#93 - Why Tai Lopez Bought Pier One

All right. I've been in meetings all day. I can I tell you, I am a wartime CEO. I love when things are going bad so much more when they're going good. Why is that? Because you're good at it or it just gets you fired up. It gets me fired up. I love the adrenaline. Like when Corona hit. And we've done good during Corona. It's all good. I mean You know, we got hurt but like

We're fine. I loved it. I was like oh my God, this is living. I feel so happy. Yeah, I love it. Okay, so you love being war time CEO. What's the war? Tell us about it. Well like

Yeah. There's this great book that I've I'm reading And I think I've seen this across multiple books. It's called Ready Fire aim. I've heard yes.

And you know, it's funny, it's it's published by Agora, that scammy company that I've mentioned tons of times. Wait, that's the name of the book or just name of the framework? Book. Okay, gotcha. Ready fire aim. Maybe it's a framework. I don't know. Mike something Mathinson, this guy created it. It's the army army guy, the general, right? Like No, no, no, no. So I think we're talking about two different maybe there's two things named the same thing. Um And it just basically said like look from

Zero to one million. You have to just figure out like what it is that people like and make it And then from like one million to 10 million. It's just about hiring

people to like help make it possible and like just surviving and then Ten million to a hundred million where we are. you have to innovate constantly and while maintaining process. And that's really hard to do. I mean, that's like a different challenge. I've already I've overcome the first one, I've overcome the second one. Now this is a new challenge and it's a challenge not for me, but for all of our staff. And that's super hard. And so there's constantly drama of like making people happy.

Some employees who started are not the ones to lead. You know, things like that. And I'm dealing with that now. And

Like part of me is like, Oh my God, this is such a headache. Another part of me is like This all can crumble. And I love the feeling of knowing I can die tomorrow. Okay, so what's your approach? Are you um you know, problem problem gets problem comes to your attention. So the first question is

Are you a problem identifier or do you hear about the problems from somebody and then you're like, oh, that's a problem. Okay, I'm gonna act on it. Or you the one who in your company's like Hey guys, this is a big problem. Uh both. I b both. But where I am is I'm decisive. Like I'm not d when things are going well, I'm like uh you know, just keep doing the same but more.

But then when people are when I hear about problems, I'm like like someone before this told me of like a problem they're having. I go, Okay. You're gonna change. We're gonna hire this person and we're gonna do it. Today. And so I send out an email and I go

We put the add up. Madison start recruiting people immediately. And so to me, it's like I only can hear something one time. I go, we're going to do this. And so what I like to do is It's like sh I I so I I self identify as like a strong beliefs loosely held, which is I believe something full heart.

with all my heart. And then if I hear a little bit of information that changes, I go, Oh, okay. Fuck all that. We're going the other way. Right. So anyway, I love like it's like in a battle, I'm like If there's if we I was I so wish I could be in like war sometimes. I'm like Oh, the enemy's coming from here? We're gonna risk our lives and do this, this and this and this go. Right.

So I was thinking about this yesterday because of the presidential debate stuff. So right now we're four or five months away, whatever it is, like November is is when the the election happens, right? So I think that's four months away. And There was no d there hasn't been any debates yet. And I was like, when the hell are the debates? Are people gonna do are they gonna do the debates? I think they're gonna do it. When are they?

And'cause I really want to see what happens with Biden versus Trump. And right now all the news I don't know if you've seen is that like oh Biden is crushing Trump in the polls. It's looking like it's gonna be a Biden landslide. And then Biden is kind of like, Hey, hey, hey, guys, guys, guys, it's not over. Like make sure because you know, he needs people to turn out. People need to feel like they're gonna lose so they go vote. You know, I I don't pay attention. I I don't give a fuck about polls anymore after last election is So that's what the polls are saying right now. And um and smart people are sort of backing that up, as they tend to do, which which they also did in 2016.

But anyways, it's looking like Biden's gonna win in a landslide. And so I was thinking about this and I was like To me, I don't think that's what's gonna happen. I would want that to happen, but I don't think that's what's gonna happen. So Why think about why do I think this? Is this just like I'm trying to be contrarian or

I I don't trust the polls or And I realized what it was is I think that We are in war time. Not literal war necessarily, although something like that.

But kind of. Like There's a lot of tension with China. There's the coronavirus, which is like this biological war that we're fighting. There's like the race tensions in America. There's all the stuff. So we are not in peacetime in America. And I think it's because it's wartime, people are gonna want a wartime CEO running the country.

And I think Trump is gonna be seen as the wartime CEO. And that's why I think people are In times of tension. They're gonna go towards the leader they think. is the stronger, more decisive, more aggressive leader.

And they will Ignore the many, many flaws that the guy has. So that's my theory on that. What do you think? I completely agree. And And let's preface this by saying we are not saying what we do or what we do or do not want. And and I always like I always talk about this shit all the time and be like, What are you pro Trump? I was like, Well, I'm not telling you if I'm pro Trump or anti Trump. I'm just telling you what I think is gonna happen. Right. And not only is this not what I want to happen I also don't know shit about politics. So yeah, some people be like, No, no, trust me, this polling data is statistically significant. It's kinda blah, blah, blah. Okay, sure.

I'm just saying Based on what this is a total gut instinct on what I know about people. And I know that when people are afraid They flee towards strongman leaders. And I think that tr Trump is gonna be that more than Biden. That's that's the theory.

I think that they don't I mean, I think I agree with you, but I would say I don't think that um it's just that they go for a certain type of leader. I think that it's more so they don't want change. And so I just Googled this while we were talking. I was just curious. about the president during World War One and World War two. So Woodrow Wilson was the president from nineteen thirteen to nineteen twenty one.

I don't think The war was fourteen to eighteen. So fourteen to eighteen. So he was between the he was before and after the war. Yeah, so he but got reelected during the war, basically. Okay, yeah, so he had eight years, so four uh two terms. And then F D R died in forty five in the middle of the war. So that doesn't exactly

uh work out. Right. Uh but but I would be curious about like in times of massive crisis, what does happen. Um like Bush one two terms. Um Uh so yeah, I I I I that'd be interesting to see like what in times of crisis, and I don't know how you define crisis, like

Maybe the Great Depression Was it the same person over and over again? I don't know. I would I would love to learn about that. If I had a bet money, which I'm not going to, I would bet on Trump winning. Right. So so okay, we we don't even have to go to the politics, but I I do like this framework. Uh, and I think if you're out there and you don't know what we're talking about, war time, peacetime, you should go figure that out. I think Ben Horowitz's book talks about it.

He also has a great blog post about it. Um then there's other um kind of wartime, peacetime type of type of analogy. I think we talked about one on here which was like Pioneers, settlers, and town planners. Did we talk about that? Think.

Maybe. So that's that's like a thing with your company. Like there's some people who are pioneers, they're gonna be great at figuring out the new thing. Then there's uh settlers who basically can create the initial camp once you f once you find the new land. And then there's town planners, which are more like the large company. you know, I can run a division of a hundred to thousand people. Um And so there's that. And then there's another one I was listening to. So I like the Naval podcast a lot. If you haven't listened to that.

Good better than this podcast, I would say. He's probably You know, the sort of Best blend of business and philosophy. out there, although some people don't like him now because he's getting I I like Naval. I'm not a Naval dick writer though. Yeah, I think is that just because there's so many dick writers and you're like, Fuck that, I'm not gonna be one of them.

Or is it because you actually don't like the content. I think there's a lot of emptiness in rich people saying money doesn't make you happy. And Right. So there's two ways to think about that. So there's two ways to think about that. One is

Yeah, that's easy to say when you get a lot of money. All right, fair. Could be true. That could be the truth. And then the other version of it is What if it what if there was like this curtain? And everybody wants to go to the other side of the curtain and then the people who guilt through it to the other side of the curtain, they're like, Hey guys, wait. This is not all it's cracked up to be.

Maybe that would be another way of thinking about this, which is that If rich people get to the other side of rich and they're not fulfilled. then they're gonna go tell everybody, hey guys, this isn't the answer. I thought it was the answer too. And so I just don't think it's binary like that. That's my point. It's like Not d it's different strokes for different folks. Not everyone is driven by the same stuff. Not every some people

are happier rich. Some people are not. Like it's not like a you've Yeah, the it's money is is it's it's impossible to say money does not make you happy. It's like oh some people it might, many people it will not. Right.

By the way, for for Naval specifically, he has a pretty good line, which I I subscribe to, which is that money solves your money problems. It doesn't solve all your problems, but it solves your money problems. And if you don't have your money problem solved, those are big fucking problems in your life. Exactly. So he he's actually of the type that says everybody who tells you money doesn't make you happy. kind of crazy because money a lot of these problems that will make you unhappy. So although it won't make you happy, it get rid gets rid of several of the root causes of unhappiness that people have. But there are others and you should work on those too. So anyways, on this podcast he was talking about He was interviewing this guy and this guy was talking about

In every company. Or really any society there's Three It's like his thing was about innovation. It's like why don't people innovate? Why don't companies innovate? Uh why don't societies innovate?

'Cause a lot of people say America doesn't innovate anymore, big companies don't innovate anymore. Groups one is chiefs. The other is priests and the third is thieves. So he goes, it's chiefs, priests, and thieves. that steel innovation. So okay, what what are these three groups? So

Uh chiefs are the people in charge. And they typically like the status quo. there's priests which sort of you know are all about sort of the religion of the way things are done, the way they should be done, the rules, and these are usually invisible mythical mystical rules uh that that get created. And so at big companies they always talk about Hey, what sacred cows do you need to kill in order for your company to grow and become new? It's like Well, you need to address the priests in the company who are not gonna want you to kill those sacred cows.

And the last one is the fire them? D did he does he say to fire them? Uh, I don't know. So he was interviewing him about a book that's not out yet. So I don't if I can know that, but I just thought this was interesting because I started seeing it everywhere when I think about the company I'm in, right? So I'm in a company with over Yeah, close to two thousand people. I would say it's not that innovative as a company. Now

In some ways it doesn't need to be like The the company's just growing like crazy because the market is growing and it's the leader of the market. But If you think about innovation Yeah, there's

There's always a need to innovate. If I looked around, I can identify people who might be chiefs, priests, or thieves in the company. The thieves would be people who are Sort of in it for their own self interest. They like to c kind of hoard resources.

I mean they're just looking for their own personal gain at the expense of the the Greater good. And so I thought that I like these frameworks because it helps you decode a bunch of messy human behavior. And just be like, Oh, that's that's a way to think about what's going on here. Here's does this lens help me? If not, throw it away, but maybe this lens helps. So that's why I wanted to bring it up. I think that's fantastic. You know, it's funny, everyone

I some a a listener sent us this like Shopify store of t shirts he made, and some of them are kinda neat. And I posted about it. I go shit, are these guys is this cool? Should we sell the shit? And everyone I I got People texting me saying it's cool and I would be like Oh I somehow got to like what do you like about the podcast? And they all said the same shit, which is

Sam is blunt. And Honest. And Sometimes

I think they s some people said mostly right. Sean is the king of frameworks and makes complicated things easy to understand. Yeah, that's cool. I think that's accurate. I will also give you that you're kind of like McGivory. Uh like you're a hustler and a schemer in the best way, meaning like You will

Figure out Where's the action? Where's the money? Where's the demand? I think you're really good at that. And I think when you bring up things, it's because you've sniffed out something and you're you're like, you know, you've gone and hunted something. You bring it onto the podcast or you bring it into the Facebook groups. And for all the rest of us, it's like

Oh shit, this is interesting. I never I never knew this company's making all this money. I never knew there was this much demand for X, and it's because you I think you're very good at sniffing that out. Well, I didn't want this to be a Sam and Sean jerk off session, but uh here we are. But uh the point is is that you are very good at this framework stuff. I I'm I'm writing down chiefs and priests and thieves and I'm gonna apply this. Um You've done that a couple of times. You did this another time. What was it?

I forget when it was, but I was like, Oh my God, yes, he's right. I'm gonna do that. So good job with that. Keep doing that. Um speaking of sniff I got one question for you. Do people in uh do people at the hustle listen to this? And is that weird for you that they listen to this?'Cause I hope my co workers just don't listen to this. Yeah. I don't want to even have that in my head of like oh If I mention something that's gone on at my company or whatever. I don't wanna have to deal with the actual people who are doing it later.

'Cause this is my little private space to share with the listeners. But if the listeners are some of those people, I'm like, Oh shit, it's tricky. Yeah, it is weird. So Steph Smith, one of our She's your stars. She's a star. Steph's a star. I love Steph to death. She's listening to this right now, I bet. She um Told me she listens to every episode, I'm like Really?

She goes, Yeah, it's so good. And I was like Uh first I it's there's flattery. Second it's like I can't believe people like this. That's crazy'cause I I mean I don't know. Do you Yeah. I don't I've never listened to one episode because I don't have the episode. Well first of all I was here during the conversation, right? So like I don't need to go listen to it. I I know what we said. So that's not it's not new information to It's just hard. You're like I don't

You don't want to I I call it the peanut butter and jelly problem, which is like When my mother would make me something to eat. It was wonderful. And then when I did the same thing, I'm like oh this is not that hard. Like this isn't special at all. This is bullshit. What a fraud. Dude, that guy's gonna make a Shopify T shirt. My mom makes the best peanut butter and jelly.

Probably will. All right, so you were gonna switch topics what what are you going to? Okay, speaking of sniffing out stuff, I got some stuff that I've sniffed out just this morning and we didn't prepare too much for this because it all happens to be. This is interesting you sent this to me. I loved it. Okay, so let's talk about well, all right, I'm gonna talk about that one second. The first one is um Wow, more people are sending me the same decks. So many people okay. Well we could just talk about if you want. Let's we could talk about that first. Yeah. No, let's talk about this other one first. Okay, so I just read about this guy and I just tweeted about it.

It's so interesting. There's this guy, it's called Bonsa I don't know how to pronounce this because I don't know where the space is in the word because I'm just looking at the URL. Okay, here it is. Uh Fuck, I can't pronounce this. Bonsai.

Yeah. B-O-N-S A I so bonsai and then Mira and M I Or

A I dot com. Okay. Um Are are you going to that? You gotta go to the ball. Okay, so I'm seeing trees. We connect we create trees that connect you. Okay, what's happening here? Okay. This fucking guy is

Brilliant. He is the Bob Bros of Bonsai Trees. And if you go to go to that URL I said, but add live in the beginning. Mm, okay.

Oh, I see it now. Okay. If you go to live. Bonsai Mira.com slash pricing. You can get to a pricing page at least. Yeah. Seventeen ninety nine per month. For You can build your bonsai skills on his revolutionary live stream. Yeah. So you pay twenty dollars a month or thirty dollars a month and you get to watch him do bonsai trimming.

And people are loving it. And I looked at his traffic and he has peaked in April, and he is getting somewhere between twenty and fifty thousand people a month coming to this website. And they wanna both watch him Trim bonsai trees. And

And bye, Bonsai. I mean I know nothing about this. This world I don't know what It's just freaking crazy. So he has two hundred and thirty videos in his library with three hundred and sixty hours of bonsai education.

Fifty different tree species worked on and hundreds of different techniques. It is nuts. This is so cool. I love this. And so his take is. This is This is an alternative to headspace. Ah, okay. So it's like some kind of active meditation, basically.

And it is so cool. I'm a I'm a big believer in this. Okay. So this you just made me realize why I like this whole set of things. Meditation is cool. I think everybody wants the benefits of meditation. But I would say the majority of people really struggle to meditate regularly. But

What most people don't realize is that Meditating is not just sitting in a room with your legs crossed. and breathing and not thinking any thoughts, right? There's a whole bunch of different forms, including What this guy's doing, which is bonsai tree trimming. But also including that workout thing we talked about, the happy body.

It's like this low intensity, slow Breath based Like weightlifting. that honestly just felt like meditation more than weightlifting. Um there was.

There's other things. Why do people like hiking? Well it's because There's a whole bunch of things that okay, I I'm I'm really on the Naval train right now, but I I gotta say another line of his that's money, which is Most people want peace of mind, but really they should want peace from mind. And

People just want to get away from their mind. And you know, your mind living in your head makes you unhappy a lot of times. And you'll notice this if you're in a social situation, but you're in your own head, you will not be enjoying that social situation. If you are trying to give a speech, but you're in your own head, editing your thoughts, thinking about what you're gonna say, you will not be doing a good job nor enjoying it. And so same thing here. There's a whole bunch of activities that can get you out of your own head.

Meditation is one. Maybe bonsai is another exercise is another. And so people are cr music festivals is another. If you stimulate yourself with enough loud music. drugs, dancing, sweating, he w alcohol, whatever else. you will stop living in your own head. You'll lose yourself in the moment. And uh those feelings are kind of euphoric, and I think people are chasing those. And so if you can develop something like that.

Which might be as simple as those silly Instagram like Cutting of sand. videos or whatever, like there's apps in the app store that are these calming calming videos on loop. So it's kind of like calm.com. It's kind of like the calm meditation app. But instead it's like a TikTok feed of just

Soothing Soap cutting. Sand cutting, cake cutting videos. And People love these for relaxation. So I think there's a whole class of ideas that are like this.

And let me give you f more classes, and I am just riffing right now where I I'm not playing this at all, and I'm just uh this is this is all off memory. Okay, so here's three examples. The first example is there's a T V show that I used to watch as a kid that I see, uh no one's really done a good job of making it. Again for digital. It's called How It Works. Do you remember that show? I remember the show, yeah. All they did was they would say, Today we're gonna do a Ferrari factory, a soap factory, and a F factory that makes hoses.

Right and I don't remember. Uh uh what's it called? Fortune cookie factory. I still remember that episode in my head. And they don't really talk much. The guy talking is a it's a man that with a deep voice and he talks a little bit. He goes First.

They Source the rubber and mix it with black to make the rubber black or uh whatever they say. And then you just see like a machine mixing rubber. Like Three minutes. Then they go.

After that the people put it into a mold to make it round. And then you just see that and then And then they stretch it out like Next step is like boom, there's your hose. And they do that for an hour. And it was wonderful. I used to watch it as a kid all the time. The second example is

AMSR barbers. Me and my friend Neville. Yeah. A S M R. Yeah, but there's barbers. Me and my friend Neville have sat and watched this. There is for some reason this is really popular in India. Where You

Type in ASMR barber. There's a barber with six hundred bit, six hundred and sixty-six thousand subscribers on YouTube, and all you do is watch him shave people's heads. I have watched so many hours of this. Me and Neville will sit down and just watch this. I went to his house one time and I sa uh used his computer or Apple TV to go to Google or something and I saw that like the link was clicked. I go, Neville Do you also watch this guy an idiot who shaves heads? And he goes, Yeah. And we just I go, Me too. And we just watched him shave. people's heads with a straight razor. 'Cause there's a different barber thing I've seen where you put your headphones on.

And it sounds like a barber shaving right above your right ear only. It's kinda like a st s stereo sound or whatever where You can kinda feel where it's going behind your head, in front of your head. It's not that. That's a different experience. No, it's different. So This is just watching the guy do it. Yeah.

Um And so they have so many views, and I have sat for hours and watched it. There's this one okay, it's this Indian guy. I think he's Indian. Yeah, he's in India. ASMR saloon and massage. This guy uh has Ten million videos. Of someone sh getting their head shaved.

That's all it is. He doesn't talk. All he does is shaves his head. And I've watched it so many times. There's another version of this. Um A little bit it's not A S Mr exactly, but this guy Munir. Have you seen him on Instagram? No. There's this hairstylist in Dubai or something like that. And girls will fly around the world.

to just go to this guy's salon because they've seen him on Instagram. And he just cut he colors and cuts your hair and his his he does an Instagram video that's kinda like a music video basically of him just He grabs your hair, he washes it, see you see the wash, you see the color, you see the foil being wrapped. Then you see boom, the color's done.

And he cuts the hair and then he does his thing at the end where he just flinks the hair with his hands. And the way he flicks the hair, everybody loves the flick. And uh this guy Munir has like I don't know how many followers does he even talk? But I listen to a lot of the No, he doesn't talk. No, there's nothing. It's just the same song every single time. So it's like hypnotizing. Um it's always the same song, I believe.

And This guy has six point six million followers on Instagram. I watch a shit ton of his videos. And I couldn't care less about like women's hairstyle, but there's something addictive to watching this. I agree. And I think that anyone who has a product or service that you can do this You can just film it.

For thirty minutes, and some and if there's a few. characteristics that people love to watch. The third one is called primitive technology. I was I followed this guy since the day he launched. He launched five years ago. He had his original videos, if you go to his YouTube page and do sort by All this his original videos It's a thirty.

Uh 11 minute video, four-minute video, four-minute video, and then I believe he used to, or maybe he still does, has thirty minute videos. He has Yeah, a piece of property in the woods. And he builds stuff. So he's building a hut. He's starting a fire. With sticks, he's building a stone axe. And he has

And he blew up his very first video that he posted, he accumulated like two million subscribers. Now he has ten million subscribers. He doesn't talk, he doesn't say a word. All you do is you watch him build this hut. And it is mesmerizing. Um and now he has a book, A Survivalist Guide to Building Tools, Shelters, and More. But he could he could do anything he wants, this guy. It's pretty amazing. All of his literally all of his videos, you can go and look at this have at least five million views and the highest ones have thirty or forty million views. Uh the highest one has seventy four million views and all he's doing is building a hut.

This is fucking amazing. I didn't know about any of this. Um that's amazing. Wow. So I'm just looking at I'm just looking at his stuff right now. It's cool. Every video has like over ten million views. He's not like He's not like oh I'll teach you how to do this. No, he's just doing a word.

He doesn't say one word. What kind of genius was this guy? Like who who has the creative genius to like Do this, come up with this and actually make it successful. That's amazing. I mean he has let's see, he has um we should just do a silent podcast. Just no just us breathing. He has close to one billion views on his video. Wow. It's okay. Oh crazy. This is what okay, so relaxation. Uh yeah. I don't even know what we bucket this as. Takeaways is these small I guarantee this bonsai guy makes a wonderful living and this primitive technology totally does too. I uh the takeaways for anyone listening is these relaxation things are awesome.

They're probably a lot harder to do than we are make like oh all you do is something. Yeah. Yeah. So there's definitely more to it, but they work. And the second thing it's cool to see people make livings off uh small ass fun stuff. Yeah, exactly. Some new stuff they're super passionate about. Let's get to the lesson niche thing. So um I will set the context here. So um I read about this today. Pier one.

They sell betting stuff. They sell furniture, they sell home goods. Yep. They went bankrupt. And there was this company.

Called retail. e commerce ventures, really bland name that acquired the IP, I guess you could say. So what they're gonna do, it seemed like was they're gonna use it. Did they acquire it? It's like done. Yeah.

They are uh sorry, I think they have the winning bid and the paperwork signs in like a very short amount of time. I see. Okay. And so their move is that they're gonna turn Pier one dot com into a viable store and sell all the stuff online.

I don't understand how that works with like the brick and mortar stuff. I I don't quite get it, but I remembered I recognized this name. And I realized, oh, I had read about this when someone bought Dress Barn. Dressbarn is like a middle of America store. I grew up with it. Where it's like cheap clothes. You just go and you kinda pick Stop out of a bin. And the same company bought the IP for that. And I did some research.

I mean i I just googled it. It wasn't that hard. Um, and the guy who owns that is Ty Lopez. And for those of you who don't know, Ty Lopez is this guy I'm gonna try and reserve judgment, but many accuse him of being a quick a get rich quick guy. He sells courses on how to start a social media agency or how to find your calling in life. And He was most famous because his he was one of the first advertisers on YouTube and he had this video where he goes

Here I am in my garage with my Lamborghinis and I've I I read a lot of books and you should read books too. Buy my course and I can just teach you what I've run in these books. And so he's spending thirty million dollars to buy Pier one. Uh uh along with other stuff and we gotta hold up his deck. Um, I didn't even read it, but

I read. John, I I've talked a lot and I've set the stage. You wanna Yeah, so This is one of the most interesting things I've seen in a while. Um So it's not just Ty Lopez. It's this also this other guy, Alex Mare. Alex Mare was the founder and CEO of Zusk. He and Ty Lopez, so Zeus sold for two hundred four million, I think.

Um it was a dating app that was really popular in the app store. Um it's kind of like a low level dating app, but they they had gamed Facebook ad. So he had like found an arbitrage of Facebook, I believe, early on, had grown a lot through that. Maybe some other things. I'm not super familiar with their story, but Successfully built Zeus. Then him and Ty Lopez built mentor box.

Which um Does pretty well. So set mentor box. I'm gonna just do a little calculation. Let me just get a little estimate here. Yeah, and on his website they say how big mentor boxes, they say how big the variety of businesses are that they've acquired. Yeah, how big is Mentor Box, the claim. It says sixty thousand subscribers. Yeah. So so sixty or seventy thousand subscribers. I don't know exactly what their price point is, but I think it's doing

Um Over a million dollars a month. So I think it's safe to say um about 10 million dollars a year. I I actually subscribe to it to see what it is because I was looking at businesses like this. There's like a one dollar trial and then I think it costs like 10 bucks or something like that, maybe twenty bucks. You get a book. Um or summary and you get access to these videos. I don't know. I don't use it. It's not it's not that good, in my opinion. But um anyways, this mentor box does over ten million bucks a year easily. Um

And so Ty Lopez, you're absolutely right. Most people view him as kind of like he's a meme, he's a joke. Um You gotta kinda respect the hustle in a way like he's not a nobody, so You know, good on you. Um but he

really sold out hard on the Kind of. self help, I'm a I'm a rich guy, let me t teach you to be rich, type of thing. Um to the point where Successful and rich people typically don't.

Um look at Ty Lopez as like someone they admire. He's not Richard Branson, he's Ty Lopez. And so Uh, but this dress barn thing was interesting. They didn't say how well the dress barn acquisition has done since they so basically they're buying these old retail stores that have a big brand. And then they're relaunching them as e commerce only stores. They're saying, Hey, what if we had the brand recognition over Pier One? But none of the brick and mortar

Headaches that Pier one has. And can we just sell Pier one? А з і комерс оні сторо. Pier one was doing about three hundred million dollars a year in e commerce revenue. A billions of total revenue.

And I I'm not exactly sure why it's going bankrupt or why they if these guys are getting this for thirty million dollars, that's a I can steal unless there's something else I don't know, which Could very well be the case'cause We don't have their books. But this is an amazing business opportunity, I think, actually. So you know.

props to those guys because when I saw this, I was like, this is a really smart play. Pier one has uh Pier One's actually like more of like a tier one brand. Uh it's like much bigger than Dress Born. And Taking if you can get the rights to the name the and the inventory. Um, to be able to sell this online.

I I mean That's a it's if if the online store the online business is already doing over two hundred fifty million dollars a year. Uh and you're picking up that asset for twenty thirty million dollars, that's a that's a steal. So I'm not sure about it. And here's here's what you get when you buy Pier one. You get thirty million customer database, which basically means their email address and their buying history, I think. I d I don't know what else. Uh of those thirty million, eight million of them are activated.

Are active. Which I don't know how that's defined. Yeah. And the most of the database can be retargeted on Facebook. And the guy who bought

Who's Ty Lopez's partner was a dating app person. And the dating app people are notoriously And they're in the same category of gamers, which is or gaming people, which doesn't mean that they're scammy at all. It just means that they're incredibly savvy marketers and sometimes that involves like some shady tactics.

And But that's okay. That that just dating apps are user acquisition companies that happen to sell dating. And gaming apps are User acquisition companies that happen to sell games. And so both of them, you live and die on how effectively you're able to buy user and make money off that user very quickly. Which sounds like all business.

But it is because they're typically low retention businesses. Um, you're kind of churning and burning through users at a pretty high rate. Exactly. So you're probably sophisticated at customer acquisition. And so the theory is if you could take someone who's that sophisticated at that and throw them at a more stickier product that's actually like people love or that's in a better Uh industry.

Um You're gonna have success. So it's interesting. I think that these guys did this before Corona and then that should happen and now all these guys are going bankrupt. So We're good on I mean they're set to Succeed.

It's interesting. Yeah. I I think this is honestly this is Pretty great. I'm kinda jealous that I didn't do this. Well, you could have done it with some um Brandless, except you'd have to so Brandless was a company that was like a And like they brandless.com, we talked about them on here before all this happen, and they sold like

Like basically the to target brand of stuff that brandless wanted to redo target brand. And make like brand generic brands that were High high medium quality, but low priced and they went out of business, but you'd have to assume I think like thirty million dollars in debt or something crazy.

Yeah, which I'm guessing is also the reason that this business is so um devalued slash going bankrupt, right? The revenues are are actually quite high. But there must be some just huge overhang or debt obligation or something that's causing them to to declare bankruptcy rather than find a find a buyer. But yeah, if they can become kind of like a Wayfair Junior, that's pretty good. Wayfair is like a seven

And if they can take Pier One into an online only brand. Uh if they can shed some of that, you know, liability. uh in in the transaction, like that's that's a win. And so I'm curious if we're gonna see more of this. Are we gonna see Dollar General? Are we gonna see Crate and Barrel? Are we gonna see No, you won't see Dollar General. Dollar General so do you know about the dollar stores I've heard that they're thriving during during COVID in general. Actually, No, why so in the

Early two thousands. I think that's when the first one Um Uh, Bra you, you can actually look this up if you look up Dollar General. They were all but Dollar General and then where's the other three name? There's three of them, I think. The Dollar General. Family dollar, I believe. Family dollar and maybe there's one more. Um

Dollar Tree. Those three were acquired by the private the big private equity firm. So KKR, which is uh one of the maybe the third biggest private equity firm. The second one Uh one another brand was acquired by uh Black.

Stone or black rock stone. which is I think the biggest private equity firm. And these fucking guys Turn these damn things around so much. They like said, like, all right, we're gonna start selling milk.

We're gonna start doing this, we're gonna start doing that. And it costs a million dollars to open a store and they go, We're opening up a store. everywhere. And they went on a spree where they open they opened up these fucking stores everywhere and they are crushing it. The all the private equity firms pounced on this at the same time and dollar stores are killing it. Yeah, I've I've heard about that. My uh I know somebody who is like the preferred real estate developer for them. So I was like, dude, how's Covey? You know, you do retail development. He's like, Well, luckily my tenants were hobby lobby.

Dollar General and you know, basically a bunch of stores that actually have continued to thrive even even in like even as retail continues to die. So Um, I found that kind of interesting. Now, what's interesting here is that they're actually buying the IP for Pier one. They're not buying The company. And so I think they're just basically buying the brand the rights the maybe the rights to sell online. I'm not sure exactly. This deck is a little bit light. So um

Yeah, I don't know. It's interesting. I think Sharper Image did the same thing. If you want a case study on how this is done, I'm almost positive that sharper image. went through an issue where it went out of business and they only sold the website and it ran as as its own thing. I would also be interested to see if somebody's gonna do this with other struggling brands like a Twenty Four Hour Fitness. So Twenty Four Hour Fitness is also closing out stores, going through bankruptcy, has a huge customer database of members who have member active memberships.

And if you could say, Okay, cool, we're We're gonna buy the twenty four hour fitness IP. And we're gonna take it to a digital fitness brand and you basically rip off either the sweat app or like Free Lytics or one of these like workout apps, and you like basically white label the the app experience, but you combine that with the 24 hour IP and customer database. Brand name.

I think that that is you know, you could probably create a lot of value there depending on what price you could get in. So I think this is cool. Yeah, it is cool. And if anyone is caring about this and we'll move on. Uh, there's two other companies that I know that have done this. The first is Iconics Brand. Iconics Brand owns

a ton of stuff, including Rock Aware, Jay Z thing. So they bought Z thing, Mud Jeans. You remember Mud Jeans? Umbro. They own um Ed Hardy, Joe Boxer, all these kind of like third, fourth tier brands. Right. They've done it and they're quite large. And then the second one that's done it even better. And I was I I don't want to give stock advice, but Uh I I think I was gonna I I like this.

brand. Uh it's called VF Corporation and they own Dickey's. vans, which is on a tear. Jan sport. Um, Timberland, the North Face, and a few others. Wow.

North Face is pretty big. Um okay, cool. Um what else? What else do we want to talk about? There's a bunch of things on this list. Anything stand out to you or anything you wanted to bring up that was interesting. I'm gonna defer to you. All right, let's do a quick one. Uh you saw this Twitter hack yesterday that was about like you know, taking over Elon and Jeff Bezos's account and a whole bunch of people were like You wanna give the you wanna set the kind set the state.

A bunch of P so there was a a a takeover of a whole bunch of blue check marked face uh verified kind of uh Twitter verified accounts, including Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Bill Gates, and others. And they went they posted a thing. So so what I saw was basically Jeff Bezos posts something along the lines of You know, guys I've done so well. I really just want to give back Um you know

I want to make sure I get back to the community. for you know, for the next thirty minutes. Um, anybody who sends me one bitcoin, I'll send two back. Uh, you know, thirty minutes only. Good luck. Have fun, guys. And then Elon's account.

retweets it and basically is like, ah me too, brother. I'm in. I'll do this. Eli got hacked too. Yeah, I was like I'll do the same, blah blah blah. And so they they did this. And then the funny thing is that because All Bitcoin transactions are uh recorded on the blockchain and they posted the public address of the wallet.

You could see how many people in real time are getting duped by this. And so, like, you know, last I saw it, a hundred something thousand dollars had been transferred to these wallets that will never be recovered. I'm looking online now. It looks like a hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. hundred eighteen thousand dollars and then Twitter kind of like blo locked all blue check accounts. So they kind of just hit the safety switch and just said No blue chat can do anything on Twitter right now. to like stop the activity. They figured out that

the they posted something that said They think that some Like a moderator or an admin had been compromised. So somebody who had admin rights, which gave you rights to like m uh manage like the blue check mark accounts. Um they either bribed the person or they were working with them or they took over that person's account or something like that. And that's how the vulnerability worked.

Um that's why they were able to get access to everybody's all at once. And so interesting just crazy scenario in general. And then two, a whole bunch of people were like Dude, if you had if you had access to Jeff Bezos, Elon, and whoever's Twitter accounts, and the best you could get was$118,000, like imagination. And so w and then there was a bunch of people saying What would you do? Like, okay, let's put yourself in the criminal mindset for a second.

How would you maximize the value of this? So I'm curious, what what would you do? I don't know. I mean I guess I'm going to go to the back. That's a uh I mean, like they got a h I don't know how hard it was, but they got a hundred grand off that. That's not a lot of money, but like They probably will never get caught.

Right. You could blackmail them. You could say, Elon, I know you're Cheating or I know you're You'll probably get caught.

Right. What could you do? So so those are the so two of the most suggested things were blackmail the through the DMs. Or um Or like short the stock. So a lot of people were like oh dude, if you have Elon's account, you just

You know, post something that you're, you know, you're sick and taking leave or that you're gonna do some crazy shit because you tend to tweet that stuff anyways, and you short Tesla stock, and then that's how you'll profit off this thing. Yeah. And I was like, dude, that'd be the most caught easy to catch thing that that it could be. And Maybe with Tesla because there's so much short volume that like You would just be lost in the sea. But it would be like so obvious if you did it with like Amazon stock or right. So you'd have to say like um

Like things are not going well from Elon's thing or for uh or for uh Bayes you have to say like As of today, I'm officially stepping down. Right, exactly. You have to say you're stepping down

I and like you're the key man risk of those businesses. And so you know the stock market would panic if Elon was stepping down from Tesla or something like that. Now I I don't know. Or you could do the other way. You could be like you sh you should be like we are we are highly considering buying Tesla. Like if you're Ba Bezos. Right. Yeah, one one way to do it would be to send an act, you know, something that's looks like it's meant to be a DM, but actually accidentally got tweeted about like buying some penny stock or something like that. You you take advantage of the pump. Um, I don't know. There there's there's a whole bunch of random things. I I didn't see any ideas that I love, but

I did think it was crazy that this happened. And it's so crazy that there's all these vulnerabilities, I mean through Whether it's email Social media Like the whole world is so fragile, really. Like your people people's lives to companies are really fragile.

And there's all these other like, you know risks that are that just that are just out there. That's very hard to to do, like Slack, for example. If Slack gets compromised and your whole company runs on Slack. And your entire Slack chat history gets exposed.

Like y you know, you could be f screwed. Um, and you know, we just trust Slack and we trust Google Docs and we trust all these things. Should we Well, Sean, you Do what email service provider do you guys use at Twitch? Gmail.

We're G Suite account. Really. So I think at Facebook they don't use I think they use Yeah, Amazon runs their own for a lot of these. Amazon doesn't use Google Hangouts, they have Chime, their own shitty version of Zoom. But it's Amazon's own so they have no risk in that sense. But Twitch got acquired, right? So we use Slack, which they don't get to use, which Amazon doesn't get to use. We use Google Docs. We use all these things because we were

you know, it'd be pretty disruptive to change the whole company's like operating system. Well, I didn't know about this. When I when someone at Facebook was like, Yeah, we use I think Outlook, I was like I look as fucking stupid. Why? And they go, Because we don't want Google spying on us. I was like that. We want Microsoft spying on us instead. Yeah, I was like that that would never happen. And

Now I realize Yeah, it can happen. Yeah, somebody t tweeted this the other day. They they were like, you know, um Can we all just agree that like God mode type features of any app where basically like you know you you have some super admin account that can like see other people's activities. Um like there's all these good reasons why you would want to be able to do that to moderate to fix issues to

Somebody says, Oh, I need this fixed in my account, you're like, Oh, don't worry, I'll take care of it for you. Or yeah. Whatever. Uh, but there's so much harm that can be done with this. And Um

Just a word to the wise. If you're using a startup like let's say you're using some startup medical app. Like oh telemedicine. And you got this, you know, you you you've been a little promiscuous. You came down with this STD and this there's this app that's this new app from Silicon Valley. You read about it in Tech Crunch, and all you got to do is take a picture of your junk and this doctor will prescribe you some medicine. You don't have to go to the doctor's office. Just know

At that eight person startup, there's like six engineers that see every photo that gets uploaded into the app. And there's probably like a Slack bot that's just tweeting about uh that's just posting every diagnosis. And that's usually for bug fixing and shit like that. But like your shit is not secure with startups. Yeah, and that I uh that's something that's outside of my world and I've learned about it recently where um These companies are building stuff. I'm like, Man, you should sell to companies. Instead of people.

And I look at their product roadmap and they had this like SSO feature and I was like, What the fuck is SSO? Like I I guess That stands for what's that single sign on? Sign on, yeah. And I was like, Well just use like la I don't understand. And apparently. I sound pretty ignorant. Everyone's probably laughing at me. Who knows about this? I I guess it's security around

And everybody who works at a big company is like, Oh yeah, you know, when we need to use a service, like if I log in to watch our company All Hands, like I don't know if you do it all hands through Zoom. But like when we do an all hands, you have to log in with your Company Company user ID and password, single sign on. In order to access it. So to make sure that outsiders

can't access your stuff if they had the link. And you have to like enter in your fingerprint. All your metrics, all your uh not really fingerprint, just not your fingerprint, sorry, uh what's that thing called the VP or um Oh like yeah, it's like there's like a USB little thing I have where I have to push into it on my computer and that's my like Hardware password. that I have to use to log into certain to go see my

healthcare benefits or whatever. And by the way, there's companies. that just makes single sign on as a service. It's a great little startup. They just say hey If you want to get your app enterprise ready, you're gonna need single sign on.

Trust me, it's a pain in the ass. Just like you don't want to build payments software and fraud detection and Stripe just does it for you. We do single sign on for you. And I was like when I saw that I was like, Oh, that's a great idea. Isn't that what that company Okta is it Okta? Okta? Okta, yeah.

I think Octa might do this as well, yeah. Yeah, that's like a ten billion dollar company I know nothing about. But any but anyways, so what was I saying? Oh the same thing goes for any like new email client. You're like, oh, this new email thing came out. Superhuman and I'm really pumped about it. It's cool. You could swipe to the left and the right and it's like Tinder for email or whatever.

And you give it access to your email. Like giving access to email is like insane. Giving access to a Chrome extension when it says Uh Chrome extension. We'd like to read and write all Data on every web page you visit. That's insane. It's insane to do all the time. Sean likes midget porn.

Yeah, exactly. Like that's my business what I what I like to do and how small and thick they are. Uh anyways, people are insane. There's lots of security vulnerabilities. Okay, one last topic. Um Oh, I have one on here that's not even Research but I guess we're Why the hell do we use signatures? Like

It's crazy. You just did your taxes yesterday, huh? No, uh no, I'm doing house sale stuff, but uh they're like oh yeah, can you sign this? And by the way, if you if you sign this You know, you're Claiming this, and I'm like, dude, this signature I made with like my pinky on my keypad, and it looks different than every other signature I ever did. And in general, signatures are stupid.

And also when I go to some place and I sign and they're like, You need to sign this waiver. And it's like nothing's in it for me, it's only just liability protection for them. I literally just write the word Jane Doe in cursive. And they just take it. And I'm like, look, if this ever came back to me and they're like, you sign this. I'm like, what are you talking about, dude? This says Jane Doe. Are you crazy? I didn't sign that. Uh I don't understand that either. We when we were doing our taxes, I had to sign some stuff and I'm like

And Sarah had to like she had like wait for me to do it. And like she called me home, was like, Hey, can you come sign this stuff? I'm like No just you do it. I'm what do you just write my name. Like I don't understand. And we'd have not authorized to forge your signature. Like we're not friends. Yeah. Well, I was like I and there was another time where I was out of town and one of our accountants had to like sign a check. And I'm not gonna say the outcome to the story because I don't I don't even know if it's illegal or not, but I go, Can you just like

Like I know what the check is. I hear you. I'm telling you I'm on board. Sign my name on it. Or I was like Video me. E D and I will watch you sign my name on it. Like I it it a lot of people are like No no no we can't do that. I'm like I I I don't understand the intent. Like if the intent is there and I approve it.

Right. Maybe there should be like a uh on the fly power of attorney where you can grant like a one time power of attorney to somebody just through a little video face message. Uh some some startup like that. Okay, here's a little idea that by the way, when I was nineteen using fake IDs I would like s uh find someone who looked like me and give them a hundred dollars and they give me their ID. I remember I would sign the debit or the I would like sign some paperwork. Or like no, I remember what they would do. They would make me sign a piece of paper at the liquor store. And they're like this s I got busted a couple times ago, this signature doesn't look like the one on the ID. And that's how I got caught a few times. Well, yeah, my handwriting is inconsistent. I I don't I don't write much. Yeah, I was like well, I uh I've changed.

Or like I if you're at a bar, you're like, I don't know, dude, I'm wasted. Like mine. I used to'cause my name starts with a S as yours does too. Uh I used to do the the really fucking lame thing of doing that little chain link S as the start of my autograph. Uh, you know, like the three lines, three lines and connect and make a little chain link. And then like, of course, I got above the age of eighteen and I was like, What am I doing? I can't go forward like this. So I changed my signature from there. Yeah. So it could have changed. And you probably opened a bank account when you're like 14 and And now I have to explain why I've changed and then they look at it and they're like, nah I understand, bro, don't worry. Um okay here's a little idea that's sort of interesting about the house sale process that I thought was cool.

So I'm selling my house and I use an agent who's with Compass and Compass has this feature that it's really cool. Then I wonder if it's extendable to other This might already exist, but I think it's a cool little thing to think about might spur some new ideas. So in the house sale process

The agent wants me to invest in my house and like stage it really well. you know, fix up the landscaping, repaint everything. Do all these like fix ups, right? And And I'm like cool, like in theory, like I get it, you know, that's gonna help sell the house. But like also I've already like moved mentally and physically at this point. And like I don't really want to deal with it. Yeah, I don't want to deal with it. I also don't want to spend twenty five thousand dollars, which is what mine's coming out to, to like do these improvements.

Even though logically in my head I'm like, there's probably a good ROI for every dollar I do into fixing this up. I just don't want to pay more money for this asset that I'm selling. Like Um when I'm not even sure if I'm gonna make money or lose money on the on the sale. And so He's like, Don't worry, Compass has this thing where we'll just take it out of the escrow.

So you just say yes. Like, yes, I'm cool with staging it and painting it and whatever within this budget. But like you don't worry, you don't have to write a check. That's what TurboText does. It's amazing. Right, and and I'm like this And it's so stupid that that changes my decision making, but it absolutely does. The fact that I don't have to take out my wallet and pay and I can just say, yeah, take it out of the sale price. When it's the same thing, it's the same exact thing. But

It's not the same thing. And I'm instantly was like, Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah. And then they hit me up like, Oh, by the way, we think it would be good if we touched this garage up too. Can we do that? And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, put it on my tab. You know, it's coming out of the sale price anyways. I don't have to take out a dollar. Yeah, it's way easier to spend money. So I found this to be it's a no interest and they're like, No, it's a no interest loan. And they because they know that hey, getting you to do this will help the sales. So they're like incentivized to to offer this as a service as a short term like two to three month loan that they have to the front.

And um So I was wondering, A is does this exist for any house sale, because it should. I used it. I think they use a service called Notable. So it's kind of an interesting company to check out. I think that company might offer this to everybody. But then I wondered like how many other things are there like this where And get money back.

Yeah, you like it's like take it out of the take it out of the thing. Like taxes is another good one where it's like, Oh yeah, I don't want to pay for your you to do my taxes. Just take it out of my refund or put it on add it to my bill later, you know? And so Where are there other opportunities to reduce the money? out of pocket up front. And I would say a firm or after pay are a great example of this where they're like, Hey, you want to buy this thing on you know, but like

You don't want to pay. The full price for it right now, paying twelve installments of You know, a hundred dollars and you can get it instead of fronting a hundred dollars. That's a great collection. So there I think these are these are great businesses to start if you can find that opportunity where people don't want to pay now. Like maybe it's property taxes or something crazy like that. Maybe maybe there's some Maybe it's uh you know.

I don't know, like income share agreements. This is the same thing for income share agreements, right? It's like No, no, no, don't pay for school. Well take it out of your salary when you when you're done. It's like it's the same thing. I was gonna take a loan and pay it back after I get a job. Yeah.

I just don't take the loan and I pay it back after I get the job. Like as a shadow loan. And so income share agreements work the same way, but psychologically people view it very differently and they're more willing to do it that way. So anyways, I think that's a cool situation. If you're listening to this, you'd know another area where that would apply.

I want to hear it. Yeah, I uh completely agree. I just Like when I was doing my Taxes. I it was the same thing. I was like Oh yeah, just add, add, add, add of that. I'm not I'm like it's free money anyway. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. Sean, I look at your house listing.

It's listed for a lot cheaper than you bought it. Are you gonna lose a lot of money on this or i is the strategy that people are hopefully gonna bid Strategy is just to drive enough foot traffic, drive a lot of foot traffic by making it low priced. And then get at least two bitters and then just You think that's the thing. It

It says my house is sold originally bought for two point four, but that's my that's the neighbor unit. So Zillow has it mislabeled. So I got mine for two point one, not two point four. So it looks like it's at this huge discount, which is not true. It's at like a small discount. Um Do you regret buying one? Yes, I regret buying it.

Would you regret have regretted buying it regardless of corona or not? Yeah, even if I had sold it for like a slight profit or whatever. I just could have done better things with that money, right? Like I had to put five hundred thousand dollars down and it's like that five I lived there for three years like the rate I could have grown that five hundred thousand dollars through other investments would have been much

higher than the rate of my real estate appreciation, or in this case. Depreciation. that I ended up with. Plus Home ownership is just a pain in the ass.

There's just headaches along the way. And renting is way more fun, way more flexible, way less headache. And Will you ever buy it? Well are you gonna buy a place again? So now my'cause I was talking to my brother in law about this is he's buying and I was like, dude He's he's buying an expensive house, like Yeah, five times more than our house. And

I was like Who is crazy? uh my brother in law. And so I was like, Why are you doing this? And he was like He's like the thing you he's like, I always lose money on real estate. He's like, but The thing is

Once you get to a certain point where you're like, I I w I must live in this neighborhood, like I wanna live here. This is the this is the place I want to live because sometimes those places just don't rent. Like they only sell. He's like, so the only time to bu he's like my rule now is the only time I buy is when I really want to get into a neighborhood or to a house that I just can't get for rent. Then I'll buy.

It's my tax. For for really wanting that place. But if otherwise, if I'm flexible, then renting all day. And so I fucking buying a ten million dollar home. People got money, dude. People got money. What does your brother in law do for the He refuses to come on the podcast because he doesn't want to draw attention to to his business and what he does and all that and how much money he's got and all that stuff. Uh he must be in real estate.

Sean's dropped hints. I think he's in real uh I don't know. Yeah, he no, he does stuff in real estate. Yeah. It's it's real estate plus other businesses. Fucking eh. We gotta talk about real estate. That seems like I've always said real estate is the has the highest ratio of dumb rich pe dumb to rich people.

Like There's a shit ton of dumb rich people in real estate. Yeah, I love that line. That that's another good shirt one. Um it is. I mean like if you think about like Not dumb, but like Tech has like a lot of high IQ people, but maybe maybe not as many rich people. Real estate, you don't have to be that smart to be awesome.

Yeah, if you t so the idea is If you took all people who have, let's say, over five million dollars in net worth. And then you said, Okay, by industry, how'd you make your money? And Then you map their IQs and you say which has the the lowest average or median IQ.

It's either gonna it's number one's gonna be inheritance and number two is I think gonna be real estate. Yeah. For sure. What we gotta talk about real estate next time. Um Alright, well

Good episode. Yeah, cool. We're out.

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