#134 - Why the Collectables Market is Booming, Ecommerce 3.0, and "Time Billionaire" Explained

I feel like I can rule the world, I know I can be what I want to I put my law in it like my day's off On the road less travel never looking back Sam, you've moved to Texas like, I don't know, how many weeks ago? Three weeks ago? And you look like a regular old Texas turkey right now. So let me describe so Sam's wearing a a camo hat that says Terry Black's Barbecue, Austin, Texas.

And then he's got like a vest like a hunting like almost like a hunter's vest, I'll call it. Uh he's got a wood background behind him and he's drinking uh Topo Chico, whatever that is. Topo Chico. Okay I am that is a fair way to make fun of me. I do look very Texan right now. I would say I always probably look Texan, but Uh Topo Chico. Have you heard of this thing? No, what is it? Oh my God. So I'm not a carbonated water guy. Someone gave this to me the other day. It's made out of it's like in Texas, I think Maybe in Austin or all of Texas. It's like considered it it's very, very, very popular. Every restaurant and like food truck has it. It's this water that's carbonated, but it's carbonated in a different way to where the bubbles are the most aggressive bubbles. And it like It hurts a little bit. And I it feel it like hurts so good. You've never heard of Topo Chico? No. You've tried this or no?

You guys have never heard of this. Okay. I even I had heard of it. Ryan Holiday tweets about it and Like it has a cult following and I'm one of the followers now. I get it. It's like I didn't understand it for a long time, but it's so good. I've been drinking like 10 a day. Dude, you gotta get your random food thing that you always tweet about. I was like, What do you mean? He goes, Hey guys, look at all these Twitter personalities. They all have this like You know, they talk about business all the time, but then they're really obsessed with one thing. He's like, you know, like Pomp's really obsessed with Domino's, always tweeting about Domino's pizza. Ryan Hoover was always talking about LaCroix. And uh he's like, You gotta get your food thing. And I was like, Oh, well, easy Chick fil A. Like I'm gonna talk about Chick fil A all the time. I already do, I really love it. And so Chick fil A is gonna be my thing. He's like, Perfect.

'Cause you're gonna need some people who love it and some people who are like, nah, it's overrated, I hate it. That's not a very controversial Choice. T not talked about enough. Like p most people aren't talking about it. I think you just have to have a food thing. I don't know. I agree with what Ben's point But your selection is so weak.

Like that's just like such an easy one. Tell me about my backup. My backup was Cinnabon. That's way better. That's very controversial. I think Cinnabon is Horrible. It's a New England. It's a New England thing, man. Like the people in in New York love eating that crap. I've gotten it at gas stations, like from a cinnamon store. No, no, no. Not not like a cinnamon bun.

A Cinnabon. It's like a different thing. Yeah, like that brand. Yeah, the brand. I think it's horrible. Oh, dude, I will cut you with this box cutter I have on my desk right now for saying it's a I think that they're it's way too sweet. Uh so uh good. Looks like we found our thing. Okay, good. Yeah. Oh, a couple of things. One, before this podcast we tried using Riverside

Riverside CEO. I think he listens sometimes. Dude. Great idea. It's still we had issues. This segment's called Fix Yo Shit. And you need to Fix Yo Shit, Riverside.fm. We can't use it to record our podcast yet. The way that we record this pod, it's overly complicated. So we record locally on QuickTime and then we have the video on Zoom. It's just a pain in the ass. Yeah, and uh and I feel like ten companies have tried to fix this and nobody really has.

But we should do anti sponsorship on every episode. Just a product that's driving us nuts right now. A product that's dropping the ball. Which is cool for them. Because like we wanna use it. It's like cool idea. Cool idea. Poor execution right now. Don't even hit me up because I've been false promised five times by five different products about this. Yeah, so that's not working out. And second of all, I looked at our numbers. First of all, numbers are going up, going up and up and up. I think yesterday's podcast we record Monday.

Or sorry, yeah, Monday, today's Wednesday. I think that was one of the fastest ones to hit about twenty thousand listens, like organically. Right now, you know, uh Spotify put out that like year end summary thing. How cool is that that so many people are screenshotting us that their most listened to thing on Spotify. is our podcast. It'll be like whatever, like four thousand hours. Listen. Frankly, I find it uncomfortable. I find it weird. I think it's strange. It's really strange. I almost get a little nervous because I have like business associates, like um customers or co workers, and it's Like Katie Huff, one of our co workers I was like in the top five of hers, a couple other people and I'm like, Don't you guys get enough of me? Why are you listening to this crap? So I told you uh I work with this guy, Ben, right? He's like kind of like my my right hand man on different content projects I do, different random ass like side projects, basically. So his wife was just like, Who's this guy that just like came into your life and all of a sudden you guys are working together on stuff and like you're talking at late at night on Zoom calls or whatever. And then

He was like, Okay, yeah, I'm gonna go run this errand and and sh he came back in the house and he was wearing his headphones. And then she was like, What are you listening to? And he's like, Oh, like, you know, the podcast She's like, wait, so when you're not talking to him, you're listening to his podcast? Like, no, no, no, this is too much. And he was like, Okay, I understand. That sounds weird, but I'm not listening to him. I'm just listening to the ideas of the podcast. I just like the ideas. And she was weird. The other day, uh we have to have Jack Butcher come on here, because he's one of the more interesting people I've hung out with lately. Yeah I became friends with him in Nashville and it's one of those things, you know, like when your wife and you

Each like the couple. Which is like rare'cause sometimes it's like it's like a multiplier five. And so that was one of those things where him and his wife and my wife, we all like each other. So we became friends very quickly and he drove down from Nashville to celebrate Thanksgiving with us. So we had like a For some, but not in Uh I I I realized I I was about to say that, then I was like that sounds a lot weirder. You know, like a four of us. Had Thanksgiving together.

Yeah, sorry, I didn't came off wrong. And then a dinner, like a four of the four of us celebrated together. And They told me that they listened to the podcast on the way down and on the way up. And I was like, that's really like that's so strange. Why are you W you don't need you need less of Of me probably not more. Well, I think the only thing that can take away our fame is us just talking about how it's cool all these things are happening. That's probably making for the most boring podcast. Unless you have something to to spin off that. Otherwise we should just switch topics. Let's switch topics. I'll go first. Okay. So

We'll do mine and then we're gonna do z uh segment called Time Billionaires,'cause I saw that title last time and uh It's very interesting. Something that I've been thinking about is writing tools. And the reason I've been thinking about them is So there's this company called Rome, Rome Research. They don't call themselves a breading tool. They call themselves like A way to map out your brain, I think.

Which is probably true, but like in essence it's a glorified To do list. Yep. And then there's Notion, which is I'm being over I'm oversimplifying it, but it is a writing tool. It is a note to app a note taking app. And when I say writing tool, I mean note taking app. There's a lot to it. So Notion raised money at nearly a one billion dollar valuation.

They probably only had ten million in revenue. Rome raised money at a quarter of a billion dollar valuation. I bet you they only had one or two million in revenue. So these apps Or these like web apps, these to do lists are getting stupid valuations. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Maybe it won't be stupid, but stupid in terms of extreme. They are more More general purpose than a to do list. Well, but here's my gripe.

Or at least not great, but thing I wanna bring up, which is there's a lot of things that do stuff just like them. Maybe not as good. But Uh very similar. And so I went and found like a whole bunch of to do writing ish apps.

And they're kind of shocking to me how many there are out there. And some of them are can be okay businesses for small groups. And I wanted to hear about why or for like a a niche type of person, why do you think that these two are get valued so high? And I have a list of a few others that are incredibly interesting, and I think that there's some opportunity here. So first, let me tell you about one of them real quick and then I want you to jump in with your opinion, which is Scrivener. Have you heard of Scrivener? I I don't know if it's Scrivener or Scrivener. Have you heard of it? I've heard the name. I've never used it though. Is it similar to a Notion or is it different? It's similar to a Notion. I bought it. It's pretty cool. A lot of people swear by it, but I wanna tell you a stat that's pretty crazy and I'm pulling up my Evernote to read this. So there's another one. So there's this guy named Joseph I think his name is Joseph Michael. He made half a million dollars a year selling a course on how to use Scrivener.

Is that crazy? Yeah, there's a guy doing that on Rome right now. I don't know how much he's making, but we've talked about him before. Uh he's got a how to use room research course and I think he's crushing it. Griven, it's created by this guy. I think it's a one person show. I think he lives in Washington. He's an engineer And you pay a one time fee of like twenty dollars to download the software, and then it's a desktop thing. Crazy simple.

Very effective cult following. I think there's a big like someone should actually just buy that business and make it better. Just barely better. So I see that there's I'm on the about page. So there's Keith, who's the founder. He's the one who made the Mac app and the IOS app. There's One person who's Lee he's a Windows developer. Uh two people, sorry, Window uh two Windows developers, and then there's one, two, three

Four, five. Six. Seven customer support people. And one sales director. Um, so I think it's probably evolved a little bit, but Barely. Probably for many years it was, yeah, just just this one one or two people. And it is still only two engineers, right? Uh three engineers total, yeah. Pretty crazy. I found this thing

This guy made a list of like sixty seven of these. And he like try to list out their revenue and stuff. There's so many of them. It's kind of wild to me. Yeah. So okay, so what do you want to talk about? The more of the independent kind of builder thing, but I think we talked about that. I think let's let's talk about the writing side of things. Okay. So first, why the hell Did Notion and Rome like take off like this? I would say If I was gonna boil it down, I'd boil it down to two factors.

The first is like the general rule of the internet, which is that to the victor goes all the spoils. So most people have a hard time wrapping their head around this because In the real world. You know, you make the best restaurant in town, you're gonna win Just your town and really not even your whole town you're gonna win just dinner.

just in this like kinda just in this one, you know, strip of of restaurants really is where you're gonna you're gonna win the most. And On the internet, there's no like geographic boundary. So the best person of any one thing, the best tool, the best teacher, the best whatever. is gonna get everybody. They're gonna get the majority of the market to use them. Because if I'm gonna pick, I might as well pick the best one. Uh might as well pick the best most well known one. Or I might as well you know if it's a course, I might as well learn from The most well known, the best course rather than than the second place. So because There's no geography on the internet.

If you're the best in the world, you get to accrue almost all of the value and you get to sell everywhere. So that's why these tools in general get quite big quite quickly. Uh like why would why would Notion get so big? Well If everybody's using a no-taking app and Notion becomes the best one, it's gonna win. Now, what makes it the best one? I think what they did well. It was the same thing we talked about last time, which is social software or multiplayer software. Where basically Notion was good because it wasn't just your notes app like the one that comes stock on your computer because It was like a Word doc. You could sh uh Google Doc, sorry. You could share it just with a link to anybody else. So sharing became easy.

And then not just sharing, we can both actually write on the same thing. So collaborating became easy. And the notion goes even further. Like for a while our podcast website, actually even now, maybe the podcast website was just a notion doc. that I turned into a website. Because I was like, I don't wanna learn how to build a website. Let me just Hype. on this document and then push like

Publish and now that's uh Now if you go to you know my first million podcast dot com I think it probably still is just a notion doc that's up there. That's kind of the the main thing that they got right. Uh and then the the the thing you said about Rome, I think is an important point, which is like

It's not just a to do list app, or it's not just a note taking app. It's meant to be like your brain. You know, put onto a c a computer or your your brain put onto to onto the internet. So it's like The key with Rome is that you link ideas together. So All the other note taking apps were just you write a note, that's just a note on its own. But in Rome, it's like Wikipedia. When you write a note, you can reference a different note. And so it creates this web. So all your ideas, which Your ideas in your brain are connected. So Rome lets you connect your ideas in your notes as well. That's the the sales pitch, at least.

So I disagree with the point you made about The what what did you say? The spoil on the internet the spoils go to the what the Victor goes to spoils, yeah. Yeah. So there's actually I'm gonna steal this from a great blog. Have you ever read Joel on Software?

Yes. Okay, so Joel on Software is written by this guy named Joel s what's his last name? Spolsky? Yeah. Okay, so this guy is so interesting to me because so he started this agency that built websites for people in the early two thousands, maybe in the late nineties, I don't know exactly, but when the internet was getting going. And From that agency, he spun off many different things, including uh some bug tracking software that probably made him quite wealthy that I don't even remember the name of it. The other one that became popular was Trello, which ended up selling for six hundred million dollars. The other one was uh Stack Exchange, right?

Yeah. Stack overflow and stack overflow stack exchange. Yep. Which is huge. And then I also think I always get these confused Discord or Discourse? Not Discord. Must be discourse. Okay. Right. I think. There was like three other things spun off of it. Like oh billions of dollars worth of value created off of it. Anyway, he's got this great blog and he's a very good writer. He's very to the point and I like him a lot. And he's got this blog, this post that always stuck with me, and it was called Strategy Letter One. Ben and Jerry's versus Amazon. And he basically says when if you're building a company, you've got a very important decision to make because it affects everything else you do. You have to figure out which camp you're in. You have to decide are you in the Ben and Jerry's model?

or the Amazon model. And the Ben and Jerry's model is basic or the Amazon model is basically you have to get big fast because you're using some type of new competition or new technology where there's very little competition at first and the winner takes all type of market. But then there's the other Ben and Jerry's model where there's a market that already has a whole lot of competition And Customers can pick. More than one, there's very little network effect. There's very weak customer lock in. Whereas with Amazon, it's a much stronger network effect. Customers get locked in. Anyway, things like that. And so for Ben and Jerry's very little capital required. You can break even pretty quickly with Amazon. You need to spend a shit ton of money in order to get big. Yada, yada, yada. And so with these note taking apps, I actually think that they are in the Ben and Jerry's model, not the Amazon model, where you have to get huge fast, and once you take the market, you have everyone because Evernote was like this and Evernote will ended up being a horrible company, I I think. I guess what I'm saying is like

ever know reached the billion dollar plus, you know, value mark. Notion is going to reach that. Rome is probably going to reach that. And if you compare that to the Scriveners and the Hemingway's and the other kind of like indie kind of apps, they won't amount for one percent of the total market cap of this industry, of the total market size of the of of that industry. And so I think While it's true that you can Go the sort of simple, independent Profitable don't chase kind of like this growth dragon path. In reality, if you just looked if you zoomed out and you looked at okay, where'd all the m oh and this note taking or this like kind of like this writing software market, where'd all the money go? It's gonna look like ninety nine percent to one or two players and then everything, you know, one percent shared by a hundred players.

Yeah. Probably. Although I was still very shocked at how many there were. So I found like a few that were interesting, which is agenda.com. Badass domain name.

the great domain name. It seems like they might be huge. I found this other one called Campfire Tech. Have you heard of this? No. Look it up. It's pretty interesting. Oh, sorry, I got the wrong one. Campfire Tech is another one that has uh thirty thousand users and does a million revenue. Sorry, this is a different one. It's called seventy seven hundred and fifty words. So Google seven hundred fifty words. Tell me what you see. I see seven hundred fifty words.com, write every day. It says join whoa, five hundred thousand other writers by signing up right now. I kinda believe that actually.

'Cause sometimes people just bullshit that number, but let's believe it. So what is this all about? It's about it's about developing the habit of writing every day. Yeah, so I think it's just a prompt that says write seven hundred and fifty words a day. He said something like He has thousands of people who have done it every single day for like five years. It's pretty incredible. I'm gonna build a tool like this someday. I know this is like in my future. Like I just built this Chrome extension and uh well, I didn't do it. My friend Jake did it. And I love it. And a whole bunch of people

uh who like subscribe to my newsletter are using it and they love it too. And it's a such it's like the most dead simple thing. There's no money involved. It's a free, free thing. But um I wanna build more soft I want to build more little mini tools that just Are Like extensions of my life or my philosophy. It's it's a chromi session called Focus and uh My to do list philosophy is called One Big Thing. It's like I do I do one big thing every day.

The beginning of the day I figure out what's the one big thing if I did just that one thing. My day is a win. And if I do that for three hundred sixty five days in a year, I'll Yeah, it's like Thorto in the hair. I'll outpace all these like ultra productivity nerds who are trying to like do these complex systems and have these long to do lists and like

They're try they're using Pomodoro timers to like optimize all their time. Mine is real simple. Figure out the one highest impact thing I can get done today. do that one thing. Anything else I do is gravy. If I don't get that one done, I failed. And uh that system works for me. So this is a it's a Chrome extension that basically every time you open a new tab, it's just a beautiful photo and it says, Good morning, Sean. Your one big thing for today is And it lets you type it in. And then every time you open a new tab, it'll just show you that one thing. And then if you're done with it. You hit done and it like celebrates.

And then there's a one line at the bottom that'll just like random all these like random little phrases I wrote that were like, you know, get it done like a nun on Sunday. Or like Make it happen, Captain. Or whatever, just like a little line. That's it. It's just so simple. But for people who want To adopt my system, I made software basically that helps them use my system. And I I made it for myself. Do you have Google Analytics installed on it? No, we have nothing installed on it. Okay. So we made the most even if you search the Chrome the Chrome extension store, you probably won't even find it yet. It's just called Focus. Did I tell you have we I don't remember I think I did it here. Did I pull up the analytics on our little Chrome thing? You did. I remember you it was crazy. It was like I don't know a quarter million Page views per month or something like that. No, I think it's more. It's gotten sixty million page views in the last two years. So however many like that So like with your thing, if you get that was all we only had at most eight thousand users.

So like with just a couple thousand users, you can get stupid amounts of page views on these Chrome extensions. So what I'm gonna do is I'm trying to Make these tools that I like, give them away for to other people, either for free or for a small amount. This one's for free. And then just like think about how I could add more value. So for example, like the we're gonna add a thing that like in the middle of the day, it'll pop almost like calm. It'll be like here's a two minute just break, just a relaxation break. Just put your headphones in It's just relaxing sounds.

Even if you don't know how to meditate. Just take two minutes to like rest and recharge for a second here while you're in the middle of your work day. And so we're going to add these little just little droplets into the Chrome extension or like If I write a new blog post, I'll be able to promote it through this. And the good thing is the only people using this already like my content anyway. So it's not like I'm forcing it on people who don't really know about this. It's like for the community. to be able to access stuff easier. Yeah, I've said this for a while. I think that like these Chrome extensions are some of the more

stickier products that you could possibly make. And I also think that they cost a way little money compared to building just a normal software thing or a normal app. So I'm I think that these Chrome extensions are great ideas. There's a great Chrome extension idea in the trends group yesterday or the day before. I don't know if you saw it, but uh you try to pull this guy's name up. This guy was like, Hey, I'm gonna build honey for saving you money on SaaS software. So uh what does that mean? All right, so Honey is this Chrome extension, you install it, and then as you shop online, it like goes and looks for like discounts for cheaper prices of the same product and it's like wait.

Yeah, before you buy it. go here and it's cheaper or something like that. I don't really use honey, but that's my understanding of it. And honey was like a billion dollar outcome. Three or billion dollar outcome, right? Like how much did it be? I thought it was four. I think it's three or four billion by PayPal, I believe. So this is smart because what he's doing is saying, Oh, you're going to MailChimp or you're going to whatever the SaaS tool you're using is that has some monthly fee.

And he's gonna try to save you money. And so he goes, My marketing pitch is Okay, so I found uh Brave found the guy's name is so his name is Sean McCl. McClellan. And I love this idea. Like I would invest in this idea if he's like actually gonna build this. So he's calling it loot. And it's honey for buying software and it helps you find discounts or credits on top of all the popular software tools you use like AWS, Slack, HubSpot, and more.

And his pitch was like instantly save ten thousand a year on software tools, stop overpaying, loot will find you discounts on the stuff you already use. So where does he get the discounts? So I think what he's gonna do, I don't know, I haven't like looked into it, but either there already are discounts available if you like go search, you know, just sort of like coupons that are out there for the public or first time customer discounts or whatever. Or there's affiliate deals already in place and it's just gonna be like Wait, don't sign up. Use my affiliate deal, which saves you money and I get or I get a kickback and I'll save you the money according to it. So I don't know exactly how he's gonna get the discounts, but

I think it's a great uh this is a great, great concept. Yeah, uh it's quite interesting. I know a little bit about the space because we looked into doing like a buyers club for software. We were gonna monetize off the subscription. But obviously if you can get affiliate, it make it be far better to have millions of users or hundreds of thousands of users, you know, sort of like honey or something like that. It's quite interesting. Another person doing this

And he's a good friend of mine, but what I'm saying I've just learned by going to their website. App Sumo. The App Sumo business model was basically they got hundreds of thousands of people's email address to or they got them to sign up for the email and the idea was Groupon for Geeks. So basically we're gonna give you discounts on software. And they would negotiate these deals with vendors and they send it out to their list and then App Sumo would keep fifty or sixty or seventy percent of the gross revenue that they drove to that software provider. How big of a business is App Sumo? Well Uh, on a recent podcast he said it was thirty million in sales.

But I don't know if that means gross or net. If I had to imagine if I had a guess, I would guess that means gross. Sales and they keep Probably sixty five to seventy percent of it. So what's seventy percent of thirty million? Is that a Then I would imagine that they're in the range of fifteen to twenty million in actual sales. I like the Chrome extension approach for this because I think you don't have to remember to go do anything. It's just gonna pop up and say, Hey, by the way, do you wanna save on this site you're on? And uh

Yeah, I'm into saving in general. There there's a there's a trend towards some cool saving products. So one is do not pay. We've talked about that by that guy, Joshua. Yeah, I used it try to get out of some tickets. It's okay. I like the concept though, and I think they've done well with traction so far of like, hey, we'll unsubscribe you from things. We'll help you get out of parking tickets. They just released one, like a really niche one that I need, which is like 83B filings. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. So you you know, because it's such pain in the ass, you have to print it out, you have to mail it to the IRS, so they'll just do it for you. Do not pay is one saving thing. Main Street is killing it. So I looked at investing in them, ended up passing, but I really like Doug and I like what they're doing, which is like they connect to your kind of your books, your QuickBooks, your payroll software. And then they they go and they like there's all these government RD credits, like there's all these different tax credits that you can go get, you know, if you took the time, you did the paperwork, all that stuff. So they just know what all those are.

Then they look at your payroll and your QuickBooks and they say, Oh, you're eligible for this, because you have one developer working out of Idaho. Did you know that there's an Idaho state credit for engineers that are hired in Idaho? And they'll just do it for you. And now they're even doing it even better, which is like they just look at your stuff and they just give you like an instant money. They'll just be like, Hey, here's 10 grand now. And they might make twenty grand off of it, but like here's ten grand for you right now, instantly without doing any work. And so I think that's a model that's designed to grow very, very fast. I will probably regret not investing in that one. Honey is a s is not money saver. That was Main Street, you said? Yeah, that's Main Street. I'm on their website right now. Looks pretty slick. It looks good. They've advertised with us and the Doug's and the trends group. You think this is gonna be huge? Yeah, I I initially was like, I think this is gonna be I think I was like, I think this is worth a bet, but then the valuation kept going up. Like just in the our back and forth of our emails, I was a little slow, he was a little slow.

The valuation kept going up and For better or for worse, this this like fucked up psychology where If you thought you were getting it at ten dollars and now you're getting it for twenty five dollars You're just like anchored to the ten. Even if twenty five is a fair price now, it feels like a massive overpay to me now because I know A month ago I could have got this at ten.

And so even if I think it's gonna be worth seventy five, it's just hard to buy it at twenty five, even then, which which is weird Let's actually talk about that. Yeah, let's talk about that and then time billionaires. So that's an interesting topic. So I remember When our company just got started. And I remember the first year in business we made close to half a million dollars in revenue. I don't remember what our expenses were, but soon after that Our expenses

raised to like I remember thirty eight grand one month. And I was like, Oh my God, thirty eight thousand dollars. And then soon after, the second year in revenue, we did two and a half million. And so it was good growth and we were profitable, but I remember like going from thirty eight thousand a month in burn or in expenses to eighty thousand. And I went to Nerdwall Nerdwall, the founder is one of our investors. I went to his office and I go, Hey And his office is the former Twitter office and Nerdwalt makes so much money and they had this like big cafeteria and it was lovely and they like built out. They probably spent two million dollars. I I don't even know. Millions of dollars building out this cafeteria. And I go, Tim, like

It's crazy. We went from thirty seven thousand to eighty thousand. Like that's so much money. Humored me and acted all like shocked. He's like, Oh my God, that's so much money. But he was like, look, at the end of the day, like stop thinking that's like your like don't think of it as like that's how much you spend in your personal life or and that was a really hard concept for me to understand because I remember thinking like I've never bought myself a new computer in my life. I've always bought us shit. And

I would like tweet out like, hey, who's got to use laptop I could buy? And I was doing this for the business like thirty times. Anyway, that idea of getting over like certain numbers was a huge barrier to me. Have you had that same thing? By the way, particularly now when we're talking about our company, we're like doing like all right, our revenues we're gonna try to do this and then this, or we're gonna try and sell eventually for this much money. Like that's really hard to overcome some of those like mental barriers around money. Yeah, there's there's a whole bunch of them. Mine haven't been those exact ones, but they're more like the one I was talking about, which is like the cheap Indian person in me wants everything at a deal. And so as soon as something gets either fairly priced or overpriced, even if it's still gonna be a good net investment.

I find it super hard to pull the trigger. Actually, in fact, I just now I've been accumulating a very for me, large position in Bitcoin. And I'm basically buying like, you know Last five days in a row, I bought twenty five thousand dollars worth of Bitcoin. Uh just like every morning I just wake up and I buy twenty five thousand. I hit my limit on Coinbase of how much I can buy of Bitcoin. For a long time it was really hard for me to buy Bitcoin, even though I believe in Bitcoin. But it's like when I first bought Bitcoin, it was like in the three hundred, four hundred dollar range.

You know, now it's nineteen thousand dollars per coin, right? So I'm spending twenty five K, I'm getting one point. one six of Bitcoin or whatever, like some tiny amount of coin for it. But for a long time I just held back because I was like, well, I bought in at the four hundred dollar mark. And instead of increasing my position as I got more bullish, I was like, dude, it's nine thousand dollars per coin right now. I'm not gonna It seems weird to spend nine thousand when I bought all these other ones for four hundred. Like what a stupid decision when in reality, like It's progressed. It's actually I have higher conviction now. There's more proof points now. There's more adoption now. It's worth more. I found it really, really hard to do. And in fact, I was telling Ben, I was like, hey, Ben, I'm making a very big bet on Bitcoin. I'm either gonna look like a total fool or

Or I'm gonna get rich off this bet in the next three years. And I said I was like, here's the reason why I'm into it and uh you know, why I'm doing it if you want to do it too. And he was basically like, Oh, it sucks to buy like If I put ten thousand dollars into Bitcoin right now, I'm getting half a bitcoin. He's like, maybe I'd rather buy Ethereum. 'Cause at least with Ethereum I'm getting ten of them.

And I'm like, well, it doesn't matter. Yeah, it doesn't matter. He's like, but it's just like he's like he's like, I wonder how many people are gonna have this same weird psychology, which is why, for example, stocks do stock splits. Because like now you can do fractional share buying now on almost every platform, but still Tesla doesn't want to be a$2,000,$300 stock. It wants to be a$300 stock. Because more people will want to buy three hundred dollars a share and buy ten shares rather than One share for three thousand dollars. And so there's this weird psychology around that that I've run into a whole bunch, and it has ended up costing me a lot of money. Because I've passed on investments either in startups or Bitcoin.

Or Ethereum, where I should have been increasing my position, but I was too tied to the original price that I could have got it at. Yeah, and that's something that I've been struggling to get over the same exact thing that we're talking about, where it's like Why is that emotion tied to that thing if the math makes sense? So another example is I just bought a house and I paid nine, let's say a million dollars for it. Nine eighty, I think. I forget exactly, but something like that. And

I was looking at the trailing fifteen years of annual growth rate. And then I was looking at how much I think I could rent it out for. And I was looking at the IRR. I'm like, okay, that's fascinating. And then I was like making another like kind of a risky bet that it doesn't matter if it happens or not, but I'm like I think this house in ten years Or so could maybe sell for one point six. And I told that to my Austin friends and they're like, There's no way

Anyone was gonna pay one point six for a home in that neighborhood in Austin. And I was like, Well why not? Would we like the if the math the trailing fifteen years says this, why wouldn't it? And Also, do you think that people thirty years ago would have said there's no one someone's gonna pay a million dollars like million dollars, right? Which is probably true, right? Like if you like look at if you like look at like and then I told my broker that he goes, Yeah, that's always true. He goes, For example, my dad a place in New York for eighty thousand, it's not worth Over a million, people always think that and it's really hard to understand compound growth. And I thought that's totally true. It's hard for me as well. By the way, if in ten years something you're saying essentially goes up like sixty percent, that's actually quite bad. Well, for for a r a residential property, I think that Well, it's fine for uh it's fine for r uh it might just be what a residential property does, but I'm saying

The way to look at it is alternatively, if I just rent this place now at the market rates, and I I that goes up by this much per year, and I just invest this in the stock market at the sort of average seven or eight percent. return, my money will double. In I right, so I think at ten percent a year in seven years you double. But tip the market's right around the six and a half mark over the trailing hundred years. So it doubles about every ten or eleven years. Right. I think it's uh I thought it was eight percent when I last looked. Uh maybe maybe like since since the gold standard or whatever. Something like that. So it's like which segment of time do you want to look at? But it's in the range of s let's say let's say six to eight, which is

A ballpark. So basically it's ten years, ten years to double. Right. And so if you're going up sixty percent in ten years with your house, you could have doubled your money. You could have gone up a hundred percent if you had just Done the done nothing, you know, path of like put it in the market, don't have to remain it's don't have to deal with anything, right? Which is why I think unless you're gonna rent it out and make income from it, buying a home is typically a bad investment. Right. But you did it anyways because you just wanted to. And I'm renting it out. But Oh you're renting it out. Okay, gotcha. I'm I'm renting it out and also I wanted to. Like if it doesn't make money, I don't give a shit. And I want Texas residency and all types of stuff. Yeah, that that makes sense. Okay, cool. I like that. You want to talk about being a time billionaire? Yeah, have you seen this? Do you know what I'm gonna talk about here? No, I don't, but it's it's a really good headline. Okay, so I kinda love this concept.

Kinda hate it, kinda love it. It's corny, but I love it. That's the disclaimer. So I was uh scrolling on Twitter and there's this guy, Blake Robbins. I don't know if you follow him, and he tweeted out this thing I thought was pretty interesting. So he was He had grabbed a screenshot of a Tim Ferris podcast where Tim Ferris talking to his guy Graham Duncan. And um he's like he goes to Vers like time billionaire like w what do you mean by that? He's like, Well

I was thinking about this concept. This guy was pointing out the difference between a million and a billion, and he's like A million seconds is 11 days, right? Not very long. A million seconds is 11 days, but a billion seconds is 31 years. Which is like kind of like that's the difference between a millionaire and a billionaire. It's like there's this huge factor difference, right? So okay, so million and a billion are different. What's the big deal? And he's like, Well, I think about that when I, you know, when I see billionaires or I see a twenty year old, and he goes, Here's the thought experiment, right? You could take like Warren Buffett or Ruper Murdoch, these like dinosaurs who were eighty to eighty nine ninety years old. And they're like, you know, have like a hundred billion dollars. If you ask them, hey, would you give up everything, give up all your money?

But you get to be a tw a broke twenty year old, would you do it? And like absolutely they would instantaneously do it. And if you ask the Broke twenty year old Would you switch spots with Warren Buffett? You could have everything Warren Buffett has, but you're gonna be war you know, you're gonna be his age and you're gonna you're gonna be Warren Buffett.

And um You can have his fame, you can have his fortune, but you're eighty you're I don't know how old more about it is like ninety four or something like that. Close to dying. Yeah, you could be that old. And like the twenty year old would be absolutely foolish to take it, right? And it just really points out that like although we kind of like glorify the billion dollars and all that stuff, like Clearly.

Youth and time is the asset, right? To the point where a broke twenty year old, a broke thirty year old even uh would never trade spots with Warren Buffett. And Warren Buffett would instantly trade spots with a twenty year old or a thirty year old or even a forty year old probably. So I think that's a kind of fascinating, but it to me, it brought up Two things. So that's just kind of like the Oh wow. you know, time is the real asset, you know, like

Youth is the real asset. It brought up to me like this idea that I had heard from somebody else. Which is that there's there's many kinds of billionaires. So this guy calls them dollar billionaires, right? So there's a dollar billionaire, which means you have a billion dollars. This guy Tyler Cohen has a thing called cultural billionaires, which is basically like I believe I haven't looked too far into it, but let's just assume it is what it sounds like, which is that like you have an influence, your cultural impact, which is Mother Teresa.

It's like a billion people, right? Well, Montreista is actually a different one, which is like, could you be a helpful billionaire, right? Could you help a billion people, impact a billion people that way, an impact billionaire? And then there's others which are just like sort of like a a time billionaire. And so I like this concept. And it's interesting when you put it that way because you're like Well, which one do I really want to be? And what am I optimizing for? Like, right? Like I have a friend, uh we have a friend, uh Sully who said, you know, I heard this guy say this once and I thought, Oh, this is true. This guy goes A billionaire to me is not a some not somebody who has a billion dollars, but somebody who helps a billion people. And uh I think I told you the story, but our friend Vishal, who was all about making a billion dollars, was there and just he just goes

That's fucking stupid. Cut it down. Which I thought was hilarious because Who's gonna argue against that? But he was like, That's the fucking stupidest thing I've ever heard. So you know, different people value this stuff differently. Anyways, I thought it was a cool concept. What do you think of this? I think it's a great concept. It's timely because So There it's something I've been thinking about. So I'm thirty one years old, I'm married, I don't have kids, but I'm getting to the point where I'm considering having children. And doing that, I'm slowly, but not yeah, considering like what do I want my life to be? You know, like when you're young, it's like

I'm happy to grind. That's all good. But it's like all right, well, how would I wanna set up my life and how would I wanna prepare my future non existent family yet? You know, you just start some of these existential questions that you probably are a few years ahead of me with asking 'Cause you um have a kid.

Uh have kids. Uh anyway. I'm asking myself that now as well, and it's an interesting question and Basically like could you work really hard to get a quick win early on in your life? But then that slowly is gonna be a risk of you working hard your entire life. And slaving away.

And is slaving away worth it or not? The answer is sometimes it is. But also the answer is a lot of times it's not. And it's the ego that is likely like, would you rather have a job that pays you a really good salary of like hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and you have to work very little, or start or work at a place that has potentially huge impact on the world makes you famous. Inflates your ego, but you gotta it's your life's purpose and you there's nothing out of it. That's a really hard thing to ask yourself, and I frankly am not sure where I stand. I think it's hard, right? Like because it comes down to this question of like what are you optimizing for? Right. So it's like one hard question, act to answer it, you actually have to make uh have to ask a different hard question, even harder question, which is kind of like What's the purpose of life? If it's just to be happy, then uh you know, doing all like basically going and starting a company and trying to you know become super wealthy.

is probably not the best way to be happy. You know, like the things that make people happy tend to be these like sort of other five things, including like sort of family, friends, blah, blah, blah. And so like why would you ever sacrifice your health, sacrifice your time with your family in order to get money? And this is sort of like pointed out by like there's this whatever famous quote by the Dalai Lama, which is like man, it's Man is so so interesting, right? Like He sacrifices his his time, money and health. Uh to get money.

So that he can, you know, uh wish that he had the time back and buy back his health. And it's like, you know, uh a butcher the quote, but there's like a Dalai Lama quote that's that's exactly like that. Or there's this other quote that's like youth is wasted on the young type of thing, which is like we piss away time when we have it. And when you're young, you don't realize how valuable it is to be young. You only realize it when you get old, which is unfortunate. Do you follow Nick Bear on Instagram or YouTube at all? I do after I follow him on Instagram after we uh but I don't use Instagram much, but I follow him after we did the pod with him. So he was on his pod, he has a a fitness program or a fitness nutritional company, whatever it probably does great. But his whole shtick is he started the company and he's also like the main content guy. So he probably spends a lot of his time doing content. And his content is all about being fit. So right now he's training for an Ironman. So he probably spends four hours a day working out, which is his job technically. He looks like shredded. He's like looks like a model. Like he's he's got huge muscles And it's just a fitness freak.

And I see him and I'm like Man, that would be badass to be able to exercise five hours a day and just like that would be my job. But then the other time I'm like Do you really want that? Like would you be ha so I don't know. It's it's a really challenging question. So th there's this other quote that I like, which is Tim Ferriss said this one thing or or I heard it from Tim Ferriss, I don't know who he got it from, but it was A great decision.

Saves you a thousand more thousand future decisions. This is always like let's say you let's say you decide I don't drink. Then you don't have to decide every time, am I gonna drink at this bar? What am I gonna drink? Like, no, like you've already made the one decision that saves you a thousand future decisions. And um this is why like having values in general for yourself or for your company is so important because like Whole Foods doesn't need to decide should we carry M and Ms or whatever, because it's like no, we made one decision early on, which is we only s serve We only are gonna sell this type of food. We're gonna stand for this. And so then they don't have to make certain decisions later. If eco friendly matters to you, then there's only one type of packaging that you should be using. You don't have to go through the thousand, a thousand other options that are not eco-friendly. It saves you that time and mental bandwidth. And so

To me, the decision that saves you all the future decisions, right? Of how do I spend my time, what should I do? Should I take this job? Should I take that job? Should I sell my company? Should I start a company? Like the way to save yourself all those decisions is to figure out. What am I optimizing for? If I think about these different types of billionaires that we talked about, mine would be like I'm gonna be a joy billionaire. Like I'm gonna optimize for joy. And I'm gonna just write down the things that give me joy. And bring joy, you know, when I'm joyous, I'm kind of that brings joy to the people around me. So what are all the things that give me joy? And I'm gonna design my life to do those as much as possible. And I'm gonna design my life to avoid all the things that suck my joy away. And so I've literally the easy part.

That's the easy part. The easy part is setting your life up that way. The hard part is figuring it out what you want. Because most people, myself included, are very Influenciable. And so you see This is why I don't watch Wolf of Wall Street like that movie.'Cause I see I see like

A good looking actor who's having a blast and makes it look fun to screw people and to do drugs. And I'm like Oh, that's so fun, let's do it. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't I know what you mean. So I don't watch that shit. Or I don't watch um, you know, billions. Yes. I was getting too influenced by I'm like, Oh no, this guy's actually a bad person, but it's they make it look awesome. And I can I'm very easily influenced. And so I'm like I I gotta I I'm gonna avoid that. So the problem is actually not doing it. It's deciding.

what it is you want. What would you say? What are you maxing? What is I think in engineering terms it's like a maximizing function. Like what what are you maximizing for in your life? What are you tr which attribute are trying to maximize for in your life? Personally, I haven't made that decision yet. I don't know. On autopilot, what do you think that ends up being, or what two or three does it end up sw switching between? Definitely money was one for me for a long time, maybe even now. Yeah, money. Money. I would say making money and Everything career driven. is what I'm maxing not cheaper.

Yeah, achieving is uh one hundred percent that I sacrificed a lot of stuff in order to to do that. And it's so funny because I don't always have to do that and yet I still make the decision to do it. I think that I imagine the way I was raised, I imagine it's similar to a lot of immigrants where it's just like What do you mean you're not gonna work? Like when someone messages me Saying like, Hey, do you want to get lunch on Thursday? I'm like, No, dude, I have a job. And they're like, but you're the boss. And I'm like, I don't understand what that means. Like I have to go to work. It's like a really hard thing to break. Yeah, I'm with you. I I I agree it's really hard, but I think it's worth doing, right? I think it is once you decide

I think it makes all your other decisions easier'cause you just say, Okay, cool, does this incre if I do this, does this increase the joy in my life? For me, right? This is increase the joy in my life. All right, cool. And not just like in the moment, but like kind of like on a sustainable basis, right? Because some things will give you joy in the moment, but will give you extreme, you know, whatever the opposite agony, suffering, you know, shortly after, right? I can drink a bunch, that's gonna give me joy right now, but I'm gonna have suffering on the hangover tomorrow. So net it's negative. Did having did having kill children? Having a kid, did that change your Because I think that like when I got married, I was like, Alright, I feel a little bit more responsible for someone else, but in reality, like

I can kinda do anything I want. I don't really Like it's I'm still pretty hedonistic and pretty selfish. No, I think that didn't change me, uh, in that way. It changed me in other ways, but I would say for me it was like selling my company. It was like, Okay Right, so I got some money. Not all the money. Got some money. You know, I've achieved something.

Didn't hit a home run, but I've but I've achieved something. And I was sort of like all right, well that chapter's done now. So now I'm deciding what I'm gonna do next. And when you start to decide what you're gonna do next, you that's when it becomes hard because While you're in the middle of something, it's very hard to like fucking reassess all your Values and what you're optimizing for. Cause then most of the time the answer is stop doing what you're doing and go do something else, which is really hard to do.

But when you have like a clear, a transition time, that's the time to ask those questions because then it becomes very easy to like Sketch out a new picture for the next chapter. So it was more that. It wasn't really Having a kid made me think this way. It was like I ended one chapter. I didn't rush in to start a new chapter yet. And in the meantime, I talked to a bunch of people who I think are interesting and wiser than me, and I read a bunch of stuff.

And like the thing I've come out with is that, you know, this is how I need this is how I want to think about things. And it just so happens that your transition period is having like a two and a half million dollar. Angel investment fund. So that's a pretty good investing in companies is actually a very agonizing experience, but it's like first world problems. So you can't really complain, but like Somebody said this uh the other day. I heard it, it was like Um Everybody who invests before me is just a dart throwing monkey, and everybody who invests after me is just a spreadsheet, you know, just a s just just a spreadsheet. That's just you know, they took no gut risk or whatever. But it's very true. Like

Whenever you invest in something, you you never invest the right amount at the right time. You're always like, either fuck, I should have invested way more or way earlier, or you're like, I should have never invested, or I should have invested way less or nothing. No matter what the outcome is, you've you never get it right, which is kind of a freeing feeling because There is no like perfection that you can get there. The other thing that happens when you invest is like You either invest in something'cause you're like wow. Yeah, I think this could work. Or you're like

Oh my God, this is gonna work. I should not invest. I should just compete with this person. Like I should literally go start this company. I wish I was this founder. Oh my God, they're about to like. go on this ride that I want to go on, which is like they're gonna crush this market, they're gonna become rich and famous, they're gonna build this amazing company. And I wish I was doing that right now. And I get that feeling all the time. What's one company that you want to shout out that you get that feeling with? Um okay, so which one? Okay, so I invested in uh levels. And everyone's talking to me about levels and they have no idea that I am even remotely associated with it. I think that one might be that one. That could be one. Uh I I didn't invest in that one, but I'll tell you one that I'm seeing right now that I haven't invested in I tried to invest. I couldn't get into one of the rounds, but This is kind of a good one. I was gonna save this for the next episode, but we'll do it. So

This is the reward for people who make it through the whole episode. You get probably one of the best ideas in a while. And We can come back to it on Monday. So okay, so I saw this company. I think I told you about this collectible trading card thing that we had this opportunity to buy like a forty million dollar trading card. like assets that, you know, some guy had collected for many, many, many, many, many years. And we had the opportunity to buy it for like 10 cents on the dollar. And that got me into this world of trading cards. And collectibles. And I kinda knew about it before. Like I knew that like eBay had gotten big very much on the back of collectibles.

I knew that like StockX and Goat and these like sneaker marketplaces were doing really well. Because people collect sneakers and they trade at like Two thousand dollar sneakers that people will buy, because sneakerheads are like this like fandom. But now I'm like way deeper in it where I'm like I'm seeing what's going on in this world of Pokemon and basketball cards and baseball cards and like it's crazy. So here's a trend I'm seeing that I'm looking at. So there's these companies, I'll give you two names. One is called WhatNot.

And the other one is called Loop. L O U P Yeah we talked about You and me and one other person. Oh, Jack talked about whatnot. Yes. Uh On the podcast or off? Off. Okay, yeah, yeah. So so whatnot is basically

If you open the app, you're gonna see live streams of people doing what they call card breaks, which is basically they take a pack of Pokemon cards like, Oh guys, this is a Pokemon card pack, that's whatever, you know, like the base set. Rainbow Collection or whatever you want to call it. And then they're like We're gonna op if you buy this pack, I'll open it live and let's see what you get. And there's all these people watching this happen. And so like Literally the screen is like It's just like a table of a bunch of unopened packs.

And then you go in and then on the you're watching the video and you could just click buy and that buys a certain pack and then the guy opens it and he's like, Oh shit, you got a Charizard and then it's like they'll mail you the pack, or you could just be like, Okay, I'll swap that in for like some credits and then like I'm gonna buy them. So the people The people opening are employees. Yeah, the people opening are the owner of the packs, which can sometimes be the platform itself, or it can be just like another card seller who has a bunch of bunch of stuff. What a cool ass company to work for. So whatnot I think is interesting. I tried to invest, didn't quite get into the round yet. Then there's Loop, which is doing this for sports cards. And so I was on there last night. This guy has this table and it's just full of sports card packs. And

It's like the jankiest frickin' app, and you like you go and you hit like I wanna buy this Prism basketball card set. And I'm hoping that inside is like a Luka Doncic rookie card that's like in good condition. And uh he opens it up and it's like, Oh, you didn't get the Luka, but you got this other thing, and it looks like it's, you know, maybe a nine out of ten. We'll we'll send this off to get graded. And by the way, I don't know if you saw the grading company that just got bought. Did you see this?

So who. So there's two big grading companies, one of which is PSA. PSA just got bought yesterday for seven hundred million dollars by n a group led by this guy, Nat Turner. Oh, wait, the fucking flat iron guy? Yes. So he's a huge He's a huge collector, huge trading card guy. Uh by the way, I think we're getting our names wrong. Nat Turner is the slave who ran the guy's name is also Nat Turner. Okay. It is. Oh, you're right. Remember we we did that once before we were like the slave. So it's like Uh this Nat Turner. So he invested in all like every one of these platforms I'm looking at, he's already in. He also has like multi-million dollar collection of collectibles himself. And so then he rounded up a group and they bought PSA for 700 million dollars. No shit. Which it well they bought Collector's Universe, which owns it. And I think this is an amazing buy. Like I was actually looking at buying some of these things. I was like, oh, if everybody

Wan remember we had talked about certification startups. If you're the SAT, if you're the certification everyone needs. In order to like be valuable, then you have this power just in your name. And that's what PSA is. If PSA says this is a 10 out of 10, Then the card's a 10 out of 10 and it's worth more. And so everybody has to pay T PSA. And they they spend like$10 plus per card. per grade that you get. So and it takes like months to turn around. There's like no technology involved. So I think it's really smart for a technologist to go buy this company because it already has the brand. Now he's gonna be able to bring technology into if making this uh these operations way more efficient. He should drop the costs, increase the speed, and branch out even further.

And so I really like this, but um so he bought uh Collector's Universe. So anyways, I think There's a bunch of interesting stuff happening at collectibles. I'm digging in right now and trying to invest in a couple of different companies in this space. So if you're doing something, let me know. But I would say in general, there's what I'll call e commerce three point oh. E commerce three point oh is like

Fuck your your store, your Shopify store, that's just like a grid of images. And I don't know like it every every one of these stores kind of looks the same. It's just these like perfect models. You don't know what the things actually gonna look like. You can't ask questions, there's like this intercom bot that says they'll reply to you in six hours over email. And so instead what I think the future looks like is what's going on in Asia, which is It's a live stream video. So it's like TikTok. You swipe, you see a seller, and they sell whatever the hell they sell. They sell socks, they sell trading cards, they sell whatever. You browse their catalog, you know, just at the bottom of the screen while they're on live, and you can see it's like really authentic. You see the seller, you see the person behind the brand.

You see the products, and you they're not like Photoshopped and all this stuff. It's like the actual products. And all they need is an iPhone to like run their store, just streaming. And you can actually just Click up product in the catalog, they'll hold it up to you and be like, Oh yeah, I love this thing because it's great. Here's how the bottom of it looks. It comes in this packaging. You can ask a question through the chat and then you can hit buy and they'll be like, Great, it's yours. And and you just check out through the app. That's what I think e commerce is gonna look like. And I think it's gonna Make Shopify look like a dinosaur in the past. Let's uh do an entire episode on Monday about this because this Nat Turner thing, I didn't know about it.

I wanna dive deep into this. This is so interesting that this guy did this. I think it's bold. I think it's cool. He's like a high tech guy. So he started a ad network and he also started a health company that's sold for two or three billion dollars. Now he's doing this. I find that to be so fascinating. This is like a rich nerd's playhouse. Yes. Yes, I I would agree.

That's exactly what it is. I wanna see his collection too. I think he's got kind of an amazing collection himself. But I like this. I like the space and it was a lot of good stuff. There's a lot of stuff that's happening here that most people are not paying attention to unless you're in this world and then it feels like your whole world. Well I see Logan Paul doing it and I'm like, well if he's doing it, it's like really big. Gary V's been pimping it, Logan Paul's been pimping it, and that's why Pokemon prices have been going up because those guys were actually sort of able to move the market in a way. Like they actually had enough influence to move the market. And they add more credibility and legitimacy to it. In the same way, right? The reason I'm buying Bitcoin is like Well, you go look and you see that Raul Paul said I'm moving ninety percent of my worth into Bitcoin. Ninety percent. You see that uh Paul Tudor Jones, the billionaire hedge fund guy, said he's he's accumulated a two percent position in his portfolio of Bitcoin. Two percent for Paul Tudor Jones is a is a is a massive amount of Bitcoin.

You know, grayscale. It raised like a billion dollar plus fund and bought all Bitcoin. All they did was they called all the capital up front and they bought Bitcoin. Who's Grayscale? Grayscale is a crypond that was started by these two kind of like well-known crypto. And you would think that they were gonna invest in all these different crypto projects and all this stuff. And they raised like a big fund and they they were you know, most funds that call the capital over a period of five years or so. And these guys called all the capital up front and when Bitcoin was at like between four and eight thousand, they just put the whole fund into Bitcoin. And uh which is hilarious because all they did was buy Bitcoin and they're taking a twenty percent carry. Like no no no genius involved, but it's already performing amazing, right? You know, since then. There's so much going on in the world right now. This is so exciting. There's so many opportunities. I'm like, I want to know, is this normal? I can't imagine this is normal. It's there's all this stuff happening, it's just are you aware of it and are you looking in the places where the

The action is, right? Square and PayPal, I think each said that they're putting something like$50 million. They're hold they're just gonna hold$50 million of Bitcoin as part of their sort of treasury. There's another company that that said they were gonna do four hundred fifty million dollars. And so there's all these people buying in that are institutions, not just like, you know, crypto nerds anymore. Now every investment firm has to have a Bitcoin strategy. It might be We're not buying Bitcoin. It might be we're buying a small amount, it might be we're buying a big amount, but they all have to have a strategy now for Bitcoin. And I think that's a big, big change that wasn't the case before. With Bitcoin specifically, one of the exciting things is that. About

sixty percent of the kind of supply that's out there. is just not moving. It's people who are long term holders, they're not selling. So really like there's is this There's a supply problem. There's only so much supply and there's a lot more demand. And that drives up the price. And when the price goes up, it reinforces all the people who are holding to keep holding. The next wave are also gonna hold because they just bought in. And so they're gonna want to hold too. And that's gonna cause the supply to keep shrinking and the demand to keep going up. You'll put me in that category. I've never sold.

I don't intend to either. I I don't even have the log. I don't hold it either. I don't sell and I don't hold I lo I lose. I lose it. I don't know where it is. Yeah. Um Well what we'll do on Monday is Let's talk about Ecom and trading cards only. All right. Sounds good.'Cause I'm into it. We're gonna talk about Rally, which I love. I like Rally, you know Rally. Yep. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about We should bronze, by the way.

Tech Smith. All right, I'll set it up. He knows more about the space he knows more about this than either of us. What time is it in Hawaii right now? That's where he lives. We can adjust our time. Eleven A. Okay, so he'll be up. He'll do it. I'll set it up. Alright, we'll talk to y'all soon. I have drank three Turpo Chico's white bit on the phone, so I or been here. I've gotta go to the bathroom so bad. So I'm gonna log off. Sounds good. See y'all later.

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