HIBT Lab! Babcock Ranch: Syd Kitson

Hello and welcome to How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. So extreme weather means we'll have to figure out how to build more resilient houses and towns. Last year when Hurricane Ian swept through Florida It caused over a hundred and ten billion dollars worth of damage.

Ian was one of the strongest hurricanes on record. And yet One community that took a direct hit from the hurricane was largely unscathed. It's called Babcock Ranch and the five thousand people who live there rode out the storm without ever losing electricity.

or even the internet. And the reason Babcock Ranch did so well Well, it was designed that way. The town is the brainchild of a real estate developer named Sid Kitson. His story of how he built the town actually starts back in the mid-1980s, when he left a career as a professional football player for the Green Bay Packers.

It was a very different game back in those days. I was the third round draft choice. And I made forty thousand dollars my first year. Hm. So It wasn't like ya you were living this uh lavish lifestyle. By the time I got out of the game I had

Actually five seasons. I actually I went through six training camps. Hm. And think about this for a moment. So six years really didn't make a lot of money through that that time frame. Yeah. And then I'm six years behind all of my peers. So when you went into the business world, all of sudden I'm starting

you know, six years behind and and trying to catch up. Yeah,'cause you're you were twenty seven years old or something like that. You're y you you'd had five years in the NFL, which a lot of people might be like, Oh my God, this is amazing. I'm sure a lot of people may have said that to you at the time, but Your peers you graduated with had five years of work experience at that point. Certainly there were there were Things from

athletics and football that were incredibly helpful to me in my career. I mean incredibly helpful. But on the other hand Uh it it just didn't translate in into a business career uh if you wanted to get into it. And and again, during the off seasons, you're training, you're getting ready for for the for that coming season, didn't have a lot of time to work or to gain skills. That you needed uh for when you uh were out of the game.

A a lot of guys will go into coaching. they'll go to high school or college or if they're they can they'll you know get a job on the coaching staff of a of a major team or or maybe see if they can get to television. Did you ever think that you would do something like that, or were you kinda set on figuring in in business. I was dead set on going into business. And I wanted to work for myself. Uh one of the things football taught me was I I didn't want my life in somebody else's hands. So that entrepreneurial

Spirit was was born right out of uh Right out of the NFL. Yeah. You know, I was one of those guys that if somebody said, Here's my car, give me a call, I I gave him a call. And I loved learning about what successful people did and how they got there and their stories. Everyone had this incredible story. And I and I learned very quickly. That overnight success thing doesn't happen very often. You hear about it a lot, but it just it just doesn't happen very often. It's not real. No.

And this this this uh real estate uh uh guy from from Winston Salam started driving me around. And and I'll never forget it because he goes You see these two this house I bought? Well I fixed it up and I sold it and then he he just kinda took me through his journey. And then he started to show me some of these large subdivisions he had built. And the excitement in his voice and looking at these things he had created, looking at the people who are living in his homes and in his neighborhoods or or working in his buildings. I just I remember thinking that's w that's exactly what I wanna do. Now getting from point A to point B was a whole nother

Whole other story, but um that was really inspiration. So I actually started out in New Jersey. In nineteen Eighty six. And guy, if you remember

Nineteen eighty six, it was things were flying. Yeah. And uh you know, people were were uh buying homes, they were flipping them and uh And that's what you were doing? You were you were buying homes and fixing them up? No, I actually I I teamed up with a couple of uh local uh business leaders. And we actually started to go out and buy some property to subdivide. So I got right into the development business almost from the beginning.

It you know, it's really interesting. I think most entrepreneurs or or or businessmen they they There's sort of a moment. in in their lives where they discover what it is they want to do. And I think it was nineteen ninety three. Where I I was up in New Jersey and I saw this failed property and there was a sign out front and it was a a golf course community that was trying to get off the ground.

I made a cold call. to the uh owners. And uh and I'll make a very long story very short. It convinced them to let me manage and operate their property. Soup the nuts, build the houses, manage the golf. replat it, uh redesign it, build the clubhouse, do all those things.

And um It turned out to be a big success. I had and it was a great experience. And I remember thinking, Oh, this this is life changing because this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. I want to build master plan communities. And then in nineteen ninety five. We had the opportunity to uh take over a a a project that was failing in Florida.

And And really enjoyed uh what Florida was all about. And the opportunities down in Florida were so much greater than up in the north east. Um where prices were going up, you're competing with builders and

At the time I had con kinda changed over from building houses to being a true developer where I was creating places versus building homes. And and Florida just seemed like a great place to make that happen. So Uh I'm obviously we're gonna be talking about the the

property that you would eventually focus on. Um but while you were involved in developing some of these properties, did you begin to develop a perspective on What you thought was Maybe Wrong with them or not right with them, or that you wanted to improve on. I mean I'm curious

If you start to think, you know, maybe I don't know, maybe g a golf course here isn't efficient, or maybe this isn't a really great way to I'm just not judging it, I'm just curious. No, you're you're you're spot on. It was

frustrating to constantly be trying to work through other people's problems. And really what it wanted to do was Grab a blank sheet of paper a

piece of property that we could do right from the beginning rather than Taking over property. That Had problems. And the other thing

And you know, this probably goes back to when I was young is I had a a deep appreciation for the environment. I spent A very significant amount of my time. hiking through the Adirondacks, the Appalachians, the Smokies and spent so much time uh You know, camping and uh

Just really uh appreciating The environment and what it's about. And So that sounds strange when I'm sitting here telling you really I'm an environmentalist, yet here I am a developer, yet I think it's a perfect combination because what you're saying is a hundred percent right, and that is

When you build on the land. You create impacts. And So we wanted to set out and prove that

A new town, a new development, a new city. could work hand in hand with the environment. And When you look at uh you know, Florida as an example, a thousand people a day are moving down to the state of Florida. Boy, we better get this right.'Cause if we don't

You know, we're we're the very thing that people are coming down for is the great water that we have, there's the this these great natural resources. That we have. If they disappear Are people really gonna want to come to Florida? I I don't I don't think so.

So we need to pay attention to that and we need to prove that we can make this right. Alright, I guess you come across this you know, an opportunity to purchase this large piece of land called the Babcock Ranch property. And this was owned by one family for like almost a hundred years, and I guess the state of Florida tried to buy it but couldn't. They want to preserve it.

And you and and some of your partners had an opportunity to to buy it. With a different plan. What what the story is. And w how did you come across this? Yeah, it it it's an unlikely story. Um but you're right, the state of Florida really wanted to buy this. They were trying to create this uh wildlife corridor from Lake Okeechobee to Charlotte Harbor.

It was ninety one thousand acres and they negotiated with the family, but the family would only sell the stock. And the state could only buy the assets. By law. I think that's Florida state law. They were not let you buy. Right. Okay. Exactly. Exactly. So they were at an impasse as to how they could make this happen. So the family said, Okay, we get it, so we're gonna put it back on the market. Which they did.

And there were people from all over the world coming in trying to buy this this land, but all of the offers that were coming in and they were significant. They wanted to build on the entire parcel, all ninety one thousand acres. They wanted to put in Thousands and thousands of ranchettes. And you want to talk about the definition of sprawl. Well there it is. And you're talking four or five acre parcels just spread out all over all ninety one thousand acres.

We came in and we we talked to the family and you know it's 91,000 acres. That's 143 square miles, by the way. It's a massive. It's massive. And so when you first see this it's it's daunting. I mean you're you're it's it's overwhelming. But what a beautiful piece of property in a and really a just a fantastic location. Talk to the family and said, Look, we have a different vision for this land. We want to preserve eighty percent of it.

We want to sell that to the state. And then we're gonna take the remaining twenty percent, we're gonna build a new city, and that new city is gonna be the most sustainable new city that's ever been built. Now this is back in two thousand and five. Yeah. Most people didn't even know what sustainability meant. And and so I'm I'm trying to convince this family that this is great for their legacy and it's great for Florida. Great for South West Florida and we can set an example for how to do it right.

And you know what, to their credit We were not the highest offer. But they they went with us. And they gave us one year. to do what would normally take five, maybe seven years to do.

We had to negotiate with the state of Florida. The sale of seventy three thousand acres. That normally takes many, many, many years, but and uh you know, what happened was was uh Governor Jeb Bush uh at the time really wanted to preserve this land. And people don't realize, you know, he's known as one of the great governors here because of his passion for education, but he also um was really uh uh adamant about purchasing as much land as he could uh for environmental purposes and he he wanted to buy this land.

I went in and met with him and um I had only met with met met him one other time, so he didn't know me and I didn't know him, but I I told him this vision I had for Babcock Ranch. And I said, And and we'll sell you seventy three thousand acres and we'll negotiate uh a price and we'll go through all this and and here's like I just gave him the whole story. And he looked at me and he said, Look, if you're crazy enough to do it, I'll support you. And and that's how it started.

We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, more from Sid Kitson about turning an undeveloped plot of land in Florida into a solar-powered, climate resilient community. Stay with us, I'm Guy Roz and you're listening to how I built this lab. Welcome back to How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Roz, and today I'm speaking with Sid Kitson, founder and CEO of Kitson and Partners. It's the real estate development firm behind Babcock Ranch. It's a climate resilient, solar powered community in Southwest Florida. So all right, so let's talk about What the

Vision was because, you know, now you've got this land to develop and a developer's gonna, you know, b traditionally you wanna build lots of boxy Square buildings to pack as many people in as you can to get maximum amount of money per square foot and you wanna have you know, retail locations and centers so people can are attracted and to go there and All kinds of things.

Totally different. Well how are you describing it? You know, Building a new city, as they said, i is is complex. Uh and when you try and be innovative It's it's it's even more difficult. But the vision was was very clear. I remember you know when we first announced that we were gonna buy

Badcock Ranch and and then we had a press conference. I said, I want this to be the most sustainable new city In the world. And a reporter raised uh his hand and said and said, uh Mr Kitson, what does that mean? What does sustainability mean? This is in two thousand and five. That's how far things have come. There were no iPhones, no iPads. It was just a

Just a different time. But we laid out a vision. One that was uh To prove that That the environment And a new town, a new city can work hand in hand. And we put together these seven initiatives. And this is this this is really the heart and soul.

of what Badcock Ranch is. We say we're gonna focus on the environment, which mean we're gonna preserve the wetlands. We're gonna we're we're gonna make the wetlands part of this great place, rather than taking a bulldozer and and covering them over. They were gonna be part of the landscape of Babcock Ranch. Energy was critical to us. We wanted to be the first solar powered town in America. And back in Again, two thousand and five, people were looking at us going, solar energy? You're gonna have this town powered by solar energy?

We wanted to focus on education and transportation and technology and health and wellness and and a big one for us from Day one was story. So we took all those initiatives. Yeah we had And and and got after every single one of them.

And and really started to say, okay, how can we do different? How can we be innovative? How can we be better? And how can we do this the right way? How can we take the impacts From you know, Building this new city. and and make this this pl a great place to live.

But again, one that had a minimal impact, if zero impact. On the environment. And that's something that we want to leave our kids and our grandkids It's something that uh I think we've been able to achieve. Alright, this was gonna be uh a long

long process'cause I think you closed the deal in two thousand and six. But the first People wouldn't move in until uh twelve years later.'Cause you gotta develop the land and you gotta build start building these um you know, housing units and and

retail spots. Let let's talk about the location first. So it's about Ten, fifteen miles outside of Fort Myers, Florida. Exactly. Um, and so it's about thirty miles inland from Florida. Um

There are a number of challenges, right, building anything in Florida, uh for obvious reasons. Very few places in Florida are are very, you know, high, right there at sea level. Yep. Um It's g it's pr prone to hurricanes, huge storms. Um high water table. Um And so I guess the first decision you made was let's not build it right on the coast. Let's go thirty miles.

Inland. Key to everything that we're doing. Mm. During this last hurricane people go, Wow, we're just so lucky. thirty feet above sea level. So there's no look in

Not at all. I was very purposeful. We wanted to be above the storm surge. We wanna be certain That uh during a hurricane

that uh that our residents that we all be safe. uh that it wouldn't flood and that a storm surge wouldn't be uh wouldn't be an issue. And So Picking that location, as you said, was very purposeful and very important to us.

This the the piece of land that you uh once you set aside the you know, the the state of Florida bought a a big chunk of it to preserve and then you were left with about eighteen thousand acres. That's bigger than Manhattan. And and so that was what you were going to develop and build a town that will eventually Um

So you're building you know, you're gonna build Thousands of units. I mean it's you know, basically from I don't know, April to November. It can get it can be

pretty unbearable outside at times in Florida. Let's talk about how what does sustainability mean, for example, in cooling those homes. It it meant that you had to find a form of energy Um that was renewable. And the obvious answer was solar.

Yeah. And when I first thought about this and and we wanted to create the first solar power town. in in United States. I thought that would be welcome news. And this was gonna be really easy. And again, and I'm sure you've heard this from so many of the other people, innovation is just hard.

And there's so many people when you innovate that don't want you to be successful, that don't want you to could impact uh their bottom line, if you will. So We

We we had this idea, okay, we wanted to be solar power, but how are we gonna do that? Well, we knew we had a partner with the local utility. So it was Florida power and light. And I remember. I'm thinking, well, how am I gonna meet the CEO of Florida Power and Light?

And uh I I really didn't know anybody over there or didn't have a way to get an introduction. So I I asked a few people, you know, how could I how can I meet with this uh with the CEO. Well it turns out he was um appearing before a subcommittee up in Tallahassee. So I say, Well, you know what? I'm gonna go up to Tallahassee. I'm gonna wait till when he finishes.

And I'm gonna go ahead and and when he's on his way out, I'm gonna I'm gonna see if I can grab him and tell him my vision for Babcock Ranch, this first solar powered town. So I got up to Tallahassee and And he's up there and he does his uh speech and whatever he's talking about to the subcommittee. He comes out and he's finishes and he jumps into a an elevator. So I jump in with them and this is the true elevator speech.

And in and in two floors I I I told him everything we're trying to do. at Babcock Ranch and how we want it to be the first solar powered town and is there somebody we could meet with to uh to talk about how we can make that a reality. And he said, You know what? That sounds like a an interesting idea. I'll have somebody call ya.

So I left there wondering if if that was actually going to happen or not, but sure enough the next day Um one of the uh a guy by the name of Uric Solaji gave me a call. Uh, from Florida Power and Light. We got together And we started talking about how we can make Badcock Ranch the first solar powered town. By the way, we spent eight years

Eight years. Putting that together. and uh working through all of the regulatory issues But we're able to get it done. And today we have 150 megawatts. Just to put that in perspective, that's 700,000 panels. On eight hundred and forty acres.

And to me You know, in order to be sustainable You've gotta find the right energy source and we were able to do that. Yeah. Um

Let's just talk about the How you I mean creating a new

Town. near a major I mean Fort Myers is, you know twenty minutes away, but You know, you're not near Miami or Orlando or Tampa. You're you're you're not super close to those places. So How do you build

In a let's say. kind of an off the beaten path place. How do you build a pl a town? that is gonna be attractive to to families, which is really what you need if you want to build a sustainable town. You need You need families, you need kids, you need schools, right? Yep. You you got it. And and so think of all the things that you have in your town right now. Well, we had a

Build all that from the beginning from scratch. And then the other thing we did 'Cause we wanted to be multi generational. This is really important. We didn't want to be a place where it was just four empty nesters. Right. We wanted to have a true multi generational

community. And in Florida you gotta be really careful because it can you can easily default to just wanting to have uh retirees. You got it. Exactly. So how do you prevent that? Well T you have to have two things. One is jobs, but more importantly, a school. So we started with a school. We built a school at Batcock Ranch before anybody lived here.

I remember we we had uh we built a school that had a hundred and fifty six seats. And my murder partner and I were going, Gosh, I hope we just lose a little bit of money here. We we were hoping to fill half. Of the of the seats. And when it was announced that we had a public charter school, it was uh uh uh when it was published in the paper.

We immediately filled all one hundred fifty six seats. And we had a three hundred person waiting list. And and and so that sounds great. We here you know, our school is is gonna thrive and that's all good, but the mistake we made was we now didn't have any seats for people moving into Babcock Ranch. So Big mistake. Uh so the we we

quickly pivoted and we actually built a brand new school that could handle um all the all the uh students and we'd have students for uh for those moving in um into Babcock ranch, but it is the heart and soul, the heartbeat of of Babcock Ranch. We're incredibly proud of it. And you know, Babcock is a home town. It's a real town. You know, I I knew

When you drive by the school during the day, you see hundreds of bicycles out front. And when the bell goes off at three o'clock, the kids come running out, jump on their bikes and they're going fishing, they're going to the you know, the playgrounds, they're going wherever they're going, they just scatter all over the place. And it's really a throwback to to kinda what it was like when I grew up. Yeah, I mean

The idea for Babcock Ranch was to attract a wide variety of O of residents. You've got Condos that are about a quarter of a million dollars all the way up to four million dollar homes. So you've got, you know, a r a broad range of homes. Um But is is there a world where I mean

You know Th there are there are different views about density, right? There are arguments that developers um and and sort of quote unquote sort of smart city advocates argue that, you know, people should live in densely populated areas. Even if it's outside of a city, you know, it makes more sense for people to live in apartment buildings. But that's actually the best, most efficient use of land and

It's the best for the environment. I mean, is that In in your view, um, is there Is there room for that in a p you know in a in a development like Babcock Ranch where you've got Maybe some apartment buildings there. Well, we do have apartments going up right now.

Um we have st four story apartments, uh Going up. And So I I I do believe that is part of the answer with a caveat. And that is making certain that there's a lot of open space around it.

And so it's not a matter of just building dents. It's combined with That preservation of land. So Tell me I mean n once it's fully

Populated. I know one of the ideas was to create a a an environment where people don't really have to commute. They don't have to drive to Four Myers or to Tampa or wherever or Naples for jobs. That that the that there will be jobs there in in the community.

How how will you attract businesses companies to build office space, headquarters. industry there. It is important. Yeah. So people don't have to commute

And to be truly sustainable. That is one of the You know? key initiatives. So you're a hundred percent right. And we are attracting uh businesses here. As a matter of fact, a lot of the people here that uh that moved here uh opened up businesses here. And Half of the people here work from home.

That's a and that's something we didn't expect. The number of people that actually uh don't don't leave because they they work from their homes. They have a gigabit. Uh and they so it's very convenient and easy for them to uh to do that. And uh as we grow, we have six million square feet of commercial space.

And uh we we've already built uh s you know, several hundred thousand square feet and and are uh about to start several hundred thousand more feet. Now Will they be large headquarters? you know, that world's changing. Sure. So we're we're looking at how office space is starting to change and how we can make that sustainable. So a lot of people who who um who work here uh will live here Uh and we will continue to work with uh other companies to to move uh to move here. We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, more from Sid Kitson about building the communities of the future.

Stay with us, I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to how I built this lab. Welcome back to How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz, and my guest today is Sid Kitson, founder of Babcock Ranch, an energy independent community in Florida that's designed to withstand natural disasters like hurricanes and floods. one of the crucial ideas here, in addition to building a a new city, was Um to make it resilient. to the elements. And so

That means that it had to be built in a certain way. to withstand a category five hurricane. Um So what what tell me what that means. How do you make a Category five hurricane.

resilient city. You know, it starts from day one when you start planning it. So we went back and looked at at maps. From the nineteen forties. A Babcock Ranch.

Because what we wanted to do was to have all of the water go into the natural flowways. of the land. So in in and in order to do that, you really have to identify because over the years there's farming, they've they put in canals, they drain the land, but you have to find where the the natural flowways of where that water wants to go. And we f we did. We went we went all the way back and then we designed around those.

And we kept all the wetlands in place. And one of things that one of the things I try and tell people is Mother Nature is gonna put that water where it wants to put that water. You can do all you want. But but the Mother Nature's gonna win every single time.

So we we said let's work with the nature. Let's not work against it. And and Sure enough, we found those natural flowways. We preserved all those areas. And we use it as part of our water management system. So we have this water management system that has natural flowways

And then all the wetlands that we kept within Badcock Ranch. We we kept the wetlands and it It's beautiful, by the way,'cause it's part of who we are. But uh we also uh added more wetlands. And these were these store and and uh take on an enormous uh amount of water. And then we have a lake system. And and our lake system actually has a a smart water management system.

Where It the it a computer can predict what the weather's gonna be like in seven to ten days and then regulate the amount of water that's in that lake. So We got this great water management system.

We have native plant materials that are are are used to the these these windy conditions and these wet conditions and they they serve they survive uh better. Um so l let's Talk about September twenty two, Hurricane Een. This was One of the most deadly hurricanes in Florida since the thirties, uh hundred and fifty people died. It was a category four storm. You had

a hundred plus mile an hour sustained winds for like eight, nine hours with Hundred and fifty mile. I mean, That's crazy for houses, buildings, trees. To withstand eight, nine hours of hundred mile hour winds

First of all, were you there at the time? I I was there. Um You were in you were h in your house? I was in my house. And and what did you do? Did you put like boards on your window? Did you did you like sit in your living room, just tell me what what were you doing? At first, um, when it first started, I was uh

kinda going around the community, believe it or not, trying to see how how we were performing and then couple of the gusts came in and actually put my car on two wheels so I figured I'd better get back to my home. Yeah. But I have impact glass. So I was confident that my home uh could withstand uh the the winds uh that were

That we're we're expecting. When that storm came over Cuba. And you you remember this, it then hit the Gulf as a category one and then it just exploded into a cat strong category four hurricane. I remember sitting in my home And uh hearing the uh weather person say this category four storm is heading right for Badcock Ranch. So if you're a Badcock ranch, you need to take uh

necessary uh precautions. Well. And that's when it started and the reality of this Guy was really unbelievable. Because I promised

Over five thousand of my neighbors. That they could Shelter safely at home. And all the work and all the things that we had planned on for the last uh

Ten years to prepare for this. It was now about to be tested. This was it. You c this is it. You can plan all you want. You can do all the things that you think are right.

You can spend the extra money. We spent millions of extra dollars to to harden Babcock Ranch. Make sure that you know the electricity would stay on. But you don't know until it actually happens. And very candidly. If you had asked me that I thought we were gonna be tested this early, I you know, I I would never have have said that would happen. And sure enough

Um it hit for eight straight hours. Hundred plus mile an hour winds. And it was when the when it got to that one fifty It was like a freight train running through your house. I I can't even imagine'cause I've just been through an atmospheric river here in Northern California and we got occasional gusts of like seventy miles an hour. That was crazy. But a hundred and fi I mean.

That's like that's like a Ferrari. Racing Past your home. For eight hours in a row. Yes, and it think about this, so you're you're we're the only place in southwest Florida that didn't lose electricity.

So you're watching it live on TV. Wow. You're seeing this storm sit on top of you. We are on the eastern side, the nasty side of that storm of the eye of the storm. And just watching it sit on us. And and was your house shaking? Yes, there was yeah, it was it actually got pretty spooky'cause I I have these sliders and they they they bent in. They actually started to bow in. And I'm on a lake, so we I actually had waves crashing that right up to the side of my home.

Uh it looked like you were at the ocean. And sure enough, uh the the force of the wind actually took the water underneath the sliders and it made this uh screeching sound. It no I didn't get a lot of water. It was just a you know just a little bit, but it was it was very eerie. And you told everybody in the community, hey, you can stay at home. Yep. You can stay at home, stay. Don't go outside, but you're just gonna be inside for eight hours. It's still nerve wracking. It's'cause it's basically a hurricane is like I mean It's kinda like a

Giant tornado. Just but but You know, For eight hours. It just wears you out. And I'm thinking about fifteen years of my life, uh twenty years actually of my life invested in this town and all the planning, all the things that we've done, all the people that were involved in creating this place, all the neighbors, my partners,

homeowners. It was just It was just all coming together. And it went through the night. And I remember just waiting for the next morning for the sun to come up and didn't sleep at all, obviously.

And um it wasn't until the next morning that you you really had any idea But you know when I got up. the next morning and drove the property. Drove over four or five hours just meeting with neighbors and other than maybe some shingles on some of the homes. There's very little damage. Well

And and what about flooding? I mean, how how are you able to mitigate The flooding is w is there a drainage system that was designed on the property to mitigate that? We did. We we we used the natural flowways uh that drained right into um uh the these areas were you know for St. But also these natural flowways. And we also had a lake system. This is really interesting.

We we actually told the homeowners that In the unlikely event. that one of your lakes overflowed. They're designed to do that. And it will it'll it'll actually Drain between your homes.

into the roads and then off the property. Now we never got close to that. I think we still had We had plenty of uh room left uh in terms of capacity. But uh we even have a fail safe if there is a there is a a catastrophic rain event. that uh that it that that goes beyond uh what we could even have imagined.

So now I mean looking at at what you've done with Babcock Ranch. Obviously this is a Well planned development. Um and

Building. with sort of future sustainability in mind. And now you've got you're gonna in the next year or so you'll have up to ten thousand people living there. Um How do you I mean is this something that you can build And replicate

Anywhere in the United States or is this something that has to be done in a very specific location. In other words, could you just like do this, you know, on the New Jersey shore or or Probably you know, if we're thinking about the future of climate change and increasing heavy

damaging storms probably Even with these mitigation. Technologies that you You've put in there. Uh probably still want to build it.

away from from the ocean. Yeah, I I I would agree with that. Um I I think that's sort of a two part question. Uh one People are gonna want to Live. On the water.

It's just human nature. So w how do we how do we make that safe? I and I think That's that's the tricky part. If you're gonna be on the coast, you have to build in a way that is resilient and can handle the wind lows, can handle the water and the and the

uh in the storm surge that that that can happen. So To rebuild a house. The way that it was built. twenty years ago is a is in my mind, is a is a big mistake.

'Cause these storms are gonna happen again. It it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. So If you're gonna build along The coast. We prefer not to.

Uh, we want to stay above the storm surge, but if you're going to You have to build in a resilient way and Then you have to take a look at the infrastructure. And make sure that is also resilient. And I I've talked to

people all over the world actually asking us how we did it and One of the things we talk I've talked to'em about is look, start somewhere and And uh start with the infrastructure. Yeah and hardening your infrastructure. And I mean it's sort of you have this opportunity to really do radical things there. Like for example You know, I'm I'm here in the Bay Area, so there's this is not weird here to see a a an autonomous vehicle driving around. You do see them, you see c uh humanless

Cars. Driving around the streets. Um but there you you actually had uh for a while, I think you had like a an autonomous vehicles, a shuttle working. Um is that part of the vision to to to try these things that might be s sort of untested Elsewhere. Oh when yes, and we're doing it. We have uh so we we are gonna reintroduce our autonomous vehicles, we stopped that during Covid. It's gonna be like a shuttle, right? Yes. Yeah.

Um But we have something called innovation way here, where we Got the three top builders in the country to build homes with technology in them that's not being used today. And to test it, see how it works, and then ultimately, hopefully

implement that into the homes that they're building. And you can actually tour those homes here at Babcock Ranch. And now we're doing innovation way two point oh, which is gonna be materials. We're looking for materials and and building techniques.

that are are more environmentally responsible. Uh and you know, for cement, for example, uh you know, creates a lot of carbon. And how do we so how do we come up with different building systems that that um that are are more sustainable. And hopefully uh build uh homes that uh that feature those materials. So We are a living laboratory and we are proud of that and we're gonna continue to do that. Alright, so what happens when

What is done? I mean, do you You're the you know, kind of founder of this this thing. Are you the I don't know. Honorary mayor, are you the the autocrat, dictator? Like where do you where do you go from there, Sid?

Well, you know, I th that's a great question. Um I do live here. I do have a home here. And I I I uh I probably spend uh seventy percent of my my time here. Um and really enjoy it. So you know, hopefully uh I'll I'll I'll be able to um

uh enjoy everything that we've created here for many years to come. I don't uh want to be mayor. But um one thing we're talking about is is is the form of government here. What can we do To make sure that Babcock Ranch uh maintains um the the vision that we've had for it from the beginning. I don't have the answer to that, by the way.

But you know, eventually it will incorporate. It'll be its own town and it will have a may you know, whether it's a mayor or whatever form of government that ultimately is is here. But I think I think for for me and for my partners and for everybody. I think the most important thing is is is to It did not only do this the right way. But to hopefully and I think it's happening.

Have others just copy what we're doing, emulate what we're doing. I've certainly had enough phone calls of people wanting, you know, to To to get if you will the playbook. Uh for how we've done it. And And uh I I hope that ultimately becomes the legacy.

Sick Kitson, thanks so much. Thank you very much, Guy. Enjoyed it. Hey, thanks so much for listening to How I Built This Lab. Please make sure to follow the show wherever you listen on any podcast app. Usually there's just a follow button right at the top, so you don't miss any new episodes, and it is entirely free. If you want to contact our team, our email address is hibt at id.wondery.com. This episode was produced by Chris Messini with editing by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was James Willits. Our music was composed by Ramteen Arablui. Our production team at How I Built This includes Alex Chung, Carla Esteves, Casey Herman, JC Howard, Liz Metzger, Sam Paulson, Carrie Thompson, and Elaine Coates.

Niva Grant is our supervising editor, Beth Donovan is our executive producer. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening. How I built this. people say I don't I'll never live in California, I'm afraid of earthquakes. I'm afraid of alligators in my backyard, but you know, hey Everyone's got their thing. We we we do have a few friends that uh that float around and uh

And entertain people for sure.

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