Jazzercise: Judi Sheppard Missett

When I started this class, you know, I had many dancer friends and They said to me. What in the heck are you doing? And I said, What do you mean? They said, What your Bastardizing the art of dance.

And I said well I you know, I'm doing this To help these women. And they're feeling better about themselves and They're happy.

And plus I'm able to teach them an appreciation for dance that they never had before. So now When they come to watch you, my friend. Perform.

They're gonna appreciate What you have to go through To do what you do. From MPR, it's how I built this, a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements.

They built. Guy Raz and on the show today How Judy Shepard Massette became one of the first people to turn exercise into a business. And that business into a brand. Chazer size.

Still around and outgrosing a hundred million dollars a year. By Southern California standards? My mom was a bit of an outlier. Back in the early 1980s, our kitchen pantry was stocked with things like quinoa and carib beans and Ezekiel bread, and our fridge was Packed with things like Hicama and Rainbow Chard and Sprouts.

At school? I looked enviously at the other kids as they feverishly pulled out Twinkies and Hoho's and Fruit Roll Ups from their lunches as I unwrapped an Ezekiel bread sandwich stuffed with avocado alfalfa sprouts and tomatoes. My juice box was the school water fountain. And my mom was already practicing yoga in the late nineteen seventies, and she always had a keen interest in new fitness trends. So in the early nineteen eighties, she became, for a brief moment,

an early adopter of jazzer size. Saturday mornings, she'd move the coffee table in front of the TV, pop in the jazz or size video, and start to warm up as the theme song played. On a screen, a group of mostly women moved their bodies to a combination of novelty and disco songs. It was all about constant movement, hip gyrations, high knees, toe touches, a mixture of dance and aerobics. Come on now! Tone up that up!

For torso, yeah. And then It. Kind of ended. The Leotards, the leg warmers, the white reebox.

All packed away. And Shazer's eyes seemed to Fade away. Or so I thought. Because Jazzer size today

is a one hundred million dollar business. with more than 8,000 franchise locations around the world. But even more significantly The story of Jazer Size. is really the story of the rise of group fitness in the United States.

And unlike celebrity driven workouts like Richard Simmons or Jane Fonda, Chazer size. very intentionally focused on its program. Rather than its founder. Judy Shepherd Massette.

But Judy is probably as important to popularizing group exercise in the US As Julia Child was to Teaching Americans about French cooking. Because before Jazzer Size was created in nineteen sixty nine, Exercise was considered a thing mainly for men.

and it mainly involved lifting weights. Now, Judy never intended to turn what started as a dance class into a multi million dollar business. It just sort of evolved into that. And the Jazz or Size phenomenon also happened just as the technology of home video was starting to take off. And Judy figured out how to tap into that audience before anyone else did.

But long before all that happened, Judy intended to spend her life as a professional dancer. For as long as she can remember. Dance was the central thing in her life. My first encounter with dance was in Coronado.

in the San Diego area and my mom and I were out walking and There was a dance studio and the Kids were in the studio dancing and so I wandered in. And my mom just

kinda let me stand there and I started dancing and trying to do What the kids were doing. I was about two and a half. And the teacher came over to my mom and said, You know what? This little girl I she's got She's got a gift. I think you better find a dance class for her. Wow. And my mom said, Well, we're moving to Iowa and he said, Well you look up somebody in Iowa and get her in a dance class. So

Yeah. You know, it's interesting because you you can see that sometimes little little kids. About in the soccer field. You know, you can just there's a little kid who just their little body, the way it moves, just intuitively understands the game and and and so I'm not surprised. And so when you When you went back to Iowa,

Did your parents do that? Did they put you in a dance class? Oh yes. We move back to Red Ok Iowa. My parents were from that area in Iowa. And My mother was

An incredible woman. She was An awesome mentor for me. She found a Dan's teacher. And um they took me to class and I because I was the littlest kid in the studio. there in Iowa and so I

Danced in my first recital when I was three. And I did a solo. And you know, eventually As I got older And I got better.

I needed you know, different instruction. And the instructor that I was going to was originally from Council Bluffs Omaha area. And she moved back there, so that left me without a teacher. So my mom uh is very uh energetic.

And she went to Omaha and she recruited uh some of the assistants of my dance teacher to come to Red Oak and open a dance studio So that I could have lessons, but also She promoted it within the town so the other kids in town could have lessons as well. And then I

got a little bit better and better and finally We had to drive to Omaha to Yeah. so that I could continue to progress in in my dancing. And that was fifty miles round trip. So she would take me

Two times a week. Now. At the same time. Everybody in town said, Well, Judy, why don't you open a studio? So I was thirteen.

And my parents fixed up the basement of our home. And made it into a damn studio. And wow. Yeah, and about Gosh, three months I had a hundred

Little Dancers, little students. You were teaching dance when you were thirteen? I was, yeah. Judy, what was it about? Because from the time you were two and a half, somebody recognized a natural talent in you and then and then clearly you loved it. Yeah.

What was it about? dance that you just connected with. Yeah, well I I don't know exactly what it was, but I just knew That It

Made my life better. You know, no matter what I was going through. Dance was always the thing. That got me through whatever and I still love it.

You know, I love teaching, I love doing choreography, I love taking class. I love everything about it. And what kind of dance was it? Was it like jazz dance or tap dance or ballroom dancing? What what were you doing when you were, you know Ten, eleven, twelve. I was doing Tap, I was doing ballet, I was doing jazz.

And it wasn't until I went to Northwestern University that I got into any kind of modern or contemporary dance um but primarily it was tap ballet jazz And acrobatic. Because I'm um very flexible.

Still even today. And so um I was You know, that that was a crowd pleasing kind of routine to perform when you're doing all these acrobatic tricks. So I you know, I think also I love performing. I love being on the stage.

And The neat thing about What I do today is that My audience is an active one. And

When I was dancing in the theater I had a passive audience, you know, they were watching but not doing. Now today I'm dancing on stage and the people in front of me are dancing too. So My ego is fulfilled because I still get to perform even though I'm teaching.

Yeah. So I mean The thing I think It's important to

a good dancer. You were like the equivalent of a division one athlete in dancing. Like you y at a I think at age fourteen, like you joined a touring company and then You would spend your teens. Touring in shows that like West Side Story and Funny Girl and Hello Dolly. Like you went to New York and Chicago and Atlanta and Miami. I mean you were you were a professional

Performer. Yes, and that's really what I hope for. To be able to do more performing like that. Um

I got to Chicago, where I went to school. I also was mentored by a fantastic Jazz dance master his name was Gus Giordano. He has passed since then, and But he really gave me so many opportunities. You know, I dance with his professional company.

I taught in his studio He was a tremendous mentor. So you get to Northwestern I think around nineteen sixty. And this is really before, you know, universities would become kind of hotbeds of radicalism and the hippie movement. I mean this is still the the early sixties were basically what we think of as the fifties. And uh and what do you remember about I mean it's

probably a much more conservative place than it would be today, right? I mean it was I don't know Or or was it? Did you feel like Liberated in in a sense when you got there. Yeah. I felt liberated.

I think people were more open minded. Uh in that university culture. Which I really came from conservative Iowa and um Northwestern was not. And I love that.

And and of course As we advanced through the sixties There were many things that started coming to a head, and especially in Chicago. If you remember The late sixties, which

I lived in Chicago through all that. So um I felt bless that I was able to have that experience and

Make up my mind about a lot of things. Yeah. Um that otherwise I if I'd stayed in Iowa I might have just followed my parents ideals and this way I got to figure out what mine really were and my values. Hm.

um, I think at a fairly young age, like twenty or or twenty one, you got married to Uh, to a guy named Jack, uh, who you'd met at North Western. Yeah. We met on a blind date and it was during the summer

And it was sorta love at first sight, really. Um And When I graduated and Jack was still a senior At North Western he was a journalism major.

We got married. Well. Wow. And and and I guess Jack eventually he got a job as a reporter uh for the the local CBS station in Chicago and Pretty soon after that.

You guys have a daughter, Shah. Yeah, yeah. But you know Back then she was born in nineteen sixty eight, the end of sixty eight. I had to

Disguise my pregnancy. so that I could continue to work. I was doing choreography for a uh Um a club called the Gaslight Club. Well They weren't they would be uh

afraid of hiring me as a choreographer and a dancer um that something might happen, they would be liable. You know. And so I was Working for them. doing choreography and

I needed that job. I this was a really good So I just uh I was very careful about weight gain Um I wore cloth that pretty much disguised it.

Two days before I delivered China, I had done a um a bunch of choreography with his club and nine months pregnant. Yeah, nine months, yeah. And so And then two days later I delivered Shannon and I was supposed to do rehearsal that day and so Jack had to call them

My husband and say You know, Judy won't be in Because she's in the hospital. And they said, Oh my gosh, did she get hurt or what happened? And he said, No, no, she had a baby.

She had a what? Did you adopt? And he goes, No, no. She w it's our child. And they were Bowled over. So um

Unbelievable. We laugh about that today, but hey, you had to Those kind of things you had to do. Alright, so you are uh a young mom and you're also uh working at at Gastrodon's

Jazz dance company in Chicago. Yeah. And and I guess uh You start teaching dance classes there to Like to other young moms like you? Yeah.

I was teaching uh jazz dance classes in the studio. And I was still working, you know, in the theater. I had an agent and was doing stuff like that. As well. And I was teaching in the morning. Which tends to be a time when a lot of stay at home moms would take class.

And they would come take a couple of classes and And then I never see him again. And I was like Oh my gosh, what In the world is going on. So I thought

Well, I don't like this. What am I doing wrong? And I I went to talk to some of them and they said well, Judy You know, we like it. But you're teaching it like we're gonna go on and be professional dancers And we we don't want to do that, but we do

Wanna look like a professional dancer. We wanna have those bodies. And so, you know What can you do for us in that department? And and I thought Wow.

That's really interesting. Because by then I'd kinda gotten into the whole fitness thing. Which Nobody really was into much of at that point in time. Yeah. I mean this is nineteen sixty sixty eight sixty nine, yeah.

Fitness wasn't a thing. I mean there were Jack Lane was doing things in California and right there's w but but It was something you did to look good if You had time to do it, but you know, not a lot of women were into it. You wouldn't like see people jogging around the lake in Chicago in nineteen sixty eight. Not too often. Okay. You you know, there would be some. Uh but not like today. Anyway, so I I thought, okay.

Can I try something different? Kinda, you know. to reach out to these this whole new group of people that we could bring into the studio who uh otherwise wouldn't come to a dance studio. And

And you said sure. Why don't you Take that empty studio that's downstairs. And try a class once a week. And so I put flyers up in the studio to

Promoted. And and and just to and just to clarify, what what were what were you advertising? I mean you you were teaching a dance class, so how was this gonna be different? What did you call it or what did you just how'd you describe it? Well, I Called it to something like jazz dance.

For fun and fitness. Right. And so The first class I had fifteen people. What I did was I turned them away from the mirror. I made the movement simple, easy to follow, and I told them just follow me. I will be

Your mirror. And we'll we'll have fun. And we'll do movements that will But It'll be fun.

And you play music? Oh yes. Oh yeah. They didn't have cassettes then, but um. I had I used albums and records. Thirty three, seventy eight, forty fives, you know, all of that. You just put a record on, and what kind of music were you playing?

Well, I played things that you were hearing on the radio. You know. So there was variety. Soul songs like The Temptations or the OJs. A lot of songs from different Shows, musicals. You know. Девула а тай.

That was always fun because then people felt like oh I'm dancing on Broadway, you know Hm. So Did you did you have to map it out or did you kind of just intuitively just say, you know what, I'm just gonna kind of move a little bit this way and then I'll move this way and we'll just see how it goes? Yeah, I know. I mapped it out. Okay.

Tell me how did you do that? Well, I just thought, okay, um, how would I do this if I were Producing A dance concert. So

You know, there would be an opening number. And they're There would be lots of Fun. Different kinds of numbers, then there might be a slower number.

And then of course there would be a finale and it was all based in jazz dance technique because that's really became You know, my the expertise I had was in that really. And I think the class was forty five minutes. You know, we did a the last number kinda ended on a bang and Everybody applauded and it was like Whoa That was it's over?

Is it over already? They always would say that. It's over already, oh my gosh, it went so fast. And When I did the second class I had

Thirty people. Because Each of the fifteen brought a friend. And then the next week I had sixty people.

And the room wouldn't hold any more people. And I thought, Wow. This is pretty darn cool. Yeah. But

I will tell you A little wrinkle in all of this, okay? When I started this class, you know, I had many dancer friends and They said to me What in the heck are you doing?

And I said, What do you mean? Bastardizing the art of dance. Oh yes. Uh uh yes. I was waiting for that to happen.'Cause you're a professional. Yeah. You're a professional. This is an art form. Now you're just turning this into some nonsense exercise? What are you doing? Right. That was it. And and I said, Well I you know, I'm doing this To help these women.

And they're feeling better about themselves and They're happy. So I don't think there's anything wrong with it. And plus I said, you know These are people

That would never come to a dance studio. to just take a dance class because it would be a little bit intimidating for them. But They're coming here. So I'm

able to teach them an appreciation for dance that they never had before. So now When they come to watch you, my friend. Perform. They're gonna appreciate what you have to go through. To do what you do.

So I I you know I wouldn't take any of that guff from them because the classic story of the professional practitioner popularizing something. It could be the story of of Headspace and Andy Putticom, who was a a Buddhist monk, but who brought that to the world through meditation. Right, when you're a practitioner. And then you try to create something that's more accessible. Your friends who are like, Hey, this isn't pure they're gonna come after you.

Exactly. That's exactly right. So so the women who were coming to those classes were saying to you, Judy, I really want to I wanna look better. I wanna have a better they would say a better figure, I guess, at that time. Yes, they would say that because, you know These were women who really Mm-hmm.

So once you put a little movement into their lifestyle I mean you know The pounds came off. And and by the way, I mean, what's so remarkable to me is that today the fitness industry and I don't know the exact numbers, but I would venture to guess that most of the revenue in the fitness industry overall comes from women, not from men. That there's so many fitness programs, whether it's bar or yoga or Zumba or Jazzercise or whatever they may be that really

are dominated by women, but in the sixties and seventies it sounds like That there was really that culture just did not yet exist. No. It really didn't.

You know Today a lot of people say, Oh well Judy You pioneered the whole thing. And you know I guess I could

I would say that's the right. But You know. There was um The Lottie Burke method. Right, who came to the US and was doing

Pilates, right? Yeah. Bonnie Pruden, I don't know if you remember her. Yeah, she was doing things for uh women. But It was kind of

I don't know. It was Very feminine. And you know, let's not Sweat too much. That type of thing.

Whereas I because I'm a dancer, I'm used to sweating all the time, so I was giving Mission. To you know hey it's okay to sweat and it's okay to work hard.

And it's okay to feel how your body reac to the movements that you're doing. And you know, if you feel a little sexy doing it, that's okay. And I was always proud that I was able to give.

A lot of women The feeling of power because they got in touch with their body, they they got stronger and healthier. Through what we were doing. Yeah. You know when I was when I was researching For this interview, and one of the things I came across was

that in the sixties apparently, in the US at least, there was new research that came out that really touted the benefits of aerobic exercise, which I guess started people to think, hey, maybe we should start to do this. Do you do you remember that people talking about aerobic exercise is good for you? Um I remember a little bit of it. Yeah. And actually more in the seventies. And then of course there was um The Air Force exercise book. And you know the special things that people in the airforce did. That became kind of popular. Right. That was like a huge deal. I remember that. My I remember my mom t having

Those books. But you know, the thing is It still Was geared more toward men. You know

I had an experience While I was developing this and teaching this class. Um in Evanston after my daughter was born I had been going to the Y in Evanston and swimming and stuff while I was pregnant. So

After I delivered her I went to the Y and Went back and I was doing things they had a testing. of fitness and I thought well I think I'll do that. So I went And and they said, Well, you know, we don't really have any charts for women. So we'll have to base

You're outcome on you know the male This is like how many pull ups can you do how many push ups can you do sit ups can you do that kind of stuff. So I said, Well, you know, that's okay. You can You know, scale it down or whatever you want to do. And afterwards they're like Holy smokes.

What do you do? And I said, Well what do you mean? They said, Well My God, you're better than a lot of the guys that come through here. And I said, Well I dance. That's what I do.

They said you're not a runner or you know, a swimmer or anything. I said, No And They were You know, bowled over, and so that was another motivation for me to keep doing this class. You know.

Yeah. And I'm just curious, after uh'cause this is the late sixties, early seventies, after these classes ended, Did any of the uh any of the women who took it would they like Light up a cigarette? Oh sure.

Yeah. Oh yeah. That's you know. Oh my gosh. I never smoked. So I could never understand it.

Yeah. But I'm just imagining the corridors outside that. That class, that jazz dance class. And if you say dancers are notorious for s being smokers.

You know, because I I You know, they they always had the false impression that smoking kept their weight down. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All this stuff. Um you've got a a a baby girl.

And you're teaching dance and and you're also staying active in the in the professional world. But I guess a around like nineteen seventy two, um, like there's some major changes at the at the T V station where Jack is working, and he uh he loses his job. And and And I guess I'm not sure. you sort of prompt you guys to move out to to California, is is that right?

Well They fired forty people. Wow. And Jack was one of'em. Um And so it was like Okay.

We have savings. And he has A family. Out here. Which was

You know, nice. Then of course there's just The Chicago weather. And We thought

Oh, it's so pretty in California. And my agent in Chicago said, Well, you know, if you go, I can still get you jobs. out in LA. And I thought Okay now I hated leaving Gus. But

He was so supportive and he goes he just said to me, Chooty You know, go with your family. And see what happens, you can always come back to Chicago, so yeah. So really it was a this is kind of like a lifestyle change. You're both young, uh a young married couple with a little kid and you settle in San Diego. Right. And I guess you could find work pretty quickly Fitness, is that was that your plan that you would just find a place to to or or teach dance, rather? Was that your was that the plan?

Yeah, well I I don't know that we had a plan. We knew we had enough money saved. That we could Figure out what we wanted to do for a year or so. You know.

And we actually Settled in Oceanside, which is North San Diego County. Right. And I thought, okay, well, you know, I'd like to try teaching this class Dance for fun and fitness or something like that. So I just found

some parks and recreation departments and and told them what I was doing. And everybody just was very Open. And like, oh sure, let's see what you can do. And the YMCAs, a couple of them. And you know the

Southern California is so Body beautiful and healthy. Conscious even back then. And and I mean at this point, right, Judy, in in your story

You are now an entrepreneur. You are now A business person, even though I cannot imagine you thought of yourself that way. Oh, you were just like I'm gonna teach some classes. Right. Did did you have like a sense of what you were gonna price the classes at or or was that not even a priority for you? You didn't really care.

She I didn't care. Frankly Money has never been a a motivator for me. I Just wanted to try out this class and see If people would like it. How did they know about I mean the first time do you remember the first class you had? in the San Diego area after you moved there? I mean

I guess you put up maybe some flyers or Yeah. Did I mean how and did lots of people show up? That Well, in the beginning In oceanside it was at the

Pier recreation center, it's right off the ocean and the pier. And it was a nice size group, maybe ten people. I mean It was better than two. And although I've taught classes to two people too, but but after I finished the class they were like What?

Is this Oh my god. This is so much fun, I gotta tell my friends and They did. Well and we come back in just a moment.

How Judy started teaching so much that she almost had to stop. for good. And how that obstacle? actually helped her take the business. to the next level.

Stay with us, I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This. N PR. Hey, welcome back to how I built this from NPR. I'm Guy Raz. So it's the early 1970s, and Judy Shepard Massette is teaching her dance classes in the San Diego area. So I know you guys moved to Oceanside because your husband had family there, but

But what's incredible about that area is obviously it's where Camp Hendleton is. And and it had this massive population of human beings, right? In the military, many of of whom or or most of whom We're men, uh, because it it's a marine base, right? Yeah, but they had families and girlfriends and wives. And wives. And is that who

Started to come to the classes? Yes, it the local people And some That were involved in military. Now

What happened was I got all these requests for classes. And as these requests for classes came in, there were more and more, I just kept saying, Okay, yeah, I can teach that and Trying to figure out the schedules, you know, and But I I would have

A hundred people. In the class. Can I Empty of course, where people will just like shove five bucks into it. Yeah.

I did have that. Not at the Y, but at the when I did parks and recreation In Carlsbad. They collected the money. But then. It got to be so big.

It just Ballooned. And you know, just tons of people. And then I

Noticed. I wasn't getting paid. Mm. And I Went into the director of Parks and Rec.

And I said, you know, um I haven't been paid in a couple of months and I really could use the money. And um

He said, Well I know, but It's quite a bit of money. And I Have to turn this in.

To get it approved at the city council, and it's just kind of embarrassing that here you are. You know, this Little exercise class and You're making all this money. Wow.

W what was his problem, though? I don't know. I think it was his fear. That People would think I was making too much money. And

That you know. I'm not I I wasn't a doctor or a lawyer or you know, I was teaching fitness Yeah. I didn't deserve to be paid like that. And it was

Just people paying five bucks a class or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Well not a class a month for eight classes. Wow. So So w what did you say to him?

Well, I said Really? Do you think that I don't have training in this? Do you think these people are all coming? For no reason. Because there's a reason why they're coming.

And the reason is me and and I'm doing a good job for you. So I said I I need that check. And I need it. Today. By four o'clock because

If I don't have it I I don't know if you know this or not, but my brother in law's the publisher of the local paper. And I think that might be a really good story he would be interested in. And he goes, Oh well. You wouldn't do that. I said, Well

Uh no, I won't do it if I get my check at four. And Well w we'll see. I I don't know. That's short notice. I said no no no it's not short notice. It's it's I was supposed to have it two months ago, so You see what you can do, and I just turned around and walked out. I was so mad.

And I went back at four. And the secretary was there, and she handed me an envelope. And I opened it up and inside was the check. So what happened out of that was eventually this guy quit and there was another guy that came in and so I talked to him and I said Why don't you let me collect the money and

And then I will pay you your percentage and I will keep books and I will do You know, the whole thing. And he said that would be much easier for us and you I said yeah, everybody wins. So you started to collect the payments. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's what they would do. They would put their money in a can. And sign their name on a piece of paper and There it was. And I'm just curious, back then

'Cause I ca imagine it wasn't the c today music rights is very complicated, you gotta pay a million people. Imagine back then you just kinda played music, right, in the seventies and you didn't you didn't have to worry about that as much. No. I didn't know that was something you needed to worry about. I found out later, but yeah. Please do, because I did use quite a bit of Eric Clapton. So there you go. Alright, mean time

The name Jazzer Size, I guess, kind of pops up around nineteen seventy four. How does that name 'Cause before then you were just Teaching d dance for fitness or whatever. Yeah. And and how did the name Jazer size come about?

I had a Customer in the Lahoya Y where I was teaching. And she said to me one day You need a name for this. And I said, Well What have you got in mind? And she said

Why don't you call it jazz or size because It's exercise. But it's also jazz dance. And I think Wow. Yeah.

Like immediately you thought, I love it. That's great. That's perfect. Yeah, I did. I I liked it right away, but I had to think about it a little bit more and then I liked it even more. It kind of says it all. And then my husband said to me, Da I like are you gonna use that name? And I said Yeah, I think I will. And he said, Well, you know, you might think about copywriting it. Hm. I

S. In my classes in Carlsbad I said Does anybody here know anything about, you know, copywriting anything? IP lawyers. I P lawyers named Yeah, and uh and this one woman came up to me and she said, I work for my husband who's an attorney. And my dad is a copyright attorney in Washington, DC for Westinghouse. So I think I could help you.

She looked it up and and she and I filled out the form, sent'em in and we got the name. Hm. Mm-hmm. And Were you I mean

I know that m you were never that interested in money, but was it is it w were you making enough money to actually sustain your life at that point from just teaching classes? We were. We were. Now, there were times when Jack took Occasional jobs.

One Christmas He was a Santa. Another time he worked in a bakery. 'Cause he just wasn't that interested in going back into news. He'd had job offers.

But he just You know He liked taking care of Shanna and And He liked seeing me do what I was doing. He was very supportive and so

Yeah, we were getting along. We weren't lavishly, you know living, but It was yeah, it was fine. Meantime, you were

You got to a point where 'Cause this is like pre sort of I mean there were microphones and PA systems in the seventies, but not like there are now, where you could just wear one on your hip and or you know, it was like Bluetooth wireless. Like th they w and they were expensive. So I think you were like I'm imagining you were shouting things out like and they don't now to the left. Right. And in the back. To the right. Okay, stretch it. And you gotta like pump people up, right? This is like like you watch Peloton today and they've all got like, you know, wireless mics around their you know, their whatever the mic mask or whatever they use. You were just shouting this stuff out, right?

That's exactly what I was doing, yes. Um By nineteen around nineteen seventy seven. I Was teaching about thirty classes a week.

What? Yeah, you know how did you do that? Well my body was okay. But my voice By the end of the week. By Friday.

I was whispering. I I had no voice. Wow, yeah. So I went to the doctor. The doctors said Okay, you have nodules on your vocal cords.

Oh. Um I can I can help you with them. First of all you have to stay silent for five days. And let the swelling go down. He said then

You gotta figure out you gotta do something differently. You know, with what you're doing. He said maybe you need to quit teaching so many classes And um You know.

I you know, I was Devastated because that's scary. He said if I didn't do something Differently, I would lose my voice permanently. So um I stopped talking for five days. Actually, Jack kept the notepad that I used to communicate, you know.

Like Get me a glass of doctor pepper or whatever. Yeah and so during those five days I had time to think. And

I thought Maybe I could train some people to help me. If I picked Women who had been with me in my classes for a while and who had dance

backgrounds or physical education backgrounds. So I train five women. Gave them the choreography notes, got the music for them. About a week later I got all these calls from other

Customers saying oh Judy, thank you so much for training these instructors because We knew you were gonna cancel our class and we just didn't want that and now You've got help and and they were great and thank you. And uh

Wow. That was such a relief, you know, off my shoulders. Hm. But but what about Your voice.

I mean how how are you gonna uh keep from losing it again? Well In the meantime. I went in search for a microphone for myself. And

Let me tell you guy. Uh It was a search. I went through every kind of mic there was. I had lav m lavalier mics that hooked around my neck, but it was so big that it would bounce on my chest and when I got done teaching a big old bruise. Finally.

I found one that was a lava layer mic that was smaller And had a kind of a big old batter pack, but I could get a belt. Clip it onto the belt and then stick the Lovelair, you know, on my Leotard. And that worked pretty darn well.

And it amplified my voice and my Nodules. Went down. And As I trained instructors, they all got microphones like that.

So I really believe I was certainly the pioneer. Of all that. Yeah. So all those Peloton instructors can thank you, Judy. You're welcome, Peloton instructors. So I m this is a big turning point that now

You realize that you don't have to do everything. You can actually have other people do it. Yeah. W was a part of you just worry that that even if you were gonna train people to teach these now jazz or size classes that They they wouldn't be able to do it. to the quality and level that

You expect it of yourself? Well, there were two sides of that. First is Yes. I was worried about that.

And the second thing was I was worried that they'd be too good and then nobody would like me anymore. Yeah. Yeah. You know My performer ego Kinda came to light there, but it it worked out. And then

As I got More requests for More classes for new classes, the requests were coming. From all over. People were coming from everywhere, so

Now I was Come to my Little rented house in Vista, California and um train. Okay.

I had a lot of women Who were either in the military or they were Uh Spouses significant other you know

And They got deployed or they got they had to move And they wanted to keep teaching. And they said, Well, you know, can we and I said

No I guess so, let's try it, but it's really hard. To interpret the written choreography. into r the real thing. But

Guess what came out on the market about that same time. Home recorders and video cameras. Yeah. And my husband had a background and Broadcasting. So he said well Um

Videotape you And then The instructors, whoever it is, we can send them the tape and then they'll be able to see the real live thing. What It was brilliant.

We were able to expand on a more national basis because of that. Because eventually we didn't have just two video recorders. Our living room in our little rennet house in Vista was filled with recorders. Wow. So that's just copying, copying, copying tapes and setting them out. Yeah. Wow, w wh which of course meant that That that Jazz could go anywhere in the country, right? Like

Like anywhere w anybody who had a video player. Right. And you know, we had these military people moving out and then other people, for example, there was um one of the gals who was in my class and she wanted to become an instructor, her husband was the quarterback for the Cleveland Browns. Wow. So she went to Ohio And then of course

As she taught People in her class wanted to be instructors. And she said to me, Judy, can I train Some of the they all happen to be wives of the Browns.

And I said sure. Okay, let's break this down a little bit. When you first had these How did you structure it? How did you make sure that, you know, you You know they Because you d it wouldn't be fair if they just took your idea and then just charge people and made money from it.

Train those first instructors. We worked out a commission. process that they would pay me a certain percentage For the choreography and the instruction and the training And then the rest of it they could keep.

Mm. then when people started moving to other parts of the country The instructors continue to pay a percentage back to Chazer's eyes. material and by the way

These Instructors, just to be clear, they were not like Going and getting a brick and mortar studio that's a jazzer size. They were teaching jazzer size at like community centers just like you were doing at like IMCAs and rec centers, right? Yeah, and a lot of'em even in church basements and some churches had gymnasiums so that worked for them. And by the way, that's still the model to this day. It is, but we have a lot more brick and mortar now.

Yeah. Well I and of course eventually I Stop. going out and at my own brick and mortar. But

Now I I realized I had to have some help with this organization. It was just growing like crazy, and so The woman who had to help me with the copyright I asked her.

Would you be able to come and kinda be my manager for all of this? Hm. And she said, Oh my God, I'd love to. I don't want to work for my husband anymore. And I wanna get my MBA. So she said I can do that and work for you and

Her name is Margaret Stanton. And she was with me for over twenty years. Wow. And became my CO. I mean so cool and By the way. Before we go on, voice feeling okay?

So far so good. Okay, great. I read That In nineteen seventy nine, this is essentially eleven, ten, eleven years after you

started to teach what would become jazz or size. You finally incorporated the company like it was not an incorporated business until nineteen seventy nine. Right. So I have to imagine by that point you thought, All right, this is a business. This is what I do now. Yeah.

Well, I had to. I mean, it was growing I brought in a another woman who kinda helped me with marketing. Then I'm Had to Get an accountant, of course, and an attorney and

I actually asked A couple of people to be Workshop. trainers for me. So The new instructors would come to the workshop and

And I wouldn't have to train them, but these Designated. Women that I trusted. Were then the trainers. That was a great thing to be able to have them

Do that. But then all of these instructors. They're all independent contractors. So n you know, we're getting There's like a thousand of'em now. And they're all over.

Hither and thither. And my Accountant and my attorney they said You know You're gonna have to make a decision here.

Because You're asking more from them. than just being an independent contractor. So You don't fit into that niche and y you're gonna get into trouble. If you don't make some changes, and I said, Okay, give me my options. And they said, Well

You can make them employees. Or you can make them a franchisee. And I this is Like nineteen eighty. Round eighty eighty one. And I

And I said Okay, well I know what employees are, and I don't want to do that because All these women feel like It's their business.

You know, they know they're tied in to me. But they have a lot of options and it's their own business, and I don't want to take that away from them. So they said well then franchising is the way to go. But you know, at the time Franchising.

So we Turned it around and we made it into a franchise and I didn't lose one instructor. That I can remember. Everybody understood it, you know. And how did you set that up that they would basically pay a franchise fee up front and then A percentage fee every month or something like that? Correct. Yeah. They would have a low franchise fee which really pay paid for their training. And then

They would have a continuing franchise fee, which would be monthly based on the amount of money that they took in. And you know, that worked well. And in fact In the eighties There were two Big franchises.

Us. And Domino's pizza. Which is kind of ironic because it's sort of like well, Domino's kinda kept us in business and Then we would get people fed and they could go eat their pizza, you know. So It was a trade. Yeah.

Um, from what I understand The model that you put out was very Unorthodox and And and really interesting. I mean I I guess at the time initially the cost to start

A jazzer size franchise was five hundred bucks, which is Very doable. thirty percent commission rate that would go back to jazzer size. That enabled somebody to kind of start up quickly, recover their startup costs pretty quickly, and then they're off to the races, I guess.

Exactly. And even today our startup fee is only twelve fifty. You know, one thousand two hundred and fifty dollars. But so you had that expense and your wardrobe And you know

It's a little bit more involved than that. We have better sound systems Um, for people who have brick and mortar, it's gonna be more expensive. But they have control of that as far as If they do have a brick and mortar, if they don't build it themselves and they rent it, it's you know their rent and their build out and all that.

Did you did you go out to seek Any money to I mean, did you need money? Was it just entirely self funded? Did you go out and look for loans or to to to investors or anything like that. Well, we were doing fine. We never really had to do that, and there was one time that

Um Margaret, my COO, said well, you know. I think we should try to get a line of credit. Just in case. W something big comes up and and we need

uh money for it. And so we had been banking with this one bank in Carlsbad. And they're Corporate headquarters were in LA.

So We go to LA. We have all of our Papers all of our ducks in a row. to show them how well we're doing and everything.

And so the gentleman Looks through everything and I could tell. He wasn't impressed. He looked at me and he said, Well

Looks like you're you're doing really well in the southern California area and a few other Places But he said, you know, I just don't see this as being something That will grow. And you know, it's it's an exercise thing and I just don't know if that's really gonna catch on.

No. That was it. Yeah. And out the door we went, well You know

Here we are, guys. Fift one years later. And still thriving and that bank went out of business like seven years after I had talked to that guy. So I don't know, who's the smart one here? When we come back in just a moment.

How in those very early days of fitness marketing Judy stumbled on the idea that there was money. And merch. Stay with us, I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to how I built this. From NPR.

Hey, welcome back to How I Built This from NPR. I'm Guy Raz. So it's the ear 1980s, and Jazzer Size is starting to franchise and it's starting to make money. And Judy? Is starting to make a name for herself. I had written a book.

In the late seventies with another woman who happened to be in my class. So we wrote this book with pictures of how to do different exercises and, you know, a little history of dance and all of that. And the publisher was Bannem Books. Which was uh quite a large uh publisher.

And my husband said well What are they gonna do to market the book? And I said, Well I don't know what they're gonna do to promote it. But The Dinosaur show was um

Big. Huge. Just a national talk like Chacha, right? Yes. And I had this one woman who was helping me a lot with marketing who was gregarious and good and she just kinda kept after'em and after a few months, absolutely they called me and off I went, did the show and it was very successful. The book sold over four hundred thousand copies. Wow Which is at the time I didn't know if that was good or bad. It didn't sound like it was very good to me, but that's insane. That's insane today. I know, I know. But anyway I

You know, okay. So Then the interesting thing was I Went on this show, but I thought before it went on I thought, you know, I need to wear something that says jazzer size on it.

And I had an instructor who was also a artist and a good friend. And I said, Connie. Can you design like a logo? And we'll put it on the front of the Leotard. And she designed this cute

Chaser size and had a Exercise dancer. Yeah. And

I wore it on this show. Well. When I taught class the next day, it was Everybody came up to me. Where can we get those leotards? We want we want those, you know. And what about a T shirt? And I was like

Oh my gosh. So I went to Connie. And I said, Hey, do you want to Go into business with me a little bit.

We'll make some T shirts and some Leotards and sell'em in class and see what happens. So that's what we did. And we sold out in two days. Wow. And that was the beginning of Chazer size apparel.

Which is a big part of our business today. Was Judy was there. in any way a connection between

The women's rights movement that really kind of began to take shape in the seventies around the equal rights amendment. and the rise of Jazzer size. Was was there any kind of conscious or unconscious connection that you felt recognized. Well you know

I was always an advocate. for women's rights ever since my northwestern days. But I have always tried to keep jazzer's eyes A political, a religious, you know. All of those things, but on my own, I was always uh

vocal about women's right And I was always proud that I was helping Women. Become business people.

And A business. Yeah. They could

Use and Hopefully thrive with. So In my own way, even though we were not You know, standing on our soapbox preaching women's rights, we were doing it in a subtle way, and we still do today, of course. Um

You know, really the the my my earliest memory of jazz or size was when I was a kid. This is in the early, early eighties, maybe eighty one or eighty two. Um watching my mom. in the VHS machine. I always remember the the theme song. It was like the San Diego Zoo and there's the elephants and there was on the beach and it was Jazz Let's go jazzer sizing. Yeah. Exercise and I'll never forget that. And and I remember my mom, who's now seventy five and in incredible shape and

and's been a yoga practitioner and she was always experimenting with um with what was coming out and trying these different um fitness um programs and Jazzer has a big part of that. Um But as you became Bigger. And as this became

I mean I think by nineteen eighty three from what I understand you You're you were this like a forty million dollar company. It was a this was a major Enterprise. Right? Yeah. Um around that time you start to see

Celebrities, Jane Fonda. starts to get into this business. I remember Olivia Newton John, let's get physical, right? Wearing the leg warmers and all that stuff. Like that was a thing. It started to become a fashion trend. What do you think about it about that. What do you think about the celebrity kind of

entry into this into this space that really was Pretty much you at that point. Yeah. Well It never really bothered me because

I felt like The People who were celebrities, and of course we have Richard Simmons as well. You know, all getting into it. It just gave people more awareness. And

Then they could pick what they wanted to do. But I Don't consider myself a celebrity. I am the founder of this program and this company.

And we have many, many, many people who are representative of the program in our instructors, whereas the people who are celebrities are pretty much Chas That's the same. You know, they were just one person. We were thousands of people, and you know, there were times when

You know, I've met Jane and all those other people and We've gotten awards all of us together. And you know, it's it's always very friendly and It it's always been just fine.

So the eighties really just boom. I mean, I think in you went from, you know In nineteen eighty. one or something, two million dollars in revenues in nineteen eighty three, fourteen dollars. Just massive rapid growth. Yeah. And then the nineties happen. And a few things happen in the nineties. For one, yoga starts to become more popular, and Pilates. And

From what I understand, the 90s would turn out to be one of the hard if not the hardest decade. for jazzer size. What happened? Я і вас і вас. You know We'd been around for a long time.

And our we were having instructors retire. And when they retired Their classes. Weren't You know, replaced. We weren't enough people who were who were becoming new instructors, essentially. Right. Right.

So we weren't able to hold on to some of those customers. But one of the things that we did is We put together a new structure. To help us with that problem. Called a jazzer size associate.

Which is an instructor Who doesn't run a business. Who only tices for instructors who own a their own chazer size business. So Now

If an owner decided to retire Usually there was an associate who could take over and And keep The customers and keep

The classes. That worked really well. Right. Yeah. Th this is

I mean This is gonna be a a sort of a slightly annoying thing for you to hear. There is a perception among certain People. who know about Soul Cycle, let's say, or who go to, you know, yoga classes, or Pilates, or do Peloton, or

Even Zumba, that that jazzer size like So of you know, every once in a while people say, Oh, is that still around? And still around. Yeah. And how do you feel when you When you hear that. Does it an does it frustrate you? Um well

Sure, it's a little frustrating, but I Certainly accept it and understand. Why people might Yeah.

The thing about it is We're really thriving right now in a time when a lot of other businesses are not. And a lot of other fitness businesses are not thriving. When people say, Oh, is Jazzer still around or are they still You know, doing what my mom used to do. Well

I say to them, Stop and think for a minute. Would we still be around? If we were doing the same things. Of course not. The reason We're the only fitness company

that started way back when That's still thriving. Is because we've made Good choices. We have change through the decades.

N we've never stayed the same. I know that there are like eighty five hundred jazzer size franchises. around the world. Um do you know off the top of your head how many brick and mortar Chaser size.

Locations there are? Yeah, I think there's about a thousand. Well. Around the world. So So that's things change, you know, but and it's still just twelve hundred bucks to start a franchise. Yeah. Right, twelve fifty. And then you pay it twenty percent

fee or every month or whatever from receipts. And and in the Covid era, how have you guys been able to weather this? Because you depend on Instructors selling classes and then paying you a share of those classes now it's mostly I have to imagine it has has had a

Has been a challenging year. Yeah, it's been challenging. But We're Really doing

Quite well. We we were able to pivot. Almost overnight. The minute our classes shut down We were able to bring our customers all over the world.

On to our jazzer size on demand app. So that They wouldn't have to miss class. Because they could do'em online and with this app they can do'em At three in the morning or whatever works for you. So

That really kept a lot of our customers with us. Now, granted, sure We've lost some. But as time has evolved, we not only have Those kinds of classes available, we also helped our instructors be able to live stream. Their own classes to their own customers.

So They've been able to keep them. Um One of the interesting things that I came across and'cause I I confess, I have never taken a jazzer size class. I I've I've seen the videos of my mom. I remember the but I've never been to one.

Well, those are old. So you need to go. I do, I do. I I I need to do it. Um but from from what I've read and seen Um the classes actually attract a significantly more a group of clients than than like a Soul Cycle or or Yoga class. And I guess part of the reason that that people say or or or believe that it is is because the price point is actually

fairly reasonable, right? Like how much does an average Uh exercise class cost. Well each franchise is different depending on the area that they're in and so forth. But the average would be maybe around seventy nine, sixty nine dollars a month. And you could just take as many classes as you want.

Right. Right. Which is cheaper than many like you know. Oh yeah. Yoga studios and stuff, yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of options and The diversity

Is what we love. And we always say to our franchisees When you look out At your customers. You should be seeing

All kinds of different people. All kinds of body shapes. All kinds of colors and ages. And because somebody who is older, sixty five Can do the class

Right along is somebody who's twenty five. And you know, you make friends with a Twenty five year old or a twenty five year old. goes to coffee with uh you know three fifty five year olds and everybody enjoys it.

You know, Judy, I'm I'm I'm wondering. As your business grew, right, from uh from a little dance class at a rec center into a into a now a a one hundred million dollar business. Mm-hmm. Did you like Becoming a CEO.

Did you Did you like running a business? Because I mean you always wanted to be a a professional dancer, right? So did did that Side of it. come naturally to you d w w was was that something that you came to embrace?

You know Uh it was fun. I mean I think it did come naturally. To me, even though My mother used to say when I was growing up,'cause she was such a great business person, but she always would say, Oh, Judy you'll never be a business person'cause you just don't have a head for figures. But let me tell you

Yeah. The secret, I think, to anybody's success is Having people around you Who lift you up? People who

Our passion and About your passion. But who have their own passion that they bring to the party. And I have Ben.

Extremely lucky in being able to have those kinds of people around me all the time. They're smart. And I want'em to be smarter than I am. I think That's one of my gifts, to find people like that. and and and let them help me. Because

Goodness knows I don't know everything. Mm-hmm. Well it's also a smart strategy because you can't scale one person and and and also if you want to build a legacy company, right? You want to build something that doesn't need that person. That's exactly right. And I've gotta tell you, if something happened to me tomorrow This company would go on. It would be

Wonderful. Hm. When you think about your journey. And all you accomplished.

and the influence you've had. How much of that would you attribute to luck and and And how much would you attribute to just hard work and You know. Skill and intelligence. Yeah, I think it's fifty fifty.

For me, that's really what I feel. I think, you know Timing has been right in so many instances which we talked about. But then You know. The timing can be right and it can be sitting right out there in front of you.

But if you don't take advantage of it and you don't have the awareness that this is something you gotta do and you're gonna have to work your Dairy air off to make it happen. Then it it ain't gonna happen. City. You

Or Intending to be a dancer. That was your dream and then a maybe a Broadway performer It was never your plan to become a fitness pioneer. Like when people Talk about fitness pioneers of the twentieth century.

They're talking about Jack Lane, and They're talking about it. Richard Simmons. They're talking about Judy Shepherd Massette. And I'm sure I'm forgetting a few others. But I mean You really

Created A movement Would you ever when you reflect on that, that you are Like historically an important figure in the history of American fitness. Is that just crazy, that thought?

Yeah. It is. I find it Still hard to believe. I'm very honored. Buy it.

And I respect it. And I feel responsible. But Yeah, it's still It's still

Often difficult for me to believe because You know, at heart and this might sound sappy. But at heart I I still feel like I'm that Little Iowa girl.

You know. Growing up in the Midwest, having that hard work ethic and Get up in the morning and do what you can and make a difference. So If I can say

That I've made a different. In Somebody's life. And More people than I would have thought.

I I will Die happy. I will. That's Judy Shepherd Massette.

Founder of Jazer Size. By the way, Judy's daughter Shanna is now president of the company, but Judy is still the CEO. And she is still teaching and still dancing. In fact, some of the women who first signed up for those early classes in the nineteen seventies are still taking classes with Judy today. And once a week, They all get together for coffee. And even though she's one of the iconic fitness gurus in America.

Judy swears by Dr. Pepper. Especially cherry flavor. Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can also write to us at hibt at npr.org. And if you want to follow us on Twitter, we're at how I built this or at guy. And my Instagram is at guy.Roz.

Our show is produced this week by Jed Anderson with music composed by Rum Teen Erablui. Thanks also to Julia Carney, Farah Safari, Dereth Gales, JC Howard, Neva Grant, and Jeff Rogers. Our brand new intern is Janet Lee. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening. to how I built this. This is NPR.

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