Chicken Salad Chick: Stacy Brown

Hey, it's Guy here, and before we start the show, I just want to remind you that we have sold out for both of our upcoming live shows in Chicago and in Boulder, Colorado. But please do make sure to follow how I built this on Facebook and Twitter, and keep your eyes peeled for any last minute ticket availability. Plus you can still get tickets for the first ever One Day How I Built This Summit. in San Francisco. That event is on october sixteenth, and it's sponsored by American Express. You can get your tickets at npr dot org slash summit. And now On to the show.

We hit the ground running on what we called our south eastern fundraising tour. And Packed up coolers full of chicken salad to hand out to possible investors. And we pitched to anyone that would listen. In every single meeting that we had.

We heard. You want us to invest. This much money. For a minority share of a business. That does not have a single franchise open.

Thanks, but no thanks. Laughed out of the room. ROM MPR is how I built this. a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements they built. Guy Roz, and on today's show, how a stay-at-home mom went from selling homemade chicken salad to friends and neighbors.

to building one of the fastest growing restaurant chains in America. She calls it chicken salad chick. Uh Okay, so chicken salad. Never really had strong thoughts on it either way.

You know, totally solid lunchtime option. But if you live in most parts of the southern United States, then you know that chicken salad is much, much more than just a solid option. It's like a lobster roll in Maine, where it might seem like it's the same thing everywhere, but it's those small nuances, those Delicate differences that fuel passionate debate over which lobster shack is the best lobster shack. And these are the kinds of debates southerners have over chicken salad.

These are the kinds of debates Stacey Brown would have with her friends. And Stacey happened to make really great chicken salad. Now today, Chicken Salad Chick is one of the fastest growing restaurant chains in America. But at the beginning It was a struggle just to make ends meet, but

We'll get there. What you need to know for now is that Stacey grew up in Rome, Georgia. She ended up at Auburn University in Auburn, Alabama, where she eventually settled with her first husband. He worked full time? While Stacey stayed home to raise the kids. But always knew I was gonna start a business. Always.

But Also knew that You can't do everything at once. And it was my time. To be

A full time mother. And It happened that the perfect storm for when I would start that business. Came in the shape of a divorce.

Hm. And at that time Carson my oldest was six. Jack. Was three and Lydia.

Was two. Well. And you've gotta figure this out. Yes, to know. Okay, I have these three children.

I've gotta make ends meet. I have to support them. Yeah. Divorce is a disaster. It's a financial disaster, it's an emotional disaster.

But when you know you have small children to take care of. The instinct to take care of them first. Let's you push through that because you know.

you have to take care of these kids. So all that other emotional stuff really Get through this survival. Because There's really no time to sit down and cry.

Okay, so you are trying to figure out what And what What did you start to think? So When I was in school dinner time.

in my home were really sacred times. My mother cooked every meal. And the four of us. sat around the dinner table every night. And I remember that my father

Started conversations. That Revolved around what Problems. Did you come across today?

And Our dinner time conversations were about solutions and how could we solve everyday problems. So I started to think ahead before dinner time. What am I gonna present tonight? To dad. Yes. And that really was

What started my entrepreneurial spirit. That question process of what problems can I solve. So when the divorce happened and I was in this situation, and all of a sudden What?

Do I have to offer the world? What and I an expert on. What have I perfected over these last years as a stay at home mom that people would value? Well, I knew that I was a good cook. And I happen to be obsessed.

with chicken salad. Obsessed with chicken salad. Obsessed. So by obsessed, what I mean by that is first of all I was obsessed with eating it, not making it. So every restaurant that I frequented. If they had a chicken salad on the menu Which Everybody should note that anybody that serves lunch, there is chicken salad on the menu, which should have told somebody something. Yeah.

And I was so fascinated by how different it all was and who was going to have the best recipe. And I was always in search of the best Recipe because as a southern woman, if you find a great chicken salad, then you want to share that information with your friends. And you want to be able to tell people where to go get the gold because it is a southern staple. So it was just A silly little quest, you know, that just If it was on a menu, then

I ordered it. I had. My hometown favorite. I had a favorite and Dalton, Georgia, Columbus, Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, where I attended school, all the towns that I lived in. So I knew that I could cook and I felt like I was a connoisseur.

Of chicken salad. So you thought. Hey. Kill? Let me try to make chicken salad and

Sell it? So If I could come up with a really good recipe? I could just make it from home. And I could sell it door to door.

Then I could be with the kids just like I'd always been. And maybe it's gonna be enough to make ends meet. Yeah. What was your basic chicken salad recipe a at that time? Well when it started

I didn't have a recipe, you know, I'd eaten a lot. I didn't have a recipe. So I thought well I loved the depth of flavor. From my home town favorite. I love the texture. From my Auburn favorite.

I love the moisture content. from my Dalton favorite. If I could take What I love about all of these different recipes and put it in to make mine maybe This is gonna be the perfect recipe. Yeah. So I start doing that. It's just like a science experiment and oh my gosh, I went through

Cooking whole chickens on the bone. I cooked chicken breasts on the bone. I cooked boneless breasts. I cooked tenderloins. All different. different amounts which affects everything. It affects the recipe. It affects the food cost. All of it.

mixing it up with mayonnaise and celery and some salt and spices and That was basically it. So a boiled chicken. Ah, wow. Whole chickens. Well

I started with whole chickens, I moved to breast on the bone, I did skinless breast, and I ended up with tenderloins. And I found that All white meat tenderloins. yield the most consistent. Product. And when you're doing things by weight.

You need the most consistent End result. But when you said what's in your chicken salad, so I had just this one recipe, right? Well, as I am Making this recipe, I thought you know

Elizabeth down the street. We had a conversation about chicken salad, and she loves fruits and nuts in hers. So I'm gonna make one for her. Now Julie across the street.

She loves spicy stuff. I'm gonna make one for her. And then if I'm gonna have one with fruits and nuts, a lot of people are allergic to nuts. So I'm gonna make one with just fruit.

So all of a sudden I had different flavors. And I started making recipes and I would Package up little Tupperware containers.

Of what I thought was a good recipe. And I would Take these little Tupperware containers. To people that I did business with in town. That you do business with.

For what? hairstylist and in grocery stores. Oh I see. Okay, I gotcha. So anybody that I came across town, you know, that I would normally see So I said w Would you please Just Sample this and tell me what you think.

And they would say, Oh Too dry. Ah Too soupy.

Too salty. Little blind. And as I received this feedback. Go back to the kitchen. And I tweaked and tweaked and tweaked.

And then one day I handed. This Recipe to somebody and I watched There.

Reaction. What? Something I had not seen yet. And they close their eyes. And their head went back and they made just the strangest noise it was just oh mm.

Wow. Енсе да вас а реа реакція. Мій даваси. So I took that recipe and continued to sample that recipe on neighbors and friends. Anybody I came across and said, Tell me what you think of this. Until

I had a wide range of people that I had sampled this one recipe, but they all Had the same. Response. So that told me that this was the recipe. So for the time you

y you separated from your husband to the time You got The recipe down, ready to sell, Roughly how long is that? Like a few months? I would say it was probably a few months.

making chicken salad, like Was anybody any friends or or or people who cared about you did anybody say, Hey, um You may want to just get a I mean you're g really good at making chicken salad, but This is not a sustainable

way to make a living selling chicken salad door to door. Like did anybody say that to you or were people just kind of Quiet. Yes, now my parents They Did not hold back with that they said now, Stacey.

This is Silly. you have got to go get a dependable job. And support these kids. And

I said please just Just hang on. Let me give this a try. Now I had friends that told me later. that they were saying that they did not dealt me to my face.

They did say, Oh yeah, good. Yeah, good luck. Yeah. Sounds good. Did you sense that from them? No. I was so determined I was blind as a bat. I was just gonna make this work. So you are determined. You don't really care if people think you're kind of Um like last year. Yeah. There honestly there there probably were people telling me that I was crazy in a very soft southern way.

Absolutely. Right. Absolutely. It's an art. It is an art form. So I'm I'm trying to imagine you um making chicken club. First of all, you had three kids And I've got Two little kids they they demand a lot of attention.

And you were trying to um make chicken salad and sell it and so were you doing this like at night? Like what What were you doing? So I would be with the kids during the day and when I would put them to bed I would start cooking. And then we would get up in the morning. and I would start to panic because I had all of this fresh product that I needed to sell quickly and put the kids in the car.

And we would go knocking on doors. They would sit in the car. And I would go knocking on a door with a basket and Ask them if they would like to buy some chicken salad. Was it like a quart of chicken? Or a pint or something. It was a pound. A pound, okay. And how much were you selling it for? Uh I think it was eight dollars and

I really thought that I was an aggressive salesperson and that I was ingenious and when I look back I think They were thinking, Oh, here comes that poor pitiful woman. Here she comes, pedaling that chicken salad. Lock the door and shut the blinds. Here she comes. But they bought it. And then they play standing orders. And the word group

And I needed a name because I knew I was gonna sell it door to door. And I thought the key to my success was going to be. A car magnet. Okay.

I thought the only way people are gonna find out what I do from my home is to put a car magnet on my car and as I drive around town and I sit at red lights. People will be able to see what I do. So chicken salad has to be in the name. And I'm the chick that's gonna bring it to you.

So chicken salad chick is catchy. Yeah. So that became the name of the business. And At this point I reach out to Kevin Brown.

Who had been a family friend for ten years. And He was a computer software salesman. I knew He

was very business savvy. And I didn't really know what I was doing. I had come up with a good recipe. I had a name, but I needed help. understanding really the ins and outs of running an effective business from home.

So I reached out to Kevin, I said please. Come help me. I don't know what I'm doing. And he agreed to come and consult.

With me. So Told him about my name, had him try the recipe, he was over the moon about the recipe And Kevin said, You know, if you're gonna have different flavors.

You really need to differentiate them somehow. Like, I don't know, give them like Girly names or something. And I was like, it's chicken salad chick. It's all coming together. It's a theme. And not only am I gonna name them after chicks. But I'm gonna name them after

Real chicks chicks that have influenced who I am today. Best friend since kindergarten, college roommate, mother. Mother in law Aunts, friends, neighbors. They all eventually had names in these

Chicken salads came to life. So I was delivering Fancy Nancy, Fruity France Classic Carol. And Jazzy Julie.

Warm up flavors. I was delivering these around the neighborhood. And I thought, you know. The gateway. Two communities our hairstylists and teachers.

Hm. If you can get a good product. In the mouths of hairstylists and teachers, you will be connected to every family in town. So I went and put a large bowl of classic carol. In my children's

School in the teacher's lounge. Yes, I put business cards out, I put crackers around this giant bowl, and the phone started ring off the hook. Because everybody was like, This is perfect, I can go home, I don't have to make dinner. Or lunches for my kids'cause it's gonna be ready made Fresh chicken salad in the fridge. Made from scratch. Made from scratch. And that turns into me cooking.

Longer hours. And I find myself Crying a little bit because it's starting to be overwhelming. And As fate would have it, the next phone call that came was

Came from the health department. How do they find out about you? Well I don't really know. It was anonymous caller. that called the health department. And said this person is doing what?

They said this woman is cooking chicken salad out of her home. Which was illegal. Is it for like food safety reasons? Yes, because you have to conduct business out of a kitchen that is inspected by the health department. Ah yes, right. Okay.

So you got this call from from like an inspector at the Health department. Were you freaked out? Were you scared? Well It was a little depressing because I'd worked my tail off. It seemed to be working. People were ordering this chicken salad, you know.

And all of a sudden I'm shut down. Yeah. I'm back to square one. I'm back to now

I've gotta leave the kids and go get a nine to five because What I was doing was illegal. Yeah. So it was a dark time, it was a dark day that Well this was working.

This was really working and it's all over. And people liked the chicken salad so much. that they knew I had been shut down because I had to tell people no. And they would call anyway and they would go, Hey ps. I'm friends with Elizabeth.

She said, If I told you Maybe you'd make me some chicken salmon. I had to say, All right, everybody, no. I'm not bootlegging chicken salad. I'm not doing this. I I'm not doing this. I'm done. I'm shut down. See, we're gonna be making like the bathtub gin version of chicken salad. You could see me in the corner of an elementary school parking lot with my hatch open. And and so you were finished. Your your business was done.

It was done. I was told. Shut down immediately. When we come back. How Stacey found a totally legal way to keep making chicken salad. And grow her business well beyond her neighborhood.

Stay with us, I'm Guy Roz and you're listening to How I Built This from NPR. Hey, welcome back to how I built this from NPR. So it's 2007 and Stacey's homemade chicken salad operation has been shut down by the health department. But Just when she's about to give up? Her business partner, Kevin. Comes up with an idea.

He said, You know, you've gotten a lot of attention here in this neighborhood. I bet. that we could find you a little takeout spot. Just something small. And You could give this a go and it would pay your bills.

And I'll help you do it. And We decided to partner on paper. So I was fifty one percent, he was forty nine, and we were gonna open up a little Takeout spot.

So There was a drive through window in this tiny little eight hundred square foot shack. And That was gonna be it. That was gonna be chicken salad chick how much was your rent, by the way? Eight hundred dollars. Pretty good price for a business. And what was Kevin's motivation

to help you I mean he had a full time job like Did he really believe in the business? Uh yes. He was inspired by this crazy reaction that was happening in town. And then it's exciting to start a business and

We had been family friends and whenever all the families got together He and I always had a meeting of the minds of what was going to be the next greatest big thing. So We already had that connection. And then all of a sudden

We're gonna start this little chicken salad business together. Yeah. But now This is Two thousand seven.

Right before The huge recession. Great. He's still selling software. And his job.

It's eliminated. So he was pretty devastated with that. Because he had an ex wife and a daughter to support. And he said, You know, not to worry. I'm gonna really put all my effort

Into helping you start this chicken salad business. And then when it gets Up and off its feet, I'll go get a real job. And I have never let him forget that he said that. So

You guys are working out of an eight hundred square foot like stand with a drive thru window. And did you install an a commercial oven in there and like c a commercial sink and Did you have to do all that stuff? So

We are building this little thing from scratch and Neither one of us had any money. We could not hire a contractor to come build this thing. So we were going to home depot and we were buying flooring. We were laying the floor. We were buying paint. We were painting the walls. We were hanging drywall. And thankfully I had wonderful parents and they would come from Rome, Georgia, and they would stay at my little place and keep the kids while Kevin and I Build.

This restaurant. And this was gonna be such a tiny little thing we didn't need commercial equipment. We just needed residential because this is not that big a deal. Yeah. So everything was absolutely home spun and we opened finally January seventh of two thousand eight. So

Recession is here. Is there, yeah. And and Did you so by this point you're incorporated, you've created an LLC, like you've done all that stuff. You are a bona fide business now. You're legit. We're legit. You're legit, okay. And the County health inspectors are like yep, fine, you're legit you open the doors And on day one were your former customers like lining out the door waiting for chicken salad?

So on day one We Cooked forty pounds of chicken salad. So you could have it as a scoop, a sandwich, or you could buy a pound. You would choose your flavors of chicken salad.

We would compliment those with our made From scratch side salads and then every lunch got a cookie. Because My view is that you don't really know you're full. Until you have one little bite of sweet that says you're done and happy.

So that first day you make forty pounds of chicken salad and And we opened up the doors and all of our family and friends came to support us and All these well wishers and flowers and balloons and plants are being delivered and The walls are lined with all family and friends. And you can see that in the middle of the room there's not a single customer.

No one shows up. Hm. There's just such a deep Heaviness.

It's the elephant in the room. I could just Feel everyone's thoughts like I mean how could she think this was gonna work? It was so heavy and I thought, What have I done? What have I done? I've just put every

penny to my name into a business that Only serves lunch, only serves takeout, and only sells chicken salad. We could not have made it any more difficult for you to be a guest. You had to fit into a very slim demographic to be our guest. So um you know I'm thinking how stupid, how stupid, how could I have done this?

And the first guest walked in the door. And everybody in the room Just attacked her. Like she was the millionth customer, you know, that she

But she was the only customer. Like people just ran up to her and said, Hello, how are you? Can we help you? Like Like that kind of it was like Oh You're just like Yeah, it was just we just mauled her. And people were you know, it's the south. Everybody was hugging her and thanking her. Wow. She's like what what did I do? I just showed up for some chicken salad.

Uh no. And guess what? She's never shown back of it. Oh wow. Okay, well she's listening. We scarred that woman. So she shows up for the chicken for chicken salad and and then what? So she is stunned by all of the attention that she's getting. She orders her lunch, she leaves and then People start coming. And a line forms the line goes out the door. Down the sidewalk and we sell out in two hours. Wow. It just took lunchtime.

Oh at ten o'clock in the morning. Nobody wants chicken salad until noon. Yes. I just wanted people to be there. And So Kevin and I looked at each other and said, Well let's make some more. So we made eighty pounds the second day. And here

was a surreal moment a realize Every one of those faces that we saw on the first day. was there on the second and they brought a friend. And we sold out. in two hours again with twice the amount of chicken salad.

And very quickly it turned into what always said look like the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. In that eight hundred square foot in an eight hundred square foot building. And I'm thinking, okay, people are liking this. And they wanted everything we had to cook. We could not make it fast enough. We were running out of food, but we weren't making a dime. My assumption would be the kids were crushing it. You were making money hand over fist. And we weren't. And you weren't. Well why? Well, we didn't know how much money we were spending on inventory. We didn't

know how to project how much we needed to cook and our waste. We'd have waste of one item and then not enough of others. Yeah. So I remember very clearly this day, we were running out of food and Kevin and I had busted out the back door, we run down the production kitchen to grab more broccoli salad, more grape salad, we're out. And we come back down to the service kitchen, and he turns around and barricades himself against the door and he said, Stacey, stop. So what? He said this isn't working.

We are not making any Money. And nobody is gonna work this hard. We're working our tails off. And we're not making any money. It's not gonna work. And I said, Get out of the way. I've got to feed these people.

So He knew then She's not gonna give up. So he went in there. And he worked on our processes.

And every day he would say Today we did this in six steps. Tomorrow we're gonna do it in five. Today we did it in five. Tomorrow we're gonna do it in four. And he turned us into a well oiled machine. And it didn't take him.

Very long in the grand scheme of things. So We opened January seventh of two thousand eight. And we were making money. About two thousand nine.

Wow. Two more restaurants. In Auburn. To pull the chaos away from that one little shack. But I had to imagine you were working like crazy.

So You know The reason that I wanted to do this was so that the children would have that stability.

So it would not make sense. If I said to heck with all that. I'm going to go open a restaurant that's gonna have me working all hours of the night. Yeah. And when we opened the restaurant, we said we are going to run a restaurant. The restaurant is not going to run us.

So the first thing we did that was smart was We primarily serve lunch. So we're not gonna be there at four o'clock in the morning preparing breakfast, and we're not gonna be there at two o'clock in the morning closing down a bar. And then Kevin made the commitment. that he said, I'll take the later hours, you take the earlier hours so that you can be home with the kids.

for the majority of the day. and he held true to that commitment. And We Got married.

Whoa, wait, you just you just buried the lead. During that time you were the the two of you were uh both single parents and and and you were working together, so b so I guess you start to fall in love, right? Yes, I mean crisis bonds you. Yeah. We were in the fire. Yeah. Yeah, I guess she'd say we fell in love over chicken salad. Yeah. So in that first year you open up a

business and you also Get married to each other. Yes. So in november of two thousand eight we closed The restaurant.

They hung a sign on the door that said the chick and the rooster have gone to get married. And we flew to Jamaica, we got married, we stayed there for four days, we came back to the fire of the restaurants and a blended family. So now there were four kids. So Kevin had a daughter. Olivia.

about two at that time, and so we Came back to I say three restaurants, four children, and the cat and the dog ran away.

It was it was my mother says it was a festive life. So This business really started to take off in Auburn, right? I mean, who was who was coming? I mean was it College students, was it the sort of lunchtime crowd? Was it just was it everybody?

Well okay, so When we opened the restaurant, I had no clue That naming it chicken salad chick might deter men? Hm. And I found out

Once we open the restaurant. We became known as a chicky place. You know, this was a place for women. Uh huh. I had no clue. You know, good food's good food. Right. Yeah. So

Then it was really lots of fun to observe male behavior in the chicken salad check. So I had a You know, these names of the chicken salads. Sassy Scotty, Fancy Nancy, Fruity Fran, Nutty Nana. All these nights.

would come up to the counter and they would say Just give me the one with the fruits and the nuts. And I would say um Well that's fancy Nancy.

Is that the one that you would like, Fancy Nancy? They say don't make me say the stupid names, can't you just number'em? But they came in the door.

Oh, they came in the door. So the first time they would come in They'd come in with a girlfriend or a wife, and they'd elbow her and they'd say you order. Because they didn't want to have to say the names. And once they ate it The girlfriends and wives didn't have to come anymore. They were coming for the food and they didn't care about saying the names. They were all in.

So as you as you grew and as you had more and more customers coming through the door, how did you finance The second and the third Locations. Through

the revenue of the first restaurant. Wow. So the cash flow was able to help you Open up those other locations. Believe me, every bank laughed us out. Of Those offices. You could not get alone?

No. Wow, have you heard this incredibly successful business and the bank said, No way. Right. They said you had to be in business for over two years. You know, with a steady income.

To show Та де с вас застейна бізнес. Hm. would not give you any money. Right. But but wasn't this uh also a around the time where you start to to think about the idea of possibly franchising? Yes. So we're in this college town.

And all of the students Would come and they would bring their families to Chicken Salad Chick because it was a unique place to Auburn. And the moms and dads of these students would say wow. This is awesome. What do I have to do to get one of these in Little Rock, Arkansas? What do I have to do to get one of these in Virginia? Huh. Because we're running these three restaurants in you know still in somewhat survival mode.

We would say, Are you kidding? Like we can barely breathe. Franchise? Are you kidding? I mean I would joke around and say, um, put on a apron and help out in the kitchen because I can't do any more.

But Yeah. We got tired of saying no. So We said. Let's just put your name on a list.

If we ever get to it. We'll give you a call. And that list quickly over a hundred people that wanted franchises. And

About two thousand. Ten. We were starting to even write the documents to franchise the concept. And then found ourselves in the position of

How are we going To rent a franchise company. We have three restaurants. that it's taking every bit of every effort that we Can muster.

We need to partner. So h how did you Start to look for a partner. Well we wanted to partner. with people that had franchising experience because we had none.

And A couple Husband and wife. was introduced to us. I think this was two thousand twelve.

And the husband had franchising experience with major brands. So that was very encouraging. But there was a little Issue with how they wanted to partner. They wanted fifty one percent of the business.

And Kevin was No, completely no. That's not gonna happen. But

You know, I rationalized it out by saying We really didn't have plans of getting into the franchising business. And so our exit strategy is probably gonna be to sell out to these people anyway, one day. So what's the harm? in selling them fifty one percent because

they're gonna take the lead on the franchising part of this anyway. And they were also presumably gonna Put some cash up. Oh yes. Yeah. Which for us was exciting that we had worked this hard and all of a sudden we were gonna have a little realization Of

You know, some success. So you took the deal. So we took the deal. And If you had sound effects it would go wah wah wah.

Very quickly. It went downhill. Yeah. They had a very different vision for the brand of where it was going to go. And we were not comfortable with that. It was not a good working relationship and we knew

that if they took the lead on that, it was going to be the end of the brand. So what did you do? So We had a meeting with mister and misses so and so. And Kevin said

We need to dissolve this partnership because it's clearly not working. And The husband said Well kids

This is not a partnership. We own fifty one percent of this business. And we can fire you. With just cause and take your shares any time we want. Wow.

Yeah, wow. I felt Like The blood left my body. Like

We Have been Purchased by sharks. I can't believe this. How could we have been this wrong? And thankfully, that time we had a board of directors.

And we took this situation to our board of directors. And they said, Mr and Mrs. So and so, you need to give the Browns The chance to buy you out because they're the founders of the business. And they said okay, we'll do that. And they said here's our price.

Which was three times the amount that they had purchased four months earlier. Wow. And not only is this our price, but you have thirty days to get it to us. How much were they asking for? One point.

Three? Wow. 1.3 million. And keep in mind that at this point we didn't have a single franchise open. So Kevin and I determined to make this work. We hit the ground running on what we called was our South Eastern fundraising tour. Ha ha He put together his best presentation, his best pitch, and I packed up coolers full of chicken salad to hand out to possible investors.

And we pitched to anyone that would listen. Anybody that had a friend that could be interested, please come and listen to us. So we traveled and held meetings and Hotel conference rooms, chamber of commerce conference rooms, and every single meeting that we had. We heard.

You want us to invest this much money. For a minority share of a business. That does not have a single franchise open. Thanks, but no thanks. Uh.

laughed out of the room. And this whole time that thirty day clock is ticking away. So With Two days.

left on that thirty day clock. Kevin is telling we're sitting on the back porch. He said you have Got. to get a grip on reality.

This is the end. It was a good thing. But it Is the end. Mm.

And We'll figure out something else. And I was not willing to face that. Well we go to work.

Into our And a lady in the office Slid me A piece of paper.

And on that piece of paper. were the names of five people. And she said, Call these people. It's all I've got. But give'em a try in the office.

Her name was Claudia Isaac. And she was our receptionist. So she said, Call these people, they might help. Yes.

So I called those gentlemen and I begged. I begged with no shame. And I said, I know it sounds crazy, but will you please just come listen to what we have to say. And they agreed.

So we went to a conference room at the Chamber of Commerce in Auburn. Kevin gave them his Best Four hour pitch. And we took them to lunch at Chicken Salad Chick.

I packed them up full of coolers of chicken salad, we put them in their cars, and we said goodbye to our last chance. And that was gonna be it. Mm. And very quietly Kevin and I got in our car. we were driving back to the office knowing

That it was over. And Kevin's phone rang. And one of the Gentlemen. In that meeting.

His name was Erlin McCorter. And um He said, Can you two come back to the restaurant? We said sure and we whip the car around. We get back to the restaurant and we sit in a booth with this

Very kind gentlemen. And he said I believe in the two of you. And this is a good thing.

And I don't wanna see it die. And I will write you a check for every penny that you need. Wow. And I'm sure he thought I was having a stroke because I Absolutely was coming.

Falling apart. Tears are flowing down my cheeks. А нам стан. Kevin is Nodding and saying.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And he became the most wonderful partner we ever could have asked for. And he was just um

I mean was he what was his profession, what was his background? So his background was in construction. He um opened And constructed over three hundred loaths. Are you familiar with L. Oh sure, of course. Yes.

So he was a self made man from the ground up and he understood that people had helped him in his career And he Appreciated that.

And he was willing to To help us out. Yeah. So you You're back on your feet.

And at that point were you able to start Selling franchises. Yes. So Erlin infused capital into the business. We got into a great office building and we were able to hire

The most wonderful passionate people to build the infrastructure that could support opening franchises effectively. Where was the first location? So the very first franchise location was Montgomery, Alabama. And and how did it do there? It's not.

Wonderful. They came at us like we were not prepared. So the expansion started in Alabama and and When did you have a f your first location outside of Alabama? Well the third location was Columbus, Georgia.

I mean This is like Big time. Like you're starting to you you can start to see where this is heading. Yes. We must have been incredibly exciting.

Oh my gosh, it was amazing and As we're building our infrastructure We are selling and opening more restaurants. And everybody is happy.

Amazing. End of story. I wish. So No, it didn't end there. So after we had a number of owners

And we were on fire and the line to sell restaurants was long. Kevin said, We need to have a conference. We're legit. We need to get all these owners together and celebrate and make a plan for future growth. We need to get together. So we held our first conference in Destin, Florida. While we're there. In between

putting on these segments and these classes Kevin, which this is not like him at all, was having to lay down And Pain. And we thought he had um

gallbladder problems and he said, I'm just gonna go to the doctor when we get home, but let's get through this conference. So we got through the conference. Goes to the doctor. And And um so at age thirty eight.

Kevin was diagnosed. With Stage four. Colon cancer. and it had metastasized to his liver.

So it was the beginning of another fight. Well. I can't even imagine. I I just can't imagine. What?

That was like. Well He was the toughest man. I have Ever.

known in my life. And It took him About three days. From the time that he got the news.

To process What was happening to him? And then He came out with a new purpose and a new mission. And his purpose.

Helping other people. with this disease that could not fight for themselves because he was a fiter And that was the beginning. of the chicken salad chick foundation.

And this became a new part of our mission. And He went at that full force. I mean he had stage four colon cancer.

He was taking chemotherapy. But he didn't miss a day of work. Wow. If he Could stand up. He was at work.

And he fought and fought. for this foundation and he said We've got to make. An impact on research fast. And he came up with the idea to hold a concert.

In Jordan Hare Stadium, which is our football stadium on Auburn's campus. And he said not only Are we going to hold a concert in Jordan Hare, but we are gonna have Kenny Chesney headline it. Like one of the biggest yeah, right.

Biggest name in country music. The only person that could feel That stadium would be Kenny Chesney. And He got Kenny Chesney.

And he got Jordan Hare Stadium. Unfortunately They passed away. Before the concert.

He passed away november twenty first, two thousand fifteen. And the concert was in April. But on that night In epril fifty tausen people. Walked in

To Jordan Hare Stadium. For a Kenny Chesney concert. And it was The most amazing Unbelievable night you could imagine.

Well. Amazing. He was just such a tremendous person and a tremendous presence and So now I have the honor

Of picking up the fight in his name. And and he not only left the the legacy the the foundation, but uh but the legacy of this business that's growing. Yes.

And I mean really, really growing. I mean you guys H how many locations does does Chicken Salad Chick now have? So we have eighty five locations now. And what I mean What's the trajectory? Does it uh is there a certain point where it stops growing or

Are you just planning on Opening and opening and opening and opening. Well, our goal is to be America's favorite place for chicken salad. So that gives us a lot of ground to cover. Mm-hmm. So

We can't wait to see How the rest of the country. receives us. We're very excited. To bring the taste of the south. to the entire country.

I think that in two thousand seventeen Uh, your company was like number thirty seven out of five thousand of the fastest growing businesses in the country according to Inc. or Fortune or Forbes, one of those magazines. That's That's unbelievable. It's insane. It's crazy. And it's chicken salad. Yeah.

And It always tickled me when I would hear People Like investor type people say Really just chicken salad, you think that's gonna work? A whole restaurant off of just chicken salad?

I was like, Really? Pizza? You think a restaurant will work off of just pizza? Or burgers, you think that would work? What's the difference?

Um Do you have a sense of how many People are employed by chicken cellar chick today. It's gotta be hundreds. I'm thinking it's like twelve hundred, fifteen hundred.

And I've seen reports of revenue figures from two thousand sixteen um And I do you guys are do you talk about your revenue at all? Is that private? We do. I mean it's out there and Whenever I speak at the university to classes, our students, you know, are so attached to their phones and it's hard to get their heads up off of their phones sometimes, but

It's so funny. Of the students or when I say remember About what you're capable of. When you're Passion is involved because this was a business.

that only needed to make five hundred dollars a month to make ends meet is now making seventy five million dollars a year. Wow. How much of this Of the success of this. Enterprise do you think has to do with the skills that you and Kevin brought to it and how much of it was just a lot.

Log. I don't know. It it's been too hard for me to say it was luck. Yeah. We worked really hard. That would that's hard to accept luck. It's I don't think it's luck.

I think we have paid our dues. I think we were good learners. I think we also New That we weren't it. Like I know what I'm good at.

And I know what I'm not so Great at. In every part of the business deserves to have an expert in their field. For it to all Work.

A hundred percent on all cylinders. So Kevin and I very early had to understand what we were great at. And what we were not great at. Okay.

You know You don't have to be a rocket scientist, you don't have to have miljans of dollars. You just Have to have Passion.

and drive and the will to get up and go. And when life knocks you down You just keep getting up. Stacey Brown, founder of Chicken Salad Check. To this day, Stacey is stuck by her motto that she runs the business, the business doesn't run her.

So every Sunday all employees get the day off to do whatever it is. they want to do. I keep thinking about how you Boil the chicken. Mind blowing because I always roast an entire chicken and then

Pick all the meat out and then make some mayonnaise and uh add some Dijon mustard, some green onions, celery, there you go. You know, salt. I got my chicken salad. You you blown my mind. You just described another whole recipe. Yeah. Probably perfect for you, but you haven't tried mine yet. Please do stick around because in just a moment we're gonna hear from you about the things you're building. Hey, thanks so much for sticking around because it's time now for how you built that. And today's story starts with beer, which if you've ever brewed it yourself, you know it takes just four ingredients. You've got your water. You've got your hops, which everyone knows about, and you've got your yeast, which is kinda where the magic happens, but when This is Dan Kurzrock, and Dan used to brew his own beer in college. The most important ingredient is actually grain, like malted barley.

You take water and you mix it in with the grain, kind of like making a batch of oatmeal. And oatmeal is the key word here, because when Dan and his friends were making their own beer, they noticed that all the leftover piles of wet barley well, it smelled kind of like breakfast. It smelled like bread, it was very fragrant. But None of the brewing books told us What to do. With this grain.

So we would put it in the dumpster. All this is happening around 2009, 2010. And a few years later, Dan was in the Bay Area, where craft breweries were booming. and he started to notice that a lot of those breweries, just like him, were churning out huge mounds of leftover spent grain. It smelled like food. It looked like food, and so it was really uh pretty low hanging fruit to think, okay, well maybe we can make food products out of this. Now luckily for Dan

He had a friend named Jordan who had worked in the food business. And so they teamed up and called a bunch of small breweries in the Bay Area. And they started to drive around with these big plastic tubs to Yeah, I throw out my back a few times doing this, and then we got dollies and yeah, it was heavy. So anyway, they take those heavy tubs of barley to Jordan's parents house and Just experiment. I took my uh now mother in law's recipe for loose granola.

It had oats in it. It had flax, honey cinnamon. So they went back and forth with the recipe, and eventually they decided to turn the granola into snack bars. Low sugar, high fiber, with a great eating experience. It's not a mush bar. That kinda eats like a rice crispy treat. Dan and Jordan of course tested the snack bars on friends and at farmers markets and some of the feedback was not so great. People found the bars to be a bit dry. And to be a bit pokey. Wait.

Pokey? Okey. Yeah. So the green is quite sharp. And so it would get pi stuck in people's teeth. And one of the mouthfeel descriptors that we got pretty consistently was Pokey.

So to eliminate the pokiness Dan and Jordan decided to grind the beer grain into more of a flour. And then from there that really solved the texture issue. So we did launch, you know, now we have a great product that's selling really well. We've got another one on the way. The snack bars are now on sale in regional chains in many parts of the US and on Amazon. Now, they're not profitable, but Dan and Jordan have both quit their day jobs and they're paying themselves a small salary. You know, I'm not buying a house any time soon, uh unless they take a down payment and then you know, nutrition bars. I mean if you know any. Dan and Jordan's company is called Regrained, and by the way, re-grained snack bars do not taste like beer, but they do have beery names like chocolate coffee stout and honey cinnamon IPA. If you want to find out more about Regrained or hear previous episodes of our show, head to our new podcast page, how I built this dot npr dot org, and of course if you want to tell us your story,

Go to build dot npr dot org. We love hearing what you're up to. And thanks so much for listening to the show. This week you can subscribe to our program at Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and while you're there, please do give us a review. You can also write us at hibtnpr.org and if you want to send a tweet, it's at how I built this. Our show is produced this week by Rand Abdelfata with original music composed by Ramteen Arabli. Thanks also to Noor Kutsi, Sanazmehpur, Neva Grant, and Jeff Rogers, our intern is JC Howard.

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