just have like a sentence and you're like that's a beautiful sentence. I'm just I don't know I don't know where I'm gonna use that, but that was a beautiful. A lot of times I get it from podcasters or YouTubers. I'm like

You he you hear how he phrased that? That word a that was a sharp phrase. That cut to me. One of the things we didn't say in the before phase is having a swipe file. So classic thing that all writers have and all marketers have, which is A swipe file. It's basically a stash. Whenever you see something dope. Something that's well done, something that's good. You just stash it away so that when it comes time for you to make one, you could be like, I need to make a landing page. And you would go and you'd look at your stash of great landing pages you've seen.

And you would have so much inspiration right there ready for you at your fingertips because you did the work beforehand. And so that's another one of the before is you gotta have a swipe file. We I have one for phrases, for headlines, for connecting words, for science for hellos and goodbyes. For some reason, whatever, I'd write my newsletter. I knew what I wanted to say. But the start always was so awkward. It was like a hello, you know, hello there. Friends and I was like, God, this sucks. And then I started keeping a a a file of like

Anytime I liked an liked an opener or a closer. So I have one opener's file, one closer's file, and I have a whole bunch in there that I can use to riff off of'cause that for whatever reason, that was my my blocker when I would write. I'll I'll just hear a beautiful phrase and I'll write it down. So like I went to this guy's website. And uh he was talking about the best like speaker system or something, and he started off the paragraph with Well, folks, it doesn't get any better than this.

And I was like oh And beautiful. That's mine. And like I I just have this whole bank of like these things of people saying like cute phrases that I'm like up, that's a beautiful like I just felt an emotion when I read that. Basically you have to think every People are scrolling through thousands of articles every day. And I if I see a line that grabs my attention, I know That's good. That's mine. That's mine. And I just have this whole bank of these. So let's move on to um some more tips about.

Talking about The actual writing part because I think that what you're taught in school We're basically gonna say do the opposite of a lot of the Yeah, here's right. Here's the mistakes, common mistakes. Mistake number one. They start with a bunch of intro, context, background fluff.

Uh you wrote a th uh the the tip is actually don't bury the lead. So the first sentence should punch. So try putting the most important sentence at the top. Try putting the most provocative statement at the top. Try putting the promise at the top or the the bait, the hook at the top. So a as an example, you have one here that

When you when you were Building the hustle, one of the things you try to do was these viral blog posts. You were like, I'm gonna write these blog posts. If I can get a million views on those blog posts and some percentage of them will subscribe, that's how I'll grow my subscriber base. Right. And I remember reading this, which was. First sentence. I spent the last thirty days eating nothing but Soylent, a new age powered powdered meal replacement.

Why would I do something so stupid? I'll explain. But first, if you're not familiar with soil it, here's the gist. A great opener, right? Because Yeah. You know, um

You know, the last few days have been uh, you know, really tough for me because I've been doing this new experiment. To give you background who I am, I'm Steve. I'm a programmer here at this company, and you know, I'm blah blah blah boring. Right. So instead I spent the last thirty days eating the way soilant. Why would I do something so stupid? Let me explain. Curiosity has been created and now I want to know. Yeah, typically when

You're thinking about the lead. So I found it helps with a few things. One If you're new, what I tell people is let me see your opener. Cut it and like cut almost all of it except for like the last couple sentences. And that's typically a good trick. And the reason why I say that is when you're taught in school how to write. Have you ever heard of like a a thesis statement where you have like a Opening paragraph with the thesis at the bottom.

Point one, point two, point three, and then a closer. I'm like just tell me your thesis statement right off the right off Like s just just say that. Just punch me in the face with that. That should be your s that should be your opening line. Another thing is I like to think of um

Have you been to England and have you ever noticed they have signs that say Mind the Gap. Right. I guess that's like when you're I always say mind the curiosity gap. So mine so with the Curiosity Gap means I'm gonna I'm gonna punch you in the face to grab your attention. 'Cause that gets you to fall down the slippery slope. And the more that you fall down that slope, the further you're gonna continue to read. And so I wanna grab your attention.

But I don't want to tell you exactly everything, but I want to grab your attention by not bearing the lead and I'm gonna get you to fall down this slope a little further. Yeah, that simple test is take your hand. Cover up all of the text except for the first two sentences. Read those first two sentences and be like, what if I didn't know me, if I didn't care about me, if I didn't if I didn't have to read this, would I want to read would I need to read the next sentence? Not what I need to read the whole thing, would I need to read the next sentence. If it's yes, you've created a curiosity gap. Then you drag your hand down. You reveal that next sentence.

You say. If I read this sentence, would I need to read the next sentence? Right, but I want to know what what's the next sentence. And then by the third or fourth time you've done that, now they're in. Now they're invested. Now you have a little more leeway to let it breathe. And and and create and create a little bit of background'cause they're they're have they're

invested in getting to the end of the out of the outcome. But like The reason this sounds so brutal where you're gonna cover up I think I'm gonna cover up eighty five, ninety percent of the text. Yes.

Because the reality is that's actually how the reader's eyes work. Eighty, ninety percent of people are only ever gonna read the headline. And if the headlines no good, they're never gonna get to any of the other stuff. And so some people are resistant to write a juicy headline. But the reality is if it's not juicy enough.

They'll never get to that those great ideas that you have inside. You're sort of doing your own ideas a disservice. And so you want to find that line between like, Without completely whoring yourself out or making a false promise, still find a way to make it juicy enough where you created that curiosity gap where I have to read the next sentence and that's it. But I w what I used to say was It ain't clickbait. If it you're actually getting something like it

Bait me that's fake. So as long as I can say the truth, uh, but I say it as sensational or Clicky way, we say clicky. It ain't bait if I actually deliver on the promise. You have to pay it off. If you don't pay it off, then then it's bad. But if you're paying it off And you're paying it off soon. You can't pay it off like, you know, ten minutes later. You have to you have to be able to do that. All right. Next one is

Right like you talk. So so many times people are like I can't really r like I'm not good at r I'm not a good writer. And again, I'm not a good writer is actually code for I'm not a good thinker. And the way you test this is Cool, forget about writing it down. Just tell me. Like explain it to me.

Either they just say it out loud and I'm like, Great, you wrote it. Just write that down now. Like write down literally what you just said. You don't have to have like this second character, the Shakespeare inside you that writes in a completely different style and communicates completely differently than you actually talk. You don't need that. You actually want them to be very similar. It's actually the most engaging type of writing is when you feel like the author is just talking to you, having a conversation with you specifically. And so right like you talk, it's a good good method, but it also reveals if you can't even talk about it, you're not ready to run it yet. You gotta first be able to like explain it.

Just in Plain language yourself. When I tell my team, so they'll like write this huge thing and ask me to read it. And I'm like, I don't really want to read this. Just tell me what it means. And they'll say in one sentence, like, Okay, cool, that's your first sentence. Um, and that's probably all you you need to say for this thing. Uh, but like there's a few ways to figure out what not to do. One is you go to people's uh LinkedIn.

If they use the word utilize That's probably not good. Have you ever heard someone say they utilize or they did? Like what are other like LinkedIn jargon? LinkedIn's like that's that's so good. We should make a LinkedIn hit list of just uh bullshit words that nobody ever says, but people think it's okay to write. Yeah, it's like, dude, I've never heard of you you use that word utilized. Right. The the second thing to remember is There's Informal.

is can or rather informal can be professional. A lot of times people think Informal is the opposite of professional. And I actually say that's that's nonsense. And I'm gonna actually show examples of of how that's not true in in a few minutes. But an and another good line that I think about is Uh It was Stephen King. He says it any word you have to hunt in a thesaurus is the wrong word. There's no exceptions to this rule.

Uh and so like if you have to like look up like what a word means You don't use it. You want to use the words that most everyone uses. And I'm gonna again, I'm gonna show you examples of really complicated stuff explained in a really simple way. Like Here's a really good example of writing like you talk. So one of my favorite pieces of writing is Louis CK. So Louis C. K. about ten or fifteen years ago

He used to release his own specials like on his website. And if you Google Louis C Neville Medora or something like that. You'll see my friend Neville wrote a blog post about some of his stuff because it's it's actually not up anymore. But he's got this great uh line in one of his bits, he says, or one of his landing pages. He goes, Please, please don't tort the special. If you want to share it, direct people here. It's so easy just to drop five dollars.

We don't make you join anything. We let you download any file you want. It costs a shitload of money to make these specials and I do it myself. I love offering it to you directly for so cheap and so easily. And I would like for that to continue being a good idea. That's a great simple way just to say Don't steal. Uh and that makes me feel. I'm like all right, you're right. This is I should abide by this, you are exactly right. There is no jargon, simple language.

Yeah, a hundred percent agree. I also think that uh Yeah, uh this also works for choosing what to write about. So for example, sometimes people will write about shit that they would never talk to you about. We had this problem early on at the milk road. So When we did the milk road. I was the initial writer, so I created the initial voice. And Milk Road was a a newsletter that we built in the crypto space.

And we went from zero subscribers and never have written a daily newsletter before. to the biggest crypto newsletter in the world and sold it for millions of dollars. That in one year. So that was the the success outcome. So how did we actually do it? And more importantly, how did I train other people to write it instead of me? Because I didn't want to wake up every morning and stress about sending this email out at five AM.

to, you know, a couple hundred thousand people, that that was not the idea of a good life for me. So I was like, let me See if I could train people to do this. One of the hacks to training people to do this was I I was like, God, I feel like they're writing this both with Too much extra fluff and jargon.

And secondly They're writing about stuff that's kinda boring. So like the topic is boring. Like what's happening? I was like, I and I told him, I was like, I feel like you would never just tell me about this. Like if I was just talking to you, if I was your fr your friend and you were like, Oh, did you hear what happened today? Which is what a news what a new what the news is trying to tell you, right? Hey, did you hear what happened today?

This crazy thing happened, this interesting thing happened, this big event happened. I was like, you're writing about stuff that wouldn't even make that filter. You wouldn't even tell me about it. So why are you doing this? So what I had them do, I was like, forget writing a draft and having me be the editor. Instead I want you to send me a voice memo, no more than sixty seconds in the morning. Which is basically

Oh, did you hear what happened today? Uh, this guy said this thing and people are freaking out because of blah blah blah. And this announcement was made. And people think it's gonna be a big deal and the price is gonna go up because that would mean this. And as soon as they started doing that, I was like, Yep, that sounds perfect. Just write that down.

And it just was such a good filter. And so one way to think about what to write about And how to write it. Is do this little kind of voice memo test. So can you just if you were just to tell your friend about this. You know hey, I have this idea, blah, blah, blah. Or

You know, I noticed this thing. I found it really interesting because blah blah blah blah. And if you can't If it's not interesting to your friend, guess what? It's not gonna be interesting to a stranger. Right. Like you you have to be able to to explain it in a way that's simple and use that as a filter. If you would never talk about it.

Don't write about it. Well and the the tip that I used to give So at when I saw the hustle we had close to two million subscribers, I believe. And for new writers, they would They like would

kick ass in their audition. And then they would get nervous, like when they're I'm like, Yeah, two million's a lot of people, I get it. But here's the tip. Write to me, write to Sam. Just literally you're only writing to me. And that's what I tell people when they're writing blog posts, when they're writing anything else. Just write to one person. You're only writing to one human being.

It's just coincidence that many others might read it, but just you only write to one one person. Direct it to that one person, and that's the way to go. Uh and so it makes it a lot easier. Right. Uh let's go to let's go to uh write simply. What I've found Is around You can go as low as fourth grade, but around sixth, seventh, and eighth grade reading level is the way that you want to write. Now

There's this app called Hemingway app. I love that app. I don't really have to use it too much anymore. But It's a free thing. It's Hemingway app.com. You could put your writing in there. And I prefer to keep my stuff around sixth to seventh grade. Now to give you guys perspective, I think USA News.com, USA News the newspaper, I believe that's at a fourth grade reading level. New York Times, which is highly regarded by a lot of people. That's a a seventh grade read reading level.

And I actually went and put Warren Buffett. Warren Buffett writes about insurance companies, a very complicated topic. I went and put his stuff through having way up as well. Same thing, sixth, seventh, eighth grade reading level. And it teaches you how to write at that level. And there's tactics on how to do that, like don't use adverbs, keep sentences short. The Heming That Way app is an awesome way. To um check. Yeah, to check to do it for you. Yeah, I think that's a great one. Um

Another one that you wrote in here is about storytelling. And so I think storytelling is now like a little more advanced category of how to be a great writer. Is being able to use Use the art of storytelling.

Uh, do you want to give an example of that? Uh, or how do you want to talk about storytelling here? So here's an example of storytelling. So about Ten years ago. There's this company called Hint. Hint water. It's you see it's like a w beverage that you guys see in the stores.

It's called um And the the lady named Kara, she had this great story. She went and gave this talk. uh at one of my events. And there was at the very end, there was one question that someone asked her, and I heard that story in a sixty minute talk. I was like, Oh, that's a that's a hit,'cause that just made me feel something. I'm gonna give you an example of this story. So the headline was

Getting called Sweetie helped this entrepreneur create a multi million dollar business. Sweetie, the executive said. And I just dropped the phone for a minute. And let and here's the the opening line. Last week at Pizza Pizza and Forties, Kara Hint, the founder Kara Golden, the founder of Hint, told me a story that fired me up. The setup goes like this.

And it explains the story about how she was drinking ten Cokes a day. She was on the phone with an executive of Co Coca Cola. And she said, I'm gonna create a new version of water that just has a uh a little bit of fruit in it and no sugar. An executive at Coke goes, Listen, sweetie. America's love sweet.

This is never gonna work. By the way. That's a great example of working backwards from an emotion. Even if you didn't consciously do it in this case, you you knew That story would hit because It has outrage. It has a W T has outrage OMG type of reaction of like your asshole.

But let me fill you in on the results. So I wrote the blog post. Not in order to promote hint. I wrote the blog post because I thought this was just a cool story of a this entrepreneur getting like sh it was a sexist moment and she was getting hated on, whatever. Hint saw the article. They ended up spending millions of dollars to promote this article. And at the very bottom of the article and it sa it says something like

This conversation inspired Golden now seventeen later s seventeen years later to found hint. And they do a hundred million in sales. Uh here's the flavors they have. This article made them tens of millions of dollars in sales. We used to get so much traffic to this article because they ended up promoting it. I wasn't selling hip water. I was just telling a cool story about the founder. And in exchange, it made all these people want to buy this stuff.

And the if in fact if you Google Hit water sweetie article. You'll see articles written about this article about how it was a huge success. And this was sort of an accident. I just wrote something cool and they actually were like, Oh, let's promote this. But it worked wonderfully because it was a story that grabbed your attention. You wanna say a few words on on how to how to write a great story? I have a couple of tips. So a couple of tips on on writing a great story or telling a great story.

So Go look at the greatest storytellers ever. Uh, one of them is uh Aaron Sorkin. He's known for writing great dialogue. He wrote, you know Uh The social network movie, he wrote Uh what is it, West Wing, he wrote the newsroom he

Great writer, famous writ famous Hollywood writer. He says I worship. At the altar of intention and obstacle.

A story is just two things. Somebody has an intention. So Somebody wants something. And there's an obstacle in their way. By the way, that line

I worship at blank altar. At the altar of the blank? Yeah. So Th that is going into my bank. Uh all right, so uh So intention and obstacle. Intention is s some character wants something. And then there's an obstacle in their way. The more they want it, like

Their daughter was just taken hostage. Huge, huge intention. Obstacle. They don't know by who or where they are. And uh all they have to go on is this one five second call that they were on or whatever, right? Like obstacle. They they have no way to find them and they're just a dad. How are they gonna ever, you know, get their daughter back?

And so Intention and obstacle is the core element of any good story. So somebody wants something in the in the case that you just said. Not only does Kara want to make her business successful, she wants to be taken seriously. as a female entrepreneur. Obstacle

Coke executive, men men are pigs, nobody believes in her. Right. That's a core that's a core of a story. And so Any story, if you can't, they always say, like in a movie, you should be able to pause at any moment of any story and say What does that character want?

And what's in their way. And if you can't pause and name that right now, you have failed as a storyteller. 'Cause the audience you you think they're you're gonna tell them later what the They want. No, no, you've lost their attention. the the initial stakes. And if you watch any movie, they establish this, right?

I mean, even like silly rom coms, it'll be Uh. She wakes up, she's got her assistant and chauffeur driving her to work. She's clearly high powered. But her but she's alone. And she doesn't have a relationship, right? Like that'll be it'll be obvious to her. She'll see somebody out the window while she's driving to work in her show for limousine, and it's this girl in love with her boyfriend, and she looks at it kinda longingly and then she just goes back to her her you know palm pilot or whatever before to back to work.

And so You know what the character wants and you know what's in her way. She's she doesn't have somebody because she has to find the route guy and she's still busy with work. And so everything is always this intention obstacle. The second thing is You have to establish like how do you make a story better or worse? Stakes is the next thing.

So what is at stake? Uh what do you have to lose if this doesn't go well? And stakes doesn't have like stakes initially, the beginner version of stakes is life or death. But the true art And some of if you like some of the stories that I've told on this podcast, the true art is when you can establish sta high stakes emotions in a low stakes environment. So

If I can tell you How I was feeling, and if I can get you to believe that I thought everything was on the line. just with some little interaction I was having with the like this person in the grocery store line and how I didn't want them to win,'cause fuck them. And they can't cut they cut in front of me, but I'm not gonna I'm not gonna cut in front of them, but I need them to know that it wasn't okay, but I don't know how to do it without being an asshole myself.

And if I can establish the stakes that This matters to me. I can get you to care about the outcome of it, but it can be in a low stake situation. Now you're really cooking with gas if you can do something like that. Because otherwise you're limited to just life or death stories. The best example you have done of that, you're very good at this, is um I I distinctly remember the story. Uh

You do you doing a shirtless workout on your driveway. And your H O A being like No. We w we can't have this. And you're like We're going to Petty Court. We're going to H O E Like I just that was a beautiful story. Let's go.

Oh, I could fight to the death as a matter of principle here, because you know, what are you trying to say? And what does this mean, right? And if it means something to me, then I can make it mean something to you. So that sort of thing. So Larry David's great at this too. Like whenever I watch that show, Curb Your Enthusiasm, like they're making a story out of something so silly and small. Uh you know like it's it's Ten times more likable when it's something relatable or small. But it still carries the emotional impact. And if you could do that, you have an infinite supply of stories. He notices that people don't talk people don't talk to someone if they're wearing a MAGA hat.

And so he starts wearing a MAGA hat all the time. He's like, I don't wanna talk to me. I'm just gonna wear this hat. Uh but that's a a really good example of a high stakes uh high stakes and a low stakes environment. Where like it doesn't really matter, but it's very funny. Um and then Let's talk about uh really tactical stuff. So short sentences. Um, I'm a firm believer in short sentences. And so

I'll give you I'll explain why, but Warren Buffett. Oh. you know, runs Berkshire halfway. Berkshire owns.

Dozens and dozens of companies. Arguably the most complicated one is GEICO. Insurance companies are very, very, very Hard to understand. However I don't remember if the hustle did an analysis on this or someone else did.

But he writes these famous annual shareholder letters every single year. He's a very good writer. And listen to this. From uh nineteen seventy four to twenty thirteen, someone analyzed this and the letters per sorry, the words per sentence. dropped from seventeen to thirteen. If you look at like we actually did an analysis on this.

Every year it gets shorter and shorter and shorter. And the reading level Drop from a tenth grade. to a fourth grade reading level. So the richer he got And the more complicated his businesses got

the simpler the writing got because he just got better at explaining it in a really easy to understand way. And he's probably once mm, kind of somewhat the average show to be able to understand this. And so short. Simple sentences are key, even in complicated environments. And here's a really good example. So if you go to hey.com, so hey.com is an alternative to Gmail. It's a

It's uh service that makes you pay though. So it's even they they've raised the stakes there. So you have to pay for their email. uh there's a letter from the CEO and that's one of my favorite uh Like tactics, by the way, on a sales page is a letter from a CEO. And he says, Hey everyone.

I'm Jason. CO thirty seven signals. Email gets a Bad rap. But it shouldn't.

Email's a treasure. And he goes on to explain why G uh email is awesome and why it should be more special than it is. And it's the most simple language to explain email, and I love it. And there's lots of examples of simple language and s and simple ways to explain complicated things. And if you're able to do that, Oftentimes they will have shorter sentences, less words, and it it's significantly more in uh

effective than longer stuff. Related to that, it doesn't have to be only one length. So there's this great graphic that's gone viral many times. You've probably seen it. But I'll share it anyways. We'll put it up on YouTube because it's a visual thing. You gotta see this. The rhythm thing. The rhythm thing, which is Great writing has rhythm. So there's a an example. So th I'll just read this out loud. He goes. This sentence has five words.

Here are five more words. Five word sentences are fine. But several together become monotonous. Listen to what is happening. Just writing is getting boring. The sound of it drones.

It's like a stuck record. You demand some variety. Now listen. I vary the sentence length and I create music. Music.

The writing sings. It has a pleasant rhythm, a lilt, a harmony. I use short sentences. And I use sentences of medium length. And sometimes when I'm certain that the reader is rested, I will engage him with a sentence of considerable length, a sentence that burns with energy and builds with the empty of a crescendo, the roll of the drums, the crash of the cymbals, and s sounds that say, listen to this. This is important. So write with a combination of short, medium, and long sentences. Create music, create sound that pleases the reader's ears. Don't just write words, write music. I love that thing. It is amazing. And so you want to have short by default, but then like he says, when the reader is rested and ready.

use a long sentence to a great effect. And so that's like an advanced move when it comes to writing. Most people's problem is everything every sentence is too long. And so you start with short sentences, but then you figure out how to vary it so that your writing sings. Whenever I uh Sometimes when I write something that I get really into, I am almost I almost feel like uh I'm like I channel like my inner M or like some rapper or something where I'm like, what type of rhythm could get people flowing? Like I need to have a rhythm that gets people to fall down this. And like there's small tactics like anytime you want to use a comma, use a period and then start the next sentence with and or but.

Um or there's other things like put your internal dialogue like um W or like Or or the reader's internal dialogue, like So why would I do this? You're asking yourself right now? Right.

Who the hell is this person talking to me through my computer screen, telling me what to do and why on earth should I trust them? Like you can do these little things to change the rhythm and grab people's attention. Yeah, a hundred percent. Uh th that's a that's a great way of putting it. I also think like the rhythm thing is uh It comes from the copy work. So back to the copy work at the beginning. If you do copy work on something that has rhythm, like I will write that that same thing that I just read out loud. I'll write that in my copywork. Takes

Whatever fifty five seconds. But now I'm already kind of revved up to write in that style, to have that that variety, that rhythm when I write the next thing. Should we wrap up by saying some resources that we both use in order to get influenced. Yeah. Yeah. How how do you learn? How do you get better from here? Because this was the crash course

Just hit on a bunch of bunch of the big topics. There's obviously a lot of nuance and subtlety and like doing it takes both practice as well as like a little bit of deeper understanding, but where where should people go? So what I'll start with some some books that I like. I like On Writing by Stephen King, that changed my life. Um, I like that one a lot.

Um, what did I like about it, by the way? I read that book, I didn't love it. Well what what was so good about it? I just felt that he was teaching me how to write better, and but he was living it as he was going. And so the first half of the book, I believe, is his biography, and the second half is tool, he calls it the the toolkit. Where he explains like how he does stuff. And I just felt in the biography part he was doing it and then the all in the toolkit part he was doing. Yeah. Yeah. And so I really appreciate that. But then I also get a lot of inspiration from funny original thinkers. You know who's one of the most original like people with words right now? Is Theo Vaughn.

So I'll hear Theo Vaughn, like for example He had an ad for athletic greens and he goes Today's sponsors, Athletic Greens. I know what you're thinking. What is this? Just a bunch of aliens playing track and field. And like like he he does these like silly things. Unexpected unexpected silly things. And he's like a treasure trove of like interesting phrases. So I'm a big fan of like listening to what he's saying and why. I also listen to a ton of comedians because they've perfected this. So like Dave Chappelle's really great with timing.

Shankillis really good with timing. And so I pay attention to l a lot of those guys. on how they get people's attention. So I like on writing, I like The O Vaughn. Um I listen to a lot of True crime podcasts and true crime podcasts because they're supposed to be thrilling.

They are excellent at storytelling and setting up tension. And so I love uh there's this company called Parcast. They've got serial killers, unsolved murders, and I really love how they set up tension. What do you like? I like a lot of those same things you said. I I also like to consume them in a different way. So I think everybody likes Dave Chappelle or Luis CK. But You know, when I wanted to get good at this, I started to study what they do, not just

laugh and move on. Right. So I would There's there's an amazing, amazing thing. Uh what I think is the I have two two things I've learned from comedians that I think are the best examples of both storytelling. To win people on your side. and of apologizing. So the apologizing one is after Louis C K Got canceled.

He basically disappeared for like a year and a half. And he came back and he did his first show on stage. And there's a big question in my my head. It's like How is he going to address this? What's he say? Uh y you people should go listen to it in in full. But basically first he doesn't address it. He's he's doing his normal act.

And he pauses just in the middle of like Doing a thing and he's just like So should we talk about it? Yeah, we can talk about it. And he just brings it up like in the he makes it awkward'cause like What he did was like weird and pretty gross and bad, whatever.

And so he what he did was instead of Backpedaling and apologizing instead of denying Instead of trying to spin it as good, he was like Everybody's got a thing. Some people's things are weirder than others, but everybody's got a thing that they like.

Barack Obama knows my thing. He makes fun of himself like it's something Pokemon like My thing is so weird. That I liked and did. And everybody knows about it. And he kinda wins you on his side, like just the comedian the I idea of Even Obama knows my thing. Like everybody's got a thing, but it's secret usually.

And so then he goes and he and he there's more to it, but he does that. Chappelle does one win. When they took the Chappelle show, they put it on Netflix and he wasn't getting any royalties from it. He's like, Man, they're using my name. They're putting my show up there. I have a fight with these guys. And my fans are watching it and Netflix is winning and the the studios everyone's winning except for Chappelle from the Chappelle show, right?

So he goes on stage, he does this twenty minute thing called I think it's called unforgivable or unforgiven or something like that. I'm gonna do a full YouTube breakdown of this'cause it is To me it is like the master class in how do you tell a story to win people on your side. It is so well done. I I ca I can't even do a justice job. I do a full breakdown of like

What I think he did that was so smart and I have studied this thing. And I've been like, I can't believe like I would have never come up with this as a way to to make that point to get people at the end. to be totally on his side and willing to like boycott the show. How did he get people to do that? And the way he told the story Wait. He's not giving you a lecture. He's not just coming out and saying it outright.

He kinda baked it in at the end. but he set the setup was so strong that you there's only one outcome you could have. It's a maze that led you to one door, which is I'm on Dave's side. I'm gonna do exactly what this guy just said. And to me, when I saw that, I was like, that was the best example I've ever seen of using storytelling.

For mass persuasion. I uh I I I wanna go watch that. An another person I love. Have you ever read Joel on Software? Joel on Software dot com. Yeah, you're going from Chappelle to to Joel the maker of Trello. Nice. Dude. I know that that like sounds ridiculous. But he's this like nerdy guy who has started

I think Stack Overflow and Trello, all these like companies Dude, his blogs are very funny on the dorkyest topics. Like I don't even understand a lot of the topics because it's like heavy engineering. He does such a good job of writing on on these topics. I love what I one of my favorite things to do is find the top posts on Hacker News. Because typically these engineering types of people

Are particularly quirky. And they kinda like think outside the box in a weird way. Example of this. Some guy over The Kroger app sucks. Or something like that. And it was like the number fifteen thing on Hacker News. I click it. And it's this like

Ten thousand word blog post about Kroger's technology He's like, I like Kroger. Kroger's the biggest grocer in the world. And he's like they should be good at technology. They have all the money. And they have the customers, they have all the locations. Like they should not be getting their their you know their ass handed to them by Instacart and these other like startups.

He's like, look at this. You open the Kroger app and it doesn't like you swipe and it doesn't he's like the whole internet is if you swipe, it'll load more Stuff. For Kroger, if you want to swipe to see more products. It stops you. And there's this tiny button that says like next page. You have to go page after page. It doesn't just load.

He's like that's terrible. And he's like, Here's this other thing. And he wrote this like ten thousand word thing, like nerding out about the Kroger app. And I loved it. I read every word of it. I was like this is incredible nerdery right here. I love this thing. He's got a great opening line. He says, I'll start by saying I know nothing about the grocery industry. But what I do know about is tech and UX. Uh and so that's a great way to like kinda get people down your slippery slope, but this is a really good article. And I love it's not even that this is particularly good writing, but what I would say is that this is effective writing because

The best writing, the biggest lesson of it all. Is that You want your content. To just be you pushed out. I think everybody thinks they have to like become some

Character. in order for their content to hit, to work, to be to be a m to be a popular or whatever. And you could kinda do that and you might even get some popularity, but it'll never work in the long run, because it's not you being you and Uh, those people are attracted to something that's not your actual brain, your actual thoughts. It's you try to get it. You gotta let that freak flag fly, baby. You gotta let it fly.

And you know, that's how this podcast worked. It's like it started with This interview format trying to emulate it's almost like copyright'cause I emulating the Tim Ferriss show or how I built this or whatever. But then when it was just it was me pushed out. It's like I'm gonna get on here and we're gonna talk some days about Writing and some days about Mindset some days about this niche business that's uh, you know, tire rims in in North Carolina that's k crushing it.

It's like that's the shit I'm into. So that's the shit I talk about. That's the thing I'm most passionate about. That's the thing I can have I have the most interesting things to say about. And because of that, it's just me pushed out and then it's gonna attract people who really like that. And nobody can compete with me at that thing. Right? Like that that is a a personal monopoly. There is nobody else who could do what I'm doing as well as I'm doing it. You could do the same thing with your writing. So just take the stuff you're most interested in or nerd out about the most. And

Post that even if it seems like does anyone else really care about this? you'll find the people that care about it if you just consistently do that. Which is what this episode is. We're talking about a topic that you and I actually care a ton about. And I guess we're gonna find out if the rest care about it, but it will find those who do. Next time for the next what what are we calling this questionable advice.

This next time are we doing business plans, I think. Yeah, we're doing a a one on the next question of advice, which is We've kind of laugh at like, Oh, you don't need to write a business plan. That's archaic. But like We do do some fur version of planning before we just start a business. So we're gonna share what do we actually do in our planning before we start a business that we found is effective for us. So that'll be the next one.

Should we and we each got to plug our thing, although I think your thing is no longer a thing. Uh yeah, but I'm inspired by doing this. I'm like I wanna tell people about this and actually like'cause I have I have a course that does this, but I have a ton of examples. And the examples are actually what's valuable because You might hear some of the things we talked about, you're like, Okay, I gotta look that up, I gotta look that up look that up. But in the course I basically put it all there where I'm like

Here's the principle. Here's the example. You know, actually it's principle. You try it. Then it's here's the example of it done well, another example of it done well, another example of it done well.

Try it again. And literally, if you just do that, you'll get better as a writer. That's like a a structured form of practice. So my course was not so much me talking about it. It was that. And I'm like, if somebody actually wanted to learn that, you kinda need that. You kinda need to have those gold star examples and you need to have like a place to go practice. Like try it, learn it, and then try it again. So I just Googled Sean Perry Power Writing. It takes me to Maven and you can join the wait list. Is that where people should go? Yeah, but I'm gonna boot it back up. So I have this wait list. It's got I don't know, it's got a lot of people on it, I think, but I should I haven't done it in over like a year and a half.

Uh I kind of like retired from it, but This episode made me fired up about it. So maybe that'll fade and in an hour I'll be like nah, fuck that. I'm not doing it. But uh If not, I'll I'll do one more one more of these this year. And then I have a thing only on copy work.

I love copy work. It changed my life. I got this thing I made it like in a weekend two years ago just for shits and giggles'cause I It just I like it. It's fun for me. It's called copy that dot com. And it's my best versions of what I think people should write and copy.

And then you copy it by hand and I break down why each point is interesting. So you can check it out, copy that. It's got a ton of good reviews. You could actually I actually try to post all the negative reviews and the positive reviews. So you could see all the reviews. But copy that dot com. So Google Sean Purry Power Writing and you'll see his page on Maven.com. And then Copy that document. And we'll put them both in the description. So it'll be at the top of the description here. We'll put

the links to the to the things we talked about in this episode, because I think if you're listening to this, you're driving or you're walking. It's very hard. And we're usually not that good with show notes. But today All right, let's try to be good with the show notes where All the resources we talked about, let's make it easy. Um and put it put it there for people so that they can just scroll down and get it.

I haven't looked at this in so long. This was like five hundred last time I looked. That's crazy. You should do that again. Right. That's actually too many. I don't think I can teach that many people at once,'cause I'm pretty like I'm live with them and I'm like doing student feedback. So that would be I don't think that's even doable. I can't I I couldn't possibly do even I've never the biggest one we ever did was like four hundred, so eight thousand people is just not gonna work. You'll figure it out. Um is that the pod?

Spot. I feel like I can rule the world, I know I can be what I want to I put my law in it like my day's off On the road less travel never looking back

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