10 AI Business Ideas From The Queen of AI ft. Sarah Guo

I I think it is worth talking about the fact that there are ways to make a million bucks and then like ways to make a million bucks that could turn into a billion bucks, right? And I think we should talk about both. Uh are we hit do we hit record already? Yeah. That's the intro. Alright. Be what I want to I put my law in it like my day's all on the road less travel never. So what do you mean by that? You saying there's ways to make a million bucks? And then there's ways to make a million bucks that could turn into a billion bucks. You have my interest. Let's go. Okay. Okay. Let's go. So I I think maybe and I don't mean this any dismissive way. I think venture capitalists are very often accused of dismissing something as like a cash flow lifestyle business or whatever, right? Or which by the way, for anyone who is not in the VC world.

You go to a VC, you say, I've got this great company. I think I can make five million in profit in year eight. I and then after that, maybe we can grow this for another fifty years and one day it could be a thing, and they say, That's that's a really nice lifestyle business. It's like them saying That's cute. Right. That's cute. Yeah. I I remember my first time doing that. Of course The thing is is that anyone who actually is an entrepreneur, including anyone who's a V C, they know that you can oftentimes get richer and have a less stressful life if you have a quote lifestyle business.

Yeah. So I I'd say like there's many type of valid businesses, right? And then also a lot of things that have become very interesting start very small. So I I want to recognize that, but I think a reasonable analogy is If you can figure out internet distribution and then get You know, super powerful models getting increasingly powerful to just do something useful in a niche. Those two things together, that's like they do drop shipping. You know how like for

Maybe seven or eight years. I'm like too old to know what the exact timeline was, but there's a period of time where people are like, Oh, you know, I'm an internet kid. I'm gonna figure out some drop shipping thing and like make my first hundred thousand dollars. I think this is it. Yes. So so basically for people who don't don't really know, you could go on Alibaba or AliExpress. That was like the open AI in this case, right? So it was like this Thing exists that you didn't have to build. But it's magic. Watch this. You can push a button. You never had to make the product, you never had to warehouse the product, you never have to ship the product.

It will just magically appear at your customer's door. You know, somewhere between one and three weeks later. Um, all you have to do is the marketing bit. And kinda what you're saying is OpenAI and the other AI companies have built this magic. That basically will take

piece of text and turn it into a video or a song or whatever. And if you just do the marketing bit. you can actually almost like drop ship a product or a service to the to the customer without having to make it yourself. Is that the idea? That that is. Uh thanks for explaining it. And I l I think it's like easy with uh easier with a few examples. Right. Like copy editing is probably a prototypical one.

Right. You can Do not amazing, but like reasonable. Copy generation with these models today. And so there are series of companies where you just have some templates that make it more obvious to somebody. writing marketing copy, how to use these models. And then you have a website with decent SEO. And then like

You add some stripe integration and you're in business. What's an example? Well, I I think like copy AI and Jasper, these companies started this way. Right. Right. And and then I have several friends who have shipped like AI companionship apps. Just look at you know, paid apps in the app store by charting. And you know, some of those people are generating a million dollars of cash flow for themselves. It's not because they're deep AI people. When you say companion, you mean like uh a digital girlfriend? Or boyfriend.

Right. I think people think that is skewed toward girlfriend in a way that's not necessarily true. But if you and you know, you can have your own ethical points of view about like whether or not that's good for people, but it's a pretty basic human need. And guess what? People want all sorts of different things in terms of niche companionship and how you might distribute that. Aren't these quietly very huge? Like uh can we do some like uh ballpark, you know, give people a sense of s of the size and scale that these have gotten to. So there's There's replica. I think that's probably the most well known one. which is a digital boyfriend or girlfriend. They kinda try to say friend, but I think the use case is a little bit more in the uh in the in the relationship.

Side of things. And I don't I don't remember their exact numbers, but I don't think I would be crazy for saying they're doing like fift million a year in revenue. And I believe she had Bootstrapped it for a while, at least, or raised very little money to get there. Is that right? Uh tell me if I'm off base. I might be wrong on some of that. Yeah, Eugene has built a very cash efficient business. Okay, is that like uh code for something? Are you an investor in R I'm I'm not an investor. Dude You just said everything without saying a thing. It was basically like your friends with her, you know the number, and they're killing it.

Are are they killing it from your perspective? I think they are making a lot more revenue than most startups. Um I I don't think it's fair for me to give the number. It's not my number, right? Okay. What are the other ones that are interesting? So there's character AI that has like Some absurd amount of Traffic, but I've also heard some things about like I don't know if this is all legit traffic or what, but there's character AI. What are the other ones that are interesting or what do you what do you who's who's doing? Touch on character for a second because I I think like, you know, when you look at consumer companies, one of the things that I learned was that The behavior patterns like when something just really, really stands out from

All other products in their category or previous categories, that's when you pay attention. It's like the, you know, dumbest metric, but it is really Clear. when something has special consumer behavior around. And the thing that is really interesting to me about character or the companion apps that work really well is like people spend hours With them.

Right. Like you know, in terms of the number of products like How many products do you spend hours with every day? Not a lot. Like social media? Sean. That's like my product that I spent hours a day with. Yeah. Um You were at Greylock, I think when they invest in Discord. I uh I think the timing's there. And Discord was one of those things that was probably overlooked because it was like

You know. Mostly teenagers. We play video games that were using this thing and it'll kinda look like a chat room, but you're like, Oh, well, how is it gonna make money? It's not like Slack where you can charge the company. But the stat was People were spending like seven hours a day or something on Discord, something ridiculous like that. Just living in Discord. It was their social life. And so you're like, Well, there's there's definitely something there. And they were able to make a ton of money just even selling emojis at that point, because if you have that much engagement,

You can't fake that. Yes. By the way. I just went to character AI and There's a option to chat with Elon Musk. And the

The preloaded question, why did you buy Twitter? So I click it. So it starts a chat with Elon Musk. As a character. And then it the first response literally goes, You are wasting my time. I literally rule the world. Okay. So by the way, on According to similar web. Which is like

You multiply by Two or three, and then you divide by two or three, and that's the huge range. But according to similar web, it says that character AI has three hundred and ten million monthly uniques. Are you Kidding me? I mean that's more than the Wall Street Journal. It's more than like a

Bunch of version of the same. Is this company really that big? I think people want companions. This is what I'm saying that the beh the like engagement characteristics around this stuff is real. And so for anybody like starting a New business, you know, one person company shipping AI companion up to a niche, like generating a million dollars of cash flow for themselves. Do you know how these things grow? So

I mean three hundred million monthly visits is no joke. What Is what's the growth channel for something like this? Well, I think that's going to be like an advantage in the future. I do think one of the weird things about These AI capabilities is they are so novel and unique that they do drive word of mouth.

For example, with character, you can make new characters and people share them, right? So there's inbuilt virality. There, um, but like maybe I'll give you like two other examples of just like when I say the the capabilities are just really new. And they're powerful and people want to talk about them. Like I don't think you can engineer that, but it's just characteristic of these companies. Okay. So one example is I am an investor in a company called Hey Gen.

You can make a video avatar of yourself. You cannot tell the difference. And you know it's reaching that bar of quality is new as of this past year. And like people create content that is unbelievable and they share it. And so like Now Haitian is in tens of millions of revenue. Great. They've never spent a dollar on like paid marketing. Sam, have you seen this thing before, by the way? Heyre? This is one of those products that I'm seeing all over the place, but

It felt like it was just like people younger than me talking about it, so I felt embarrassed. Well, th this is not like like the character AI was like, you know, that's like teenagers kind of sharing stuff more like Wattpad or something. This is A corporate use case. So this is basically using Like I make a dig digital AI of me or of a or or just like a fake character altogether. And then it can be used in training videos, it can be used in intro videos with customers, things like that. So you could basically create a You don't have to actually

set up a camera, film a video, have it edited, and then post it in order to send a video to a prospect or send a video internally uh to an in a in a training system or educational product. And so that's what this is and that's why they It just as it says I thought raised sixty million in funding, but I think the the the chart I saw was pretty absurd. They you know they basically raced a twenty million in ARR. very, very fast.

Holy crap. Some of the usage actually also it yes, it's a business use case, but it's like all kinds of businesses, like creators, S Bs, like high end enterprise advertisers. And so like for you guys to be like, Okay, well, like actually I bet there's a lot more demand for Sean and Sam talking than the amount I'm sure you hang out on the pot a lot, but like Then even each of you. can contribute. And so if the

marginal cost of more time of Sam talking is free. Like you probably do more with it. Right. And I think that's just what people are discovering. Have you guys used this? Is it the landing page makes it look amazing. Like Is it amazing or is it still up and coming? No, it's like pretty good. This this cross this one crosses the line, I would say, of usable in real real life versus cool demo, which is the hard thing with AI. You get a lot of cool demos, then you go in and you're trying to use it for your use case. And you're like, How come the tweet had such a good output about mine is kinda whack every single time? Or like

Well, this is good, but it won't let me change the text on it, which is what I would need to use it in my my real thing. I would say this one is is Definitely production revenue. They wouldn't have, you know, tens of millions in revenue if they weren't actually usable by customers. Well and they just did a like a public campaign with McDonald's, right? Like an advertisement. But there's some good limits, right? Like you can't be like moving around. It's like a face on camera, at least that's what it used to be when I tried it like six months ago. Yeah, there's some new stuff. You should try like, you know, you net you can be walking around now, right? Okay. I stand corrected. All right, ever back. Uh

Can they just can we just upload our YouTube page or do we have to stand in front of it and film? Um, you have to stand in front of your web or phone camera for two minutes and film. And it's more of a safety thing than anything else because they don't want people being able to take your YouTube. And make you. If that makes sense. Like they want they want you saying specific words about like I Sam Parr say it's okay to make this avatar. And you said that you started the podcast by saying there's like a lot of you had a real you the the line you said was awesome, which is like there's a bunch of ways to make a million dollars that could eventually become a billion. Is this one of those companies where it started that way?

Uh, I think I mean, I think the market for this company is very deep because people Like they want a lot of video. And I think more, like if you just think about the domain of making video, you guys know much more about this than me, but like People want a lot of control, right? They want quality, they want specific expression and brand and motions, and they want like one person, two people, three people, like person walking around, product, whatever it is. And so

I think there's actually a lot like there's a lot we still cannot do with research and this the company wants to continually pull Like push the bounds of what you can do. And so I think this is a good example of like I think there's a billion dollars of video generation revenue for them or for others. But Like You know, you a you actually have to invest in the product pretty deeply, but it doesn't mean that your

Wedge can't be really powerful uh across a single use case. Sam, have you seen the ones that do this for D to C products. The AI for D to C product ads. So go to icon dot me. If you scroll down, you can watch the video. So see the video of the Asian dude who's holding like a Collagen peptides thing.

So that's a AI generated video. It's the product in his hand. That's not actually in his hand with a script that was written. He never recorded it. And now you have a UGC very authentic looking ad for an influencer. You go to the next one. Look, he's holding a different product. That's because he didn't reshoot it. They just put a different product in his hand and it looks super fucking real. Am I right? What

Isn't this wild? This is amazing. And so he's got another one with Ramen. And so what he's doing is interesting. What he's doing is he's Letting actual these are not AI generated people. This is a real person. This is like an Instagram guy who's got like whatever hundreds of thousands of followers. So he's letting popular Instagram people say, hmm, okay, I'll do it. I'll create my own my digital twin.

That will be able to do my brand Like by branded content. So a brand can come in request from a let's say an Instagrammer with a million followers. And say I want you to sponsor this video. Here's the script. Here's my product. And if I click yes, then it will AI generate that video. I never needed to like

Open up a package, grab a thing. You know, take take twenty minutes, set up my tripod, record an ad, send it to the brand, ask them if it's okay. Then they say yes, and then I get paid. Instead of this case, it's basically like I just approved the brand. It uses my digital twin to make the ad. If I'm cool with the ad. I get paid.

And that's it. And so that's what he's doing. Arcads is the same thing. If you go to Arcads, it's like pretty fucking wild. And if in their case, these are fake actors. So these women that you see on the thing that are like promoting stuff. These people do not exist. This is an AI generated woman who looks like a real person that is promoting some product.

And you script it and you can You know, get these made. I these are the Or or it might be like a real person, but they said like license to the company. You can do whatever you want with it. Yeah, exactly. Uh I think in this case they they might have started with a couple of those. Like I think they found one of the girls from this like on Fiverr or something. Um But the idea would be I I don't know too much about the under under the hood stuff of these. I've I just started playing with them, but The idea would be that

You know People are not gonna know what the hell's real and what's not. This these look like real people in their home giving a genuine endorsement of some product that they like. And it is very simple to create. I think, Sarah, this is the type of idea you're talking about where Two people can kinda take the existing models. You know, maybe customize them.

Uh here. But then It's just in a wedge. In this case, it's for e commerce companies. And they're gonna try to build a business here that will do it'll be these both these businesses very quick to get to Yeah, mid seven figures of revenue.

Uh without you know, much marketing spend or mu much of anything just'cause the product is such a wow product. And then, you know, from there, who knows if it can get, you know, really enormous or or not. Yeah, and I think a piece of it is just like for for me, like, okay, what's the difference between like the first million and the next Nine hundred ninety nine million.

It is whether or not the capability exists in the company to Make the product deeper and keep expanding scope for what you do for your customer. Right. And but there's a ton of these wedges. So He is staying with visual content. Uh you can use this category of models. They're open source. to be fine tuned for different use cases that are super commercial, right? So it could be models or creator videos for ecom, as you described. It could be renderings.

for like interior design or buildings. I don't know if you guys have ever looked at a floor plan. Like maybe I just have terrible visual spatial reasoning, but I can't look at a floor plan with like a couple of blocks and then like a fuzzy piece of fabric and be like, Yes, I see it. I'll put my life savings into this. And our friend Peter Lovels has a thing where you take a picture of your home and then it does interior design for you and shows you mock ups, which is pretty cool. Yeah. But but I'd say like those, you know, those renderings traditionally generated cost like thousands of dollars. Right. And now if you can give it to people for very little incremental costs, like that's an interesting wedge. Like there's a handful of Um AI headshot companies making revenue. If you guys have ever gotten like a a a professional headshot taken.

Yeah, dude. I so th this actually this is like a kind of actually an interesting version of the drop shipping idea. So these are this is I I bet you this would work. So there was an ad I saw on Facebook I think it was a Facebook ad and it basically was a guy And he had a head shot, I think, of somebody who I recognize, maybe it was a V C in Silicon Valley. It was basically like If you're in San Francisco I take awesome headshots for you. You you should have a great shot for your website, for your LinkedIn, whatever. It's good for business, good for your career.

And you click a site and it's a bunch of people in the tech industry and It was like three hundred or four hundred dollars, and I went to some warehouses type of place in some some little like photo shoot studio in San Francisco. Stood there awkwardly, got like headshots made. And Pay this guy, you know, three hundred and fifty bucks. And he was running Facebook ads profitably to do that. So he was able to put in and he was acquiring a customer for whatever 70 bucks.

And he's generating three hundred fifty bucks off them. And Now You could run that same funnel. Just without the San Francisco studio and without the guy taking the picture and without any of the cost, right? Like you just say, awesome, give me a couple of your photos, and then boom, here you go.

And I've seen a couple of these go viral of like viral headshot, viral yearbook ideas. I I haven't seen too many people just like running paid on them and making them work, but I'm pretty sure that You could create a paid funnel that would print cash for a period of time, and maybe not forever, but an arbitrage period of time. Yeah, but what's the what's an exact so I've seen the same ones where it's like you look like a uh eighties glam shot. model. I think the the professional one, people are willing to pay more, right? So if it's if it's actually gonna be for your

Yeah, like look at this, um, look at this company, aragon.ai. Oh, dude, look at this landing page. This is genius. They just have a sl side scrolling carousel and it's the before, and then there's a line, and then they just that same photo becomes the after. That is very well done. That's good. Uh. Sarah, how hard is something like this to make? So like there are a million of these wedges, right? And I think that means like it's an amazing time to, as you were saying, like be good at distribution. Understand like how to make a funnel and how to market something.

And like to be an idea person. Right. Fundamentally, like if you run into problems all the time and you like see the right basic capabilities, you're like, Oh, I can think like you guys are both like, Oh, I can think of like five other use cases for this. Right. And by the way, w you know the distribution thing, so this is a good example. The so I invested a little bit in Jasper. And Jasper was started by guys who were Internet marketers first, not AI researchers, not AI, you know, engineers, not

Not even frankly very good engineers, probably. They were just like Internet. Guys. Internet Internet business guys. And they were I think they were doing something before this that wasn't really working very well, but they had spent a lot of time building like internet marketing funnels. And so when they got access to probably

Chat GPT three or something like that. They they were kind of Back before or sorry, before chat GPT, just when it was GPT three. They got access to the API. And they built Jasper, which was a took that same capability, but now made it useful for marketers. So if you're a marketer, you need a blog post written or an email or you needed

um, you know, copy written for an ad, whatever it was. They just made a standalone tool that would do that. Under the hood it's you know The open AI model is doing eighty, ninety percent of the work. They maybe customized the last Last mile of it.

But they were so good at internet marketing that they started running Facebook ads on this thing. And It's the fastest company I've ever seen get to fifty million in ARR. They got to fifty million AR in in one year, which is To go from zero to fifty million in revenue in one year is Just absurd.

And the way the reason they were able to do that is because their background as internet marketers, as guys were like As soon as I have anything that works. I will just plow the maximum amount of cash into Facebook ads as I can and I will just keep optimizing the ads until I get this thing, you know, a dollar in equals a dollar fifty out or a dollar in g equals two dollars out. And that's why they were able to be so successful early on, because they had a different skill set than most of the Silicon Valley people. Most people in Silicon Valley don't ever run paid ads. Mm-hmm. That's just like a pretty crazy thing.

Mm. I think like if we just go to the difference then, like a challenge for any one of these companies that gets this wedge and like is rare to see zero to fifty in one year, that's pretty special. But even if you get like a product to hit in terms of initial adoption, then I think the like the the next nine hundred ninety nine million of revenue has to be like I think more traditional motes.

Um Uh because the problem is if it was I'm not saying the distribution piece was easy, but let's say you were just first with an idea. Uh, and like you hit it on Reddit because it's a novel capability. Uh, like I I think then you need to get to traditional like

Reasons companies get really big product velocity, depth of product, ability to serve the customer, social engagement, or something. Right. So like if you think about companions. Um Uh, it could be like what are the arguments for like why somebody gets to dominate that. That business. Um

There's a version of a companion business or any business with paid spend, and you know this really well, that is like just a treadmill, right? Like I make money, but I have to p keep putting money in. It's the opposite of compounding. Um And if I like stop working hard or other people compete with me, like the treadmill gets steeper or I fall off. And I I think one simple answer is On companions.

Did you guys ever play The Sims growing up? Of course. Sure. Like I it's very hard for me to not imagine the sims better if the characters are like smarter. And like richer in interaction and have like what looks like realistic video and voice. Um and and so like technically

Instead of it just being like I'm talking to a person, it could be You know, that person. has some combination of memory of me, other interactions, goals, and like the media experience of them is richer. And we haven't gone there yet, but I think like there's a version of that company that's somewhere between like a companion and a game world that will be very big. It's kind of an interesting exercise. Well, if I could just get to a million, then I've increased my likelihood and then maybe I can get that too. Ten. And then a hundred and then a billion. I actually firmly believe that if if something can scale to ten million.

There are It may take a while, but if it can get to ten, it can almost always get to a hundred. Like there's enough people in the world to to make that work. But it's actually an interesting exercise to think of all the things that you need to do in order to make those jumps. And now getting it to a billion, I've actually that's been uh that's been hard for me to figure out how to do that. But uh that's a fun exercise to think, well, if I can just get to a million, I bet you I can get to ten. And if I get to ten, I know for a fact I can get to a hundred.

Yeah. By the way, the the Sims lifetime sales, five billion dollars. So Uh, without AI, the Sims was able to get to five billion in sales. If you made it more engaging by by AI powering all those characters, that's gonna be even stickier. It's gonna be a big business, right? Um Hey Sarah, why

Dude. You're like Pretty in the know. Fuck this fun thing. Like why don't you just go do this? This sounds go make one. This sounds way more fun than investing in it.

Um, I get to I like really like doing the zero to one thing. Repeatedly. Right. And and so I think you just have to figure out what your motivated by I Uh I'm really motivated by working with people.

That are entrepreneurs that I like and respect and I think are super special. And I do not like working with people that um That I don't have as much enthusiasm about, right? That's like a very specific personality trait. And like law of large numbers, as soon as you manage very large teams. Not everybody is gonna be at the same level. Um, and so like doing investing

Like and making being able to contribute to other people being successful that are really special. And then the competitive nature of be right with skin in the game and then know what is happening. Like I I like all of that, but I No, never say never. Yeah. I think we we incubate companies where like

It's essentially like oh I see it, I see it, I see it. And then there's frustration that like the right you know, a a set of people you're really excited to back just hasn't come together around a certain idea. Sean, you are more technical than me, but you're still not technical. Uh I would say. But you're more than me. Uh Sam Park classic compliment. Thank you very much. You're not technic You're more technical than me, but you're not technical. But you're also not technical. You're almost good looking. You're hotter than me, but I'm a one year a three. Uh Did you uh when you're we I know you've been like studying this stuff

When you like This seems like a really fun weekend thing just to to play with. Are these actually would it be really hard for me to learn how to do this. Would it be hard to build one of these? Just like a really simple project'cause I I now she's Sarah's getting me all hyped on this shit. I'm like, this looks really fun to to mess around with.

Yeah, I mean it's like anything else. You got it you'd have to have a partner who to speed you up. Like you learning to to code to be able to to do these things is would be s the slow way of doing it versus The easy way is you find an engineer who's excited about this and doesn't have clarity of vision around it, maybe doesn't have a Don't want to run the business side of things and you say, Great, hey, let's let's build X together. I have a clear that X will work and I'll handle the marketing side. You got to make this product. Do

Do this. And um that's not so hard. That's that's pretty easy. This is exciting. Uh you get to see a lot of cool shit. Let's um let's do some of your like specific kind of theses. So you have this website, conviction.com.

Good website, by the way. How'd you get that domain? I'm an internet person, yeah. Okay, all right. Did you see her website? She has a website for her uh I think it's the incubator where you got to like code in order to get access to it. You don't really code, but like the menu is set up like that. It's a little it's yeah, it's a little C L I type. What's that URL? Um, I think it was called Commit. It was like our program for like

hackathons, college students, et cetera. Yeah. Commit.conviction.com, Sean. It's a pretty cool website, actually. Oh, you open it up as a terminal. Yeah. Oh god. Uh let me see. Let me try to do this. So run No, HTML. So if you type in help, it like gives you the menu. I don't know how to do this.

requests for startups or, you know, things that you think are gonna gonna be built in in uh AI. So let's run through some of these because I that's actually why I initially was like, we gotta have her on the pot to to kind of Um talk some of these out. So let's do one that you call your personal seller. Do you remember this? You might have written this a while back while back, but your personal seller. It might have been one like my partner Pranov Reddy's or something, but we can certainly talk about it. Yeah. Okay. I'll I'll give you the summary. So the summary is

Uh Your personal seller, I think the idea here is that There's a bunch of places online to sell stuff, Etsy and eBay and Amazon, a bunch of different places to sell things. Um But actually like doing that is a bunch of work, like creating the store, listings, changing prices, writing the copy, all of that.

And I think what you're saying is Somebody should be able to just like have a product and then the AI should be able to like Do the actual ecom management of the of the cell of of the of setting up the shop and running it. Is that what that means? Yeah, I think like um it's probably it it matches like a larger theme that I really think is exciting about AI, which is like

Because all of these skills and it could be um run a basic Like social marketing campaign. Right. Or like send email to your customers that are likely to be repeat customers or improve your website for indexing. Like there are a bunch of things that um are probably not related to let's say it's a Let's say it's a

Shopify drop shipping store for like a particular type of sock and you love socks as an entrepreneur. It's not like related to the merchandising decision or the design decision of like what is the sock I want to give the world. Right. And like that's kind of the essence of like why like sometimes people become entrepreneurs. And so can you can you take a bunch of these tasks that require skills in all these different domains? And just automate them uh at least at a basic level. Like I think you can now. Right. And I think like

That there are the platforms, um Shopify and and Square, et cetera. They're they like, you know, they now have native assistant products that help you use the platforms better. But I I think across the spectrum of how to be a good Internet entrepreneur. Like in the e commerce sense, I I think there's more opportunity there. Um

How do companies do that now? So let's just say you're a company with 10,000 SKUs. Um How do you get accurate descriptions for all of them? Well, usually if you have ten thousand skews, you have like it's a t they have like You don't have ten thousand unique

Uh totally variant. Yeah, but you could have much like color variance, size variance, things like that. So like I'll give you uh I'll I'll tell you in our case, right? So I have it you come Store. And we ha we spend Uh, let's see, probably like five or six grand a month on just Shopify pre plus or whatever, like the pre the enterprise Shopify thing. So that's just the Shopify cost.

On top of that, I would say we probably have another Um, three to five grand a month on Shopify apps. So you need an app for search, you need an app for uh bundles, you need an app for this, that. Yeah, there's like a ton of things that Shopify doesn't provide. So my all in just software cost is at least ten grand a month. Probably a little bit more. On top of the fees they take of every transaction. Then

I have An e commerce store manager. His job is just to like run the store. Like the we have new products coming up. Make sure those launches go well. Move things around. Oh, this is broken. There's a bug. Whatever. We then have a merchandiser. The merchandiser goes every day, looks at the collections, and says This thing is sold out. It shouldn't be at the top anymore. We don't have sizes for this, or we don't have uh colors for this. So let me move this other thing to the top. Or hey

The season just ended. These need to be rearranged. So there's a human being that does that. There's also apps that do that, but you kind of need the app plus the software today because the app's not quite good enough to do it by itself. We then have VAs that go in and they do all the product pages, the the descriptions, the templates, the tagging. So that are Inventory data is correct because we need to be able to analyze your inventory. To do that, you need to tag every product accurately. So there is like four or five people that are. Just making sure the store runs in addition to five apps that make the store run.

That all today is shouldn't be the lead like future state of things. That's just the current state of things. And and Sean, I think the future state is for entrepreneurs who cannot recruit, manage, pay the five people it takes to run your store. Like What do they do, as Sam said. Like I think it'll be easier in the future, right? Yeah. I I think this is also kind of like similar as an idea to all of the another area that we are and I'm like personally really interested in is

Um The voice automation market. I think like a lot of your listeners will have seen the GPT four O demo. Where it's like a voice that may or may not sound like Scar Joe. Talking like in real time. Well, we played with uh eleven laps. No, but that that's dubbing. She's talking about just being able to like Alexa. You just talk to it.

And um It just talks back and it'll sound like Scarlet Johansa just like chat GPT, but you don't have to type. Yeah, m m both of these things, either like it could be in your voice or like some spokesperson for a brand or a company, but like the ability to give reasoned, you know, knowledge based responses in a human voice, I think it's just really powerful. Right.

And uh I don't think people are thinking enough about the opportunities here where you mentioned eleven. There's like exactly one independent voice API business and tens of millions of revenue, and that's eleven. They're great. That's amazing. Um, I think there are other opportunities. So like there's a company called Cartesian that does like more real time voice, for example. You think eleven is, by the way, eleven labs, you think they're at tens of millions of r in revenue? Uh they are they're definitely at You know, a a large number that is in the tens of millions of revenue, hopefully. I'm not surprising surprising a market with that. But you know, a lot of developers will immediately gravitate like toward API business, but that is not how the rest like the world is full of niches and people running businesses that don't think about APIs and won't use them.

Right. And and so like just to Just like you know your personal seller. Um, I think there are gonna be a bunch of interesting voice services for everything from restaurants to H VAT companies to dental reception that are just like answer the phone. I think that's one of the ideas we had. And it could be informational, like we are open from

Eight A. M to six PM Um, or a lead generation business where I'm like, Well, like my plumbing broke and like are you available tomorrow at three PM? I'm but it's a much huge believer in this. Huge. Like I want Sean. This this simple idea. You know, like when the when the internet came out, it was like Um

Oh, it's gonna be so crazy. But like one of the obvious things was like, Hey, every restaurant just kinda needs their menu online. Like you should put your you should put your restaurant exists where it's located, and then put your menu up there, even as a PDF, that's still like a value add for you. It's like It became where every business needed a website. And now what I think it's gonna have is that every business needs an agent. And so what's the agent for most small businesses? So like I call pest control. 'Cause we always get a little bunch of like mice jumping in our pool for whatever reason.

And try calling pest control. Nobody ever picks up the damn phone. Because there's usually it's usually run by like it's like Mike's pest control and Mike's out in the field doing things all day. Controlling the pest actually doing work. And so he doesn't pick up the phone. And so then you leave a message and you're like You and then but you called ten of them because You're not sure if Mike's gonna get back to you. So then it becomes whoever gets back to you first. Mike loses a business because Mike doesn't pick up the phone. Mike also is not going to hire somebody to just sit there and wait for the three phone calls a day that he's going to get. It just wouldn't make sense.

But now you go and I built one of these in our like AI Uh like weekly tutoring session that I have, basically. I was like, I want to build one of these. So We have the same problem for our our offshore recruiting business. So we own a offshore recruiting business called Somewhere. It's like you can fire t you can find amazing talent. They're just somewhere out in the world. You just have to find them. So what somewhere does they find you elite talent. Now the big problem, if you go to somewhere.com, it's like

You say, Okay, I'm looking for a designer, or I need somebody who could do who get me leads for my marketing business or my real estate business, or I need somebody to do data entry, right? So you have all these jobs. Now the button on the site is basically like you want to start hiring? Fill out this form. So you fill out the form and then it's like awesome. We will get back to you soon. Or it's like schedule a call, here's the call tomorrow or two days from now.

And no matter how many sales agents we have A call tomorrow is not as good as Talk me right now about what I need, because right now is when I'm interested. Right now is when I'm on your website. Right now is when I'm not. t thinking about other variations of how I might solve this problem and you have an opportunity to sell me. And so Sam, I don't know if you've seen this, but like check out bland.ai. This is a this is an I'm the one I built on.

If the answer is have you seen us, assume it's no and my mind is being blown by all this stuff. But basically it lets you build a phone agent for yourself. So I went on here and I built a phone agent. So I built a guy who can answer the phone. So that when somebody goes to somewhere and they want to They want to hire somebody, it'll be like awesome, what are you hire for? Have you ever hired overseas? You're like, Yeah, I have.

It's like cool. Um Tell me what you're looking for in a couple, you know, a couple sentences. Oh, great. It sounds like what you're looking for is somebody who could be a developer for your Shopify store. Our our noble budget for that is Two thousand a month. Would that work for you? Or are you looking for something a little bit more, a little bit less? And then it answers it. It basically does the intake, the initial sales call for you. And it's like, No problem. We've hired

This month for eighty five other Shopify brands who are looking for Shopify developers. You're in good hands. Uh we do this all the time. We will uh I'm gonna start looking for candidates now. I'm gonna email you tomorrow with three candidates. How does that sound? And the person's like Great. I guess I can just like

Wait for that to happen or it'll or it'll pull from our existing database and be like Here's an example resume. This is the type of person we'd be looking for. Would this person fit your needs? Yes or no. So then the human salesperson ca will come into work and see a ticket that's like The AI agent did the initial sales call. And found the customers' requirements and kind of already warmed the sale up and told the customer what they needed to know. The things you repeat every time on the phone.

And now you could follow up with a more Bespoke answer for that person. That's the future that I see. I I wasn't able to fully build that. I did like a prototype of it, but That's what I think websites even like ours, which is an internet business should have.

Which means that every plumbing and pest control and restaurant They're gonna have their version of that. This is one hundred percent way better than having a call center, or or it might be or it will be when it w as long so long as it works as good. But this is absolutely the way to go. All right, let's do some more. So you have another one on here that's I think an easy one.

That's cool. Next gen auto complete. And I think the idea here is you Do a Chrome extension or a browser extension. That Not just like autocomplete helps you fill in

the w next word it thinks or how to spell a word. But what you have here is that it starts to learn your voice. So it can write your it can help you write your emails or your blog posts in your voice, which is kind of like the next level up from autocomplete, next level up from Grammarly. It doesn't just kind of correct or spell check your stuff. But it actually writes the way you write because it has watched the way you write. Is that the thesis here? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it can be, you know

Lots of different types of business communication, but especially like email. So I don't know if this is this is actually um my friend Mike Vernal's idea. I think he suffers from the same thing I do. That might be true for you, which is like I'm an incredibly kicky writer. And so I will use the models today for generation of basic content, or I'll ask my amazing EA to like draft emails for me and then I will go rewrite the whole thing.

because I don't like the tone, because it doesn't sound like me, or because it's not tight enough, or because I wanna use a certain phrase. And I think the next level of like value and impact is definitely gonna be um fine tuning to specific voice. And nobody wants to write like chat GPT. Like nobody wants to be the generic AI either. So what everybody wants is the thing in between. This shit's all wild to me. Is there anyone right now doing that that you like? Because I would like to use this today. Uh I mean superhuman has like really interesting AI features.

But I think the the unlock is gonna be the personalization. And what's your overarching investment thesis. So you have this thing called software three point oh, which by the way most Ving to do to be like, oh, software three point oh, web three point oh you you you've done it. You you have you have gone full VC. What is software three point oh? Yeah, okay. So the seed for that phrase, software three. Oh, it comes from actually.

An essay that Andre Carpathi wrote years ago about software two. And the base premise here is that like you had to write. A lot of software by hand. In a prior generation before machine learning. And then software two dot oh Andre, you know, worked at Tesla, was working on autopilot, was really about Data set labeling.

Right. You know, you you are Teaching a machine learning model by the data you choose to put into the pipeline. Um how to do new tasks. Software three dot oh is the idea that The next generation of software, a lot of it is about manipulating foundation models and they're called

Foundation models because they have a lot of capability out of the box. You don't need to train them from scratch. You just need to give them like guidance, reinforcement, the information specific to your business. And so an example would be like Sean was talking about. For his lead capture intake form voice but like he doesn't need to go train a model He doesn't need to go like collect data.

For that software application, like the voice agent is a software application. He just needs to like Make sure it's plugged into his scheduling system and His database of candidates and be able to retrieve the right information about the business.

And like re you know. respond consistently to customers in a certain tone, right? And so that's more about like manipulating a bunch of this base work that people Um, like lads have already done for you. And the premise here is like that last mile of getting a foundation model to be like something that serves all these use cases in the real world that, you know, maybe the research labs think of as niches, like

The world is composed of very large niches. And that's why I think it's a I think it's really big opportunity for entrepreneurs and for us. What are some of your like hot takes, uh, or maybe your contrarian takes? Anything that you think That might be counter to what the most people say, most people do, most people are betting on

Do you have anything that is against the grain? You know, I'm gonna give I'm gonna give a like a somewhat arrogant answer, which is I don't spend a lot of time trying to figure out what the entire market thinks. Actually, so I'm like, I don't know which of these things are contrarian. I can tell you where like my opinion Has changed dramatically. Like, let me give you one example. For many years, in including, you know, the tenure of my investing at Gray Log, I was one of several people who are like, Okay, we're gonna go understand healthcare and digital health. And I was like, Oh, healthcare sucks.

Right. It's a quarter of the economy. It's really important. How could you not want to work on this mission? But it is so slow and the incentives are so screwed up. That like trying to Enter that market with Technology Or the speed of entrepreneurship that, you know, Silicon Valley entrepreneurs are seeking is like not a good idea.

And we just did a a healthcare administration automation company. So I'm like, oops, like changed my mind, real hypocrite here. And and like one of the reasons being, I'm like, well, if you think about the Mind numbing work that happens. In healthcare administration. Like billing, authorization, coding, claims processing, like all like even not even mind numbing, but just like expensive and manual, like patient support.

It's actually really fertile for an AI company. And you know, we back something that's like growing really quickly in one of those domains. Right. And so I just say like I I guess I've changed my point of view on healthcare. I went to the pediatrician yesterday. my doctor is with my baby and I'm sitting there and she's got her iPad uh on like A table

And There's a video. Like there. And I'm like, who the fuck is that guy? And they're like, Oh, that's just like my scribe. I uh he's just listening in and he's and he's taking notes. But she was like, I used to stay up until three AM. taking notes on all of my patients. Oh wow. They just do it for me. And

Obviously the wheels are turning in my head, I'm like Yeah that That job is gonna be unnecessary in a few years. But it was amazing to have a medical scribe. I've never seen such a thing. And she's like, Oh, this has been around for a long time. I was like, I've never seen that. Yeah. I do think one framework for like your listeners like thinking about different ideas is like what parts

of work have been outsourced services already, right? Because like it used to be the doctor taking the notes. And they're like, wow, we pay this person a lot and like they should see more patients and think about their patients more. Like let us outsource that too. A cheaper tech. in our office, let us like outsource that tech. to India or the Philippines. And now there are a number of scribe businesses in um medicine that are growing really fast, like a bridge, Nabla Freed. Like it is happening. And so I think that will happen in a bunch of different areas where like basically if you can Create separation of that work already to outsource it.

then maybe you can outsource it to a machine as well. Yeah, Sam Wallman had a good thing. He was like, everybody worries about AI taking your job because that's that's not the right way to think about it. It's AI will take your tasks. Uh like You have to think about it not at a job level, but at a task level. There are certain tasks it can do really well. There's certain tasks it can't do really well. There's certain tasks today it can't do that in the future it can do. And so

Eventually a job becomes a bundle of tasks. Um, but but it for now, it's you can't think of the whole bundle because it can't replace the whole job, but it can replace specific tasks, which might be just the way it works in the long run, is that there's a huge slew of tasks that can be that can be done by AI. And then there's people that bundle those tasks together to make sure that they're getting done well or at the right time. I think that's like approximately right, but to be intellectually honest, like that there was a scribe In that outsource.

BPO that had that job. And so it's not taking the doctor's job. But it's taking the piece of the job that like the doctor's job that already got separated out the task that they did they didn't like. But that became a job of its own. Yeah, the task became a job, and the job goes back to being a task, basically, in this case. Yes, yeah, yeah. It's a good framework. Sarah, are you investing exclusively in AI related businesses? I am a technology investor. I'm not a machine learning researcher. I've been working on this stuff for a handful of years, and I really believe it. I think it is like the most important thing to happen in technology in a long time. But I'd say like I'm also here to just

You know, invest in great tech companies and so you're also here to get paid. I am also here to work on things that will work that are important. Right. Um and so like if a if an entrepreneur that I think super highly of or like that I've worked with before or whatever comes to me and says, like, I have a great idea. nothing to do with AI. I'm still definitely gonna be really interested in that. If you ask me like what are the ideas that we think about or are hunting it is all in AI. I do want to put one more thing out there, which is definitely not a Idea that just anyone can go after. It's kind of the opposite of the like easy wedge.

Idea. In terms of How can I put distribution around like one functionality for a niche on a on a model, like a AI um headshot application or something. But I do really want to hear from anyone who has a point in view on what happens to the like NVIDIA compute monopoly and overall what's changing in the data center. I don't know if this is a hot take to your former question, but like I think a lot of people intellect in technology really the intellectual like are like oh yes of course workloads are changing from not AI to AI.

But they don't actually think about like what that means in terms of scale and market cap. Like that means like chips, memory bandwidth, networking, energy, storage, optimized system design, like That was a lot of Technology company market cap before. And so like if that's true, there's gonna be a bunch of different like new specialized solutions and it's trillions of dollars of value at stake. And it's not just

like single direct attack on NVIDIA, that is like the opportunity. What what else would be in that category? If it's not just like, hey, our chip is better than NVIDIA's chip. What what else is what's the what's another shape of a company that could be in that that space? So I I guess an an example would be like, well, what are other bottlenecks like memory bandwidth, what like what if you design storage to be specific for AI data centers. What if you like you could do cooling systems for like there are if you just reimagine the entire data center around like big AI. inference, I think you end up with like totally different needs.

The uh the New York Times had this article the other day and I I don't remember the stat entirely, but it was something like The amount of AI capacity or in chips. Like currently created right now. We need to create like another like four trillion dollars.

in market cap in order to satisfy like the amount of s capacity that we have. And They were sort of writing it in a in a way of like I don't know if we're gonna be able to do that. But then when you think about it the other way around, where you where you think about well, in nineteen ninety eight

If you said like, you know, what how big is the internet going to be? Uh I'm sure it went far beyond virtually one hundred percent of the experts opinion as to how big it will get. And I remember reading this article the other day and I was like, That's just absolutely astounding that we're in one of these moments. Sequoia came out with a sort of blog post or I don't know, PDF or something like that about this. The I think they called it the six hundred billion dollar hole or something. It was basically saying, Well, we've we've invested this much or we're investing this much in CapEx.

So if you invest that much in CapEx, what do you need to get out? to make that, you know, return. Yeah, that's a V C saying that, which is which is Not just like some journalist who doesn't get it, who doesn't get tech. Uh, Sarah, what was your reaction to that and w what's your take on that?

I think it is a lot of capex. I think if you put it in context. of like how does it compare to other big capex spends in the past, let's say like the broadband build out. Like well, we wanted the internet, you know, like we spent about two trillion dollars on broadband to date. Like we're not there yet. Right, that was worth it. And so what I would say is yes, like it's a totally valid question.

We're spending a lot of money. What are we gonna get out of it? I think we're gonna get a lot of value. We had Darmesh on the uh Darmesh uh founded HubSpot. Darmesh is amazing. Yeah, he's really wise. Um and he's tends to be right more than he's wrong. And I think he said something great when I asked him. I'm like, Man, I'm I'm a little nervous about a lot of the stuff where the world is gonna go. And he's like, Well, I'm I'm fairly educated and I think Yeah.

It's not gonna be as good or bad as you think it's going to be. Do you uh agree with that sentiment? No, I think I think it's actually pretty bimodal. I think it'd be like bad or it and it's like it could be much, much better. So it's it's the opposite. It's either gonna be much worse or much better. Well what what's the bad like what's the bad situation look like where like like for example, I think the bad situation And I'm fairly uneducated, so take it with the greatest salt, the very bad situation is that there's just gonna be this massive gap between the haves and the haves not. And like if you have money now, that's gonna grow and you're gonna be awesome. The bad situation is AI kills us all, right? That's the uh the doom situation. That that's a bad situation. But then I there but

in route to that, there is just this massive separation of the haves and haves not you have not. You know what I'm saying? That kind of freaks me out. What's your what's your where do you see the bad situation going? Going towards. So I think it is not necessarily that correlated that Your Your resources or your capital today mean that you

most take advantage of the of the AI revolution. Right. I actually think people have a lot of agency in this. Right then go start these businesses, make a million dollars. Um That's such a small group of people. Why does it have to be? Because of human nature. How many people know about this shit? Go do your well, your parents are tech entrepreneurs, but go go ask Sean's mom and dad. Go ask my parents. Go ask my brother and sister. Like we're not Entrepreneurial, even if this widens the number of people who can be successfully entrepreneurial.

It's not gonna Like it's gonna go from point one percent or whatever one percent of the population to I don't know, not fifty, right? No it's not gonna go that far. Yeah, I don't know if it has to express in pure entrepreneurialism versus like you will get increased productivity.

For people in lots of different types of jobs. And it's not obvious to me that's like Just The people who are already most highly paid today. You're somebody who thinks a lot about AI. You spend your

Time in the AI ecosystem. A lot of very smart people. are actually worried about the doom scenario. Ever you know, from Elon Musk to We had Emmet Sheer on the podcast and Emmet's a smart, thoughtful guy and he's like, you know The P Doom, the probability of of actual Doom here is

It's pretty scary. It's not zero. And and here's here you know, uh here's where I think it is. What do you think about that? W what are the odds that AI Truly is a sort of like a critically dangerous thing. You know, I don't actually spend a lot of time thinking about this problem because the because it is like conjecture in the future of both the objectives of these models and capabilities of these models that are kinda like

Hand wavy. Right. Like if like I think when you talk to experts about Um, some of the suggested scenarios like here are two classic ones. Oh, you know, people are gonna use this to design a virus that kills us all. Um bioweapons.

Or Somebody is going to Make the objective for a foundation model that is super powerful to be like make the most money or generate the most paper clips, and it's going to take over all of the resources in the world and kill us all. There's no linear path from here to there. And and so when when people ask me about like the doom scenario, like I am much more concerned about

Abuses we actually do understand. So for example, like What if people don't understand what information is true or not? Or like people are gonna use this stuff for hacking and fraud and lots of like bad activities today. And like we should go understand that and react as quickly to that. And as a country, like

probably want to stay ahead on these capabilities technically. Well, have you heard any what are some wild what's a wild example of how people use this for hacking or for fraud? I mean like for for my company, we get emails. Me, it's not really me. And

Sometimes It will have or uh Like I'll have a link to something that sounds like it's in my voice. Yeah. I think that's the simplest example, which is Well, like what happens if you can create

really Authentic sounding media like You know, are you are your parents like You know, going to not pick up the phone if it's a spoofed phone number and it sounds like you and you say you need something, like that's a bad scenario. And so I think we need More tools.

to protect against that. And general education about it. So I I worry more about that. And then I'd say like I think of the probability of a bad scenario, I said was like It is possible. I can't see exactly how we get there. And if you ask me like what are the reasons in which

uh broad use of cheap intelligence are going to be great, I can give you so many reasons. Right. So Andre Karpafi just started a company. Around education. And uh Like the the the fields that have been super resistant.

to cost improvement. Basically health care, the government, and education. Like I I think this will actually move the needle. On some of the domains that matter a lot to all of us humans. Um, and I I think like when when people talk about like the doom scenario, it's really fun and scary to talk about the dystopian doom scenario.

But uh I think the opportunity cost of not exploring the ways in which like there, you know, you can have an economy of abundance. We need to talk about that. And that is really what I focus on. Same. Do you know who Andre Karpathi is? No, but I love his name. It's a lovely name.

Uh amazingly well respected research scientist and educator who's trying to create um like an experience Uh that is AI powered in education where like the most amazing expert in a domain is like a personal tutor taking you through the material pr interactively. And he's one of like the five Big.

Thought leader type guy. He ran Tesla's AI program. Uh in terms of self-driving cars, he was like one of the, let's say, five most known and respected guys about that. He then went to open AI, he then quit open AI. It says he's listed as a co founder of OpenAI. So it's so yeah, he was the man. He was like the early uh early mind behind it. And at at Tesla, he was basically the the guy leading their entire self driving unit. Um I think he's I forgot what his title was, but he's like, you know, chief AI guy. When I lived in San Francisco, it was a fun period. I lived there from

Two thousand twelve to basically two thousand twenty or twenty twenty two and Back then it was like the Air B and D's of the world. And Tesla or um Uber. And

We had Sidecar back then where it was like Holy crap, we're gonna get into a stranger's car. And this is so exciting. This is so new and And you'd go to hackathons and people were working on like meal delivery services. And that was like really cool. I went recently, or this was about a year ago.

And I was walking uh around the ferry building. And it's kid recognized me, he's like, Oh, Sam, I you know, I like the pod. Uh, I go, Hey, what's up, man? And he said, uh I'm doing a hackathon right now in the ferry building upstairs. Do you and your wife want to come up and like see what's going on? And I was like, Hell yeah, let's do it.

And so we go up there. And it was so invigorating. I was like, dude, we used to do this exact same thing, but it was around like the sharing economy and and all this type of stuff. And they were I was just talking to people about what they were building. And I remember thinking like This is like totally I guess it happens in San Francisco a bunch. I was like, this is like the Renaissance. Like there's something really, really cool going on and everyone was doing AI stuff.

And I just thought it's magical. Right when I moved there, it was like mobile was the thing. It was like, oh, X for mobile. Everything we gotta make m we gotta make it work on a iPhone and an Android and Then you would see like You know, some like false flags like front back came out. It's like, Oh shit, this is the next thing. This is the next big social app and then it would kinda die, but then

You know, Instagram, Snapchat, you know, they they they actually they stuck. And I remember the early days of Musicly that now become TikTok. And so mobile was like the big thing at the time. Then it became crypto and it became the crypto hub. Um but it started to lose a little bit of the steam for crypto because Crypto was a lot more international. Um

But now it looks like for AI, San Francisco at least is back as the uh the hub. Sarah, are you in it in San Francisco? Yeah, uh we're in the mission in San Francisco and like I I think we really believe in the sort of like community aspect of Um, not in the like maybe in the squishy sense of the word, too, but like if you're thinking about looking for ideas for companies and being inspired to like be committed to the grind and have the right ideas.

then the right thing to do is not do it like alone in your basement. What you have in San Francisco are people who are optimistic. And then like work oriented. They believe lots of things are possible. They're learning about what's going on at the frontier. And we actually do this grant program, embed, embed.conviction.com, to create that kind of community and a bunch of other stuff. But it is it is around this idea that you people want to have the experience that you described, Sam, which is like Well like Нас гнак.

But what are smart people? Trying. That is some version of the future in this area of AI. And like that will probably educate and inspire me. And some of it will be really big. Yeah, I think that like if you're twenty two Um

And you're young and single and you're into this shit, I would just say Two words I would say go west. Go west, young man. Like People g always talk about San Francisco, it's dangerous, sturdy, it's lawless. That's the appeal, baby. You can say you you made it in the war torn city of San Francisco. You don't want to be a billion who was coddled. You wanna be a billionaire who grew up on the mean streets of San Francisco.

You're not that mean. All right. I think we have to wrap up. Sarah, thanks for coming on. Where should people find you and uh where where where should they follow you? You can just google Saragua or conviction dot com. And I'm on I'm on Twitter. Um all right. That's it. That's the fun. Thanks, guys. I feel like I can rule the world, I know I can be what I want to

I'm putting my law in it like my day's off On the road less travel never looking back

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