How great cultures are built and rebuilt, w/Eric Schmidt, Angela Ahrendts, & Uber’s Dara Khosrowshahi

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When you have a team whose values are aligned and they trust each other, to me it's no different than the Warriors winning or a great rock band. It just unlocks the creative thinking, it unlocks the innovation. Turnarounds are just different. Right. You need to make clear what the goals are.

And you need to deal with all the people issues which you undoubtedly inherited. You only have six to nine months to change the culture of a company before you're stuck with it. Ultimately. You got to be authentic. And

Only if you're authentic. can you then affect authentic change with an organization. That's Angela Arrenz, the former CEO of Burberry and former head of retail at Apple. Eric Schmidt, the former CEO of Google. And Darakas Rashahi, the CEO of Uber. The three appeared together live at the Masters of Scale summit to address the question.

How do you build and rebuild a great culture? I'm Bob Safian, former editor of Fast Company, founder of the Flux Group, and host of Masters of Scale Rapid Response. I wanted to share this lesson packed conversation now. Because with AI poised usher in an era of radical change. The idea of building and rebuilding a business culture has never been more central. And Angela, Eric, and Dar are all accomplished culture creators.

Angela reinvented both Burberry and Apple retail. Eric, as the first outside CEO of Google, scaled the organization to new levels. And Dara had to renovate a much scrutinized workplace at Uber. The three share personal stories and insights Including what we can all learn about culture from Steve Jobs. From our fellow office mates and even from our own mistakes.

It's great stuff. Let's listen in. Welcome to the Masters of Scale Cafe. We have we have our we have our coffee here, you know, it's breakfast and You know why we're at a breakfast table, right?

Because culture eats strategy for breakfast, right? We've we've heard we've heard this line, right? So everyone wants a piece of this of this culture conversation. You all have been in the center of of culture. So Angela, do you want to start? Do you have a a story about culture at at Burberry or at Apple that Was particularly evocative for you. I was leaving Burbury and going to Apple. And and of course they left six months in between. And so a lot of time for the sixty thousand employees to really, you know, kind of figure out who I was and why this girl from fashion was coming in, et cetera. And and a and a lot of comments on how he was gonna flip everything and change everything.

So I literally started my first week and the head of HR and the head of PR they bring me this email. And they're like, Would you sign this and we're gonna translate it into thirty languages and send it out to all the employees. Like We're in a YouTube, Instagram, we chat world and I'm gonna send an email. And at Burbury, we had done videos every week. And so I said, We're going to do a video. And they're like, Okay, well, we have a studio over here, hair make. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.

YouTube videos don't have studio lighting and hair and makeup. This has gotta be authentic. We'll do it in my office with an iPhone. It's gonna be three minutes, one take. Three thoughts. Just A thank you. We're gonna turn ourselves inside out.

Because I you need to tell us what Apple needs to be doing more of in your community. You have a voice and we want to hear you, but we didn't have the mechanisms. Shooting the video. Хафва май фон ринг. And it's my Youngest daughter.

I picked it up. You okay? Yeah, great, I'll call you back in two seconds. Finish the video. Now this is Apple. Everything has to be perfect and And I said no, send it out.

And it was a bit of a battle. I said one take. It has to be authentic. So they sent it out. And literally the next couple of days. Thousands of emails. Thanking them for communicating on video because they could feel me.

Thanking me for taking my daughter's call. Because it proved I was a human. But it helped set the culture. It helped galvanize the teams and make them realize I'm just like they are. I'm just a part of the team. So what are you thinking hearing this story?

It reminds me of a lot of conversations I've had with my leadership team, which is There's a distinction between Management. And leadership. Right, management's about the head.

You I might be someone's manager because of the org chart. Mm-hmm. The leadership can come from Any place, right? Leadership is about the heart.

And it reminds me of uh Authenticity that you bring back. Was the ліderшіp style One that was more about the head and then you had to bring the heart into it, or did that play into How you thought about culture change? Yeah. You know it's interesting because

I always said that I thanked Steve for me turning around Burberry because we were the first to buy the iPad and and digitize everything in the stores, et cetera. So I was a pretty good student on the company and very quickly I learned that all of those retail employees, they just revered Steve. And he told them they weren't allowed to sell. that their job was to enrich lives and they needed to do it through the lens of education through his products. And so I knew that that culture, you know, already existed. And so I just honored it. I just said that I'm only going to pick up where he left off and take it to the next level because I want to make him proud. And so I think when you're creating a culture, You know, it's different if you're a founder, but when you walk into something so big and so perfect and so successful, it's not about me. It's about me becoming a part of it and just evolving it and making it better. I uh I wrote a book about Bill Campbell. My coach, you guys knew Bill both well.

And um He spent half of his time working with us. But what he really did is he fulfilled the human mission that we as executives kept forgetting. And I what I learned from Bill is you have to actually spend some time on this. So now what has happened is there's been this uh view that you should bring your whole self to work, and now we're being forced to crawl that back because your whole self is maybe not what we want in work. And so I think that the the the the story you told

Is exactly correct. But you could imagine variants of it which would be not correct. And we're navigating a new world of that perception. Mm. Did you struggle with that about how far you go? How much you bring or show of yourself.

You know no, because I You know, again, I took the job at an older stage in life. I wasn't a kid And luckily I had done it. That had turned out pretty good.

I would say the higher up you go. The more authentic and the more human you need to be, where I think it's often the opposite, you know, and ego kicks in and it's like you said, it's not about managing. It's about inspiring and encouraging. And I've always said, I'm just the enabler, I'm the connector. I just bring in incredible people. We build a trusting and then they're empower to go. I'm not the smartest tool in the shed.

And the universal law of management I've seen is The higher up you are in the organization. the less you really know about what's going on. Absolutely. Right? Like everyone talks to you in paragraphs and there's a beginning and a middle and an end and they're and and they prep You know, there are prep sessions for the prep sessions. So I I I think you're absolutely right, which is

The only way to get an organization to be authentic with you is if you take the first step and be completely authentic and transparent because Everyone's got a good BS meter. Right. And if you as a leader are BSing your team They're gonna B S you right back.

So I think that authentic leadership and really opening up to them it's And especially when you're doing with sixty thousand people around the world. This was long before this hybrid thing we talk about, right? We were already hybrid any global business, right? So um Dara, you you're mentioning sort of Whether you get all the information you need. You came into Uber and you you know there were cultural challenges.

That you have. This is only for half an hour? That's uh Yeah, exactly. It it you know, for me, what one is that We're still going through that cultural journey, so we're not done by long shot, and I think that You can never say. Hey.

Put a pin in it, we're done. The the minute you're done, like you're done. You're in you're in a really bad spot, actually, I think. But but for me one story that stands out was uh weekly all hands, we do weekly all hands in front of all employees and and we answer a bunch of questions. And Uber, of course, was this enormously successful company that ran into real cultural issues.

And was trying to relate to that because When I met the Team. really wanted to have terrific impact. You know, these were not bad people by any means. And there was a lot of the culture that was great.

But then some issues that were problematic. And at this all hands a question that was voted up was What are we going to do about our PR problem? You know, we were in the news constantly about an issue, one issue after the other.

And I got Up in front of the company. I said, Listen, we don't have a PR problem. We've got a us problem. Like first we have to fix ourselves How we act, who we promote, et cetera.

then the PR can follow because ultimately especially in this world The substance always comes out. You can't pretend anymore. So I think that was a pretty important moment where I said those words in front of the company.

And that allowed me that opened the door for us to start making some significant changes. But we are still on the journey. We've got a long way to go. Mm.

Eric, what are you thinking hearing this story from Dar? The problem that you were doing is a turnaround. Whether you called it a turnaround or not. And turnarounds are just different. Right.

And you have to get everyone's attention on the short term. You need to make clear what the goals are. And you need to deal with all the people issues, which you undoubtedly inherited. And I think that your example is just one of the twenty things you gotta get right, which of course you did. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Right. It's a real test of leadership. Yeah. Well it's a c a question sometimes too about like what what if the culture changes and what of the people change like are there people you have to move?

Or do you just have to adjust the environment so those people operate in a different area? And I don't know how you answer that question. I said, what's the first thing I should do? Uh he said, Fire someone. And What he meant.

Was That's when people start taking it seriously. You know, they your team's gonna kinda listen and they're gonna go right back to what they were doing. The minute when you actually make painful changes is when

The organization in a turnaround. Nose dirt. That's serious. By the way, the the number Eighty percent of the management team will turn over in a turnaround. It's just a question of what the rate is.

How soon it happened. Yeah. Yeah. We're we're at about 50-50, so we're okay. And everyone's staying, no one knows it's going. This is this is not a threat. I mean Angela, you had you had a to do a

Kinds of conversations not unlike Doris talking about. Yeah, and I think I think like you said, you know, you pull everybody together, you gotta be transparent. And you can tell by looking in the audience at your top one hundred who's going to be on your team and who's aligned to your strategy and vision and and not mine, by the way, the one the team had put together. And funny, my first offsight of Burberry literally three days in.

And I looked out in the audience and I said, I can tell you right now who's not on board, and I am very happy to give you an incredible package. Will be a great reference for you, but Y everybody needs to be a hundred percent in or we're not gonna win. I I'm curious as to what Eric said. For Uber it was pretty clear it was a turnaround. For coming into Apple from Burberry it wasn't Did you have to state?

Whether this was a turnaround or keep Keep going the way you're going, et cetera. Yeah, no, no, I said the opposite. I said again, the most successful retailer on the planet, five times the productivity of any of its closest peers. And so no, I had to honor and respect what was built and say

Might sound odd, but I don't know what to do, so together. You know you're on the front line, and that's why we're gonna put all these communications in place so you can tell us and you can problem solve. And so almost the opposite. And I said, I know there's things we can do better inside of the store. So what are those? And I know but

But we actually did a huge crowd sourc exercise with And and the and the teams kept growing as we were rolling out more stores. And we said, in order to inform the new in-store experience, we asked them over the course of six months what did they feel Apple should be doing more of in their community? And that's when that informed the whole experience. But it involved them. So then when you launched it. I mean you could ramp up to you know, twenty, thirty thousand sessions a week and they owned it'cause they were part of creating it. Angela, Eric, and Dara show here that a cultural reset requires both urgency

And respect for the past. After a short break They'll explore how to foster communication within your company and how to find the authentic cultural practices that work for you. We'll be right back. When you've built substantial wealth through your business, it's often tied up in a single equity position.

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Learn more at creative plating dot com slash masters of scale. Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show because every Friday we release a second Rapid Response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely for From Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there. Humans will never be more intelligent than AI. There's gonna be two types of companies.

Those were great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future? That is human centered. I'm Rana El Chayubi. And on my podcast Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone. Every week I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future, and we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives.

Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Before the break, we heard Angela Arrenz, the former Burberry CEO and Apple retail chief. Eric Schmidt, former CEO of Google, and Darakashahi, Uber's current CEO. Talk about the foundation of building and rebuilding a great culture. Now the three iconic leaders share deeper insights.

Including what supports a must win mindset. How many opinions are too many? And how to learn from the smartest people in your organization. Let's jump back in. Eric, you you asked our question uh and sort of identifying that this is as a turnaround, it's different.

So what's different when you're building Let me tell a turnaround story because I think it's it's very much consistent with this. So A long time ago I I was recruited to be CEO of Novell. And Novelle was headquartered in Utah. culturally extremely different from

where we are today. I mean, trust me, very different. And I you know, I was sort of naive but well meaning. So I show up and I sort of meet everybody and I ask for advice and everyone's very generous. Bill Gates said spend eighty percent of your time on eighty percent of your revenue. Good advice. Um Jim Barksdale said, if it's a snake, kill it. He had a whole bunch of Texas sayings that were very funny. And and what I did is I took a notebook and I wrote everything down, and I found myself on, you know, one of these United Flights and coached next to somebody who wanted to give me lots of advice. I had five hours of note pages People were really helpful.

So here I am and I start meeting people and so forth, all sorts of problems in the company. And the company at the time had a little shuttle, you know, knee to knee. I said I can't quite figure out who the really smart people are. I'm I'm just

casually saying this,'cause I'm an elitist, right? And the and and my friend says Find one and they'll know the others. Okay. Good advice. So I'm sitting there and this guy Right. He's like brilliant.

And I go, Stop. Okay. Give me the list of the ten smartest people in the company. Okay. Yeah, when write down.

And I put it in my little briefcase, go to the meeting and I give it to my assistant. А сей ван All of these people. come to my office each for half an hour and I just want to listen to them. Okay, so a week later, I'm in my office in Utah.

And The first gentleman comes in. And he's White. As a sheet.

I've never seen someone so upset. I thought well maybe this is like Utah culture. You know, they're just like it's like not a normal place, right? And we're ch and he's nervous. He's like really nervous. It's one of the smartest people. And I said well.

Okay, I'm sorry to ask you, but why are you so Upset. You're firing me. And I go. What?

In Novelle, the way you're fired is it's a thirty minute appointment with no agenda. Yeah. And I realized that I had notified the top ten smartest people in the company. Right.

So so What So so and I have a hundred examples of Eric's stupidity of that nature. But here's what I learned. What I learned is that

Culture does trump everything else. You think you understand how people work and you don't. And you have to take the time to listen. So at that point I decided I would go get Utah training. And this is code for Mormon. And so I would sit down and I would listen and I would learn and so forth and actually work with them. And that produced a good outcome.

The other thing I learned, and this is from Lou Gerstner. Who said who had written a whole book on this and his IBM turnaround, he said You only have six to nine months to change the culture of a company. before you're stuck with it. And when you and I met, when you took over the job, I told you that. And you executed against that, whether you knew it or not. It was originally a Lou Grisner principle. Once in a while I listen. Thank you, Dara. But like I I'm c curious, Dara, because like

Culture comes from the bottom. But also you're put in place to kind of change it from the top. Like how how do you how do you balance those two things? You know, it it's a tough balance. We actually you were talking about crowdsourcing. We originally crowd sourced the new culture the компані. because I had to move fast. Once in a while I listen to Eric. Uh and and and we wanted it to be I I was a bit of a foreigner there, right? It I I didn't know the company. I wanted to understand what the company thought. So We crowd source a good bit of our culture.

Bottoms up. And For me, there was a great outcome, which is The culture very importantly stated. What we weren't.

Because the company really wants to separate itself from the past. There were some parts of of the culture of we make big bull bets, et cetera, that that we retain. But at the same time Because it was crowd sourced.

It didn't have a strong enough point of view, in my opinion. Because you know, if you crowdsource if you get the average of twenty thousand people what their opinions are, you kinda get to the average opinion. You're not getting, you know, the really juicy stuff what makes it different. We've actually now revisited our cultural norms and some of them we've kept But I I found that it's a combination of

bottoms up, but then it does have to come top down as well. You've got to put your own stamp on the organization. I didn't have the permission to early on because Uber had such a strong culture, et cetera. Once I got there after a couple of years, I had the permission with my team.

And now I think we're in a pretty good spot. But the the journey keeps going. As you're talking about the I'm I'm reminded so there's a a book that uh Ed Catnell, the founder of Pixar wrote called Creativity Inc., and if you guys have have read it. Terrific book, and I read it, and then when I was the editor of Fast Company, I was like, this is what I want to follow, right? And I try to sort of create this culture flywheel, you know, and then it would like drift back. And so I I met Ed at one point and I said, So Ed, like what am I doing wrong? You know, like why why and he's like and he starts laughing at me. He's like, no, you gotta muck out the stalls like over and over. People go back. And so I'm curious for you guys, like how much of a culture is something that can be a flywheel.

And how much do you have to keep You know, like just you you said you're only part of the way through, like just keep at it. Well remember that people opt in. Right, so you have selection bias. So you are you have the people who chose to come and the people who didn't like your culture

are not there. Right. So you have to always start with the premise that there's a reason why people are here. Right. And you better validate it. And then you need to figure out how you want and this is exactly what you said. You then and both you actually said then you have to figure out what the the

Touch points. One way to say this is to say We like to win. Right. And what is it gonna take to win? And one of the things I learned from Larry and Sergey is to be impatient about that.

Right. Whatever idea I had was not good enough. Whatever idea anybody else had was not good enough. It was always not good enough. And that drive for excellence is what leadership really is about. No, I was just gonna say and I think too, I agree a hundred percent, but I think also as your scaling Right. So Burberry was relatively small. And so as you scale and you're bringing in thousands of people a year, how do they know what that cost of course you want to hire for it, but there's so many new people coming in. So we discovered at Burberry and at Apple that that you actually had to document it. We brought in a cultural anthropologist to study everything that we had done. We double the business, we said we were going to do it again.

What did we learn? What did we want to make sure gets embedded and onboarding, et cetera. So So kinda the same thing at Apple. I mean we did the we did the same thing, but you know. There's a financial report, there's a supply report, there's an environmental report. So we actually created the first human responsibility report to share, you know, what we were doing with this culture, how we were keeping this momentum, and that way There was no ambiguity In terms of like expectations, performance or otherwise.

Let me give you an e a Google example in my first year. So At the time the company was in one building. And I had an eight by twelve office and a little desk and and a door to the office. And one day I walk in.

And someone has moved into my office. Okay. With me. And I said, Hello and he goes, Hello and I said, Who are you? And I go he goes, I'm Amit And I said, What are you doing here? In a nice way. And he said, Well, I was uh one of the five people in the office across the hallway. And you're never here, so I just move myself.

Now because of my previous errors At Novelle. I knew that this Was a test. Okay.

Okay. And you know when you're being tested, it's like I'm being tested. Think, Eric. Think. Okay. So I said

Did anyone authorize the in a nice way? Did anyone said sure, Wayne Rosing, who's the VP of engineering, said sure, move into the CEO's office. So anyway, so he's he puts his headphones on and he's typing away doing whatever. And so He was You know, he's an engineer, he doesn't say anything. Perfectly fine roommate. Uh works all the time.

So I'm just sitting there and I'm and I'm on the phone with Omeed, who was the VP of sales at the time. And I'm having this conversation and Amit is saying I think that the the revenue numbers at the time were about 100 million a quarter. And he said, I think we can get to uh a hundred and twenty. And I said, I think you're you're sandbagging I mean, I'm sitting there talking to him and he said, Yeah. And so

Uh it's an unsuccessful phone call. So I hang up the phone. And a meet next to me. takes off his headphones and says, I know the revenue numbers.

And I go, I knew you were listening into my phone call. So I said What's the revenue number? And he and he goes. It's a hundred and forty two million. And I said, Well, how do you know? I said, I do revenue analytics.

Maybe I should have talked to my office mate. So I call Ome Omeeb, the sales guy, and I say Amead, you're sandbagging, you have another twelve million in the bag, you just haven't found it yet. He said, How do you know? And I said, I'm not telling you.

So All of a sudden. And by the way, the revenue number really was a hundred and forty two million. Uh I discovered having the chief revenue analytics guy in my office at all times is a great idea. We still running a small company. Note to self. Note to self. We actually liked each other so much.

That he stayed as my office mate until we were a public company when I couldn't violate the the various SEC laws. So what I Right. So then I thought, how can I get the same thing? And so I had a a small office and I had a larger office and I put four physicists next to me. And I said, Your job is to notice something strange and run into my office.

So in May of two thousand eight or nine, whichever the the month and year was. They run in and they say something strange. These are the physicists. And I go Okay. This is why we have physicists. And that was the beginning of that crisis.

So I learned something. Which was keeping these kinds of people around and close to you. It's really helpful. And plus, you know, if he moves in, don't say what the f I'm sorry.

Well Not commit cultural faux pas. I mean I think I think one of the fascinating things about culture is, right, like Every organization has a culture. Right? Some of it's articulated, some of it's by design, some of it's intentional, but some of it is just

evolves. I mean, you know, and you don't necessarily know where it comes from. I know we uh we only have a few minutes left, but I wanted to ask each of you Do you have a lesson? For the folks about something that when you know when they get back to their office. you know, that they should do that will improve their organization's culture, something they should keep in mind, something they should act on now. I'll I'll give a little bit of an uh an anti lesson call, which is

You can it it goes to all the advice that you took. All the advice but ultimately Don't try to be someone else. Be authentic to yourself. I still remember I I read uh It was like a Forbes article about this manager who

Uh walk the halls. You know, he managed by walking the halls and that's how he found out what was really going on at the company. Oh my god, I'm gonna walk the hall. So

I started I'm pretty structured. I I started Booking kinda walk the halls time. And I started walking the halls and It was so awkward. Like it was you know, I'd be like, What are you doing? You know, like I'm working, like get out of here, or like go into you know, a conference room and Dead silence, you know. How's it going, everyone? So

I just started hating walking the halls. I'm my sister. She like saw how much I hated it, so she she took lee. She's like, dar it's time to walk the halls, you know? And so eventually like I said, listen, it it profoundly didn't work for me. Now I'm sure, you know, I would say walk the halls is good advice. But I do think it goes to what you started with, which is Ultimately, whatever you do, whatever advice you choose to take, whatever fits in with you.

You've got to be authentic. And Only if you're authentic can you then effect authentic change with an organization. And I think that's a great thing. Yeah, it's funny'cause often the word culture it's like you know.

As humans we come up with these words, metaverse, and you know, and and not everybody knows exactly what they mean and and so but culture's kinda one of those words. And so I just used to always say it you know everybody has an individual personality and it's simply the personality of the company. And to me, it's no different than the Warriors winning or a great rock band. It's you know when you have a team whose values are aligned and they trust each other and it's just natural handoffs. But then when you have that incredible foundation of trust. It just Unlocks the creative thinking, it unlocks the innovation. And you know, that's that old adage, success breeds success. So to me, it's just

You know, understand that the culture is it is a giant personality and it's living and breathing and goes up and down, but y it is just constant, consistent, authentic communication and listening. I mean and it's not your culture. Even if you're a founder, this thing will take on a life of its own and you know hold on for the ride and keep pace as things change. I mean You know, just with technology with everything, because they can't go home and live one way and come into your culture. And Y you said if a a person in our audience goes back to the office, whatever, let's say they're doing a start up.

The answer is simple. Hire the smartest people you possibly can and put up with them. Right. Um and we all understand what that means, right? But you really need them for competitive advantage. But let's say you have an ex established organization that you're you're managing doing the best you can. The best way to do it is to say

Are we at the state of the art, are we using best practices, and then let them answer that question? What you discover is that your employees are all part of a network of people that you don't know. They actually know. what else is going on, even if you don't. So if you just listen to them and say, Okay, how do we get there? you end up with roughly the right outcome.

Yeah. I do think on on surrounding yourself with the smartest people that that is absolutely no regrets. And and like you said, the smartest people in organization have followership. So anything that you do with them, et cetera, has has echo effects. And I think on the cultural side.

That can turn if the smartest person and the organization isn't aligned with you culturally. That can actually be pretty dangerous. And so as an organization grows, you make allowances certainly for your most talented people. But if from a cultural standpoint they're not aligned with you.

That can be quite destructive. And at a certain point you're exactly. Mm-hmm. Well guys this has been great. I'm sorry that we're out of time. Thanks so much for doing this. Thank you. Thank you. Listening to Angela, Eric, and Dara, it's a reminder that a company's culture is never finished.

Even the most accomplished leaders experiment and remain open to change. You may make mistakes along the way, whether it be Awkwardly walking the halls or convincing your best employees they're about to get fired. But it's crucial to be your authentic self and cultivate a shared mindset. of creativity and ego lessness.

Especially in the face of a new technology like AI. This can be the difference between being a business that's prepared for the future. And one that's left behind. I'm Bob Safian. Thanks for listening.

Hey there, it's Jill Slesinger. I'm launching a new show. It's called Money Moves, and your money is going to move. We're gonna help you make better financial decisions. We're gonna call out the BS you're finding all over social media. We're gonna give you actionable guidance to make your financial life clearer, less stressful. We're gonna answer your financial questions and take the mystery out of your financial life. Follow and listen to Money Moves with Jill Schlesinger wherever you get your podcast. Masters of Scale Rapid Response is a wait what original.

I'm Bob Safian, your host and masters of scales editor at large. Our executive producers are June Cohen, Darren Triff, and Chris McLeod. Our chief content officer and interim president is Lori Hoffman. Our producers are Chris Gautier, Masha Mactanina, Adam Skuse. Alex Morris and Tucker Legerson.

Our music director is Ryan Holiday. Original music by Eduardo Rivera, Ryan Holiday, and Daniel Nissenbaum. Sound design and audio editing by Liam Jenkins, Keith J Nelson, Steven Davies, and Andrew Knollt. Mixing and Mastering by Aaron Bastanelli. Special thanks to Arya Finger, Saida Sapieva.

Jodine Dorsay. Alfonzo Bravo Colin Howard. Tim Cronin. Kelsey Capitano.

Sammy Aputa. Anna Pizzino. Sarah Tarter. Luisa Velaz. Justin Winslow

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