Transcript

Drybar founder Alli Webb’s messy truths

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Join us at masters of scale dot com slash apply twenty six. That's mastersofscom slash apply. Twenty six. I don't really know where to start. But what I do know.

is how to run a salon. I've worked in salons a big part of my twenties. And new hair really well. Ali Web wanted to open her own salon called Dry Bar. One that would focus on a specific service. The blowout.

No haircuts, no hair dye. Just the perfect blow dry and styling. Her business savvy brother realized she was on to something. And he made her an offer. He said to me

I'll put up all the money. I'll own fifty percent and you'll own fifty percent, yours will be sweat equity. And I was like, What's sweat equity? Like I didn't know what that meant. And when he explained it to me, I was like, Wow, great. So we felt like this was a really beautiful like chocolate peanut butter moment of like him being able to handle the things that I didn't know how to do. Within just a few years of opening the first dry bar in Los Angeles, the business grew to include dozens of locations across the country. Ali also launched a successful hair care product line.

She transformed her side hustle. into a business of impressive scale. You gotta have incredible talent at every position. Huge push. There are fires burning when you're going out. Can you believe it? Such an idiot. And then you go back to this is totally gonna be amazing. There are so many easy way. So I have no idea what to do. Sorry, we made a mistake. But you have to time it right. Oops. Working out of a three-bedroom apartment. We haven't made it just how you do it.

This is masters of scale. I'm Jeff Berman. Your host. Ali Web's story of scaling dry bar from scratch is packed with important lessons for anyone starting a business.

We'll hear about how she took Dry Bar to unexpected heights. Why she decided to sell and what she's cooking up next. First. I wanted to hear how it all started. Allie, welcome to Masters of Scale. Thanks for having me. Great to have you for our audience who may not yet be familiar with it.

Where did the dry bar idea come from? I had spent my twenties working in hair salons and doing blowouts. So I just had like Malcolm Gladwell's ten thousand hours in spades. By the time I decided to start what was a mobile blow uh business, which eventually led to dry bar my initial pitch. was on like a mommy group on Yahoo that was like, Hey, I'm a stay at home mom, long time hairstylist.

I'm thinking about starting a mobile blowout business where I come over and blow out your hair like while your baby is sleeping,'cause that was my network was mom's at the time. That's all I knew in LA because I'd just moved to LA and Sure enough, I got Tons of clients and I was pretty good at doing blowouts and so you know, w the word of mouth grew very quickly. And

That's kind of when the light bulb went off for me of like maybe instead of Me going to them, they come to me and And so I went to my brother, Michael Landau, who's my been my best friend my whole life and he also happens to be bald and he was like, What? Like what do you wanna do? I'm like, Well, I I'm having so much success charging forty dollars in this mobile

business. And I can't keep up with the demand, so I feel like maybe I should start. A brick and mortar. Instead of, you know, them coming me going to them. And, you know, again, he was a little like Perplexed, like why don't why can't women blow out their own hair? And his wife at the time had naturally straight hair.

And I was like, You did grow up with me, but He you know, was like really he kinda sa saw the success that my mobile business was having and was like willing to kinda help me get this off the ground financially, and he has such a s brilliant business mind. And so We were like Let's give it a shot and it might.

then husband Cameron was the advertising creative guy and he You know, it was gonna help us create the brand and it was like Three of us joining forces. What is the blowout experience? So a blowout is basically at Dry Bar anyways, it's you know, you come in, you have a consultation, in dry bar you pick from a menu of hairstyles and then your stylist washes your hair.

And then basically blows out your hair into the style that you want. And that's all it is. So no cuts, no color, just blowouts. And you know, you walk out the door with Amazing confidence, which is the other probably important thing to mention is that while we are initially, you know, just selling blowouts, we very quickly learned that we weren't just selling blowouts, we were selling the happiness and confidence that women get from having great hair. Well I have to imagine also, I mean

The color scheme, the music. I mean, when you walk into a dry bar, it's uplifting even before. Yeah, I mean well that was the thing. It was like for me, it was like how do I create this thing that I really want? I was creating dry bar from the positioning of a stylist, because I was a stylist, and also the consumer, and what did I want on both sides of that. And were you at all concerned that this wasn't a full service salon that this didn't exist before, right? Like come in quote unquote just for a blowout. I wasn't concerned, but everybody else was. You know, I mean that was the common question was like how do you make this Business is concept work. The name of the game was volume.

Ironically, there's so many puns in this world of mine. And at the time I thought if we could do thirty to forty blowouts a day, that that would get us to a good point, not even really making that much money, that was more like breaking even. But it would work. And Yeah, I didn't have big lofty dreams at that point. I was just like I wanted to open one shop.

for myself, like something for me to go and do that I loved and You know, and I I loved the environment of the salons that I'd worked in and so I was really excited about it and not thinking I was gonna turn it into this massive multi million dollar Empire blowout empire. What I thought was gonna be thirty to forty blowouts a day turned out to be like between sixty and eighty blowouts a day, which we were completely unprepared for, by the way. Like we didn't have enough stylists, like it was a total disaster in the beginning, even though it was so popular. It was like we were completely unprepared for what was coming. So how do you go from one store in Brentwood to literally the a few years you're at like forty locations around the country. Like what happened that you were able to accelerate so quickly? Well, you know, we we realized very quickly, very quickly, like within the first few days, like we had captured lightning in a bottle. It was like holy sh Like women were coming in in quite literally droves. I mean, we were turning people away left and right. The first couple of stores were really clunky, like getting those open and figuring out how to get people

into those stores. And then we eventually like started hiring people who were smarter than us who had like knew how to do this. And we eventually took angel investment from some friends and family and customers. And then we realized that we needed to really if we were gonna really expand this, 'Cause I think we got to like ten or eleven stores like bootstrapping it ourselves and then we raised About twenty six million was our first big tranche from Castanea with the intention of, you know, opening a lot more stores and starting a product line. And that was about I don't know, two ish years in. So I Ali, I imagine when you opened your first brick and mortar dry bar location, people came in and saying, Great, I need to cut color the whole shebang, and you're like, No, no, no, no, we just do the the blowout. So what was that customer education experience like? Yeah, I mean

There was definitely a subset of women who knew what a blowout was, were getting blowouts and figuring it out, which me included. But then there was, you know, that was a big thing early on, like educating people and women on like what this was. And a lot of women were like What's a blowout? I mean a lot of people were like, What's a blowout and I would always explain, like, you know when you go and get your hair cut and colored or cut or colored and they blow out your hair after and your hair kinda l never looks better than when it looks and they're like, Yeah, I love how my hair looks after I get a haircut. Like, Yeah, because somebody professionally blew it out. So we're taking

with dry bar, that one piece of the puzzle of going to a salon, the whole experience, and we're just taking the blowout, we're blow drying your hair, washing the hair, that was also a big thing people would ask, like, do you wash the hair too? I'm like, Yeah, yeah, we wash it so it's clean and you can make it last for as long as humanly possible, which women loved. But yeah, I mean it was an interesting time because even as we were opening more and more locations there There were a lot of questions, especially investors, but that's a whole other story. Like men in suits were like, What? You know, so many like sexual jokes and whatever. I'm like, Yeah, yeah, you know. And now

blowouts are like such a common thing and you know, there's so many other places that are doing'em and we made this an affordable luxury, you know, for women everywhere. And joke on the investors who are making those jokes. Yes, yes. There are two different threads I'd love to pull on. One is This is a point at which a lot of companies would say, We're going franchise, right? This is the fastest way for us to scale. So d talk about the what what what was that conversation? Well, it was a lot of back and forth. I mean Michael wanted to franchise like right away. And I was very anti franchise because of You know, this was my baby. Like it felt like a third child to me, you know, and I was like, I don't want to put this in other people's hands, you know, and that was really

How I felt about it, but Michael was like, Oh, we just gotta open more stores. And he was right. We did need to open more stores and we w you know, as you know, like we had so much competition, we had tons of people starting to knock us off. So we felt very strongly that we needed to open more. And you know, the thing about franchising is a double edged sword because you are, you know, it's it's a great way to expand quickly, but it's also like These are entrepreneurs themselves, and they and they want to do things the way they want to do them. And I was like, you know, one of the most profound things, I think it was my brother who said it was like There's a lot of ways to do things right, but there's one way that we do things and I want all the franchisees to do that. And you only have so much control over them. And so I wouldn't recommend it the way we did it because what we did was like we were basically now running two different organizations. One was like franchise and one was company owned. And so the needs of those two stores were quite different. And managing the franchisees and those owners, our partners was very

Just time consuming. I mean it sounds time consuming also sounds like maybe the optimal approach because you're able to keep control of the ones that you're operating. You're able to evolve the brand and the experience. Yeah. But you're also able to scale more places. But we're so we had to hire a lot more people. We were we were, you know, it's a completely different operation, which which is interesting now. Fast forward to You know, years later we started a new concept called Squeeze, which is our massage concept, which is on fire, and we've sold over a hundred locations and it will start popping up all over the country. But we decided to do that. completely franchise because we got the opportunity to see what it's like to run a franchise organization and what it's like to run a company owned organization. And you know

At the end of the day it's it's it's harder to run a company owned fr uh operation because you have, you know, of of the 150, there's 180 actually now, but when we sold it was 150 and probably seventy or so were company owned and the rest were franchise. But you know, you have a manager, you have 70 managers and and assistant managers and regional managers and com and stylists, and you know, it was so much staff. We had, you know, five thousand employees, and it was crazy. It was so much to manage that the systems and the people you have to put in place to manage that kind of Overhead of of people is a lot. And it is easier, we found, when there was a franchisee because you have an owner operator that's managing their own stores and they have a lot of skin in the game, you know? So it's an arguably easier way to do it, which is why we did

Did it that way of squeeze. And so but looking back on the driver experience, if you had it to do over again going back in time, but knowing what you know now, would you have gone full franchise from the beginning? Or do you think it was essential to be in control to really develop that experience in the brand? I hate that question. It's okay. Because I don't think I would I mean I don't think I would do it I don't think I would have done it differently. But that said we use the learning and applied it to squeeze. So I'm glad that we had the learning and and I liked that we owned the stores, but it was still really challenging. But I don't Yeah, I don't think I would change it.

Even though I wouldn't recommend it. I know that's like a weird answer. I mean uh we also we we learn from our mistakes, right? Yeah, had I had we not gone through that, I never would have learned all of that. Yeah. So before we get to squeeze, the other thread on is the expansion to products. Yes. So w was that part of the original vision? What did that come in later? Where did that originate and how'cause that's a whole other business you've got to say. Yeah, and really, I mean I don't know if you know this, but like we sold the product division for two hundred and fifty five million. We didn't sell the whole enchilada, which is an important distinction because the product was like a little bit of an afterthought for everybody else, not for me. You know, I knew very early on I wanted to do product because What I was finding because I was in the store every day and I was touching hair and I was doing blowouts, the assortment we had, which was a bunch of my favorite product lines, weren't all working well together. And so I felt like we really needed a product line that really

You know, supported A perfect blowout, like what we were doing, making the blowout last as long as humanly possible. So every product was developed through the lens of like crafted for the perfect blowout. That's really what it was for. So You know, when we raise the money with Castanea, I think we earmarked like a million dollars, which is like more or less what you need to start a product of that scale and size. Right. And so you're not just slapping a dry bar label on some existing product. You're actually doing product development, right? You know, it's not really anybody who works in this industry knows that like there's a couple of labs that really make all the stuff. So You don't have a ton of room for creativity, but what you do have is like

you know, you use benchmarks and it's like, Oh, I love this product by X Company, but I don't like the way it smells. Like there's it's a little too strong. It's a little too heavy. So you can go in and tweak and say, I want a pr or you're coming at it and saying to a lap, I want a product that does this, this, this, and this. And maybe we'll put something together for you and and then you tweak it to get it to where you want it. So for me it was like I knew products couldn't be too heavy because I because women always wanted their blood to last as long as possible. I obviously knew creating a really great dry shampoo was paramount to what we were doing. The very first product we ever came out with was a shower cap that was like a a larger than normal shower cap and it was like terrycloth lined and nobody else was doing that and You know, so everything I developed was again thinking about the customer and what she wanted after she had a blowout. But it was like everybody was much more focused on the stores than the growth of the stores, which was right. You know, it was like we were growing at leaps and bounds and there was so much excitement about the stores and everybody wanted a dry bar. But you know, the product was really personally important to me and and the team supported me on that, but Nobody knew.

the longevity and the legs that it would have, which it did. It's also more marketing. I mean, you've got like a virtuous cycle of marketing. Yeah. I mean you so you know, we had the stores, obviously, but then we also, you know, went to Sephora and said, Hey, we wanna do this. And really it was like we wanna give the products that we're using in dry bar, including the blow dryers and the curling irons and all the stuff. If you don't have a dry bar near you, here's what our stylists are using. So you can get this great look at home. I launched my first book, which was like a total hair tutorial to do it. I went on QVC and selling the products and it was really fun and great. It was such a great like natural extension. And and mind you, our investors and even clients are like, Oh, you could sell so many other things here. You could sell makeup, you could offer lashes, you could do all this stuff. I'm like, no, no. You know, I felt very strongly of like we do this one thing and we're the best at it and we're not gonna like create this environment where women come in and they feel like they're being like hard sold to about buying this or buying that. Like I just wanted to do the one thing we were doing and the one thing we were trying to do really well. One night at a business dinner, Ali got some frank advice about the inevitable future of her budding empire.

Her business was part salons, part product line. And exec from a major player in her industry. Told her this. You're never gonna be able to sell. It's

whole thing to one person. L'Oreal or S Lauder, they're not inheriting five thousand employees. And I was like, oh man, you're right. Because You know A Unilever, L'Oreal, like Helen of Troy who did end up buying it's like those are huge product companies. They don't They don't want a service company. It's a very different buyer that wants a service business. And so, you know, all the like smart investment bankers that were around us were like, We're you we're gonna have to break these two companies off. But yeah, that's what we ultimately did. So in 20.

nineteen we we really started to do a formal process, realizing we were gonna be selling this to two different people and had, you know, tons of interest, as you would imagine. And you know, ultimately It's a long story, but ultimately sold it to Helen of Troy. And the plan was we were gonna then sell off the market. So if you wanted to buy the LA market, you could buy twenty five stores and w whatever multiple, and that would be that. And then COVID hits and the stores go to zero. But yeah, I mean the store we basically kinda gave them away because we had we we were they weren't making any money. We were still gonna pay rent and it was a total sh show the the stores. But luckily we sold the product division like

Truly what felt like moments. It was actually weeks before the whole world shut down and everything collapsed. But We got that sale done under the wire, thank God. Still ahead. Алі экспай, африкерней самон умек с суперполіш. She decided to get messy.

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In two thousand twenty three, Alley published a memoir called The Messy Truth. It's an intensely honest look at all the things that were falling apart in her life behind the scenes. While her business was publicly booming. One of the Extraordinarily

compelling parts of following your journey over these last several years is how open you been about your own challenges certainly the things, the curve balls that have come your way and how you've handled them. Many of them yeah. And I mean I can deeply relate. Thank you for being open about it. And why be open about it? Going back to

My first divorce From my co founder. Which, you know. I myself wasn't super Public

persona at that point. But for the sake of of the business and our employees, you know, I I remember like the first we posted like Instagram, you know, where you get all your information that We were divorcing But that

It was really more of our employees'cause like I said, we had thousands at that point. And We n we kind of felt like we needed to make a statement, but it's not like we're making a statement in like you know, the New York Post and like we posted a picture of we actually were on a family vacation in Jamaica even though we weren't together anymore. And this really sweat of us in the ocean together and said, you know, we've decided to end our marriage, but we are still friends and we're still co parenting and whatever. And and it really resonated with people. And I think that was one of the first moments that I was like, Oh, it's interesting. to put something really personal like that out there.

and and to feel a lot of love and support from it. And so fast forward to the next like you know six months to a year when my life really fell apart. Um Because my son

who's now 19 and now doing great, w you know, kind of spiraled. We all kind of spiraled after the divorce. I mean sh you know what that's like. And I was struggling, he was struggling, my ex was struggling. There's a lot of struggle. We were all And But Grant, my older son, you know, ended up going into rehab because he he was really struggling with drugs, which just took us all down.

And I just felt like I couldn't be I didn't I didn't want to be inauthentic with what I was publicly doing because mind you, while that was happening Drybar was like on fire. Like we were expanding. We were in all these things. I was on the cover of magazines. Like it was cr it was, you know, I was asked to do Shark Tank as I was a guest shark. I mean it was just like all this cool stuff was happening alongside our lives falling apart. And it was like, how do I manage this? Like I didn't want to be inauthentic.

Publicly. just as I wasn't being inauthentic privately. And so I felt like I'm gonna talk about this stuff because I I felt like it was showing the real side of anybody's life, right? Even like you can be having this tremendous success over here, but over here you're really struggling. And as somebody who was starting to be somewhat public in the success that I had had, I wanted to show like the polarity of our lives, you know? And and the more I did it, the more support I got, the more, you know, messages I got from lots of other women who were going through it and were like you know, admired me. I was an inspiration to them.

And and for them to say you know, messages like I feel so much better knowing that I'm not alone, that you, somebody who looks like they have it all together and has all this success, is also experiencing this. And so I think that that kind of fueled the fire for me to be like, Oh, this this is actually really helping people. me telling my truth and my what's happening for me. And so I think I felt more compelled to do it. More than

There's so much in your story and there's so much in the messy truth, the book. One of my He Aha moments in Covid was work life balance is bullshit. I mean you talk about balance is bullshit. Right. Second chapter of my book. And and for me, it it's about leading an integrated life. I want to do work that's meaningful. I want to work with people who I like and respect and care about and and move seamlessly in my day among the various parts of my life. Yeah. So Having gone through this experience, how are you restructuring how you spend time and how you approach your day based on what you've learned?

We start the business in twenty twenty and We're in the middle of twenty twenty four. And I I just finally, I would say in the last like six months, got my footing back into like What am I doing now? What do I want my life to look like? And yeah, now I'm really intentional, also very integrated. And I think just Probably because of Covid because so many of our daily lives have changed. Like I work from home. I have an office at my house. I'm I'm out and about a lot, but you know, I'm working on a new

Secret project that I'll tell you about later. absolutely giddy over and just feel this like renewed sense of purpose that I'm excited about. But I will tell you that I I'm pretty intentional with my time and how I spend it and what I take on in that this new endeavor where I'm doing it with my brother again.

No ex husbands involved this time. But what I will spend my time on, what I won't, when my brother takes on, what I take on, and like, you know, when I will take meetings and things I I'm much better about saying no now to things that like just suck my energy that I don't enjoy doing. I feel like I've kind of earned that. To some degree, but I I even feel weird saying that'cause I think we should all give ourselves the permission To have autonomy over what we do in a day to like what feels great. And if that means you're only working till three o'clock because you want to pick up your s kids from school.

Do that. Like set up your life in a way. And even whether you're an entrepreneur or you're not an entrepreneur, like even the people who work for me and with me, like I I'm very like, go do your thing. If you want to do yoga in the middle of the afternoon, I don't care. Just let's just m get all our sh done during the day. whether you do it at five in the morning or f or six at night, like whatever works for you, you know? And my like right hand girl who does so much for me, you know, I I really respect her. She's given me like boundaries of like how much when I like she really wants her weekend to be uninterrupted. And you know, and I remember when she first told me that I was like Does that mean I can't text you on the weekends? You know? And we have we we figured out a system and we have like we use an app, uh it's called Monday that we keep our stuff on. So if I think of things on the weekend, I just put'em in there because I'm like, Well, I think of something, I gotta tell you. But it was really important for her to and it was less about wanting to help me more about her needing the mental break, which I really understood and I really respected that. And she kinda goes offline at like five o'clock is available to me if I need her, but I really respected that she m laid down a boundary for me.

And I want people around me working really hard, but I just want everybody to feel integrated and to feel like they can do what they need to do with their lives. And we don't have to like be sitting at a desk from nine to five to make things work. You know. given this journey that you've been on, given what you've learned from Dry Bar, given the personal experience of the last several years. Why squeeze? Well squeeze really came out of my brother's brain, you know, because he was not participating in in Dry Bar because he has no hair. Um and we were we were longtime like massage goers our whole life. Our parents were, and so we just kind of inherited that behavior.

But similar to Dry Bar, you know, which when we started dry bar, there was two bad choices in the market. There was like, you know, the discount chains where you could get a blow up, the experience was bad and it was variable pricing and all the bad things. And it's similar with squeeze, you know, we found that We were frustrated, especially my brother, with the choices that were available for massage, which was like the discount chains, which are like leave a lot to be desired. And then the high end spas, you know, where massages are upwards of three hundred dollars for a massage at a spa, like a you know, or a hotel spa or whatever. And so we felt like there wasn't this affordable

But great experience. place to get a massage. And we really wanted to build it and felt like we could, you know, and that we kind of cut our teeth on dry bar and that we could do this with squeeze. And you know, the the beauty of squeeze is that one of the many things is that even though it's a brick and mortar and you go in for a massage, it's an app based system. So you book on the app, you tip on the app, you put in all your preferences on the app, when you go to book your appointment, you see r all the reviews that people have written about their therapist. So you can pick and choose based on that. And so that took us, you know, about a year to develop our own proprietary app, which is a game changer. Nobody else has that in the industry. And you don't have to reinvent the wheel. You don't have to invent an iPhone to be a successful entrepreneur. What you do have to do is take something

that you love that potentially exists that just isn't done well. And that's really what we did with dry bars, what we're doing with squeeze, you know. And that I think is the hallmark of a really successful endeavor as an entrepreneur. And That's really what we did with Squeeze is like just create something that was better than anything that was out there. And and I think that's why we've sold so many franchises because we are different than any other massage concept out there and frankly better. So if we're sitting here two or three years from now, what's your hope for what Squeeze is? I mean, I'd like to see Squeeze, you know, expand to like at least five hundred locations across the country, and I think that's a real doable achievable goal for sure.

Before we wrapped up our conversation, I invited Allie to answer a few lightning round questions to better understand the way she works. Other than the messy truth, what is the book that you most recommend other entrepreneurs read? I'm an Audible girl, so I like listen to books because I love to walk and listen to books, but there's so many good ones I have and I've read so many books and I love reading or listening, I guess I should say. But you know, I think one of the Best books I've read is Untethered Soul. Yeah.

And I've read it so many times and I keep going back to it because it's just and no matter where you are, who you are in your life, like I I think every single human would benefit from that. the beautiful story. Michael Singer is just amazing and I'd say that's my number one. What's a habit of yours that you haven't talked about publicly that others might benefit from knowing about? I probably haven't talked about this, but I'm sure you're familiar with Insight Timer, the meditation app, which is like I I'm on it every day and every night. And one of

Which I'm like, damn it, I didn't do that today. But What I do on most days is I listen to a lot of the things, but there's one little it's like a one minute mantra, whatever that I start my day off, which is like being thankful and trusting the divine to make the right choices to make good choices. Like this It's like a mantra of the It's like a it's like a minute, like the way I start most of my days with the reminder of like trusting the divine and It's just this beautiful like kind of sets me up for success. And every night I go to sleep to a meditation.

I don't know. I go to stretch lab a lot. That's probably so many people don't know because I feel like that is as I get older and like more crickety, getting somebody to stretch you is like the greatest thing. I have no affiliation to that company, but I love it. Amazing. Great. Thank you, Alan. Awesome. Thank you for having me. Nice to see you. You too. Ali Webb scale story is extraordinary. She went from being a stay-at-home mom who started by driving around doing at-home hair care.

to the head of a business with thousands of team members nationwide. Her steadfast belief that being the best at one thing is better than stretching yourself beyond your expertise. Has paid off big time. Alice's figured out how to rinse and repeat those lessons with her new massage business squeeze. And I can't wait to see what she comes up with next.

Also Аліз бук Деси Ту. has evolved into an online community, the Messy Collective. So make sure to check that out if you're craving more unvarnished conversations about navigating work and life. I'm Jeff Berman.

Thank you for listening to Masters of Scale. Masters of Scales await what original. Our executive producer is Eve Tro. Our senior producer is Trisha Bobida. The production team includes Tucker Legerski, Masha Makatanina, Brandon Klein, Timothy Lou Lee.

Our senior talent executive is Stephanie Stern. Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastanelli and Brian Pew. Original music by Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcasts is the tall Malad. Visit mastersofscale.com to find the transcript for this episode and to subscribe to our newsletter.