#446: Blake Mycoskie — TOMS, The Hoffman Process, Conscious Uncoupling, and Psychedelics

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So take ownership of your health and try AG1 today. You will get a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free AG1 travel packs with your first subscription purchase. So learn more, check it out. go to drinkage one dot com slash Tim. That's drinkage one, the number one. Drink AG One dot com slash Tim last time, drink AG one dot com slash Tim. Check it out. Hello, boys and girls, ladies and gents. This is Tim Ferris, and welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferris Show. My guest today is a friend, Blake Mykowski. You can find him on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram at Blake Mycoski, M-Y-C-O-S-K-I-E. Blake is a serial entrepreneur. That's an understatement, philanthropist, and best selling author. Most known for founding Tom Shoes and is the person behind the concept of one for one, which of course you've run into at some point since a business model that helps a person in need with every product purchased. Tom Shoes has provided nearly 96 million pairs shoes to children around the globe since its inception. In 2014,

After selling half of the company at Bain Capital, Blake stepped down as CEO of Tom's. Utilizing half of his proceeds, he started the Social Entrepreneurship Fund to help early startups with core social missions get off the ground with much needed funding. Since then, he's invested in more than twenty-five social enterprises. And has also expanded his philanthropic efforts to include the funding of the center For psychedelic and consciousness research at Johns Hopkins, making it the first such research center in the US and the largest of its kind in the world. In the spring of 2020. That is right about now. Blake co-founded his newest company, Made For, getMadeFour dot com, a 10 month program that applies the principles of modern neuroscience, psychology, and physiology to make your brain and body better. Created alongside scientists from Stanford, Harvard, and other top universities, made for All one word, M A D E F O R, helps people learn and sustain positive habits and practices that have the greatest impact on their lives.

Blake. Welcome back to the show. Thanks, Tim. It's good to be here. We have had many, many conversations over the years, and I wanna say context for folks that we have done a podcast episode previously. in person where we cover a lot of the Tom story. So we won't

duplicate that here, but I think it's important to provide at least a little bit of context for folks. And for those who want to find the earlier, you can just go to Tim.blog forward slash podcast and search Blake. And it'll pop right up. I think it's number Two hundred and forty nine, which is incredibly almost two hundred episodes ago. Wow. That's crazy. It's bonkers. And you and I have had many life changes gone through many chapters.

It just feels like lifetimes. And to paint a picture, if we go back in time for folks who know you for Thomas, but maybe not the collection of other businesses that you've started. So at twenty nine. Now you're older than twenty nine now, of course, but at twenty nine you'd already done not necessarily in this order, but outdoor advertising, driver's education, laundry, and uh built a television. Network.

I got busy early. You got busy early and your family story is incredible. We won't necessarily Duplicate all of that, but just as an anecdote for folks, your parents literally used to sell their blood to pay their rent, I believe, because they were so poor during medical school. So there's a certain amount of initiative uh in the family, it would seem. But What would you say

drove you or compelled to start all of these businesses? If you're sort of looking under the hood, knowing what you know now, what is it that has driven you to build all of these things? And it doesn't have to be a single answer, but I'm just I'm so curious since you are so so incredibly productive and just back to back to back have done so much. How would you begin to speak to that? I would say the The thing that probably is the greatest contributor to that was

the discipline and drive that I learned as a young child trying to become a professional tennis player. My whole life growing up from age nine or ten Was you know, practicing tennis, living at tennis academies, training And

It was not one of those situations where my parents you know, pushed it on me. If anything, they thought I was a little bit obsessed and they worried about my You know, drive. Um for at such a young age, but I really look when I look back at my entrepreneurial career. Those early businesses I think were just

New vehicles for me to compete. And for me to build Uh an identity like I did as a great tennis player as a young child. made you a good tennis player. We we know you didn't go on to

necessarily focus your entire life on tennis, but what was it that made you a good competitor? Right, there are many different types of competitors. To be completely honest, I was not very talented, um, you know, naturally. I worked really, really hard. And I mean, I lived at this one academy with some of the top players in the world. the John Newcomb Tennis Academy when I was fifteen. And out of, you know, fifty top players from around the world that are worldly ranked and go on to become

Yeah, professionals, I one the hardest worker. of the year ward and That was the only way that I could even compete. uh with some of those players was just'cause I outwork them. And so I don't know if that's a nature versus nurture thing, um, because

I think, you know, I have a two year old daughter now and she's so Freaking driven. I mean, like she goes to swim lessons and just swim across a pool and never looks up to see For applause or anything. Like I see that I the tiger in her. And I definitely had that at a young age. I mean, from the day that my parents gave me my first tennis racket and I got a tennis lesson. I wouldn't come home till it was dark and oftentimes I would convince them to leave the lights on for me to hit against the backboard.

Um, and so I think that was in my nature, just just incredibly self disciplined and driven and that's what allowed me to excel as far as I did as a tennis player. But You really need the the natural talent too to go pro. And you took the the drive, the discipline, the work ethic, and applied it to businesses. And of course, I would imagine there are people listening who go, Well, great, his two year old daughter has this superior software preinstalled. What am I going to emulate here? And uh And the next question is really

on the nurture side. So I think all of us come into this world with Certainly Set of software. certain set of hardware and sometimes the harder things to do are those that run against Or are on the opposite end of the spectrum from our

Innate. programming right so for some people listening, if they are say less driven, perhaps they have to cultivate themselves to be driven, but If you are building and building and building as you did for a very long time and still are. But let's flash forward to 2012. So I'm recording this right now from Austin, Texas.

And I believe this is where you move for a sabbatical. Yeah, two thousand twelve. Now you when I think of you, I mean the reason I'm laughing is just like I imagine you going kind of insane doing a sabbatical that that may be unfair, but you're so high RPM. I'd love to just hear you Describe the Decision. For the sabbatical.

how it came to be and and what was done during the sabbatical. Yeah, I mean what was done is not pretty. Um and it almost led to a divorce uh one year after getting married. I'll get to that in a second. Um but what The decision that led to it was Um You know, I I've been an entrepreneur since I was nineteen years old.

Um, so by two thousand twelve I had, you know, been doing it for sixteen, seventeen years, Tom's was A very successful business, you know, driving hundreds of millions of dollars in sales and helping millions of children around the world. I had just gotten married. And

For the first time in my life, I just wanted to take a break. I mean, I just I was I just needed to have some time to kind of reflect on all these companies. This new relationship I was in. this new commitment I had made in getting married and I always thought I would move back to Texas. That was a big part of it too. You know, I grew up in Texas and you know, I think anyone who grows up in Texas that leaves and especially maybe ends up living in LA or New York City or San Francisco, they love the excitement and the adrenaline and the uniqueness of those cities, but

You can't really ever take Texas out of a Texan, and so I always thought You know, once I got married, once I started thinking about family, Austin, Texas would be back where I need to be. And and and that was a big driver in the sabbatical too. So it was to take some time to reflect. To see how stable Tom's was on its own without my day to day, you know, running it.

Um, and to, you know, really kind of explore whether Texas is gonna be the the long term. Uh place. for for me. And and Heather at that time.

So that was the decision. Now what happened was Uh. pretty much a disaster because I had to put my attention to something and so I like to play golf. Uh and I like to drink beer.

And so I pretty much spent all day drinking beer and playing golf. Which does not make you exactly the most attractive husband when you have to take a taxi home at the end of the day'cause you can't drive. Was there anything you took away from your experience with the sabbatical? I mean it sounds like a decent pressure release valve, at least for a period of time. But was there value in the experience? Sure. I think the v the value was is really understanding no matter how much you love a hobby Or you need releases and you know, play in your life.

The joy in those things is lost. If you don't have balance. And you don't have some type of meaningful work. uh and responsibilities to balance it. So Now I cut to now. I'm an avid mountain climber.

I race cars. You know, and I love surfing. But I don't do that all day every day or I wouldn't enjoy those things. And because I have um a father and I've got you know, lots of investments and now a new company. And so having that balance is what allows you to really enjoy

the leisure activities or the hobbies and when Your hobbies become your full time job in a sense. It quickly uh deteriorates the joy you're deriving from it. And I definitely experienced that and that's where You know, ultimately I decide I need to move back to it.

California and get back involved in Tom's after a After only eight months. Part of the reason that we're having this conversation is that you've had many life transitions in the last few years. You've had many new experiences uh transformative inputs of different types. And I've always viewed you as a a seeker.

And I'd like to talk about about or have you talk about one that comes to mind that we've talked about when not recording just over dinners and so on, but the Hoffman process. Sure. to the Hoffman process. What is it?

Why did you participate in it? Yeah, the Hoffman process, I mean there's probably three Three to four experiences or practices that I've taken on in my life that have by far had the greatest impact in a positive way. And

I love to start with the Hoffman process because it is at the top of the list. The Hoffman Process is an eight day program that Bob Hoffman started um thirty plus years ago. It came out of Eselin. And its main concept is focused around this thing called the negative love syndrome. That we all experience from our parents or primary care givers.

Regardless of if they're the greatest or the or the worst. Um, so every single child has this experience, and basically what it is is When we're young, we Are very astute to our primary caregivers patterns.

And their behaviors. And we do one of two things with pretty much every single pattern and behavior of our parents, in my case. And that is we either emulate the pattern or the behavior to receive their love. Or

We do the exact opposite. To demand their attention. And so this is as a child how we survive. And Bob Hoffman and and a lot of really, really smart people have studied this. um a psychological perspective. And so what happens is

The way that our brains get wired and all the patterns that end up driving pretty much every decision in our life after the age of twelve. are hardwired in there based on Us wanting to either receive love or attention. From our parents. Now, some of those patterns go on to help us in innumerable ways. I would say, you know, my drive and competitiveness.

Uh his Blessed me in many, many ways. But I like to be competitive or have drive now and А за концов. vers a pattern that I can't turn on or off in any situation because sometimes like

It's not healthy to be incredibly competitive. Um, you know, in a romantic relationship it's probably not that healthy. Definitely not with your five year old son. I mean, there's a lot of times in which I am glad that I can recognize and see that pattern happening. But then, you know, dampen it to the situation. But The Hoffman Process

What you do when you go there is it's um They take you through a series of exercises. It's very experiential and it's very unconventional, but it is More effective than anything I've ever seen. And through the week what you do is you really recognize What patterns

you have from both of your parents that you want to let go of That aren't serving you anymore. You also then see these vicious cycles that play out in your life. And so these are macro patterns. If you look through 20, 30 years, you can kind of see like, oh, I do this and it leads to this, and ultimately it leads to this. And that has really not served me. And so then they give you the tools to really rewire your brain in a way so that you're not a slave to these patterns and habits. And it's the most freeing

experience ever. I mean, it is I mean, one of my favorite things I love to talk about Hoffman is Uh, and this is definitely not anything that they would ever promote as as an expectation to have. But I went to Hoffman In two thousand and

I wanna say sixteen. And After Hoffman, I remember coming back to the Tom's office and our CEO at the time, he's like, Man, you look lighter, like physically lighter. And I was like, I feel lighter.

And then over the next couple of weeks, I literally lost Twelve pounds and Any body fat I had in my ab abdominal area where a lot of men carry body fat because of stress. and anxiety. And I literally went from having

Yeah, I wasn't overweight, but to having like crazy abs and everyone was like, What did you do? And I'm like, I didn't do a single fucking crunch. I just went to Hoffman. And I mean, and literally I lost weight as I lost mental weight. And so Um, since then I have uh started a scholarship fund. I've sent over two hundred people. that ne have needed the financial backing or resources to go.

And I've also sent pretty much every single one of my friends and family. And it's the only thing in my life that it bats a thousand. There's not a single person that hasn't come back and said that was the most Important week of my life. And it helps you become a better parent. It helps you become a better spouse. It helps you become a better leader for sure. And I've gone back and done graduate work there and

Um, I continue to support them financially so more people can go that can't afford it. But yeah, it is I mean, I have goosebumps over my whole body just getting the opportunity to share how meaningful Hoffman was because I'm so grateful to it. Thank you for that.

Explanation. The first is really a a footnote. related to the losing of abdominal fat. That that uh doesn't actually surprise me in the c in the sense that if if for whatever reason you have dramatically lowered your cortisol levels, there's a cascade of different effects that one might observe and certainly in men that that would be it. sort of redistribution or change in how fat is deposited or retained, right? And cortisol is such an incredibly powerful hormone. You need it to live. You don't want to go without cortisol, but just as an example for folks who might have this

experience, if you've ever been tired and wired where you're physically exhausted, you try to go to bed and then you're just racing a million miles a minute, what often happens is you have this release of cortisol, then a spike of glucose, and you feel like you're on the start line for running a marathon. It it's uh very frustrating. So I actually sometimes take uh phosphegetal serine, this supplement, one or two hundred milligrams before bed to help with that. Uh to kind of blunt that cortisol response. But That's the footnote. Now that I

Said that, back to the Hoffman process. Are you open to sharing any of the patterns or cycles that ended up being very helpful to identify. Yeah. I mean I'll share one and it's It's uh embarrassing, but I think it's embarrassing because it's so

It's just it was such a driver in my life. Um and I think some people will really connect to this. So By and it's a good example of how your parents can do all the right things and you're still gonna have these patterns. So my mom uh did not I graduate from college.

Supported my dad through medical school, selling her blood, waiting tables. You know, had As my dad became this very successful uh doctor. You know, she was serving as a housewife and Didn't have the same

sense of obviously pride that my dad did in his Vocation. And when she had me, I was not only the first child in our family, but I was the first grandchild in a very big Mykowski family. And so my mom all of a sudden got you know kind of held up in incredible high regards by everyone by giving

My grandparents a the first grandchild and And I was literally the apple of her eye. And I could do no wrong. I was just Loved at every single second and minute.

I mean her whole world revolved around me. And so I grew up Even when I did have brothers and sisters, which she also gave the same love to them, there was always something special of me being the first, not just by my mom, but I would say the whole

Kind of aunts, uncles, grandparents, everyone. And so I grew up Um really experiencing high levels of attention at all moments in my life. And so the pattern that came from that

was I needed To be the center of attention to feel comfortable. And now this is a not very attractive characteristic in in a friendship and definitely romantic relationships, which we'll get to,'cause it all comes full circle, Tim. And so what I learned in Hoffman

And I'll give you a very specific example'cause it's Embarrassing, slightly disgusting now to me. But I have beat it. So I I it makes me very happy. And that is

It was so hardwired into my brain to be the center of attention. And to be praised by people. that I would get on a ski lift. I love snowboarding. And I'd get on a ski lift. And before we got to the top of the lift, I would subconsciously

manipulate the conversation so they would ask me What I did for a living. And then I would get to say I'm the founder of Tom's. in which unanimously you get praise. You know, you built a business to help millions of children.

Wow. Like I mean, and so Literally, I would like not be comfortable on that ski lift. Until that conversation happened. And then once I got the praise and the attention I could focus on anything that the other person was talking, but it was so hardwired into me. And now that I say that, it's just like so embarrassing. But

I never knew that until I went to Hoffman. And then once I went to Hoffman and I said to myself, okay, it's there's a healthy amount of you know needing attention and love. uh you know to feel secure But mine is totally out of whack based on this pattern. And here are the things that happen when this pattern starts to get triggered. And now I almost play games that like

Parties or ski lifts. where I lead the conversation every which way possible. So people never find out that I'm the founder of Tom's. And it's beautiful and it gives me this sense of like deep spiritual connection to my spiritual self, as they would say in Hoffman. And so That's just one small example, but I think it gives you an idea of how

Some of these patterns can even come from really positive things your parents did, not just traumatic. Now a lot of them come from trauma too. So if you've had a traumatic experience, I think Hoffman's even more effective in helping you process some of that trauma. But yeah, that's an example um that I think illustrates how hardwired these patterns are in you. People listening will be so embarrassed. Shame for shame. No, I'm kidding. It's it's uh you know the uh what is it, a problem well stated is a problem half solved? I mean you have to develop I think that was John Dewey, if I'm getting the attribution right, but it starts with an awareness, right? And developing the perspective so that you can be aware of the stories and the narratives and the patterns that are governing your behavior, whether you're aware of them or not at the outset.

So question for you about the Hoffman process. A lot of people listening will be very interested in doing something like the Hoffman process. Some very, very small percentage will probably end up going, but it's gonna be a small percentage. Are there Any books or resources that help people to achieve some of the progress that that one might at The Hoffman process, right? Are there books like to a few come to mind, like Awareness by Anthony DeMelo for me, or

Man, I can't believe you said that book. I literally I I gave that book to someone very special a couple of days ago. It's one of my favorite books. No kidding. I did not know that. I love Anthony DeMill. I mean, I've read everything. I mean rediscovering life, I think is should be like every single human should read that. Um because that is such a powerful uh experience. And I think it's To answer your question, rediscovering life is another one I would say besides awareness that specifically are in this

In this uh genre. Great. Are there any other resources you might recommend? I don't know if the Hoffman process does anything outside the in person events that are more widely available. Yeah, no, they they don't, um because the process is and I think this is important to state is like I definitely think

Some of Anthony DeMello's books for sure. Uh rediscovering life, awareness. I think that there is a book actually kind of written about the Hoffman process. It's not an official Hoffman book, but if you Google Hoffman Process book, you'll find it. I forget what it's called. It kind of talks through it, but

The reason Hoffman is so effective Is that it is a totally immersive experience. That you do without giving away some of the secrets because it's really fun'cause no one that's part of the as a graduate, you never tell people what they're gonna do because you need to have the

surprise and the experiences unfold. But it's You use your body You use your mind, use your s I mean, you kind of You have to do it. It's not just something you learn, it's something you actually physically experience through different

very unique practices that you do there. That release things and And open up patterns that you're not even aware of and memories that you don't even have. Consciously. So You know, Hoffman has scholarships. I

From time to time, if you follow me on Instagram, I post scholarships, you know, at least a couple of times a year. But you know, if this is something that is of interest to you I think, you know, do anything you possibly can to get and do the process because it is something that is, and I've read every book in the world in this genre. And nothing compares to the actual experience. So having covered, at least for the time being, the Hoffman process, and and I should say for people listening that I wanted to have this conversation with you for a few different reasons. One of them is that you've experienced these transitions, like I mentioned, and that whether people identify with you or not, right? Because you're talking about racing cars, you've

built a company that had hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. And I I think that there's the possibility that someone listening says, Well, I have very little in common. with Blake. So I wonder or even doubt if these tools will apply to me. I anticipate that and the reason that I still think this conversation is of value is that whether you're going through a midlife crisis, an end of life crisis, a quarter life crisis where you're graduating and you don't know what you want to be when you grow up. Or going through

A divorce or contemplating getting married, having kids. having kids leave the house. During these transition periods, a lot of material comes up. Yeah. And the material is going to be unique to each and every person, but the tools, a lot of the tools I think are are quite flexible. So that's just really more of a commentary that I wanted to to mention but before we

Keep going. In the in the case of the Hoffman process, you mentioned you were going through a difficult stage. Are you open to saying more? Sure. Yeah, I mean I I think selling half of the company Stilling half of Tom's

And uh stepping down and hiring a CEO. And became a father. For the first time. This is all five years ago. was incredibly challenging.

Because All of those things were the things that I had been told by my parents and society and And culture would make me happy. Yeah. I now have full financial freedom.

I have time freedom because I have a CEO running the company, so I can do other things, focus on being a dad, hobbies. I'm married. I have a child. I have great friends. So I took the discipline that we started this conversation talking about. and applied it to everything that I thought

Would bring me joy, peace, and fulfillment. And all of those things were externally focused. And so once I realized that I had accomplished everything I set out to do And I was still waking up.

feeling very challenged. very not motivated, not feeling I had a purpose. uh low energy levels, having trouble sleeping, which ultimately You know, led to uh being diagnosed for the first time my life with mild depression. Um

I realized the most important thing or I or I had a I wanna say realize then, I've realized it now, but I had a Inclination. That The external would never be the thing. that would allow me

to feel what I had been seeking. And so that began and started with Hoffman and It also led to, you know, plant medicine journeys and it led to my two years of research with different scientists that led to the Made for program. But all that came from

looking inward, maybe for the first time in my life. And I'm incredibly grateful today because I've never felt that I've been living in a state of flourishing more than I am now, and it has nothing to do with any of the external things that most people know me for. You mentioned Maybe ten, fifteen minutes ago. Three to four practices, you know, handful of practices, one of which

is the Hoffman process. What are some of the others That Have stood out. for you in terms of positive impact. So I would say

I would define these as experiences. And then The third experience led to Some very specific daily simple practices. So let's start with the experiences. The experiences were Hoffman.

Plant medicine journeys, ayahuasca and psilocybin to be specific, um, that I was able to do down in South America. And then the third was And this is pretty much What I'm spending all my time or most of my time on now. The third was spending time with some of the top scientists at the

best universities in the country. Seeing what has scientifically been proven that can affect your mental well being on a day to day basis. So not Huge. You know, experiences like Hoffman or Plant Medicine.

But the small steps that you can do Every single day. So practices and habits. that can insulate you from the challenges of modern living and setting out and really almost approaching it like a student and being able to get access to this incredible body of science specifically in the

And then neuroscience with Andrew Huberman out of Stanford University That has given me The day to day Insulation from all the challenges, and especially recently during Covid nineteen. Um, so those are the three things really Hoffman

plant medicine and the practices that ultimately led to the Made for program that I practice every day. Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by Element, spelled LMNT. Element is a delicious sugar free electrolyte drink mix. I've stocked up on boxes and boxes of this. Usually use one to two per day. My favorite flavor is citrus salt.

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So we're gonna spend a good amount of time on the the day to day installation, right? The the practices. Uh because it's very easy As you and I both know, because we have spent time around people who practice what one might call spiritual bypass. Use some substance to

vaporize themselves into stardust. And And And then the insight. falls like grains of sand through the the fingers in their psyche and two weeks later they are

behaving the same way with the same subconscious drivers remaining subconscious, right? There's These compounds and these peak experiences uh Hoffman or otherwise, I would imagine, although I don't want to speak for Hoffman, but I would imagine there are people who They don't make the translation. from the experience to practice and

None the less, I would be very interested to hear what you feel you gained from your plant medicine experiences. Sure. Because you, as I mentioned in the introduction, and I'd like to extend my thanks yet again for being a very substantial supporter of the scientific research related to psychedelics. And uh in most notably, so that's uh I think an incredible way to bend the arc of history as it relates to treating psychiatric disorders that have largely been untreatable. Uh so thank you for that. Of course on a personal on a personal level, what were your experiences? Yeah, so

I think the The first experience was with ayahuasca. Down in South America. And starting with the big guns. I mean that's just kind of the way the foreplay. Yeah, just skip the way of work. Um I would not recommend that, by the way. Um so if you're listening to this and you're is this something you're interested in, I would definitely start with something like a guided uh psilocybin journey. Oh, with a you know medium to small dose.

But I went with the big guns. And I think it was just shows the desperation that I was feeling at that time. Um you know, I a really just reveal the

The Expansiveness of my consciousness of time of the inner connection of nature and all beings And in a way that the takeaway was, and this is really goes back to some of maybe the childhood wounds that I still carry.

That also Part of the reason I was so driven. was just a feeling I remember coming out of it and just almost like angels around me. Just saying. You are all right. You are enough. You don't need to prove anything to anyone ever again.

Just enjoy your human experience. Like it was just this like It was just like this deep It wasn't the praise that I had always sought. It was a Deep love and acknowledgement that there's nothing more I can do or nothing I can't do.

To not feel God's love. And I had heard about that in the Christian faith. I'd heard about that in other spiritual teachings, but to feel that In a way That was so powerful.

And just mine expanding. was really one of the things I'm most grateful for in my life because I literally came out, came back to the US. And came back to my regular life, and I really believe I have integrated that into my

you know, personal outlook and self compassion and all these other more practices that we'll get into. But it started with that just A total awakening. that happened through IA around Just how much more is at play. And because it's so enormous and it's so we're such a we're a small part of such something so beautiful and perfectly designed.

That it gave me this piece that I I'm just perfect the way I am. And I remember hearing that in Sunday school as a kid. And never having it ever really resonate. Um, and it totally transformed the way I looked at myself.

Um after that experience. I appreciate you sharing that description and it's just um never ceases to make me Crack a smile when anyone including yours truly tries to put one of these experiences into words. Thanks for making me do that. You're welcome. And uh it's It is certainly

An unusual yet completely familiar feeling to have some of these experiences, which is uh an odd combination, perhaps, but there's a lot of paradox that makes complete sense when you are having these experiences. to perhaps provide a contrast, just because what you described sounds incredibly euphoric. Have you had any difficult Plant medicine experiences. Yes. So the second

Ayahuasca. I I I now talk about I uh Like A knee surgery. So if you ever feel compelled to do it if you ever do feel compelled, and I do not think it's for everyone, I wanna be very clear and I do think it is, you know. uh something you might wanna work up to. And I think and I for instance, I have several friends that have wanted to

Get the information about where I did my ayahuasca experience and I have almost demanded that they go to Hoffman before they do ayahuasca. Because I feel that A lot of Other work can help prepare you.

Um so that your experience can be more positive. But The reason I say it's like a knee surgery is I had that incredible blissful mind expanding heart opening experience And

For some reason, two years later, curiosity got the best of me, I decided to do it again. And uh I took a you know pretty big dose, went back down south, and I had a horrifying experience. that I have still spent, you know, several years trying to really understand the meaning and the integration. And you and I've talked about this before, it was not only incredibly frightening because I had this experience that the entire reality that we know is not real and that it was all just a dream that I'm having and

And I even created God to make the dream more interesting. Um, and so then that what was I and I just went to this rabbit hole of like As if life was a video game that I'd played a billion times and Every time I play it I add one little thing, like I wear a blue shirt instead of a white shirt because I don't know, I gotta do something different. I mean it literally just and so everything felt meaningless. So that

Was horrifying because I have so much meaning in my regular life. And so now I had this experience that where the whole thing felt like a meaningless video game. The funniest part about that is though Tim is in that ayahuasca experience. I had this like moment where I was like

Shark attacks. Damn, that's a bug in my video game. I need to next time I need to go back and have sharks stop attacking people, because they were never meant. to bite people. And that is a bug in the game that I created. And I like obsessed over that flaw in this perfectly designed human experience video game. Um

And If I could add one thing to that too, and and uh we can certainly cut this if it's um talking out of school, but one of the aspects of that that I recall being very disconcerting to you is that that feeling of being in a Simulation.

Didn't end when you left. South America. There were nights when you would wake up and turn to your partner and say, is this real? Am I real and you were unsure. Right. There's there was a this was a real question. That was that was the that was the part I was gonna get to that was the most scary. So the experience itself was what I would call unsettling.

Unpleasant. Caused me to Have a the state of I you know, I think of You know, just confusion and then

For the week after I got home. I had several nights where I woke up and I felt like I was back in. The medicine. And that's the thing that was so scary and I remember calling you and asking for advice at the time, and anyone else I know who had you know, experience these things and

That was um the the thing that was so scary. And that's why I call it a knee surgery. It's like I had a beautiful knee surgery. My knee worked fine. And I don't know why I decided to try to have another knee surgery. So um so for the time being, unless I'm desperately called back to ayahuasca. I um I do feel that I can gain something from the plants. It's uh it's with psilocybin. And uh I don't know if you remember.

When we spoke, I remember this conversation. I remember exactly where I was when we had this conversation. Do you remember the nickname that I had for your experience? Because the scary night school and one of the most horrifying thought spirals you can have is that what you're experiencing. is unique to you, right? That there is there's some unique form of madness that you have descended into. And uh so you you describe this where you go to sleep and then you feel like you've gone right back into the experience. what some people might call flashbacks, let's just say. And that as I mentioned, and the nickname is actually from a friend of mine named Michael, uh Michael C, I'll give him credit. He calls it night school, uh because it is relatively common with ayahuasca and particularly with five methoxy DMT or five MEO DMT. And that can persist, as I mentioned.

In some people for a few days, in some people for ten days, at least anecdotally among the sort of sample size that I've had contact with. And that can be horrifying, particularly if that expectation or possibility has not been laid out ahead of time. Yeah. And which is why I you know, it's funny you say knee surgery, because I actually uh we we arrived at the same metaphor completely separately when I talked to people about These types of compounds or plants, I I describe the process as knee surgery, not just because you're having knee surgery, but because if you don't do your rehab afterwards, you could end up worse off than you were before. There's a period of plasticity, a window. of malleability within which you can change things and shape things. But whether it's shaped for the better or not depends a lot on your

on your behaviors and so on. So just a real quick note on this, because you and I have had many conversations about this and a lot of people listening I think we'll have a lot of enthusiasm around this subject. And uh I wanna just say a couple of quick things as a sort of public service announcement. The first is That

psychedelics and use of psychedelics, in my opinion, should not be an arms race. It's not like you need to escalate from bunny slope to intermediate black diamond to double black to hell skiing to free fall. You don't need to use all these compounds and if You look at indigenous Cultures. that have used these plants, very often they have their lane. In other words, the the mushrooms used by the Mazatecs in Central America are not the same as used uh as the say ayahuasca used

by certain tribes in Peru. Also the ayahuasca in certain tribes in Peru may not be the exact same ayahuasca used by other tribes in, say, Colombia or different locations. So there's a tremendous amount of variance and none of these people use the entire catalogue of psychedelics found globally. That's a very western yes. Yeah. experience and perspective. And I think there are incredible risks associated with it. The second thing I'll say is for people who might be interested, and you you mentioned insisting on Hoffman process first. I think that

it is a very good idea to develop a basic fluency with some of the easier tools before you go for these peak experiences, which can be incredibly life affirming and transformational, and they can also be incredibly destructive. There's just a s there's a survivorship bias. So you don't hear about these stories very much, but I know of Not just one, not just two, but it at least six to twelve people firsthand.

who have been knocked sideways and destabilized for weeks or months. After use of ayahuasca and and five MEO DMT specifically. So it's so what I would say is the progression, since you mentioned Hoffman, I'll just kinda mention what I usually advise to people who are going to take it seriously is that you use something like the Waking Up Meditation app. For

Thirty days, no substances, this is completely sober. You read Awareness by Anthony DeMello. You watch the six part series The Power of Myth, which is Bill Moyers interviewing Joseph Campbell, you schedule At least two sessions of holotropic breath work. Again, completely sober, but you are able to Experience and

a non-ordinary state of consciousness that is produced through breathing techniques. Then and again th this is this is where we get into riskier legal territory. So I'm gonna say I'm not advising breaking any laws, but MDMA assisted psychotherapy. would be the next step after that. Then guided

Sulicid. And You can stop. At that point, you can actually stop at any of those points. Previously you don't have to continue to proceed, but I would not use ayahuasca until you have done all of those things. Amen. I'm so I mean, for if for no other reason, I know hopefully People will gain a lot from this conversation and I know that's our intention.

But for no other reason I'm glad that you uh lay that out because I don't think Yeah. type of prescription is shared enough in our society right now. Thank you.

Blake and I um it's it's uh it's really nice to have a companion on the path, by the way, with the the support of the science, which I I do deeply, deeply believe in. Um let's let's talk about if uh if you've got time, I've got time. I know uh we don't have a hard stop, which is a a rare luxury, but I there there are a few things I wanna make sure that we talk about. I want to get into the day to day installation, that third bucket, so to speak. that you mentioned. First I'd like to ask

About Conscious uncoupling. And because I I really think this will be of tremendous service to a lot of people listening. including those people who are not in a state of crisis. But could you provide some context for what that means and how it Came to be.

Uh something you're familiar with. Yes, absolutely. And I mean it's one of the reasons why I was excited to have this conversation with you because I went through a very, very powerful experience with my now ex wife, Heather. Over the last seven months.

with this concept of conscious uncoupling. So Heather and I were married for seven years. And over those seven years, almost after the first year, we had challenges and we worked at it and with the same discipline and drive. That we've talked about. We Did lots of therapy. We worked with some of

You know, I'm not gonna name names with some of the therapists that everyone has watched their Ted talks. Um, we, you know, did pretty much every kind of therapeutic intervention we could to try to find What was holding us back. From the type of

Love and relationship that we both dreamed of having. And we I think having two kids definitely was Something that kept us working hard at it because We both wanted to make sure that we were providing the best

uh environment for them. But over the last year to two years we recognize that We were starting to fight more. We were starting to you know, the energy level was not good in the home. And the kids were starting, especially our five year old, to pick up on it and asking us like why are we fighting and what's wrong with mom or what's wrong with dad or And we also just started kinda living separate lives and you know, we're young. I mean

Um Forty three and Heather's thirty eight and And we said there's more to this and and and we and we also never we lost our friendship in all this. Um And so that's a long way of saying we decided

back in September of last year that we would be better off Not being married anymore. And I read Catherine Woodward's book Conscious Uncoupling. Um while we made this decision and I gave it to Heather and she read it. And we were blown away by the concepts of it.

I mean if you think about it, over fifty percent of people who get married are going to ultimately get divorced. Yet we have very few tools in our society and very few role models. to show us a way of doing it where you can actually create A new relationship, a new agreement that's more powerful.

and more beautiful than the one that you entered in when you said I do and specifically or your kids and your mutual friends that are often the collateral damage when people get divorced. And so we had the benefit of working with some coaches. So not only um is the book really valuable, but on the website, they have a resource of different coaches for all different budgets. to help you through the process if you if you so choose. I highly recommend that. And what the process did is it helped us really see a little bit in the sphere of Hoffman and patterns, like

Who were we when we got married and why did we really choose to get married and What expectations were not fulfilled and what disappointments do we have and And really, at the end of the day, it you realize kind of like so much of this. It was not about blaming the other person, it was about owning What my role was in those

unmet expectations or loss of sexual polarity. or all of the things that ultimately lead to a couple way to split. And By us doing that work individually for several months first and then together as a couple, We were able to create a beautiful new future for us and

Um, the interesting thing and then I think the reason why this is very time relevant is we literally got through the whole program Divorce became final, signed all the paperwork, Heather was gonna get A wonderful home, just you know, 15 minutes down the road from me, and the kids were gonna go back and forth and we are ready to start a beautiful new chapter this spring. And then COVID nineteen happens.

And uh we then found ourselves quarantined once again as a family with now my ex wife. For two months. after we had, you know, really been kind of looking forward to this new chapter. But I am so grateful that happened because it allowed us to test everything that we learned.

And everything that we committed. In a very tight living situation with kids home all day long, with no other external forces. And what we found was Our friendship got solidified better than ever. And the support that we have for each other is is absolutely beautiful. Our kids can feel it, they're thriving, they see the love.

And now that Heather has moved into her other house and the kids are going back and forth There's been no trauma issues with the kids. And so It has been a beautiful, beautiful experience, and I think Heather and I are both so much more well prepared. for whatever relationships we enter into the future, because we have awareness now that we didn't have

when we kind of just stumbled upon into our first relationship, you know, nine years ago. So The book is incredible. The coaches are amazing. Um, I can't stress enough that there is a

beautiful alternative. to staying in an unhappy marriage or an unhappy boyfriend girlfriend. I mean, it doesn't have to be a marriage. It could be Any type of relationship. And I just am so deeply grateful for the experience we had the last seven months. Could you speak to

Or just describe some of the things that you are now aware of. Or give even one example. Yeah. I mean for sure. Well, I think that You know, one of the things that I recognized Was

My parents actually last week celebrated their fiftieth wedding anniversary. I mean It's like the most amazing accomplishment. And they still are totally in love with each other. I actually did a two hour recorded interview with them on the day of their anniversary that I wanted to save to have my kids watch before they get married. If they choose to get married.

And one of the greatest things that my dad said, I'll never forget it. is'cause he knows how much we struggled, Heather and I, and my parents love Heather and and they and they saw how hard we tried and And so my dad said in the interview, he says, You know, Blake, I've often in over the years, not just with you, but so many of my friends that have struggled with their marriages. I've kind of felt guilty. Because

My marriage to your mom has been so easy. And I'm like he's like It it just It just works, and I feel like, you know, we just compliment each other in a way that is mutually supportive, mutually self sacrificing. It never feels I mean not never, but it hardly has ever felt like work. And

In this interview And I what I recognize is that I think they got, you know, pretty lucky. I mean, and he would say so too. They were very young. And every once in a while someone gets lucky and they just get with the right person. But what I recognize in the conscious uncoupling is Was

I was more interested And Kind of a story or a perfect picture that I had put in my mind, largely because of my parents' amazing relationship and my closen to my brother and sister. I was more interested in that

than really understanding who Heather was and what was The foundation of our love. So I was basically had a box and I wanted to put someone in it and Heather Based on her experience which I don't want to get ful

looked like and wanted to jump into my box. And and that creates a lot of the, you know, all the chemicals releasing and the love feeling and all that. But Because we didn't do enough Kind of exploration of really

the foundations of what will make a relationship work and I'll Yeah, the the polarity between masculine and feminine, you know, the the shared, you know, kind of, you know, vision on how we're gonna spend our time or our energy. political beliefs, I mean things that kinda really can get in the way if you don't really work through them. You know, and we just jumped into the you know, the physical attraction and the fun and all that and we got married. And I don't think either of us were

prepared to and I don't think either of us did Enough. kind of personal work with each other to really know what we were signing up for. And um now through the book, I was able to see that I was asking Heather To

fulfill needs, kind of like to our earlier our conversation of looking external when you really need to look internal. I was looking her to fulfill needs That I had from my childhood patterns. That Really weren't the role or the responsibility of a romantic

partner and lover. And um and she was willing to serve those needs'cause I was fulfilling some security needs and other things that she had. Vers Um us really connecting at a romantic soul level. And so

Yeah, so I mean I'm rambling a little bit'cause I think it's everyone's story is a little different and I wanna, you know, protect uh, you know, the privacy of the relationship that you know we've been through. I I would say the other thing I just think that the book does is so well and the processes well is you just You know, you don't even work with your partner for the first You know. two to three months or the first two thirds of the book. It's all about you taking responsibility, you understanding you better.

And how you show up in a romantic relationship or don't. And that was just incredibly powerful. That is a perfect segue in a sense to what I was gonna ask, which is When does it make sense? for someone to read this book and also what would your advice be to couples who, like a lot of couples, maybe have their struggles but aren't yet code read, right? Is there something they can do before

They have to kinda Yank on the emergency stop on the train and Start doing triage. Sure. Well, I I think two things. One is I think you can read the book

even if you're not considering getting divorced. Um, even if you're just like in a relationship and you have your challenges like everyone else. Now obviously I think you gotta really, really disclaim To your partner that Uh, you're reading this book to grow your relationship, not to end it, or you need to read it on like a device that they're not gonna see it because it's I'm just imagining sitting on the couch cover facing out or don't worry about it. No don't worry about it. So it's not the the cover definitely will make it good if it wasn't in code red, it will get to code red quickly if you don't disclaim that. But I will say actually I if I can recommend another book that I've also read years ago and have gone back to reading again.

Uh and that's by an author named David Dida. And that's Way of the Superior Man. And that book, the title really doesn't give it justice because it's Equally important for women to read this book, I believe, as men. But it really helps understand. What the

Optimal polarity between masculine and feminine is, and how in some relationships the woman has the masculine energy and the male. as the feminine energy or in a homosexual relationship, that's definitely the case. But regardless of what your actual gender is. If a relationship is going to sustain The

energy that allows you to deal with all the day to day challenges in a relationship. You must serve this polarity above all else. And Heather and I definitely Did not do that. Um, and so I think for anyone in a relationship that might be having some challenges, maybe doesn't feel the same way as it did.

When you're dating or your early years. I even think before conscious uncoupling way the superior man uh be highly recommended. Uh as well. And it's a short read. It's a very fast.

Read short book. And the last name is D E I D A. I I haven't read it in a very long time, but I did read it I wanna say around two thousand nine and found it very helpful and that notion of polarity definitely stuck. As a

Kind of marker or litmus test. Uh that's uh important to be kept in mind and also something that's important to cultivate, right? Which is I think it's time to get to

The Tactics. Day to day installation. And you gotta first tell me why on earth start another company. Well, you know, the thing that's fun about it is I was saying I I took spoke to about this to several people now. Is what has been so liberating. And so and I wish she's the word joyful. I mean, I have goosebumps as I'm talking about this and almost starting to shed a tear.

as I answer this question because I really feel Kind of like the message I got in ayahuasca, I have nothing to prove to anyone. I don't need to make any more money. I don't need to be have my face on the cover of any more magazines, and I say this with humility, not with pride.

Because That feeling of not having to prove anything or not having any expectations has allowed me To create something. Maybe even for the very first time.

With such a purness of serving humanity. That it just lights me up. So I don't even feel there's this great Chateau Brian quote that I love. And it starts with the master of living does not distinguish between his work and his leisure.

Um, and he goes on and on. And then at the end it says but to him He lets others cast their judgments on what he is doing, but to himself. He's always doing both at the same time. Something like that. I I you should get the quote and post it'cause it's so good.

But This is the moment in my life where I feel like I'm truly doing it all at the same time because I basically took my own suffering. As we spoke about.

It led me on a pilgrimage to feel better. I was able to use um my relationships and resources to get access to top neuroscientists at Stanford and Other scientists from top universities And ask them

The people who are living I mean not like you know, extraordinary athletes or Or, you know, these f amazing specimens, but just everyday people, people who have A normal nine to five job.

Who have a family or no family, like people who are just Living but But doing everything normal, but still have A You know, an incredible sense of well being and fulfillment and flourishment. What are they doing that science has actually proven? And that was the big difference is.

You know, these peak experiences That we talked about. Plant medicine. And also Hoffman. You know, neuroscience says that there's really two ways to experience neuroplasticity.

It's to have these short, intense experiences, like we spoke about. Or To find these small steps that can be done with intention over time both ways. Can allow your brain to change, and your brain changing can affect your well being. So I went to the scientific community and said, What are these small things? that I can do every day that other people have already been doing.

And have proven And what I found was about ten things. And I have a great business partner in this venture. His name is Pat Dossett. І вас а наві сил for nine years. He is absolutely obsessed with

You know? Not just human performance, but just human well being. Ah he also has recognized like me that we are in a time And culture where we have some of the highest dates. of people on antidepressants.

Of all time. We have the highest dates of people taking sleep aids. highest reports of anxiety and so He is a man of service and when we connected he said this is how I think we can serve people, not just So you personally can feel better, but that we can share this. And so Over a year long journey and many, many amazing meetings and reviews of

Science. Uh, we were able to find ten Basic fundamental habits and practices that can transform anyone's life and definitely have transformed mine and my ability To cope with Any form of of stress or challenge is thrown at me. And that ultimately became

uh what we launched on March fourth, and that's called Made for. In what form does the service or product take? What is that? So it's that's it that's one of the interesting things. They're two macro philosophies of the program. that science really showed us. And that was number one is

It's very hard for people to make sustaining change. in their habits or lifestyle if they're trying to learn more than one thing at a time. And it takes about thirty days to really ingrain A new habit or practice. So one aspect of the program is Is that we only will teach you

And help you learn and integrate one thing at a time for thirty days. So the program is ten months long. Where you focus on one thing each month. And the second thing, and this is what really distinguishes it from many, many different you know, offerings in the market right now.

Is We found that It needed to be completely analog. There could be no app, there could be no digital device, there could be no you know, gadget that tells you how you're doing. You had to be able to feel it internally for it to take root.

And to be um To be the most effective from a neuroplasticity standpoint. And so the program is actually mailed to you. Each month in a kit. And so the kit has three components in it. The first thing is it has is all the science.

curated into a very simple twenty minute read. It's a little book that has been written in Very easy to understand terms that Gives you Basically

an understanding of what you're gonna learn and why it's so critical to your well being. The second thing is a tool that we s that we design that's unique to the Made for program. And this tool is something you're gonna interact and use for thirty days as you learn this new habit or practice. And then the third thing is a challenge card.

um and a little bracelet that you wear that reminds you of your commitment that month. Um, so some visual cues and the challenge card is a way to kind of get the dopamine hit every day as you complete. Whatever you're doing that day during the month. Um, and that's what comes in the kit. And so It comes once a month and then when you complete that one you go to the next one. But I

I wanna pause for one second to say 'Cause I think ten months and ten new things can feel overwhelming to people. The goal of Made 4 is not to teach you ten new habits. Now You might really integrate all ten into your life. But most of our members who've gone through already we had thirteen hundred people go through the beta over a year period.

You know, there's three or four things that really, really stick. And those three or four things have a huge effect on their well being and mental health and physical health. And so what we're really trying to do is help you shift your mindset more than anything. And your behavior first learn ten new things, but we have to teach you

This and have you have these ten experiences over this prolonged period time. For that to take place. What are I love the fact that it's analog only, just as a side note. Um I knew that would resonate well with you. Yeah, why while I why I still do so much by hand, uh, like an old timer, but what are some of the habits and practices? Can you give any examples? Yeah. So The thing that was the most surprising and I think encouraging

Um at least from um the learning experience was These are things that we all know already, or most of them. Um so one of the examples, uh, the most simple and foundational one. is the importance of hydration.

And so what we found is there is a large percentage of Americans that are chronically dehydrated, even though they say they drink water. But the science shows that every person's need for water throughout the day is very different based on the climate you live in, the diet, your activity levels, et cetera. But our body is made of seventy percent water. And even a one percent

Change. in your optimal hydration can affect your mood, your energy levels. I mean a lot of people have to have that Caffeine shot midday. I found that once I got my hydr dialed in. That's not as necessary anymore.

And so Hydration is one that's very simple. And so I'll just walk you through what the hydration month could look like just to kind of give you an idea of what the other months and I can share some of the other practices. But You know so we really teach you and we take all kind of the bullshit and myths of eight ounces or eight glasses of water or electrolytes or all this stuff that

It's been created to sell you stuff. And we really look at the science of hydration and we distill that down to a twenty minute read and explain to you why it's so critical. That This is something you need to really master if you're gonna live your best life.

The second thing is we've designed a beautiful water bottle that keeps track or helps you keep track of how much water you're drinking during the day. And it very specifically has these beads on it. They're almost kinda like a a prayer bead. that you move along this cord every time you finish a bottle. What the neuroscience shows us is that you get a dopamine hit every time you move a bead.

So not only are you feeling better because your head better hydrated. But you're also getting that dopamine hit when you tactically move this on the bottle. And the bottle is as beautiful as something that would look you'd find in the Moma. So it's something that you're proud to carry around. and have some identity with.

And then the third part of the hydration is the challenge of you know how many beads you're trying to get to and also a journaling exercise so you can reinforce the benefits of that you're feeling when you get properly hydrated. Now the thing I love about this is everything in Made for has what I would call a micro and macro mindset intervention. So the micro part of this is is that we hope after the end of the month You'll fully have a hydration practice and you will be the type of person that's drinking water throughout the day, and you'll know approximately how much you need to be drinking to feel your best. But the macro thing that's happening inside of your

brain when you're doing this is you are Building a fortitude of understanding that I'm the type of person that can stick to something for thirty days. Because a lot of people maybe never have stuck to something for thirty days like this. And so by making it so simple as drinking water,

Then you're better prepared when the next month comes than maybe it's a little bit more challenging because you've just had the benefit and the and the satisfaction and the momentum created of sticking with something for 30 days. So that already is changing and priming. your brain to take on other experiences. I think that's very important that you are building the meta capability of instilling And following habits.

That strikes me is incredibly significant. that you're certainly taking on these different practices and these different tools. But in following one thing for thirty days and repeating that cycle Ten times.

You are proving to yourself And also sharpening the saw of skill acquisition and habit formation. Absolutely. And then after that, then you can choose what your next thirty days look like. And then the thirty days after that, and then the thirty days after that. So that strikes me as very, very important. What are some other examples besides hydration? Yeah. So another one um is and I know you have studied this and you've already referenced it in the podcast is You know, we went very, very deep on optimizing the perfect night's sleep.

En and how important sліp really is. as a foundational practice. And so those are two that would obviously are more physical in nature. A mental one would be a gratitude practice. Now we've all heard that.

Gratitude is an important experience to be having an emotion. Um, and that you know, having a gratitude journal can help you with your mental health and But we went much deeper than that and we really looked at Different areas of your life where you often are

um missing out an opportunity to express gratitude and then change the way that you approach challenging situations in the future. Um and also really looking at How gratitude can strengthen very important relationships. In your life. that we know

I've been scientifically proven to affect Just, you know, how many times a year you get sick and your longevity. And gratitude, instead of doing the same thing every day for thirty days, like hydration, It's a series of different experiences you do every week.

that kind of get more and more difficult as the weeks go on. And so at the end of the month, І вдан four very unique experiences around gratitude. Some by yourself and some involving other people So that then you have a tool set. Of

ways to experience gratitude for your well being as you go forward, but it's not necessarily something you're committing to every single day for the rest of your life. And so that's an example of one that would affect More of the of the mental capacity. Um, and and ultimately what we're trying to do is we work through these things and they get

more challenging as you go. Is really Address your physical health. Your mental health. And what I would call either your spiritual or if you're not spiritual, your purposeful health, you know, how do you

And that's where the name made for came from is ultimately we're not just trying to help you understand from a science perspective, what you're made of in a in a in a very easy, fun way to engage. But also answer this question, what am I made for? And I think at some point in all of our lives. We ask that question, so we're creating a very systematic way.

you to ultimately uh get to an answer to that. I need to get that that gratitude module. ASAP. I need to correct my bad habits. Well what's been interesting is you laugh about that, but like um I'm serious. We launched okay. Well we launched this, you know, we launched we did a year's worth of beta group, um, and then we decide to launch on March 4th. You know, right before ковід найти. And we, you know, have had about a thousand people going through the program.

During um quarantine, and it's been amazing to see how this has created such a resilience. to the anxiety and the uncertainty and many of the things that we've been feeling and That's why I was excited to come on the podcast now because I think The two things that are gonna be hopefully most beneficial to people as we try to get back to normal life.

Number one is there's gonna be a higher rate of divorce than ever in our country's history is what all the uh experts in that field are are telling me because I have been doing some more Research and looking to do some more philanthropy there to help people with a conscious uncoupling. And number two is. is people need you know have lost their jobs they've lost their security they've lost uh they have a tremendous amount of uncertainty coming out. And so to help people with these

Daily habits and practices that can really Help them reintegrate. Um is I think very time sensitive. Oh, I could not agree more and I was one hundred percent serious on the gratitude the uh the sleeve you mentioned two things that have such

Historically had such incredible ripple effects in my life, namely optimizing sleep and regular gratitude practice. Yeah that None the less For whatever reason I And prone to neglecting. It's really embarrassing to admit. And a thirty day reboot sounds like

For me, at least, exactly what the doctor ordered. And I agree that it's time sensitive, and it will always be time sensitive in some respects. And people can find more at GetMade4.com. Is that the right? Yep, that's it. That's correct. Yes. Roger that. So people can find more information at getmadefor.com. Obviously, I'll put that in the show notes as well. I think this is a good place to begin to wrap up. And is is there anything else that you would like to say before we begin to Come to a close here? No, I just you know, like I said at the beginning, I just am appreciative to you For our friendship and and our ability to

connect on so many things, but for having me back on because I'm realizing as I realized the first time that like being able to talk in this long form and reflect on some of the things that have had the biggest impact. on my life and the many changes I've had. It is kind of a therapy session. So I've been really blessed. Uh I feel really complete. Um and uh and I feel that, you know, I I don't know if I'll ever reach a state of feeling fully awakened or enlightened as we read about it in the many many spiritual

books that exist and accounts that some people have had In that but You know, I I I do feel that like there is a moment and I think I'm having one right now where I've I've really done the work. And by doing the work and sharing the work with others and helping other people do the work. I'm seeing that it can work and you can

uh live in a state of real flourishing and that's my hope is that This conversation has Inspired uh someone in the many Yeah, myriad of topics that we covered. to dig a little bit deeper into some personal work.

uh and the inner adventure that they possibly are ready to go on. So thank you. Thank you, Blake. And you know I mentioned gratitude practice. Why not start now? If not now, when Tim Ferris. And I'll I will just say that I also really value our friendship and uh savor it. I mean that might sound strange. Value sounds almost too quantifiable. It it's something that I've found very nourishing over their over uh particularly the last handful of years where when we've had more contact and it's impressed me

How You Often very transparently view yourself as a work in progress as we all are. And I appreciate you also sharing your struggles because as I heard someone say once, you know, everyone's fighting a battle you know nothing about. And it's easy to feel alone. It's easy for people to feel

alone, isolated, or in some way uniquely flawed. And in a sense It's very heartening. Two Have someone vulnerably share. their stories and talk about conscious uncoupling and chapters and transitions that have no doubt at points been very, very hard. So I I appreciate that about you and appreciate the friendship.

And uh thanks for coming back for a round two. Yeah. We'll see we'll see you in another five or ten years. Uh well the good news is I got balled early, so I've already crossed that Rubicon. So I will not be getting any more balled and uh get made for dot com is the website. People can find you on social at Blake Mykowski on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. And once again. Uh really appreciate you. Taking the time.

Thanks, Tim. And to everybody listening. We'll put links to everything in the show notes at Tim.blog forward slash podcast. Just search Blake and it will pop right up. And until next time. continue to

Determine. What are you made for? Not just what are you made of and Uh Go easy, go easy, yes. Don't be too hard on yourself, especially during these COVID times. We're all a work in progress. Thanks for tuning in.

Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the the world of the esoteric as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out, just go to fourhourworkweek.com, that's fourhourworkweek.com all spelled out, and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it. This episode is brought to you by ReadWise. ReadWise is one of the cooler things I found in the last year or two, sent to me by one of my best friends. It is an app that helps you remember significantly more of what you read. In fact, on average, their users report remembering 84% more of what they've read and highlighted.

And it can take a few different forms. You can sign up for the service, that's readwise.io forward slash Tim and get a daily email, which I do, so I've got in front of me one example of highlights from Fool My Randomness Sapiens. priceless than a bunch of other books, and it has a bunch of advanced features on top of that. But we've all had the experience of reading a book or article, looking back a couple weeks later to realize that you don't remember anything from it or next to nothing. ReadWise solves this problem by integrating with Kindle, Pocket, iBooks, Instapaper, and more to send you a daily digest of all your highlights. So it helps you to build a fun daily habit. I love getting these emails, which I can't believe I'm even saying, because I hate email, but I love getting these. So you get a daily email in simplest form, and you can review and actually use the hundreds or perhaps even thousands of highlights that are just sitting in your reading devices collecting cyber dust. And this simple habit of reviewing your highlights daily can dramatically improve how much information you retain your space repetition and actually use. And quite frankly, it's just fun. It's really fun to see what you've highlighted over the years and forgotten about.

Some of it's really good. I mean these are things that ostensibly you want it to remember. ReadWise also provides tools for organizing your books, articles, and highlights. So tagging, searching, adding notes, creating flashcards, all that kind of stuff. You can even tell ReadWise to automatically export your highlights to EverNote. This is a big deal for me. I've had to do this manually in the past, but ReadWise makes it painless and super, super simple. And it just takes seconds to sign up. I was astonished by this. I thought the importing from the Kindle would take a long time. It takes no time at all. And believe it or not, you can also use ReadWise with paper books. That is if you have a paperback or something, you can automatically get the top popular highlights for your books simply by adding their titles. And you can also create your own highlights with the app's camera highlighting feature. This stuff is super cool. There's no reason not to try this out. I think it's incredibly incredibly useful, incredibly cool, and very fun. Go to readwise.io forward slash Tim. It's readwise.io forward slash Tim for two month free trial, offered exclusively to Tim Ferrational listeners. Again, that's readwise.io forward slash Tim for two month free trial. Readwise.io forward slash Tim. Check it out.

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