#170 with Jake Paul - Why Jake Paul Thinks He's Worth Billions

part of it's just legacy for me, you know, just Wanting to be this generation's Jay Z or Doctor Dre. I feel like I can rule the world, I know I could be what I want to I put my all in it like a day song on the road, less travel, never looking back. Jake, do you know anything about this podcast? Do you know anything about um the hustle. What what's your contacts here?'Cause we know I mean, I know everything about you.

Yeah, I mean um I I I'm Pretty up to speed. You know, I'm not I'm not a expert on the my first million podcasts, but um But I know I know Sam, I know you from some Gary Vee videos and uh I've I've watched you and Yeah, just uh Jeff has spoken super highly of you and uh Yeah, excited to excited to be on the podcast and and learn what it's all about. Well, yeah, so I can give you the the the which I'll give you the short rundown, but I'll say that whenever we talk about numbers

I feel pretty proud of them and then I talk to you and I'm like Fine. That's not that interesting. So like so anyway, the hustle has got like two million subscribers and uh read by those folks each day to get their business news. And then we have bunch of other businesses uh that are uh subsidiaries. We have this thing called trends where we analyze cool companies. We have this podcast, which um uh Sean started, but we just sold the company for uh a a fair bit of money to HubSpot like uh

Sixty days ago now, thirty days ago, and Sean had a company that he sold to Twitch uh or Amazon. Yeah. Um So that's kind of like our our our experience here, which is actually similar to you, Jeff. I I think that Jeff, you and I and Sean are are a little bit similar, but uh Jake, like when we say our numbers of like

X millions of people doing five million downloads that's cute. I remember I flirted once and got five million downloads. I I I actually don't think that I look at people who have niche followings almost as more powerful because it's What what audience are you influencing over? And you know, are they are they listening to what you're saying? You know, can you move them into different segments. Like there there's people who have maybe ten thousand followers. Like I know this This yoga instructor. She has ten thousand followers, but she has like a course

Where a thousand people or Or two thousand people are paying her to teach them yoga. So Do do you Do for

For some of these YouTube folks, so what what we're gonna talk about today, we'll we'll talk a little bit about you uh boxing. So oddly enough, uh Ben At so we have this thing called trends where we have a team of analysts who break down interesting companies and then we have a community where people discuss it. Ben is a pay member of that group. Um I think Jeff either I think you, I don't know if you're a pay member, but I invited you to it and I commented in the group. I go, hey, I'm interviewing Jake. He just launched this uh this fund uh with Jeff, who's another member. And uh he's they're gonna be investing in X, Y, and Z and w we're gonna interview them in a couple of days, which we ask him.

And Ben was the top comment. He commented right away. What did he say? Ask him why he's such a jackass. Which is like classic classic Ben Askren shit talk. I love it. We can answer that question, but I invited him to make money on both sides, right? He's gonna make a a little bit of money from the fight. And we'll help invest that money and make them even more money, right? Like I think uh Uh I mean Jake has obviously a personal uh tie in here, but I think we're all about business and and making people money here with anti fund. Yeah, and and and it was just funny how like, you know, usually Sean and I are like we like MMA and stuff when we talk about that, and then we have uh tech over here, it's like oh my gosh, this is all once in a while on the pod we'll do like a fighting section at the last five minutes of just shit we're nerding out about. And uh nobody listens to it and like nobody gives a fuck, because our b our audience is all business people. But uh, you know, that's me and Sam's little time that we have at the end.

But um I want to talk about three things. So first Uh the I guess the headline stuff, which is got a big fight coming up. I think it's next week, right? Saturday. Yeah. Six days from now. All right, cool. Um The second so that's on Triller, right? Yeah, Trillerfight Club dot com if anyone wants to order it.

And uh I'm gonna I'm gonna watch it because uh A, I'm a fight fan, but B, this is one where it's actually very interesting because Normally. Like, okay, I'm gonna talk about your brother for a second. So so your brother Logan Paul was scheduled or his schedule to fight Floyd Mayweather, which is like, you know It's called spade to space. Pretty fucking lopsided matchup. You got the greatest boxer ever, probably never been never been beat, never been knocked down. I'm going against somebody who's you know, an a uh

very much an amateur and has made their made their name in and entertainment more so than anything else. But you versus Ben is like actually something I've gotten into many debates about because You've legit been training for years. Ben is kind of like the worst boxer in in MMA. And so you sort of take a guy who's

was a champion level fighter But not a great boxer against a guy who's actually getting pretty fucking good at boxing. And put'em together. And so there's a there's actually Uh it's pretty torn. Dana White, I think, bet a million dollars on Ben Askren. He didn't even like Ben Askren. So so the the MMA guys are really trying to back him up, but I think that's a super interesting fight that's coming up.

Sam, are you into this? Yeah, I one hundred percent. I just uh watched with L Logan's podcast with Ben. You're friends with Ben and you have like your Midwestern like you love midwestern guy, you love Ben. We have Jake here right in your face. Do you have Sam, who who do you who do you favor here? Dude, Sam and I have a prop bat. What is this? You wanna talk about the bad unrapping because next week Sam's not gonna have any hair.

Ah, what it's like. You know about this, oh my gosh. So yes. Um shaving your head if you if you if you're shaving my head. W yeah. Is your hair thinning, Jeff? 'Cause mine is a little bit and I'm I'm like I made this bet and I saw um I started doing research and watching Jake spar and stuff. Got nervous. And I heard I was like, Oh my God, why I wish I would have just spent money. You you made your assumption before watching any footage or looking into it? Emotional Ben Yeah, I I I did it purely on emotion because we had Ben on prior and I like Ben. I mean I I I don't know you yet, but I imagine I'll like you too, but I knew him first.

See Jake, here's the thing. Yeah, so just to summarize for the audience here, we have it on record, so no one punk out here. Sam and I were chatting on Facebook Messenger. And we were just talking some shit. And uh basically I'm like, hey, let's put something online, right? I think money is one thing, but I think Just something fun, something of a prophet. And I think we came up with uh Right now.

Turn into just like Whoever loses, I got my boy Jake, you got your boy uh Sam got his boy Ben Whover loses is gonna go uh Shave all their hair. Oh like a hard core. With a big razor. Like it made it. A bick.

It's call we used to call it bicking it. You gotta bick it. It's like a straight scale. Yeah, right? Like Like skinhead. Yes. Um Yeah, so anyway, we're gonna see what's what what will happen with that. But either way, I'm gonna win because it's exciting.

So we're all gonna win, I think. So that's good. Um I'm gonna keep my beautiful hair and um it's gonna be funny to see as a skinhead, Sam. Well, it's unfortunately I already look like one. Um so the odds aren't in my favorite. The second thing is you guys launched this fund called the anti fund. It's a rolling fund, right, Jeff? Correct. It's on Angelus Rolling Fund. Angel is Rolling Fund. Uh we've talked about rolling funds before. So so Jake, actually to your point of like the power of a niche loyal following So I've been doing this podcast for I think I did it for like a year. And then I was like, you know what, I'm gonna launch a a rolling fun. And I said, here's what I'm gonna do.

I'm not gonna go to anyone I know in real life. I didn't go to Sam, I didn't go to Jeff, I didn't go to any of my friends who kind of were like I think I think if I went to friends in Silicon Valley and say, Hey, I'm starting a fund, they would have cut me a check. It would have been Great, but not not a remarkable story. Instead I said I'm gonna only raise this from people I've never met. Who just follow me on either Twitter or the from the podcast.

And I tweeted out, I said, I'm gonna try to raise a million dollars in twenty one days. And we're like I think we we crushed it in like three days and we are now at four million a year on the rolling fund. from people I'd never met and I never did a phone call. So I never did a pitch meeting. Or anything like that. And that was the power of kind of like a niche following or or a trusted audience that really w isn't that big.

But The power of the trust and the and the quality of the audience. made it so that I could raise one of the bigger rolling funds. That's huge. Yeah, that's a that's a remarkable story. And that was that was sort of, you know, why we chose to go through the Angeles rolling fund platform is because we wanted to be able to sort of crowdsource from our our, you know, fans and people who support me and be able to market it out there so that everyone can get involved because when we when we're coming into These startups

our sort of differentiating factor is like the traction and marketing and uh that we can bring to them. And if we have an army of investors who want to see these products succeed, then you know the uh we're all gonna be pushing it and it and it's sort of creates this uh This movement. How much have you guys raised so far, can you say or no?

We're not gonna say, but I think in terms of just like anchor L Ps, we have Mark Andreessen, Chris Dixon Uh a a bunch of friends and and and it's also very interesting to see and talk to a lot of institutional investors. But do they go through the rolling front platform? Because then you're gonna have to give Angelus their cut. No. I I mean I think we're we're h I think Angelus has been good partners, honestly, right? Like I think the back office and and and and smoothness on that platform we're very happy to share. I mean I think

I I think Jake and I I think resonate because we're long term players here. And I think it it's a very interesting evolution of the venture capital ecosystem. Right, like Yeah, I'm I'm I mean I know, Sam, you're starting to invest. I mean, Sean, you have a great portfolio. I mean, I'm sure we should we should talk about this, but

It is very interesting to see how Wall Street hedge crossover hedge ones are coming downstream. uh top tier venture capital firms are going upstream into public market entities. I think the growth equity people in the middle are getting crushed. I think you see solo capitalists. raising hundreds of millions of dollars in SPVs. I mean, I think the ecosystem's really, really changing.

And I in our thesis is that We're all entrepreneurs here, right? Like just look at the people on your cap table. Who are actually people who add value And these old school funds who are middling I

I think people like us should eat their lunch. What but it's not to say that like we can't be complimentary. But I think just I think as a founder I'm looking at the cap table that in in my business is And it's very easy to see, like in terms of Dollar dilution to value add.

Like the best people on my cap table. Are entrepreneurs and operators. And I think Jake and I wanted to be those people on our portfolio company. And I think Well, how much is the fund do you want to be how much is the fund going to be, you think? So I think you you guys said you wanted to be number one. Um, I don't know who the biggest is. Sean, you're at like what five million? Four but that's not the biggest. Sawhill I think has the biggest rolling fund right now, fift maybe ten, fifteen million, something like that. I think Pomp has a big one too.

But the big guy in the fifteen range. Uh having a bill. It does matter. That's what they said they wanted to do. In the press release, they go, we want to be number one. If that's your goal, you should want the best returns, not the largest size fund. Uh So so bad goal, but if if that is your goal. Is that your goal, Jeff, to have the largest Capital base, that's not gonna do anything for you. Yeah, yeah. No, I I think that's just like us in a competitive spirit. Right. But I think the core metric for us is best cash on cash returns, right? End of the day.

It's IR and we're turning capital to our L P so Jake. Were you Angel investing before this, or is this kinda your first for it for you uh personally into startup uh investments yeah I I've been angel investing um since I was like eighteen. I'm I'm twenty four now and then I also had a a fund when I was eighteen um called TG Z Capital. Um, and we we raise a pretty decent amount of money, but was just getting my feet wet into the into the tech business, but invested into over uh twenty consumer startups and the fund

Is is Performing well, we're seeing exits, um, and Uh we basically tripled our our IR so Um pretty successful there as my first one, but now

Mm-hmm. Sorry, it's a little lag, but uh what are some companies you invested in that we might have heard of? So Quip, I think is one of the biggest ones that's like performing um uh no foods triller uh w which um Quit quit the toothbrush thing. Yeah, hush hush beauty.

Um Just just a lot a lot of cons a lot of consumer brands and uh You know, it's it that was again Just me getting started and I was eighteen, nineteen, twenty years old at the time. And and now it's like my reach is bigger than ever, my uh my knowledge is is more than ever. And I I have uh Jeff Who has such a great reputation and is an amazing founder and entrepreneur. So uh just really excited to

To Yeah. Go head heads down. How did you guys meet? Is there a good story? Jeff is kind of like, you know, uh Asian guy from the tech scene, successful, you know, tech entrepreneur. Jake, you're like, I don't know. YouTube Playboy

How w how did y'all even cross paths? Is there a good story there or is this just whatever? I mean I think like I was talking to Chris and Elena and then Jake came in and like We just shook hands and I was like, Oh, like I saw this I I've seen this kid on YouTube, he was trolling the

Fuck out of Connor McGregor. That was hilarious. This guy's h this guy's awesome. Um I mean, so I I don't know if this is public or not, but but fuck it. Like Connor's a big customer of HVM and obviously he's had uh you know kind of on on record. Um

Had some issues with endurance. So we just knew that through HVMN we have some exogenous ketone technology that's been supporting. Uh folks in special operations elite athletics. And uh Connor was a was a customer and I was like, Hey, like Jake is cool. Like I saw him like tryna wanna pick a fight with some of the top elite boxers. Uh, let's just talk about human performance and we just hit it off from there, and we realize that

Human performance was really just the start of what an overlapping interest was. And uh maybe Jake, you wanna tell about like your three goals this year. Like you had a couple of goals that you wanted to accomplish this year and they just really overlap in terms of it. I I told Jeff I was like I have three goals this year. One is to fight Three times. The second is to uh start a V C fund and the third was to learn to do the splits. S

Oh, same. Yeah. Like this. Front split, baby. What do you use it for? Uh just a lot of stretching, just literally sitting in that position and trying to get lower and lower each time. It's not really rocket science. Dude, I just signed up for a s a front splits course. I said Jeff shirtless pictures all the time of me doing a back bridge.

Same. Same. We could just talk about flexibility if you want all that. Flexibility equals speed. So that's that's that's uh that's why I'm that's one of my goals. Um But yeah, that's that's sort of how we connected. And Jeff was like, Oh, I wanna do I wanna do a fund as well. Like I've been wanting to do, I've been wanting to do it, and we just had mutual friends and uh just sort of hit it off right away with our our goals and our network and our vision for what we could accomplish. Uh I wanna ask you guys an about some specific companies you're looking at and and we could bring up some as well. But I wanted to ask you, um So I've been doing angel investing a little bit now, so

I made a great living starting and selling a company. And I'm gonna continue doing that. The thing about angel investing that is like, I'm like, do I want to spend a lot of time doing this? Is that you're not gonna see any returns if ever. for like six, seven, eight years. And I'm talking to Sean all the time. I'm like, Sean, like you think this is a good use of time? Like this is kinda crazy. I don't know if it's Do you guys think you uh Jake, Jeff, do you guys think that

Is this gonna be a needle mover for you guys financially? Or are you doing it because Um, it's cool. It's exciting. I mean, what what's your motivation here? And don't say like we want to help founders'cause I I can't stand that. that answer'cause I think that's mostly bullshit. You're not doing it if you're not gonna get something. For me, it's having the finger on the pulse of what's going on. I think

That's sort of what I've been best at over over the years is being ahead of trends. and knowing what's going on in in the business world and w what things are hot and new. Um I can I can leverage that a lot for uh you know, a lot a lot of different reasons, both financially, both in my career and I can

Uh You know? have m form my opinion on what I think I should be putting money into. And then I think part of it's just legacy. For me, you know, just wanting to be this generation's Jay-Z or Dr. Dre where

You know, they're A part of these massive billion dollar companies and do more for the celebrities around them than just be a rapper or just be a producer. You know, I want To be that bridge.

Between the business world and the influencer world and be sort of the one that who the the the influence or celebrity who's known for that in this generation. Um and I feel like As a twenty four year old, I'm sort of already starting to to lead that and uh and accomplish that. Jake, something something let me a ask a quick sh question. So sh something that I've always been curious about, and we've actually talked about hiring CEOs on here, but

Um, which is a l a little bit similar, but The Jay Z thing interests me because he's got his hands in everything. Um so he uh Just sold. a a significant part of title, I think or maybe the whole thing. He had the alcohol thing. And then he's had like th like he's had hits like it seems like one hit every year. Clothing

Right. His record label. What I'm always curious about, and and I actually just talked to a guy the other day who Jay Jay Z invested in his company and I talked to the guy and I was like, What's it like talking to him? And what I'm curious about is guys like Jay Z and and your If you're not there already, you're on your way there, but you probably are. What I'm always curious about is how do they structure the the office? So how are they actually structuring the day to day?

So like There's this this the face. So Jay Z's the face and he's got to do good at music, otherwise everything else fails. But he's got his hands and all this stuff. How are you actually structuring your day or structuring like the Jake Paul corporation in order to effectively do that? Yeah, I mean, um for for me it's about it's building out team. And you know, for me, it's a little bit different right now with being in training camp where like I'm traveling all over and training twice a day and so on and so forth, but Um My team comes comes with me and we're sitting like

There was a couple more people here literally right now, but we're sitting around this table you know throughout the day uh going through operations, checklists, to do's um You know hitting deadlines, um

And so for me, I'm I'm very much uh a part of the operations and um and running things as as a CEO. But is the are they structured as what's your do you have like a holding like a like a like a Jake Paul Media L C or something like that? Yeah, well it's like it's sort of like a parent company and then there's like You know, the branches underneath it. And but then most and most all the revenue is

some YouTube, I imagine, related or some type of brand revenue, advertising revenue. And then Uh you just have like maybe eight or five, I don't know how many people you said. And they just get uh uh a bi weekly bi monthly salary off that. So I mean it's just run like a pretty straight laced normal media company. Is that how how you have it set up? It's it's pretty much like a media company. Got it. Yeah, I've always been curious about how those guys do that. Go ahead. Jake, you you said something a second ago. You were like, you know, I've I've been good at having my finger on the pulse.

Of where's culture going, where's attention going. Where's business going? And uh so I'm curious, what what are the trends that you're seeing right now? What are you excited about? Um, you can either name kinda like Categories or even better would be, you know, specific ideas that you're interested in or or concepts or b businesses that you're interested in. Where where do you where do you see opportunities that

Навіть с об'єс тоді. But you kinda see it a little bit ahead of of the curve. Well I I I think uh the hot one right now that sort of has evolved in the past two months is every celebrity trying to get involved in in NFTs. um and digital assets. or digital goods.

Um, I think a lot of people are doing it wrong though, and they're sort of just doing it as like a flash in the plan in a pan and don't necessarily see the vision of where NFTs and why digital assets are so important and and and where it can go. And then on top of that, things like the metaverse where we have you know, these digital m museums and digital real estate. Uh that's that's something that I I think is is super powerful right now. And Um

And then Everyone sort of in the past week was talking about bit cloud, you know, and and how big that's become and I think Both of those things are sort of digital Uh Digital

you know, businesses that are backed by influencers and celebrities or or sort of built on the backbone of digital celebrities and artists. Um And they're they're both super interesting. I think BitCloud You know, we will hear about for five, ten, fifteen years to come.

And it it's it's just such an interesting concept, and decentralizing social media is such a powerful Power thing. Um so the Those are two right just like right off the bat that um that Are very interesting to me right now.

Are you um All right, let me show you guys a company. Let's talk about specific companies in that space. I'll tell you one that I'm looking at and you tell me your opinion. So uh Sean brought this to my attention. I got a meeting with them actually in like seven hours because they're based in Australia. So it's like Monday morning their time when when they're meeting. But uh I just posted you guys the link. I don't know why the links always show up like Z you heard of it? Yeah, Z run. Z-E-D dot run. Have you guys heard of this? Uh yeah, these horse NFTs. It's crazy, dude. I've had friends that have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars.

On buying these horses. It's so fascinating. Now, I think so I I'm gonna try invest in them, but I think that there's a ton of reasons why this can't work, but I there maybe is a world where they become this like massive like you know uh Uh huh. Well I forget what the big fantasy sports fantasy draft or whatever it's called. Uh, there is a world where Yeah, DraftKings. There is a world where it becomes have you guys seen this? Can I tell you a little bit about this one? So for those who don't know, so Z Run is basically

uh a platform where you go on and you buy um like a digital horse. So you buy a horse and the horse can be one of these like four different kind of like breeds. There's one breed that's known for like speed. There's another breed that's kind of like known for let's say like it's uh endurance. Uh and so you know they each like the four different kind of like classes, like almost like Gryffindor and Slytherin or whatever else, right? So four different the master breeds. So you go on, you buy a horse. And then you can race your horse. Now it's so it combines

The fun of digital horse uh of like horse racing and betting on horses, which I've done it. Sam, I know. You're from Redneck country. You've definitely gone to horse horse tracks and and bet on horses, so So Betting on horses is super fun, but now you actually own the horse like in a normal horse race. The race happens and like five seconds later, you don't give a shit about you know horse number eight.

you know, happy go lucky. It's it's like I don't care about h happy go lucky anymore, but in this case, it's your horse. And the better your horse does, the more Other people want to breed with your horse. So these are The underlying technology is NFTs, but if you just take that away, it's a game. Basically.

But it's emerges like the best of like a Tamagotchi where you own your little pet. As well as horse racing where you actually Race your pet. And uh and you can win monebling on the horse races. And so and so I know people that have made like three grand this week just because their horse was winning, I was doing pretty well, and people

started paying him to breed with that horse because he had a twenty five percent win rate. But how do you make your horse better or worse? It's it's just like a game of sort of random chance, right? So you you sort of buy the horses at the auction. And the horse has some probability of being like one of the like top horses. And then even then, like anything can happen in a race. So the race itself has some probability. So it's just a bunch of math equations. That's deciding.

Whether this horse is gonna win that race or not, or be one of the like perfect. It's it's random in the same way that like you open a back of a pack of Panini basketball cards and you might get a Luca Dontius rookie card. Or you open Pokemon and you might get a holographic Charizard or not. So there's just a a set of probabilities where you get the common stock that are like Not that great.

Or you get the premium rare ones and when you have that It's this asset that just drives a bunch of cash flow because it'll win races, which wins you money. Yeah. People will breed with it and it'll win you money. And so it's this mix. And the people who will go heavy on it, there's this crew of guys, I've talked to them.

That are like The same guys that are the whales on the all the daily fantasy sites, these guys bet, you know, millions of dollars. I was talking to a guy uh yesterday. Sky basically himself bets about three million dollars a month. on uh on DraftKings and FanDuel.

And so the that same crew that became the cream of the crop, they moved to Top Shot. And they basically bought all the top shot stuff, like all the top shot cards. When it was really cheap. And then they started they started trading with each I can't say his name, but they started trading with each other. And they started buying each other's things up. And so all of a sudden the prices went up. And it's kind of like a little bit fugazi because these guys like.

They're all buying from each other, so it's sort of like a wash trade. It's like I'll pay you five million dollars and you pay me four million dollars back, and then I pay you three million dollars and It makes all the price of it makes the price of all of our assets that we bought dirt cheap. go up to the mass public. Now the the public just sees it and we talked about it on the pod, like Oh my god. 160 million dollars has been traded on Top Shot. Oh my god, that one Top Shot is worth four million dollars or whatever.

And it's because these guys basically pumped the market themselves. And like this month, this month this month top shots like crashed. It's like down seventy percent. And all these guys have moved to Zed Run. And so like the place to be right now is Zed because that's where you go buy some horses and the whales are all there betting against each other and driving up the prices. So Jake and Jeff, would would you write these guys a check based off of the Three minutes of information you know about them. I think Jake and I like

invest in the picks and shovels of this space, right? So I think I I think Sean, I think you're you're very astute. I think there's a lot of inside dealing. And it's a very similar dynamic with the fine arts market. Or the the like the nightclub.

social clout like hey I'm gonna drop X hundred thousand dollars. popping bottles and and and doing the model nightlife lifestyle. I think We believe that the market for this exists.

And I think that for Gen Z and Ford. It's just as cool to have digital stunts. versus real life stunts. So I think enabling this economy, I think it's a real market. Just like

Warhols. uh are a real market I think people's are like a real mark in the sense that There is some liquidity in this space. But I think it's very hard to choose which specific art or artist.

Is to be made, and I think. Where I think we have some alpha is There is going to be a similar infrastructure around the Christie's the Sotheby's. The gallery owners, the taste makers, the curators. There is a multi billion dollar industry that chooses winners, right? Like

Who who who says that a Rothschild Forty thousand dollar wine is worth forty thousand dollars, right? There's a an ecosystem that chooses that wine or that chooses that artist to be the next winner. So the well the question then is is Jake and Jeff, do you think that Zed are you willing to bet, are you would you bet that this is gonna be the next Kentucky Derby? Or

I think I I think a lot of these games are hits driven businesses, right? I think it's like uh Just like how there are a bunch of mobile games that were super hot that like spiked and then crashed. I think these are like movie franchises, right? Like which ones are durable and which ones are flash in the pan, right? And I think there's a lot of self dealing with folks that come in early. And exactly as you mentioned, like I think we've seen and looked a lot of these deals, right? Like the Beeple art piece that's sold for sixty nine million, uh Uh Christie's

The buyer uh people have two percent of that uh a stake, right? Like they were pumping up the people's art value, right? Like that is like well known within like the Hardcore NFT R collection. Like it was a self The adult trade.

Like he is pumping his own art pieces, right? It's almost like a Like because they're not securities, it's probably not inside our trade and not illegal. So they're all like Jake just had a grin. He's Jake's got something to say. No, I just say I w I wouldn't He swept at something. Invest or not invest into a company based off of a three minute spiel from not the founders. Yeah. That's good. That that was a trick question. Good to answer. There was a great tweet I saw yesterday um by somebody I think their name

I don't know how to say it, for dose buy or something like that. But they said Here's the scenario. I have two million dollars of ether. I create an NFT art piece. I've I pay an artist five five grand. Uh, hey, make me some NFT art. Cool.

Now I use my two million dollars of ether to buy my own NFT. Now I still have two million in Ether'cause I bought my own N F T. The money went to me. Um And I have an art piece that's valued at two million dollars. So now I put that NFT back up on the market.

And let's say it sells for at a ninety percent discount. It sells for two hundred K. Right. Uh oh my God, I took a I took a big bath on this. Whoever bought it got a great deal. They bought a two million dollar Ether think this thing just sold for two million, they got it for two hundred K. Great, I now have 2.2 million in Ether, right? And it's like that is how simple the sort of self dealing can be. In this space right now because it's the wild worldwide. That's

I gotta tell you. The same sort of shenanigans were taking place with Bitcoin really early on. And sometimes there is a Fake it till you make it, nature to these things. Right now it's happening on BitCloud. So I was I I came on here, we're talking about BitCloud a few weeks ago.

And everyone's making fun of me because they're like, Oh Are you pumping this like You know, is this a Ponzi scheme like oh you know you know it's like that scene from the office where Michael's all excited. And then Jim goes and draws a pyramid around the thing he's he's he's you know drawing out and it's like yeah that's a pyramid scheme. Um, but I you know, I sort of saw something different in BitCloud. I think actually BitCloud has a lot of potential.

I pumped in a hundred K because I know that for all these platforms They don't have to work in the long run. For them to be successful. They can be successful in two other ways. They can just show the world that hey

There this is not maybe the end the winner, but this is a good idea. And um and then V somebody will come up with a V two later and it'll be better. The second thing is if you get in early and there's a speculative run where people get excited and more more people get in involved. It doesn't have to like replace Facebook and replace Twitter for you to make a bunch of money, and so Um, that was my view on BitCloud. Jake, I'm heavying your coin right now on Bitcoin. I'm just waiting for you to claim that, baby, because uh you're one of my main horse. I'm claiming in the in the next couple of days here. Um

But but it's it's so interesting and and again it goes back to like Being able to get The general public involved for me when I saw When when I'm looking at crypto, like I understand it more than the average person. I'm not an expert by any means, but I've been a p following it for years and investing money into it.

Um but It's it's still a bit confusing. And I don't know all the different coins and I have to like look and research their functions and all this stuff and figure out who's involved and if they're legit, if I wanna put my money in. W when BitCloud came out, I was like Oh my God, this is perfect for me because I know who these influencers are, I know who these celebrities are, I know who their managers are, I know if they're actually smart, I know if they work hard, I know if their career will have longevity. And I think

Also for for For fans. You know, they can Be like, oh my God. You know, I love this kid on TikTok. I think he's gonna be the next big thing, but his BitCloud's only five hundred dollars. I can put in five hundred and then

who knows if if they actually blow up. And so I think for for the general public, BitCloud is so much easier to understand. It's easier like entry point and it's it's just the start. Um and that that's part of the reason why I'm I'm bullish on it as well and think that it has a ton of potential and that it'll it'll be around for a while and you sort of have з директ аксе your your most loyal supporters and the people who

believe that you will be successful in the long run, you're able to connect with them, message them. Um and see who's who's backing you. So I'll can I just say one thing on that? So Um I go I jo I joined the thing like three weeks ago and you know was excited initially and put a bunch of money in and I've made a bunch of money on it, but

Now I'm W I guess my thought something has clicked in my head where I now get Well. I can now better articulate why I think this some this idea Whether whether it's in BitCloud or or some other

project that comes up two years from now, this idea's never gonna go away. And I'll I'll explain why. Because a lot of people said, Okay, what's the point? Why would I buy this coin? Why would I buy Jake Paul's coin I want to buy Jeff's coin. What's the what's the purpose of it? And here's how I would explain it now. Uh everybody sort of gets and actually kinda likes things like Patreon. Where it's like well, I like to support

a creator I like. Right. So I want to give them money so they can keep Creating content. Uh and Patreon has this like feel good vibe to it where I'm just, you know, sort of donating and I get back, I get some kind of access, right? So When I go when I pay on OnlyFans or Patreon or Substack, I pay for access. I pay for stuff. And um so I give you money and you give me content.

And what BitCloud does is it takes that same trade, but it makes it even better for the person giving the money because it says. Hey, this time when you pay when you buy my coin, yes, you get access, you get content, you get exclusives, you get more from me, and you're helping me do what I do because now I can make a living doing this. But If you were early, if you think that more people in the future will want that same access you're gonna not just like pay for stuff and you know it's money going out.

You're actually gonna make money because your the coins gonna appreciate in value. And so you as a early taste maker. get to j like if I knew Jake Paul was gonna be Jake Paul actually Jake I saw you We were at a party uh together. You were coming you were leaving, I was coming at a house party like five years ago. uh four or five years ago, and I I remember you were walking around with a backpack on. I just remember thinking, why's this guy got a backpack? And they're like, Oh, that's Jake Paul. I thought, Oh yeah, I've seen some of this guy's stuff on Vine. I think this guy's great.

If I could have bought your coin then by being a early Identifying earlier on that hey, this guy's gonna be big. Not only would I've got the access, pay for content. But I would have made five X, ten X my money by believing in you early. So it takes the concept. Of a thousand true fans, which was like a

Like a twenty year old concept that a lot of people talk about. Hey, if you can get a thousand people to pay you ten bucks a month, you can make a living. As an artist. A thousand true fans is gone. Now it's a hundred true believers. A hundred people who actually invest in your coin, not only are they enough for you to make your living, but they will get rich by being early in you too. And so I think that's the one thing that will stick around. I don't know if big I don't know who's behind Big Cloud. I don't know if it's a scam. I don't know if they'll run away with our money. I don't know if it'll get hacked.

Nobody can guarantee those things. But I can guarantee you this idea that the The curators, the tastemakers, the people who identify talent early as a fan. And they are gonna get it's like buying Amazon stock early now. They're gonna they're gonna make financial rewards in addition to being an early supporter. That idea is never going away, and that's what BitCloud brought to the world. Yeah, I hear this this like legit, I don't know if it's like an open secret now, but like there's legit people behind and like legit operators behind. Um

Shamath and uh and Dreasen. Well they backed it. It's public. Yeah. Yeah, they backed it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like the operator, the founder is like a legit guy who's raised like hundreds of million, like a hundred fifty million dollars of res of previous cryptic. So I think like the team is like gonna be reasonable. It's underwritten by like reasonable people. Yeah. I mean I think the long term scheme is that like

For Twitter, Instagram, right? Like Jake a offered so much friggin' value to those platforms. But he has to monetize off platform. Jake, how how much money How much value do you think you created just give me a A a wild ass guess. A wag. Wild ass guess. How much value did you create for Vine, for Twitter, for YouTube? What would you put if you were throwing a number out there, how much value was the Paul, were the Paul brothers for for those platforms?

Oh easy. over like billions. Billions of dollars. And and In media value. Yeah, market cap for sure.

Hands down. Uh every day of me's take the conservative angle. Let's Let's take it most conservatively. Let's say you only added A hundred million dollars over the last 10 years. I think that's an extremely conservative estimate, right? Uh or or or we can go we can just say a hundred million. Um

Roughly right now, what do you think what percentage of the value that's created do YouTubers capture? Do they capture like one percent of the value they're creating, 10%, like Well how how one sided is the deal in your opinion? Um I it's it's very one sided and and I think that's why you see, you know, YouTube and creators Mm.

Not as You know, in In sync as as before. Because They're finding ways to go off platform and make money, like OnlyFans, BitCloud, their own subscription platforms. Um, so

It it it's not the same ecosystem that it was before, but even before it was still very, very lopsided. Um, and you know, we're bringing all of this attention to YouTube and we're bringing those eyeballs without that content there from the influencers. You know, the the fans aren't necessarily gonna come back all the time, I think and I think that's Yeah. uh value you can't even really put a put a price tag on.

Yeah, I mean just look at it from like a Netflix model, right? Netflix spends billions of dollars, Disney Plus spends billions of dollars on content. And then you two basically Take gets it for free and then kicks at ad revenue shit split. to to the creators. So what like I I just don't think it's a stable equilibrium. Just from a like a like

Economics one oh one. Like that will have to change in the medium long term. And I think that's part of our thesis as anti- So what do you call what do you call this genre of companies? Companies that basically help people like Jake or or us make more money versus just making uh uh you know a tiny bit of money from ad revenue. Wha what do you what do you call this like? Nish. niche. Yeah, I I think I think people are deeming it creator economy, passion economy. I mean it's just like

I think there's a new way I I think Like What is the ultimate commodity? It's time. What is a Best proxy for time, it's money.

What's the second best approxim for Time. Attention. Right, like It's thinking it's like literally time is what everyone has limited resource of.

Money buys you a lot of time because you can t pay people to do stuff for you. Then attention, right? Like attention is very, very scarce. And I think what creators and influences offer is a lot of attention. So let's let's let's actually talk about some of those companies that you guys are looking at. I know I mean I know past ones, Jake said that he helped build or was uh very tightly associated with FanJoy, which Um I if I had a guess, I I I just just from what I read online, I would imagine that they're doing north of a hundred million dollars a year in

Well, they're for sure doing north of a hundred million in gross merchandise revenue um gross merchandise sales. Are they doing more than a hundred million in like net revenue? Um, I'm not sure actually. If I would bet I would say fifty or six. Explain what it is for people who don't know. What's what's fancy? Jake FanJoy in the easiest way. Uh co-founder on on the books of FanJoy, uh, but also um investor in like just

been very involved in in strategy from from day one with uh the CEO Chris Um But essentially Fanjoy is the best. place for influencers, slash celebrities, slash athletes.

To go for their merchandising creation, shipping, fulfillment, and fan experience. So You know, let's say there's Uh big influencer. And they need merchandising. FanDroid is the best place to go.

They take care of design, fulfillment, shipping, customer service, the the website, um And It's it's basically A to Z one stop shop. What do you it's some what's gonna be the the how does the how does how does fan joy and someone uh like uh one of the massive t shirt companies or something like that buys them for hundreds of millions of dollars. Yeah, and and I think just continuing to to scale and scale and bring more influencers and and

you know, doing doing unique things like dis disrupting retail in many ways because Um You know, when when some of these influencers we've seen them go into retail in different places like Zoomies or Or target even Yeah they're they're

going crazy because their fans can actually go to the store and and buy physical products. So I think there's uh You know, there's a lot of uh there's a lot of value in that. And then just getting super smart. Around the the the actual product and c and the customer acquisition and Um

There's always gonna be An influencer a celebrity or an athlete that's super popular at the time. And so The business.

obviously continues to grow and grow and grow. What other products um are you seeing in the space that are interesting that most of our listeners won't even know. Or saying. I mean Um

Big cloud, we've talked about, but that's something that a lot of people don't know. Yeah. Monetize better than just a pl plain advertising. I mean, maybe just a like I we don't wanna like scoop some announce uh some investments, but we've already started making some investments and I think

We've looked at uh novel ways to do uh commerce, right? Like I think SMS conversational commerce is very, very interesting. Um You know, Sam, you you've been awesome to kick over some interesting deals and Yeah, we could tell I could tell you. So uh we I I sent Jake and uh Jeff this company called Tails, and what it does is um The the reason it interests me is there's already companies in China doing this that have like fifty, seventy, eighty billion dollars in market cap. And Tails is a platform where an author can upload the pat the text.

of their uh past books and through a bunch of different technology, it turns into an interactive book, which you can sell for more money and make the author more money. And that's kind of interesting. I think that there's a ton of reasons why that business can fail, but there's a few reasons why it could be quite massive. And so I I invested in in in it for The few reasons I think it could be big. I think I send that sent that to you, Sean. Yeah. Yeah, I saw that one too. So Jake, let me ask you differ let me ask the question a different way. Um The people who listen to this podcast are like makers of some kind, they're product or engineers. Uh everybody from

We have like execs at Twitch or YouTube or Facebook that listen to this podcast, Twitter. Uh, and then there's like, you know, the eighteen year old college kid who listens to this because he loves getting ideas about like different things that they could go build. And so a lot of them The one of the biggest DMs I get is just like, Hey

Like Do you have an idea or what do you think of this idea? I can make anything. I just don't know where I don't know what the problems are that people have. Uh because imagine you're you're you're a twenty-year-old kid. It's the the Apps that those people build are typically the pro the apps that solve problems of twenty year old Kids, but they're not because they don't know what problems a Jake Paul has.

And same thing with execs that these companies they don't always understand what are the problems that an influencer like you would have. So What are some pain points or like if you could say kind of like, Man, I wish somebody would make it easier for me to do X, or Man, it really sucks that You know, I I'll just throw out some examples while you think'cause I know that's a tough question, but like you know, I'm gonna buy a house and like it sucks you can't get a mortgage, even though I got millions of dollars of no W two income.

Okay, go Yeah, so I I think in this space There are very few people who are great at Just social media in general, from understanding it, knowing what's going on, knowing the players involved. Being able to create content in the space. Um

edit videos, graphic design, um You know. understanding Twitter, being able to run a Twitter account. Every ev everyone I meet ever Is like I need a social media person.

I need someone who can Edit Film. Uh Understand post, do the captions, tweet, make the tick tocks, come up with the videos. I need idea like every single company, every single influencer needs that.

Person. And there's where are they? I don't know. Uh uh. I've had to it it's it took me long

long, long time. My my my uh John right here, he's my guy. He's like I'm right here, but um But it it's so hard to find them. It's so hard to find them. And so I wish there was a place where I could just go and be like Who's the best social media people, I think Okay. That would blow up instantly.

We just went through this. Yeah, we we just So J So what's that look like? We just had a fun fun version of this where like you s like so my studio looks You can say it, Jake. I look pretty legit right now, right? Got good lighting, got good audio, got it, got it, got a good camera. I didn't know how the fuck to do that. And so these guys basically flew out to my house and built me the studio in my garage. And they did the same thing for Sam. And then they said, Great, we're gonna take your podcast and the videos from this and we're gonna chop it up and make awesome social clips. And just have them ready for you on a platter to post and then some guys are posting them for us.

So now we have this machine behind us that's taking the raw content and turning it into something awesome. It took us a year to find that and we were just lucky that we found it. So let's just riff on that idea for a second. It seems like there's

A way to like a job like a like basically like a place to go higher, like you know, LinkedIn is too broad. You know, upwork is just too random. A place to go, a marketplace where you could find trusted content creator like allies, digital like kind of like Editors

Um, social media people, graphic designers, stuff like that. So like a place to go find high quality people like that. Like a marketplace. Jake, do you know Angie's list? Yeah. We need Jake's exact but The the thing is though is like

A good creative artist Editor slash videographer isn't gonna go and fucking make a LinkedIn profile. Like, how do you get these people who are actually good?

And like super talented To maybe be on one of these Uh one of these

These sites. I don't I don't know. And young people Oh. So so one company is called Dribble where drip like great designers didn't want to go to LinkedIn and just say I'm a great designer and even if you went to LinkedIn, you couldn't tell if they're a great designer or not. What Dribble did was it let them upload little shots. So it's like while they're in Photoshop, if they're doing something cool. They kind of take a screenshot, upload it to dribble, and other designers see it. So we kinda became this social network for designers to share their

The coolest stuff they were making. It's like our portfolio. And then but once they got everybody building their portfolio on here and sharing it with each other, then it became the best way to hire designers because now you could go just go browse their portfolios and they got higher paying jobs. So that's one angle of attack. The other is Lambda School. So I invest in this company called Lambda School. That basically was training people to become software engineers, like Every tech company needs to hire engineers, you know, like

Every influencer needs a social person who's making, you know, editing and posting stuff. Every tech company needs more engineers. And so Lambda School was like, Yo, college is not doing it. We need to make a nine month boot camp where we'll make you like from zero to ready to be hired. And we only make money if you get hired. So like we're fully aligned with you. If we can't get you a high paying job as an engineer, then we failed. We don't make any money. It's on us.

And Lambda School is gonna be like a billion dollar plus company now. You could make potentially a lambda school. For Whatever content creation or media creation. Yeah, I mean, let's just put it out there. Like I'm sure all of us would invest in a company that would like prime up people that doing social media management. I think

I mm I'm talking to Sam Trung, one of your lead writers for this for HVM. I think. There's a scarcity in this type of skill set. But but But Jake, what are the solutions to the all right, so we uh somehow we got to the solution of like some type of job board issue like vetted thing. Uh the other like obvious one is well, we're just gonna build up an agency where we hire Thousands of people that

That actually probably could work. It would be kind of a pain in the ass and not that exciting. What other solutions are there that you would that you propose for this? C I guess it would be maybe like A

A place where the people could put their highlights. Yeah, maybe like their their videos, but then their maybe their understanding of of social media, like a re almost if that someone had a resume Spot that was More robust. For this specific type of thing.

Um But it again it's difficult. It's a'cause it's a challenge this is a challenging thing. I uh Yeah, I hear this prob I have this problem as well, where I'm like, I just wanna hire someone who I could just say, just do it.

Uh it is but so I hear you. I'm and I've I haven't come up with a good solution. I just looked at Fiverr. Do you guys know f you guys definitely know Fiverr Uh they're m they're Uh maybe you could do just a more exclusive Fiverr. They have a pretty good market cap, eight billion dollars, publicly traded. Pretty fascinating. Yeah.

Yeah, but I think I think to your to Sean's point, I think Lambda has like a good model for There is, I think, best practices that some you know You know, someone like you know You know, John who who works with with Jake is like literally teaching, curating

Uh like just giving the best practices of what like a top tier, top five creator is actually doing with their setup, right? Like your guys' setups are beautiful. But like why isn't that replicated across everywhere? Right. I would pay. To just have that. Just set up for me. So would you guys invest in that?

Uh Would you basically just launch Jake like a I mean you wouldn't do this, but maybe someone would, uh for you. Uh a Jake A j like a like a like a social some cooler name than social media school, but a social media uh uh You know, like a school like that.

Yeah, so I've I've Try it. I've dabble I've dabbled in it. I've dabbled in trying to teach kids about social media and how to do it and like So on and so forth. And what I found was is that just people weren't dedicated, honestly.

Um And it was a lot of It was a lot of shit and lots of hours of content and me explaining and Um It just

I think People don't understand how hard of a job this is and uh how it's twenty four seven and there's so many different you know, parts to it. Um So

I've tried to educate I actually think what would be far more what what I think could be What I think could be interesting is if we created a like a where it it's not geared towards young kids. It would have to be geared specifically towards companies, and what you'd do is charge 10 to 15 grand and you your employees would go to it and you would have recorded talks by Jake Paul by Logan, but then you'd also be like, all right, now we're gonna talk to these editors. They're gonna show you how they do it. Um, and it's a three week no, you do a six week thing, you meet twice weekly for three hours apiece, and you just have a curriculum and it's just like a boot camp. I'm pretty sure you could build at least a ten million dollar a year company doing just that.

Um and potentially it could become much larber, like a larger like a Miami school for advertising, which is like a hundred million dollar a year company that's been around for fifty, hundred years, whatever, yada, yada, yada. You probably could do you could probably get quite wealthy doing just that. Well, I I think anti fund would invest in something like that if there's a creditor credible operator, right? I think Lambda showed the path for software engineering. Right. And I think you're exactly right. This is not like the train kids, like eighteen, nineteen year olds that are just like dabbling around. They just wanna kinda like hang out and get affiliate with Jake Paul. This is like, hey, we wanna Train

Legit social media managers. four top five hundred enterprises. I think that there's a clear a demand Again, like H you know the business I've worked with, like we would pay for that. And can I so I think it's like I if you guys chip in, like we can like in if the audience here, there's there's entrepreneurs out there every time we put out their hey Here's an idea. Like anytime we put out an idea that says, Hey, I have this problem or here I think there's a genuine problem in the world

And somebody could fill it, maybe doing this, maybe doing that. And I would back you if you wanted to do this. Dude, we get incredible operators coming out the woodwork. So when they hit us up after this, I will share, you know, we'll share it amongst the four of us. And if if somebody's legit trying to do this, great, we'll we'll go for it. Like Jake, I don't know if you saw this, but we did a Um a mini spec.

Where I just straight up said Um Hey, there's all these little small like SaaS companies out there. that are, you know, they're they're not doing great, but they're not horrible. And I said, instead of going to business school and wasting two hundred grand in two years of your life, I will gift you one of these businesses. I'll buy you a business for five or ten grand.

Um, that's making I don't know, a thousand dollars of profit per month right now. And um And you run it. You'll learn more from this than you will for business school. And a bunch of other people on Twitter chimed in. They're like, I'm in for 5K. And so it kept going. And now and we basically gifted this kid. He's a college senior. We gifted him a hundred thousand dollar business. It was a Shopify app. And uh it's a Shopify app that may it's already profitable. And the person behind it hadn't run it.

And so this is like a new education f model, right? Like Th this guy is not you know, he instead of going to business school, he's gonna get to run a business. And for us, we get a kickback if this guy's able to grow it. And if he's not, no problem. Like the business is already profitable. So there's already kind of like a floor on. How bad this can go for us. But we're we're pretty ballsy with the stuff we put out and people step up when we do. So I'm curious, is there any other pain points?

Or like, dude, somebody should do X or I wish somebody would solve this problem for for me or for people like me. Um is there anything else that comes to mind? I I'm curious. I'm trying to think of like right uh uh right off the the top of my head. Um Yeah.

I can bring one up if you if you don't have one as well. It's crazy'cause like To actually sit there and think about like This I I would I would wanna like put it out on Twitter more. Maybe I need to become better at at uh putting out some of these ideas. Like, guys, I we need help with this on Twitter. Um It's obviously fight week, so I'm just posting all this stuff about the fight, but I think

I think I need to get better at uh p posting uh like this business sort of stuff on my on my Twitter and utilizing it to to capture an engage audience because I have ideas like this that come up all the time. But I'm just like, oh no one's ever gonna do this. I think you'd be surprised. I think particularly if guys like Jeff or me or Sean eventually start like sharing it and then you start you're gonna start capturing like you know, our side of the world, which you already are, but uh I I think you'd be surprised at who would pounce on some of these stuff.

Some of these things. Can I can I bring up one quick one really quick,'cause I know we're we're getting close to time. I I j again, the reason why this is interesting is because I've talked to Jeff a ton about this. And it's also interesting because Jake's younger than us, but is like uh I guess technically you are a professional athlete. And then Sean doesn't care about any of this, but I think he's the ideal customer. So here it is. The average twenty-two year old male today, this is a tweet that went viral the other day. The average twenty-two year old male today has roughly the same testosterone levels as a 67 year old had in the year two thousand. The average testosterone level has fallen close to fifty percent in the last two decades. Pretty wild.

A company that I've been looking at and I actually passed on them and I kinda regret on it is called Peak. So I actually it's called Get Peak today. And so the idea here, and I want to hear What Jake. kinda like you're kind of speaking on behalf of like the a little bit younger folks. Um Sean, you're speaking on on behalf of people who maybe should consider taking this, but you don't. And and I do take it. So basically TRT. Uh testosterone replacement therapy. It's a incredibly scammy industry. This company get peaked.

Their URL is get peak today.com. I think they're doing something like fifteen million in recurring revenue in the first eighteen months. Um What do you guys think about the about this industry, TRT? Basically What we're explaining.

Listeners is just fucking injecting yourself with a needle with testosterone. Basically a PED. Every Well I I actually yeah, maybe I I actually have some experience here as a biohacker interested in human performance. So I actually did an angel investment in a company called Maximus. Uh, Keith Raboy and uh Formation A laid the seed round and they're just rolling out of alpha. The founder CEO is uh Cam Sepa, who is a UCSF uh trained uh uh clinical psychologist. So

He's doing some interesting work there exactly solving that problem. I think It is a Underspoken issue where yeah, exactly. Like literally the average man today. Their testosterone levels is like their grandfather's of of of thirty forty years ago. Is that

I mean we can go down all sorts of rabbit holes that might not necessarily be PC to talk about, but it is a very interesting for Sea levels are just dropping. I hate it. Have you explored this, Jake? As you've gotten into athletics, have you explored like your your T levels at all? Yeah, yeah. I've definitely I've definitely been tested for it and and obviously like mine aren't terrible. Um Like that, but Um

It's it's definitely it's definitely something that I think men talk about uh even at this age already, like it's starting to become this this bigger conversation. Um that that needs to be that needs to be fixed. Obviously there's a massive problem there. I think obviously due to our diet, our food, our chemicals, our pesticides, all that bullshit is uh obviously has to do with it.

And thirty w or when you're thirty, thirty five ish. And you're no longer and you no longer like, you know, I I I are you test by USA? I imagine you are, right? Um Usada, Wa one of those, yeah. I don't even know which one it is. Yeah, so like When when it's no longer an issue of of using a performance enhancing drug, would you be adverse to injecting yourself weekly for the rest of your life with testosterone? And how do you think some of your your uh

Peers would feel about that. I mean if you it's gonna increase your life performance and your your libido and your muscles and all of that stuff, then for sure. You know, especially it's only gonna get worse as you get older. And so if it's already this big of a problem in our generation, then then

Of course, you know, and it's and it's This is something that uh again is becoming a bigger conversation. And I think hair loss and all of this stuff are are all part of that. Maybe I'll invest in this company just because Jake said that

his peers would do it. We should incubator seed this this company, dude. This is uh this is one you I think you said this on like the first brainstorm we ever did this and this is still I think probably the best idea you've brought to the table. You peaked on day one of this TRT subscription company because you see what Hems and Roe have done Well they took the same thing, a a taboo topic like erectile dysfunction. Yeah. you know, early early balding. And they basically

Created a a top like consumer brand that built trust. And they went crazy building a D to C brand on, you know, through Facebook and advertising. Um Uh around that topic. And

This is I think i even better um business because it is a I I think the market is actually larger for something like this. I think some people are scared to inject. I passed on this on the seed round. On the seed round, I passed on this company and I was like and now I see their numbers now and I've got so much but it's frustrating. This type of thing, it's not even just like w a one winner take all like Hims and Roman are both multi billion dollar companies, both fighting in the US. I just invested in, you know. Roman for Canada because it's like The same th if it if it works in the US, it's also gonna work in Canada. It's not gonna not work there. And um and the these you do you need a very different like kind of uh legal and logistical setup to do it in Canada and these other guys are doing it better. So

I think that it's not like there's one company that's just gonna win here, especially If you had the power of distribution behind it, like if Jake and J Logan or whoever if If they invest in something like this and had it had skin in the game to be able to uh bring awareness to this crazy fact, right? A company only needs one insight to start. And if that one insight is

The average twenty five year old today has the same testosterone as their grandfather did at sixty seven, like it's dropped that dramatically. Like that one inside alone you can go start a company on or you'll figure the rest out as you do it. Uh you don't need anything else to get started. Yeah, I mean I think that's a thesis behind anti fun. I think it's like wha how how do investors help, right? It's like And like again, you guys are all operators too. Like who are the best people on your cap table? It's like can they make introductions? Can they give you attention? Can they give you customers? And it's like, And I think like you guys are pro I I I would invest in your funds because like

You guys have channels, you guys have people that actually listen to you. You guys are sharp, you guys get a lot of deal flow, and I think uh in in some sense, you know, we're starting a little bit behind in terms of our fund status, but like obviously Jake and I are personal investors and have some track record there. But I think People like us. I think will have outsize returns compared to

The middling VC funds who are run by People in the previous generation who don't get the strategy that we're trying to execute here. Yeah, I buy that. Okay, we should have a Well I know we're coming up on time. Sean, you wanna you wanna wrap it her up? Yeah, I I think we should uh how do people get more? So uh where do they follow you guys? How do they invest in anti fun, watch the fight, plug wrug everything you wanna plug. Uh for people who who have listened this far.

Yeah, I mean, I think in terms of the fund information, we're on Angel List. I think we're the top featured rolling fund right now. So uh Angel list search for anti fun. We're there. We we have profiles on Instagram and Twitter. Uh you can find Jake. at Jake Paul. You can find me at Jeffrey Wu on all the uh standard social channels

Uh And then watch Jake's fight. I don't know. Yeah, trilogy Thriller. Dude, on your on your on your angel fun And I love uh bullet point number four on your Angel Fun rolling fun sales page. What is it? As the earth is flat, the earth is flat. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean I think it's I think it just shows a little bit of personality where I think uh Um Yeah, I I think it goes back to the thesis that like if time is the ultimate commodity, what are the proxies of that? And I think it's like if you can command capital or if you can command attention, those are like the most powerful assets to today in today's economy. And hopefully we can execute and and and utilize what we think we have some advantage here to return, you know, returns for ourselves and our LPs.

Good. Hold on. Okay, we can wrap it up. Jeff, Jake, thanks for coming. Jake, good luck at the fight. I think you're gonna win. Uh sorry, Ben, if you're listening. I I just think that Uh, Jake cares more and is gonna try harder to win. I think Ben is is okay with the decision. And because of that, I think he's gonna lose rounds. That's my prediction. It's on the record. Sam, you're gonna shave your head. That's that's what that's how I think this all plays out. Uh thanks for coming on, guys. We should uh we should do this again.

We should do this again in like, I don't know, six months or a year, and we'll see what you guys are investing in. We'll keep shooting the shit and talking business. Yeah, a quick debrief. So I still feel like crap and I don't know if I told you, but We I was in Saint Louis when this happens, which is thirteen hours away. We were supposed to meet with Jake on like a Wednesday or Thursday or something. Something changed.

Uh we had to do it on Sunday. He told us like twenty four hours in advance. So I just drove back here. Um, and I got home at like I drove through the night. I got home about five AM. I had no idea. And then we did We did the podcast at like I forget which time, noon, maybe. Yeah.

I was exhausted. I'm still exhausted. So I was I hope I I hope it it went over okay. Well, yeah, I hope it turned out okay. I I I know that when we were talking to him live, there was like a little bit of a lag or like a delay just on his connection or something. And so that made it really hard. It made me just remember like how much more fun this is to do in person than online like I don't care how good these tools get, I don't care what Zoom is worth. Like

Doing the podcast in person is so much better. Than doing these online. Speaking of which although actually let's talk about Jake. Do you want to say anything? I don't really have much to say. I thought it went okay. It went fine. Yeah, exactly. It was fine. I would say it wasn't great. It wasn't bad. It was fine. Yeah, he uh you know he was like, you know, he took it seriously, I thought he did it Good job. He was trying to like

You know, he he brought he brought like he brought it to the table what he you know, what he had to bring to the table, which was like, Yeah, here's how I think about my business, here's what I'm focused on, here's some things that other influencers I think don't get right, but here's what I think I'm I'm doing better or uh you know, here's my how here's how I think about it. So I thought that was all good. I thought a bunch I thought I was a little bit disappointed in in a couple of things. One was

Jeff's great. I love Jeff. But also there was questions where I want like tougher questions for Jake that Jeff would take for him. And I thought Oh yeah, Je Jeff was totally blocking for him. Yeah, he was blocking, which I think you gotta do if the you know if that's your relationship, you're like the business guy in the partnership, so you're like okay, I'll handle that question. It's kinda like But it's the same thing, like You know, if you ask a CEO question and the PR person answers

You're like, No, no, I don't want to hear your answer. Like I know your answer. I want to hear that person's answer. And so that's the only thing where it felt like There were some times where I was like shit. Like Jeff, I know you have a good, smart answer for all this. I wanna hear what Jake thinks that'cause you know

He's the interesting personality, frankly, of like, you know Uh uh Why I was excited to do that was like I wonder how this dude who's totally different than me thinks about this type of stuff, whose life is totally different, right? You're one of the biggest YouTubers in the world. And um

You know, you're gonna have a different perspective than like me and Sam and and Jeff, who's like we're all kind of like the same, like Kind of like tech entrepreneur. What um How much do you think Jake Paul so like we I asked him about the Jake Paul like H how it's set up. And so basically there's probably a

He kinda said there's like a Jake Paul L C which probably most of the revenue is like YouTube ad or brand revenue. And then um then there's a variety of like I bet minor things. So maybe his investments or something like that. But how much do you think the Jake Paul media company

earns a year in revenue and profit. Ah man, it's hard to say. I okay let's let's just take it. I didn't bring this up to him, even even though this is something everyone wants to know, including myself. I didn't feel uh We I wasn't on that level. Um Okay, so like if you just take YouTube, uh I'm sure people can do b you know, uh on the fly here, I'm not gonna do the back of the envelope like how many monthly views is does this video get. Okay.

Then you assume a five dollar CPM for his YouTube ad, you know, Rev share. And then you say, Okay, he has these sponsors, I think they're gonna be seven figure Yeah. I would say his media side of things. Should be bringing in about

Ten million dollars a year. That'd be my guess. I was thinking a little bit more, but give or take. Give or take w uh no, I would like to do it. So I would say that's the that's the media side, which is his YouTube cut plus his issue is that He's not entirely brand safe, um, which there's no judgment there. I'm just that's probably the truth. Yeah, exactly.

Uh and then I would say the boxing stuff is probably gonna bring in About the same because They own a lot more of that, so even though the total pie is less You know, they don't have y YouTube takes such a big cut. that I think, you know, if comparatively, I think his boxing stuff, I think if they're smart, they're doing it like Floyd Mayweather, where they are the promoter.

Um so they're the promoter and they're the talent. And they put on the show. And then they they cut a licensing deal with Triller or whoever to uh split the like pay per view buys on top of that. So I would guess their boxing stuff's gonna bring in like five million to ten million also. Um And then on top of that is like anything else, you know, which is like

Maybe T shirts, maybe merch, maybe uh maybe other stuff. So I I feel like the whole thing. I bet you him and his brother uh sell collectively twenty to thirty million a year in merch. Yeah, which is insane. I think his brother does does more. Uh d I think his brother is a bigger enterprise than than Jake is because That his brother has the impulsive podcast.

Which I think is like the number one podcast, uh, you know, or like it's like top ten or something like that. Because um if if we include like the YouTube views they get. So I think that podcast has turned into a big thing for them. And then Logan also has like Maverick as his brand and like his merch brand or whatever. And I think that that's like a a stronger brand overall and has like a larger following than than what Jake has. That's my guess. But I'm not like I bet you I don't follow them professionally.

Me neither. I but I bet you he spends a ton of money. If I had a bet, I would bet that the difference between like Jake Paul person and Jake Paul media is probably quite like every all every expense is probably media expense or the company expense. So it's not not the same or no uh not really different. I bet you he spends at least half a million a month. That's a lot. Uh yeah, but he's got his crew, right? It's like all all three celebrities. You have a boss that rolls with you. It's like all right, we're flying here. You know, like they took a private jet af after our podcast. He got on a private jet and flew to wherever they're gonna do the fight. Uh for fight week. And because he's got you know big boxing match on Saturday. So you know the one thing I was gonna ask you is Um

You know, whenever somebody meets a celebrity, I always ask What's he you know, what's he like? What's she like? Uh which is It doesn't really matter what you say, it's like the conversation's usually not typically that interesting, but It is interesting to be like what's that person like in real life? So what was your impression? What's he like?

Respectful. Kinda quiet. uh listened more than he talked. Um He was just like a quiet a quiet young person. I mean uh

He seemed confident enough, but he was very polite. In the podcast on the podcast, Sean basically put me on the spot and was like, Oh, so say I want you to lose And he handled it gracefully. Right. So like respectfully. Like he didn't say like oh you eff it suck. He didn't disrespect Ben at all. So I thought he was very he was polite. He didn't big time us. He d you know, which we've had that experience with other people who either come on the pod or were trying to get on the pod, they'll You know, people who are famous and have a bunch of like obligations. Everybody wants a piece of their time. Everybody wants to have them interviewed or whatever. It's easy to kinda big time other people. I thought he was extremely respectful, did not do that at all.

Um You know brought his you know A game to the table. I thought like You know. This guy really is in some ways a marketing genius. Uh like

To build his self brand up the way he did. is actually quite impressive. It's to me as impressive as building, you know, I don't know, whatever Uh Yeah. the brand of Jinko jeans or you know, whatever, like any brand that kinda like hits some p pocket of culture.

Let's put this in context as well. I think he's twenty three. Twenty four, yeah. Mm. She's twenty four. So I think before the podcast started, we were like By the way, maybe we should put this segment like at the end of the beginning of the time, yeah.

Yeah. Uh, but he said something like uh yeah, we're like do you do inv he invest? He goes, Yeah, I've been angel investing since I was like eighteen. Sixteen. But I uh is that what he said? Sixteen. He's like I have a pretty large real estate portfolio. Like I invest in real estate. I'm like, Oh, wow, you're You've been doing this longer than I have, and I'm seven years older than you. Right. Um So That's pretty amazing. And you forget that. You forget that like

Whenever I see LeBron, uh like young videos of LeBron when he you know his rookie year,'cause I like to watch like old YouTube clips of him doing stuff. I'm like, Wait a minute. This guy's nineteen. You he's got reporters in his face asking him like, you know, you you threw the towel and you were kinda disrespectful and and he handled it with such poise, answering that question. I was like, What was I like when I was nineteen? And what was I like when I was Jake, Paul, uh, twenty three years old? It's pretty amazing. Yeah, there's videos of me goofing around pranking people or trying to make funny YouTube videos when I was probably 16, 17 years old that

you know, I'd get canceled for today, right? Because I was just a dummy. I didn't know anything about anything. I couldn't handle like Any kind of serious conversation. I didn't have a real estate portfolio, you know, I wasn't that guy. And I think This type of you know, getting um

Getting famous forces you to grow up one way or another. And also like a big part of it's who's around you. I'm pretty fascinated by all these like childhood celebr child celebrities. And it's like you see that their dad is the manager and then like They get to kinda taken advantage of by their best friend who stole from them and like this is so common. Like that's not It's not

It's not surprising when you hear that. It's like oh yep. That's the pretty much par for the course here with athletes and musicians and child actors, like That's just how it goes. And I would say the transition from like a

Platform to platform, right? Getting big on Vine. So go to new platform, get big there. Boom, move to YouTube. Then from YouTube, Instagram ha okay, so cool, you're building up your social following. Then it's like all right. What got me famous was, you know, be being pranks and jokes and silly stuff.

And then now you know, Logan Paul's podcast is like actually like More like real conversations. And they bring on you know crypto people and they talk about investing and they talk about this other thing. They bring on

You know, a porn star they'll talk about that. They'll talk about a wider variety of things. And then You you go then there's like okay, so they stayed relevant on social media for a while, which is hard. Then transition to this boxing thing, which I think is kind of a genius move, this like celebrity boxing angle that they took.

Because they're making a lot of money. And now they're like Just like a different chapter. It's like They got off the Daily vlogging treadmill.

Which every YouTuber burns out on. And they're like, all right, screw it, I'm gonna go train for nine months. I'm gonna do a boxing match against this other YouTuber. Neither of us are really in any danger because we're both suck at boxing, but we're each gonna pull down millions of dollars and do something different with our life. Right? It's like, oh, that's cool. Then it's like building businesses, starting a rolling fund that's like Continually reinventing yourself is interesting to me. I think if you If you listen to like whenever we do Billy of the Week.

It's usually somebody who's reinvented themselves And three or four different chapters of their life that uh is interesting. And this guy's I thought that was kinda cool how he's done that. He didn't say any of those things, but Just observ when I was doing the research, I was kind of taken aback by, Oh yeah, that's cool. He's already had like three three to four pretty interesting chapters.

Before the age of twenty five. I feel like I can rule the world, I know I could be what I want to I put my law in it like my days off On a road less travel never looking back

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