#143 with Jeremy Cai of Italic - Influencer Coffee Making Millions, What Cold Chain Is and Why It's Booming, And Tons of Ideas

Mm-hmm. I feel like I can rule the world, I know I can be what I want to I put my law in it like my day's off On the road less travel never looking back Good. Yeah, I'm recording on my side. Let's do it.

Jeremy, um Do you know Sean? Yeah, funny story. Sean was one of my role models back in college. Um at me now. Wait, why? Uh so so I went to college uh in the small school called Babson in in Boston and um and you know uh it most of the people there go eventually end up in like finance, but the the main shtick of the college is like it's not supposed to be number one for entrepreneurship. A lot of kids were like really into that. Um and uh and

Uh, around Boston we like organized a trip to San Francisco, visited a bunch of tech companies. Um back in like twenty Print. twenty Winter twenty thirteen or twenty fourteen and um and Monkey Inferno and uh And uh be both like you know, Sean was this like really impressive guy who we we visited and the office was spectacular, so

Um Also Sean, but like I I think I think we've mentioned that office a little bit, but this is how I actually met Sean as well. And I let's I don't w care if sh Sean shouldn't describe this because it was kinda his, but he had this office, Jeremy, that was It was called Monkey Inferno. It could have housed or uh you know, w not probably fifty people could have worked there if they wanted to.

Maybe more. If I like they had an espresso machine, they had uh I think a a cook that would come every day, like a professional kitchen. It had tables that looked it had a table that was maybe fifteen feet wide and it looked as if you cut down a Yosemite tree and turned it into a table. Like it looked like a two hundred thousand dollar table. The worst part was I I thought that was every startup.

So So I was like, Oh man, th these guys are living the dream, like working in this dope office and You know, and then reality hits when you actually move here and it's like oh that is up that is like one of a million, so uh Sean, do you think that that place costs more than two million dollars to decorate? Uh no, no that's a little bit much, but

Th the we got lucky because Uh you know my main investor and the guy who actually started the lab, he owned the building. So first so he was the landlord. It's not like we were paying some crazy rent uh, you know, to some landlord. So he had bought this building uh in two thousand eight, two thousand nine, right after the real estate crash. So he scooped it up for super cheap. Some I don't know, like A couple of million bucks I think he got this on this building that was

at the time, seven different like uh lofts, like apartment lofts, and he just smashed down the walls and combined them into a giant live work space and he left one loft. So there's actually an apartment at the top. So it's three stories of office uh like office floors, but we only use the top floor for desks. The second floor we turned into like ping pong like the classic, you know, stereotypical stupid startup blowing money thing. It's like ping pong table, snack room. We turned we created a weight room in there, like to exercise in. Um The third floor was wherever his desk is and the fourth floor was just uh

this loft, this apartment where you could just crash in if you stayed late. And so my first year there, I slept in that apartment two hundred days out of the three sixty five of the year. It was basically my house. Uh Jeremy Yeah, I mean like the this office it also had like all It had like a Mac one computer, like the first Mac. Right. I remember I picked up a coaster once. Uh so so the story is so the so Michael and Zochi Birch owned the building, they started the lab, uh they had had a ton of success. So they wanted to work in like their dream environment. So they built their dream environment, which most entrepreneurs can't afford to do. They own the building, they did the renovation. They have this one design of this guy, Ken Folk, who is like,

This like kinda designer to the stars type of guy. And he's like wild. Like Um Like you have art behind you, Sam. This guy would come in every two months and just rotate the art. So we would come into the office one day and like all the art had changed, but you wouldn't notice because they're the same position, but it's just a different picture in there. And he was just like an elf that would like turn over the office with new shit all the time. And I was like, Are we paying for this? What's going on? And I remember picking up a coaster And it said seven hundred dollars on a sticker under the coaster is still on there. Do you think it was seven hundred for one coaster? No, I think it was probably the the rack, the the stack of six or whatever. But I was like seven hundred dollars and uh you know that was that was crazy to me. Like it had mirrors that were one way mirrors. So you would go to the restroom

And when you would look out the m the the window, though they say the mirror, the the wall of the restroom, it looked like everybody could see you peeing. Uh, but it was actually a one way mirror, and when they looked at you, they they they just saw a mirror, they couldn't see you peeing. Um And so we got I wanna we have to ask Jeremy who he is and what he does. But before we get there, I do wanna say one thing. To you, Sean. Yesterday.

I foster I began fostering a dog. And I just want to make the announcement that if Time Magazine decides to honor me with person of the year because I'm doing this You accept. I I I'll accept. So if anyone needs a dog, follow me on Twitter. I got a Find this dog at home. Is it stray? Like you just took it in?

No, I like signed up. I'm just Being a saint, that you know, whatever. I'm just I'm an angel. So I just want everyone to know that. What what are you covering up for? What you what'd you do that made you want to go out and do a good deed? Just I'm just a s I'm just a saint. So if follow me on Twitter and and someone uh come adopt this dog. Jeremy, uh who are you? Uh yeah, I um I uh am the founder and CEO of a company called Italic, and um and uh and also

Um a co founder with my girlfriend of a company called Not Pot. Um Both of which are companies in econ. So happy to dive into either and and share more. And that's not pot dot c not pot like weed. It is it is literally not put. It is a it's a it's a American I I I usually say it's an American wellness brand, but yes, it's a C B D brand. Um it's been around for No, but I just mean how do you spell it? P O T, right? N O T, P O T, so not PUT. Um

Great name, by the way. Was that the first name that came to you or uh I mean I can't take credit for any of the creative that's all that's all Katie. She's the the genius there, but um Yeah, yeah, that's uh that's my day to day. And then Italic, we've talked about before, uh Amazing Company. I believe I don't know if we've signed the papers yet. I believe I'm an investor officially in the company at some point. Uh I think it's an amazing concept. You guys basically and tell me if I get this wrong, I'll I might butcher it. You guys basically have

Um high end kind of premium goods. So it could be bags jackets, scarves, a whole bunch of different skews. Um that are the same manufacturers that do, you know, production for Gucci and Prada and like all the big brands. And basically you offer those same quality products without the brand name label and therefore Almost like at factory pricing. So you become an italic member. As a member, you get access to this like sort of factory pricing of premium goods. If you want quality, but you don't want to you don't want to overpay 10 X for the label.

Essentially. Yep, exact that's exactly right. So um so yeah, and and and uh to anyone who Uh we've okay, for what it's worth, we've never done this before, so this is the first time we're ever doing it. Like for anyone who wants to try it out, I did make a code. Uh it's MFM Pod, I think, and you get a free uh year which is normally one hundred twenty bucks for a membership. I don't I actually don't even know like how big this podcast is, so I I hope I didn't just Shoot myself there. Break your business. Mf pod M F Pot. M F M Pot. Yeah. So so it's italic.com slash MFM pod.

Jeremy, I'm a customer of yours. I'm a paying member. I wish I would have been able to use this. I I own your knives and a coat. Oh thank you. Well thanks thanks for supporting us. I uh you know well promised to to keep supporting you there. Um But yeah, I mean uh the the the the the idea is basically, you know, um I think when most people start brands or or companies in ecom, like you normally start it could you could be if you're a venture type of founder, you're like, Okay, you're two MBAs and you're like, Okay, I'm gonna sell XYZ online because it's a big market. Or you're like a lifestyle brand, you you wanna kinda bootstrap this up. But I think for for Italic really the the goal is to

um kind of build the suite of tools and technology to empower manufacturers to become merchants of their own. Um and Italic obviously, you know, does well by kind of building the the pipes and the rails to kind of provide access to a global market, but Um, to a customer, it's like a killer value prop, right? You're getting high quality products from the same factories as the these really premium, you know, legacy heritage brands. Um and it's well designed, you know, it's it's um You know that they're quality goods, but we're offering them at prices that are like sixty, seventy, eighty percent, you know, lower than what brands do. Um and uh and then we we monetize through, you know, to your point the the membership. So it's like the Costco model. Exactly, right.

And how big's the business? It's pretty I mean, we started about two years ago and we just launched the membership. So we're we just crossed like the 10,000 member mark. Um and uh and Things are are pretty good. Like most members, um, you know, I think in e comm also nowadays you typically see like one of two things if you want to hopefully make it and and it's like you either have to be profitable on first purchase or you know hopefully you have enough replenishment or frequency of use to come back. And um really the goal with Italic and also I think most of the times like you have

There was this narrative of like, hey, we're gonna start in this one category, like raise a whole bunch of money to capture it, and then hopefully like raise more money to enter into new verticals, and that like almost never works. Um so it was important for us to also start like uh pretty horizontal from day one, so we don't get pigeonholed into like one category of use. Um so yeah people are are are are spending quite a bit. It's um typically Uh right now we're

about one order a month per member and uh members are getting to like six seven hundred dollars of spend and uh the first uh six months there it's been It's been good, yeah. It's been a good start. Dude, I I know I know successful ecom brands that are no have half those economics. So I think that's a a very solid uh place to be. Yeah, I mean the the other thing I I will say though, you know, for what it's worth, and and uh I don't I don't know if this is a good thing to share or not, but I

I I do think most Venture. back decon businesses play themselves up to be bigger businesses than the actual business like is. Yeah. Um there's many more boots up there's like You know, for every italic out there, there's like a thousand plus

Um you know bootstrapped uh econ brands that are doing like multiples of what we're doing. So I wanna ask you about that. That's what I wanna ask you, which is like uh to name names. But I just had a quick question, which is How old are you? I'm twenty five.

Wow. Yeah, prepare to feel bad, Sam. No, you you look young and you I mean you speak maturely, but you you definitely look young. It's very impressive. So so Jeremy, we brought you in and we uh I believe uh I believe a brand you gave you the context of the pot. I don't know if you've listened to the pod, but um the context of the pot is we basically shoot the shit and brainstorm Uh yeah, business ideas. as well as just cool stuff we're seeing or businesses that most people haven't heard about that we can kind of break down and uh walk through like why that business is really interesting. And so uh I don't know, Data Bray you give you that context or are you surprised to hear me say that you're I have a whole list of ideas to to go through with you.

I had to clear them with with Katie who wants to do like Katie's who's my girlfriend uh before, so a couple of these I'm like all right, you can't say that'cause I want to do that. But uh I have a big look. I feel like You know, we a Sean and I have had a handful of people executing our ideas. We had one guy create a a newsletter that we had really kind of went deep on and he sold it for Maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars. Yeah, we're within a few months. Yeah. We we've done it a few times, but in general I would say the ratio of ideas to execution is quite low.

No, I I I mean I totally I I agree with you there for sure. I and in fact I think um I think Trung had mentioned uh Italic like as a as a feature which I'm super appreciative of and a trends um I think newsletter a while ago, but or it was I think it was the hustle newsletter, but um and and in then uh in there at the bottom I think he asked like okay put two ideas and like I got I got I I I count it. I ha I had at least forty people reach out about one of them. And I didn't expect that like never happened. So I I do think people do execute. I I think the percentage to your point is like very low. Um, but also I think um You know, in college, like I or at least like the older you get and in and and tech at least, I feel like the more

You do value good ideas. Um, I think in the beginning it's like ideas are a depth, diamond doesn't, and all that matters execution, blah blah blah. But um I don't know, I I do think like, hey, you could be st setting down a path for five, ten years of your life and you know, if it's not a good idea, you kinda just wasted it. You didn't waste it. You learned a lot. But like, you know, it it could have been better if you um did spend a little bit more time on on the idea side. So I I do think ideas are are valuable.

So let's pop let's pop in one idea. So let's take one idea off your list and let's see what we're working with. Give me like a B plus idea. Don't give me an A idea yet. I'm not ready for the A. Warm me up with a b to B plus. Um Okay, so I'm gonna pull up my list right now. Okay. Uh I I've got so Oh, by the way, before I got in, like I I think um the the the one thing I was curious about to to hear is like is most of your audience kind of interested in like building venture back businesses, life like We talk about it we you know, we we talk we talk about everything. We have a lot of people like the venture back guys They'll hear a story of a YouTuber making three million bucks a year and they're like

That is awesome. They're like, Whoa, I gotta start a YouTube channel. And then the bootstrap guys who have a bill business that makes eight hundred grand and they pay themselves a hundred thousand dollars, they love it because. Sean and I will talk about someone who did the X, Y, and Z and now it's in like a hundred million a year. No, no, y you know why they love it? Cause we'll be like, Yeah, this business, they just got valued at 150 million dollars. They're doing seven million in revenue, and then there's some guy with like an elevator, you know, repair business who's like, We do 14 million? We could does that mean we're valued at three hundred million dollars? And it's like

They're like part angry, part curious about like what the fuck's going on with these venture back companies. So there's definitely interest on both sides. You see the transition once in a while though. I I think, uh, you know, between the two, you know, with like Anyways, I'll I'll I'll I'll get so one of the um One of the ideas I jotted down like at the start of COVID, um when people started staying home a lot was um this idea for a subscription box and um And I think you know subscription boxes, I think nowadays have like a bad rep, you know, you after companies like Blue Apron and whatnot.

Um, but uh but I think for this one it could be a a a niche. Um there's a huge rise in interest in um can be home cooking. So is the idea was a subscription bread of the month club. So make your own bread, we send you the ingredients, you can call it doughy, dough girl, dough daddy, yeast club. No, whatever. Um I love that you came with the names. I like DoeDaddy and Doe Daddy. That was a winner. Hold on, let me go to let me go to GoDaddy real quick and see if I can snatch that. DoughDaddy. I don't care what my product is, the next domain is gonna be Doe Daddy. Do do you know anyone who runs a a box? Yeah. There are some that like have really flown under the radar and have like exploded like what?

Uh I mean, I I I think the the best example I would just share is like, you know, BabFit Fun is like this company that I think venture investors have overlooked for a long time now. Um and uh and I think it's just like you know, it's very consistent compounding growth. They they've um this year specifically they really exploded, I think, with COVID. So Can can I give you the background or what I know about FabFit Fun and you could kinda you can kinda fill in the blank. So FabFit Fun I researched them a bit.

Because Uh so my business is the hustle. We're uh a an email business, or it starts it started that way. Uh I think FabFit Fun also started that way. So I think it was they gave Uh fitness and beauty related tips to young women via an email, right?

So they built that up. to like tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people and they go, All right, well Let's make money in a different way than advertising and they launched this box. And I think they've been around for around ten years, right? And they're based out of LA. I think they raised a little bit of money to start, but not not a significant amount. And they have since grown it to something like

Is it Do they have two hundred thousand subscribers or more? I don't remember the exact um number of subscribers, but like top line wise they're in hundreds of millions. Um Yes, and they send a quarterly box, right? That's right. Yep, yep. And and the the interesting thing that they've done and and I think you know, we we've thought about a lot as well is they've created lock in, you know, post purchase. So right now, I think that the nuance with subscription um businesses is oftentimes uh there's a number of types of subscriptions, but like oftentimes The product is the subscription. So like for Spotify, for example, when you pay the subscription, like you are getting Spotify. You're getting access to Spotify and that's the product. You don't have to pay additional same with FabFit Fund, although they do upsell you.

Um, I think what we've seen with Fapit Fun and Even Stitch Fix as well, it's like they want to move towards one time purchases that go outside of subscription frequency. Which is always like, you know, the grass is always greener. And then the flip side is like for you know companies that are more transactional or like one time purchases, how do we layer on more frequency of use, whether that's a subscription box or not. So H How has FabFit Fund done that, do you think? Like what can what can I learn from them? Well what they've done You know, I think the the common trope is like, you know, if you're a media business, you should be doing ecom. And if you're an ecom business, you should be doing media. And like

Frankly that like Nine times out of ten, that like never works. It's right. It's and I would actually go as far as saying it's much harder to do the second where you're e-comm and you're trying to build media. But um but I do think Fat Fund has done that, you know, in an interesting way. Like post purchase, you get access to a community that actually like retains you. Um If you try to turn the lock like people will post like I'm I'm thinking about canceling and people will actively say like hey, don't cancel, like here's why Um I'm still a member. Um But what's the what's the

Like a ki a good community is like a good cult. Yeah. Which means you have like a a c w what belief system Yeah, like cults all have like an identifiable leader. They have like an us versus them mentality. They have a a unified belief. They have a um a a series of rituals that you typically have to do and they're inclusive. What is the what is the belief system that all like what We have this thing called trends. It's all it it has like this m entrepreneurial thing. What's like the Us versus them mentality. Well I think when it comes to

Like well, I think in in ecom you can either sell You know, one of Uh, I guess like one of three things. And like one is um you know, you can sell the uh the concept of value and it's like hey you're getting a good You know, paying for your buck or you're getting like

um a a deal that you feel smart about or you're in the know or whatever it is. Um, and I I think for Fab of Fun it it is like the value sense. And you know, value is not like an easy thing to build a community around, but like there are people who are like really passionate about like saving that extra dollar. Um and even though they won't necessarily talk about it that way, I think um that community like does bond around that. I think there's others where I guess the other two I was gonna say is like one is um kind of around the uh the the you know, the the actual use case. So I think like the best, you know, recent example is probably Peloton, in which You know, people just love being Pelton users and NPS is super high, churn is extremely low.

um you know, and so on and so forth. But I think the third is is actually interesting and there's like a cultural one. I think um You know, for for and I'll speak directly with like uh our our kind of counterparts, but Um companies like Glossier and which is oftentimes touted as like the leading kind of sk skin care slash beauty brand in in the venture ecosystem.

Um, even though they actually do oftentimes less run rates than like the the bootstraps kind of lesser known um you know, uh lesser known brands. Um I I think, you know, they put out this feeling of like, hey. We are this cool millennial girl in a big city, and you know, we put out this feeling that you're it's like a cool twenty five year old, right? The customer set is actually like high schoolers. Um, and I think I I can name a bunch of other examples like this. Like a way, for example, I think when they started this cool millennial like product, you know, got all these influencers, but the actual customer in the beginning was probably business travelers. So um so I think, you know, I think there's areas to build like an aspirational like you know community where it's like, hey, I want to achieve that. And um there's these leaders in our space, like for example, with um

Away maybe it was like Carly Closs, or maybe with Glossy, it was actually the CEO Emily. um who built that like aura of like celebrity. But um but I think that's actually the hardest to maintain because you know Customers are flippant and and they'll kind of like churn out. Say something about something you just said, and Sean, you might like this. So

At the hustle. We do giveaways sometimes. So like sign up for the hustle and you win a MacBook Pro. One time we gave away a Tesla. Like a thirty thousand dollar Tesla. And

When we do these giveaways There's these websites. I I'd have to go and remember what they're called. But it's like super savers or it's like There is this And and we get so much traffic from it. It's crazy. And if you Google like

The hustle giveaway. There's these huge communities. And we get so much traffic from it and it's mostly middle America stay at home moms. And they are doing giveaways like crazy. They are all about saving money. Like We have these socks that say hack

act now that's very Coastal male. Branding. And they don't like I'm like normally if it were like if it costs a little bit of money, they wouldn't want that. But because it's free, they're obsessed with it.

And like it we have a T shirt that says always be hustling and like Bailey from Missouri, who's got three kids, doesn't want like an always be hustling show. Like that's that's not her mantra, probably. But they love this crap. And This Fab Fit Fun thing is sounds like it's tapping into that community of this like stay at home mom. Bargain hunter

I have been surprised. Another company that's similar to that is thepennyholder.com, which we talked about recently, which recently just sold for a hundred million bucks or one twenty or something. It's a crazy community. Yeah, probably not the best customer set. Uh right because I think um the the You know, even though the set like the the The area where most people chase are like okay, I wanna sell to people like me, right? So that's like typically for us, it's like bicostals, big city, middle high income, leans left, well educated, you know, so on and so forth.

Um, but I think the actual most consistent um customer that's actually the cheapest to acquire is the middle American mom. Um and she's also the like a pretty big spender, too. Um, and if you get her loyal to one thing, like she's gonna be with you for, you know, years and years and years. Um, and I think that's what a lot of like venture um uh, you know, uh brands kind of overlook sometimes is like that's actually who you should be going for. Uh I mean, you can make the comparison to like DoorDash versus you know, what what post postmates did, like city versus suburb, but Um, but I I I don't know. I I I think I would actually say they're they're a great customer. Um Yeah, I I totally agree. Sean, did you ever see the analytics for SoPub?

So Soap Hub was our friend's soap opera news website. Have you seen the analytics? Uh I've seen you guys posted something about it. You did a blog post. I've seen what you post publicly. 'Cause I met him after he sold it. We had the founder of Bleacher Report. Look at so we have this friend who has this blog, all they did was blog about soap operas. And we had the founder of Bleach Report look at his Google Analytics and he goes, I've never seen engagement like this. And it was all Middle America Moms. I'm telling you, that market's good. No, I I totally agree. The middle America Mom is a great market. The

Um super save the like the what's the first not penny hoarders, but the one you just said before that. The ones who basically like I I don't know if that's actually a thing. They're professional like contest enterers. That's not the best, right? They're the ones who are trying to leach your your programs and be like oh Cool, they have a referral bonus. Let's create a giant referral chain and like milk this baby into like so hard and it's like, Man, this is like It's like eight dollars, just buy it. It'll be easier. And sometimes it's okay. Like, for example, for Italic, your value proposition is value, right? You're getting amazing good at like a fraction of the price that you would normally pay. So attracting the value shopper is the right the right move, probably. Um, whereas if your thing is all about status, like for example, um My wife has this e commerce business and one of the kind of core things that people do is collect. They Uh, you know, like I've only I've only ever seen businesses where you chase customers, you're trying to tell customers to buy from you. Uh her business, they do new style drops of like, you know, a new product uh every you know, every Friday. And

People are lining up. So it's like an Apple, you know, like an iPhone launch. So basically you have to infl you have to implement these rules that you can't buy more than X of of every product because it like it's selling out too quickly, type of thing, right? So I've never even seen somebody limit a cart. It's like, aren't you always trying to build the cart to be bigger? And it's like, no, no. We have it where you can max buy two items because, you know, we have to it's like You know, when hand sanitizer was flying off the shelves and grocery stores had to had to put a limit on it, that's what happens there because that's a collector's mentality. They want They wanna get every one of the new the new like stuff that comes out because it's rare. And they will wake up in the morning early to be at their computer trying to get it within one minute of the of the drop. Like all the revenue happens in a like 120 second period and then it's like over for the day. I dig it. I'm into it.

That's a that's a good idea. Um It's almost like I mean it it's real scarcity, but it's also like by enforcing I think the more often you like Uh reinforce the scarcity of a of a product to a a a very active audience. Like

But do so in a classy way the better. Um, it's almost like Black Friday, right? It's like hey, you can get this in this very short bounded period of time and then it's it's gone and you're gonna have to wait another year. So Um I know it's a totally different comparison, but uh Yeah, it makes sense.

Cool. What what else you got? I have so many. I don't know like how fast you want to meet uh me to go through. I have um I okay, so I have like venture tech businesses and I have like more standard, you know, like That's fine. Well well, okay, what did we just cover? I mean subscription uh bread of the month I I think would be great for like someone who wants to just start something, you know, and and you can you know start it small and I And why why bread? Why'd you pick bread versus margins are you can I mean if you position it as like a premium product, or you you um pro position it as like a utility. Hey, like we're skipping the grocery store, you're gonna do this anyways. You want the best yeast, you want w whatever it is, like here's a starter kit. Um I think the margins on that and the re um the uh the retention will be really strong if you can deliver on that. And it's also like, you know It doesn't have to be expensive. So

Um And also bread's hot right now, Sean. Don't you know this? Well that's what I'm saying. Like give me the give me the Trent. Uh Mr Trent. Everyone knows about Britain. B banana bread in particular is going through the roof, right now. Everybody knows this. Everybody knows banana bread is through the roof. Nobody knows. Nobody knows banana bread is through the roof. I'll bring you do you know this? Anyone who has an Instagram or a TikTok knows that home baking in bread, particularly banana bread. You can't use a brain. He works for you. Jeremy, am I right or wrong? Is uh is banana bread like surging right now?

Yeah, I'm j I'm just jealous you're not talking about parents. Okay, so someone actually did I forgot um so I did see this in the wild somewhere and I thought they did it. Did a good job with that. But okay, so th that was one idea. Um Hold on one, let me tell you one thing I like about that, by the way. I think that the you want to make bragworthy products, meaning Can the product after the consumer has it, is it Instagram worthy? Will they share this on Instagram or TikTok, the thing that they're doing? Because that's gonna drive a lot of your adoption. And this is a such a good one where it's like it's an interesting thing making bread is something people m don't usually do, but the skill cap is actually probably pretty low. You're actually gonna be able to do it and have a good output. Um and then lastly it's bragworthy. It doesn't look like a brag, like

If you bought something expensive and you share it, well, that's only a certain type of person would do that. But I think a lot of people would happily share that they're doing a fun thing today in quarantine, which is like baking bread at home and shit happy with how it turned out. So I I love the bragworthiness of that idea. I think there's a lot of like subscription things that you you can do that are not like you won't have fatigue. Like you know, you the the downside, I think, of subscription food, for example, or subscription uh apparel is like it is, you know, it's limited to quarterly or in the in the case of food, like if you do let's say you actually want to go out to eat, right? Like what are you gonna do with your box? You you you feel like you have to cook it at some point. So right. Anyways, I I think subscriptions are are are super interesting when it comes to actually like product boxes. Um I think the another idea that that's a little bit more this can go either way. I think um I listened to one of your podcasts and I think you guys mentioned Sundays, uh which I I love that business. I think it's like super smart. You you want to recount what it is. Oh, so it's it's basically like um it's a it's a suite of products that like um uh kind of provide uh lawn care. Um

Uh How do you put it? It's it's kinda like um Uh products to help People who have lawns take care of their lawn. Um and they it to dumb it down, it it's a round up alternative that has no chemicals and is D to Ced. Or whatever you what d d to C defide. Well, I mean, for people who who've lived in uh cities, I don't even know if they would know what Roundup is. So um I think that I mean that's I I think that's part of the whole suburban like kind of market. And yeah.

Weed killer. Yeah, a another um This is, I think, a smaller, you know, total addressable market, but I think the the basket size could be larger is uh doing a similar thing for pool care. Um the number of pools out there are is huge. Um there's actually a lot of like software built for you know these pool services um and so on and so forth, but Uh when you actually do research into the the products that they use. It's like it's like It's really kind of gnarly, old school looking, you know, chemical based stuff. So that was one idea. Um

Do you guys first of all, there's this company called Leslie Pool S uh did you guys grow up at Pools? No. I have one now. I this is the first pool I've ever had. So I used to go to the store called Leslie with my dad, I would go there called Leslie Pool Supplies. All they do it's like a relatively small rinky dink store, and you go and you buy like a variety of bleaches. I mean it was all pretty harsh stuff.

They have a market cap, I just looked it up, of five billion dollars. Um it's just a chain of like small stores. J you guys probably didn't experience this, but if you have blonde hair, these chemicals were so strong that if if I would swim too much, my hair and if you're like a white blonde person, your hair turns green. Yeah. Have you ever seen that? No, but that's that's an amazing uh amazing way to position an alternative. So

So there was a guy who reached out from the podcast, a listener who said, Hey Um I have a product. I I can't remember the name. Sam, you might know this guy also. He might have reached out to you as well. Ravi? Oh, I don't know what his name is, but the his product was basically a modern day pool maintenance subscription thing. Kind of like what you're talking about, Jeremy. So what he's doing is, you know, in pools they have this like floating little buoy that's kinda like a monitor. Um so normally the pool guy comes, he sticks this little thing in there and he checks the like chemical, the pH levels. and you know figures out what's going on. So this guy had basically created a smart sensor. So like it's just a floating thing in your pool. Anytime on your phone you can go check the pH levels, you can see if there's like you know what the temperature of the pool is, whatever. And then uh they sell you this kind of like chemical packs, the little like essentially like tide pods that you put into this thing and it like you know like treats your pool.

And um I was like, that is a great business idea. And he was doing pretty well. I think it's kinda like low seven figures a year in revenue. Yeah, his name is uh Uh it's called MySutra. So MySutro.com, S U T R O, MySutro.com. His name's Ravi. He actually uh was a founder's dojo guy, Sean. So that's how I knew him. Gotcha. He's a good he's a good dude. He's been at this for years. It it does I don't know why this actually hasn't isn't significantly larger. Yeah. Right. Actually I think um

Uh a lot of like this is so kind of this is like I I think you guys have talked about like constellation and uh software and like, you know, um there's so and and um What was the company? service Titan or something. There's so many like opportunities in these like niche neighborhood businesses that you think are like so you know most people would think are so small, but there's like m literally tens, if not hundreds of thousands of these businesses like across the US alone.

And um and providing like verticalized soft this is not um I I still don't think it's a venture. Uh business but like pr pr building straightforward verticalized software for those use cases, um, such as pool maintenance, which I know exists like to a large degree, uh, because I did my own research on it, but um I I I think you could do this for a number of those for

That was actually not on my list. Um uh but I I can keep going if you want. I I I could kind of run through a couple if you want or um Yeah, keep going. All right. Uh I've got one. Um so I I think Stripe Atlas, uh, for those who don't know is um basically company um uh formation as a service. And you know, this is not new by any means. Um, you know, and plenty of people have done this from Clerky to um I think the new there's a new one called First Base and whatnot. Generally costs like between, you know, maybe three hundred to a thousand dollars, depending on the the state and and service. But I think there are uh verticals for um uh administration like that that is more um niche and you can actually charge more for. So For example, trust fund administration, I think could be interesting as a as a service. Um

There's a lot of like I basically I think Jeremy, d describe Clerky, because I was a user of Clerky. And I think they've gone out of The I don't know if they've gone out of business, but it's kinda like On autopilot, it seems.

Yeah, I think so. I I've used uh I've used Clerky for two companies in the past, um, and it's It was amazing. Yeah, I mean it it's basically a standardized set of um uh uh documents that you can use for company formation as a Delaware C Corp, which is what most you know, venture businesses would would form as and um and you can do it for like Yeah, it it's so cheap. Uh I think the danger with Clerky is like Every founder out there uh who's listening like

Who's new, um the eighty three B process you like really have to be careful of. You you just I'm not gonna explain the whole thing, just like make sure you do your research and actually like file the eighty three B so that you are purchasing your You know, shares. Uh you ha the reason why I bring it up is like there's a time limit, but Clerky almost screwed us twice on that. So that was kind of one. uh uh downside with it versus a an actual, you know, dedicated service. But Um yeah, I think it's on autopilot and I'm sure they're So Clerky is like they had maybe forty documents that were standardized, but it had a docusign component. And I think it was

Nine dollars a document. And we had thirty six investors and so we sent this to them. So thirty six times let's say ten bucks. So we only paid them three hundred and sixty bucks. But it was one of those services, Sean and I you actually just discussed this the other day, where you start using it and you're like Oh, it's only this much money, whatever. You just keep doing it, and you keep doing it, and you keep doing it and it slowly adds up. Yeah. All right, one more. Um I I've so much Okay.

Uh one is homeschooling software. I think there's a lot of um you know, this is I think a a significantly growing trend um in homeschooling, not just because of COVID. I think COVID was an accelerant. Um so providing software that is um and I think there's a venture company called Primer doing something kind of akin to this, but Um providing things like attendance, report cards, grading, test generators, admin services where you basically can run a homeschool for you, or even a marketplace of, you know, having like dedicated Um home schooling teachers um That was one. Uh so let's talk a little bit about that.

I was a little bit surprised to learn that About three to four percent. of uh sc you know like school aged kids um do home schooling. And that was higher than I thought it would be. Um it's still a low percentage, but you know, we're talking about a a a a population of two and a half to three million And now with Covid, you know, like

easily double that uh you know will will come out of this. And so let's call it we have two and a half million customers Three million maybe as a round number. And that's just in the US. And they have very uh specific set of challenges. So if you want to homeschool your kid First the each state

has a different process to like establish yourself as like a legal homeschool person. So I have a friend who started their business doing Stripe Atlas, one of the the previous idea for homeschooling. So like, hey, just type in your kids' name and birthday and all that, and we will file the homeschooling paperwork for you. You don't have to figure out what the state of Georgia requires you to do for that. Then, you know, so they they got a bunch of people who were like, oh good, because I didn't know how to do this. Um, the second problem that that that parents have is you're supposed to document all the work that your kid is doing. So you have to like take photos of their worksheets and blah, blah, blah. So There's like a whole like where do you put those photos? It's just in your camera roll alongside all your other life photos. That doesn't seem very good. So um so you could build like, you know, so that's the second part of the stack is like the record keeping. Third part of the stack, well, what worksheets should they even be using? Are you gonna create your own curriculum? Like most people who homeschool Or not. like gonna be creating a full set of curriculum with like really good worksheets and whatnot. So they need to access

What the heck do I teach my kid on a day to day basis? So that's kinda like one whole stack and there's a company called Go Primer that's going after it. uh my friend Farza started going after that. He pivoted to something called Zip School, which so Zip School basically is t is doing the Bill Nye the Science Guy live on Zoom. So what he did was he created he he found all these teachers who were kind of like out of work or had extra time, and he filtered them for like who has the biggest personality and can kind of like pop on Zoom. And what he does is like it's like after school education. So you have a kid at home, um, and whether you're homeschooling them and you just want for one hour for them to be with this digital teacher, or after school, you just want them to like learn more science or whatever. And all his topics are kind of like Magic School Bus or Bill Nye the Science Guy, where it's like

Let's learn about Rockets. And it's about like actually like what Elon Musk is doing with rockets. Like something That's interesting that you don't like It's just not the like cookie cutter school lesson. Um, or like why, you know, why sharks are not the scariest animal in the ocean, right? It's like stuff like that, that's like it's very intriguing to a student. And then they have a teacher with a green screen behind them and they kinda like

Live teach a class with like kind of like some low end special effects so that it's interesting. And all the kids are just kind of like on mute and they like unmute to like say things from time to time or whatever. And parents pay like a pretty low subscription. It's like pay 50 bucks a month for your kid to be able to go to three, four, or five classes a month. And um so he raised a little bit of money from Andreason Horowitz, uh, because there was a little bit of momentum. He was getting classes where he started with like Like you know, five students showed up. And he was running Facebook ads and for very cheap he was acquiring users like

I wanna say sub a dollar he was acquiring users during COVID because every parent in America was like, Shit, how the hell am I supposed to teach my kid uh A, I need a babysitter and B, like I need to like educate my kid because they're like out of school for so long. And so he was getting people to come in and he was joining classes and these classes got up to like 500 people. They were breaking the zoom limit of like how many people can be in one session. And now they do like more like smaller group classes, I think because people are more willing to pay for that. Uh, but I thought this was very interesting. The idea of taking the old Bill Nye the science guy model. So so where do we get the home news? I mean, what's going on with that company now? It's going I think it's going fine. They they have a bunch of teachers on the roster that each you know, this guy specializes in space, this guy specializes in science and surgeries or whatever different topics. And uh they do small group classes of like six to eight people. And uh uh of a of like after school education, basically. And Covid still has like so many p it's hard to know what's gonna happen to this business.

Post COVID. But I would say like this is like a variation of homeschooling. It's not pure homeschooling. It's either something you can add into your homeschooler's day for an hour, or it's a Uh hey, I t I send my kid to public school, they come home from school and like they want to watch TV and stuff anyways. Well, we could do this for thirty minutes instead, and I feel like at least my kid got like enriched a little bit. Uh and I'm I'll happily pay the equivalent of like ten bucks a week for how to have this tutor basically tutoring my my kid over Zoom. Uh, but it's done in an educating, uh entertaining way. By the way.

Sean. Are you just wearing a robe? Yes. Okay. I I just I just noticed that. I just thought we should get that out of the way. You're were you like It's audio only, baby. Uh we w I don't know if anyone sees these clips, so I just assume it's audio only. I'm in a room. Alright.

Yeah. I I I wanna get three out first, uh and then I'll I'll kind of shut up for a bit. Um one is I'm I'm personally I I I think you you guys might be into this, but I I'm I've been really into the idea of like franchises for a long time. I think it's like you know, I think um sometimes I I think people, you know, in in in our ecosystem, at least like will look down on these types of businesses, but some of them like are phenomenally profitable and they're extremely capital efficient. And it's a really lightweight way to build kind of a brand and a go to market, you know, strategy without actually having to kind of be a a super rich, you know, person to to start or raise a bunch of money. Um I think there's there's um opportunities to to modernize a lot of the kind of legacy franchises. So for example, um, are you guys familiar with a company called Sonder? Um

Oh yeah. Uh hotel kind of company. Yeah, so they basically like take over people's leases and they manage the properties. And originally there's a listing platform to um you know, they would take those properties and they would list it on like Cruxlist or B and so on and so forth and get, you know, they would manage it. Um uh and then I think um More recently they're starting to like aggregate the demand on their side so that people actually go to Sonder dot com and then, you know, actually book directly. Um, so they don't have to pay the fee. You know, I I think they're like I think the largest, like one of the largest um list like unified listers on Airbnb at some point. But um I think there's an opportunity to do something similar with um

With uh with actually fitness centers and gym. Um uh you know, the concept exists for hotels, like you know, you'll have like Marriottes or whatever come over and kind of manage the um property, but um uh I think gyms right now, like you have either You have like a I think a bifurcation in the market of like really low end gym, um, which you you might pay like a depending on where you are, like 10, 20, 30, 40 bucks um a month for, or you have like the really premium gyms of which they're like, you know, some in in in LA it was like two hundred or two twenty five per month for an equinox. And it's an annual subscription and it's a huge upfront commitment. Um I think there's a mid market opportunity uh mid market opportunity to do something similar. Um and uh I mean Sonda is familiar to I think the US audience. There's also like Oyo rooms, you know, internationally, um, which has done this for hotels, but at a very s like very, very low end budget kind of model. I think there's an opportunity to to do something in the mid market for um for fitness centers and gyms. Right right now, obviously it's like the worst time to to do this, but

An idea that I think uh is interesting. Um along the same lines um I think there's a rul opportunity to do uh um uh something similar in convenience stores. Um this is actually an area that I've I've uh it's like super unsexy, but like it's a huge like there's so much volume that goes um into convenience stores and it's it's for an obvious reason, right? Like there's companies like GoPuff or whatever, but I believe I I think like They'll get to maybe 10, 15, 20% market saturation penetration at most kind of like what Ecom is right now. Um, I think convenience stores will probably always exist, but right now, like it's super you know, in New York you have bodegas and like suburbs you have like seven elevens, but um I think there's an opportunity to either do a roll up, um And the reason why I think there's an interesting use case there is like right now, convenience stores are retailers and they have to buy wholesale from

uh brands or distributors and they don't have any negotiation leverage as an independent um uh like as a one kind of man show or or you know a small shop. But I think if you had a a larger um uh kind of supply base to to purchase off of Um, that could be interesting. And you could do it either as a franchise model or as a roll up of your own. And I also think um the McDonald's uh you can tell them all over here, but like uh there uh you know the McDonald's model, how like franchisees will actually buy um they'll buy the license to become a franchise, but then McDonald's will actually buy the the real estate. And then the uh the sale, the proceeds from the actual um franchise will actually go towards the real estate purchase. I think that actually could be interesting because convenience stores have like the best real estate possible in like a lot of these bigger cities, um, and sometimes suburbs, because they're in the middle of like a town. Um

I don't uh Sam, I don't know if you were gonna say anything there. I think uh No my wheels are turning. I'm thinking I'm scheming in my head. Um this is this is a fun one. Like for anyone who runs a uh an American factory, there's a lot of these like smaller kind of, you know, uh let's say two thousand to five thousand square foot factories in the US. I think there's actually opportunities to create like really uh well loved high affinity branded factories. I know this sounds really weird, but like

Think Willy Wanka and the chocolate factory. If you run a chocolate factory and you like did a daily show on like, hey, I'm grinding like, you know, I just got my shipment of you know cacao. I'm like going through the roasting process, or you could do it for coffee. I think there's actually a lot of opportunity for building brands online. Um, I think Emma Chamberlin like has I mean, she she's this is a very far fetched example, but like what she's Oh, I'm a I'm a Chamberlain's um like one of the biggest YouTube um Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love this woman. I I just discovered her. What did she do? I don't know her. She's a just a a yeah.

A cool Yeah, she's just a YouTuber, but she's like pretty cool. I don't know. She's like You know, like obviously cute and charming and entertaining. It's like a very um Nothing yeah but but interesting she like the the I I I think you know you guys talked about the um I think it's clout kitchens, which I love, by the way. I think like those guys are, you know, uh uh Re Reed um and and uh Night Media they're also investors for for a talk as well. But um yeah, great amazing people to have. But I think the You know, most times when people do merch with influencers, it's like it's crap. Like you're not you're gonna buy it.

Like maybe if you're a super fan, but like you know, it's a T shirt. Like what are you actually gonna do with it? Um, but I think when you do things that are like really on brand. So for example, what Emma did was she partnered with a um Uh a a coffee manufacturer who's really into coffee, she partnered with the coffee manufacturer and launched Chamberlain Coffees. And I think like they're probably doing multiple of what we're doing right now for Italic. So Um I think there's opportunities to do things. So it's wait, let's we we gotta talk about this for a second. So Sean This Emma Chamberlain Google her. She's like nineteen

She's got the she kinda she looks like This I don't know what her stereotype is like Quirky. Quirky, likable, cute. Yeah. I don't know what her stick is. I watched a video of her where she rent a hotel room by herself'cause she wanted a staycation. And I have no idea why I watched it was a twenty minute series.

She's just entertaining. She's good. Her tagline Chamberlain Coffee. Zero bullshit. Just coffee. Uh Chamberlain Coffee. Zero bullshit, just coffee. Like it's it's it's like it's like a legit brand now. It it when it started it was kinda like a you know a crappy Squarespace site. But now like it's a beautiful brand. I think it's like The they that I think that's like an influencer slash celebrity brand done right. And it's so rare, you know.

So do you think Does she own one hundred percent of this, do you think? Uh 'Cause I'm looking it usually here's what and I always I like to go through this stuff with the listeners. What I like to do is on whenever I go to these websites, I scroll all the way to the bottom. And I find out who it owns the copyright or trademark.

Or what the copyright or trademark is. And then if you typically Google it in quotation marks, you can find out who owns it. Do you think but I don't see that on her site. I think I'm I think uh Uh yeah, I don't know. I don't want to speak like

Interactly. But it's not a do you think how much revenue do you think this this woman makes off this the top line sales on Chamberlain Coffee? You think they do more than forty million in sales? No, I I I don't think yet. Um I think they started like um last summer or so. So I think they're they're still getting there, but I I I wouldn't be surprised if they get there pretty soon. Um and it's the best part about coffee is it's subscription, right? So Um, and I think with these types of deals like If you're a factory out there and you know

You you can say like your margins are already crap, right? Like that's the whole point of Italic is to help you, you know, basically earn margin and kind of gain your own. um distribution channel of your own, but but um but if you're saying like hey we can sell a pro and by the way, for factories, like normally they'll make fifteen to twenty percent on top of cost of goods. You know, and this is like depend regardless of the category, regardless of where you are, whether you're in the US or China or you know Italy, it might be twenty five, thirty percent sometimes, but That's like on cost of goods. A brand will buy that and sell it for ten X. Um like normally. So if you even said like hey to a factory, hey, we will do um a fifty fifty revenue split. You're already like on a retail price and you you match what's on par with the rest of the industry, you're basically like

More than five Xing their margins. Um Uh like oh And that's that's not like a normal thing. And and in exchange you're you're they give you what?

uh distribution, um, which is the most expensive part of the game anyways. So um and I think uh You know, I I think that you you talked about this previously as well, but I think like Influencers are la most are lazy, like they don't have an aspiration to go beyond kind of like what they're currently doing. They're happy to do a promo, happy to do whatever. But if you made it really easy and it was just like, hey, Like we have a designer, we have a you know, whatever. Um, it's kind of like we'll build a business in a box for you, but um but it's actually like catered to you. Um in a way like okay, a a a good example is I was looking at a chocolate factory and um in and are right above um

It was in Marin County and uh like really high quality. Why? Why were you doing that? Manufacturers from years and years ago for for not it was originally uh chocolates and then we moved into gummies. Um uh this is like twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, but um they they went for sale and I was like, Okay, this is interesting, might as well actually look. Um there's this guy who's like a sexy Willy Wonka TikTok character. I forgot his name. But just imagine like hey Put literally put that guy in the factory, make him do a video once a day. He's gonna be huge. Like he's already huge. Um and you could do like a golden ticket, you know.

You know, one out of Every thousand you get like a thousand bucks or something like that. Um there's all these like I think it has to be catered for the influencer, but I think there's branded factory opportunities where you have um you know, rough chair and you know, I know there's agents who do this for like skincare and beauty, but like I think beyond the m standard merch and skincare, there's a lot of opportunity that's like a lot more interesting than you know, selling a T shirt.

Um did we talk about the Buckies thing, Sam? Yeah. What is that? Maybe. Okay. So all right, so this is a this is a crazy story. So I got a DM By the way, this is the best part about doing uh doing this podcast is that I just get DMs that are interesting interesting characters.

Yes, my DM for sure open. I had to turn them off for a little while. For what? I don't know. I just didn't want to read up all of them. While you look for that, can we just say this uh Chamberlain coffee thing? I'm buying it. Alright, I'm buying this stuff. This site's beautiful. It's great. It's uh It totally convinced me to buy.

It's end to end like a really well done brand. And you rarely see even for venture back companies that try, like it's very rare that you see that happen. So No, they crushed it. Sam loves cute girls and curly fonts. So he he was in uh at first sight. Alright, so so this guy uh met this guy, Chris, and Chris says, Hey man, I got kind of a crazy story. And I think the hustle might have actually done a feature on this. I'm not 100% sure, but he tells me this story. He goes, So there's this chain of uh kind of like gas stations in Texas called Buckies. I lived in Texas, I didn't even know about this. Uh do you have you guys ever heard of this chain? Most people if you're not in Texas, you probably haven't heard of this. Buckies? Buckies, it's B U uh the gas station. Exactly. They're gas they're known for two things. One, they have the cleanest restroom. So if you're on a road trip or you're stopping, Bucky's is a place to stop because they have the cleanest bathrooms uh uh you know out there, let alone for a gas station.

The second thing is they have a whole bunch of uh snacks. Like they basically have their own branded snacks in the gas station or whatever that you buy and it's built kind of like a cult brand. Uh they're an influencer gas station, if you will. Right? So you get Bucky's that has um this is this l loyal following it's like You know, every kind of region has their version of this. Like uh I went to school in North Carolina and Cookout was like oh you gotta go to Cookout and get the shakes or whatever. Like ever there's these little like regional brands that people just go crazy about. And so This guy, uh Chris, Chris Corner, he

decides to start buying Uh he notices that Bucky's does not have e-commerce. You could buy it in the store, but there's no e-commerce. So he just starts buying Whole bunch of products from the store, and then just selling those same things online. And he's just like, Oh, let me test this out. So he runs some ads, and basically he's like Oh, if you love Bucky's, like here's a way to buy Bucky's beaver nuggets, which are like their little like best selling. Beaver nuggets popcorn type thing, right? Here's their the their chocolate covered milk milk, you know, like chocolate covered thing or whatever. Here's their hat. Here's their mug. And so he just starts selling this kind of like, you know, like on the down low, basically. And um He's and so he calls it TexasSnack dot com or something like that. Uh Texas snacks uh with a X and uh I'll put I'll put the link here.

He starts selling it and uh sure enough, the ads start performing phenomenally. People who see this are like, Oh my God, I love Bucky's. Or my husband loves Bucky, so this is the perfect gift for them. They'll feel so good that So he starts selling this and the ads start performing great. And so he's like Uh yeah, you know, I'm spending X and I here's my ROAS and he's showing me the numbers. I'm like, wow, these numbers are kind of like amazing for e-commerce. And he's like I was like, so what is this just gonna get like shut down or whatever? And he's like, no, actually they reached out and they were like, Hey, this is cool what you're doing. Like we actually tried e-commerce a few years ago. Like we spent three million dollars like setting up e-commerce and it like never went anywhere. We kind of like just ditched it. Um But that's cool that you guys uh are doing this. Like, how can we help?

And he's like, Well, you know, like I'd like to, you know, just get the blessing from you and uh You know, it's like you know, if as long as I'm like an approved vendor, this is great. And the second thing that he did with that was like He's buying it at the retail price. So he's not like asking them for some. He's not eating into their business at all. He's buying it from a store at the retail price. He's just upcharging it from there for people who want it delivered. Um and he himself owns 3PL. So he's like, ah, this is perfect. I can fulfill this really easily. So I loved this little story. I thought this was like a very clever local thing to do.

Basically similar to what we had talked about with Ty Lopez, which is like take these established brands. Herc who reach out to you? Chris. His his Twitter handle is Serial Trep, like Serial Entrepreneur. Um And I saw I was like, You have like fifty thousand followers. How do you uh how do you have so many followers? He's like

Oh, like I was doing some Bitcoin stuff like you know years ago. It got really popular. Uh you know, like you know, John McAfee was uh inviting me to his house for some shit and like kinda got blown up from that. But like yeah, I I changed my domain name now, I changed my handle now so that you know it's more generic, not about crypto. Okay, listen, I'm gonna talk about something that A friend has been telling me that he wants to do it and I I'm gonna I'm gonna mention it because I have to. I'm looking at send eats.com. So if you go to TexasSnacks.com. That's this guy's website. You scroll to the very bottom, it looks like it's owned by Sands.

ZenEats dot com and basically it's a service That Uh how do they describe themselves? They just do it with that bucky thing's for everyone. No, this is the same guy. This is their hi this is his company. So basically they they're a three PL, which basically just means they're like the warehouse and fulfillment. So you store your products there, they sh they pack it and ship it out. To uh your customers for you. And in their about page, they say in 2020 they expanded to cold chain. Do you know what cold chain storage is? It's basically where your control temperature controlled, you know, temperature handled, right?

Yes. And a lot of Insiders of of this space, this legit food logistic. I don't know what you will call, but I've been talking to some friends in that space, and they're many people have said to me cold chained expansion, cold chained storage. Is the number one category for growth. Oh, it's crazy. You you can't you literally can't find a a vendor for it right now. It's uh Like I I'm telling my p my parents have a warehouse in Chicago and um

Uh they they have like a manufacturing business, that's our family business, but Um Uh like I'm I'm trying to get them to like convert. They're a warehouse through cold chain, uh like you know, cold storage. Um So what can you ex I I don't really know too much about what that means in detail. Can you explain to me, Jeremy, what that means? Why is it the need exploding? Is it a COVID thing or just in general? Well, I think it's just in general. Um, uh basically like, you know, that you're sta and by the way, this this is a really interesting area. I I actually personally invested in this company called Air House. It was founded by the uh the founder and CEO of Ship, S H Y P. Um that was my first job in in out of college, uh, and that's when I met Sean. So um

Anyways, cold cold chain and cold chain uh logistics and and storage specifically, um, is you have to have it if you work with like a distributor, um, or you you sell um any perishable product that is not like dry goods. So um so uh so like let's say we're talking about Oatly, for example. I I don't know Oatly supply chain, this is just a guess, but If Oatly wants to distribute that product to Whole Foods, um, you know, they need to store it and they they'll produce it more likely than not in the US right now. You know, those they'll they'll have suppliers, you know, wherever Producer in the US. the uh they'll need to have a pickup and then um which will be a a um a reefer. So like a refrigerator truck. And then um uh and then that reefer will drop it. Yeah, that's what it's called. They drop it off at like that cold store. So you have like those um three PLs like have to have that space allocated. And more often than not, it's like the whole space. It's not like half half.

Um, and it's more expensive store, just more but if you wanna introduce it to Whole Foods, like you have to do it. And retail has just like, you know, popped off ever since COVID. Um Or grocery, not retail. Grocery has popped off ever since um you know Covet started. So Uh and I don't think that's slowing down by any means, especially with like nowadays, um, a lot of the cold storage um Fulfillment s centers used to not do direct to consumer fulfillment. It was purely for retail.

Um, as a lot of these brands transitioned online for COVID, um, I think the need for direct to consumer kind of distribution went up a lot. And the cost of this is really high. Um, and the the in uh both in terms of shipping to a customer, but also the setup cost. So um So yeah, it's th there's basically not enough like cold storage in the US right now for like A new brand if you want to start. Start this company. Don't quit selling pot, not or not pot. Um your par what are your what is your parents warehouse for? They they do uh they've been doing like

very heavy duty industrials manufacturing for a long time. So they've produced parts for like Tesla. Um uh like General Motors, like etcetera, et cetera. So it's like mining, auto. I I was not smart enough to do that. So I uh at least you weren't dumb enough to sell it, Tesla. Like if you were actually involved for Tesla, I think the irony, um I I I I this is not from my parents, but I think it's just in general, like I've heard is um they they come to you saying like Yeah, they're they're big in you know, they're they're just like, Hey, we're this huge

Huge company. But in reality, like the the orders aren't actually that big relative to I mean this is a common story, right? Like Ford ships a zillion times more You know, cars than Tesla does, but like the market. I have a uh quick question, Jeremy. You are somewhat steeped in this V C world, a l a little bit. I mean you you got your foot in it. your family are they

Would they own warehouses? They um they have a manufacturing company. Um so they produce the born and raised here in Chicago. Yeah, I and I'm stereotyping you and and I was right. So they're There are these uh immigrants who came here from and and they're the American dream, right? They started probably a small business. Maybe they had like some type of store and they're like, Oh, we actually should start making the thing and they like have slowly built it up over like two decades, right?

Yeah, in this case four, yep. Great. So the American dream. And pretty traditional, um, right, of like doing it slowly. Probably maybe they took a little bit of debt, but they certainly didn't have investors, right? Yep, yep, yep. Just slow and steady. Yep. Slow and steady. Is it lucrative? Has it done well for them?

Yeah, I think so. I mean I I think um I I actually don't even know the numbers and they won't tell me. So I actually don't know. Another class like super high income, like you know, super rich. I I think we're like very healthy between middle to high income. So So my question is this. What How has your experience of like raising money and trying to like I mean, I'm sure sh maybe they saw that and they were like, This is outlandish, why are you doing this? This is stupid. Uh, maybe, maybe not. I don't know. I mean that's at least how my family was. But

How has your experience and your friends experience different from them and which do you think you like better. Well, that's a huge question, actually. I mean you could ask that to like everyone in Silicon Valley and I think you'd get like a thousand different answers. You know I think when I was growing up. I I I'm sure you guys like probably felt similarly. Like I I think didn't feel perfectly um

You know That's it. The classic Chicago track. And and Chicago's like a very specific Mark I'm from St. Louis, by the way. It's like

You grow up, you become an accountant, you go you go to U VI, you go to you go become an accountant at a big form or work in insurance or at a bar or something. You get married and like your life is not work, it's it's your life, right? And um and you your your your sole purpose is like fulfill you know your family's needs and and continue what so on and so forth. And I think like when you have an immigrant I think another thing I will say is um Growing up Asian in the Midwest is very different than growing up Asian in uh the West Coast and also the East Coast. Like in the Midwest, like You're talking about like Korean churches, you know, super um, like conservative, you know, uh education is everything. Whereas if you grow up in the West Coast, like you have Asians who like

go homeless and then your visions become billionaires. And like neither of those really happened in in the Midwest. So I think um for me I was like, hey, I want to get out of here, um, move to to somewhere else. And I think um in the beginning, like it was a hundred percent like just hustle. I was like, okay, go big or go go home. Like that's the whole reason why I dropped out and did the whole, you know Feel fellowship thing and like all so on and so forth. All of which I'm really, you know, grateful for. But I I think um, you know, as I get older, I I think uh and that's that's the irony of like being twenty five. I I guess like I've been on this path for six, seven years now. And um I feel like ancient by now, but uh relative to a lot of the the newcomers. But I think um You know, uh Now that you've

been in the game for a bit. It's like okay, the the flip side is now like I think when we started in twenty fourteen Ish. Um you know, the the there were so many narratives that I think are no longer true today. So Yeah, remote, there was no way you could do Um, if you wanted to raise money, like you had to basically kill yourself to do so. Um you know, this is like a twenty four seven hustle. This this is the era of like I think the Ubers and and so on.

Um, whereas nowadays I think like, you know, founder I I don't know if it's because more capital has flown into the, you know, the the ecosystem so that founders have more, you know, leverage, but Um I don't know. I I think the the opposite, you know the the the The more conservative, like compounding side of the business is I think equally valued now, not by investors by any means, but I think by as as a founder, it's an actual legitimate option. Whereas if you were in San Francisco in like 2013, there's no way you're gonna do that. Right. It's like you're gonna look down in every company unless it was raising money, you were kind of always comparing You know, if we raise more or whatever, um

But nowadays like a lot of those companies are way bigger than ours. So I don't know. It's It's uh Wh wh which which are you referring to that's bigger than you? Like a glossier or I don't know who you consider a Actually I I I I love like the Glossy Brain. I think they're like they did a great job, but I I will say like hey

If you were Glossy and you were the founder there, you gave up like more than probably half your company and you had co-founders or whatever. No, I bet you she owns. Less than I bet she owns ten percent. I mean that's a lot though. It's a it's a it's a billion dollar business, maybe. I mean who that's that's true. Maybe. But then I I think on the flip, there's like companies like Milk Makeup, Dessium, you know, I could name so many here that probably have achieved similar run rates, but they kept the entire thing, you know, in house. And when it comes to an exit, you know, you you keep the whole thing and and by the way, like you don't have to kill yourself Dan In to like hire engineers, whatever it is.

Um uh and and they've achieved like and Gymshark's like probably the more more recent example of this, right? So Um I don't know. I And Gymshark the comp you could use as like outer voices, right? Like Which is both both are great brands, but like Yeah, the woman who started out outdoor voices was fired.

Exactly. So Well, I I I think what your parents are doing is uh the m more interesting path, uh which is like You know, the easier it gets to start certain businesses, and I'd say e commerce is getting easier and easier by the day to start, um, the harder and harder it will be to build durable, successful brands. Um, and the more valuable things like, you know, cold chain, you know, cold chain logistics or you know, being a manufacturing plant that's providing that's that's you know, that's building for uh you know, fifty different brands. Uh you know, I feel like that's where the durable value is because it's very hard for little fish like us that's like, Oh, I got an idea to swim upstream and go do what they do, whereas it's very easy for, you know, another person to enter the

Enter the fold and start selling their D to C chocolates and gummies and sh shirts and hats and whatever else. And so I think that like the long term comp you know compounding. Most value is from defensibility and I just think that like having hard to do stuff is much more defensible than the like kind of uh quick, you know, D to C thing. But you know, there's something to you y that doesn't mean you can't make money doing both, but it's like which one ultimately is more valuable. And I I I think, you know, where your parents is at is actually where a lot more value is is to be had. And I wonder what would happen if you took like a technologist or an innovator and you, you know, who was like

Like your parents probably don't think wake up every day trying to like grow and expand and more and more and more. Like they're probably like, you know, like running a good, solid business every single day and like that's their mindset. Like I wonder what would happen if If I took away all your other projects and twenty five year old you took over your family business. Where does that business go in the next ten years? Probably 10X and becomes a billion dollar like, you know, industrial family, you know? P people have done I I have a couple friends who've who come from manufacturing families and they they basically like

put out a consumer brand on top and they're doing like You know, uh one of my friends started um Outer, which is like the the furniture company, and now they're doing like Tens of millions. So so they own their factory? Uh it was a it was a I think um it was a family business for the the manufacturing. Same with Buffy, like the comforter, they bootstrap for a while before you know taking on capital, and that was a family business. Um, there's so many examples like that, but uh these are just the three ideas that I I I wanted to to share and then I'll I'll officially be done. Cool.

One is uh I I think these are like the more controversial ideas, but I I think like you know, nowadays you you as a founder, you can actually have the way to do whatever you want. Um, I think Alcoholics Anonymous online is actually really good. Oh, have you? Okay, perfect. A little bit. No, I mean go for it. But we talked there's I think we talked about this a while ago. No, this is super interesting and there's a company called The Tempest ha that has That was launching around when we start talking about this. So they're actually further along now. I I wonder I I d uh we should do a checkup on them. Basically, digital uh m mobile app or something like that. It doesn't even have to be um specifically like AA. I think there's like a a million like specific, you know, use cases, but I think the um the

Uh the the bigger idea was just like, hey, can you build a specialized community for support groups? Um and it doesn't have to be like An all encompassing generalized like universal here is a support group platform like Reddit, but instead I think you can create like customized um you know, uh productized like versions of each. So you know, in A's case, like you know, you have the steps and you know, there's a number of other ones for like mental health or whatever it is. So that was one. Um the second one uh is just following up on something you guys have talked about a bunch, um, which is uh and this could go either in venture or lifestyle. Um I think um

You know, uh you guys have talked about like uh Andrew Um Uh well can s like what he's done with um the Capital Daily, I think it's awesome. Like I I think everyone respects that. Um I I think the way he he goes about building businesses is it's very, you know, specific and and well known nowadays to to him. But um I do think there's actually a venture approach as well in which Um, you can create more of a democratized system of like, hey, we're gonna find local editors in you know mid market cities.

Um, for example here, like Provo's a pretty big city around here. And there's like so boise, you know, so on and so forth. And uh and I think like a lot of those Uh b basically the idea is like I think you can create a modern day patch um which was acquired, you know, however many years Yeah. Well they're they're patch is still going getting after it. I no, I I I I I think the the idea like patch is um I think the reason patch kinda sucks as a user is like the content is like

not curated whatsoever. There's like a little old looking. Yeah, it's old. It's like there's so many things going on, but if you just have like a um a paid um you know you you monetize through subscription businesses as opposed to advertising. I agree. And like a dollar a week or whatever it was. Um I think there's enough people in those like mid market cities that you can actually build a sizable like you know, multi million dollar run rate per city per your country business and your job as a venture company would be to build the tools to empower and source those editors, kind of like the athletic, actually, as a as a good example. Yeah, and if people are are curious, Patch was started By AOL, I think. It was like Tim Armstrong It was like it was Tim Armstrong. He was a he was an AO Tim Armstrong's help start uh was an early Google guy and then for a minute he was a CEO of AOL.

Patch was his baby. I don't know if he started it or if he bought it. I don't know exact I forget. But it was like a localized news And It's never gone out of business and I think now they're doing tens of millions of revenue, but it was like touted as like the next big thing and it didn't exactly become the next big thing. Yeah.

Um And I I have a bunch more, but my last one I'll just keep kind of short. I I know Actually I'll I'll just kinda like run through them and I won't even like explain. Um I just wanna get these ideas out there. And if anyone's working on these, like please do let me know because I've been thinking about these a lot. Um

Uh one is um Uh so actually uh you actually mentioned the the manufacturing piece of this, but I think Uber um was probably the best like modern example of a managed marketplace in which like when you actually I I think you guys talked about this as well, but like when you use the Uber service, you're not thinking of like, hey, I'm like contracting Uber to find me a driver to use their car. It's like I'm booking an Uber versus Airbnb where it's like I'm booking Airbnb, but it's like a specific stay. So uh I think the concept of managed marketplaces actually hasn't ventured into business uh services as much as it could. Um A couple of companies have done this already. So I think Flexport was a great example of doing this for a modern day like freight brokerage. Um, Zometry was actually the one I was gonna mention that has done this.

um uh for manufacturing. So they've basically aggregated a marketplace of um of preferred manufacturers underneath the hood. So that when you place a uh an order with them or sample or whatever, like they'll go and kind of allocate this um order to the right person at the right time. Um there's also, I mean On the three PL side, like that was I think the past 10 years, but now the past three to four years, there's companies like Airhouse, Flax. Um, you know, Flow space that have built like four PLs or wrap wrappers on top of these. Channel Ape um is another one. Uh, Pilot is one that has done this for bookkeeping, um, Bench has done this for bookkeeping. So I think managed marketplaces is a good idea. Financing for niches is a good idea as well. I think like if you provide financing for products like weddings or um You know, uh or even like home repairs or maintenance. Um I think there's a lot of room there. And you can actually charge a premium.

Um this is a lifestyle business. I think if you built like a a brand called Kids Next Door And you offered things like back to school products, um, lunchbox, composition notebooks, backpacks. I think there's a niche business there. Um Okay, uh I I'm almost done, promise. Um Order via QR codes. Uh this is an air like I lived in China a bunch um over the past like decade and

Um, this is an area where like every time I come back to the States, you kind of wonder, like, where is the American like innovation in this? Why don't we just like Like all the POS systems have the ability to order and transact through um QR and then you can actually run the transaction through Apple Pay, Google Pay, you know whatever it is, then Mow even Cash App. Um But all of them are local like right now that is she like

Right now the innovation on menus and ordering has Uh on quick service restaurants has like Ended at Uh a QR code showing you the menu. Like the

I don't know why anyone like Toast should do this. Like they should just connect the final step, which is like actually let them transact. Um, and this is how like every restaurant in China works, whether it's a high end one or a low end one. Um Last one, uh group buying. Um this is something that does not like it exists in middle market, like um you know, I I think uh you know, the class like Tupperware parties or whatever in like Middle America, but on the reason I think um you know Uh there's this company called Pinuroa in China that I I know a lot of people nowadays know. I don't know. How do you spell that?

Oh. P- I N D U O D U O. It is actually, I think, the craziest venture story you've all hear. Yeah. Sean has brought this up many times. It's insane. It's it's but the the mechanic that people I think oftentimes fixate on when it comes up into a door is like the group buying. I don't actually think that's the reason why it succeeded. They they had group buying like prior to this. Pro like there's two companies that eventually like merged into one. Um it's a really crazy founding story, but like they focus on produce. And I think the um the concept of actually like getting one person in a community to buy bulk produce, um, and then distribute it to like the rest of the moms or or you know, whoever it is, um, that's the primary kind of like Uh cooker, I guess the chef in in the household. Um is I I think actually what led to PDD like doing really well in the beginning. So I think if it's um if you can figure out um So how do the logistics of PDD work? So I or so so definitely it's you buy in bulk and save. So it's like a community can kind of buy vegetables, fresh produce. So is it actually one person receives it that's like a

You know, one of the customers holds it and then distributes it out themselves, or does PD deliver to each house? It's it's changed over the years. You know, nowadays, um uh I think they've built the mechanics so that it's um that's uh uh the payments will actually happen like separately. So they'll uh orchestrate the payments and then they'll also ship separately. So it's just all about like lowering CAC at that point. It's just like, hey, yeah, can I get you to refer someone else at the like now and then, you know, as opposed to waiting later. Um, but there's companies like um And early on earlier on and what they did, like in China, there's companies called uh like Nice Twin, um uh misfresh, et cetera, where it is like one person who buys for a local community and you get like a huge kind of bundle of product and um and you distribute it locally. So it's almost like a the the basket size is enormous um and the the frequency of use is very high.

Um So group buying and then okay. This I know I said last time about this is actually my last moment. Um Uh okay, this this is the probably the craziest one. Um

But it's like if if there's any like hard tech people out there that I think are like into this, um, I actually think this. As um a potentially like really big opportunity. Um This this is the most out there. So

I I was thinking you could build a uh Like we we know right now, like we have crop failures um a lot. And um and and there's also a shortage of uh um uh honey bees. Like honeybees are actually Like Going down in population. You're talking to a beekeeper and saying literally is a he's an actual beekeeper. Oh wow, okay, well

I mean I don't know anything. I just bought it off Amazon. Like I it's not like I like I can't tell you about B stats. All I know is I had some Bs. The uh the I the idea was basically hey, can you build either autonomous crop pollinators? Um, which I think is actually a An increasing challenge right now for Well wouldn't that just be a drone?

It's like a drone bee? Well you you I mean, yeah, you you could you could take it either way, but um uh I think like right now the the issue uh like specifically with companies like Monsanto and whatnot is like you have Um uh kind of like Um uh like

Uh, how do you I even put it like you have spread between um uh like Monsanto based crops as well as like non-Monsanto based crops, and then like that genetic variation can actually cross like It it it like there's no physical barrier to prevent like a crop Crossing over. And they're all there are um the actual like service right now for pollinating cop crops. is a beekeeper like literally going to a farm and like releasing bees and saying like okay and I'm gonna charge you for the day.

Um, and uh I I think this is gonna be continuing like, you know, trend. I I know this is really out there, but I actually think there's a big opportunity for it. It's actually not that out there. I I don't understand the idea. So so what would be the idea here? So you would do hold on, listen, Sean. What you have to do is right now If you're a beekeeper. And these are people who I bought my bees from. They actually You pay money.

And sometimes they'll drive literally cross country. And a farmer will pay a fee. And a beekeeper will bring literally hundreds of hives. I've I own two hives. So someone would bring like hundreds. And they would place them in your field for Maybe four weeks.

And then at the end of the bees pollinating,'cause you need bees in order to grow the plant. So the bee goes from plant to plant to plant, and in doing so drops seeds and stuff like that. Um Yeah. I think it's a very important thing. Drop seeds probably, but okay. I don't know if it's drop seeds, but except something happened. Yeah, like it it helps create more plants, is basically what it does. And a farmer will pay a uh uh for one month of that and then the beekeeper goes back, picks up their bees, brings them home.

grows more, gets more, and then does it again every year crazy? Like you to pollinate commercial like large scale crops. You need trillions of them. Yeah, like like millions of acres. Like this is actually how it's done. I mean it's mind blowing to me, and and the bee population is like dying. Like it's it's dropping year over year. So what what would be the solution? So you're saying a non bee solution for the pollination?

Um well I think there you could do two two ways. Like you could do um you could do it for like via like large scale drone and um uh and I think like I actually I mean you could do it that way, um, in which like you basically blanket a a certain like set area, um, the alternative um is you actually go like actually try to create like micro Yeah. I don't know if it's uh I don't know if you'd talk about it like from the s standpoint of like a robot bee, but um I think there's ways to go about pollinating. Engineer a bee, basically. Uh you could even have a ro like um Uh you can even have like a standardized like robot um uh uh kind of like drive between um uh

I guess the rose of a of a crop and um and uh like spray. I don't know. There's I just think there's an opportunity there. Um I I invested in this company called um uh Pika a couple of years ago that's doing like aut autonomous crop dusting in uh in New Zealand. They never got the license, I don't think, in the US yet, but Um, I think there's a lot more opportunity in like the commercial um farm. Like there's all these like really I know um I think Sam, you're really into trucking, but I think there's all these like opportunities and like farming that is just like as large and it's a really I mean if you think about it, it's like critical to everyone, right? Uh whether it's vegan or I've been saying since the beginning of this podcast. Like Sometimes people dismiss trucking and particularly f farming. My parents are in that industry.

And I'm like If the truckers go away, you're not getting anything. And If the farmers Can't farm. You're not gonna eat anything.

No one no one's hating on truckers and farms. Everyone loves our truckers. We love our farms. That's not what anybody's saying. The only thing anyone's ever said is like, hey, if these trucks can drive themselves, you probably won't have trucking be the number one job in America. You know, so so maybe those truckers will have to shift into doing something else. If the trucks drive themselves because maybe we don't want humans driving eighteen hours a day as like they're you know, the way they run live their life. Quite far. My the only thing I was just gonna make a point here, which is like, hey, those industries are like I I think trucking now is recognized by like the vendor community as like, hey, this is actually a really big opportunity. But I think the commercial farming industry is like Uh it's it's like as large, I think, as this trucking, and they're like really big opportunities that if you have any interest in business applications, wouldn't you rather build like

I mean this this is my whole thing. I I I started I dropped out to start a company in HR SAS and like No kid drops out to go and work on like HR tech, right? Like that's not what you dream of. But if your goal is to make money and that's like what you want to do through software, um or technology, like it's a really great um place to spend time. How are you Well we should wrap up in a second, but how are you spending your time right now?'Cause you have this business italic, which I imagine is that's like your job, you know, that's your nine to five or more than that. But you also have this not pot thing. It sounds like you are you do all types of scheming. How do you Well, for what it's worth, a lot of these ideas are things that like I've just jotted down over the years. So it's not like in preparation for this podcast, I was like, okay, gotta come up with like a hundred ideas there. But just things that I think I'd I'd really love to see in the world or someone to take on. And you know, whether that's in the

The facet of being an investor or or you know advising or whatever it is specifically. I I really don't have much time. So um I just wanted to get these out there and I feel like this is a the perfect place to to do it. Um In terms of day to day, it's like yeah, it's it's Like You know how the startup boundary grind is. It's like Nine to late at night.

Um 99% of it is is italic. Um and uh and it's it's italic is like a really hard business to to start. It is not something that I recommend to anyone. So please don't try to copy. It's it's uh it's not worth it, believe me. Yeah. Uh I mean hopefully it'll be worth it for for for you know Sean and and every one of our investors and so on, but The amount of work that goes. This is why I love pimping out Bitcoin because the more people that copy me, the higher the price goes. Uh that that is the beauty of Bitcoin. And as long as we all keep doing that, we all win. And last question, it I did you used to own fountain dot com? We still do. Yeah. It's uh it was I think it's like

It's like eighty K or something. Italic was more. So how much was italic.com? I think I telek was like a hundred fifteen. Did you use a broker or what'd you do? Yeah, yeah. Use broker. I mean a hundred K how much have you raised? We've raised about

Uh fifteen now. I mean a hundred K for italic.com, if you're trying to build a big brand, I mean, yeah, please. He paid in cash. He just brought the briefcase for that one. I mean 115. I really did. I I tried to get uh um the guy's had it since the nineties. Like you know, I I tried every trick in the book before I went to a broker and just said, like, let's get it. So Yeah, I I use my sister's college email, like, you know, all that stuff. Oh wow, that's smart. Well.

I got LeBron. Thank you, Jeremy. This is awesome. Thanks for coming on, dude. Good seeing you as always. Thank you. Thanks for having me. A lot of fun. All right. And uh we'll share this talk soon.

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