Rapid Response: Reid Hoffman on the business impacts of Trump vs. Harris

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Majority of COs I talk to Are deeply concerned. With the chaos. And the vision. That's

Trump and his supporters represent for the country. Uh many of them are traditionally deeply Republican. They say, great, we're glad that you're, you know, that you're out there, because you can speak this truth about American business. Which, you know, we by our positions must be unfortunately silent on.

That's Reed Hoffman. co-founder of LinkedIn, partner at Graylock, and a host of Masters of Scale. The sister podcast to rapid response. Reed has become a prominent voice in this year's presidential race as a bridge between business and politics.

He's been a supporter of Biden and now Harris, in sharp contrast to folks like Elon Musk. I wanted to talk with Reed about the divide in Silicon Valley at this moment of tumult. And he was refreshingly candid. He acknowledges what makes Trump compelling to some. And why he disagrees.

And he outlines the opportunities ahead for Harris. He even offers lessons about blitz scaling that he hopes the Harris campaign and not the Trump campaign. We latch on to. It's a rich Thought provoking, insightful conversation, as dialogue with Reed usually is. So let's get to it.

I'm Bob Safian. And this is rapid response. Reed, great to be with you. Thanks for doing this today. Bob, always a pleasure. We have seen uh an extraordinary series of events this week.

You were among the voice Publicly supportive of Joe Biden after the debate. And then You came out quite quickly in support of Camel Harris. I personally was looking forward to a more

open process, however messy that might be, that it might add energy to the campaign, you you didn't feel that way. Well actually I would have been Uh and I am open to an open process in a variet various ways. But part of the There were two or three things going on. One is that I think

Uh Kamala is a is an excellent candidate in a Additive way. to which Biden was a good candidate. I'll go back to that in a moment.

And Um a lot of the folks that people We're hoping for As candidates all decided themselves that supporting Kamala was the right thing.

So you see a bunch of people like Gretchen Whitner, Josh Shapiro. bunch of great democratic governors all endorsing Kamala Um, Kamala is one of the ones who's gone through, you know, national vetting. Um, and so you know, part of what happens when you go into the

presidential race, there's a lot of intense examination and Kamala's done that. And so I think that's kind of the process reason. Now the structural reason is part of the reason I was supportive of Biden is because You know, part of what Biden Set off against Trump. Was

A combination of decency and unity. more bipartisan legislation than any president in decades. Um you know, kind of working to bring us together. Now in addition to that What Harris brings to table is

Із Um, in it's kind of entertaining uh American reality television show. That is our presidential election.

You have a prosecutor against a felon. uh and the importance thing about the rule of law is actually in fact One of the things I think that the the central election's about. It's about

saying actually in fact trying to overturn election with an insurrection on January sixth Is bad. Actually Following the laws of the nation. um is actually key. And I think that's one of the things that

Kamala. brings to the picture. There there's been a a lot of Back and forth. About how different parts of Silicon Valley align with the presidential candidates. You know, Elon Musk has been

Vocal in support of Donald Trump and Mark Andreessen and Ben Horowitz also rallied to Trump. There are others like you who are vocal in support of the Democratic Party. How Divisive have things become in Silicon Valley? I mean, it it is a small place that The impact of it is big, but it it's not a big place. Well, I mean Silicon Valley has rarely been unified

to one candidate in part because Relatively few candidates are as strongly technology building the future. And so Uh, generally speaking there is always actually some

Some debate. Within it. Now this debate I think is a little strange because if you consider Trump One, you know, t classically, Republicans are the party of business. And so they argue it's business thing. Well, here's a business person who's arguing tariffs.

Um and you know, and other kinds of things which are like you know, anti business. So it's kind of Strange. Іно, Дональ Чемс. Um, is perhaps one of the very few human beings on the planet who can lose money running a casino.

So you know, it's kind of like also bad on business credentials. And you go, Well maybe JD Vance. Well, but when JD Evans says hey, of all the people that that Biden's appointed She's like, most of them are bad, but the one who's really good is Lena Khan. Now she is the representative of the kind of thing that I would be doing. So it's a little bit of a strange

Dialogue. Because because the the regulatory environment and Things like You know, that that's part of what has made some business leaders skeptical about

About Biden and about the Democrats. People say, Well, are you just, you know, so resolutely anti Trump. It's like well actually in fact I thought one of the things that he did well in his presidency. It's like you want a new regulation, remove an old one. It's a generally Good. you know, kinda refactoring and don't allow cruft. I mean I think that the regulatory stuff is good. Now That being said,

What I think people don't realize is a stability, unity, and rule of law. is um is is the most important thing for business. You know, it isn't a question of like corpores going up but down by a percentage or an additional regulation or two. Those are important things for business. But the thing that's actually in fact Uh most important.

Do you want a stable society? It's what you can invest in, it's what you can hire people in, and that's. One of the reasons why you know I think Joe Biden has been a great president, and I think Kamala Harris can be a great president because I've for business.

uh in as well as general because of that specific attribute. We can go into details and say, well, but you know, they're gonna add these three regulations. And you say, well, those regulations would be Probably less good for business. Uh sometimes, by the way, you know Good.

Thoughtful. business people. Realize that some regulation is very good. It creates a stable environment. Uh it creates a uh a good transactional thing it's like for example, you know, having regulation about

food and drug you know, haven't you may disagree with the intensity of it in some ways, and you may want to say, we wanna have drugs approved more quickly, both of which I think are very good points and important. But you might say, look, the baseline is good for the overall uh transactional velocity and stability of society. So much of America has become like

calcified like that that you're either on one you're either red or you're blue and there's not a lot of movement back and forth. Does it feel that way in Silicon Valley too? Like when When you talk with your colleagues in the community there, is it sort of like Two different camps or or is there dialogue? I would say

That there are fragments of dialogue. Um I would say that the People who are More Uncertain of the key issues or talking to

The folks who You know, representing. the kind of the camp that I'm in, which is I believe. You know, stability, unity, rule of law.

And then there's people who Think that the you know The wrecking ball. That is Donald Trump. Is the right environment for

Disruptive and You know, kind of Technology and there's people who talk to both of those. I'd say a crosset. Not as much.

Because I Uh had a Twitter exchange with David Sachs. You know, I made an offer to go on the all in podcast.

To talk about it, which, you know. Even though they they accused me of being timid on Twitter. They haven't taken me up. on that offer. You know, it's like what is it, your your beliefs are where your mouth is or your boldness is or something. Um, but anyway, we do have uh obviously in this time around, we have a much more

Set of vigorous voices. For Trump. than we've had in the previous Elections. I think some of it's crypto. You know, I think that the

Biden administration has actually mishandled They're thinking of crypto in various ways. And so I think there's a bunch of crypto people who are single issue. I think there's others. That

You know, can I have uh some belief that his wrecking ball is a better strategy. But I think they're mostly under misapprehensions and big in a in kind of information bubble. So I think that's that that's part of the dialogue you have. Now you'll note that most

Of the Public. Voices. For Trump

uh migrated away from Silicon Valley. I guess the last thing I would say is You know, a number of those voices who've been public about Trump. were also public about Trump lost their support because of January Sixth.

um you know kind of violence and insurrection and then are not addressing that. um in their regain of support. And I would, you know, think that would be one of several different points of integrity. to say if you have integrity and you're supporting Trump in this election.

You should address that. When you think about your own role in politics personally. Like I'm not sure we've had a period before Where the endorsement of a business leader would get quite as much Attention as your statements have sometimes gotten like

Is that strange for you? Uh, it's very strange. I mean I'm not I'm much more of a Of a of a technology innovator, business builder, investor. the kind of thing that is is is the

More natural use of my talents. But on the other hand, I think part of what's important Like if this was Republican Democrat. There's a number of Republicans I've supported over the years. I tend to think it's just

Great leader. you know, a leader who's a democrat, a leader who's republican, a leader who's committed to society. But When it gets down to kind of rule of law. You know, kind of the baseline

Of the system. then I kind of feel like I have to put a lot more energy than I put in. Previously. And you know, kind of to riff on a Vinod coastal line.

I think there's Democrats, Republicans, and felons. Here's a business way of putting it. Trump would be disallowed from running any public company. With his record. Right. Like

Like you wouldn't the the rules wouldn't allow him to r run a public company. And many of these business people who support him wouldn't do business with him. He's like Okay, this is the person that you're supporting as the so called business candidate for For president. Right. It's it's it's it's um It's kinda surprising. As

An investor. You're not you're not personally leading a big group of people. When you talk to CEOs in your portfolio companies and otherwise. Like, what do you talk about is the appropriate role for an organizational leader? I mean, some portion of every employee base. Probably supports each candidate. So Can you express how you feel as a CEO? Should you?

Well I think The thing that I've talked to a number of CEOs and this all the way straight back to Jeff Wiener at LinkedIn. You know, when Trump was first elected. is to say I don't think That

It makes sense to kind of articulate call it you know Team X or Team Y. Because of not just employees, but customers, investors, et cetera. Like if you just kind of say, hey, I'm oppositional to your team picking. You know. Yankees versus Red Sox or

You know, kind of equivalent. is kind of alienating in a way that business is supposed to be Unifying. That's a good thing to kinda sidestep. You know, you may personally attend a fundraiser, vote, et cetera, but as a leader of the organization to use the platform is different. Now. That being said, I do think

That there's ways to articulate Kind of call it. support for America. That if are treat it as partisan, then the people who are treating it as partisan, there's something wrong with them.

For example, the twenty twenty election. Being a Kind of A fair and balanced election. If someone

takes exception to that as partisan, you can say, well, that's actually that's like saying it's partisan. to be pro-business or anti-business or something. And it's like, no, no, no. This is just the kind of the fundamental operating system of our Country and belief. In the US конституцію із на partisan.

An investor and a board member, say at Microsoft. You have more freedom and than Satya Nadella does to Engage in discussions about

Candidates. Oh yes, for sure. I don't mean to pick on the Well Sati one of the great COs of our modern times. When you're on a board, you don't speak for the company. You never speak for the company.

I don't speak for the company on anything. I don't speak for the company on product releases. I don't speak for the company on You know. I mean part of the For example, Microsoft governance from the very first day that I joined is like

All board members. You know, you're not supposed to speak for the company, ever. But by the by doing that. That means you just only speak for yourself. Right.

I have literally never once said Anything. more precise about Microsoft other than well, I think they're very smart about what they're doing with AI. Right, you know, something along those lines. And I I think that's right. And that gives me and all board members and

You know, that's true of other public companies and other private companies and other venture firms and I think it's an ability to uh to speak. Publicly. Are there

CEOs. who talk to you and encourage you to be Vocal about The political situation because they can't be? Uh very much.

I mean most Look, I'd say that the Majority of COs I talked to Are deeply concerned. with the chaos

And the vision. and kind of anti stability and anti rule of law. That Uh Trump and his supporters represent for the country.

Right. Many of them are traditionally deeply Republican. They're the the business of a bus of America is business. The you know government should get out of the way of businesses creating

jobs and industry and they are still kind of deeply concerned about the way that Trump and his folks. Run. their elections they run their

support of things like Charlottesville. other kinds of things and they go, No, this is not what we should be doing. What we should be doing is actually in fact You know, not trying to make a a division and hatred reality television show, which makes good ratings. But we should be making a good environment for business.

They say, Great. We're glad that you're, you know, that you're out there because you can speak this truth about American business, which, you know, we by our positions. Must be Unfortunately silent on. It's interesting how Reed describes himself as a reluctant political actor. At various times in our lives, we embrace tasks or have them thrust upon us in ways we may not have preferred, but that doesn't diminish our responsibility in those moments or our need for action.

After the break, Reed and I talk about why he thinks blitz scaling provides a good model for presidential campaigning and more. We'll be right back. When you build substantial wealth through your business, it's often tied up in a single equity position. The upside is real, but so is the risk, and knowing when to act isn't always obvious. Creative planning works with business owners to build a strategy around concentrated equity.

When to diversify, how to manage tax risk, and how to protect what you've spent years building. Creative planning where wealth works together. Learn more at creative planning dot com slash masters of scale. Humans will never be more intelligent than AI. There's gonna be two types of companies. Those were great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future?

That is human centered. I'm Rana El Calyubi. On my podcast Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone. Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future. And we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in.

Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show. Because every Friday we release a second rapid response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely from Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there. Before the break, Reed Hoffman shared why he's become so active in politics and what divides business and tech leaders in the presidential race. Now we talk about how a Harris administration might approach AI, the model that Blitzscaling offers for political campaigns, and the risks that he hopes Harris takes.

As for Reed's preferences for Harris's VP candidate. Well You'll have to listen in. Let's get back to it. We talked earlier this year for the podcast about a meeting you had with Joe Biden about

AI and tech development. And you said you were you were pretty reassured that You know, despite his age, Biden had a framework for thinking about AI that was forward looking and people focused. Have you had any discussions about AI with Camel Harris? Do you do

Do you know what her philosophy on tech is? I haven't had it In depth. Vice President Harris showed up. At the UK AI safety meeting in last november.

Um so she's she's active and thinking about it. And so her contributions in the meeting were Hey, um, there can be all these great things that are created by AI. medical assistants, tutors, et cetera, that's really good. And we just need to make sure that we're bringing all of society along and doing the right kind of guardrails to make sure that the

Bad Potential things, whether it's, you know, kinda racial bias or Enshring the power of the already powerful are carefully navigated. But you know, I think that she's intellectually interested and, you know, to some degree, Since the selection has now become a

Young versus old. election. She brings the The young Curious vigor. Into the picture.

You never had any uh encounters with her b when she was in California earlier about technology, necessarily. No, and that was in part because My general. interaction in politics has been and I would love it to return to kinda like, Hey, I'm I'm building really important things for People.

uh through business and through technology. And I just support, you know, various kind of of of great leaders, whether they're political leaders or entertainment leaders or other things as I find them. um, you know, kind of as a as a side thing to the job I'm doing. And so that's what I was doing before. And so I hadn't You know, uh Vice President Harris and I haven't really talked about that in any depth.

We're about A hundred days from election day. CEOs know that their first hundred days are often incredibly important in some ways. You know Harris is now sort of starting her job in the campaign. Are there

Are there models of refounding that the Harris campaign can borrow from? Are there Startup principles or blitz scaling principles that That could be applied. To this campaign in this at this moment?

Yeah, I think um I mean the I think it's use the fact that it that you only have a hundred days as a feature, not a bug. It's kind of classic entrepreneurship thing, which is like say, Well You don't have the structural advantages that an that a existing business with all of its customers and capital and everything else has. You have to use

your advantages in the field. And I think That means that among other things Kamala Harris can now kind of articulate Which things she would bring as new things, as different things, that even while uh being proud of

lowest crime rate in fifty years, lowest unemployment rate in fifty, and other kinds of things. She can say and this Now is the new things that we are building towards. And so I think She can use all of that. So

Wh where do we go from here? I mean just it just a few days in From some intense tumult Things suddenly seem like settled. In some ways for the Democrats. Are there other like plans B?

That are still bubbling. I know you talk about not just a plan B, but plans B. Are are there things still bubbling or is the is the VP pick the the only thing that's left? I think there's a lot of stuff. That's still game on. I think we're gonna have a You know, very interesting. hundred days. Obviously the vice president pick is a very important one.

Um you know, on top of a lot of people's minds. Uh Mine too. Um, but also like Kamala Harris has this. ability to

Articulate now. Where she will be new what she will be bringing to The kind of the Renovation.

And the uh the rebuilding. of DC that a lot of American people want to see. And what kinds of things can she do? So there's a ton of stuff. that plays out there.

And you know, kind of classic startup land. She's gonna have to do this in a Quick and good. versus

Long, deliberative, and perfect. Mm. And and the the uh the blitz scaling idea that it's uh better to have something imperfect. And out there, you know. Be embarrassed by your first

Product. Does that apply in politics? Uh well I think it applies now. Yeah. And probably applies in politics generally, but it definitely applies now. Do you have a VP pick that you're that you're excited about? Are there candidates that you you know, possibilities that you feel like Oh, these are the folks that Yeah. That I think would be good for this? I have a number.

Um, not a huge number, but a number that I think would be great. Um, but I think That one of the things that people Like part of what makes me a good board member Is that I don't You know, I I understand how to play

Support. To The primary In this case the CEO, or in this case the presidential candidate. And so I don't I don't I play

Uh. Help. Not Not second guesser, not public you know, like Like I don't go out and say, Well, I think this this the m my CEO should hire a new person for

They're CFO You know, et cetera, et cetera. It's you know, those are all Background conversations versus foreground ones. So y you may share the those ideas with The Harris of the Harris campaign, but you're not gonna share them with us today. Yes, you you drew the straight line between the dots. Yeah.

Um well Reed, I I uh I know you're you're crazy these days, so thanks for uh thanks for taking the time to To chat with us. I really appreciate it. Always a pleasure to talk with you, Bob, and uh you know, look forward to uh many more conversations. Talking about politics in a business podcast is tricky territory. As Reid emphasizes, most businesses have employees, customers, and investors on both sides of the aisle, and I'm sure that goes for this show's listeners too.

I hope that wherever you sit You heard some nuggets here that help. Put both the tactics and the stakes of this year's election into clear focus as a voter and as a business person. What I most take away from Reed is that small single issue topics shouldn't dictate our political positions that there are

Bigger principles to play. What can be challenging is agreeing on what the bigger topics and bigger principles are in a country as diverse as America. As is often the case. The terrific breadth and variation that make America such a dynamic society. also bring limitations and disadvantages.

What compels me Which leader and which party. is best positioned to help us manage our limitations and disadvantages. And propel us toward a future where our dynamism can be responsibly unleashed. Reed's made his judgment.

In a hundred or so days we'll find out how the rest of the country feels. I'm Bob Safian. Thanks for listening. Rapid response is a wait what original. I'm Bob Safian. Our executive producer is Eve Tro. Our producer is Alex Morris. Assistant producer is Masha Maku Tonina.

Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastanelli. Theme music by Ryan Holiday. A head of podcasts is Lital Malad. For more, visit rapidresponsshow.com.

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