Blitzscaling bourbon: How Fawn Weaver built Uncle Nearest whiskey

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Join us at masters of scale dot com slash apply twenty six. That's mastersofscom slash apply. Twenty six. This is the thing about Bourbon. Венір стартing a new brand.

It's a very difficult thing. Бизпінь мани To lay down product. That you cannot sell for four years. So by lay down, put it in the barrel. And I think the first year we laid down like maybe 10,000.

Barrels. Startup costs aren't the only reason that the whiskey business is a risky business. Fawnweaver launched her spirits company, Uncle Nearest Premium Whiskey, in 2017. She faced entrenched nearly monopolistic competition from international conglomerates, scads of regulations, reams of red tape, and an industry unaccustomed to seeing a black woman in charge. But Fawn was on a mission. A mission into which she had poured nearly every single penny she had.

There were абсолютні таймс ве. Account is overdrawn. It is so close to zero. We had Nothing. That we could call our own.

But Fan was so determined. Because her bourbon was about more than just business. She wanted to lift a brilliant black distiller out of the footnotes of history. And into the spotlight. Now she's doing something remarkable.

Split scaling a bourbon brand. Uncle Neerest is valued at more than a billion dollars. You gotta have incredible talent at every position. Huge push. There are fires burning when you're going out. Can you believe it? Such an idiot. And then you go back to this is totally gonna be amazing. There are so many easy ways. I have no idea what to do. Sorry, we made a mistake. But you have to time it right. Oops. Working out of a free bedroom apartment. We haven't made just how you do it.

This is masters of scale. I'm Jeff Berman. Your host.

Fawn Weaver is using every ounce of her experience as a marketer, an investor, and an author. to fuel the rise of Uncle Nearest premium whiskey. She never meant to get into the beverage business. Her obsession with the story of Uncle Neerest started as an idea for a book. Fun. Welcome to Masters of Scale. Thank you for having me. Uh pleasure to have you.

I want to start by having you take us back to your fortieth birthday. You decided to take a trip. Yeah. Some people want to go to a beach or a mountain. Yeah. You chose to go to Lynchburg, Tennessee. Why? Because that is where the story of Fair Screen was. And I had read on the cover of the New York Times International Edition the headline was Jack Daniels Embrace is a hidden ingredient, help from a slave, the credit for being Jack Daniels teacher and mentor was given to a white man by the name of Dan Caw, a preacher in a distiller. And the community believed that it was actually an enslaved man on his property nearest Green.

That was the actual teacher, that was the actual mentor. So that's what the story Was about I think the reason why it struck a chord with me is up until that point I was almost forty years old. I couldn't tell you a single ubiquitous American brand Where we could say there was an African American at the start.

There's Zero chance that we weren't at the beginning of a lot of these companies, but we weren't allowed to patent. We weren't allowed to trademark. And so we have no way of knowing What our role was. And and so that intrigued me.

The internet decided almost instantaneously with the headline and the photo That Jack Daniel was a slave owner. He sold the recipe, he had the slave. Mm. That was not a part of the story. It was not even insinuated. But that is the story that social media Ran with

I thought the social media had the story wrong. And so I ordered a book. Called Jack Daniels Legacy. I expect that maybe in the book it would refer to an African American or an enslaved man. I never expected to see nearest.

mentioned by name. And I was shocked that from the very early pages Nearest Green, his boys George Green and Eli Green. were mentioned throughout the book. Jack Daniels the book is dedicated to him. The people that are interviewed in the book are all the people who knew him best. His nephew who he turned the distillery over to four years before he passes away.

His great nephews that then took over the distillery after that. Just people who were either touched him or one degree of separation from him. And Nair's Green and their and his boys were mentioned more times than Jack's own family. So this is a hidden figure story where the hidden figures are actually hiding in plain sight. Where the hidden figures aren't hidden at all. Right. Okay. So you you you read the story, you order the book, you devour the book. It's still a leap to say, I want to go to Lynchburg for my fortieth and dive into this. So unless you know me. Okay. Well tell us. So so for me, every Sunday I always take that time off. And the way that I

transition from work brain. is I will find a subject and it could be something that I read in a newspaper. And I would literally do what my husband calls go into a rabbit hole. And that's something that I just have always loved to do. I love to do these deep dives into to history or just different things that I learn about. And so For me to decide I want to do a deep, deep dive for my birthday. So what happens when you make this trip? Really what I want to do was spend time in the library.

Because when I was doing research, what kept coming up, every photo that involved an African American from Lynchburg, Tennessee, it all said Moore County library. So I just figured I was going to go into Moore County Library and just flip through lots and lots and lots of photos. When I got to the library a woman walked in after I told the assistant librarian what I was looking for and A woman came in and and as it turned out second eldest descendant of Jack Daniel and After I shared with her why I was there? I told her that I did not believe that her ancestor was what they were saying he was. I believe that the story between Jack and Nairs was a story of love, honor, and respect. I shared with her what research I had done from afar that led me to that conclusion.

And she said, I want to help you. Now I just wanna pause for a second because it is extraordinary what happens when we start with presumption of good intent. Absolutely. And we build a bridge before we we begin a conversation about anything that might be harder. Yeah. Um and what a stunning moment in that library. Um, and and maybe serendipity, but may maybe providence that she came in and you had this conversation the way you had it. Yes. Extraordinary. It absolutely is. And and what she said before she left, and mind you, she was only in the library, maybe fifteen minutes. She said, You know the the property where Jack grew up, where everything happened

It's for sale. You ended up buying this land. We did. Which was the original home of Jack Daniel Distillery number seven. Fawn and her husband bought the property. More than three hundred acres in Tennessee.

They were sold on the idea when they discovered that part of the home was a pristine time capsule from the early distillery days. The wallpaper was hand painted roses and behind the wallpaper was the insulation. Which was newspaper. And every single newspaper that was used for installation was written October tenth or october eleventh, eighteen ninety eight. Wow.

Then you went into the boys room, and someone was barrel stencil practicing all over the walls. Fawn moved to Lynchburg and went into an even deeper research rabbit hole. She unearthed piles of old photos and historical documents. She also interviewed countless relatives of nearest green. Along the way, she heard a common request from those relatives.

The best way to memoріaliz their ancestor. Put his name on a bottle. Fawn couldn't shake the idea. She started learning everything she could about how to start a whiskey brand. And quickly that to put it mildly,

It's a complicated industry. Many of those complications date back to the prohibition era. The entire time of prohibition, the mob is running. The liquor business. Then at the end of it.

The politicians in their pockets have this brilliant idea. Well, we should make sure the mob is never allowed to run the liquor business again. So let's create a middle tier. So that the suppliers can never be the buyers. The person who's making it can't also own a restaurant, they can't own a bar, they can't sell directly to the people who are buying. Liquor. So there's someone who can make it and someone who can sell it to the customer directly, and then there's someone in the middle who's distributing it. Correct. Yeah. Now here's the challenge though.

Is that That happened, but somehow every single person in that second tier. His name Billy Joey. Louis

Like Everybody. And now all of these generations later, that's not changed. And so it is a really difficult business to get into Because there's a lack of familiarity of both women in in power and business in the industry. And people of colour.

Overall you've got the intersection of both. And I have the intersection of both. And so imagine coming into this industry and thinking, Okay Well, I'll just you know, take it straight to the consumer. Right. No, no, you won't. Right. Absolutely you won't. And so the challenge with that second tier. Their bills are paid for.

By big guys. And that's a huge challenge because you could create the best whiskey in the world. But if you can't persuade a distributor to actually sell your product to to the end customer, exactly. You've got nothing. You have nothing. So what did you do to figure out one, how do we make this? And then two, how do we crack that distribution? Yeah. So the how do we make this was quite fortuitous. The realtor. Who we bought the home from.

She said, Well if you ever decide to put his name on a bottle, I'll come out of retirement to make sure you get it right. Wow. So as it turned out Real estate was basically her second career. She spent her entire life In the family business. And when she left Jack Daniel Distillery, she was the head of whiskey operations.

So she knew exactly how to get the product right and how to get that in the bottle. So That piece wasn't the issue. It is the cost and the influence of being able to get your product on.

shelves. And so the process that I took To do this. I don't know that I would recommend it for anybody. But was very risky. So in our industry, the norm is you start off in a single state. And then within about seven years, if you're able to build traction in that single state.

Then you'll try to get into maybe four States that connect. to that one state. So everything is still touching. Everything you can still kind of drive to it in a day. Right. Type of thing. And then from there, you know, hopefully after about twenty five years, you've built something. In my instance I thought

There's never been a woman or a person of color to ever succeed in this industry. So I can't take the path. That they're suggesting because everyone else has failed. This country is seventy percent women and people of color. And we have failed in this industry across the board. And so I said, I want to get into all fifty states.

In less than two years. And the reason that I wanted to do that is because I knew the only way that I could level the playing field with the hundreds of millions of dollars that the big guys were spending in marketing is I would need to use unearned media to help me to tell the story. Well national press has no interest in doing a regional story. They want a national story. Well if I'm only in three states.

I'm regional. But I mean fun. If you're Dwayne The Rock Johnson. Yeah. Sure, there's a path to that. Yeah. You're a first time liquor entrepreneur building a brand that has an incredible story behind it, but how do you make that happen? Well the first thing that I did was people in the industry on the spirit side they had this belief that awards don't matter. If you got San Francisco double gold gold best in class, that was the only one that they

Mattered. But again, I like going against the grain and I like proving people wrong. I don't know what that trait comes from, but it is just in me. And so my thought process was well Maybe people don't care about winning an award. But if we can't became the most awarded

Bourbon in the world. Out the gate? Mm-hmm. They would care. And I knew we had a head of whiskey operations with thirty one years of experience. I knew that we could make

an incredible product that we could blend an incredible product. And so I said some menace. around the world. We began doing that before we ever put a bottle in the marketplace. Wow.

Wow. Because we only had so much time and so much money. So we had to get consumers talking about us. Even before the distributors were taking us on. Everything. Yeah. And you didn't raise venture. Still haven't. Right. And so how did you fund this? The very first investor was my husband's former employee. Uh employer. Uh huh.

And he did not like the plan at all. Now, mind you, my business plan was really good. It was solid. I'm sure. But it did have to take into account with the SWOT analysis. That A massive thread. was if Brown Forman who owned Jack Daniels decided to wage a war against us. They could wage a quiet war. They could have opposed our trademark filings.

But wouldn't have been smart, but you've seen big companies do stupid things. And that would have been very costly. And yes, in the end we would have won, but then we would have had no money left. to actually build the brand. When you were talking to your husband's former employer and other prospective investors, were you leaning in to this threat to the business we So we talk about doing because that's it's a movie that I think very few people actually do saying here are the reasons not to invest in. Absolutely. We talk about how you did that if you would. So we leaned into it. And I I tell entrepreneurs all the time, when you're doing your business plan, if you're only looking at all of the strengths, you're missing a huge point that

The weaknesses and the threats are important because if you can't answer how you're going to maneuver around those, how you're going to win, then investors are not going to be comfortable. I absolutely leaned into it and said, listen. This could happen, but the greatest rewards always come from the greatest risks. And so I didn't shy away from the fact that they were a massive risk. Right. For all of our strengths and opportunities here, the weaknesses and threats. But here's how I intend to handle them. Yep.

You started raising some capital. You didn't sell too much of the business to anyone. You've held on to control of it. You started making The whiskey. Yes. You Started winning the awards that you set out to win. Yes.

Is that when the distributors started saying, Oh, like how did you get them to the place of saying we're we're ready to take you national? The press. The press. I give all credit to the press because Even before we began winning the award. They just allowed me to come and to share the story. And to share the story behind the brand.

When we created Uncle Nerest, that was the first time in history that an African American had been commemorated on a spirit bottle. Any spirit. And so the way that I really did it was I would go to them and I did a lot of these pitches myself. And I say, look at all these bourbons you have. Which one is not a white male? Just

Any of them. And so it was a bit of a wake up call for them because no one had ever asked the question before. And so then they're realizing, yes, our country has 70% women and people of color, and you have never had a bourbon brand that commemorated either. They Thought Well we can't say no.

But here's the thing. Not saying no and having any idea how to sell my brand are two very different things. So this is how we got the distributors on board. As I told him I didn't expect them to do anything but drop off the product. We would sell the brand. Mm.

We would do the work. They would be a high price FedEx. But I told them all at the very beginning. There will come a time where we are gonna build this brand and I am going to have an expectation that you will no longer be a high price FedEx. But I'll let you know when we get there. But in the meantime, we'll go to the Bebmos or the Costco. Everywhere we would do it ourselves. Mm-hmm. We had no expectation of them.

In those first каples. And so we built the entire thing out. Without having the distributors in mind. Other than saying drop off the product. Well because we legally need you to drop off the product.

But we will do the work. Selling the story, explaining why this matters, explaining the quality of the drink as well, and fighting for that precious shelf space and w promotion, whatever else they might give you. Absolutely. Just it's hand to hand. Absolutely. And it is a I mean, the the the nature of the distributor world, even to this day, it's it's not static. It's constantly changing. It's constantly moving around. Their dynamics are constantly changing. Yeah. And so I'm always having to f re figure that out.

Well what's fascinating part about this is it it is in some ways a counterintuitive approach to scale because you you you are going door to door exactly what we're doing. But because you weren't just doing Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, Alabama, like the start one state and go regional, you were able to get it out everywhere, which I imagine created a virtuous cycle because now the press is picking up more absolutely. Absolutely. And then as there's a little bit of success then from that little bit of success, then we're able to share that and the press picks up that little bit of success. And I think a lot of people are not very good about bragging about their brands. But the thing is is that consumers actually like that. Being humble about your brand is not the way to go. You can be humble in your life, but don't be humble about your brand. You have to brag because that's what consumers care about. That is what

The press cares about. And if you are going to go toe to toe with big boys that are spending hundreds of millions of dollars on marketing and you don't have that ability. You better know how to tell your story ten different ways from Sunday. Still ahead. How Fawn prioritizes company culture in the midst of rapid growth.

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I'm curious because th this is really a blitz scaling journey in a category where blitz scaling Does not happen. Yes, it is. So and when you're blitz scaling Things break. They do. And and you have to let some fires burn, you have to attend to others. Was there a moment where you said Oh

My lord, we're not gonna make it. Yeah, so Th this is the thing about Bourbon. When you're starting a new brand, you're spending money To lay down product that you cannot sell for four years. So by lay down, put it in the barrel. Prices have gone up in terms of grains and barrels and all the rest of that. But at that time I I think it was just about seven hundred dollars for all in for a barrel. For a barrel. I think the first year we laid down like maybe ten thousand. Barrels.

that I can't sell for four years. But add on top of that, I actually need product to be able to build the brand, to be able to justify paying for that. Yep. So there were absolutely times where Account is overdrawn. It is so close to to zero. In our instance, the only reason the checks didn't bounce is my husband kept a full time job at Sony Pictures. We had Nothing. That we could call our own. Was there a moment where that flipped where all of a sudden you were able to breathe? No, I don't think I'm breathing yet. Because the thing is is that we are still going at such a pace. We're acquiring other companies because one of the things I discovered coming into it is is is a single brand dies.

in this industry. Yeah. I might say to a room full of consumers, I say the name Bacardi. And people think of rum. But if you're in this industry That's not what you think of when someone says Bacardi. You think of Patron Tequila. You think of you know, Gray Goose. And that's because they are now a conglomerate that has all of these other pillars

В бізнес And so you can just go in with that one portfolio. And take care of the whole restaurant. They want you to have more stuff that they can put on their back bar if they're gonna give you. that meeting because it doesn't take them any longer for you to pitch them on your tequila, your rum, your bourbon than it does for you to just pitch them on your bourbon. It's hard enough to win the hill, then you gotta defend it. Then you have to defend it. Right. And so it is a

Іти чален. Because we're constantly scaling. And we're not just scaling Uncle Nearest, but then we we just acquired a vodka company. And then we became the largest Grand Champagne Vineyard owner in the city of Cognac to raise up a cognac company. There is so much money that goes out the door every single day. So I can't tell you. I will probably say when all of those companies are built and doing well.

Maybe I will breathe then, but I'm definitely not there yet. I mean it's so interesting because w the we we have this fabled story of the entrepreneur who is maxing out credit cards and you know partner is keeping a full time job and that salary is keeping everything afloat. Yeah. And that feels like the heart is pounding every day moment. You're at A hundred million plus in revenue, a billion plus in valuation, and you're still feeling that way everybody still feels it. It does not. change. And I think that that is something that people don't understand. The bigger you are, the more money you need.

The more you're trying to grow, the more you're trying to acquire. the more you need. Now for those who just decide, okay, I'm going to sell and just sit back, yeah, that's an option. And then yes, they are just kind of sitting pretty, but then here's the thing, and you know plenty that have done this. They all regret it afterwards because now they're trying to find their next best thing. Yeah. And then they realize, okay, there's only so many trips you can go on, so many boats you can travel on. And now you're bored. Right. Fun z so many people in your position would have done that by now and said I'm gonna take the pressure off, I'm gonna cash out, I I I bet everything and it's paid off. Yeah. You're not doing that. No. Why are you sticking with it this way? The moment I came into this industry. The the purpose wasn't to build a whiskey company, it was cement the legacy of near screen.

And Once I got in, I understood That wasn't possible unless this brand began to go to toe. And it doesn't have to be this generation. But it has to be set up in future generations.

To be alongside Jim Beam and Johnny Walker and Jack Daniel. That's The goal well, they've got a hundred and sixty year head start. Yeah. As you're as you're scaling a company through these phases, it can be very hard to maintain your culture principles, to keep people

all on the same train that that you're you're driving. I know that you've got ten principles for your company. What's your favorite one? We do it with excellence or not at all. It's number one. You know, we our guiding principles are literally living

Principles. If you talk to anyone in my in my company, they know the guiding principles. Most will always refer back to principle number three, which is every day we pound the rock. And that comes from, you know, the it is not the first hundred uh blows to that rock, but that hundred and first that cracks. You can't say it was that one blow that did it. It was the hundred that came before it. So this every day we pound the rock notion is something that we talk about in our company. But we don't just have guiding principles and I don't know how many people Have this. But

I wrote out also ten hiring principles. And the hiring principles are identical to the guiding principles in terms of action items. So when a leader's doing an interview in my company, they have the hiring principles, each one has a checkbox. And so the we do it with excellence or not at all, will Actually go to a hiring principle that mirrors it.

And if that person is interviewing and they can't check every single box That person doesn't make it to me for the function. No. It's gotta be ten out of ten. Yeah. I wanna go to one of your other principles which really struck me, which is we pull as we climb.

We do. What does that mean? That m that we cannot do this. by ourselves it's not any good if we succeed And everybody else is still left.

behind We're still, I mean, in this industry, we're still the only one. Again. Seventy percent women and people of color. What's really striking about this, which I hadn't clocked, is this is both an internal and an external principle. Yes, it is. Right. We're gonna lift up internally, but also we're gonna contribute to the ecosystem that has contributed to us. Absolutely.

And we're going to make sure that when we all m move on from this industry, that when we all move on to the next life. that we've left this industry looking so remarkably different than when we came into it. And to be able to leave that kind of a footprint. And I don't look at it as important for people to attribute it to me or to attribute it to our team. I don't look at it that way. I think what's important is is that

Two generations from now. People would have no idea that our industry at one point was almost a hundred percent white male. Another way that Fawn focuses on the We Pull as We Climb principle is through her ongoing relationship with the descendants of Nierest Green. They brought me in and supported me so early on in

This journey, the only thing that they knew is that Nears Green made the whiskey for Jack. All of the other details have come through my research. And each green that I know has read the book now, and there's so many great green stories in there, and they're learning about it, but it's also

reminding them that they come from a legacy of excellence. And then what I did when I brought them all together is On Where the original distillery number seven, the original Jack Daniel distillery Where it was on the property.

The water still runs through there the same way that it did, and you can drink directly from the water. It's filtered by The limestone and so we basically pitch this huge Eventually. right where distillery number seven was And I took clothespins.

And The entire ceiling. was covered with these clothespins and hanging from the clothespins were photos of their ancestors, military records. Birth certificates, death certificates, marriage certificates. And so there were all these things that I had found. So as they're walking through, they're like Wait, I know that person. I know that name. Wait.

That's my name. I got my name from That uncle? And so to watch their absolute wonder. Phenomenal.

Even before we sold the first bottle of Uncle Nearest, we began paying for all the green descendants to go to college. So if you're of college age, all you gotta do is get into a college. And then once you get in, you just have to maintain a three point oh. And you've got a full ride. Well. And we've done that very early on. So now the family gets together as these graduations are happening. Fon, we're gonna head into a bit of a lightning round, if that's okay. I dig it. What's your favorite way to drink Uncle Nearest? Meat.

Neat. I love Uncle Nearest Neat. No ice, no No sugar, no anything. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love a great cocktail if I go to a bar. But if I'm at home It's usuating. Well it's that good. It is. What's your latest research rabbit hole? It's really funny. My latest research rabbit hole has been King Asa.

I don't know why I'm fascinated in Chronicles and in in the book of second Kings. It just mentions this king very briefly, but what I've always been fascinated by is every king before him. Just had nonstop wars, and every king after him had n stop wars. But King Asa, it says, and the Lord gave him rest. And because I love rest, and I think it's really important. I think we're a sleep deprived country, which is why, you know, so many things are happening that probably shouldn't be. I love this notion that a king was given rest. So that's been my deep dive is trying to figure out who the heck was this guy.

Is there any other habit that you have that has been critical to your success that we haven't talked about? Two things. Uh rest we've talked about. I think that that has been absolutely critical because the decisions that I have to make sometimes are lightning fast. And if I I'm not rested, the likelihood that those

Will be Pretty big mistakes. Is high. The other thing I would say is is that uh Teaching myself not to worry.

Entrepreneurs spend a whole lot of time worrying. And the challenge with that is is that when you worry You shut down the part of your brain that you need the most. To be able to trouble shoot to come up with creative solution.

And so I bought a book by Dale Carnegie. The book's gotta be eighty years old. You know this book, How to Stop Worrying and Start Living? Yep, right. And so I read the book and it has all these different tricks and trays and but there was one that really resonated with me. Which one? And it was to write down Everything that you're worrying about. Put it in an envelope.

And I literally put it in the back of my desk and I committed to f to not think about anything that was in the envelope. Now don't get me wrong, I still worried about another twenty other things. But I committed to myself I wouldn't worry about the things that were And that envelope, and those were the things that had been keeping me up at night. Those were the things that I could barely get anything done because I was so fixated. on fixing those things. And after a while, I completely forgot. about the envelope. And I remember going back to it, I think maybe a year later.

And reading those things. And my God, they were foolish. Like they were absolutely silly. And so what I began thinking about from that. That day Was how many other things did I allow to rob me of moments of life and joy and progress? Because I was worrying about it and they never came true.

Um Fun when you're feeling stuck or unsure about a big decision. Um, who do you talk to or what do you do to get to the answer? Yeah.

Forмі it's it's super super simple I I have Just a foundation of faith. That is that's where we start with this. The person who I speak to the most is my husband.

The most. About everything. However. There are so many things that I deal with. That

If I went with to him every single time. Number one, he wouldn't be able to get anything done. And also it'd be very stressful for him. And so my process is very simple. It involves a lot of prayer. I've had the same prayer for almost thirty years.

God, if this is your will. Then open the door. In a manner in which no man can close it, including myself. If it is not your will. Close the door in a manner in which no man can open it, including myself. So what that does is I'm just constantly going through open doors.

Lit pass, open doors. I think Matthew McConaughey called it green lights, right? If the door closes, that means that's not for me. But what I don't do is stand on the outside of the door second guessing whether or not I should go through the door. I go through the door with absolute abandon without second guessing it. If it's open. Well I'm walking out of this so inspired and so grateful for you for

Living your purpose. and for living so authentically and for coming here and sharing your story and for inspiring thousands and thousands of others to to do the same. So thank you. I'm so grateful. Thank you. I'm grateful that you had me. There's so much to learn from Fawn Weaver's story.

She has blended her insatiable curios and innately rebellious spirit into a brand that is growing at incredible pace. If you want to learn more about the story of Neerest Green, Fawn's book is Love and Whiskey, the remarkable true story of Jack Daniel, his master distiller Neerest Green, and the improbable rise of Uncle Neerest. I'm Jeff Berman. Thanks for listening. Masters of Scale is a Wait What original.

Our executive producer is Eve Trow. Our senior producer is Trisha Bobita. The production team includes Tucker Legurski, Masha Makatanina, and Brandon Klein. Additional production by Juliette Luigi. Our senior talent executive is Stephanie Stern.

Mixing and Mastering by Aaron Bastanelli and Brian Pew. Origin Music by Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcasts is the Tall Mod. Visit mastersofscale.com to find the transcript for this episode and to subscribe to our email newsletter.

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