Transcript

Rapid Response: Supporting Palestinian builders versus destroyers, w/Kind’s Daniel Lubetzky

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The last Ten days have been very, very, very hard. I've been sleeping four or five hours a day. as a son of a Holocaust survivor to see people marching and saying As the Jews, I take that very personally.

My daughter came to me two days ago, and she said daddy I understand that you're trying to Help your friends in the Middle East, your Palestinian and Israeli colleagues, but You're not smiling anymore. And it just

Made me remember that I cannot let them diminish me. I'm gonna choose to laugh, I'm gonna choose to live, I'm gonna choose to build, I'm gonna choose to build bridges. And particularly now that there's so much darkness, I'm gonna choose to be a light. And I want everybody that's listening to you today to choose to be a light with me, to reach out to the other and and not allow the terrorists. A victory.

'Cause they wanna divide us. That's Daniel Lubetsky, the founder of Kind Snacks, and a longtime advocate of using business to foster peace between Israelis and Palestinians. I'm Bob Safian, former editor of Fast Company, founder of the Flux Group, and host of Masters of Scale Rapid Response. I wanted to talk with Daniel because he has deep, long-standing relationships within both the Israeli and Palestinian business communities. He's been working to help colleagues evacuate from danger in Gaza, only to have their exit blocked by Hamas.

Daniel's father was a Holocaust survivor, so he sees the conflict in Israel from a distinctive and personal perspective. He notes a stark delineation between Palestinians and those in Hamas and And he calls for renewed focus on the builders in the Palestinian community who can forge a better future. He also calls on business leaders in America and around the world to take a full throated stand in these difficult times. It's a passionate, heartfelt message, and one that any business person should think about hard.

In contemplating their priorities And the future they're trying to create. Let's listen in. I'm Bob Safian. I'm here with Daniel Lebetsky, the founder of Kind Snacks, who's been working to bridge common ground between Israelis and Palestinians. through the one voice movement and other initiatives.

Daniel, thanks for joining us. Thank you Bob. So the last two weeks have seen a sequence of events in Israel and in Gaza. Threatened to spin out of control. You've dedicated

Many years to try soothing tensions in the region. Must be A challenging moment for you. My father was in a concentration camp in Dachau, so Even in spite of hearing of the atrocities that the nazzis Did

Other than with ISIS. An Al Qaeda I cannot think of People that did such horrible atrocities stealing children and taking them to Gaza. Entire families burnt.

The goal Of terrorists. Is To divide destroy

And diminish. They don't just want to divide Israelis versus Palestinians. They aim to literally divide civilization you know the goal of Hamas із not to replace Israel with the Palestinian authority.

Their goal is an Islamic caliphate. all over the Middle East to replace Egypt and Saudi Arabia and Jordan and all other Arab countries. with the most repressive of islamic regimes That is not the Islamic rule of all my Muslim friends, of which I have thousands, it's the most

repressive form that all of my Muslim friends would reject. If you go to my channels, you can look at interviews of the Hamas people in their own words telling you that they don't care about dying and they don't care about killing and they don't care if Palestinian people die because they're all gonna go ascend to what they perceive as Their form of heaven. You have colleagues in Israel, in Gaza, in the West Bank.

What are you hearing from them? I've been working in this space For Over thirty years. People know me as a founder of Kind, I'm very proud of that, but

Well before kind existed, I started up company my first company called Peaceworks right after law school. to use business to bring neighbors together, to use business to bring Israelis, Palestinians, Jordanians, Egyptians, Turks, to trade with one another and use trade asa force for

humanizing one another, and then to use vested economic interests to cement and deepen human relations between All people's А ден а ко фаунде а мувмент колвось. with a friend of mine named Mohammed Darushe. A Palestinian Moslem

citizen of Israel. To amplify the voice of moderates. that want to break the shackles of violent extremism. And build a better future for all of the people of the region.

And uh Bob Mohammed's cousin, a Moslim nurse. Was

Діс Піс Мюзик Фестиво Was slaughtered by the terrorists. And They Israeli chairman of Darkano, which is an offshot of the one voice movement on the Israeli side.

Is son Yaron was also killed by terrorists. Jonathan, the nephew of our other prior chairman, was also killed by terrorists. And here we have Muslims and Jews Killed by terrorists. destroyers versus builders. The terrorists are the destroyers and these are builders.

M Djuiš Palestinian And Israeli. I want to build a better future for the It breaks my heart.

We have staff in Gaza тара trying to escape. Gaza and Аут пархамаса зблокт.

All X. Dev bombed roads, they block roads. This is from our Palestinian staff in Gaza that are telling us they're not able to get out because Hamas will not let them Evacuate. And

We've evacuated Palestinian staff from Gaza in the Threaten their lives. Uh one of them is a Zaldine Masri who now lives here in the United States and works with us.

Hamas. Put Rocket launchers in his house. This was in a prior conflict. When they put rocket launchers in somebody's home, what that means is that that home is gonna be destroyed. Cause they throw the rockets, then the Israeli defense forces

tries to destroy the rockets and that destroy the house of these innocent civilians. Now after this massacre. They're continuing to throw rockets at Israel. I cannot imagine how. This conflict ends without dismantling The terrorist Hamas infrastructure.

I'm not an Israeli I'm a confused Mexican Jew, very passionate to be an American and I'm very passionate to have Countless friendships with Palestinians, with Muslims, with Arabs that I've built over the last thirty years. It's gonna be very painful, but I don't

a way to build Without first dismantling the Hamas infrastructure. Your

Efforts have always been around supporting and encouraging moderates To have support. And it sounds like for you for your colleagues in Israel and in Gaza. It's harder to be moderate.

Than it was. This is basically forced You into positions. That maybe you didn't want to take. And they may be exactly the position Hamas wants you in.

When you s Insensitivity of either side towards the humanity of the other. That's literally what Hamas wants. So A Palestinian kid In Chicago.

With Killed. by his landlord was horrible And Fortunately, the Jewish community in Chicago showed a lot of solidarity to the Muslim community and condemned the murder and

But all of us when when our people are getting hurt, all of us become tribal. It's a it's a natural instinct, and that's what Hamas wants. And it's okay To show solidarity with your people, but it's very important now more than ever. to not play into their goals and to show humanity for all sides

And While we do need to re dismantle the terrorist infrastructure that Hamas have created We ніту мінімаз. Any suffering too. Any

Israelis or Palestinians? You're not a politician, you're a business person and you're Goals have been to sort of foster peace through business. In a moment like this, what can business do? I think the most important thing is to speak with moral clarity.

Що емпаті то о But Any tolerance towards terrorists disrespectful to humanity. I think there has to be very clear condemnation of terrorism.

And We can add to that that we have empathy towards all of the People that are suffering as a consequence. We've uh personally donated two point four million dollars to

humanitarian efforts to help the victims of terror and we're deploying The frontline impact. project to help both Israeli and Palestinian civilians that are impacted by the war. We have a hundred corporations in our network and we're inviting all of them to donate palette size.

quantities of products that were flying into the region to help Palestinians and Israelis suffering as a result. And I also have to say Condemning anti semitism

And condemning Any discrimination against human beings If anybody reacts with Islamophobia and attacks all Muslims, I condemn it. With

out equivocation. Marches in the streets Of Europe or the United States saying death to Jews, gas to Jews, or as they did in Australia, that stuff has to be condemned.

Any corporation that chose not to speak up after nine eleven, not to speak up after Russia's attacks against Ukraine, not to speak up aga uh after The horrible Murder of George Floyd. can be excused for saying we don't ever comment, but if you've spoken in the past Абат ані в дес хор финс.

To be silent when you're facing Piople marching and saying death to dus. Із моли Repugnant. And frankly, it's very, very scary because they burnt the synagogue in Tunisia now more than ever. Like

These things have consequences. Dehumanizing any people, whether it's Jewish, Muslim, Christian, or otherwise, we need to all stand against it. Mm. There are business leaders who I've heard from

who wanna say something but struggle with what the right thing to say is or how to say it to their people. I've put out resources on my instagram. on our LinkedIn channel, on all our social media. on the Lubetsky Family Foundation website. There's a lot of language that people can feel free to use.

First and foremost, you need to speak from the heart and be authentic, but it's not very complicated. Hamas terror. Is А син агенс хуманіті It is monstrous and unacceptable and

Anti semitism, Islamophobia, or any discrimination is not to be tolerated and it's to be condemned. There's been a lot of misinformation and disinformation spread on social media, videos, posts, claims that are hard to track. Even things like beheadings and you know things happening to kids or or rape. I guess how do you know what is true?

In an environment where there's so much Uneasiness about that. What's most striking Is that The terrorists did all of these jobs. Like they

filmed and documented all of this stuff and they posted it in their own channels. So Only people that I want to be blind and and ignore it can ignore their heinous crimes. But you're right, Bob, it's always been very hard during times of war to trust sources, and now it's even worse than that.

because people live in echo chambers. All of my Jewish And pro Israel friends. are sharing content with each other and they think that they're doing something constructive, but it's just speaking to the grues already convinced about their cause and then all of my

Palestinian and Moslem friends are speaking again themselves and they're not seeing each other's they're not understanding each other not educating each other they're certainly not growing they're only sowing hatred towards the other group because they are only being fed what they want to hear. And so it's it's very problematic and I think

The only solution out of this. Із тут Are silos. and reframe this and build the movement of builders. We've been trying to do it for thirty years. We're gonna double down on doing that.

We're gonna build a movement of builders versus destroyers. That's gonna help show how Palestinian entrepreneurs, Israeli inventors. Mosliman Jewish teachers

And terrorists on either side. Веде Ізраїлі орпалестіні да дина. the humanity of the other side is a destroyer. And there are some amongst our Israeli friends and they need to be isolated and removed from power. We cannot continue allowing extremists to rule us.

The extremists wake up in the morning and they're like, How can I advance my cause? And the Marats wake up in the morning and they're like, What am I gonna have for breakfast? And this is the problem that one single Monster can derail our efforts unless we all stand up with a voice

The evolution in my thinking is that It's good to be a modern But a builder needs to act. So we need to Take action.

Daniel has insight into both the Israeli and Palestinian communities. And his stories show how accessing a diversity of perspectives can impact your view of a situation. After the break, he'll share his ideas for the kinds of actions we need to take. We'll be right back. When you build substantial wealth through your business, it's often tied up in a single equity position.

The upside is real, but so is the risk, and knowing when to act isn't always obvious. Creative planning works with business owners to build a strategy around concentrated equity. When to diversify, how to manage tax risk, and how to protect what you've spent years. Building. Creative planning where wealth works together.

Learn more at creative planning dot com slash masters of scale. Humans will never be more intelligent than AI. Those were great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future? That is human centered. I'm Rana El Calyubi.

And on my podcast Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone. Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future, and we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show because every Friday we release a second Rapid Response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely.

From Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there. Before the break, we heard Kind founder Daniel Lubetsky talk about his 30 years of building relationships between Israelis and Palestinians. And how the conflict with Hamas has altered that dynamic. Now he talks about why the role of business is important in any solution and how to build bridges in the region and beyond.

Plus His proposed solution to help Palestinians in Gaza, which he admits is highly imperfect. Your Initial impulse that like You can foster peace through business.

You're still as committed to that as ever? Or is this Turn of events sort of made you Question. To some extent, what that kind of business collaboration can do.

Business collaboration Can never B A suficient Solution.

You need political resolution to the conflict, you need an educational element for people to Be taught. This humanity and empathy and respect for the other but

The business Aspect cannot be underestimated to build a better future for the people and building includes Building. businesses that can provide people employment and opportunities.

You've worked for decades in this area, and now there's been a major setback. That's gotta be Frustrating. The last Ten days have been very, very, very hard. I've been sleeping four or five hours a day.

As a son of a Holocaust survivor to see people marching and saying As the Jews, I take that very personally. My daughter came to me two days ago and she said, Daddy I understand that you're trying to Help your friends in the Middle East, your Palestinian and Israeli colleagues, but

You're not smiling anymore. And it just Made me remember that I cannot Let them diminish me. I'm gonna choose to laugh, I'm gonna choose to live, I'm gonna choose to build, I'm gonna choose to build with others. And particularly now that there's so much darkness, I'm gonna choose to be a light. And I want everybody that's listening to you today to choose to be a light with me and to build bridges and to reach out to the other and to reach out with humanity and not allow the terrorists

A victory. Cuz they wanna divide us, so we need to deny them by uniting. for a solution that's gonna deliver to Israelis, Palestinians and all of the people of the region And it's not just An issue

That Stay In the Middle East. It's gonna impact all of us on our shores. Every single person that's listening to your podcast is gonna be impacted by this and their children. It's a civilizational

Effort. Of voices of light, Moslem, Jewish and Christian's voices of light. The overwhelming majority of imams And Muslim leaders condemned Hamas

with Islamic values, but their voices don't get out. We just need to join together. If we don't, it's gonna end with a Europe and the United States and all of the world being invaded by hatred. What's happening in Ukraine. Is connected. There is rumors that Putin

Funded Hamas. He certainly is happy to see the United States have to open another front defending And supporting Izrael and Iran Sends drones.

To Russia. To attack innocent Ukrainians. Forces of totalitarianism. And hatred. А альєн і трайн то превен либерал демократії.

And so we need to Stand up and defend democratic societies defend Freedom

Юманіті, респект, кайнес. And understand that we cannot just live in our cocoons. If I'm inspired by this and I wanna support an organization or send some money, where do I find the right places to do that? Look up onevoice movement dot org, a movement of Israelis and Palestinians that are speaking one voice against extremism. If you go to the Lubetsky Family Foundation website, there's resources of organizations you can support.

If any corporate CO is wanna donate products or services, they should look at frontline impact. We started it during um COVID. because we wanted to donate kind bars to hospitals and first responders and we have over a hundred corporations that donated then after Covid we repurpose that to help Ukraine. And now we're also deploying it to help

humanitarian relief efforts in the Middle East. But. Honestly, Bob, even more important than donating money. Is Taking a stance in being a builder rather than destroyer.

Please join me on my social media to start learning how you can be part of this solution. The imperative to destroy Hamas Seems like It could sacrificed a lot of Palestinian lives in the process, and that repercussion is reprehensible in in all kinds of ways. And I I just wonder how you

Square those two things. Yeah, I I have an answer to that and it's a very imperfect answer, but I think you have to minimize Any casualties to Palestinians. And the way you do it is you free up some land and some neighborhoods, you invite Palestinians to come and have safe passage into those areas. And then you can start building with them and you get the United States community the Saudis, the Emirates, the Palestinian entrepreneurs, the Israeli entrepreneurs, everybody to invest.

billions of dollars in building a Gaza that Пипло камі промаз бин контрол. Of Gaza. For over fifteen years. They've had the chance and opportunity to build a

society that they could be part of. Throw rocket attacks. It is sadly Not tenable for them to stay in power because it's going to continue enslaving not just the south of Israel and Israelis in general, but also. The Palestinian victims.

Now Israel has to do a better job at resolving the Palestinian conflict. The Palestinian Authority has to do a better job. Everybody has to do a better job. But Hamas cannot be part of the equation and the Palestinian authority know it. It's unpopular for them to say it because right now But everybody that you speak behind the scenes, the Saudis, the Jordanis, the Egyptians, they all understand this. And my Israeli or Palestinian friends or American friends say But look at the suffering this is gonna do and I agree. Para ir

Do not know. A way that we ultimately b help build a Palestinian state in peace with Israel. Without first dislodging Hamas from control of Gaza. I just logically cannot

See how that happens. You need to give Palestinians hope, you need to Investing humanitarian aid to all the civilians. It's horrible when when they are in the line of fire. We need to do everything in our power. to minimize Israel Палестині кашуатіс. But I have to imagine intellectually and legally and emotionally

That you have to ultimately dislodge Hamas from power. They they don't have a moral right to exist after what they did. Well, these are very difficult times and I appreciate your Taking the time to talk with us about it. Thank you, Bob.

Listening to Daniel, you can hear him struggling to stay logical and calm in a situation that's highly emotional. We all carry preconceived notions, and that can be a barrier to true clarity. Only by engaging with those who seem different than us. And being open to learning even when it makes us uncomfortable. Can we grow as business people as leaders?

And it's humans. I'm Bob Sathien. Thanks for listening. Hey there, it's Jill Slesinger. I'm launching a new show. It's called Money Moves, and your money is going to move. We're gonna help you make better financial decisions. We're gonna call out the BS you're finding all over social media. We're gonna give you actionable guidance to make your financial life clearer, less stressful. We're gonna answer your financial questions and take the mystery out of your financial life.

Follow and listen to Money Moves with Jill Schlesinger wherever you get your podcasts. Masters of scale rapid response is a wait what original. I'm Bob Safian, your host and Masters of Scales editor at large. Our executive producer is Chris McLeod. Our producers are Chris Gautier.

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