#84 with Noah Kagan - How the Founder of AppSumo Walked Away From $100m

No, what's going on? Sam Par. Um in meetings all day and then I'm heading out to California. In four hours. So I was just uh I haven't been on this podcast in a minute because I was in Austin. Um I drove from California to Austin. I hung out with Noah and Neville and a bunch of people.

And now Noah is coming to Malibu or I'm coming to SF for a month and then I'm gonna go to Malibu for a month. Where are you staying in San Francisco? Andrew Chen's house. Oh that's right. You told me. I've decided that I'm gonna get rid of my apartment in San Francisco and I'm gonna live in

different cities for one or two months each. We're copying each other, Sam. Y you went bald, so I went bald. You're I'm moving places, so you're moving places. I need to get glasses. A dog

A be well, yeah, you need you need a few things. I need a few things you're funny. We uh We know each other well, but can you tell the listeners who you are? What is up you sexy listeners? Uh Noah Kagan. Uh, I'm a cyclist. I'm a chess player. Uh lately I'm making a lot of content on YouTube about everything I'm learning at appsumo.com. That's youtube.com slash okay dork.

I helped start app sumo.com, which is the number one site online for software deals, an eight figure company. Been around ten years. Uh I was number thirty at Facebook. Number four at Mint dot com. Uh and then the two other things that I like working on and and

Playing with business wise is sendfox.com, which is a free email list for content creators. And OkDork.com, which is my side about Overcoming fear. Starting and marketing startups. And

Noah and I have known each other for um six or seven years. Oh a wow now. We're you're well I think you're five or six years older than me. We're we're very similar personalities. We're a little crazy. We have a a uh a bunch of different ideas. Um would you say that's accurate? Yeah, I didn't like you for a long time.

Why? Mm. So Sometimes you'll hang out with Sam if you guys have hung out or had the chance to you'll hang out with Sam he's like How much money are you making doing this one thing?

It's like It's like someone asking you like how big is your penis? You're like, dude, I don't know you and you're asking a really personal, kind of aggressive It's almost it's it's like to the level of transactional that's just a little too much versus what you'd expect from a friend. And I think sometimes it's interesting to observe the people or companies that we're jealous of or the companies we're reacting negatively negatively to and really trying to understand that. In our first experience, I think if I recall, you wanted me to come speak at the hustle.

No, I I wanted you it was yeah, I wanted you to speak at an event. And I I w you asked me to write a blog post for you and I wrote this blog post. And then You didn't publish it. And I was like, what the fuck. There was just weird vibes I was getting from you.

And so it didn't make me excited to want to do anything, and then you sent me like a neutral bullet or some kind of item. And I was just like, This guy weirds me out, I don't like how he's behaving. And so over the years though I've started to appreciate your quirkiness and it's probably like me. I'm sure some people listen to me be like, nah, I don't like the style. I think the point for everyone is not to just go and accept everyone and love everything. But to observe our jealousy, observe our negativity, observe our criticism, and think about what we're trying to really say about ourselves or learn about ourselves. I think one thing I would say about you, Sam, that I've appreciated

Is that it's interesting to observe the people in life who get what they want. Because those people you don't see all the things they're not getting. And I really respect with Sam. How persevering you are. I think there's a lot of times where I'm like, Oh yeah, this guy's gonna qu there's so many people I'm like, Oh, they're gonna quit soon.

And I definitely you know, the hustle wouldn't be anything without effort and I think without You just kept going and won't stop. And I think more people have to Some people are like, Well I don't have that. I'm not Sam Power, I'm not Noah Kagan, I'm not it's like yeah, you're yourself, which is even better. And it's just finding the things that you never want to give up on.

So find your hustle, find your app sumo. Find your okay dork.com. And just find something you'll never quit on and then go for it. And that's one thing I've I've definitely appreciated watching your journey from afar. W you said you didn't like me or I you I rubbed you the wrong way. Were you saying that be and then you said jealousy. You're saying because you think I was jealous of you or you jealous of me? No, I think at the time I just found you kind of

I was uncertain of your motiv I did it's been in like six years, so I'm not exactly sure. I don't I think everyone's favorite story is themselves. So if you ever want to talk to someone, be like, Hey, you know what I noticed about you? And they're like, What? Um But I think feedback is a whole nother thing we can talk about that. I think I just had a weird vibe and I didn't know what your intentions were. And I think

What was interesting is like other friends of ours were like Oh yeah, he is a good dude And he isn't but I was like, I guess I'm I'm missing something. So let's uh we're gonna talk about business in a second, and I think This is kind of an interesting conversation because but I think that what has brought us to be friends is our mutual friend Neville Madora, who's is both of our best friend. He was the best man at my wedding and You have a

Well. Uh, you have a brother, but he probably had it not been for your brother, he probably would be in that category for you as well. Um And so it's interesting how like Like

You could we both see how we're loyal to one person and that brings like good qualities out of each other. I think Neville said I'm his number one. I don't know if you talked to him recently. Well. We can fight over that if you're going to be able to do it. No, I never said he said I was number one, but I uh you know, we we both are we're both loyal to similar people.

Um So let's talk about Let's talk about different interesting companies and businesses that we're both looking at because we're you and I are the same and that we're both like pretty big schemers. And not that we do shit all the time, but we both like Like like to figure out how things work.

Um What are you looking at? Like you're really interested in the in the email space with SendFox. Um I'm interested in that as well. What what interests you about email? Like why are you like'cause Ab Sumo's pretty successful.

Um, you don't have to start new shit if you didn't want to. Why are you choosing Sun Fox? I think choosing one of my favorite books around the words that you use is the Dalai Lama's Art of Happiness. And I love that you were choose. Right, because I don't have to do anything. I want to do things. I don't need to do stuff. I want stuff. And I think it's interesting for all of us to be aware of that.

Namaste everyone. Uh I think what One of the things that drives me is curiosity. Uh and I think in terms of business, like if people out there are You don't listen to this and say, Hey, I wanna get my business started. The best business to start

It's something that solves your own problem. And so for me I was using MailChimp. I've used Convert kit. I've checked out a Weber. I've checked one, I found him way over expensive. I found him way overcomplicated. It took me like forty five minutes to set up a MailChimp email. And so I was like I just want something more affordable and simpler and that's why we built Scentfox.

And I I think that's something where I I'll keep working on it forever with the team. I think what's interesting is trying to think about what's gonna happen in the next six months to six years. And then how do I be a little bit ahead of everyone else? So if you think about it, let me ask you, Sam, do you think there's gonna be more or less content creators in the future? Absolutely more. So I think

You know, the the one problem that I noticed with all the channels like YouTube or Instagram or TikTok or any of these? Is that ultimately they are incentivized to get you to pay to talk to your audience. Why? Because they have to make money. And so email is the only channel I've ever found that can scale communicating with an audience that you can f fully control. And so I think if Sinfox

becomes the number one place for people to grow their audiences. Uh one, I I want it for myself, number one, and two, it's just a really big and interesting opportunity to work on. So we send How many emails do I send a year? Maybe uh

Six or seven hundred million? I don't even know to be honest. H wh appsumo probably has a similar amount of emails, like hundreds of millions of sends per year. Well I pay. I think I pay ten or fifteen grand a month to send those. Is it does that sound right?

I don't really know. I think what there's two things that are more interesting to me. One. I've been focusing more on The total audience? that you have available? Because email is an is a component of your audience.

Right. So you actually have like hustle on Facebook, hustle Instagram, hustle YouTube, hustle podcasting. your total active audience and there's overlap. That number I'm actually more fascinated with. And the second thing with email, I think the metric Cost is one thing. But I think the mistake that we're Senfo you said Senfox was trying to make it cheaper because you're'cause you were surprised at how much affordable. How much does that cost a send?

I'll tell you. If you take point zero zero zero two And then times that by how many emails so The thing that MailChimp and ConvertKid and all these guys so point zero zero zero two Times your number. So they make money.

If you don't send emails. Because they make money off your subscriber. Of course. And so. The way that's so Scentfox is free and then we're a one time payment because most people don't actually email and so we're trying to fix that. uh and work through those kind of challenges with people.

But the other thing I think people need to think about in in terms of growing their community or starting a newsletter, like if you don't have one, start it today, use sendfox.com, number one. But the second thing is The number that's the most important is not your email list size. It is your active email list size. So it is the amount of people within three months that have opened and clicked your email. Because you know, I've had hundreds of thousands probably I think in my total lifetime of okay Dork I've had a hundred and seventy five thousand. Subscribe to the newsletter. My active audience is only fifty five.

Think about that. And that's what we do too, but we churn people every Three months, like we sunset him. Uh like where we send them an email and be like, Hey you're gonna get we're gonna take you off this list. I don't know off the top of my head to be honest with you, but I know that like one, I could tell you this though. So like our open rate's really, really high. Right now it's like fifty five percent.

Um and I think the average person stays two years. So you can Somehow. Figure out what that is.

Yeah, but but Uh like it. Like if we don't get'em on the hook right away, then they're never gonna get on the hook. How do you get on the hook? Your welcome email needs to be really good. Your thank you page after they sign up needs to be really good. You know this shit. This is what you did. No, it's good dude. Here's the thing I'm still learning.

Even your unsubscribe page needs to be great, which you didn't you have a really good unsubscribe page. But I I gave up on that one. I think the thank you page and your welcome thing are like the two of the most neglected pieces of marketing. Yeah, I call'em like you have to make the the forgotten parts really good. So like your Thank you, Page, your welcome email, your unsubscribe page. Um

Just like little Easter egg shit like that. That needs to be good. What do you recommend for those? To make them good? Yeah. Well our so I get accused of stealing CD babies.

Email Welcome email, which I didn't even know. uh what that was. But then when I saw it, I realized oh yeah, I can I totally understand why people see that think I stole that. But my welcome email was like a really detailed welcome email that it was like really long and explained what happened when you signed up. And it was pretty funny. And like if you Google like the hustle welcome email, a lot of people wrote about it. Um, people seem to like that. So just like being creative and writing long form content about what happened after

those types of things, um when those people signed up. It it works pretty well. But with with so let's say like Convert Kit let's say Convert Kit is doing twenty million dollars a year in sales, which Convert Kit's awesome because I like the guy who started it. I like Convert Kit and they reveal all their revenue numbers. If they're doing twenty million in revenue. Like W you said that you w try to make Scentfox more affordable. I have no idea. How much do they actually charge thing to or how much are they what's their cogs in order to send all those emails.

Point zero zero two it's it might be point zero zero zero one five times how many subscribe how many emails they're sending a month. The profit is all on the people who don't email. It's basically I think of email marketing companies as very expensive hosting. You're basically paying a lot of money to host Zeros and ones and digits that don't cost anything. And so I I think more importantly, if people are trying to start businesses, like that's a really interesting business to start, but it's also interesting business to disrupt.

Um like I think Substack has done amazing with it coming at it from like hey, email's actually free. And we're gonna make money on the subscription, so you don't have to pay for email anymore. Uh same with Senfox. It's like it's mostly free and we're gonna be focusing we're focusing more on like YouTubers. Uh and podcasters. So it's like who are the audiences that aren't really emailing enough or don't know how to email for the specific type of audience.

I think a market for that is musicians, bands. Um, I think there's a huge like if you look at the Money where musicians make it is in concerts. And they're horrible at notifying you when they're coming into town. you have to serve a customer that I think you have an understanding of. I think a lot of these out there

Like, Oh yeah, let me go help musicians. I'm like, one, I don't know shit about musicians. I I'm learning to play piano, it's right here. Um But the point being is like I think we we It's not that you shouldn't go outside of your comfort zone. I just think that there's easier ways of success and I think more too many people make it too hard on themselves.

And it's just like go into your own problems or go into problems of people around you that you have easier access to. What about um have you been looking into AMP for email? Uh yeah, some of this stuff. I mean I also you know, there's also talk about hey email's dying and all this stuff. I'm like I don't know, people are still using it left and right. I I've seen AMP where it's like a little bit more of a dynamic and faster loading emails. I think the most important thing about email is not

necessarily the layouts and all that stuff. I think the most important thing is how do you build a relationship where people are expecting your email? Where like if I stopped emailing or the hustle didn't come They're like Something is wrong with my day. And until you get to that point you're you're probably worrying about the wrong problems.

Yeah, I mean that's the hard part, obviously. That's like how do you create just I mean, that's just about creating good shit. Um but I still think the whole amp thing is actually super interesting. Um what what I'm working on is a few ways to hack it.'Cause I'm I kinda am obsessed with like storytelling in email. And so what can you like If you think about what is a gif, to me a gif is a movable image. That has no sound.

Well, so is most of the video that you use on Instagram on Facebook. It's just audio or it's just video with no sound, like'cause a lot of times you don't even click. Um and so What I'm interested is how can I use AMP? to tell a story in an email in a video format or like all these other hacks like that. That's incredibly interesting to me. I think there's something there with that. Uh the thing that we've been doing with Senfox that we've been building in is there's kinda like

Two major components that I think are lacking in email. So number one is how do you build in like what the Hustle and Morning Brew have, which is build in referrals. So we've basically built that in so anyone can have their own referral engine within emails. By the way, that was a that that was a huge pain in the ass for us. No, no, so we built it and it works and I'm doing it on okay, so if you go to Sunfox.com slash Noah you can see how it looks or sign up for yourself and it's built in for free. I think the second thing that we're we're observing so what everyone wants is like How do I grow my audience and how do I send consistent emails? Because if you're not sending something weekly, you get forgotten and in this age of attention.

Uh we're all fighting for it. And so we built this thing called uh weekly newsletter template, or we call I think they're call branding it smart campaigns. And so the idea there is that we suck in all of your social information and we look at what's most popular, and then we basically just like cr we recommend like hey, here's the three things that you should email your audience. uh this week. And so that's what I do every Wednesday. I just pull my Two of my favorite things and one of someone else's to try to spread

joy and love and build relationships with people I don't know yet. How many people are working on Sunfox? I think There's two developers, one designer David is the GM

Maybe like six? So Uh Hay did you see hay long obviously you saw that. So for those who don't know, Hay dot com, it's a new email service. It's pretty neat. Uh I don't know if it's gonna be big, but I definitely I think it's cool that they are trying that. I think I I think it actually will be big, but That's irrelevant.

What that company did, it started by thirty seven signals. They have a team of like fifty people and they make money through Basecamp, I think, right? That's their main thing. And they've used all the they've used all those profits to fund hay, which I don't know how many engineers they had on that. Probably a lot actually. It's pretty robust already. W at my company what I'm trying to do is we're taking all of our profits and we're launching more stuff. Um, how are you figuring out

how much of your profit to allocate to these w side projects like Senfox? And like these new products. So The way that we've approached it recently is a little bit more structured. The way that the question that we ask is

Basically two things. One, can we make our money back within eighteen months? Got it, eighteen months. So will we make break even money back s eighteen months? And secondly, is it at least a seven figure decision? So is it at least a s if it's not a seven figure opportunity Uh we won't do it.

The reality is the m majority of the money is best spent into whatever's making the most money. From a capitalist standpoint. Some of that time stuff is short term versus long term. Uh and so with Senfox Right now the number we made our money back immediately'cause there's only one developer part time and one GM and then as it started becoming more profitable

It was like all right, well let's Keep let's make sure it's a seven figure business. Uh and now we're focusing on because we know it's seven figure opportunity, we're saying, how do we get this to be a you know hundred figure hundred million dollar business. Whatever. Whatever, yeah. But we're more focused right now on building our our our goal there is active audience. So I think one thing with company metrics is how do you align your customer success to your company metric success, your company North Star. So Percent Fox.

Right now we're at a million active audience, meaning of all of our Subscri uh customers. We reach a million active customers through them. And so if we can grow that number to three million, that's our goal this year. Then all of our customers is more successful and then we will be suc uh subsequently more successful.

So How long has it been how long have you had people working on it? Sunfox about two years. I mean what's fascinating about this just as a quick side note, Sam, is that There's a debate internally not debate, but there's discussion internally that if we would have spent all the money and time That we built on Senfox and King Sumo and Hall Drop and Meet Fam and all the things we've done just on App Sumo.

The main thing. Uh would it have been a hundred million dollar business today? And and the likelihood is yeah. I'm going through the same process where I'm like, Man, I got this cash cow and a lot of people listening, they also have the same thing where they have these companies, but like We're fucking degenerates and we can't not make shit. You know what I mean?

Well, our strength our greatest strengths are generally our greatest weaknesses, so our greatest strength for I don't know, I won't speak for you. My greatest strength is igniting. Like I go and start something and I'm like really quick and I'm really fast My greatest weakness is Is like consistency. I always think of it as like a I'm a great igniter, but I'm not a great consistent s source of fuel. And so you have to find that balance of

Who is your fuel? So for me, amen is fuel. David over at Sinfox is fuel. Uh, and then I can go focus on the igniting part. And I think that's where you can find success in life, which is what are you fucking amazing at? Just do that stuff. And it's hard because we've we feel guilty or we feel weak.

But it is finding the people that can compliment you on those other s other sides. But take another example, like like the two my two of my favorite examples that everyone knows is Netflix and Amazon. Netflix is worth two hundred billion dollars from One nine ninety nine a month subscription. So Amazon, on the other hand Is worth a trillion.

And they've got, uh, in terms of significant revenue streams probably like three or four. And so I don't think there there's many different ways of eating a Reese's peanut butter cup. Uh I think you have to kinda figure it out for yourself what style of business. So for me, with with mine, I literally I thought about this this morning. Might might my ambitions and and enjoyment and fulfillment come from like promoting dope stuff, which we do on App Sumo, sharing what I'm learning while doing that, which is happening on YouTube and my podcast. Uh No King Presents Podcast.

Uh and then three, making things that I want for myself which is Send Fox, and I'm like Can I just do this till I die? Or maybe I'll do this t if I can live forever. And I think that's what we're all we're all striving for. Can I ask you, uh I uh bl uh did a pod recently where I talked about delegating and hiring like a CEO and general managers. Can uh I've learned how to do this through reading a few books. I learned how to do this from talking to David Hauser.

who we're friends with. I learned how to do it through uh talking U indirectly like learning from you on how to do it. Like I I would talk to Amin, I would talk to you a little bit about it. I would talk to Neville. What was your process like for doing that? Because you have Yeah.

Three or four? How many G GMs do you have, or whatever you call them? I think there's three GMs right now. So there's Hall Drop. There's Apsumo and then there's um Sun Fox. David does Sun Fox and King Sumo. I think what's actually interesting taking a step back

How many CEOs do you think there are in Amazon? CEO title or or or job Just people who were CEOs in their own businesses that are now running divisions of Amazon. I don't know. What you Yeah, exactly.

And so the people that wanna start their own businesses, if you can figure out how to align their incentives and their motivation within your business, Is how you create a trillion dollar business. And so There's a bunch of examples of this, by the way. There's Alibaba, Rocket Internet has done this wonderfully. Sounds like you're doing it well. Who else has done it well? Amazon has done it well. Um there's way more where they ca uh a fa a a a company I'm obsessed with is Coke, uh Coke Family.

The Coke Industries. They've done this. I always call it cock, but I get corrected it is Coke. Who cares? Just call him Rich. The old white fox.

No, I I don't know if they're fucks, but I uh I think in terms of delegation and leadership, I actually think one of my superpowers is just like Ob observations of greatness. So here's something it's like who fucking cares about Noah I think what I would do as a listener And this is what I still do this day. I'm almost forty and I still do this. Any time you notice anything impressive, reach out to the person. That's it.

And over your lifetime figure out how the fuck do I get around that guy or girl? And I think that will lead you to And easier six chances of greatness. Uh,'cause it's a lot harder to like go out and try to like date and find people just from the ground up. It's much easier if you're like Man, like you know, the people I worked at Facebook honestly the best ever.

Literally the best ever. And so it's like oh shit, I need to figure out I haven't been able to keep around'em'cause we we had a falling out, obviously. But it's like all right, how do I be have more of that? So like Garrett, Garrett's the lead developer on Senfox. He built a WordPress plugin that I bought for like a hundred dollars. Like six, seven years ago.

And then I said, Hey, can I pay you like twenty five, thirty bucks an hour to fix it? And he was so impressive. And he did it for a year. And I told Chad my business partner, I was like, Dude, this guy is fucking Fire.

And I was like we just need to hire him full time to and let him do whatever he wants and pay him whatever he wants. And pretty much what we've done. Now he g works on Senfox and His output is remarkable. And so I think with GMs and things like that. I I'd say ultimately it's like you want to find the people that blow you away.

But those people basically You want the people who want to run their own businesses, and then two things. You wanna give them a a challenging goal and then you wanna give them some boundaries and then leave'em alone. And and that's the simplest and most complicated thing to do. Can uh can you elaborate on that more? Because so I've hired um a president of my company and it's pretty great because Like I get just all the shit I don't wanna do, uh he likes to do, so it works out well.

Um, where I struggle is I still like get into it and I get in his way, I'm like, hey, this sucks. You need to fix it this way, this way, this way, and this way. Are you doing that with your people? So let me correct you, they're not my people. The people who you work with. Yeah. I think that's a big difference.

Uh and I know it might sound like Oh well it's no, but I think I never say employees. I never say it's mine. Th is there the technicality of do I own more of the business than others? Yeah, but I think if you want people to be leaders, they have to lead. And they can't ask for permission to do it. Um

You know, a lot of times one of my favorite lines that I've been saying in the company lately is people ask me something, I'm like, Who's in charge? I say this a lot, I probably say this at least once a day. Who's in charge? They're like Me? I'm like yeah, damn right it's you. Don't fucking look at me. I don't know.

Uh, and so I think the more that you the way I've been looking at myself lately with the team is where's my excellence and where can I do the best job of coaching? And I h I hate when I've heard that,'cause when I've heard that I'm like, what does that mean? What are they coaching? Yeah, and so let me be specific. So with Dork, like I've hired a team of four people. To help build out.

uh my brand and to help spread the message of s overcoming fear and starting businesses. And they're these these people went through the gauntlet to get the job. I'm clear on where they want to go. I'm very clear on where they personally want to go. And so my job is to help them get what they want. And it's kinda like the Jim Run Rone quote. If I can help them get what they want

I can get what I want. And so I think I learned this when I got rejected from Microsoft as a job. I had an internship and you know when you intern you get the job guaranteed? You know about that? No. Most times when you intern, you get the job guaranteed. I was like the one of the few that didn't get it. It's like damn, I'm an underdog, man. I'm still fucking fighting.

And but I did learn something in the job interview that I've never forgotten. He's like, Here's the best way to lead. I'm like, tell me. And best way to coach. He's like You give them the football. You tell them where the end zone is, you say, Hey, here's the boundaries to get to the end zone.

How you want to score is up to you. And I think what I've learned really well over the past two years is I don't you don't want to be a seagull. You know the Siegel theory? No just we're just chirping at him.

Yeah, you come in shit and fly away. I was doing a lot of seagull theory for for a few years. I mean, is that your th your phrase? Yeah.

Oh no, all right, cool. Well, I didn't I don't want to be shitting on people and flying away. I think it's like how do you lean in, Cheryl Sandberg style. And step into these challenges and be 'Cause I think what I always admire is solution thinking. Right? Like am I coming and complaining? And am I bringing more problems or am I bringing more solutions? So in turn anyways, in terms of coaching, like with Aemon who's running App Sumo

Especially lately, I feel like more of an advisor in a very effective way. And I think it's a really fine line because you don't want resentment. So Amen wants to do this one thing recently. And I'm like Do I just Let him do everything and resent it?

Like oh fuck you, man, I totally disagree with you. Or do I say no, amen? Do this thing. You must do it my fucking way. It's the Noah Kagan way. My dad used to say this when I was a little kid. He's like, My way or the highway. I was like, dude, I am eight years old. Like I don't know what you want from me. And um I don't think it could be either way of those. I think it needs to be somewhere in the middle.

Where I don't want to feel resented. I don't resent me towards Amen. I don't want it to be a dictator. 'Cause then it the w the the the worst thing I think you could do is is hiring someone is demotivate them. That is probably like one of the dirtiest things you could ever do to anyone is like demo and I've done that twice to Aemon and Chad.

And they both said it to me and I I've I felt really bad about it. And I felt really like I I don't want them working for me. I don't want them I want them waking up thinking about it and loving it, which is what you want from a lot of people in the team. And so I think with Aemon ultimately It's saying like

How can I like a lot of times we have goals, he has boundaries, budgets. And then the question I ask is how can I be most helpful? And so really kind of coming from that approach,'cause at the end of the day, if he's driving the results, I don't give a fuck how he plays the game. At the end of the day, as long as the score's looking good and it's within the boundaries. So Sean is joining us now.

Go ahead, Sean. I think you have s I'm I'm a student at the moment. Yeah. First, what's up, Noah. Uh sorry for joining late. I've been following your blog for a long time. I remember you you wrote a bunch of shit that was like Uh you know, I walked away from a hundred million bucks or whatever it was. I didn't walk away, I got fired, but yes. Uh but I and I've pointed to a bunch of your tools and so I the I just want to pause for a second and say

One of the ways I got good at marketing is by stealing your shit. And uh if somebody out there wants to get good at marketing, especially content marketing, go read the stuff about how you built Mint and you know, the just how you built your own personal brand. Just go observe the meta of what you were doing. Look at some of the spreadsheets that you linked out, um, that shit's actually pretty useful. And there's like a fine line usually between like y I always have this like big skepticism when somebody spends so much of their time telling me how to do something. I'm like, well, how much of that t how much of your time are you actually spending doing that thing? Are you even are you one of those people who you get rich teaching other people to be rich type of thing? Um and you know the thing I liked about you and and a few others that we we we vouch for on this podcast is

No, there's some people who actually have done it. They've actually grown shit from scratch to scale several times. They've felt they've probably fallen over and failed a couple times. Um, but they just like to talk. They like to share, um, and they like the feedback loop of sharing out that knowledge and those experiences and they're legit. And so I would say like go back, go to the archive. I don't I haven't read any of your new stuff, but go read the archive, the OG shit,'cause it was really good. Thanks, brother. Yeah, I mean I think one of the things I've doing recently in terms of marketing I think overall, you know, when I fill out um When I fill out applications, like I was filling out I'm signed up for relationship therapy start next week.

She's like, What's my occupation? And I always write engineer. 'Cause that's what I always dreamed of being. But I'm not I don't think I'm smart enough. So I faced it this w when I was filling it out I deleted that and I was like Marketer.

Marketing always seems to be like the therapy starts here. You wrote engineer, you're not an engineer. What okay, let's forget your relationship. So anyways, I think what I've accepted, it's not that I've ever been a marketer. I've just I'm a promoter of of greatness. And I'm looking for it and I'm sharing it and I'm exploring it in myself. I think the thing that I've done recently that it's a simp it's marketing one oh one. Uh, is with my YouTube, that's that's been like our big focus. So I think the two th there's a few things in marketing. I'll say three things. Uh that I think are simplest simplest. You know that's not real world, but Uh, number one, how about just singular goal? Facebook did it, appsumo.com has done it, and I think with even recently with my Dork World. And helping people overcome fear and and start businesses. I'm kind of like having a bunch of goals. I'm like, here's our TikTok goal, here's our Instagram goal, here's our email list goal, here's our organic traffic goal, here's this go. I'm like What is our most important goal?

And I was like, just even pick one for some period of time. And so I think I've come into that realization like let's just pick YouTube And just be okay with that. And and guess what? That'll rise all other ships. So don't be ignorant of ignor ignorant of those other ones, but just focus on one.

Second thing is that as I was doing a lot of this content recently, which has gotten me really fulfilled. And it's it feels good, feels great. On YouTube or okay dork.com. Mostly YouTube. Mostly in YouTube world. Um The second thing that's been most critical and this is really hard because everyone does says they do this or wants to do this but doesn't

Who Who is my audience? Who is the audience that I really want to be helping? ' On one hand, I wanna I wanna connect with like nine figure CEOs and ten figure CEOs. And I you know, I actually don't think there's a lot of content of how to go from seven to eight or eight to nine and I can share how we do it.

But that audience is really small and they don't really need as much help. And so we've realized like our audience is dudes. Twenty five to forty. that have tried to start a business that haven't been successful, that are afraid of failing. And need a little bit of help. And so I think the second part of marketing that I've gotten revisiting is who am I really trying to talk to?

And what are the words? So like here's some words that we've even identified that our audience Resonates with rat race. Freedom. So I'm like Really?

All right. Self doubt. So those are some of the things that I'm thinking about. And then the third part that we're we're thinking I think that's applicable for every business is what is your unique strategy of success? Like So with that we have two parts. One, what's our core messages that we're

This is our unique like bread and butter that you will know. Ram I was talking with Ramit about this and he's like what did the m you have so many messages, just pick three. So I was like all right, challenges to overcome fear. Million dollar weekend and behind the scenes of an eight figure company. That's the three that we're gonna do, and that's it. Uh and then the the second part of the Wait, say that again. So those three are the three what?

So basically let's take a step back. So one, what's your goal? Pick one goal. Number two, who is your customer? Number three, what is your core messages? That people know you for. So for me, those are the three that I'm gonna be known for. challenges, which I always tell people to do the coffee challenge, which is take get ask for ten percent off when you buy coffee. You're gonna be afraid, you're gonna learn about yourself and you're gonna grow.

Secondly, is behind the scenes of an A figure company. So like how do you like that there's not a lot of people that have that experience and I can do that. And the third part. Is how do you actually get a million dollar business or a hundred dollar you know, a million dollar business start in a weekend, which I've done many, many times and I I can share which is unique. And then the the last part of this marketing equation that I think I'm exploring and revisiting around all these things. Is what is my unique strategy or what is my strategy of doing that? I think where I've been very successful is I just do a lot of stuff.

And eventually something works. But I think I will be even more successful slowing down. being a little more thought with these things. And so our unique strategy lately Has been Do the fast stuff, but on lower risk items. So basically tweet and Instagram and LinkedIn post fucking everything.

Like throw it a all out there unlimitedly. Uh and then based on what works. Aligning to our core messages, that's what we'll go deeper in. That's what we'll write a blog post about. That's what we'll do an interview about. That's what we will do uh a YouTube video about. And so It's just having a higher likelihood of home runs.

Interesting. I I'm curious. So So how old are you now? You said you you're almost forty? I look and feel thirty two. But I'd say I'm I'm about in physicality in in our society thirty eight. Not physicality in our

Whatever traditions of thirty eight. Okay, cool. Um but human years. I am thirty two and I look and feel thirty eight. So I'm trying to go the other way. Um so I would love. So if you were twenty one again Um twenty one, no network, no name brand.

Um you're starting up from scratch. Uh and you don't have to go the same pathway you went. Um I'm curious You know, if you had the luxury of picking any path now that you know of so many more paths than you probably knew about when you were twenty one What path would you go down? Honestly, I think I copy my path. Which which would be what? So you're twenty one, what do you do?

I'll tell you exactly what I did. I didn't know what the fuck to do. So I went and tried a bunch of stuff out to figure out what to do. I think the only I think one question is what delta would I have chosen and I'll tell you exactly what that was. So

At twenty one, I didn't know I didn't even know what a BS was. I got it I got it from Berkeley. I was like, oh Bachelor Science is cool. I everyone kind of follows a stream. Right? Like when you graduate from college, which I I think less and less is becoming important. Everyone's oh get a job, go to Intel, go to wherever And I was like Okay, I guess that's what everyone's doing. But I've always wanted to start my own company. I just didn't know what to do.

And so I think the two things that I did really well when I had that day job at Intel was that I use that as my investor and the two things I'd recommend is that I started a lot of businesses. So if you're like I don't have any idea. Two things you can do. One go to sinfox.com. And start a newsletter and send an email once a week for three hundred and sixty five days or for fifty two weeks. That's number one. Or number two, go on YouTube, take the Ryan Holiday challenge and post a video on YouTube for thirty days.

Start there. The second thing that I did is that I connected with people very aggressively and I asked anyone I knew For anyone that they knew that was really smart. That's how I met Tim Ferriss, that's how I met Orrin Hoffman, Dave McClure. James Hong, Max Levchin, Rameet Sethi. I basically put on events. I hosted lunches

I organized conferences. I didn't know anyone. But I wanted to bring smart people together. So if you don't know any smart people, find one smart person and say, Hey You should meet this smart person and then just go and hang out with both of them. Guy and girl, and guess what, you can do it on Zoom if you're in a remote country. Or if you don't have any connections, I think one of the ones I've really observed lately, every person I've hired

That's been the most impressive. has done two things. They've offered something for free to a value that I've wanted. Um And they did it without asking. And those people have been the most impressive. And guess what? Now they're like, Hey, I wanna meet this person, I wanna do this thing, I wanna grow here. I'm like

That most of them are now working with me. Uh and so I think I would have that was something very early on I was very aggressive on meeting people and just trying to build my brand. In terms of career I I think the two thing one thing I did very well is I was really great about following my curiosity and things I was really excited about. Uh, so I really loved Facebook and I really loved Mint and I was like, I'll do whatever it takes to work there.

Um, I think the only difference I would have chosen is find someone ten to twenty years ahead of me. that I think is doing the things I would like to do in ten twenty years and be obsessed or aggressive in figuring out how to make them excited to want to be a part of my life. So I had one guy, Doug Hirsch, who was my boss at Facebook. And it didn't really work out as well for as a mentorship, but it's nice'cause like you can say, Oh, that's how you do a relationship. Oh, that's how you do a career.

Uh. And it'll shortcut it. You just have to figure out the real most important thing is how do you get them to give a fuck about you? And the best way to do that is help them with whatever things they're working on. You wanna hear something crazy, Sean? I don't know if you know this, but I I don't know if Noah knows it. But I launched my I created my so my company, which is a

It's uh it's an okay Company. It's been good for me. It started because uh Noah had a blog post about organizing conferences. And I was like I w w what what was it called?

It was called like How I Made How I Made Ninety K hosting a Conference or something. Was that it, Noah? Mm-hmm. I made a quarter million dollars in conferences.'Cause I I didn't know I was gonna make money doing'em. Yeah, so I saw that and I was like Well, I I had a book club at the time and I was like, Well, I've been meeting I've been hosting these meetups, but I don't make any money from it. I should like make money off this thing. And so I started my company uh and I've made millions of dollars personally off conferences because of that blog post. And more importantly, or maybe not more importantly, I've met I've met actually all three people on this call

And most of my friends and co workers. Because of that blog post? Because of that blog post. I met Neville because of that blog post. Neville, the best man my wedding, I met because of that. Good for you. Um So so what you're describing of what you would do and how basically you described like hosting events and which is similar in the same vein as posting content. I did the same thing and it made me millions of dollars and it I it met all my best friends that way. Awesome.

I mean I think the only other thing that I was doing at the time that I think everyone should do. So number one, build your brand in some way, even if you're not trying to be a personal brand. I think practicing writing is a skill you can use in sales, you can use in development, you can use in design, you can use in Almost literally forever. Uh I think the connection's very valuable. Literally probably the reason I'm a multi millionaire is because I've been I've been able to meet and help people.

And connect people. Connecting and meeting. But the third thing was that I was starting a lot of businesses. And I think what's beautiful is if especially earlier in your life, your cost of living is so damn low. And my cost of living still damn low because I'm I haven't grown up in some ways.

And I'm maturing in certain ways. Uh that it's so low that you should take a lot of risk. very early on in trying a lot of things out. So like When I was working at Intel, I was doing Uh

This college consulting. I did a thing called NinjaCard dot com. I was putting on these conferences that I charge for And then I was working at Mint, I started doing the Facebook apps. Like I did all these games and I started making a lot of money. But now I was working at morning, I was working on weekends, I was working at lunch, I was working at nights. Uh, I was working I was I kept going and I kept trying a lot of different and eventually after probably two and a half, three years Good in O four and three year three years later, my side hustle finally became my main hustle.

Did any of those Like I have uh we actually have a good friend Encore I don't know if you know him Sean, but uh me and N Noah do who did the same thing about the online uh he did like the Facebook apps and Facebook games. And when I think of that shit I'm like, dude, that is just some scammy get rich quick shit. Uh is that an accurate assessment of th what those were in'cause I I was a little bit I was too young to be doing that shit in two thousand and ten or whenever it became popular or I wasn't interested in the internet. Was that is that an accurate

Assessment of what those were. Uh I think what's interesting is like how do you become a part I think what's more interesting about the Facebook games, besides whatever people spam or not spam. Is like how do you be around the tidal waves? So I think where I've been very fortunate and lucky is that in my career Either I'm an ambulance chaser or I'm like a visionary or I'm maybe a little bit of both. Where like I was in the Facebook game world, I was in personal finance world, I was in social networking world.

I was in Sass world with Sumo, I was in e commerce world with, you know, some of a Shopify. And lately I'm back in content world. And I think what's been the beautiful part about that You know, and in app sumo, I've been in the software world, which has been amazing. Uh, I think the the amazing part about that is that it's Opened up a world where my life is more rich.

Not rich even monetarily, just like Rich. Like fulfilling because of all these really cool people I've gotten to connect with. Like I gotta meet this guy Nick Niman. And I'm gonna talk with him on Friday about videos.

And then I've got to meet Um This guy Javier Mercedes, who lives in Austin, who came over and showed me how lighting, like okay, look, let's switch lighting here. Let's switch lighting here. And uh I think what's amazing is try to figure out Which category is gonna either be big

Or which category you're interested in and then how to interject yourself in that conversation. So you're like, well no, I'm not a developer. I don't have any commerce products to start. Guess what? Start a fucking YouTube channel reviewing those products. Or start an Instagram account where each day you just post, Hey, here's my favorite e commerce product today, here's why. Or start a newsletter on Sunfox.com like hey here's my weekly e commerce product of the week and email that company saying, Hey, I just promoted you this week. One of the easiest things that anyone, especially early on, can do is flatter people. J legitimately, don't just bullshit.'Cause it's obvious.

But just flatter. Hey, I love your stuff. That's a easy way to open the door and then do what you can to start helping people. And so I I I think with I've been lucky and intentional about what am I curious about and what's becoming more popular and How can I connect with people that are inspiring me? I would also say like Sam, I I wouldn't call those that that Facebook game era because

Uh there's a whole bunch of other friends that we have that started or like kind of caught their first big wave on when Facebook platform opened up, like the very first episode of this podcast, Sully That's how he caught his big wave was he made a Facebook app called superlatives and it was about, you know, saying which of your friends is most likely to end up in jail. Or stuff goofy stuff like that. Or, you know, uh I know some of the lollapse guys listen to this. And they were you know. They were, you know, the fastest growing company in the world at the time, probably. Like, you know

Oh my God, you know, you launch a product and get to 10 million users in a day. And that just breaks your mental model of the world. And so I think two things. A, you're right, that the people who go there were the type of people that sniffed out interesting spaces before they're proven out. So if you're that type of person, you're gonna end up in a lot of those types of situations. The second is you get this crash course on hypergrowth. and marketing in a way that's like You can't learn like this guy who um the guy who sold TBH to Facebook recently. Um, she tweeted this thing out yesterday that was like first time social app founder is like, Oh, we're gonna build a platform for intellectual conversations. It's like, you know, I get twenty three users and five percent retention.

And then he's like, by the fifth year, that same founder's like All right, let's just have people vote on who's hot and it's like result ten million users, forty percent retention. It's like you know, um, is very true. It's like Uh the only way to really ever get good is by putting yourself out there. So when you're saying go start a YouTube channel Or somebody goes and has to build a Facebook app and you see that the apps that grow are the ones that tap into people's core needs. Like they wanna know about their friends. They wanna take quizzes themselves and learn you know Goofy personality quizzes.

And it's the person on the sidelines who's like, Oh, all that stuff's dumb. And what they're missing is that they don't sort of figure out You know, at the end of the day, you get rewarded for giving people what they want, not what you want people to want. And then the second thing is that if you really want to get good at anything, you gotta be in like the eye of the storm. And these new platforms are these areas where there's a lot of growth, a lot of action happening. That's where you sharpen your skill. So y you know, you might not have ever made money Off the Facebook games, right? Like you got a bunch of gr users and maybe money. Well you might have made money.'Cause I think sometimes when you're young, you're like, Well, I want to make money off this person. It's like, Well, maybe there's a lot more long term dividends by just trying to focus on what you can learn.

But but the r but also wouldn't you say, like I've seen this in my life, sounds like you were w and the same were It's when you're trying to make money that you end up learning because you're trying to do something hard and you ha you learn the hard way, like what actually works and what doesn't, versus if you just say, I want to learn, a lot of times people take a very sort of passive or intellectual approach to it. Now That's different than saying I wanna make money so I take this job at Intel that pays me a guaranteed six figures or whatever it is.

You may not learn the most doing that path because you're not actually challenging yourself, uh, in the same way. But I think the two things I would highlight there is that I think there's passion or interest or curiosity and then I think there's opportunity. And I think I've I've chased opportunities to make money, which have been fleeting. They've been profitable, but fleeting. And I think when you're in your twenties you should do those. Frankly, you should just do the things that are like hot and exciting if you think you want to make money. And then in your thirties you start reflecting more like, wow, mortality is real.

What's really important. And I think you'll come back to finding How do I work on problems and things that I want created for in my own world? And for you, that's what? That's helping people sort of overcome their fears to start businesses? Is that the or is it one step removed from that? No, it's exactly that. It's like I wanna be on the ground level helping people overcome fears, start businesses and and marketing in businesses. I I love seeing The underdog succeed. I love seeing like this guy Ali Abdall is a popular YouTuber. Or I love seeing p companies like Meat Fox who got promote on App Sumo and now they have a business around it. Uh or a phone wagon is a popular one today for doing phone calls and that guy Ali, he's great. He's a I think he listens to this podcast, but he's a a doctor, right? He's a doctor YouTuber or is that impressive. He's like, you know, people are like I don't have enough time. This guy's a full time professional doctor making three high quality YouTube videos every week.

And he engages an audience and he's put you know, he's just very genuine. I I really enjoy Can you spell his name? A L I A B D. A A L

You know, and I think it's interesting is that you have to think about on the reverse of that, how do you become someone that people want to meet? How do you make things or do things that others want to connect with? And I think we're like, Oh, I'll just do stuff and hope hope it happens. This guy looks amazing. I just love the w like I just did a quick Google Uh

Dude's dope, dude is just dope. I love this guy. He's just like I found him because he blogged like hey, here's some cool shit I found this week and our podcast was in it. And so I was like, Okay, who's this guy who's giving us a shout? And then I checked out his YouTube channel and I was like, Wait, this guy's amazing. Well, I think that's something that even in my newsletter every week now, we have an a section where we promote other people. I think the more that you can go and this is one of those things that's like stupid obvious, but no one does it. It's like go help a bunch of other people. And there's a good chance that you'll be able to connect and and get a lot of things you want. Like the quote that I heard yesterday that was like really powerful to me is um It was like Your rewards in life will be exact proportion to your contribution.

That's interesting. I don't know if it's true though, because I feel like I you can definitely make money by like some bullshit Facebook app. You know what I mean? But I definitely think it's the way to live by.

But can can I bring something up within the last three minutes or so. Four weeks ago or three weeks ago, Sean told me about a book called Happy Body. Um And I Told I was with Neville and Noah.

last week or two weeks ago and I was like, Yeah, I Sean told me about this book, I'm gonna buy it. And Neville was like, Oh, I have it uh upstairs, let me go grab it for you. He gave it to me. Then he gave it and then Noah was like wait, what's this book? And I think he ended up buying it. I've been doing those exercises in that book, I feel great. Have you guys been doing that? So basically, I just got the book yesterday, so I have no idea. What you're talking about. Basically I'm what I'm realizing in is uh I

on this podcast said I had scoliosis and I had like thirty or forty people reach out to me say they also have scoliosis. And so then I started doing this book to help fix it. It's been awesome. I my back feels so much better. You got ha does your back feel better, Sean? I never had back pain, so I w it's not my I wasn't doing it for that. I just

Like I read the philosophy and I was like, Oh, I vibe with this. Like this makes sense to me. I don't feel like I'm being sold to I think this this seems like one of those like fundamental truths about the way your body works and how you should like sort of tune it. And so I started to like it. Um, but I haven't been like doing all of those exercise. I've been swimming a bunch, but like I haven't been doing those exercises in there. But yeah, if your b if your back hurts, give it a shot. You know, like back pain is one of those like you know, quality of life ruiners if you have it. And so, you know, you just gotta try fucking everything if you have back pain. Well, Noah was talking about getting older and trying to feel younger and before this podcast he took his shirt off and showed me his body and uh That's what we do. That's what real friends do. But golly, this thing has totally made a difference.

Uh we aren't getting I'm not getting paid to say this, but that shit's awesome. Alright, so Noah, let's ask you then what has been the the best either decision, purchase, change uh like that has lifted your quality of life on a day to day basis that you've done, you know, in the that comes to mind, recent memory. Uh, I think there's probably about th I'll say three, and then I I gotta jump off. So number one, buying my Tesla. I think it's not about the Tesla, but I think it's about

I think I uh we're conditioned that like in materialism is evil. And I think it's more about Is there ways that we could use money to make our lives better? So I think that's been really f powerful for me to like wow really enjoy something versus getting the cheaper like I like Miadas and I have a Miata in the backyard.

But it's like nice to have something amazing. And I wonder what else in my life gonna have that would be amazing. And that I can also be amazing.'Cause I think it's something to say about what does your stuff say about you. Think the second thing I would think about Is journaling.

Right. So I've been using Bear app. I think one of the bus you guys asked for three business opportunities. One of them is technology advisor. There's so much new tech, new cameras, new everything. Like I think you can go make a lot of money. coaching people and smell bear bare app bare dot app or bear app notes. I've really enjoyed every I literally journal five days a week. Um, and it's been really helpful to understand myself better and learn my interests and motivations and fears and all this stuff. And then Th that those two have definitely been powerful. I'm trying to think of the third thing that's really and I think the third thing that for me has really w changed my life is

Observing Uh where I'm living. And how much my space affects my energy. So I've been renting Airbnbs and I'm gonna be moving'cause I'm like Uh you know, there's something there about your space and how much it can impact you professionally and personally.

Guys, I gotta go. I love you guys. Appsima.com. Thank you. Sean, let's stay on. But Noah, uh, let's come back again and actually talk about some business stuff. Because this is awesome. And I also want to do the other thing. Thank you, have a good day. All right, got you too. See ya. Thanks, Sean. Bye. You wanna talk about

Anything Noah said, Sean? Uh, you know, a lot of it was really relevant to me because I think the things he's talking about like the thing he spent like I don't know fifteen years doing now is building up this audience, this uh like putting out great content that's gonna help people and like distills down his wisdom like okay, if I learn something

the act of me trying to teach it to somebody else will help me learn it better. I think that's the vibe I get from him. That's what I want to do. That's what I find most enjoyable in my life anyways. So personally I thought that stuff was interesting. If you're not trying to be a content creator, I don't know how useful that part will be for people, but honestly these are pretty universal like Just like tactics to get shit done and get shit out there. Um And like be an action person. And so yeah, I like I like his message around being an action person. I wish we had gone into ideas because I think he is a kind of a idea starter, like he said.

I'll actually bring up something that he mentioned that is not related to any of this help help stuff, which I enjoy. But uh so he talked about his space and buying a nice car. So I think uh I just spent three weeks in living in Austin, I think I'm gonna uh give up my place in San Francisco and I'm gonna spend um four to eight weeks in different cities. And see what happens. So I'm gonna buy a car. I don't know what type of car I should buy, but I'm gonna buy a nice car and I'm gonna

Drive all over the country. Yeah, that's great. I uh I'm all I'm all for it. I want to ask your opinion on that, but also to the listeners, if you want to rent my apartment, I'll give it to you for six months. It's four K a month. I live in Glen Park. It's a lovely neighborhood.

And it's furnished and I have a gym here, a home gym. A really nice one. So y uh message me on Twitter if you want to rent it. Otherwise I'm gonna give it up and I don't want to. Dude, you should charge a premium. This is rent sleep in Sam Parr's bed for eight K a month, actually. You know, get that good good juju. Yeah, no There is no pre m maybe I should. Fuck. I just blew my Yeah. He's willing to accept four, guys. He's willing to accept four.

Yeah. I just blew my No, I I wasn't gonna make money f on it. I just you just covered the expenses. Um I Austin's amazing. More people should

I don't know what sometimes I'm like. It's way better there. So a couple of years ago I made a decision to do something similar, uh where I was like I was sitting in San Francisco and I was like why am I just here all the time? Like life is so big, the world is so big, and so um

So I told my uh girlfriend at the time and I was like, Let's go Uh, you know, now my wife, but at the time we were just dating, I think And I was like, let's go live in South America for the next six weeks. Um and like I'll just work from there. But like let's just go pick a cool city that we are not gonna live in long term. I don't wanna move But I want to go live there.

And I was like, wait a minute, I can live there without moving. And the way that San Francisco works is like an arbitrage where you can Airbnb your house. or your apartment and you could make more you could literally live for free somewhere else in the world. You know, get a free vacation. So that's what I did. I went for five or six weeks Uh we lived in Buenos Aires, Argentina And um

And we just live there like a local, not like or not exactly like a local, kinda like a expat. But it was better than trap it wasn't a vacation. It wasn't like go sightsee, take a bunch of photos, and leave after five days. It was like Okay, we're gonna live here. Like, what's the coffee shop we should go to? How do we get groceries? Uh, and like that was just a way better experience. I was like, I'm gonna do this every year. Um, but then one year was like, Oh, we're getting married and then I had a kid and now I don't know when I'm gonna do it.

So Wait, but you did do it. I did do it. For one year and I plan to do it again n this year, now that uh my my child is a little bit older, I think we can go do it now'cause she's almost a year old. So

I'll do it again. So my logic is I'm only gonna go to places I can drive to For two reasons. One, corona. And two, my dog who I I consider part of my family. I he's old and um I would not want to leave him behind and uh I don't know if you can bring a dog you could probably bring a dog to some European countries, but like you in a lot of places they have like a three week quarantine thing. You could get to Canada, you could get to Mexico, that's cool. Well so

I would move to Mexico City in a heartbeat. Mike have you been there? Uh, I've never been, but everybody who I know says the same thing. It's like amazing. It's amazing. Like I remember I was there when Trump was just getting elected and he was talking about the wall and I I was in like a hipster neighborhood and I asked my barber, I go, What do you think about this Trump guy talking about this wall? He goes, I don't give a fuck about what he says, like I w he goes, Yeah, build the wall. That will keep you guys from coming in. This is amazing here. I'm we're not trying to go to America and I was like, Oh man, you've just broken all these stupid stereotypes I've had in my head. Thank you. So and and so

Yeah, they're gonna need a wall to keep me out of Mexico City because that place is lovely. So I would totally wanna live there. Um, the Mexicans were awesome people. I love the neighborhoods. But Corona.

I'm nervous about Corona at the moment. Yeah, Corona and before this it was uh what's it called? Zika. Uh, which like m people didn't really care about, but Zika's scary as shit, especially if you're like we were gonna have a kid, we knew that and Zika like Basically you can become a carrier for a year or so and pass it to your baby. So that was like a scary thing. So that's w that killed it one year. And now Corona, it's like I don't know when I'm gonna do it, but I'm gonna do it. I think I'm gonna do Canada because

I trust the Canadians around Corona. Where? Vancouver? Vancouver, somewhere remote. Who knows? 'Cause like but like why would you do remote Canada when it's like the same shit as like Montana, isn't it? I also don't uh I I also would go to Montana. Man Montana's cool too, but uh you know, I don't I don't mind that. That's a change of pace.

What car should I buy? Should I do this in a F one fifty truck. Should I do this in a Subaru that I like put off road tires on? What should I buy? I thought about a Tesla. Well, that doesn't come out till two thousand twenty one, and I want to leave in August. You could do uh you could do the Tesla SEV or y you could do the F one fifty, I think that would be hilarious. Uh, although that's kinda cramped and not the not the most ideal. Why not do it? No, an F one fifty is four door. You can get a four door at f uh but a cyber tr or uh Tesla would be fucking horrible, wouldn't it, for a three thousand mile

Trip. Why? 'Cause like When you have to Pull over every

Every Three hundred miles for an hour? Uh, the superchargers are pretty fast and it goes like I think the the new ones or whatever go like six hundred miles or something crazy. It's interesting. Maybe I would do that.

Yeah, do it definitely do it in something that Is not your usual Well that's what Noah said, that inspired me. I was like I'm not gonna penny pitch, I'm gonna buy the nice shit that I want. Yeah, you're just waiting for you're just waiting for somebody to be like, You know what's cool? Buying cool shit. That's right, that resonated with me too. I'm always doing like Penny pitchin' shit.

Um so I need to step that up. Um You wanna go over anything else? Uh y I have a bunch of ideas that I added to the thing, but I feel like we should just do uh like an episode about it, like a full episode uh. About those ideas. So I think we should keep this one kind of NOAA

And then um Yeah, I have a punch, but it would be like an hour. Okay, I have a bunch too. They range from interactive email To uh I have a bunch of ideas around privacy stuff. That uh fascinate me a ton. And uh Corona stuff. Someone's gotta create the organic

label but for like is your restaurant corona clean? Oh yeah, yeah, like the um It's like the you know, the health score, but it like this I'm specifically branded around Corona hygiene. Yeah, so that's what I'm gonna bring up. What are you gonna bring up? Okay, I'm just gonna read you some of my quick uh notes that I had here. Uh one call is called Scott Galloway being super wrong.

Another one is I know exactly where you're going with that and I'm very interested. Another one is scams that I found interesting. Uh and I have four examples of scams that I found interesting. Another one is WikiLeaks for creeps because uh Crystalia turned out to be a creep. Um

And then another one is Uh how the thirty seven signals guys are marketing their new thing, Hay.com. I think it's pretty interesting how they're going about that. And then I have a bunch of startup ideas. Um that are around one's around baseball cards, one's around Yeah, we got a bunch of ideas. So we um we got a lot to come.

Great. I am am interested in all those, particularly the Scott Galloway one and the Hay dot com thing, which I think is actually gonna be a hu Huge business. I just downloaded it. Uh have you used it?

No. Alright, I'll tell you if you didn't like superhuman, you may not like this either, but uh I just downloaded. Uh uh thumbs up or thumbs down? I'm like ten minutes into the onboarding, but I'm also like thumbs down so far. But I really like those guys. Um so I'm like just let me try it actually. I I wouldn't say I've given it a fair shake yet, but The onboarding so far I'm not That's all.

I'm in the same boat, but I understand why many people will like it. Right. Uh okay, we should we should uh jet here. Leave us a review, tell us what you think, tweet at us, whatever. We'll talk to you all soon.

What you see above is a preview of the first minutes. One unlock costs 3 credits and covers this episode forever: full segment and word-level timestamps on this page, plus .txt, .srt, .vtt and word-level JSON downloads, as many times as you like.