Rapid Response: How GoFundMe has facilitated $15 billion in giving, w/CEO Tim Cadogan

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Mm. I learned that. Taking the time to project and stay calm and focus on okay. What matters. What can we do about it?

And how can I help? A great many of our campaigns have extraordinary emotional importance. Both to the person who's asking for help. And the person who's giving the help. And that level of emotional

demand on everyone involved is very, very unusual. The reality is that Life is not always easy. Hard things happen to us as humans. It was an incredible education in how important GoFundMe is to people. People need this system, and we've got to be our best for them.

That's Tim Kadugin, CEO of Go Fund Me, the for profit crowdsourcing platform that's facilitated fifteen billion dollars in giving. I'm Bob Safian. Former editor of Fast Company, founder of The Flux Group, and host of Masters of Scale Rapid Response. I wanted to talk to Tim because at a moment when divisiveness and uncertainty plague our culture, GoFundMe is using generosity as a tool to knit new social fabric. Since the pandemic hit, the service has been a growing resource and a global outlet for help.

The company just released its annual giving report, which illuminates its far-ranging impact for individuals in need as well as businesses. Tim argues that GoFundMe is more innovative than it could be as a not-for-profit, and that expanding the business is in service of expanding the mission. Asking for help, he says, unlocks more possibilities than people realize. А лесенко. I'm Bob Safian and I'm here with Tim Kaduggan, CEO of GoFundMe.

Since twenty ten, GoFundMe's raised fifteen billion dollars on its crowd sourcing platform through some. Two hundred million donations. Tim is coming to us from his home in Los Angeles as I ask my questions from My home in Brooklyn. Tim, thanks for joining us. Hey, good to be here, Bob. Thanks very much.

So you came in as CEO in March of twenty twenty, just as the pandemic was announced. Uh I'm sure you had Plans When you came in that were disrupted by this, how did your plan shift because of the pandemic? And are are your goals different now? than they were

When you came in. Yes, I mean uh I joined on March the second. And My first plan was really to learn And to get to meet everybody and understand how the business worked.

And Uh by the end of that first week We decided to go fulmote. I fortunately got to meet probably most people maybe once.

And my plan for learning. Which had been a plan that I called sort of an open source plan where I I came up with a curriculum where all the experts at the company would teach me and I hope to do that in person and learn and get to meet people. That had to take a A bit of a back seat.

to dealing with the incredible surge of demand. that we saw for the platform both in Europe and here in the US. And so learning took the form of getting hands on and trying to help and figure out how could we scale quickly enough. to respond to what people needed so urgently at that time and have really continued to do ever since. So it was a very, very uh intense way of understanding

what the company did. But I think the the only other thing to note is that It was an incredible education in how important GoFundMe is to people. Yeah, I really saw real time immediately like this really matters. People need the system. And we've got to be our best for them. Since then.

You've been Working with everyone remotely? Yeah, so it's sort of a day, really. Yeah, very unusual start. For sure.

And that burst of Demand at the outset. Pressure on the system. I mean you were guys were working in a different way yourselves, but was it technological? Was it sort of human, like you you need more people? How did that show itself?

So if we just cast our minds back The first phase of Covid fundraising Was Very focused on Medical.

Things like PPE. Uh getting more hospital capacity. Um, and then very qu probably about three or four weeks in as the lockdown started to Take real effect. It shifted.

Or I should say expanded. to small businesses, restaurants. uh you know, trying to help their employees, their furlough employees, and trying to stay afloat. That created Stress is because when you

Have a business as a beneficiary of a campaign. It's a heavier weight process to make sure that the business is valid and so We and in conjunction with our payment processing partners had to scale up. That back inside of our business really, really quickly,'cause suddenly we had tens of thousands of businesses using GoFundMe.

An operating uh crowd sourcing platform like this What's it Different than the other businesses you've run, the other businesses you've been a part of. Oh yeah. I mean very different. I'd been at Yahoo, so I've been involved in consumer businesses. And then I'd been in advertising

Most businesses are about commercial transactions. This business is not. This is about people helping each other. And

A great many of our campaigns have extraordinary emotional importance. Both to the person who's asking for help. And the person who's giving the help. And that level of

Emotional. Demand on everyone involved. is very, very unusual. Our users are in in a some very demanding situations. How do we help them through this? And that can be both for difficult things and for good things too. And I think that makes it very, very different from from a lot of businesses.

Other businesses we've talked with recently on the show, Peloton, Instacart, some others, had these similar bursts of growth in twenty twenty. And then they've been sort of challenged to figure out what normal is gonna be going forward. How do you gauge what their trajectory of the business is? Well, I tell you, predicting what twenty twenty one would look like was was was a pretty interesting I mean tr

We s we did our best. Now actually we were reasonably close to I mean obviously with Covid It has been hard to know. How that would play out. and how its ripple effects into people's lives would play out.

And of course, unfortunately, it we're not done, right? But we have seen I'd say let's take the US, particularly since Late Q two, sort of May, June into the summer. Much more normal life coming back. I mean two of the uh

Faster growing categories we've seen are animals and newly weds. Those people wanna get support. folks in their family just got married and building a life together. So we're seeing that Coming back, which is wonderful to see.

And we're also seeing actually a little more of the support for businesses. Um getting things started or wanting to expand a business. It's a great way. to reach out to your friends, your family, your neighborhood, your community.

W really generally want to help, particularly small businesses and and people who are starting out, and it's a great way to get some complimentary support. to what you're doing in terms of the fundamentals of the business. Mm so this week Go Fund Me released its twenty twenty one giving report and there's some highlights m March twenty eighth, the most generous Day of uh of the year because of a campaign to support

A baby with leukemia in the UK. Ireland the most generous country for the third year in the row. I'm not sure. Not sure I understand that. Maybe we'll we'll get to that. You had Will I Am launch a GoFundMe to support robotics in schools. Celine Gomez launched one to support mental health. You got Taylor Swift. Donating fifty thousand dollars to a Tennessee mother who lost her husband to Covet nineteen and even the Dalai Lama. Donating money to a financially strapped cafe in Scotland. D do you get a heads up? On these things. Or do they just like

Happened. It just happens. It's our privilege to be involved in this and be a place where all this can happen, but This is People coming together, asking for help, people responding to that.

And those people include Normal folks. And Famous people who start things Do you want to help?

It just happens and it's amazing. I mean, each day you could probably write ten Hollywood movies from the stories that are happening. It's quite incredible. And uh We're honored by it, honestly. We when you look at this given report, are there key messages, key takeaways for you? that it indicates about where where the platform is, where the world is.

There's two things that we think about a lot. Um One is Asking for help. How many people are asking for help? And

We think a lot about how do you make it easier to ask for help. Because asking for help is hard. And almost none of us really relish Asking People for help.

And So we're thinking through how how do we do that? How do we make that easier? And also Gratitude.

And so I think this year w we had something like fifteen million messages of gratitude back. to people who gave. We're thinking a lot about how do we help The recipients of giving to communicate not just thanks but also the impact.

What happened? In my life. As a result of you helping me with this campaign. So for example there's a A young woman called Alondra Carmona, who had an offer to go to Bernard College.

And This is about a little bit less than a year ago, I'd say nine months ago. And then Her mother lost her job. And they were going to be evicted. And so she

put her college fund, her savings Towards Keeping them in their home. And gave up on her dream of going to college.

But put up a GoFundMe. In the hope that maybe someone would help. And in fact. The community helped enormously and the fundraiser gained a lot of traction, raised a hundred and seventy five thousand dollars.

So she's now at college. And I've seen the pictures of her college. And just seeing That And communicating to everybody who gave to that campaign you've sent this young woman to college.

That's pretty incredible. So we're thinking through like how do we continue to do more of that? Because that giving and then that gratitude and that impact. That's social fabric, right? That's really important social fabric. That We need more of

We hope to play a role in encouraging more of that. It's interesting as you as you talk about this mix of sort of the emotional impact of the work and the practical impact working together. How much of the goal of Go Fund Me is to make The company the platform for giving.

versus sort of inspiring a certain kind of activity and habit around giving. The way we think about it is very simple. We wanna help people help each other. And we wanna be the most helpful place in the world where people can come together. It's not just about giving because the giving doesn't happen unless someone asks for help.

And compared to asking, giving is easier, in fact. So Asking for help, helping people Realize that people actually Do want to help them.

And then connecting the dots between them? And a lot of The social psychology research shows That People underestimate the degree w to which others are willing to help them by about half.

Which is pretty amazing when you think about it, right? So you think, Oh, people only help me this much. Actually it's double. And so trying to help think through how to design experiences And create incentives for people to ask for help and then allow that giving to occur. Can I ask why is GoFundMe a for profit business? The things that your aspirations are about are often more organized in the nonprofit format, or even how

Does being a for profit business help? The goal. It really helps because we can Invest. And innovate.

um in a way that's much harder to do. If you're not for profit because we compete. With the other big consumer tech companies for the best talent. In product.

Technology, trust and safety. Security. All the different disciplines legal, finance, all the disciplines you need Because we have to offer a world class service. That's constantly innovating.

from the user experience down through how we handle payments and to do that. You need a Great people who are really Ambitious in service of the mission. By being

So focused on innovating it allows us also to be incredibly efficient. So when you think about The movement of money. Two people who are Looking for help.

It's very, very efficient. So if you raise, let's say a hundred dollars. The beneficiary Get ninety seven of those dollars. goes directly to the beneficiary.

The three dollars that comes out is for the transaction handling related to payment processing. Which is the same. It's like if you go and pump gas or go to the supermarket, right? And so you're you're getting everything you can. And That I would contend is more efficient.

Then any non profit system out there. And we hope to even move that up over time. So we're becoming more and more efficient moving More money more effectively to more people.

At a scale that I don't think anyone else is doing. But we could only do that with great people. Who are hungry driven, ambitious and want to achieve this larger purpose. In the context of an organization that's very mobilised.

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Learn more at creative plating dot com slash masters of scale. Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show. Because every Friday we release a second rapid response exclusively in the rapid response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely from Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there.

Humans will never be more intelligent than AI. There can be two types of companies. Those are great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future? That is human centered. I'm Rana El Calyubi.

And on my podcast Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone. Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future. And we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Before the break, we heard GoFundMe CEO Tim Kaduggan talk about the company's new twenty twenty-one giving report.

How asking for help can unlock possibilities, and why he argues that operating as a for-profit entity enables faster innovation than a not-for-profit. Now he discusses the range of needs GoFundMe projects address, the societal challenges that they pose, and how discipline and clear rules can clarify behavior. He also talks about the importance of making his service easier to use, a lesson any business can follow. Plus, he shares his anxiety around hybrid work systems and how he's leaning into more explicit communication to build a more effective workplace culture. One of your colleagues said to me that everything that happens in the world happens on GoFundMe. And that includes, you know

Winter storms and wildfires and earthquakes. And school shootings. It's like Еврі крайси Kind of unending.

That could be depressing. Is it? Dealing with all that? Um The reality is that

Life is not always easy. Hard things happen to us as humans. When people face Difficult things. What folks want to do is they want to come together and they want to help. I would not normally say this, but I had a friend dive the weekend.

And Within a day? Other friends. had put together a GoFundMe. He has a young family.

And Everyone wants to help. Uh'cause there's not much else we can do. Right. Um

And that's a way to do it. That's tough. But we're able to be a place that people can come together. Um and that's really important.

And then of course we're we are there for those difficult things. But we're also there. For all the good things in life too. You're getting married. Or your

Little ET wants to go on tour of Oregon or You wanna go to college, or you wanna do a study abroad trip, or you wanna start a new business, or You want to start a brewery. You name it, right? Everything. That you think you need help.

So I think in all of those situations we matter and we're there for people when they need us. Mm-hmm. Tim, I'm sorry for your loss and Thank you for sharing that with us. За лідер із бізнес.

There can be public pressure around some of the causes and the people who are raising money. It's one of the Challenges that that you have to navigate. I was thinking about two Recent Court cases, you know, Kevin Strickland who was Wrongly convicted and in prison.

For forty three years. And then Kyle Rittenhouse, who was tried and acquitted of murder. Both of those cases have had lives of certain Kinds on GoFundMe Rittenhouse's initial fundraisers were removed from the platform and That band's now been lifted. Can you take us through each of those cases and how You think about what their life is and what impact you're having with them.

Yeah, I mean really We have a very clear set of terms of service. Which anyone can look at online. We have a very robust trust and safety team whose job it is to interpret and apply those as clearly and consistently as possible.

And The company's been around. For ten years, so we have a lot of experience. In the case of violent crimes, it's actually quite simple. Um if you are charged

With a violent crime. Which is being the FBI definition of a violent crime. You Can't Or put together a fundraiser for your legal defence on GoFundMe.

That's sort of the rule. So that's why uh those campaigns. weren't allowed to run. If you have been acquitted. Of a violent crime.

Then Yeah, fundraisers for other expenses, yeah, okay. That's that situation. And so We try to look at a situation that comes up

Uh obviously consider the circumstances, but then apply the terms and service as consistently as we can. The system you have for sort of managing this Potential controversy. I mean the rules sound very clear as you describe them, although for a lot of other platforms particularly social media platforms, other content platforms, as they grow, managing that content and all those things becomes more

complicated. Is the monitoring on your platform done mostly By people. By algorithm ha and how maybe is that evolving as the platform itself is growing? Yeah. It's a blend. And I think a lot of those other platforms are probably a blend too, but ours is a blend of technology that's looking for certain phrases and words and categories and so on. And people that are looking at things.

And it's also uh social, you know, input from the community. Um so a little bit of a different example, but that not so much a policy issue more a question uh around misuse. So for example, if if if someone puts up a campaign Where they're trying to get money for something that isn't legitimate.

Often what happens is in a case like that, which actually is relatively rare, but in a case like that their friends and family will will ping us and say, Hey, you know, Tim put up a campaign, says he's broken his leg, he hasn't broken his leg. What's up with that? And that's the reason why that kind of behavior is relatively rare.

Because It just doesn't work. Right, because if you think about a fundraiser, once you set it up the first thing you do is you share it with the people that you know. And that's where it gets initial traction.

And If the people you know like, yeah, that doesn't seem right. You guess what? You don't get any donations. And people tell us we look into it, we look into every report and we're like, Hm, this isn't legit. We'll take it down. You wrote a letter urging Congress to provide more covet relief early this year, which makes sense given the volume of

of Covid need you were seeing on the platform. Are there other areas that you think Go Fund Me should be or maybe exercising its voice, its leadership? Yeah, the way we Think about that, Bob. It's it's it's basically We look at what's happening on the platform and if we see a large pattern of activity, particularly an area of need. Like, hey, our communities need help. They're asking for it individually, but is there more that we could do as a corporation to to push for this. So that was one obvious one. We could see a huge amount of

Desperate need related to COVID. So what hey. We'll just add our voice and add our data to the discussion here. Another example was with API. We saw a spate of attacks

horrific attacks on vulnerable Particularly elderly. Asian people. A lot of those became campaigns on GoFundMe. So

We set up our A API fund. To mobilize support. for particularly local community charities working on issues like that. So for example, one of the recipients was A a charity that gives out uh sort of alarms to people so that if you're being attacked, you can press this thing that's super loud.

As an example. Um And um That fund is, I think at this point is raised seven seven to eight million dollars. And the AAPI example that you set up, I understand. GoFundMe has a nonprofit arm, a foundation, which

can set up these fundraising efforts and distribute the funds separate from the for profit part of the business. That's exactly right. There's a separate organization called GoFundMe.org. Which is a five O one C three, and can set up funds. People can contribute to those funds. And then

GoFundMe.org. In conjunction with whatever advisory board or group it assembles, depending on the fund. then disperses those funds as grants Either. to individual campaigns.

or two organizations. So we did this with the Small Business Relief Initiative. The early stage of COVID. We've done this for wildfires. We it was AEPI was another fund. America's Food Fund, which is actually one of our largest ever funds, which was a collaboration with Laureen Powell Jobs Emerson Collective and Leo DiCaprio that raised forty five million dollars.

for food insecurity, feeding America, World Central Kitchen, and so on. So those are all examples that have been structured and managed through GoFundM.org. Which of course we we support the operations of and help fund. Mm. You've talked a bit.

recently about your uneasiness about what the return to work Might. Yeah. Can you explain what that uneasiness is and where you are on trying to navigate it?

Yeah, I mean look I think that going remote. Now let me qualify this. I think that Knowledge workers. Yeah, folks who've been sort of tech businesses like ours and others. Tremendously.

privileged in that we were able to continue our work, continue to be compensated. With relatively little disruption. Relative to a lot of people who have jobs that you have to physically. Going remote was disruptive, but

sort of manageable in in many ways. These companies have been able to be Remarkably effective. Some might argue even a little bit more effective in some areas. The whole return to work, which is just a really bad phrase anyway, because you're not returning to work. Everyone's been working really hard.

Um but the sort of Going back to an office. That I think is it's not going back to anything. It's going into some new completely uncertain hybrid future. That

It's gonna be really tricky to work out. What kind of meetings are you gonna have? How are you gonna do hybrid meetings? How are you gonna do three people in the room and then two people on the phone, and then if you want everyone to have on be on one screen. Can they be in the same room or is the feedback gonna be terrible? Do you need a lot more conference rooms?

And on and on and on and on. I just don't know. I just think there's gonna be a lot of things to figure out and I I just I worry about it'cause I think there's so many unanswered questions. And I also think it's the beauty of This is everyone is

Equal. We all have this little Little screen here. And we're on the same page, you know, we're on the same level and that will change quite a bit. So I just have a lot of unanswered questions, I guess. And um approaching it with a lot of humility is like I don't know, we've got to try a lot of different things here and experiment.

Are there resources, or there are people or community that you that you talk to about this as you're trying to figure out you know what this next phase looks like? Yeah, I mean and everyone's navigating the same thing. So there are plenty of opportunities to connect with other folks and talk us through and uh Yeah, I think mm. Anyone's feeling like, Yeah, we we know what we're gonna do. It's gonna get it, we're gonna crush it. I I haven't heard a lot of that. Um so I think there's a lot of Community

problem solving that's gonna happen. And I I hope that people share kind of here's what works and here's what doesn't and here's what's works within a team versus across teams And so on. You've added a slew of new talent since the pandemic hit since you've been there. Executives, board members, staff. You're something like thirty percent larger than when you started. You have to do all that onboarding

And and cultural effort. Do you have clarity about what parts of this like work? This was the thing probably I was most worried about. Because I knew I would have to hire Uh some senior people. And

been working for twenty five years and I'd never hired someone without meeting them extensively. I just couldn't imagine hiring a senior executive colleague without spending a bunch of time and having dinner and all the things that we would do. I was like, Oh no, like how on earth is this gonna happen? But then like a lot of things, it's like okay. You just spend?

A lot of time like this. And you just really go deep and spend a bunch of hours. And remarkably it it works. And I think one thing that does work Maybe it's counterintuitive is you sort of Focus more on explicit communication.

Because In this format, the virtual format, you can't read body language as well. You can't read the sort of nonverbal cues, the gestures, the moving of the feet, the all those subtle cues that are very important to humans in communication. They're there, but they're much more two dimensional. So you have to be more explicit.

Which is kind of The silver lining. That's a good lesson. But also still nothing supplants. actually getting together. So we have had a couple of sort of exec team guests together. Only a couple.

And they've been wonderful, but what has been surprising is I think you know, there's a bunch of people That I hide that I never met. And I wondered.

Would they be like What I think they're like when I meet them in person. But actually what? Uh we were like, Hey, you're kinda like what I thought you'd be like. Except people to me were like You're really tall. Like uh you really

are able to get to know people. So it really goes back, I guess, to the age of like just gotta put in the time. Even though the times In a virtual, you gotta put in the time. And and when you've had these exec team get togethers, are people more explicit? Like has the experience of You know, having to communicate in a different way.

on these platforms, these remote platforms. Impacted the way you feel like people interact once they're in person? I think it's helped. I also think that it's pushed us To do more.

asynchronously. Uh and particularly in our case that means writing things down. And that explicitness in writing. as well as in verbal communication does really help, I find. I was Uh reading something an interview that you done where you someone was citing sort of three questions that you ask in interviews.

And I wanted to ask one of the questions to you. Which was um can you walk me through a moment where you face a lot of adversity and what you learn from it? Mm well, I mean I think the most uh probably the most relevant near term one was starting this job. Right.

What And uh one Yeah, feet around the bush. It was a lot of Personal pressure and stress. So what what did I learn? I learned that

Making the time to really focus on what's important. And be disciplined about that. Taking the time to project and stay calm and focus on okay.

What matters. What can we do about it? And how can I help? Those Techniques.

got us through it and I think they're useful in any situation. Yeah. What's at stake for GoFundMe right now? Really? It's about how

Do we Enable more people To help each other. It's very, very simple. And I if I look at

How much activity we have. It's a lot of activity. But in the scheme of How many people in the world? Need help, want to help each other? It's like a thimble.

It's it's so small, right? There's so much more That people can do for each other. And They increasingly want to do it for each other in more direct ways, right? This is a theme in the modern world, not necessarily going through

big institutions and so on, but helping each other directly And so our big questions are How do we make it easier? How do we help people see that they can use us for all these different things? So asking for help.

Enabling that to happen at more scale and then more more globally. So today we're in nineteen countries. That's nineteen countries where you can organise a campaign. You can give from almost anywhere. We've had donations from probably a hundred and eighty countries. But enabling people to set up a campaign. And receive help in many more countries around the world.

Is is a big piece of that. In order to expand that. uh flow of help between people. So that's what we're focused on. Yeah, I I I mentioned at the outset that the um giving report has Ireland as the number one country for giving for the third years in a row. A little a little puzzling to me. Is there an explanation for that?

I'm not sure it's I mean the Irish of I've always been extraordinarily Kind and generous nation? And beyond that, I mean yeah it's hard to say what exactly is behind it. But they're crushing it, you know? That's third year in a row. I think they take a lot of pride in that.

As you should. And it's wonderful. So good on them. Good on them. Thank you, Tim. This this has been great. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that we should have? Anything I haven't asked you about that we should touch on? Yeah, I would just encourage folks to think.

About being an organizer. And and I know a lot of people give, probably a lot of people listen to this give many times. If you just Organized. It could be for something small, something local, a family you know in the neighborhood.

Heading into the holidays a shelter. Doesn't really matter specifically. There's just so many opportunities. But if you organise You multiply your impact. To help something that matters to you.

your contribution is actually probably like twenty to twenty five times more. And that can make a really big difference. And I feel like All societies need that.

Yeah, I would just encourage people to think about that as an opportunity. So that's probably what I'd leave you with. Well Tim, thank you so much for taking the time and for sharing all this. It was really interesting and really appreciate it. You're you're welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Masters of Scale Rapid Response is a wait what original.

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