#589: In Case You Missed It: March 2022 Recap of The Tim Ferriss Show

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Hello, boys and girls, this is Tim Ferris. Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferris Show, where it is my job to deconstruct world class performers of all different types, to tease out the routines, habits, and so on that you can apply to your own life. This is a special in between episode which serves as a recap. of the episodes from the last month. Features a short clip from each conversation in one place, so you can jump around, get a feel for both the episode and the guest and then you can always dig deeper by going to one of those episodes. Based on your feedback, this format has been tweaked and improved. Since the last recap episode, for instance, at Hyper Sundays on Twitter suggested that the bios for each guest can kinda slow down the momentum in this format. So we moved all the bios to the end. So we are listening, keep

Giving us Feedback. View this episode as a buffet to whet your appetite. We had fun putting it together and for the full list of the guests featured today, see the episode's description probably right below where we Press play in your podcast app, or as usual, you can head to Tim.blog slash podcast and find all the details there. Please enjoy.

First up Morgan Housel Best selling author Of the psychology of money.

I I will say, you know, I ended up with a tremendous cash reserve. In part because I got my nuts kicked into my throat in two thousand Seven, two thousand eight. It just both self inflicted wounds in the case of selling Amazon and then in the housing market. And I was very conservative

After that point, or I should say I took a barbell approach of sorts, right? So not some Taleb talks about this, but I was in the Bay Area. I felt like I had an informational advantage If I wanted to really commit time to trying to become well versed and well networked within technology. So I decided to begin angel investing. That was the highly, highly speculative, potentially high return investing side of things. And then the rest was basically in cash. I mean the equivalent of being in a mattress. I mean I didn't even have the guts

to put it into an index. And I missed some tremendous, tremendous growth as a result of that. It didn't bother me though. At the time at least, I was still sleeping pretty well. I was enjoying learning what I was learning in tech. And then in January began tracking COVID. This is of twenty twenty, and I was able to deploy a ton of my cash reserves. Basically end of March, beginning of April. So it did well

But One could very I think convincingly argue that I would have made more money just by having it play in the market for a longer period of time. But I think that would have made it hard for me to sleep at night, having just had my face ripped off. I know I'm mixing a lot of metaphors, face balls, you get it, but it was unpleasant, is the point I'm trying to make. And I'm going to bring this back to How you think about

success in investing. And I hate that word, so I'll I'll parse it out a little bit, but I want to read something from a blog post that you wrote. Or an article. I'm not sure which you prefer. This is on the Collaborative Fund website, internal versus external benchmarks. And let me just read these two paragraphs. The most important point may be this. Internal benchmarks are only possible when you have some degree of independence. The only way to consistently do what you want, when you want, with whom you want, for as long as you want is to detach from other people's benchmarks. and judge everything simply by whether you're happy and fulfilled. Okay, I'm g I wanna bold that in your mind. Judge everything simply by whether you're happy and fulfilled which varies person to person. This next paragraph

I circled because I just thought it was really worth reading over and over again. I recently had dinner with a financial advisor who had a client that gets angry when hearing about portfolio returns or benchmarks, and none of that matters to the client. All he cares about is whether he has enough money to keep traveling with his wife. That's his sole benchmark. Quote, everyone else can stress out about outperforming each other, he says, quote, I just like Europe, end quote. Maybe he's got it all figured out. So I just love that because It's highly subjective, meaning it's personal, but it's also very objective. It's an absolute measure. And it's an example of, you know, unless he gets a lot of lifestyle bloat and wants to have a yacht in the Mediterranean or something. It is a goalpost that won't move. All right. So you talk about the importance of the goalposts not moving.

In my experience with people who have gone from very, very moderate circumstances to not having much money growing up to being very, very successful. Offhand, I'm sure there are some examples, but ninety-nine percent of the people who come to mind. Course smart. I think good people who are very much students of life, the goalposts have always moved. Yep.

And so I want to know. What you've seen work. Or not work in that. Specific domain and how you think about it for yourself.

I think it's it's the single most important topic. In money in investing in finance, and it's the hardest thing. to actually make work. Those are both true statements. It's the same for me. I can write about this and say what people should do, but it's the same for my wife and I. Like we struggle with this as much as anyone else about getting the goalposts to stop moving. I think if there is one thing That has helped Me and I would say helped, not fixed, just like I helped a little bit around the edges. It's something that we talked about earlier, which is that just the idea, the observation that.

Но вони аз. And therefore, so much of people's willingness and their desire to spend more. It's just a social signal. to show people how much money you have, whether that's the bigger house, the nicer car, like whatever it is, like you you just wanna show other people. And once you realize that people aren't thinking about you that much, They don't care about you that much.

They're thinking about themselves and how much people care about them. Once you realize that, then you're like okay. I I I I can see what the game is. It's a game that I can't win, so I'm not even gonna try to play it. I just want to focus on the internal of like What's gonna make me happy?

What do I want? What's actually gonna give me pleasure? And let's just do that. And I don't want to think about anyone else. What's that for you? What's the happy and whatever the other thing I bolded, which I promptly forgot, but what are what are those things for you? I wanna wake up every morning and hang out with my kids and I want them to be happy. And I wanna do it on my own schedule.

If it's a Wednesday morning and I don't want to work, then I'm gonna sit on the couch all day and watch Netflix. And if it's a Sunday and I got a good idea, I'm gonna spend all day working. It's all my own schedule, on my own time, whatever I wanna do, it's that independent autonomy. Can you not do that right now? Yes. Yeah, I can. There was a point when I couldn't. And that's why I feel like I'm I'm I'm pretty happy and I feel like I've done a decent job of doing that.

Now I do have As a lot of people would, a tendency to be like, oh, what if I got that Porsche? What if we got the bigger house? What if we did this? What if we did that? And it's fun to think that because I love nice cars. I love nice I love all of that. It's just so easy to realize there's a great quote that I love that's the grass is always greener on the side that's fertilized with bullshit. I think that's that's really what it is. That's that's that's that's the accurate phrasing of that of that well known quote. And

I think that's really what it is. Like the idea that all that nicer stuff is gonna make you necessarily happier I think it's just so easy to disprove, especially once you've experienced a little bit of it yourself. And that actually what is going to make people happy is that independence and autonomy. That once I remind myself of that, I'm like, okay. And then the game of earning more. Just becomes A game. It's less about like, oh, if I have more money, I'm gonna be happier. No, if my net worth is 10x what it is today, I'm not gonna be any happier.

That was not true at one point in my life, but I think it's true today. It's probably true for you right now. It's true for a lot of people listening. And therefore, you can admit that a game is fun and a game is fun to play, but just admit that it's a game and it's actually not going to make you happier. I think I may have a solution for you. I think that all of that experience as a valet could come back to serve you. If you took like a Saturday shift as a valet and took a few Porsches for a joy ride, I think you could scratch that itch without the expense of Or the the guilt and karma associated with buying one. You can also buy one, certainly, but see actually I I'll I don't think I've ever talked about this before, but I actually do scratch that itch when I rent a car. When I'm traveling, I rent a car, I always get the extreme upgrade, the highest upgrade that they have. A lot of times enterprise will have a Porsche or something sitting around and whatever the price is, I'm doing that That's how I scratch the itch.

without actually buying it. That's a great way to do it. 'Cause you can rent you can rent a Porsche from Enterprise for like Three hundred bucks a day. It's not cheap. It's not it's not sixty bucks a day, but it's it's a lot different than buying the damn thing. Next up

Matt Mullenwig Co-founder of the Open Source Publishing Platform. WordPress. Yeah. What is one fear you would like to conquer?

Mm. You're gonna answer the same one? I can or you could choose another one. Yeah. I think that'd be it'd be fun if we both answer it.

Inspire. A different way of thinking about it in each other. You know, I have a hang up Around Body issues.

Mm. And Exercise and stuff. Yeah. And it kinda got

bigger in like the past six months. And as I'm thirty-seven now. Not the old man. We first heard Mollinweg. And um Yeah, I think that's a fear I like to conquer'cause it's totally irrational. What is the fear exactly?

I don't know how to articulate it, but there's something where I don't know how to articulate it.'Cause it's it's a fear. It's not it's not rational, it's not something I can put into words. Well, I mean there are there are a lot of fears that are rational, right? So just because it's a fear doesn't automatically make it irr irrational. I think this is probably irrational one. Yeah. All right. Um Yeah, something around

It's like an insecurity. I'm not gonna let you go. So is it an insecurity around Appearance? I think it's something Hm he's Yeah.

I'm sorry, I don't know how to go deeper. We can this is this is where I should do Do some heavy lifting or help do some heavy lifting. What would be an example of a time when it shows up for you? The resistance

I feel around Sort of exercise. That's been growing. I would say. Where

It's It shows up like a fear in that I can think of so many Excuses why? Including like I'm gonna injure myself again or I'm gonna hurt my knee or Uh my wrists are bad right now, so I shouldn't be doing this or like

Things like that. But which really just add up to be a bunch of excuses. What do you think that is protecting you? From Like if you did not have

It seems like Yeah, you're a smart guy. Mm-hmm. So there's probably some part of you not to like go too far into like IFS Dick Schwartz type stuff, but Like your subconscious is trying to protect you from something.

Potentially. What is it protecting you from? What do you think it is? I don't know. I mean it could be injury, right? It could be Performing below your expectations. Perhaps like if you exercise that you're not going to meet some standard you've set for yourself in your mind. I have no idea.

Mm. So it sounds like a it's a hesitancy. That you can't fully explain. Therefore it's kinda falling into the category of fear for you. Yeah. Okay.

Have I for you? What's a fear you would like to overcome? Man, how much time do we have? Uh I don't I I think that's a bit of an an an overstatement, but I I mean Shit. If we're drinking

Drinking our single malt. And really going for it, I would say The fear that I am just hardwired. And Also just software coded through DNA.

To be depressed and unhappy. And that that is a baseline I cannot escape. Like there is the gravitational pull. Two Out of the box settings is so strong. That no matter what I do, no matter how many morning routines I tweak, no matter how much I exercise, no matter how much I program meticulously

different areas of my life. Like. regression to the mean is always going to be to a place of depression or This is a strong word, but like self loathing. Something that is not quite self loathing.

at a ten out of ten intensity, but like a discontent and disappointment with Myself. That's it. That locked in something about mine, which is

Make a fear of being bigger. Bigger. Yeah, my family's bigger. Bigger meaning. I feel like obese. Yeah. Like I have some pre built settings. Proclivity towards that. Yeah. Hm.

Do you believe that? That's your Do I think we overcome that or Depends on the day. Depends on whether I've had a good stretch. Or a bad stretch or

An average stretch? I mean Even if it is Deluding myself. I want to believe that it is

Something I can overcome. I don't See. how the alternative plays out. Is terrifying to me.

If I truly, truly believe that a hundred percent of the time. The consequences of that are like staggeringly Scary. So I don't want to believe that.

But If I were a scientist just looking at the data set, I'd be like, Yeah. Like if we're if we're rating days like negative two, negative one, zero, plus one. Plus two. Somewhat like Jim Collins does. If people want more on that, you can just listen to the first

But I would say I probably average out. Negative one? Mm. Just on an emotional tone. The gestalt of the day being sort of

Positive energy, negative energy. No way. That'd be interesting to do. I should do it also because I do think and my girlfriend has certainly pointed this out and I I recognize it as true that I have a negative selection bias.

I think a lot of humans have negative selection bias because you get rewarded by overreacting to Threats. You feel a dollar you lose seven times more than a dollar you you gain or keep? Yeah. I mean they've done studies around this. Yeah, like how hard would you work to make a hundred dollars versus how hard would you work to avoid having like a hundred dollars stolen or taken from you, right? Yeah. So That is one of my macro fears.

Next is Susan Kane. Best selling author of Quiet. The power of introverts. In a world that can't stop talking.

And her new book Bittersweet. How sorrow and longing Make us whole.

I know you have written about In some respects inheriting the grief. Or griefs. of our parents and ancestors. Could you speak to that? And

Also mention if there's anything to be done. Is it just like having a Like small calves and you're like, Well I mean, I can go to the gym, but they're always gonna be pretty small. Or is there something that we can do with whatever we have

accumulated through our bloodline. I went down this whole path of looking at inherited grief and I ended up devoting a whole chapter of the book to it because Originally it was just because I went to this seminar for bereavement counselors,'cause I was just

Curious to learn more about that. And what I found was We were each asked to tell a story of loss that we Had experienced. And I

I really didn't want to tell my story because I felt like It wasn't as bad as some of the other stories that I I heard that day and I Fell. Wrong to be talking about it. But I felt like I had to'cause it seemed ungenerous, you know, not to tell my story. And then when I did, I found myself

Crying much more than anybody else had. And the seminar was run by this incredibly skillful guy named Simcha Raphael. It was at the New York Open Center. And I forget how he came to it, but he basically said to me

That I seem to be Carrying a grief that was apart from what I personally had experienced. So I was carrying a deeper grief than that. And that it was a kind of grief of the ancestors. And I started realizing that I come from this family that's kind of

Mired. In loss, really. on both sides on my mother's side and my father's side, we lost almost all of our Relatives in the Holocaust. And although those weren't people who I knew

Directly. There's kind of a a shockwave that Reverberates through. When he said that, I realized that I had always had this kind of tendency

Even when I was a kid, to cry at any kind of moment where it was like That which once was will never be again. Even though at that point I had not really experienced any loss in my life and I had a happy life. I still had this intense reaction. And once he opened up that idea I started

researching the whole area of inherited grief. It's absolutely fascinating. There's all this research that finds that That the children of Holocaust survivors have particular Biomarkers. Yeah. you wouldn't find in another control group population. I mean you can find this in animals too. It's a pretty new area of research, but the results are incredibly compelling.

There seems to be this This idea, this thing that we can Inherit. from the people that came before us. And you know, in a way the question of whether it comes to us biologically or because of what we learn from our parents.

Culturally, it almost doesn't matter, we're inheriting it somehow. And then to your question of what can you do about it. I have found it incredibly empowering to know this because There's a way in which you can Get to the inside of

I'm gonna love those ancestors and I'm gonna feel empathy for that which they experienced. At the same time that you're holding the idea that Their story is not my story.

And I don't think we take the time to realize that you can do you can hold both those truths at the same time. Their story is not my story, and yet I love them. These people I've never met before. 'Cause music has been our theme here. There's this amazing song also by

Dar Williams, it's called After All and she it's a masterpiece of a song and it describes how she had been beset by a kind of mysterious depression and to come out of it she Travel down what she calls the whispering well. Of Talking to her parents about Her family history.

And realizing all the different things that she was carrying from the people who had come before her. And how that process of excavating all of that and understanding it And loving it. That was what freed her. And then she comes out into a Shining light on the other side.

And it it helps her with her depression. So whether we're doing that through some kind of formal therapy. Or through Our own sort of ad hoc process of travelling down the whispering well. There are ways to do it. We don't have to

take this right turn because it could really uncork. Pandora's box, but this is part of One facet Of exploration in looking at psychedelic assisted therapies. Mm-hmm.

Is multi generational Trauma or Ancestral grief. And

I also wanted to mention Lest anyone listening. Think. Who are these wackadoodles? This sounds like some new agey bullshit. I did a quick search just to pull it up because I know it exists.

Here's an example, and this is in Scientific American. Fearful memories passed down to mouse descendants. Genetic imprint from a traumatic experience is carries through at least two generations. This is from Nature magazine. which is also a very respectable Steam publication. And There are, in other words, animal models and scientific studies and peer reviewed literature. That supports this.

In various species of animal. Including rice. And the authors suggest a similar phenomenon could influence anxiety and addiction in humans. No, there there's a lot of skepticism. I'm just gonna

Just gonna read a little bit of this very quickly. Some researchers are skeptical of the findings because a biological mechanism that explains the phenomenon has has not been identified. I am kinda skeptical of such skeptics because We all use, for instance, microwaves every day, but very few of us understand how microwaves or refrigerators, if you don't like microwaves, how they work. Right. So in the absence of a mechanism. This is also true for a lot of commonly prescribed medications. We still don't actually understand how they work. But putting that aside, So according to convention, this is going back to the article, the genetic sequences contained in DNA are the only way to transmit biological information across generations. Random DNA mutations, when beneficial, enable organizations to adapt to changing conditions, but this process typically occurs slowly over many generations. Yet some studies have hinted that environmental factors can influence biology more rapidly through epigenetic modifications, which alter the expression of genes. And it goes into

many more examples and so on. But there are a lot of scientists, very credible scientists, including Looks like it's a good thing. Many quoted in this, Carrie Ressler, a neurobiologist and psychiatrist at Emory University. who have studied this in animals and I want to say someone could call BS on this, but I want to say that

It's even tr like this biological material can sometimes be transferable from one animal to another. Even if they're not direct descendants. So if you use, say, electrical shocks, Two produce a state of acute anxiety and learned helplessness in mice when you turn off the lights, that there is some way of transferring genetic material from that animal to an unrelated but same species animal that will induce

A similar fear of the dark, even though it has not been learned. So There is, in other words, a biological basis. There seems to be. a biological basis for what exactly what you're talking about. Right? Because Holocaust In the grand scheme of things, as as the example you used. Not that long ago.

Really just not that long ago. I wanna offer two other ideas of ways to cope with that if you feel that If you're listening and you're thinking, Oh, you know. this actually might speak to. my experience.

One is just kind of a simple reframing that Rachel Yehuda, who was the the researcher who first discovered this epigenetic tradition in Holocaust survivors. She talks about how one of the people who she worked with Just started to understand

this in herself and she started to reframe when things would happen to her, like she'd have a bad day of work and kind of overreact. She started saying, Oh, well, I now understand that my shock absorbers are are a little thinner. than somebody else's might be. And so I'm just gonna adjust. Around that. And the simple knowledge and acceptance is an incredible power.

To take it even a step further beyond that. I talk to a lot of people who Are what you might call wounded healers. Which is a kind of archetype. In the Western tradition, people who have experienced some kind

of a wound or pain and then use that to try to heal the same pain that they see other similarly situated people. Experiencing. And I talked, for example, I I write about this in the book with uh

Of a young woman who I called Farah Katib. She didn't want to use her real name. She's from the Middle East. And she felt that She didn't just feel she she came from a family in which all the generations of the women before her had suffer these horrible experiences.

Of rape and bereavement and all all kinds of things. And she just found herself like Called. job for a multinational company doing marketing or something. And as part of that job

They had to do that thing you do where you do lots of focus groups and listen to people's stories. And as she listened to the stories of other women. There was something in those stories that touched this nerve in her of all the generations who had come before her of women in her family. And she found herself leaving that job. And flying back to the Middle East.

And starting to work with women prisoners. And then starting her own not for profit to help women refugees. And there's something about that Work that she's doing to help Heal other people.

That is simultaneously. Healing. Herself. I also want to say at the same time, it's not like That's kind of a grand story. And when when we talk about creative people who transform pain into beauty, you know, and they turn out to be Leonard Cohn.

That sounds like really grand also. But You don't have to Be doing these things on such a grand scale. It's just You can be doing them on the most minute level and you're still going through that same mechanism of

taking pain and turning it into something else. It's the mechanism that matters. Next Mark Zuckerberg. The founder, chairman, and CEO of Meta.

Which he originally founded as Facebook. in 2004. So let's talk about the the training yourself to be uncomfortable or to become more comfortable with discomfort. Does anything come to mind just in terms of managing your psychology? For my own psychology, the way that I try to manage this stuff is

Yeah, wake up in the morning. And you get like whatever ema you have of like stuff that's going on in the world. Right. So it's it's world events, it's team events. Whatever trends we're we're seeing across our our products. And Often in there there's a fair amount of

Bad news. And like new things. That I need to absorb. And One of the things I found that just just for kind of managing myself

Is that If I try to just go straight into the day Almost every morning when I wake up and like read through my my emails and get the news, it's almost like getting punched with sort of like a ton of new context and it's like okay, I need to like internalize this. So I found that Doing You just something physical.

And and something that's like meditative to take my mind off of it for like an hour. Then I can reset and go do work is really important. So that's why you know things like foiling or surfing Have been really imp Because when you're out there in the water, it's like

Pretty hard to focus on anything else. When you're on the board, you're focused on making sure you stay on the board and don't mess something up. When you're not, you're You know, especially if you're if you're kind of towing or something like that, there's not a whole lot of downtime. So I I I've found that from my own performance is significantly better. When I have something like that that's like meditative and

physical and and allows me to Kind of output. Some energy and then I can come back in. And it's almost like I'll have subconsciously settled all the news that have happened in the world. Now it's like okay, now let's go deal with it. No, obviously if there's something that's really an emergency, I'm not gonna you know, go do a sport or something, I'll I'll go deal with it and and obviously part of life is you you don't always get to control your schedule and and that's Kind of how that goes.

And when I compare kind of how I do On the days when I kind of get to have some time to soak that in or to kind of have an outlet versus Just like jumping right in. I I find them often like stewing in bad news or something, and then I just I I'm not as productive. So That's sort of my my own personal

way that I that I try to to manage situations like this. But Obviously a key part of this is like having an awesome team and And it's not it's not, you know, primarily about me at this point. It's a big company and We have awesome people who are who are running all these different groups, so I get that the what I'm what I'm saying, kind of how I've worked out the system for myself, isn't necessarily something that would work for a lot of other people.

I think the the meditative palate cleanser makes sense though. Uh especially if you're talking about things like foiling where the consequence of a lapse of attention on what you're doing has immediate penalties. So it's you know it's regulating in a sense. Maybe I'm not um strong willed enough or calm enough to just do straight up meditation. It's like I actually need to put myself in a situation. Where it's difficult to not focus on that thing.

Part of this too. I mean I I do think managing energy is an is an interesting thing. I mean some of the the the folks who I who I work with at the company They say this lovingly, but I think that they sometimes refer to my attention as the Eye of Sauron. And that basically. They're like you have this unending amount of energy to go work on on something and if you

Point that at any given team You will just burn them. But at the same time just kinda managing that. So that way I can like manage my own energy and Diffuse it w well enough so that way it's like okay, I have the thing that I'm focused on that that day And I it's it's really important to me that I can

As often as possible, manage my schedule so I can actually Focus on the things that I'm naturally thinking about. I just think the engagement that you get of having like a an immediate feedback loop around thinking about something then going to getting to go talk to the people who are working on this. is so much better than like going and scheduling a meeting that you'll have three weeks later when I mean maybe the topic will still be important, but it's not like what's going on at that time. So

Getting that balance right, I think, is a is an important thing for sustainability for the organization as well. Last but not least Rock and Roll Hall of Famer. Stuart Copeland

I Have there been particular Dark periods are difficult periods, but if going up to The end of the police era? Well the police itself was hell.

Just kidding. Ha ha ha No, I'm not kidding. No, it was both.

It was like a Prata suit made out of barbed wire. It was incredible to have that effect on audiences. To Get on stage and do what we did was darned exciting. But it became more and more difficult for us to resolve our

Creative differences. And they come from an honest place. Um you know, in the early days songs would come into the band with just a some chords and we'd say, Oh cool, let's play that and let's mess around with it. And the writer of said song would be, Oh really? You like my song? You want to play it? Oh wow, guys, cool, can I make tea? After you've ha written a few hits. Uh that humility

uh turns into something else. It turns into competence. So the vision of where to take the band began to not be quite so symmetrical. And we uh you know, I saw the band like this, Stingo saw it like that. And Andy just thought, Great, they're fighting again. And he would he would just sit in the he'd pull up a deck chair and throw bombs, you know.

And if you are true creative musician, you y you don't show up to the studio at that time he w he wasn't none of us were showing up with a couple ideas and then the band would develop it. We would all show up. We all had recor home recording studios now, and we would show up with platinum demos, having thought through every aspect of the song, having th thought through not just what I'm gonna do, but what he's gonna do and what he's gonna do. And uh no no no no no, I've already written the guitar part, so play what I already wrote. Since I wrote the song, that's the guitar part that I wrote, so play that.

And that You know, we all felt that way. Um about because music's really important to us. It's really important that this song I have conceived this song and it should be expressed like that. What do you mean you've got another idea that Go away with so that caused conflict. It was never an ego clash.

sting would get the attention and his face on the covers. That's a good day. Because it you know, we, the band He's our guy. He's our face. And you know, I I love that. But the music part. Was it just got to be such a struggle of You know.

I wanna express something in this band, but I can't because the door is locked because he wrote the song and he's decided how it's gonna be. By the way The decisions that he had made Also including the drum part. were pretty good decisions, actually. The guy really does no music and he really there's

Im be as impeccable. Producing chops. That's where the conflict came from. Even as I understood That

You know, he comes turns around and he says, You know, Stuart, you know that that snare dumb here just turn it use the rim shot. Fuck Off. And it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. This is an important point. It doesn't matter that actually

He was right about that snare drum thing, that's actually kind of a cool idea, that fucking asshole. Yeah, yeah. But when you're young. All the all this wisdom, by the way, came decades later. You know. He he's Deepened.

Quiet. I am noisy and shallow. We clash. Um we because of our history get along really well. And with mutual admiration, you know, we really have a deep bond that is just not breakable.

After rehearsal we meet you know, we have dinner together, we laugh and we hang out and and it's it's fine. But man, the music thing, and this is the reason I'm going on, because it's so weird. It makes no sense that we created such important music that so many people kinda liked. And yet It came from Mm.

forcing together these elements that are disparate. So the Question I'd love to ask is When you have A bad day or an

A down day. How does that manifest itself? Because you're a passionate guy. Is it is it Anger is it Depression, anxiety, what is the Cocktail.

Well, anger is dope. Anger is dope. It is. It feels good. Oh, dope. Got it. Okay. Sorry. It feels good. Yeah.

Mm. invigorating than a nice Swelling of righteous anger. You know. Uh sometimes I wake up in the morning I'm in the shower when the blood the brain chemistry is just bad.

And I'm looking for someone to pick a fight with. Somebody on TV, a politician, my poor wife who's about to come into the room, you know? And uh it's brain chemistry. And just it you know, and I'll get into some fantasy. Of who somebody said this, and then I said that. And then they said this. And then I said that. The great part of these anger fantasies is that you win every argument. You just totally crush. And but then I I I have breakfast, I get down to work, I turn on my computer, and I'm still kind of

But then I get into work and I find that on the day and this isn't every morning, by the way, just some mornings you wake up, you know. And um I find that after a morning like that. That I have a very serene day. Go figure. prodded the monkey mind with a little barb and it's that it's gotten all of its aggression. The physical sensation of anger.

It's very pleasant. Yeah. Especially when there's nothing to be angry about. Especially when the anger. it derives from an imaginary conversation that never took place. That is a

rarefied, purified, distilled anger that just is a warm glow. Alright, so not everybody else has that anger and after breakfast they're like Aww.

D i did you have did you learn to turn it down or turn it off or was it just it ends out of the shower and you're like, it goes away. It goes away. Thank God. Two things that cause bad decisions are anger and sex. You know, how many people have made just stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid You know, that seemed like a really great idea when I was really mad or you know, was at the disco or whatever, you know, when I've been listening to that music and thrusting my pudenda, one thing leads to another. You know?

That music. Yeah, music causes bad decisions. And anger's the same, you know, it seemed like a really good idea to tell him what I thought. Yeah. It wasn't a good idea. Yeah. And best have those um you know, those moments in the shower.

And now here are the bios for all the guests. My guest today is Morgan Hausel. H O U S E L You can find him on Twitter at Morgan Housel. He is a partner at the Collaborative Fund and a former columnist at The Motley Fool in the Wall Street Journal. He serves on the board of directors at Markell Corporation. He is a two time winner of the Best in Business Award from the Society of American Business Editors and Writers. Winner of the New York Times Sydney Award and a two time finalist for the Gerald Loeb Award for Distinguished Business and Financial Journalism. His book, The Psychology of Money, has sold more than one million copies and has been translated into more than thirty. Languages.

My guest today is one of my favorite guests and a good friend. Matt Mollenweg. Matt is a co-founder of the open source publishing platform WordPress. Which now powers more than one third of all sites on the web. He is the founder and CEO of Automatic. M A T T. See what he did there? Automatic. The company behind WordPress.com, WooCommerce, Tumblr.

WPVIB Day One and Pocket Casts. Additionally, Matt runs Audrey Capital. Can you guess who that's named after? I give you three guesses. An investment and research company. He has been recognized for his leadership by Forbes. Bloomberg Business Week. Inc. Tech Crunch, Fortune.

Fast company. Wired, it keeps going. Vanity Fair and the University Philosophical Society. Matt is originally from Houston, Texas, where he attended the high school for the performing and visual arts and studied jazz saxophone. In his spare time, Matt is an avid photographer. I encourage you to check out. M A dot T T He currently splits his time between Houston and Jackson Hole. For my first interview with Matt, way back in 2015, where he had very long hair. Go to Tim.blog slash

Matt. There was some tequila. involved. As mentioned, you can find him online at MA.t. You can find him on Twitter at photomat, that tells you just how many photos he's taken, and on Instagram at Photo Matt.

My guest today is Susan Kane. That's C A I N. You can find her on Twitter at Susan Kane. Susan is the author of Quiet Journal, Quiet Power. The secret strength of introverts and quiet the power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking. We've spent eight years. On the New York Times bestseller list and has been translated into 40 languages. Susan's TED Talk has been viewed more than 40 million times and was named by Bill Gates as one of his all-time favorite talks. LinkedIn named her the top sixth influencer in the world, just behind Richard Branson and Melinda Gates. All good people to curate the next big idea book club. They donate all of their proceeds to children's literacy programs. For my first conversation with Susan on the podcast, you can go to Tim Dotblog forward slash Susan Kane, her newest book. Which she's been working on for some time and I know because we talked about it last time. Bittersweet.

Subtitle House Sorrow and Longing. Make us whole. And I am very excited to dig into this. We'll provide links to all the social in the show notes, but you can find everything Susan Kane at you guessed it, Susan Kane. That Nett.

My guest today. Is Mark Zuckerberg. Mark is the founder, chairman, and CEO of Meta, which he originally founded as Facebook in 2004. Mark is responsible for setting the overall direction. And product strategy.

for the company. In October of 2021, Facebook rebranded to Meta to reflect all of its products and services across its family of apps. And to focus on developing social experiences for the metaverse, a term you've no doubt heard in the last few weeks and months, moving beyond 2D screens toward immersive experiences like augmented and virtual reality. To help build the next evolution in social technology. He is also the co-founder and the co-CEO of the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative with his wife Priscilla. Which is leveraging technology to help solve some of the world's toughest challenges.

Including supporting the science and technology that will make it possible to cure Prevent. or manage all diseases by the end of the twenty first century. Mark studied computer science at Harvard University before moving to Palo Alto, California, beautiful place, in two thousand four. You can find him on Facebook, Facebook.com slash Zuck, and on Instagram, Instagram.com Slash Zuck.

Z U C K and Meta you can find of course at meta M E T A.com. Just a few more comment before we dive in, and that is related to questions and subjects. I wanted to cover new ground with Mark. I did not want to rehash Questions and topics that have been covered a lot in the media, whether by the New York Times or anyone else for that matter. And One of those topics is Ukraine. Because Meta has

spoken and published publicly about their ongoing efforts regarding Russia's invasion of Ukraine. So you can read about them also in the show notes, Tim.blog slash podcast. And Mark has commented on these things already. If you want to learn about what I am doing on that front, you can go to Tim Drain. But we had limited time in this conversation and I wanted to cover Subjects that would have some staying power, some relevance Moving forward six months, twelve months, maybe even several years when people are listening to this podcast in the future. So imagine yourself a founding member of one of the most successful rock bands of all time.

What happens when you break up? For many, that might be the end of the story, but for my guest tonight, he was just getting started, with no prior experience, he went on to score films for Francis Ford Coppola and Oliver Stone. composed for ballet and opera. And even take pilgrimages to Africa where he played drums with hungry lions. I'm not kidding. He's a founding member of the police, a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and for the last three decades, he's been one of Rolling Stone's top 10 drummers of all time.

Please welcome Musician Master and Madman. Stuart Copeland. Hey guys, this is Tim again, just one more thing before you take off, and that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out.

every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, Albums, perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests, and these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then I test them and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to Tim.blog slash Friday. Type that into your browser, Tim.blog slash. Friday, drop in your email and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening.

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