Transcript

Rapid Response: What the Democrats' campaign changeup means for business, with Axios’ Alex Thompson

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Join us at masters of scale dot com slash apply twenty six. That's mastersofscom slash apply. Twenty six. There's this frame that like O'Biden bowed out gracefully That's not what happened yet.

Joe Biden was pushed out of this race. by the Democratic Party and by the leaders of the Democratic Party. It has surprised me how quickly every leader of the Democratic Party has endorsed Kamala Harris. Top Democrats had signaled publicly and privately that they prefer to have At least some sort of a competition rather than a coronation.

And really the story that people should be paying attention to the next month. Is Kamala Harris is not just gonna let the the Biden campaign run as it was before. But she also doesn't want to change it enough that it falls to the ground. That's Alex Thompson, national political correspondent for Axios.

With Joe Biden's withdrawal from the US presidential election and the subsequent wave of endorsements for Kamala Harris. I wanted to better understand how the sudden U-turn within the Democratic Party will impact voters. As well as businesses. Axios has been a source of some of the most insightful twenty twenty-four campaign coverage, and Alex has deep access to the Biden White House. Alex shares behind the scenes info on what's driven the dramatic changes of the past few days. plus the role of business leaders going forward.

how the Harris 2024 Enterprise is going into startup mode and more. The road ahead is still unclear, but Alex gives us some signposts. To help orient us. I'm Bob Safien. This is rapid response. I'm Bob Safian. I'm here with Alex Thompson.

national political correspondent for Axios. Alex, thanks for joining us. So good to be here. So While last twenty four hours or so, it's Monday evening and

We are really not sure exactly what's gonna happen with the Democratic nominee. Although you knew all this was coming, right? How did you find out? I found out sitting right where I'm at right now, working the afternoon. I was tempted to go see a movie and go wild. Uh with my social life by doing so by myself. Wild, yes. Yeah, I was gonna go see Twisters, so I was very excited for it and I was like, Yeah, I got some stuff to Yeah.

The way it's thought about it is that my head said that he was gonna drop out but my heart just Didn't think he was just because I didn't know how he was gonna get there psychologically. Yeah, Joe Biden's If you would would call it a superpower is sort of his resilience.

Um and The fact that when he's knocked down he like keeps going. I also think He really believed he was the most likable person against Donald Trump. Even as the rest of the party and lots of his friends were saying otherwise. And I was a little bit surprised, you know, that he would sort of

To say you know you know, cry uncle. Uh after Mancy Pelosi really was Uh saying it's time for you to go. No, I I I have to say that I You know, from the moment I was watching that debate, I thought like

This guy's gotta go. And yet this morning I woke up and I was a little bit like sad for him and for his family a little bit, you know, like emotionally, as you say, like it's It's a hard thing to So To turn away from.

There's a lot of Sadness and anger. Among people that have worked For Joe Biden in the past. People that weren't around, you know, those last six months. People that

Yeah, but a lot of these people give up a lot of the prime of their lives. uh, you know, working for this man, whether I was in the Senate or vice presidency Yeah, I think the reason it's both sadness and anger is because Yeah, they obviously are sad that it's over they're sad that it ca that it's over in this way. Where

You have an incumbent president basically giving up power four months beforehand because a significant part of the population uh No longer believes he is capable. But I think that the the anger really comes From a place of How did the people that spent time with him

Frequently. Let him get on the debate stage. This was not the first time he had acted that way, and why did the people that were spending time with him every single day, which was a small crew, Let him get on that debate stage. And get to this point.

So This news comes Yesterday afternoon. It's now Monday evening. In the time since then, I mean it's been kind of crazy. Mm-hmm.

What's unfolded as you expected? And what surprised you? It is surprised me how quickly Every leader of the Democratic Party has endorsed Kamala Harris. Yeah. Um Nancy Pelosi and several other top Democrats had signaled publicly and privately that they prefer to have

At least some sort of a competition rather than a coronation. Um the fact that At least as of this taping, Kama Harris has appeared to mostly wrap this nomination up. Within, you know, thirty hours.

Yeah. Um did surprise me. I I thought that You know, given her performance in the twenty twenty campaign and given sort of some of the unevenness Um of Her vice presidency, plus, you know, uh I I can tell you, like Joe Biden is senior team, their concerns about Uh

Even despite what I just said, I'm not totally surprised that Joe Biden endorsed her. Take the politics out of it. Like think about Joe Biden as a person Neo, loyalty is the highest virtue. in Biden world, which is also part of the reason why

You know, he was offended by his perception that He was more loyal to Obama than Obama was to him. and was offended by what he saw as Obama preferring Hillary to him in twenty sixteen. So Yeah, I I don't think it's Knowing Joe Biden, it's not so so surprising that he endorsed Cam Kamala Harris, but I guess I was surprised that the rest of the party went along so fast.

Yeah, the uh the the parlor game that began almost immediately yesterday afternoon of like what might happen and who might it be and this the whole idea of of a more open convention, all that Um it's it's like that's trying to be squashed down really quickly. Yeah, uh absolutely. The the Democratic Party is made clear they want

Uh after you know what what truly was a a Agonizing three and a half weeks for the party. Uh they just wanna have an ominee and just s have this news cycle from hell be over. I think that's again surprising is Yeah, we haven't really heard from Harris. Uh In a while I mean sh most of events are very tightly controlled, or friendly environments on friendly issues.

We really haven't seen her do a tough interview for a while and What happens if in like a week or two Uh she finally does a big sit down and she's a mess. Yeah, then I think there might be some buyer's remorse, but Um but also maybe like there's not that much time to election day and Democrats wanna get on with the organizing and trying to beat Trump, and in which case

Yeah, having this mm you've very fast coronation makes a lot of sense. How much Leeway was there with like the money that was there for Biden, the the delegates that were Posted but I mean did those automatically revert to her or it it was there actually more flexibility? Is there still flexibility?

There definitely was flexibility. I think if Joe Biden had not explicitly endorsed her. Um This would be a very different thing. And you saw some some prominent Democrats resist the momentum. Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer. Kim Jeffries. All did not endorse her yesterday.

Right um that was intentional to see how this would play out. It was like a waterfall today. Yes, exactly. The money thing is complicated because Yeah, the DNC has a hundred plus million dollars cash on hand, and that can be used for any democratic nominee. The Biden Harris team also has a hundred million dollars ish in hard money. And some lawyers argue while Biden's dropped out because Harris is on the ticket, she can use it.

As Harris for president. And there are some people, less of it's a minority opinion, that says, like, no, you actually can't do that. Um And there're some people that say like it doesn't matter if it's Harris or the nominee, you can actually transfer that money to the D and C anyway. This the first election cycle between the Trump trials and Hunter's trials where my my mom was finally correct in suggesting I go to law school.

I a as a show that focuses on on business, one of the things that we've been reflecting on is the sort of the level of attention. He'd be able to do it. to business leaders' positions on candidates, you know, like one of the early New York Times stories. yesterday highlighted that LinkedIn co founder Reed Hoffman had endorsed Harris. Reed hosts a sister podcast to this one. Like, since when did the billionaire class

You know, count As an endorsement? You know, in the same way that a political leader would? It is sort of strange. I I mean some of this is s you know, the post citizens United World were one billionaire. can have such a huge effect you have. Think Elon Musk last week the Wall Street Journal reported would

to forty plus million dollars in a super pack backing Trump and yeah you have you know, these people of immense wealth being able to fuel tens of millions of dollars of of campaign, and that means It's worthy of tracking them. I think it is this The the this uh strange dynamic that We have

increasingly just accept as normal, but maybe is a bit Off. Mm. And so whether it's Silicon Valley folks, Elon Musk or Reed or Even Jamie Diamond, like You really think it it's all about the money. It's not necessarily that there's other influence because, you know

It matters what Business Leaders think. I think there's probably some of that in the same way that Um

Yeah. How many voters really could Sherry Brown endorse Conva Harris? Um I don't know. But but Sherid Brown is like an influential figure among a certain group of people, and it's a signal to them. And if uh you know a a pair of people group people in Cher Brown's center of of Ohio, if people don't know. And like I think you know, Riedhofen's sort of the same.

Um, where he is a signal to other people in his sort of influential group and that is why it is important. That being said, you know, some of it I think just has to do with the money. Mm.

Mm. So I on this show when we talk about it. Startups. We sometimes use this analogy of, you know, how startups are like jumping off a cliff and building a plane on the way down. And it seems like that's kind of what this democratic campaign is forced to do, you know, even though the

The Democratic Party is not historically an agile, fast moving uh operation. Um Do you have a sense about how Yet that like the party is trying to Build the plane in this moment.

Yeah, it's in the I say the metaphor um is a bit a a bit tweaked in this scenario because you did have a plane that was flying. It wasn't flying very well, but like The Biden for president reelection campaign, it was air Right. turn into a you know multiple engine failure, like steep dive.

And now they're in a situation where Yeah, maybe they've leveled out, but still like an engine or two is out. So that I guess to to m continue the metaphor way too long is that They are They are trying to fix the campaign.

Well, they are airborne and very close to the ground. And that is what Kamala Harris and her team is gonna try to do. And really the story that People should be paying attention to the next month. Is Kamala Harris is not just gonna let the the Biden campaign run as it was before. But she also doesn't want to change it enough that it falls to the ground.

Mm-hmm. How are the ways that she changes the campaign was operating? Who does she install? That she trusts. But also how does she do in a way that does not necessarily create sort of a a a free fall. advantages or I guess disadvantages of someone other than Carmel Harris.

That you would have to like You know, build a whole new plane. If there were some other ticket. Yes. comes with advantages and disadvantages, especially given

We are now four months before election day. And this is why, you know, Joe Biden's debate. Basically left the Democratic Party with no good options. Yeah, you could keep t put Joe Biden the ticket. That's like not a great option. Could you replace him with Vice President Kamal Harris? who'd had sort of an unsteady record.

But would inherit the plane as rickety as it was. Or you could try to open up the process and let new people build their own plane, but the problem is they only have four months to do so And You know, Donald Trump declared for president.

you know, eighteen, nine twenty months ago, and has a twenty month head start in building his own plane. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I you know, I was I was a little surprised'cause I And maybe this is just the storyteller or the media burst in me that like as As

Painful as the media story has been for the Democrats over the last three and a half weeks, like Keeping The suspense of who would be on the ticket. You know, like that's a great story, and you get a lot of attention and you sort of take up a lot of air that keeps, you know, that attention away from Trump and the Republicans. Yeah, th there was definitely an argument I heard from democratic operatives, including operatives

close to potential uh you know presidential candidates. Believed. In an open convention as chaotic as it would be. would actually be the least bad option of the bad options available for this reason is that

You would grab Eyeballs attention. Right. And you'd bring energy. Right to a party. That really needed it.

as chaotic as the campaign might end up being, it would be just like this adrenaline like multiple adrenaline shot as you'd have this big debate. I mean, listen, if there's anything Trump has taught us, right, it's that like getting attention is an art form that works, you know? I think the thesis of Trump's life is that all attention is good attention. The battle for America's future may well hinge on who can best grab America's attention.

Politics is a marketplace after all, and Joe Biden was, in effect, failing as a salesman. After the break, Alex shares what Kamala Harris has to overcome in her sales efforts. Why risk taking is in short supply for both parties, and how he finds clarity amid the noise of the news cycle. Stay with us. When you've built substantial wealth through your business, it's often tied up in a single equity position.

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Learn more at creative plating dot com slash masters of scale. Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show because every Friday we release a second Rapid Response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely. From Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there. Humans will never be more intelligent than AI.

Those were great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future? That is human centered. I'm Rana El Kalyubi. And on my podcast, Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone.

Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future. And we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Before the break, national political correspondent for Axios Alex Thompson explored the impact of Sunday's jaw-dropping political news. Now, Alex talks about what Kamala Harris has to overcome, key advantages that Trump holds, and how the outcome of the presidential race may depend on risk taking. Let's dive back in.

You had a a scoop early today about You know, that that Biden sort of initially didn't think Kamala Harris could win. Was that In part because he didn't feel like

She could generate that attention? Like, do you have a sense about why He had that concern about her. Yeah, I think there's three parts to it. One is his own ego. Right where he w he had sort of convinced himself that he was the indispensable man. The second part is that they're just very different people and very different generations. And I don't think

In some ways Biden and completely appreciate her skills. Because his skills are so about like being a politician from Delaware, it's all about how many hands can you shake.'Cause you can basically shake everyone's hand in the state. And then the the most uncharitable explanation towards Kamala Harris is that You know.

Biden was just really not wowed by her performance the last three and a half years. And there was this feeling that She churned through staff. to an incredible extent. Um I can give you like one stat. So you know about half of the the vice president staff is paid to the Senate. And that requires staff disclosure. So we don't have the full staff, but we have a significant portion of it. The forty seven. people that were on her Senate staff disclosure.

At the beginning of her term. Of those forty seven. Only five are still there. Wow. And yeah And I even compare it, you know.

DC's a churning place. So like I compared it to the by to Vice President Biden's First term, same period of time of the Obama administration's first term. Of the thirty eight people that started. Uh, with Joe Biden at the beginning of the Bama term, seventeen were still there. At the same period of time.

So this is an abnormal level of churn. Um and staff turnover the vice president has She also at times with regards to migration and other issues The the White House felt that she walked away from responsibility rather than embraced it. And you know, was Trump w was not always a team player as she was looking at for her political future. Yeah, Carmel Harris' team at times felt that the White House

Well Almost intentionally not trying to Give her clear wins. Again, this is from the the Harris side. The White House didn't want her to be seen as like a air a a clear alternative going into a reelection where there were some doubts about Biden.

Mm. And yet he He chose to endorse her. Despite all of those. And yet he chose to endorse her. I I think the thing to remember is like

There's there's this frame that like oh Biden browed out Gracefully That's not what happened here. Joe Biden did not want to Bow out of this race. I think just w listen to every single appearance he's had the last four weeks since the debate.

Joe Biden was pushed out of this race. By the Democratic Party and by leaders of the Democratic Party. And then once he decided, okay I'm getting out of this race. Then he basically just has a decision, do I endorse Kamala or not?

Yeah. And based on sort of what we talked about with this loyalty code. I think he basically said I prefer to endorse Harris. R than not. We still have a long road to go before there's mu there's much clarity in there. So much noise right now, so much feels like it's changing and it's unstable and it's unknown and

You know, as we see just the last thirty hours. What do you hold on to as firm? In this moment about where the party is and where the the election is overall. Or can you not? Do you just need to be like reactive and attentive.

And see where it all goes. It's a great question. If you are any candidate in this race, you want to be Donald Trump. Right now. The back matter is that this is probably the strongest position Donald Trump has been in in his entire

Short political career. The Republican Party is more united behind him than ever. He is also not In the midst of a once in a century pandemic. And you know, there is a world in which we think back where

Yeah, even though Trump was dealing with Covet. He only lost by forty five thousand votes across three states. Yeah, there's also a world in which Yeah, the the country just After the the sort of dual traumas of Covid and what happened with the economy.

is is much more risk averse. They're not happy with the status quo, but they're actually much more risk overt, that that they're they're wary of change. At least the sort of change Trump is promising. Even though like most Both candidates are not talking about Covid at all. I think Covid is sort of this

Quiet factor in how people are deciding. Mm. It's really interesting that the Democratic Party doesn't yet have a Doesn't have a real Cohesive story of the future.

That's different than the present. Right. They're just riding on like here's where we are right now. Let's just keep in this lane. Well and that's the risk of picking Kamala Harris as your nominee, is that Yeah, she is not distinct from the current administration. She is inextricably tied to this administration. And the various the first ad from the Trump super pack.

Was very focused. On basically saying She is Joe Biden. And I think The Democratic Party Especially elite in the Democratic Party.

After the debate. have convinced themselves that all the problems they have Are only tied to Joe Biden's age. Mm. And not to their record. Mm-hmm. And

The Trump campaign is saying No, like there's also problems with your records. And we will see how the Democratic Party responds to that and how voters respond to that. And we we honestly don't know. Yeah. Well, Alex

Very thoughtful of you to join us. And I hope we'll keep this conversation going. It's it's a crazy, cra what to do and what to think. Thanks for helping clear it up a little bit as much as we can for our listeners. So fun to be on. This presidential election season is unfolding like a season of succession. There's one twist after another, and predicting where things will end up is anyone's guess. What's striking to me in Alex's observations is how risk-averse both parties seem to be. Publicans harking back to the past.

Democrats trying to hold on to the present. Neither seem particularly focused on the future, which of course is where we're all headed. We'll see if that shifts as the campaign evolves in the weeks ahead. Regardless, the future is where businesses and business leaders need to keep their focus. I'm Bob Safian.

Thanks for listening. Rapid response is a wait what original. I'm Bob Safian. Our executive producer is Eve Tro. Our producer is Alex Morris. Assistant producer is Masha Makutonina. Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastanelli. Theme music by Ryan Holiday.

My head of podcasts is Little Malad. For more, visit rapidresponsshow.com.