Rapid Response: Finding untapped value in multicultural consumers, w/Blavity CEO and AfroTech founder Morgan DeBaun

The very best founders I know are brilliant at building systems. They connect teams, they remove bottlenecks, and they eliminate single points of failure. And yet When it comes to their own wealth. Most are running a disconnected stack. A tax accountant here and a state attorney there, a wealth manager who doesn't talk to either one of them.

Creative planning was built to fix exactly that. One integrated team of tax professionals, state planners, investment specialists, all coordinated by a dedicated wealth manager who sees your full financial picture and keeps every piece working together. Proactive tax efficiency, state strategy, investments all under one roof. Creative planning where wealth works together. Learn more at creative planning dot com slash masters of scale.

Global hiring is such a headache when you're building fast, but companies like Eleven Labs are scaling effortlessly with deal. They quadrupled their workforce in twenty twenty five. Without hiring an HR team. Build your global team with deal. Visit deal.com slash MOS and start expanding your business today. That's D E L

dot com. Slash M O S. Hey, folks, Jeff Berman here. I am thrilled to share some of the new names who will be joining us at this year's Masters of Scale summit. This may be our biggest stage yet. Reed Hastings, Meredith Whitaker, Van Jones, Amjad Masad, and more.

Will be there with us October 20th through 22nd in San Francisco. If you're building something great, or you want to build something great, We want you there with us too. Join us at masters of scale dot com slash apply twenty six. That's mastersofscot com slash apply. twenty six.

I started my business at twenty four by every single statistic in America. I should not exist, right? I'm four eleven. I'm a woman. I'm black. I'm not technical. I ignored all the data. I just focused on progress every single day. In Silicon Valley, no one is making black consumers their target audience.

Despite the fact that we are super users of the internet, we drive all of pop culture, whether it's through athletes or music. So how is it that the most innovative place on earth is ignoring this audience? It's important that corporations who have black customers Make a dedicated investment in black-owned media. The stories that we cover on our platforms oftentimes can't be found anywhere else. That's Morgan DeBond, CEO of Blavity, a media platform for black millennials with over a hundred million users. Blavity operates brands from travel noir to Afrotech.

I'm Bob Safian, former editor of Fast Company, founder of the Flux Group, and host of Masters of Scale Rapid Response. I wanted to talk to Morgan because while media competitors like Vice and BuzzFeed have faced layoffs recently. Blavity is thriving. By closely targeting a community that others often undervalue, Morgan is unlocking value. Building trust among multicultural audiences can take years, Morgan explains, but she says the investment pays off in high loyalty and engagement.

Morgan also serves as an advisor to businesses like American Airlines on their diversity practices. Her personal experience working in Silicon Valley prompted her to launch Afrotech. A now booming community of black tech talent, which recently attracted twenty five thousand people together in Austin. Morgan provides valuable lessons on building a resilient and adaptable company. And on the still untapped opportunity, investing in black talent and black customers.

I'm Bob Safian. I'm here with Morgan DeBon, the CEO of digital media company Blavity, which reaches over А Hundred Milyen Readers a month through brands like AfroTech. Morgan, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me.

So Twenty twenty three is Dawning as A challenging moment for a lot of businesses, for most media businesses, some of which are facing layoffs. For many startup businesses with their plans and their prospects under pressure.

But contrary to those trends. You at Llavity seem to be doing just fine. And I'm curious. What's enabling that Difference.

We have a diversified business. That's one of the things that's been really helpful for us. our company is set up with a D E and I recruiting business through Afrotech. And then we have our media side of the business, which is a portfolio of brands and an ad network. That powers that behind the scenes.

Why I think we've defied the odds. You know, I didn't raise that much money in comparison to some of these other companies like Vice or Vox or Buzzfeed. And that discipline allowed us to scale. In a way that was profitable versus a huge vision that you're taking big leaps and then If you mess up, you have to lay off twenty percent of your employee base and then

The fact that we serve an audience that many people overlook and we super serve them allows us to really be the domain expert. I don't have many competitors in the black media space that target the young generation of blacksumers in this country. Yeah. So You grew up in Saint Louis. You went to work in Silicon Valley at Intuit.

And on the side you started this newsletter Plavity. What made you create it? I graduated from Washington University in twenty twelve. and moved out to the Bay Area to work it into it. And I loved working in Silicon Valley. I was completely enamored with this idea of building products at scale for millions of people. And so I learned the idea of designing for a specific customer and then designing for delight.

And As a product manager, I said Okay, I get the framework of Silicon Valley, but no one is making black consumers their target audience. No one is designing for delight. For black consumers, despite the fact that we are super users of the internet were driving the culture of social platforms like Vine or Periscope at the time.

And We drive all of pop culture, whether it's through athletes or music or whatever it may be. So how is it possible that the most innovative place on earth? Right. Ignoring this audience. Actually, I'm glad that they underestimated this audience because that leaves a blue ocean opportunity for someone like me at a very young age to say,

Great. This is gonna be my mission and my purpose in life. And so when you started it, did you know that like I'm doing this to create my own business at some point, or was it a side hustle, just a fun project? I didn't necessarily want to make a media company media.

was not a fantastic industry. And yet I did know that content and narratives and storytelling was a fast way to grow a brand. The first Blavity brand that I encountered was AfroTech, which is a So conference and community and website.

And it was a resource for me. A way to sort of better understand the state of black tech and entrepreneurs. You launched it in twenty sixteen, but I I doubt I was really your target audience, right? Like what was the goal for it and how and why did you

Attack that opportunity at that time. When I first started the business, I bootstrapped the company. The first time I went out to raise money, I got rejected by everyone. I made the assumption that I should raise from black VCs. I also had a very purist perspective on wanting All black.

Cap table, you know, all black. company. a black audience and That of course has evolved us since eight years ago, but that was my original intention. And they all said this is great, but Call us in six months.

I just kept getting the Call us later, but we'll give you advice. And I'm like, I don't need advice. I need a check. At the point I'd already had a million monthly unique visitors. So, you know, I had to lick my wound for a couple of months and Cry under the bed. And then I went back out.

And this time I went after social impact investors. investors who I felt like were going to care about this business existing because of the impact we could make. And that experience showed me that there was still a disconnect. within the black tech community because We should all be helping each other. And so Afrotech was created to create at least one moment of time in which all of us

can be in one place and use our collective power to advance more quickly and We started off in the Westfield Mall in downtown San Francisco with three hundred people. And now we are in Austin this last fall. With over twenty five thousand people, the city didn't know what to do with us. They've never seen that many black people in one place. So AfroTech was designed and is designed to be a community where you don't need permission from anyone else. Do whatever the heck you want to do, whether it's build a company or go work for a big tech company, that's fine.

Talked about how as much as you Liked certain things about Intuit. That sometimes you didn't always feel as comfortable as a black woman there. Because there weren't that many people who looked like you who were in those hallways.

When I was working there. Again, this was ten years ago. And I was a product manager and was on the more technical side. And there was maybe one or two other black women on the entire headquartered campus. that weren't EAs or assistants and

I think that as someone who was super ambitious and wanted to climb the career ladder and work at these big tech companies. I also had a vision of myself where I'm like Do I want my biggest accomplishment to be that I'm a group director and I'm the only black woman that's at the group director level? Like that can't be it. That's not my future. That's not my legacy. And I think that since then a lot of companies have made big strides into it's one of our biggest clients for Afrotech and there's tons of black women running around into it now, which I love and hope that I'm a part of inspiring that, but

At the time it was not pleasant and I felt like I had to think Think. Extra hard every day about What am I wearing? What does my hair look like? What is Joe gonna say when I walk in and my hair's curly all of a sudden? I had to spend ten to fifteen percent of my brain power thinking about all this other stuff instead of just doing my work.

As you Scaled. You've added new businesses, new brands, right? Sometimes through launching, sometimes through acquisitions. You bought Travel Noir and Shadow and Act, which covers the entertainment industry. Now is understand that you're in the process of launching a new home And lifestyle brand for multicultural millennial audiences.

How do you decide what to buy? versus what to build. So travel noir was a opportunity I said, look. Travel is a huge part of aspirational life for all millennials and

Yet there was no travel brand at scale for our demo, despite travel and leisure and conde nas and all those. So that was a no brainer. I would prefer to buy. Like hands down. Every single time. Because it's faster. Because it's easier. Because faster. Because The black consumer in our community values trust.

And trust over time. So if I have to build something new, I know it's gonna take me three to five years. to build trust with our demographic. If I can buy a company or a brand that's been around for five to seven years and has a great brand and a trusted loyal audience, then that's much easier for us. We have built brands.

like twenty one ninety our women's brand where it does fine. It's not the best in the marketplace. And it will take us another three to four years to get it there. So I would definitely prefer as a CEO to buy if possible.

The home decor brand that's launching when I looked at the market and how we're spending our money. home decor, hospitality, hosting friends and family that's actually some of the interests that are increasing dramatically within the black community. And there was no brand. that was saying multicultural audiences are core demographic our Demographic one is multicultural audiences versus a Add on.

And I say multi ethnic as well because black people aren't even monolithic, right? So you've got people who are first generation American because they're Nigerian American, so they don't view themselves as African American. Or you've got people who are Jamaican but married to somebody who's from Canada. Your core demographics sometimes you describe them as black. And sometimes you describe them.

As multicultural. And I'm wondering whether even that definition is something that you have adjusted over time. Yeah. Our core demographic is and will always be black. I use multicultural interchangeably because The Black doesn't always include people who view themselves as multicultural.

It's a weird balance. I mean, it's the same thing with like Megan Markle saying she's not necessarily black. I'm like, You're definitely black, right? But it's like if I said multicultural, she might say, Oh yeah, I'm multicultural. Mm. So it sort of opens the aperture to more people. That's right. Yeah. In your experience, like what do

People who are not part of the community misunderstand about the community you serve, about Black millennials, multicultural audiences. listeners to this show are people running their own businesses who may not necessarily be Engaging with that community the way they might. What are they missing?

Yeah, I think that there's a lot of fear of not wanting to mess up. I think that If you're intentional and you're honest, then It usually is gonna work out fine. But black folks can smell someone doing something for tokenism a mile away, and we will call you out on social media. We've tried to say look.

Partner with us. So you can do it the right way. But what people get wrong is just Not investing enough. And

my response to folks who are like Is it even worth the effort because it does require effort and intentionality? The answer is absolutely. Black consumers are also highly loyal.

And so Yes. High investment, but also High upset. Some

marketers designate a portion of their budget to black or multicultural audiences. You're shaking your heads because I know plenty of black media owners complain that it's like becomes a fight for these limited dollars. A couple of years ago there was this public scrap between some Black media companies in GM, right, claiming the automaker wasn't sending enough money to their properties. And we've had on the show Aurora James of the fifteen percent pledge. who works to get retailers to devote fifteen percent of their shelf space to black owned businesses.

Do you feel like these sort of thresholds should be applied to media and other areas. Or do you feel like if you have an audience of scale, the dollars will come because the return on investment is gonna be there for marketers? I go back and forth on it. Do I think that there should be dedicated dollars to black owned media?

Yes. because I don't think that left to their own devices, media agencies will then invest in black owned media because they haven't. In my ideal world people would just do what makes sense that gets the best return on investment for the dollars. And like it's on me as an executive, as a business and an entrepreneur to make sure that our audience

Delivers f to our clients. I agree with my peers, Byron Allen and Diddy. Not It's important that corporations who have black customers make a dedicated investment to investing in black owned media. And here's why.

The stories and the information that we cover on our platforms oftentimes can't be found anywhere else. And the only way for us to be able to continue to report out on the people who are making Progress within our community. is by financing. the media companies that actually

write these stories. But what happens when black news is not financed? then that we're allowing white publications to have a white lens on black issues and that perpetuates a narrative that oftentimes is harmful to black folks. We see spend go to companies that actually aren't black owned but have a black brand.

Mm. And not Is in my opinion worse. What is the flow of media dollars really look like? You know, I mentioned Aurora James and the 15%. Like is black media getting its share?

Oh, it's definitely not getting its share. Blavity as big as we are in our space. is nowhere near the size of vice. Or Vaux. And when you're a media agency, what is your job? Your job from the corporation that's hiring you is to maximize the return on every single dollar and every single impression. So the media agency, their only job when they are working with a brand, a media brand like ours, is to say

How can we get more for less? Can you give us this discount? Can you give us this free added value brand study? So it's the constant arbitrage and race to the bottom in the advertising industry. So Is it the Fa of the random media planner? Of course not. They didn't set up the media industry, right? Is it the fault of the CMO of a big CPG company that's trying to win against other CPG companies? Also, probably not. But this is the challenge

And for me I've never wanted to be dependent on Anyone. to make our company successful, which is why We're not just a media brand. Like that's why

Afrotec as its own division. drives tons of value and profit for the business. It's also why we built out Blavity three sixty, which is our ad network, so that we could help other black and multicultural publishers collectively we represent their ad inventory so that We can have more scale. And more power with the agencies. When you've built substantial wealth through your business, it's often tied up in a single equity position.

The upside is real, but so is the risk, and knowing when to act isn't always obvious. Creative planning works with business owners to build a strategy around concentrated equity. When to diversify, how to manage tax risk, and how to protect what you've spent years. Building. Creative planning where wealth works together.

Learn more at creative plating dot com slash masters of scale. Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show. Because every Friday we release a second rapid response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely from Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there.

Humans will never be more intelligent than AI. There's gonna be two types of companies. Those were great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future? That is human centered. I'm Rana El Kalyubi. On my podcast Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone.

Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future. And we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Before the break, we heard Morgan DeBon of Blavity talking about the advantages of serving a black audience. Now she shares her experience sitting on a DEI advisory council for American Airlines. And what businesses can do to best deliver inclusion and care for people of color.

Plus She sharons about managing a multicultural workforce and what she learned about the trajectory of the global marketplace from a recent visit to Ghana. So I alongside the media business you Advise organizations about multicultural communities and you help brands stay accountable on their DEI commitment. I know you're on a council

For American Airlines, for instance. How in that role do you get longstanding cultures to actually operate differently. American Airlines is one that I'm particularly proud of. Because every

twelve weeks we all get in a room virtually or in person With There C level executives, and we spend an entire day and a half together and we go through every single piece of data. Everything from the diversity of the

Pilots. And the flight attendants down to the Upgrade system for their luxury customers to reviewing advertising campaigns and the commercials that are about to come out. when I've seen be most successful is when the executives at the top, the very top, make a commitment of time. Because

when you're CEO of a company like that. All you have is is how much time you're able to spend on different issues and different groups of people. And I'm probably the most Chill person in that room. I mean we are like Pretty direct. There's no sugarcoating things. If we see something we don't like, we will say it in the meeting. And I respect corporations that are open to feedback, that have no ego about trying to do better for black consumers.

And if you're someone who Runs Or is working at an organization that aspires to be More multicultural, but

right now does not have the complexion they wanna have? Is there Advice that you would Offer them about how they should think about it, what they could do. This example of forming an advisory council with folks that are part of the community that you're trying to reach is really smart. And it comes back to taking action on the intention and then being really open and not defensive.

There's some companies they make a mistake. And They disappear. They retreat. instead of trying to actually fix the problem because in the long run

our country is going to continue to be more and more multicultural, right? And It's important for any executive leading a large company to consider the growth that you could have if you actually expand your user base or your audience base. I find that when I have private conversations with Executives about this. There are a lot of excuses offered about the pipeline or, you know, whatever

But If I'm hearing you right, some of that is just an excuse. Like if you put the resources toward it, it's just another business challenge to address. That's right. Yeah. Is there a big pipeline in comparison to other demographics in the tech industry. No. Does it exist and there are plenty qualified candidates? Yes. But they may not naturally apply to your company because your company may be very white and they don't want to work for an all white top to bottom company because then they have microaggressions and all these other things. So you have to work extra hard to say

We know we have things that we want to fix. But we would love for you to come here and work for us. It's not your job to fix our problems on the diversity side. We're gonna hire people whose job it is to fix those problems. But we're acknowledging that we're a work in progress. I think it's tough often for people in those situations'cause they

Carry the burden of being a role model without Necessarily wanting to carry that burden, right? When I talk to black employees who are you know, in three percent of the population at their company. the emotional labor and extra requests of

Can you mentor these people? Can you go to this recruiting fair? when their core job is not to be a public figure for that company and yet I also do tend to leave those conversations by saying Yes, but if not us, then who?

it's part of our responsibility to bring other people with us along the journey and not wait till we reach the C level to do so or the director level to do so. We should be doing this every single day to be part of our purpose in life. But that's not for everybody. Yeah. Well and I think sometimes organizations Don't always appreciate That challenge.

that they have those employees under they don't necessarily appreciate it, they don't necessarily reward it. You know, it just makes the burden that much harder. Yeah, they should acknowledge it. They should acknowledge it and ask, what else can I do to acknowledge it besides just saying thank you? So During Covid you moved from LA to Nashville. And you moved gravity from

office based to fulted. There's no office anymore. Right. That's a route that some businesses have been pulling back on lately. Bob Iger recently You know, requiring four days a week in the office at Disney.

What's your f philosophy about why distributed? Is it financial decision? Is it a cultural decision? What What drives that? We had a beautiful office in downtown LA and the decision was twofold. One, as a workplace where we have more than sixty percent of our leaderships are women, it was important to me to understand how being remote would be a value add It increased everyone's mental health. being able to have

time away from commuting. and have more time with their families. And also more generational wealth that could be accrued because we kept our salaries the same, despite the fact that people move to Cincinnati or Atlanta or Dallas. The other thing was that there was a lot of data that was coming out that a hybrid workforce

Dramatically impacts women and people of color because of the social networking that happens in a office space that you don't get to Take part in if you are at home. And so hybrid was also something that we um you know decided against. It's actually not a financial decision because we now spend a ton of money on travel.

So For example, we're doing a retreat for thirty five people, everyone in a division. And Everyone has a flight.

Everyone has a hotel room, you know, everyone has food expenses. Uber expensive, everything, right? And so it's definitely not cheaper to do it this way, but I do think that in the long run, we have less churn and I'm able to Recruit. more senior executives who want to live in random places with their family and don't necessarily want to move across the country for a job. And this extra travel this is

in a quest to sort of maintain and grow The culture, right? I mean,'cause that's the risk when you're distributed that people sort of feel disconnected more than they do when they get to interact in person. Right. So we did have to make a lot of intentional investment to maintain our company culture. So we created a people engagement team.

we have weekly rituals like weekly trivia and slack. We have a really tight onboarding program. Because of all of the things in the last four years that say fifty to sixty percent of our company w never was in the office. our culture has been able to maintain despite the fact that they didn't have that kind of epicenter ecosystem to stem off of. And

We're seeing Great results. People are still naturally creating friendships. They're co-working together. We have people go on vacation together and co work from Mexico or whatever. I think over time what we will likely do is invest in A space for people to drop in. for meetings for sales executives to be able to sit with Blabbity. Branding all around them.

I understand that you're working on a book focused on how to Work smarter. Is there a A key principle or two that you'd point to for scaling successfully I get the question a lot about like why do you think you're successful? You know, I started my business at twenty four by all normal standards of

Every single statistic in America I should not exist. Right, I'm four eleven. I'm a woman. I'm black. I'm not technical. My answer is that I ignored all the data. I didn't even look at it.

And I just focused on progress every single day. And I think that If more of us spent less time thinking about and absorbing all of the reasons why we shouldn't do something. If we just looked in ourselves and then took a step forward and then took another step forward.

And wasn't dependent on someone else saying yes, whether that's a VC, a professor, your parents Whoever's gonna be able to do it. I think more of us would live a more purposeful life and just be happier in our existence. So When you look at Blavity's business right now, what's the next

Challenge for you. We're very profitable. And we are growing at a fast rate despite the market. I have had to personally work on as a founder who's now a executive and CEO is How to get out of the

Fight. mode and more into the fast growth mode because during COVID, you know, you're kind of a wartime CEO during COVID. So we're on a road to a hundred million in revenue in the next, you know, two years. Wealth creation. in the black community and economic empowerment ultimately is the reason why we started the company. And making sure that we can get more folks re skilled so that they can get some of these jobs that are coming out. There's a huge opportunity

On the media side. Man, digital media is going through a thing. So in some ways, I'm kinda telling the team, just hold on. And just coast for a second. Let's not overinvest in video. Let's not try to pivot to TikTok. Like just stay focused on our core business and then let's see what happens in two years. There should be a travel noir show on

National Geographic, right? There should be a Afrotech business show on CNBC. And so thinking more about how we take our brands to a wider audience is definitely somewhere in our roadmap the next few years. You know, through this conversation I I keep reflecting on my my own experience in the media business. I always say that like The media business. It's great fun, but it's a terrible business. I mean it's just

Right. You know, you like you have to spend all the money ahead of time, right, to create the content, to build the audience, to be able to attract the advertisers who pay you way down the road. I mean, like everything about it. Why do we do this? It's so odd, right? It's so terrible and yet it carries so much power. And influence. And so it's a weird tension there. If we make a decision on travel noir to feature a city or a country for two weeks, we will drive tourism in that country.

That is a lot of power. The problem, I think, is just that media companies are the last ones to get paid. in that power structure, right? You go buy the flight, then you go by the hotel and do all these things. I didn't necessarily get paid for that. Some media companies that are doing it very well, like Red Ventures said, We're going to be a company for commerce. And we're going to take our money first. as a part of the value chain. And that is very inspiring to me. And that's something that will be

Pivoting at least three of our brands to be commerce first. That means I'm gonna leave money on the table from advertising agencies. temporarily, but I think over time it'll allow us to have a better position in the value chain. Because that is money that has better margins or that you control more? I have more proof that I'm driving the ROI.

If I'm on Travel Noir and I'm inspired by an article about Going to Ghana. And I then look up the flights. I

as travel noise should get paid because someone has taken an action as a result of being on our website. You wrote recently on Travel Noir about your own trip. To Ghana to Africal in December. You'd been to Okra before.

Years before and you reflected on all that had changed. Do you find yourself returning to any particular moments or experiences from that trip? Like are there Insights from that that help you as you look ahead. Absolutely.

I made a last minute decision to go to Ghana in December, which is What black folks call Dirty December because everybody goes and they party all night. And part of that was because at Afrotech, I would say like over forty percent of folks at Afrotech were not African American. They were people who were Nigerian, Ghanaian, Jamaican, Haitian, et cetera. And I said to myself, Okay. This is a shift.

And I said, Oh. I need to pay attention to this. I'm just gonna go to Africa. Go go see what's going on, you know? And I'd been in 16 years. it was a reminder of just the scale of a company like mine. There's no black company that's been able to be global.

Like if you think about it, right? Like we don't have a BBC, we don't have a CNN. And I think Blavity Inc. over time could become a global media brand. And and it sounds a little bit like too if forty percent of your attendees at AfroTech are from the diaspora That's an adjusted community even for you to talk to. Through your US based media, right? That's right. So for example, one of the guidance that our editors on African are doing is making sure that we are talking more about

the venture funding that's happening in Lagos in Nigeria and venture funding that's happening in London because there's a huge connection between folks who are in America who are Nigerian and people who still have cousins and friends and family and go to Lagos three, four times a year. It's always evolving. Glavity Inc. has so many different routes. We could build a podcasting network. We could try to buy a television network and raise a ton of money from private equity. The key is just staying focused on the fundamentals of business and making sure there's a business model to back us up along the way.

Well, Maureen, this has been great. Thank you so much for doing it. So fun. Thank you for having me. Masters of Scale Rapid Response is a wait what original. It's hosted by me, Bob Safe, Masters of Scales editor at large. Our executive producers are June Cohen, Darren Triff, and Jordan McLeod. Our chief content officer is Lori Hoffman.

Our producers are Adam Skuse, Catherine Clark Gray, Alex Morris, Tucker Legerski, and Chris Gautier. Our music director is Ryan Holliday. Original music and sound design by Eduardo Rivera. Audio editing by Keith J Nelson, Steven Davies, and Andrew Knoll. Mixing and Mastering by Aaron Bastonelli.

Special thanks to Emily McManus, Adam Haine. Colin Howard. Tim Kronit. Kelsey Capitana, Sammy Aputa. Anna Pazina Sara Tarter.

Leah Sarah Metis. Chineme Ozuquana. Alfonso Bravo Aria Finger and Saida Sapiev. Visit masters of scale.com slash rapid response to find the transcript for this episode, and please subscribe to our email newsletter.

Become a member of Masters of Scale to get access to a year's worth of courses and content on the Masters of Scale courses app. Find out more at masterstood. com slash membership.

What you see above is a preview of the first minutes. One unlock costs 3 credits and covers this episode forever: full segment and word-level timestamps on this page, plus .txt, .srt, .vtt and word-level JSON downloads, as many times as you like.