Rapid Response: Reid Hoffman on Trump's election and what's next

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Join us at masters of scale dot com slash apply twenty six. That's mastersofscom slash apply. Twenty six. Hey everyone, it's Bob. Today I'm talking with Reed Hoffman, co-founder at LinkedIn and partner at Greylock.

Аба десь елексіодол Трамп з президент. Reed's been a vocal critic of Trump's, but the day after the election he posted online about a peaceful transfer of power. and the hard work of bridging divisions. Re wrote the quote. I hope that the next four years will be our strongest yet.

Reed and I talk now about what those four years might look like. Вот іпакт во би он Силикон Валі. And what business lessons he's taking away from his experience in politics. I'm Bob Safien. And this is Rapid Response.

I'm Bob Safian and I'm here with Reed Hoffman. Reed, thanks for doing this today. My pleasure. Oh I it's always Great to talk to you, Bob, but even in, you know, otherwise difficult weeks. Yeah, so Over the past uh

You put a lot of money behind that effort, you became a public figure in that opposition, even on election day, you released a a video on social media urging people to reject Trump. The country has gone A different way. Um

What what if the Past couple of days. Been like for you since since Trump was elected. Well, you know, obviously

It's this weird place where you're basically hoping you were wrong. Right,'cause there were there were a number of folks who I talked to who were like look You know, Trump's you know, rhetoric on the campaign trail. you know, is extreme because that's the way he, you know, gets his uh news and attention and all the rest. And it isn't really gonna be the way he's gonna govern. So like it isn't gonna be

you know, kind of uh crony capitalism with tariff wars, it isn't gonna be you know, retribution to so called enemies within You know, it isn't gonna be all that stuff that's just kind of His you know, kind of media campaigning and it's actually gonna

you know, kind of snap back to a you know um you know, what's kinda good for business. And obviously Um I Feared.

And fear. Yeah. They were wrong, but now Obviously Today, I'm hoping that they are right. Um

And Um You know and it's kinda weird to kinda have the The Well

I was making a As strong a case I could The other direction. But in this case, you know, kind of I'm I'm hoping that

Um that you were wrong. Then I was wrong. Right. So Yeah, I mean uh the the stock market sure took off once the results were clear, which is an indication that investors feel like Trump and the Republican Party

Are good for business. Did did that surprise you? No um Not really In part because

The stock market tends to respond to Short term judgments. About Things like tax rates or Stimulus packages or other kinds of things. Regulatory environment, that kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And so and so the general anticipation is that someone who is gonna be more

Broadly laissez faire бізнес stimulus. Versus kind of call it Um You know, kind of uh broad based

You know, kind of Uh Lower income community inclusion. Um That that's gonna be

Uh but that will be you know, kind of reflected in Hey, it'll be a good time to be at stock market. Equity holder. Um

And that, you know, w we saw that even in You know, kind of. Yeah. Trump's first presidency. Um

As kind of the initial You know, kind of take off. Uh to it. And so You know, stock markets don't really predict Um

As a as a whole. You know, things that are You know. months in advance unless really everybody sees it. Mm.

I mean, I think I'm not sure. That struck me about the The results from the election. Shows that voters have this strong dissatisfaction about their financial situation. Even though

Really, like the economy hasn't actually been that bad historically speaking. I mean, inflation has certainly taken a bite, but the job market is strong. Why do you think so many Americans feel so Dissatisfied. Look one. I think on most Americans

don't really realize The impact of What all this kind of stimulus And Covid. means. Right. They don't understand that that's like when I when I get a free hamburger today.

That makes sense. It's gonna cost me something tomorrow. It's gonna cost me something tomorrow. And They don't have enough of a global perspective to realize that what Biden

has actually managed as a lower inflation Then in the other. developed countries, right? And so they've actually been better off because of it. All they They know is that it is inflation. It is harder to, you know, make my bills work. And by the way, of course one should feel very sympathetic to that. But

So then when someone comes along and tells them You know. Uh, this person has totally sucked and kind of Um messed up your Your economy is like

Well, boy, it feels that way. It feels that way because Like I I like it's harder for me to make you know, make all the all all the economics work. In my life.

And I'm You know, I'm I'm um On one hand, obviously You know, yes, that's true. And it feels that way, but you don't actually understand that

This is the result of all the Covid stimulus. Right. And that that didn't really Come through this time around. Yeah, and I think part of it is

Look, I mean Among the challenges That I have With A set of people within the Democratic Party

is to say The most fundamental thing that pays for everything. is the success of businesses. from small to large. And so you should always be Pro business, pro business growth.

fundamentally in all of this, even as you try to also get You know. Broad inclusion. green climate change, a bunch of other things. It's not business as the enemy for that. It's business as the tool and getting there because you

you essentially pay for everything. And so the problem, of course, that Then Because there's this turmoil within the Democratic Party. The democratic leadership doesn't articulate as a clear pro business. You know, kinda beat the drum because there's a bunch of people who are like, business is the opponent in this case. And you're like

Actually. fact it's not it's not businesses, but there's some businesses that might be particularly on green, or some businesses that might be particularly having a problem with like, for example, healthcare issues, you know, like tobacco and so forth as as as kind of social costs. But you have to kinda be there. And since you're not there, then when people come along and say, Well, your life is having more difficulty economic because the

The democrats in general are are quote unquote socialists. Of which It doesn't help that some of them do call themselves socialists. Um then that becomes the the kind of the swing vote issue. And I think that's probably the You know, if if one were to make a diagnosis of

the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Yeah. You know. this week's election. It's

Probably that. I mean there's still a p stack of other issues and legitimate issues around You know where it is. The notion of gender and strong leadership play into the culture is of obviously a legitimate issue and one that we should be Yeah, working to improve.

As our culture. And you know, a stack of other things. But My guess is if the economics thing had been more clear to people where they'd felt that there was more decisiveness, you know, maybe the election would have gone the other way.

Yeah. There's gonna be a lot of postmortem quarterbacking and I'm I'm a little loath. to add too much to it. Mm.

But listening to you like Are you from here? Sort of still focused on the political sphere, or you're like, I'm just gonna return to business like What are your next steps from here? Yeah. Um

I mean I generally speaking, my whole Kind of participation in politics has been a weird thing because I'm more naturally a founder, a builder, an investor. Um it's what I've spent.

my entire life doing Um And it's only with a kind of a trying to to help what I think is

the kind of the broader um country on what I think the the the platforms to making the country stronger are that I've kind of gotten engaged. And it was kind of a path where I'd find some Leaders, um

You know, both Democrats and Republicans that I would support and then as it got kinda more directs. You know, I kind of Um You know, find that like the importance of truth telling

In in discourse is one of the things I think is really fundamentally important. Um And So it was you know kind of getting involved in that.

I think all of that kinda means is that You know. It's like okay. Made the you know, the kind of strongest efforts and cases I could.

And now it's you know kind of back to the stuff that I'm much more naturally Uh You know. that I know that my skill set naturally r resolves to, you know, building companies.

Founding companies, investing in companies. you know, what does AI mean for the elevation of humanity? Um, you know, what kinds of new you know, kind of platforms like LinkedIn that can help Evolve because you know. Part of it is bringing prosperity.

to the broadest possible community, what kinds of things can you do in order to do that. And I think that's the Um, that's the focus. I have a book coming out in January called Super Agency, which is You know, how can AI really increase human agency, give us superpowers? Where that that is actually in fact a kind of an optimistic take. I think that's the that's where Yeah, they

Um You know, continuing the mission of elevating humanity, but I think that's where the focus will be for A long time. I mean a lot a a lot of Uh

Democrats Folks who supported Harris. are not particularly optimistic right now. You're you are You are choosing, trying emphasizing optimism. Still.

Um Well look, I think It's a little bit like I said at the at the opening, which is Now. I'm in this weird position where I'm fervently hoping I was wrong.

Right. And by the way, you don't just sit back and hope, you try to you try to help. Like I'm gonna try to grow things within the American economy. I'm gonna try to Make stuff.

You know, work out as strongly and as best. you know, as they as they can. Um And you know, I think I'll have I think if I were to continue to try to play in politics, I think I'd only have negative influence because I think it would just be oppositional.

So I think it's best to be Yeah. trying to add in the things that I can add in. Um Which is, you know, on the business side and on the

the, you know, kind of technology strategy side on the on the investment side. And so I think that's that's that's where I'll be focused. Mm-hmm. So What do you think the future

Of Silicon Valley. will be like under Trump. What's gonna change what It's gonna stay the same. Well I think

It's frankly kind of too early to tell. Um, you know, those kind of call it a hope and a fear. Um, the hope is That you know, just the as I was As I was mentioning at the top of the discussion that, you know, kinda wrong about

Yeah, kind of uh Trump doing grifter capitalism with his own cryptocurrencies and only doing the things that kinda benefit him, but rather Yeah. You know, w working towards the whole

like the platform of Silicon Valley in creating outcomes and and doing that. And if that plays out, then I think You know, then I think Silicon Valley can can can t it it's it's it's perhaps the strongest you know, kind of current American industrial complex, and perhaps it can continue to to really thrive. And you know, one of the things that I've all I've been an advocate for for decades has been

How do we have Silicon Valley thrive and then help make that help the rest of the American industries and country is a way of doing that? And then the fear, of course, is it becomes a Crony capitalist. You know, like Um

Only things for my friends. And Uh not things from my Personal opponents. Um

And In which case I think there will be a A real I think it'll be quelling upon a lot of Like, you know, it'll be a reduction in the economic outcome. Like one of the things that I think a lot of people on track is

For the a majority of the scale. uh Silicon Valley companies over half their revenue is overseas. It's one of the kind of very strong exports. And it's like, well, if you're if you're quelling it and kind of screwing it up, You're then causing

um, you know, kind of a reduction of the flow of economics into the country, which You know, fundamentally. However, prosperity gets divided through taxation, through s local spending, and else you need successful export industries in order to do that. And Um and you know, so Like you.

Like what you want. As a country as as many strong export industries as you can manage. um of vigour and strength and and the I think You know, kind of uh our current best is all the tech, and probably given we're living in a technological age continues to be such. And so it's that's part of the reason why you get back to well what am I doing?

You know, well what I'll be doing is trying to build those really strong You know, kind of American Yeah. uh scale export industries and then have that You know, be bringing

prosperity into the US and then trying to make sure that as much as as we can. You know, I do this both through companies and through Philanthropy like opportunity work. Try to get the rest of the country. Benefiting from the jobs and economics.

from these industries as well. Hm I mean Uh listening to talk about sort of not knowing what the what the next Trump. term might

look like might actually be like. I mean a lot of the the listeners on the show are business leaders themselves. And it sounds like you're saying like maybe it's a little early to be thinking about Adjusting strategy. I mean lots of businesses are excited about the prospect of a of a Trump administration, obviously, but your is your advice now to sort of Wait and see is there are are there Things that

You know, that you think businesses should be looking at should be thinking about Moving on now. Well, probably the principal thing would be planning on volatility a little bit. Right. That's kind of the combination of hope and fear. Like the if like if

Probably my Direction would be Think. of some unevenness. Like for example, if if tariffs actually happen and we have a tariff war that's terrible for US export industry. We'll reduce

uh American prosperity and also increase costs across a lot of things for folks. So obviously we try to make sure that that doesn't really happen. Um And You know.

Where where we would see that it would be kind of more grifter capitalism if it's only happening in this industry like it's it's happening in a s in a way that would would only benefit Yeah, kind of.

certain industries at the benefit uh uh in certain or certain companies Versus other than that. companies in the industry and so forth, then you know that you're Not gonna be kind of elevating the whole platform. Anyway, see, it's it's it's a it's kind of a prepare for

multiple options, I think is probably the Not one plan, but plans before. Do you have any insight? Yeah. Not really. Um

I suspect that the whole like we're gonna rescind the executive order on AI is probably similar to the we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna, you know, throw out Obamacare. Right, which is the We actually don't in fact have a better idea.

Um, and so we're gonna campaign against it to show why the compl the earlier people were complete idiots and and terribly bad. Right. But actually in fact We don't have a better idea, so actually we're just gonna keep doing Their idea. Right,'cause you know, here we are.

You know. Uh after You know, a complete Trump term. Um and

there was no repeal of Obamacare. Um Mm. You know, so I I think it's probably similar, but you know, that that obviously could be different depending on

On You know. Um Various folks being in the mix and And kinda what the

what the conception of AI is. The one thing I would say that I think is is What I'm hopeful for is that the belief in The the enablement of the American

AI industry across multiple companies is a in fact, I think, extremely important. And we'll see whether or not that's what's playing or if there would be a There will be a Uh a um You know, kind of a

uh a crony capitalist. uh play and you know, obviously hope for the narrowing. In other words, a narrowing of opportunity. Yeah, and fear uh fear uh fear fear about the second. Mm.

Has the the election outcome your experience in this like Has it Change your perspective at all about the the role that business and tech leaders like yourself. should play in politics and in civic activity.

Um I've stumped you? No, I'm kinda thinking about it. Look, this is obviously a week of a lot of a lot of processing Because you know, I was really

Um putting in as much energy as I could to Try to articulate. Um You know, kind of

What's some Really key things about I think what an important part of the future of Vision is and You know and while

Um, you know, it's really interesting that you know, all come all said and done, Trump won the popular vote. You know. One of the things to obviously remember is is that the Um

Mm. Is that You know, even winning the popular vote, it's like It's like Uh

Like I A a very like the country is very divided. Right. And so It's a question of how do you get to unity,'cause even if you go, Well, we won the popular vote by A million.

You know, out of You know. Hundreds of hundreds of millions. Yeah. Yeah well not hundreds, but it's probably like more like rounds up to hundreds. Right. Um And so

um you know out of votes, it's like okay, well that's that's that's that's winning and winning the popular vote. But it's like there's an entire country here. And so And so I think that the Fact that

Um Look, I think it's gonna be important that The tech is more and more is increasingly as as shocking as this is an increasingly important part. Of American society, our life, our work, our productivity, our creation of new industries, et cetera. And so tech leaders being involved in in essentially the what the political discussion is about

what this means for us as a society and where we should be going and what it means for like how you invest in business is also what your tech strategy is, I think is actually very very important. I just think we need to get to a uh what I want to get to is a a much better discourse about it. Um, and that's what I that that that was the pausing is like, how do you get there? And so it's kind of reflecting of You know, what I think is, you know, kinda the problems with a lot of social media and the problems with like

Yeah, I think it was great what Mark Cuban was going on shows. You know, I myself, um, Uno went on some shows that kind of talk about it and having Discourse I think is really important. Mm. I mean you you said you don't wanna have like a negative or or oppositional influence with the Trump administration. But it t it doesn't sound like you'd be

I I don't know, restrained or shy about speaking out again on Any issues that you felt like warranted it during Trump's next four years. Like, are you chastened in that way or are you like Now if something comes up I'm gonna Speak my mind.

Okay. Ultimately Um I will speak my mind. Um I think

Times where you feel fear of Call it. political persecution or retaliation.

Our times were especially People who have some spaces of power need to speak up to give the kind of A voice to it and B shelter. So It isn't that I'm planning on being

Um Silenced. Um but it is Um Uh

It is beholdened, I think, upon me and One folks to say, look. you know, we're in this boat together. Let's try to make this boat work. And precisely

Part of the reason I was so opposed to Trump was creating division. And like You know, kind of You know anything the division that leads to like the January sixth insurrection or

you know, kind of, you know, speeches about enemies within and use of the military for that and all the rest. I think all Um Extremely unhealthy. uh for the country, for the democracy, and so forth.

But that means that like You know. Uh what then my work becomes is like, well, okay, how do I make you know, the i what are the tools available for me

In the next. You know. Four years. To make the country as successful as possible. What are the things where I can contribute in good ways and

Um Like I I just don't think the one One should ever adopt a let's try to make administration X unsuccessful. Um

I think it's a let's try to make the country as successful as possible. And I think that's You know, part of I think You know. Can be great about business and American business. That's the thing that I will

you know, be trying to do and and my Tools will be You know. Um creating the next generation of

Of you know, I'm kind of hopefully amazing and And industry transforming tech companies. So that's that's why I think the The the play.

But of course, like if a g if it if it's like oh look it's a whole bunch of really crappy tariffs You know. Uh Comment on it. Yeah, in the same way that

that you know, I got a bunch of grief for commenting on You know, Lena Khan's you know, tech and M and A strategy. Because Talking about what I think is

is important for the health of the country. um is something I'll do when when I think it's useful or helpful. Uh for me to do so. Mm. I mean I

I guess one of the things you know We're at We're at a point where It could be that though the White House and both houses of Congress Are controlled by the same party, which doesn't happen very often in American history.

And the you know, the checks and balances that are part of our System. Maybe more You know, more leaning one way.

You know. business leaders in businesses like Play a role in that checks and balances process? Sort of You know, in terms of what's at stake. For the country and and that prosperity that you talk about?

I think business leader. This is one of the things I think people misunderstand about business, which is Or some people. Which is business leaders are not business leaders businesses are actually made to be very adaptable.

They're made to adapt to uh customer and market demands are made to adapt to Um, you know, employee you know, kind of culture actions may do it out to shareholder. Interest and demands kind of as the kind of lowest common denominator across them, and to be broad based on it, they're made to be adaptable to regulatory and government pressure.

Um, you know businesses are not Or not um You know. Ball works. Against

Um you know, kind of antagonistic political pressure. Um That's the whole like, hey, a whole bunch of my customers are both Democrats and Republicans. Hey, a whole bunch of my shoulders are both Democrats and you know, so the the they're adaptive. They're not like the the the check and balance.

They're the Oh, this is this is what the rules are. Okay, great, we'll follow these rules. Right. You know, and if you say on the rules of chaos, then the answer is okay, well then we're gonna be very cautious and we're not gonna invest very much. Right, if if you have If you have you know, like really antagonistic rules or very broken rules. Um, and that's part of my worry about

You know kind of. you know, crony or grifter capitalism is is is is it causes an enormous quelling across the entire the the entire ecosystem. And so it's like no, that's why we want rule of law. That's why we want to be encouraging everyone to be building stuff because it It matters. And it's also one of the reasons why

Yeah, bad regulation can be really bad and part of the, you know, kind of Would I want to speak out against that? And so anyway, so that's the um Uh You know, that's I don't think

Expecting business To be Um Uh I think it'll be a It'll be a Hey look, our voice in as much as we have one is

Let's just allow a bunch of business to prosper. But on the other hand, of course, you can get regulatory capture by large industries or by industries that have Disbalanced. Yeah, or companies that have disbalanced political power and other kinds of things and you know, then that can create Yeah.

Problems. Mm yeah, no, I I I guess I feel like um For a generation of people, you being part of it in in some ways, sort of making the decision that like You could have more impact.

on the future as a business leader. Then maybe going into the political or civic realm. And and You know, and I wonder whether you feel like That

Is shifting at all? Well, I do think it's important. I think business leaders are leaders, and I do think that even when it's kind of an unpopular opinion, Gee speaking up against uh political power that might retaliate against you. is I think, you know. Like when you have

You when you have a bunch of wealth and position and power. It if you you're not the one who's who's willing to speak up then, you know. then because you know it's courage is easier, right? So So have that courage, I think is really important.

Um but on the other hand also of course You know. One of the things that people have to realise is that they is that That um The

That You know kind of. Businesses are responsive are are made to be responsive to the environments that they're in. Right.

They're not like Where like you know, for example, you know In this moment a bunch of democrats. you know, people within the Democratic Party who hope like oh business will stand up to To to oppose

The Trump agenda. And the answer is Broadly, then The answer is like how do we continue to make our businesses Uh thrive and prosper. Um

Which will mean for jobs and a bunch of other stuff. And so what's the environment for doing that? is the primary question. And I look I think fundamentally as per the optimism point that you made early that you asked about and made earlier. Look, I think

Optimists are what build the world. And so you ultimately have to, in whatever circumstance of adversity Uh this is the folks who may feel particularly disheartened is like okay. How do I

Yeah. I I may think that things are gonna get turbulent and difficult. but how do you build positively? you know, is in each case the question you need to be Asking and that's you know.

Uh Uh I think that's always available. No matter How challenging times can become. Mm. Well, I I couldn't agree more.

Read. Um Thank you. Thanks for uh Thanks on and sharing with us. Bob, always a pleasure and I

I suspect we'll be talking again soon. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Rapid response is a Wake What original.

I'm Bob Safian. Our executive producer is Eve Tro. Our producer is Alex Morris. Assistant producer is Masha Maku Tonina. Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastanelli. Theme music by Ryan Holiday. My head of podcast is Letal Mlad. For more, visit rapidresponsehow.com.

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