#302: Own the Day, Own Your Life - Aubrey Marcus

Optimal minimal. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. So then I'll sort of question. Now it is. A cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endocelet. S

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Ninety nine designs dot com forward slash. Tim. Hello, boys and girls, and welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to interview incredible people who have done incredible things and to tease out the habits, routines, life lessons, and so on that you can apply to your own life. My guest this episode is

Aubrey Marcus. You can find him on Instagram, on Twitter, et cetera, at Aubrey Marcus. He is the founder and CEO of On It, O N N I T, a lifestyle brand based on a holistic health philosophy that Aubrey calls total human optimization. I've spent a good amount of time with Aubrey and he walks the talk in every way that I have possibly observed over the last few years. On it is now an Inc. five hundred company. It is one of the fastest growing private companies in the country, and an industry leader with products touching millions of lives, including many top professional athletes around the world. Aubrey currently hosts the Aubrey Marcus Podcast, a motivational destination for conversations with the brightest minds in athletics, business, science, relationships. And more with over ten million downloads on iTunes. He's been featured on the cover of Men's Health, and his newest and first book, which is on my coffee table right now, is Own the Day.

Own your life from Harper Collins. Without further ado, please enjoy this wide-ranging conversation with Abrey. Marcus. Okay.

I'm Marcus, welcome to the show. What's up, Tim? Hey man, I'm gonna shake your hand because I don't know I usually do video. And here we are, man. In the Shanghai of Texas, otherwise known as Austin, I've never seen so many cranes in one place. In the United States. Yeah, it's thriving. It is really thriving, and I think we're on the cusp of all sorts of fun in the next couple of years. I like it. People whine about it like oh you know, Austin used to be this kind of reminiscing fantasy thing. I think it's just getting better. Well, I think it's uh It's like talking to someone who went to a concert in the early days with any band. They're like Bernie Man used to be so cool, man, in two thousand seven before you got here in two thousand eight. Grateful Dead, I was at their first show. Now it's so uncool. So there's there's a lot of discussion.

along those lines about Austin, but Uh, you are one of the people I know best here in Austin. Yeah. And I'm thrilled to have you in front of the mic. Yeah, man, you came out. It's been dope. Got to hang out, have some wine, have some dinner. Oh yeah. And uh I know I'm not impressing anyone with my uh forty five pound deadlifts in the Ana gym. You have a lot No, but it's your persistence though, Tim. It's the fact that you do it so many times and only do that. That's like Oh wow. That's true. I was working on a program from Jersey Gregorick, the sixty three year old former world record holder in Olympic weightlifting, doing only

overhead squats, if I remember correctly. For like an hour and a half. I'll day. Yeah. Let's get him to an all more overhead squat. So part of the reason I wanted to have you here to have this conversation is that I feel like you are one of the people who really walks the walk. In checking the boxes of these overlapping spheres of life, whether that is body business, let's just call it balance. I'm actually borrowing this bit from a a weekend event one of my friends went to not too long ago. But you you've done a really good job of integrating those various pieces. And so this format of this particular podcast is going to be a bit experimental.

and jarring maybe and it's lack of transitions. But I wanna start with a question I was recently asked at a small dinner. And the question was posed by a guy named Michael Hebs, who's fascinating guy, very good chef. organizes dinners around specific topics very often. So he did one, I think it was called dinner or dining with death. And it was in cooperation with NPR and it was a facilitated conversation around mortality. And he's done many of these and had a small dinner with him in LA with about six to eight people. and no one really knew any other attendee.

And to break the ice. He started with this question, which just opened up the floodgates. So that everyone got very vulnerable and very open very quickly. And this is it. So thank you, Michael. When is the last time that you cried tears of joy?

That you remember. Oh man. That wasn't too long ago. That's That's a a more frequent occurrence for me, actually. And as I've done, you know, a lot of work on my life and it hasn't been the external stuff that ever makes me cry tears of joy. It's not a big on it success. It's not something external that happens. It's really just sitting in a moment. It can be with a lover that I'm sharing a night with and I'll just start crying and just the experience of enjoying that simple moment or laughing with friends or I mean

It's actually a rather frequent occurrence, and that's One of the best indicators for me that the path that I'm on is yielding the kind of fruit that I'm really looking for and looking to forage because I catch myself doing that all the time. I actually today I had a little informal mentorship with one of my employees. And just as I saw that breakthrough moment, I saw that moment where you know, I was talking about her working not on her business and not on her career at on it, but on her heart and how that and she was like, Yeah, it's a big project And I go, Yeah, it is a big project And I saw that light come up And just the tears will come in that moment for me too. It's just like

Fuck yeah. You know, like I'm I'm I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing and then just the gratitude for being able to do what I'm supposed to be doing. It'll just it'll come. Is that something that has always been the case, or is that something that has become more frequent with any kind of Trigger or Catalyst.

It's uh It's it was very rare. You know, I think it was very rare because I think most of my life I was trying to achieve something. I was trying to validate myself externally, trying to say if I get to this point, then I'll be successful, then I'll be you know, living up to my potential, then I'll be that. And whether it was in high school for basketball, like, oh, if I make all state honors, then I'll be there. If we make it far in the playoffs, then I'll be there. And it was always This next thing.

But it's never the next thing. You can keep searching for that next thing. You're not gonna find it until you turn that gaze truly inward. And as that process is gone, and I've almost kind of exhausted the external thing, so it's kind of forced me to go internal, because when on it was successful and the external was great. Then And I still wasn't that happy.

Deeply. And I was like, All right. It's definitely not external. Like this is internal. And that's driven me deeper and deeper inside my heart. So if I look back at my own experience With uh relationships with people who've unfortunately taken their lives. It's not

The depressing outwardly depressing cases that you would expect. It's actually very often the people who have a lot of money. Not always. Uh Certainly. But It strikes me that for instance one of my best friends

uh Andrea in high school Then two friends later in college uh seem to have everything going for them. And of course. I shouldn't say of course, but I

Nobody saw these coming. And they were They all had a good amount of money, and my theory related to that. based on what I see also in people who are

from the outside looking in, very, very successful, very, very wealthy, but miserable. Is that for a long time for most of life, if you're fighting it for every scrap to get this external validation, you can envision a day when I have X. it'll all be great. Yeah. And this anxiety I feel, this fill in the blank that I feel will go away and then it doesn't go away.

And so then at that point, if you've checked the boxes it seems like you can lose hope or if you grow up rich. And you realize it does not, in fact, is a panacea solve your problem. So my question then, walk us through how you shifted your gaze to be more internal because I've I've seen that in you. We haven't known each other that long. We've known each other a while. Yeah. And

I'd love to just hear how you made the decision or how you were forced To look. inward because a lot of people get to a point where the outside world, third parties would think of them as successful, but they never shift the gaze. Yeah.

So so how did it happen? It's in combination from like external pressure, you know, external pain, internal pain, like pain as a motivator to let you know that Something is wrong. And then so that's kind of like your engine light blinking. And then it's the practices that I've employed that help me have that introspection to actually go searching and figure out what it is. So it's always been a combination of that. pain plus the tools to go seek out where that pain is coming from. And I was fortunate, you know, I was given an opportunity to do a vision quest when I was just out of high school. And I was staunch atheist, zero spirituality. How did that come that was through my father, like one of and I had had a lot of issues with my dad, but he was in a lot of pain himself and that had taken him down

you know, to try everything from primal therapy to all kinds of different conventional methods eventually into psychedelics working with actually with Stan Groff. doing holotropic breathing, doing LSD psychotherapy, doing and he found a shaman who worked with Where was this? This was in the mountains of New Mexico. Mm-hmm.

And He after high school in that traditional kind of vision quest kinda idea said, you know, you should go experience this. Because at that point, you know, he would talk about anything on the fringe of spirituality and I'd grown up here in Texas and getting washed with religion, capital R religion. I was like, fuck that. You know, Dad. Like I'm not interested in that. Like I saw the dungeons of the Inquisition. This is bullshit. You know, this is bad. And he's like, No, no, just check it out, you know, and and see what happens. It's a vision quest. And I respect it like

you know, Native American culture enough and traditional culture enough. That I was like, all right, I'll give it a go. And I was fucking terrified. Like terrifying to people or describe what that Vision quest entails. Yeah, it's kinda the it's a r a traditional rite of passage where typically a young man, but it can be any man, goes to find an aspect of themselves that has been hidden, some calling, some piece of them that they don't

know about that they aren't aware of. And that's certainly what happened. You know, I was given a tea in the mountains in a very isolated place with a very loving and warm Um you know, mushroom shaman and she gave me a tea. And then after a little while

I felt my entire body evaporate into geometry. And I was like Oh shit. I got a lot of things wrong. You know, like there is something else. to this experience. And that was just this, I stayed up all night riding and there was thunderstorms and the Coyote howling. I don't know, they sounded like wolves, but I'm probably coyote speaking in New Mexico. And

And it was this crazy night of Just realizing that my whole paradigm at that point had shifted. I had realized that I'm not just body and mind. There's something else that I access, something that could observe both of those things. And that's been kind of like the fallback. you know, teacher for me. And finding the ways then to not just use the medicines, but find ways to get there in other means, because that's kind of like a feast. You can't feast every night, finding the other ways to access that identification point.

So you do not have Kids as far as I know. Mm at this point that you're aware of. But if I do have any kids out there and you want to claim it, like we'll talk about it. We'll figure it out. I'm in a pretty good spot now. Support it on it.com. Yeah.

Uh When you have if and when you have kids, not sure if that's in the cards, but if you do Would you Walk them through let's just say you have a son. And d doesn't necessarily matter, son or daughter. Would do would you walk them through or introduce them to a rite of passage like that? Fuck yeah.

Like there undoubtedly How would you structure it? What do you think it would look like? Well, I think as a parent, as a dad, you have to kinda get out of the way because part of the vision quest is getting your kid out of your purview. Right. You know, like allowing them to become their own man. So I would find someone who is, you know, separate enough from me that it I wasn't influencing the experience and someone I trusted and You know, I know a lot of people right now and I'm sure I'll know a lot of people even even then. And talking to You know.

maps and talking to Hefter and talking to those organizations that are working on the legalization of these as medicines, I think there's gonna be a lot of cool options um for people to do that completely above board and legally by the time I have a kid. I mean, they're targeting twenty twenty one for MDMA therapy and psilocybin sometime. After that. So I think there's gonna be a lot of options and it's gonna become more common. And um, you know, I just

send them with someone I really trusted and uh allow the process to unfold. And that's the thing, you you really don't want to guide it too much. You want to have the guide and allow the medicine and the and nature and everything around them to to be the teacher. I'm sure there are people watching or listening, who have had early say adolescent or high school or college experiences with psychedelics. But

Viewed them. In retrospect, is sort of uncontrolled recreational. So do you think the reason that vision quest stuck with you, how much of it was the psychedelics versus the Ceremony versus the guidance. I mean, if you had to try to weight those factors, how would youxtricable. Right. You know, like the experience itself blends together and becomes inseparable. Like you couldn't take one part and have it all be there. You know, it was the trust that I had in the guide. Cause I think one of the big problems with taking psychedelics haphazard is like Am I gonna die? Am I gonna get busted by the cops? Is this is this is the right environment? What is that? Is that person looking at me funny? Yeah, you know, like all of these crazy things come in and can steer it.

into really squirrely pathways, but having that steady loving presence available and just being out in the land and having it and knowing that I was part of a lineage that had done this. Thousands of times for many, many generations. that what gave me the support system to be able to really let go. Cause I think you can really stay tense and fight, you know, fight these experiences. And you get stories and reports of people taking incredibly high doses and they're like still so bound up they can't even release into it. But having a guide that really you trust is absolutely essential because they're really guiding you through this.

Massive bursting of a cocoon, you know, and it's it's pretty terrifying on its own. And having somebody there to help is Absolutely essential. And I only I only recommend doing it. in that context until you're somewhat of a master yourself.

Yeah, agreed. And definitely get external verification that you're a master. Not I've been on YouTube and I think I understand this well enough. I'm a black belt now. Yeah. Uh I watched Triple Rainbow three times. I know what bliss is. Yeah, exactly. What did you think you wanted to be when you grew up when you were Sixteen, seventeen, eighteen. You know, I think I really I was always into history and I was I would look at all the great conquering heroes and the great kings and the great

The people who had led these big movements. And I looked around and obviously you know, Genghis Khan was kind of an asshole. You know, I didn't really want to kill people and that's not the way it happens anymore. So really the people leading the movements, you had politicians, but they didn't seem like they were quite doing anything that I was interested in. And then so you had, you know, business leaders and thought leaders and authors. And so I think I always knew I was gonna end up in one of those categories, either leading an organization or uh writing books or speaking or something and

Interestingly, I doubted myself the whole way because I failed at absolutely everything I tried. And like what? What did you try that didn't work out? Literally everything. I mean, I tried gold mining, I tried some variety of different online retail from sex toys to skincare to I tried oil and gas. I tried like Oil and gas like trading side investing. Investor relations, you know, like trying to convince people to go bet on some wildcat fucking oil well in the middle of nowhere that never works. You know? And I'd get some stock options like this one's gonna hit. Never hit. Nothing. But now looking back, I'm grateful because

I literally failed at everything that wasn't directly going to serve my purpose. And all of those failures, all the lessons. gave me the strength to be able to hold an organization of this magnitude that I'm holding now, like the person that I was then couldn't run on it. Like I couldn't write the book that I wrote. I couldn't do the things that I'm doing. I couldn't have this conversation now because my ego would get in the way and uh all kinds of things. I wasn't ready yet. And so the universe was like, No, not ready. Fail, fail, fail, fail, fail. And uh but I was like, Man, I'm just I'm thirty and I've failed at everything. You know, I've scratched out a little money here and there. You know, I was doing all right, doing better than

Some of my peers when I would go buy bottles at the club and party, like I could buy a more expensive bottle than they could. And so everybody's like, Yeah, but you're killing. I'm like, I'm not fucking killing it. I'm like blowing it. Yeah. And that was that was tough. And then finally it just kinda lined up. With the the right timing and the right idea and the right person leading it, meaning me. And uh it was able to come to fruition.

So let's let's start with a snapshot of where we are now and then I'm gonna go back to you and your dad and sixteen for a second. Yeah. So on it Uh what is on it. How many employees do you have What are you proudest of?

Yeah. We have on its we call it total human optimization. So what I realized early on is that you couldn't and you mentioned this in the intro. Like balance. You really can't Specialize in only one thing.

and really reach The potential of that thing. You have to support everything else. Like you can go super hard in one direction, but your health is gonna fall apart, your relationships gonna fall apart. And ultimately that's gonna start being weights gonna be anchors, it's gonna drag. against your progress and it's gonna be a headwind for you in anything that you're doing. And it's the same with the body. Like you can take great supplements, but if your nutrition is shitty and your workouts are shitty and your sleep is shitty and your mentality shitty, so what? It's not gonna matter. So total human optimization is the idea to raise everything at the same time and really try to incrementally improve. And it's not as flashy and sexy as this

thirty day transformation expert in this one area, but It really works and it's through to the bone. And I think that's What I'm probably most proud of is that On it is what it appears to be. Like you go there, the people who were there, from me to Kyle to everybody who's in the organization. They feel that movement. The people who follow on it, they feel that movement.

I think it's just the vibe and the authenticity of what we stand for, the ability to be a little bit better tomorrow than you are today. And I think that's probably what I'm most proud of. How many employees do you do you have? Hundred and eighty employees if you count our yoga studios and count the gym and count the other entities that we own. How many employees did you have? Ten years ago. When did On it when did when was started uh in twenty eleven. Well, originally two thousand ten, zero employees two thousand ten. I was making like hangover supplements, uh mostly'cause I was partying too much. And I was, you know, really a lot of this was Well where's Where's the need for me? Well, at that point I was just drinking my

head off'cause I was unhappy. So I I first started making hangover supplements and then realized like uh that's not where I'm going. I'm going is to really improve my life in all areas. And that's when we pivoted alpha brain and different things. And yeah, we started we started and there was one employee who is my kinda like my right hand guy, part assistant, part

You know. Whatever, everything. The everything. The odd job. Hundred percent. And then uh yeah, we started getting geared up with alpha brain and then when it hit And we actually started having sales, then it was just like grabbing every friend that had something of a shaky job that I could trust and say, quit, quit, quit, come. Yeah. You know, and let's fucking figure it out. And I was in the attic.

of a little boutique that my fiance at the time, Caitlin, was running. And we were in the attic of this boutique and we were just bringing out literal trash bags of orders that we were hand labeling, you know, from the top of it. And that's that's how it started. I mean, we didn't have a lot of fun. I'd blown through the only funding I got. I got a hundred thousand from uh my friend Bodie Miller, who's the Olympic skier at the time. 'Cause a really significant friendship for me, and then an old investment banking contact that somehow didn't go broke when all the wildcot wells, you know, dried up and you know, I don't know how he he ever made money because everything I ever saw him do didn't work, but he gave me fifty grand. So I had 110,000. I blew through a lot of that trying to market these hangover supplements and it was like literally like the last twenty thousand dollars invested in uh an order of alpha brain on Net thirty. And then it hit. We sold out in twenty four hours. So net thirty meaning you had thirty days to pay for your manufacturing. Yeah. And cover the cost. Exactly. It was all in, man. It was just like here we go. Let's see. S so I I promised I'd get back to this, so I want to not leave people hanging and then we're going to come back to the attic.

Sixteen. You you mentioned you had a lot of maybe a complicated relationship with your dad. Yeah, conflicted relationship. Vision quest. Yeah. Was that an overnight experience or was it multiple. So you have this vision quest. Uh Two things. If you're comfortable.

Talking about it. Yeah, how was your relationship with your dad complicated? I think that's true for A lot of people. for those people who want a good quote, I think it's Ram Das, formerly Richard Albert. You can look up his history. But he said if you think you're enlightened, go spend a week with your family. So we all have our stuff. We all have our stuff. How is The relationship.

complicated, how would you describe it? And then did the vision quests affect it in any way. It did, but that took a long time to unpack. In fact, that's still unpacking, honestly. Like there's actually been an understanding, uh, a realization that's actually led to a lot greater happiness for me. And and I'll talk about that. you know, when I get to it, but if I go from the start, you know, my dad was a tortured soul and from his father who I never met, you know, his father used to hold trials for him and his brother. He was a lawyer.

And he would hold trials like friends, Kafka Skyle. They're like six and eight years old and put them on trial and they'd have to petition their defense and he would hammer them and cross examine them and then then read out their sentence, you know, and like some crazy shit like that. So it wasn't ever like physical or sexual, but like massive like emotional mindfucker. Serious head games. Serious. And so he my dad had, you know, he had a lot of his own demons and he started on the path to heal himself, as I said, to try and pass his little as that as he could off on his uh off on his sons. But you know

he didn't quite get there by the time he had me. So one little thing I would say, I remember one time he was playing ping pong, I was about four years old. He's playing ping pong. He mishits a ball. Ball goes flying off the thing and I run I run by and I go, home run. Okay, the fucking ball went out of them thing. Two days later it corners me, throws me down in a corner and starts yelling at H How could you how could you insult me like that in front of my competition? How dare you, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, Wow, wow, wow. Like

I didn't I couldn't even fathom that. Like, you know, it had so lost, you know, gone out of my mind. Right, right. So it built this kind of fear around everything I say could be misinterpreted. Right. And that any Especially with that delay. Exactly. The delay was the killer. Like if it was right away, you're like, you know, hot stove ouch. Okay, I get it. But that forced me to internalize it. 'Cause I'd be going over everything I said the previous day, the previous day. So there's this massive lack of trust around My dad, which I didn't really realise and then fast Going fast forward.

And we had a good relationship in a lot of other ways. You know, he was a brilliant man and taught me a lot and I'm grateful for our relationship. But I didn't realize that I never really trusted men, particularly men that had that kind of paternal role. So anybody who I had in that kind of father category, even peer category, like even when I give them a hug, it'd be like yeah, I'll hug you, but I don't trust you. Yeah. Like I don't know if one thing I said, you know, a while ago or is gonna cause you to go off.

And I didn't really realize that I was doing that to more people other than my father. Like it was extending universally to all men. Until recently, you know, someone who I had held in that kind of father, mentor, kind of role, our relationship really got you know, went askew and went haywire and I realized like Oh shit.

You know, I'm really damaged by this. Like this is really traumatic to me. And where is this coming from? Oh, this is coming from my dad. This is that same pattern. Did that just to occur to you while you're in the shower, or what was the were you journaling? What what prompted that realization? Yeah, I think it was it came kind of slowly and it was unpacking, you know, I I'm constantly doing different work and introspection. And it was somehow that pain, that external pain, again, going back to external pain being one of those indicators, like why am I fucking devastated by this? Like why am I completely floored? Why am I This is applying universally to everything. I was like really crushed. Then I couldn't bounce back. And then so it just forced me to keep looking like, what is this? Like why do I care so much? Or the person in that role had said to you that threw you off or It was an instance that repeated the pattern where I had

You know, and I don't want to get into the detail specifically, but like I had said and done You know, I had said and done some things that were interpreted in a way that I didn't intend. And it caused a it caused a break in our friendship. And and a lot of anger. And so it was that pattern of I'm never safe.

No matter what I say or do, it can be interpreted in a different way. And I'll never be safe. And it and it really allowed me to look at that. And And analyze that and say, All right, I gotta get to the bottom of this and I gotta understand

where this is coming from. And simultaneously, like I met Kyle Kingsbury, who's become one of my best friends, probably if I was to get married now, he'd be my best man. And He's also probably the most stable. Dude, I know.

Yeah. And so like it was a combination of having one example of like the most Oh, I I can I really think I can trust this guy. Like you can push him to the extreme and he doesn't shift, like under pain, under duress, under fatigue, under psychedelics, under alcohol, under anything. Yeah. And he can go from that initial experience of overwhelm to completely centered in A few minutes. It's it's remarkable. And we're talking about Kyle Kingsbury, who's our director of human optimization, former UFC fighter.

Um but yeah, it was a combination of one spinning off and then one being solid and realizing somewhere in there I can't pinpoint the moment, but I realize Oh. Like this is all stuff from my father. I've never really trusted men ever since that point. So that was like a second weird coming of age at thirty six. I'm about to turn thirty seven, where I finally felt like I wasn't I didn't need to prove anything to my dad. I didn't need to be get validated. I didn't need to show him that I was worthy of love anymore or any other man for that matter. And I could actually trust.

That I really do have male friends and I really do have people Who I can trust and if they go off, that's okay. It's not me. It's not my fault. It's Just

A pattern that happened from when I was growing up and That's been huge for me. That's been huge'cause I've always retreated to females as my solace and my comfort and having like male friends that I can really rely on and trust and kind of be vulnerable with.

in a really authentic way. I mean I would go do ceremonies and stuff, but I'd always kinda keep my Show. You know, and now to be able to relax into that. It's just I feel like uh A much happier individual. Yeah, like much more solid. Like having Having, you know, brothers of the way.

Yeah. It's cool. Well, if half the people you encounter are Potential threats. Exactly. That's a lot of exactly. Day to day existence. And I I can't even I mean, I sympathize so much with people who've had both. There both those roles be off center, off kilter. You know, like if you had your mother and your father, let's say your father was abusive and your mother permitted it and there was some weird dynamic there, then both sides you don't trust. And then you just don't trust the fucking world.

Yeah. You know, I was super lucky. I had one soft. One half dialed in. Yeah. You know, so I had a place to retreat. I had a place to rest. You know, if you have neither, that's a hell of a challenging road, but The good news is you make it through that, you'll be even stronger because of it. Yeah. And you can help people

If you do the work I'm gonna get back to the attic in a second, but if you do the work, what what I've realized also just recently, and I mean I'm forty now, but if No matter your circumstances or the hand you've been dealt, if you do the work Two. Uncover

The Worms. Heal the wounds or at least be accept That they exist. and begin to process that.

that you're not only doing the work for yourself, but you can then in turn help other people who've experienced the same thing or similar things. Right. So it's it's really valuable work, hard to understate. That's almost the turning point, right? When you take your lessons and your knowledge and then you can help other people. At that point, you got the inspiration, you got the momentum. That's the final healing catalyst. It's not healing yourself. It's the knowing that you've everything that you've suffered, all of that pain you've endured can now help someone else. It alchemizes it instantly into something that's valuable, something you can be grateful for. And when you're grateful for something, it's no longer trauma. Yeah. Like you've healed it. Like that's the full circle is gratitude for that, for what it's given you. Yeah. At least for me too, uh the the regard for myself or healing myself what is this sounds really odd to say, but wasn't enough. to motivate me to do the work I knew would be really difficult. But as soon as I realized, oh, well, even if I have no regard or very little regard for myself, If I can then develop a toolkit, learn about A, B, and C, and impart that to other people, that's enough to motivate me.

and since have developed more regard for myself. But it's like, hey, you got to take what works. And for me it was that realization, oh, I can actually hand this baton off to other people. So let's work with What what motivates. Yeah. Look at every like great epic novel. Like like what gets the hero inspired. It's not h it's not his own safety. He's fine like chopping wood and being in the forest, but when, you know, the oppressing force starts fucking with his family or starts fucking with his kids, you know, then then you unleash William Wallace. Yeah. You know, like if they didn't slip Mern's throat, like There may not be Scotland. You know what I mean? Like

What a we're wired to really care for those we love almost more than ourself. It's just part of the social dynamic. And you can tap in, you can like hack into that current and use that to your advantage. And that's like the cleanest burning fuel you got. That's like a fusion reactor from the sun, you know? Yeah and that's that's really what's gonna motivate you, not the other you know, ego based stuff. That's like burning coal. You know, you're gonna run out of that shit at some point. And it's not gonna work for you. And you have to breathe in the fumes to Exactly. You j you're just turning or you have turn thirty seven? Tomorrow. Tomorrow. Happy early birthday. Thanks, man. Uh

All right, thirty seven. So if we if we rewind the clock, I think you said two thousand eleven, right? So you're like twenty-nine thirty. And fulfilling orders out of the attic. I remember those days, by the way. When I started my first real business also in sports nutrition, I remember the when I decided to get a fulfillment company was when I was I I had to race off Two The post office. To ship off packages.

my car wouldn't start. So I got on my motorcycle. Used motorcycle with a garbage bag. Big bl like dark garbage bag full of boxes. Yeah. And I'm wrapping it around the throttle to try to make it To the post office. Almost die, obviously. And uh I get back, I'm like, that was dumb. You didn't want to go to Santa Claus. Yeah, yeah, I didn't hold it over to the Yeah. I'd have to have to really switch grips if I went Santa Claus. So I'd So I decided just to risk life and limb with it on the throttle. And came back. I was like, Okay, now it's it's time to start to outsource things. Uh The question I wanted to ask you is all right, so you you get up to

Betting the farm. Mm-hmm. on which is a very small farm. Yeah, which is a very small farm. You're betting the backyard on this manufacturing on an alpha brand with the thirty terms. Uh let's If we bounce out, say

Two years so to thirty two. from sixteen to thirty two, it could even be earlier, for like twelve to thirty-two, do you remember a s any point in time when you were like, wow, this is the richest I've ever felt?'Cause I remember I remember one very specific day in my experience, but when was that What was that moment when you're like, Wow? Well we've got to be a little bit more. I feel successful. Or I wow. This is more than I Could have anticipated.

Yeah, I mean that happened pretty quick after that because that, you know, with those net thirty terms, I was able to in the sales, I was really able to scale pretty aggressively without taking on extra capital or anything. And we had no overhead. I mean, that was just the cost of the product itself and a couple of friends who we were paying like twenty five, thirty gram, whatever we could kinda push together. And then, you know, it started to grow a little bit from there, but it was A lot of sales, you know, just product costs and a lot of shipments, no additional advertising, because at that point, you know, Rogan was the business partner, he was the advertising engine, he'd bought into the company. So I'd give an equity in exchange for the for the marketing. And I was you know

There was m serious money coming in. And I started looking at houses And I was looking at this house and I was thinking maybe you know, six hundred, seven hundred thousand dollar range, really get a house I could sink my teeth into. And I saw this house that was a million dollars. I was like a million dollar house. Damn. I was like, I think I can swing it. I think I can fucking swing it. You know, and it was just because it was my it was my dream house. You know, it had a nice backyard, and I envisioned what's there now, which is axe throwing and slack line and and pool and deck and fire pit. I was like, I can do this here in this house, and it had my style. And I just, you know, at that point again, a little bit early, but I still went for it like I think I can this thing looks solid enough, I can go in.

And when I went into that house, that was like a big moment for me,'cause that was a that was a real house. That was like a that was a big boy house. I was like I got a fucking big boy house. And that was uh that was really the moment for me when I was like, damn. This is awesome. Yeah, and you've turned it into the Aubrey Marcus house of Ninja Warrior Training and Assort of Delights. Yeah, it's been heaven. Uh is you mentioned a name that for those people who don't have context, I wanna explore for a second. You mentioned Rogan. Joe Rogan.

So some of you listening, of course, know who Joe is. Uh Most certainly. uh I I would say arguably the most powerful single sort of interview format podcaster period.

Um Part of the inspiration, certainly one of the inspirations for me starting my own podcast was being across the table from Joe and having such a wonderful experience. able to go long form be myself, although he fed me. You know, I don't know if I ever told you this, just I'm gonna digress for a second, because that's what I do. Very first time I was on his show. I he said'cause I've been on twice, he said, um

Do you want some bulletproof coffee? Sure. So he gave me some like a huge I mean, it must have been like twenty four ounces of bulletproof coffee. And then he goes, Do you want some alpha brand? I was like Sure. So I had like a handful of alpha brain. And then he goes, Do you want some pot? And I was like, I don't even smoke pot, but I'm in I'm a little intimidated. Joe's an intense guy. And I maybe it's spending time in Japan. I was like, Can't say no. All right. So I go into this interview on like twenty four ounces of butter coffee. A handful of alpha brain and Pot which I never

cons I very rarely consume. Nothing against it. It's just not really my plant. And man, oh man, that was that was a hell of an experience. Uh but Uh How did you first meet jokes. I think this is gonna tie into maybe a theme that I want to explore.

I listened to Joe do comedy. You know, and I'd seen him as the I was a huge UFC fan, all the way from UFC one, literally,'cause my dad was a fan of the sport. We'd watch that together. That was some of the good times. Yeah, right. I saw the first match that Savat foot fighter kicked the tooth out of the sumo reserve guy, yeah. Into the commentators. Oh boy, this is different. Yeah. That was Pretty epic. And uh so I'd seen him there and so I think that probably drew me to listen to his comedy show. And then I listened to his comedy show and I was like Oh shit. He's thinking about the same things that I'm thinking about. Like he's done psychedelics. He's into worrying about aliens and super volcanoes and all this stuff. It's like, man, I gotta meet this guy. And I kept

I kept running into him. at different events'cause I'd go to some of the UFCs, you know, when I could and I'd see him out and at that point he was still going to clubs and occasionally going to strip clubs and did he have the podcast at this point? Uh no. I don't think he did when I first started at that point. And then um

But you know, I'm just a fan at that point. So it's like, Hey Joe you know, blah, blah, blah. And you know, you get you're in like kind of fan zone at that point. And you know, I kept I saw more of his comedy show. Then he launched the podcast. And then that was super early in the podcast game and he had no commercials and it's just him and Red Band and they were just bullshit and it was just like a fun thing that they Everybody who knows Joe Rogan, like all in caps Marquee Joe Rogan should go back and see the some of the early shows. No, it's I think it's inspiring to see where this where where it began. No doubt. And I had an idea at that point, like oh well He doesn't have advertising on his show. Maybe I'll hit him up for

you know, to do some advertising and use that as a chance to like meet him and maybe elevate out of the fan zone so we can have a conversation. So I remember I set up a lunch meeting to just thirty minutes to just meet somewhere, talk to him about advertising on a show. This was in LA? This was in LA, yeah. And did you fly out just for this or you already there? I did. And actually it was it was interesting. It was like the universe. So Bodie Miller, who I mentioned before, Olympic skier, you know. still in his playboy mode at the time, he invited me for my first Kentucky Derby experience.

And it was like, oh man, I got a cancellation, got full VIP access, craziest parties you've ever seen, sweet at the Kentucky Derby. And I was like, and I had that one meeting with Rogan that was right in the middle of that. I was like, man, I can't go. I gotta take this meeting with Joe. And it was like a cool test. Yeah, it's like a cool test, you know. And um so I took that meeting and a thirty minute meeting to talk about advertising quickly turned into All those things, psychedelic super volcanoes and genetic bottleneck theory and aliens and all the phil philosophical things that we talked about. And after that he's like Hey man, I you know, I'd love to have you come on the show and we can talk more about this.

So went on the show and just his friends just started having a relationship with him. And it was a couple years after That I asked him the question like Hey man, like what supplement would you like the best yourself? And he's like, Oh yeah, I'm into new prutropics. And I was like, Man, I'm gonna make the best one that's ever been made. And I'll let you know about it. All right. So this was like made to order. This is like this is it. Bespoke Joe product. Yeah, bespoke. Now You mentioned in passing something earlier, and I don't know if this is the product that you were meeting to advertise. Oh I bet it was. I bet it was. I bet it was. So you mentioned the S E X T O Y S. Oh yeah. So what are we talking about? This was the number one male selling selling male sex toy in the world, the one and only fleshlight. Fleshlight. Yes.

Pocket pussy concealed in a obnoxiously large flashlight container. Which by the way, I should say uh on this podcast uh had Alice Little Who is the number one earning, as far as I know, legal sex worker in the US. And one of her top recommendations was I wish I could or Hm.

pronouncements was I wish I could get a a fleshlight for every male in the country for a number of different reasons. So uh endorsement. All right. So the people can look that up if they would like. But that was that was the con the product context for that meeting. That was That was the that was the client that I was working with and I was like, Oh man, maybe Jum will do something with this. And Joe brought that to his people. Now when you say client, so you've you've done a lot of different things. At this point On it does not exist. On it does not exist. So I have a marketing company. And that m boutique marketing company has, you know, a few people that are working with me and I have again a bunch of clients, most of which failed, but I couldn't fail at selling sex toys because people just want things to fuck. Yeah. It was a very easy, easy thing to learn and not suck at. So I was able to help make that thing work. And uh yeah, so I had that one going and you know, he he liked just the ridiculousness of it. And he liked the idea of not taking this show too seriously to do something like that.

And so he just went for it. And so if you go back to the old there'll be old fleshlight out there, I remember on there and uh might actually there well let's see. So I I came about Now did the did the fleshlight and on it Overlap at all or no. Did not. So yeah, I started on it after I actually got myself in a position where Um I was able to transition out of that company with some severance, never got any other

in incentives, but got a pretty generous severance. And took that and just rode it into, you know, starting on it and just running and then I had that hundred and ten thousand dollars and I tried to dip into that as little as possible with my own You know, utilization. No, that was the investment from Bodhi and from the other person. Bodie and the eye bankers. And plus the severance and just kinda rode that to the to the very brink of nothing. Yeah. And then again, it just came through like right in the nick of time. What what are some of the if if I know you read a lot, I've seen your library.

Uh It's one of the first things I do if I get to someone's house and I see a a bookshelf or bookshelves as I go start browsing. So you can learn a lot by browsing. Uh, including which books I haven't read. Not in your case, but if you see Warren Peace, you're like, All right, yeah, definitely movie dick. Like ask about those. Um I have war and peace. I'm like a lot, I haven't read it. It's too it's too intimidating. Uh I will get to it eventually, but Maybe maybe. Yeah. Dot dot dot maybe. Uh which books uh or resources

Do you view as having been very helpful? in the early days of of on it or later. But are there any particular books that helped you? Uh or helped you think about and develop the business. There is a direct correlation between my inner work and the outer success of on it. Like that correlation is as clean uh an associate as anything I have. So I haven't been one that's read a lot of business books. A lot of the books that I've read have been Oh yeah internally focused. And um

You know, there's been some really significant books that I've read that have kinda shaped who I am. And I think the first was kind of following that line of the Toltec philosophy from crazy Carlos Castaneda through Don Miguel Ruiz. And I think actually his most powerful book, although it's a little bit hard to get into, is The Toltec Art of Life and Death, which is uh A lot of people know Domingue Ruiz from the Four Agreements. Four Agreements, yeah. And then he wrote Mastery of Love, which is an incredible exploration of love and relationship. And then his true masterwork is the Toltec art of life and death. And then the thing I liked about it is it was the first complete system. A complete spiritual, physical, emotional system.

That You know, was self contained. Like It was like its own religion to a certain extent, but except it was something that I could believe and I could buy into and was practical and I could utilize those principles of the warrior ethos and the principles of the nagua, the artist who paints his masterpiece, you know, versus the person who allows the mitote, they called it, which is the dream of the world to shape their experience. And so that transition from just allowing everything, expectations and pressures from this person and that person to shape who I was to being becoming the Nagwal, the artist who more proactive. Who uses your intention to actually create the world around him and paint that masterpiece and and the laughter as the kind of guide, you know, knowing that you've made it.

And I always say that like you can tell a spiritual master by the sound of their laughter. Like if they aren't laughing, I'm not gonna drink your cup of ayahuasca. Like if you don't have a good belly laugh, like you're missing the point. You know? And and that's been a a really solid guidebook and a place that if anybody's searching, You know, I would definitely check out Toltec Philosophy. Toltec. Yeah. Art of life and death. Mm-hmm. Any other books?

Come to mind. You know As far as like building, you know,'cause part of building a company is building like a Kyle of ten years ago came to you and said, I need three books. Yeah. What do you recommend? Aldus Huxley's Island, I think was another crucial book for me. And that was um

Is that was utopian fiction. But the beauty of that is it was seeing how a system could work. In mass, you know, and it was the first exposure to rewriting the rules of how everything could be and understanding like, oh we could just change everything, like everything could be malleable. And then what are the downstream effects? And it's that classic class clash of utopia versus dystopia and how it all merges. And that's been something I've consistently fallen back on.

with a lot of like help and principles. So I think that one was huge. Um and then honestly, personally, this has nothing to do with on it. But personally, the book Sex at Dawn by Chris Ryan. was probably the third most influential single book. Uh because at that point

I was frustrated in conventional monogamous relationship and I thought that humans were like lions and we were supposed to fight to the death to protect all our mates and that women should be happy if they found the right lion. You know, and sex at dawn's like, no no. Humans like having sex, both sides. We're always gonna like having sex, and that's just the nature of things. And I go Oh man, like I had this wrong. It's not just me that's supposed to want other lovers. It's everybody that's, you know, from an instinctive primitive.

concept really is open to having a a more expanded view of sexuality. And that's led me down that was the initial domino that led me down the path of exploring open relationship, which has been a huge you know, advancement in my own personal happiness and fulfillment. Challenging as hell. I mean challenging as hell. But that book, if it wasn't for that book, I don't think I ever would have given it a try because I was operating under a false premise. So for people who are listening and they're like, you know what? I'd like to give that more expanded view of sexuality is shot. Any any any guideposts, any particular like guidelines? You have to be super committed.

like do not, you know, like know that it's going to be hell. Like you can have it all sorted me I had it all sorted mentally. I understood it philosophically, I understood spiritually, I understood it biologically, I understood it in evolutionary terms. But the moment that Whitney had another lover, I spent twenty four hours crawling around on the ground vomiting every time I thought of her having sex with somebody else. Like literally dry heaving. Like like a massive purge that I couldn't even shake myself out of. Like And that was step one. And then it gets a little bit better from there if you continue to do the work, but it takes a while to make it through. Like you gotta literally go through the darkness, you know, the dark night of the soul of your own insecurities, all your fears and insecurities and validation points.

Everything is going to be stress tested and challenged. If you make it through. You'll be really free. These things like jealousy, these things like insecurities, they will get pushed to the point where you either fix them or you s just suffer. And and and unbearable pain. So it forces you again, external pain is that force. It'll put you in pain and then it's up to you whether you can fix it or not. So we spent an entire podcast just discussing this. And um you and I have have have spent the equivalent of any podcast talking about this. Yeah. So maybe another time. But

Uh if we're looking back This could be Professional or personal, and of course they're so I mean the two sides of the same coin. Yeah. No matter how you slice it, but Do you have any particular

Failure that you can discuss. Um and I put failure in quotation marks because The The goal is to describe a failure that later ended up Setting the stage.

Or planting a seed for A success. later down the line. Are there any failures that come to mind or a failure that you just learned a lot from and therefore that helped you later? Mm-hmm. You know I failed at so many things and every single failure was helpful.

Like every single fucking failure was helpful. And there's not one that stands out, but there's some that I remember like I remember early in the days of on it, I was g allowed myself to get really stressed and I was trying to record a video and someone was knocking on my door and I didn't respond. I was trying to stay in line with video and they kept knocking and they kept knocking. This was when we had about twelve employees, fourteen employees. And I blew up. I lost it. You know, a little bit of my dad coming out. What? What the fuck do you want? If I don't answer the door when you knock, then I'm fucking busy. You know, I blew up, right? And and then I was like oh man. I go out and I open the door and it was like the sweetest employee we had, you know. And I think her name was Samantha.

And she's crying, and I go, Oh my God. Like what did I just do? Like she didn't know. You know, like and that was like a hard lesson. Like, I am not going to lose my temper, no matter what is going on with my life. I will not allow my anger to come out on my employees ever. You know, and it was like this deep, like I intern it like that was deeply painful for me. times I've done that in relationships too, you know, where I've projected my own shit and put that on somebody else and watched them suffer from the pain that I've caused and then having to deal with that businesses, every business like I said, every business I did failed. And then me questioning my own self worth. Okay.

I'm grateful for all of that and I'm sorry for the people who had to suffer along the way, the people who bet on me and invested in me and I failed in their shit, and the people who I hurt with my anger and the people who I hurt with my projections. But I'm grateful for the experience because without all of that and without the grace of that happening. I wouldn't be a fraction of who I am. Allergic to anger. Something I wrestle with. Something I something I grapple with myself. Mm-hmm. Uh

The anger piece, I'd love to touch on this,'cause this is also Part of my familiar cast of characters. Mm-hmm. And I think I've greatly improved over time. with managing that as a as an impulse, something that that really was embedded in me early. Yeah.

And Uh After that experience, what was your pattern interrupt? What did you say to yourself when you felt like the physiological response of about to hit takeoff yeah in terms of losing temper getting angry would H what was the

What was the technique? What was the approach? You know, it coincided with me talking because I started talking about that experience. And then I was talking to my friend Duncan Trussell, who's pretty steeped in, you know, kind of Buddhist philosophy, and he had a name for it, and I think it was Shumpa, and it's that feeling you get, it's that welling of energy. It's the and it actually feels good. And I think it was acknowledging like There's some part of you

that when that anger is coming, it like feels it's a sense of power that's rising. And I it's identifying that in the and the Toltec philosophy also helps us. Don Miguel helped me with that. But You feel it rising, and it's like the sw it's like the swell of a wave. And there's a choice right there where you either paddle Or you don't paddle. But to really identify this well and identify like

Oh yeah, this is gonna feel good. Like that power putting on that mantle and like breathing fire. Like it's going to feel good in certain ways, but the ramifications like never feel good. You know, the burning bodies, the house is on fire, when you're breathing that dragon fire. That never feels good. So It's really a hard choice. I call it mental override.

To interrupt. That that pattern when I feel that shumpa or whatever the whatever Duncan called it, that moment of takeoff where I start to bristle and the dragon fucking tentacles come out and it starts to come. Like I can identify actually, oddly enough, I haven't felt this in a long time. I felt it yesterday. Like yesterday and I I looked I was leaving my office and literally I haven't been this angry in

A long time. And someone's you know, someone on my team screwed something up super bad. And it was the second time on the same thing. I was like, Oh my God. And I found out about it seven o'clock and I looked at a table and I wanted to smash it. I wanted to take the table and throw it on the ground and like smash it. And then I was like Oh yeah, there's that thing. Like I remember how I did deal with this thing. All right, I'm gonna go for a walk outside. And I would go for a walk outside. And then I read this Japanese study, and I talk about this in my book, where six breaths

Six deep breaths actually lowers blood pressure. So they say take a breath. It's not a breath, it's six. Like six is the amount that it requires to get that physiological response. So I took my six breaths, I walked outside, and it wasn't gone. Like I carried it for a while. I talked to people, but I at least eliminated it enough that that initial wave of the the big wave of the swell

Passed. So the big wave of the swell passed. And I I paddled into a few other little ones, you know. I body surfed on some white water of that rage for a little while. Did a little long bow. Oh yeah. And I you know I fucking hammered a few emails and Yeah. You know, battle into it a little bit. But just my ability to recognize that and then trust the process that I'll be grateful that I didn't paddle into that wave, even if it would have felt good at the moment. Um It's just been a a gradual

Slow experience. Well you mentioned uh a couple of things I want to underscore. Number one is that It's not a binary pass fail, right? It's not it's not I completely quelled all of my anger, therefore I succeeded. And if I didn't do that, it's a failure it's like no if you dial back ten percent, that's a big deal. Totally. Right. It's the difference between like hey fuck face in an email and like dear John. I mean like that's that's ten percent is really meaningful. Uh

Uh so so that's that's one thing, that it can be incremental, but the the downstream effect of it can be much larger than that small increment of change you feel. Yeah. Uh the second, when you're talking about failures Is that Uh what

a lot of folks per per might perceive as a failure, which is a path that isn't taken to completion every 10, 20, 30 years. can still have a lot of value. And that's why I brought up the fleshlight. Mm-hmm. Right. Like if it were not for that, you wouldn't have had the context to have the meeting. Yep. Two.

I owe my success to pocket pussies. Well that that that actually leads us to This might be your answer. Uh this this leads us to I'm gonna hit a couple of uh Couple of rapid fire questions. I'll try not to make them long winded and therefore not rapid at all. But if you could put one short message, word, quote, anything on a billboard, metaphorically speaking, just to get a message out to millions or billions of people. What would you put on it? You know I heard you

asked this question to Wim Hof and he said, Breathe, motherfucker. Breathe, motherfucker. That was like the the best answer to that. So I think about it's and you know, I think other podcasters have kinda co-opted that question and asked it. And you know, I was thinking about that question. And you know, I was thinking I wasn't happy with my answer and then I realized like What I feel now what best expressed the state I'm in is what I would put on that billboard that was shown everywhere. Who'd say, Welcome to heaven.

Population everyone. Mm. And that's really what I feel. Like we have this choice right now. to engage with life, all of life, and all the opportunity to s smell and eat and travel and converse and meet people and have sex and enjoy and create and build. Like

This can be heaven, but we gotta get out of our own mental hell first. And so reminding people like, hey You know, all right, extenuating circumstances, maybe, you know, Sarajevo in certain places. Yeah, it's fucking tough. I get it. Externally it might be hell. But for most of us, especially listening to this podcast. We're in heaven. Yeah. We're in heaven.

Like And it's just our choice whether we want to engage in it that way or whether we want to get stuck in our own patterns that keep us in hell. Mm-hmm. What what tools and I'll volunteer one, I'm I'm bit I'm uh beta testing this, so it's not really fair, but um um beta testing The waking up app.

Which Sam Harris is putting together. And it's it's actually been tremendously helpful and very unlike other programs I've tested. For Producing the non ordinary states of awareness. That one might be correlate to the psychedelic experience. Yeah.

And Uh, Sam's no stranger in that arena, but he he is certainly f Uh passed on the chemical and plant infusions to focus on the the meditative component. Uh

And I found that very helpful. For becoming less reactive and more response able in terms of being able to choose The lens through which I look at the day and my interactions. What what else have you found helpful personally?

for living that billboard. You know, one of the best ones that I've found is came to me really unusually and it's the practice of ecstatic dance. And'cause a lot of the even psychedelics, you know, psychedelics, they kinda project your consciousness out of body. You know, from my very first experience, it's like my body was gone. Like I didn't have that body somatic awareness. So it was creating and patterning the separation between consciousness, mind, and body. And then When I first did the ecstatic dance practice, I had no idea. I was like, Oh my gosh, this is really uncomfortable. Cause the idea is you listen to music and then you just move, not trying you have a blindfold a lot of times or in really dark room, and you just move in expressive ways that push the boundaries of what your body is comfortable with, not physically, but comfortable and moving and just

collapse the mind, get to a state of superfluidity, a kind of flow state where it's just music and body. And I was shocked at how I responded. I mean, tons of emotions came up, tons of like clarity came up. I had visions that were coming through in that experience. And it was just massive, massive transformation for me because I felt it all the way through to my cells. You know instead of the yeah. getting the body out of the way. It was using the body as a tool to enhance my consciousness. And so it unified everything else. Instead of siling it and kind of pulling it apart, it was pushing it all together in a really powerful way.

And you know, I've started leading those practices and doing those frequently. Like I will, if I'm feeling funky, I'll just put on music, put on a hoodie. And I can be anyway. I was just in Venice doing it in my little rental house in the middle of the day. I felt feeling kinda funky from recording the book and whatever. I just start moving and I contentionally find those patterns that sends off the alarm signals like don't move your hips like that because you'll be gay if you move your hip like that. Like if you move your arms too far out, like if they extend beyond one foot. Totally gay. Like you can't do that, you know, and just force yourself to move into these other patterns that you're uncomfortable with. And let it let your body like let your body loose. Like let your body free. We bind that up. Just like we bind up our psyche. And when you unbind the body and allow it to express freely in this safe container, not saying go to the club and do it. You know, that's a lot of external pressure. Right. But in this case, you know, do it by yourself in a dark room, put on some music, put on something with a tribal beat.

and force yourself to move in those uncomfortable patterns and see what boundaries and restrictions you have for yourself. And then realize like where is that coming from? I can't allow myself to move in space. By myself in the dark? What the hell? Yeah. You know, and so that's been a really cool tool for me that I don't think a lot of people are engaging in, but it's something that ancestrally, man, everybody was dancing as part of like sun dance rituals, trance dance rituals, all these dance rituals. That was part of a major part of ceremony for people. And I think it's great to make you feel more human again and take that performance aspect. off of dancing. Like when you dance in public, it's like a mating dance. It's like a performance show. And it's all about how you look. In this case it's not doesn't matter how you look. Doesn't matter if it even approximates dancing. It's about getting your body to move and

so many times just the tears will flow and the And And emotions will come up, sometimes rage and anger, sometimes uh will all come out in that too. If I've been bottling that up. So it just allows the instrument to release and expel anything that's been holding. And typically by the end You know, you just allow that those

Snowflakes the joy to just come in and touch your skin. It's it's dope. How long How long is a session, typically, how frequently do you try to do it? Any music recommendations? Yeah. Um

You can do it shorter, but I think minimum you need you need probably twenty, thirty minutes.'Cause the first 10, 15 minutes, you're still gonna be getting into it. And like the real magic happens in the middle, and then fatigue starts to set in, depending on your fitness level, around thirty to forty minutes. So I try to take an arch from Actually when I do it I follow Stangroff's basic prenatal matrices kind of model. I don't know what that is. Okay, so that starts like you're in the womb, right? It's something very comfortable, some kind of music that's You know, smooth. It's like your everything's taken care of, the universe is good. Some very kinda happy.

Anything with kind of like a very slow positive Kind of be. You know, I have I have like obscure spiritual music that I use. Tribal music. Yeah, yeah, just tribal music. It just like feels good. It's happy. And then um then I go into then the next thing that happens is like the water breaks, it's chaos, right? So chaos around you, you know, you're imagining in this in the birth process. The water breaks, you don't know what's happening. It's like five minutes, ten minutes. Yeah, like six, seven minutes. And it's just kind of swaying. I usually stretch a lot of times. Kind of stretch. Sometimes I lie on the ground. A little bit, you a little bit joint mobility, a little bit stretching getting into it. And then, you know, if I'm doing the practice, I'll go into that more.

chaotic mode, which is a little still hard to dance to, and it forces me to do weird patterns. And I like violin, like Lindsey Sterling is a great one. And then so it's like some weird kind of staccato violin, some beats antique. Uh music is sometimes good in there. Yeah, Beats Antique is great. Beats Antique is awesome. Lindsay Sterling violin also we brought up Alice Alice Little earlier, one of her favorite types of music to have sex to. No shit. Side night. I see that. I see that. Then from there I go to like there is the fight. And that's where you actually see the birth canal and you know you have a goal, tunnel vision, you gotta get out, you gotta breathe. You're gonna fight with everything you have to breathe. And that's that warrior archetype. So for that, it's almost always tribe called red.

Like that's my go to. And that's like EDM mixed with um like tribal native American cries. And there's some great e great tracks for that. Um like uh Electric Pow Wow, like some awesome tracks for that. And then So from there, that's where you really start to express that kind of warrior archetype and allow any of those emotions to come.

And then finally at the end is the more kind of ecstatic, you know, blissful, but still a beat. So some like really upbeat E DM or some really positive uplifting music. And I usually will take a break with something that's kind of quiet and serene, like Welcome to Africa, everything is beautiful kind of vibe. And then into some more You know.

positive message like EDM and just kinda dance it out and really enjoy and express like the happiness of taking that breath. Rebirthing, becoming anew, you know. being embracing your new self. And that's the BPM four, which is the you know, the ecstas of of breath. And uh and so that's the that's the pathway for the full kind of shamanic Road. Sometimes I'll just go straight to the

Uh, straight to the tribe called Red My you know our I think you've met him too, Porongi, who came out with this ayahuasca remixed album. He's got a couple of great tribal drum tracks, which are good. Um, there's a Remix from Drum Spider and uh Mosai in there. I think it's tracks three and tracks eight on that. You can get it on Spotify.

Um but I can s share a Spotify playlist too of perfect ecstatic dance. All right. I will for everybody listening, I'll put the Spotify playlist in the show notes. And it's what strikes me listening to this'cause I I know nothing about ecstatic dance. Is that The narrative is really Important.

I mean it seems like the it's not it's not the hero's journey, but the the narrative arc. Uh The playlist is really important. Hm. Yeah, and this is just something that I came up with. I've been uh obviously, you know, my father worked with Stangroff, so I've been he's used that metaphor and it just kinda stuck with me, like, Oh yeah, these are all things we feel. Everything's cool. Oh shit, everything's not cool, everything's fucked up. And then like, all right.

Everything's fucked up and I'm gonna fight and I don't care. And there's a way out and I'm gonna fucking make it. And it's just kinda pound your chest like I got this. And then it's like through the other side, like I got this because I got all this help and I'm fucking grateful and here I am. And that's, you know, the tears really flow like at the end when you're like, Man, life is good. Now do you use this therapeutically when needed, or is it something that you do uh preemptively or on a scheduled basis to Prevent. Yeah. I w should do it more like prophylactically, like preventatively. But I I tend to do it when I feel funky. Like when I feel funky, I'm either changing my temperature drastically, going in the sauna.

Um Or Going in the cold. Or Doing something like this.

And but this is probably the best. Yeah. It really just unifies everything for me. You know, it brings You'll bring the together. You don't need anything. You just need a little bit of privacy or someone you feel comfortable. Now at this point, I'm actually comfortable doing it with other people like watching because I've talked about it and I've, you know, and it's a little external pressure, but then you just breathe into that pressure. Like the the goal here is to go where you're uncomfortable. So like when you're comfortable alone.

Then invite somebody who might be a little judgmental and see, all right, can you still dance? Can you still that'cause I guarantee you by the time you're done and you've just expressed yourself, their judgment's gonna be gone and they'll probably be dancing with you. Yeah. You know, so f breathing in it it's that you know kinda stoic training like breathe into those areas where you feel restricted, where you feel judgmental, where you feel like the eyes are on you and try to unify that all together. Yeah. It reminds me of uh quote and I'm not gonna get the attribution right.

Wait a second. Donald Neil Walsh, maybe someone I'm sure it might be Jim Rohn. Someone can correct me. But life begins at the end of your comfort zone. And this is and how do you put that into practice? It's with Activities. Like this. I mean training regimens like this. Especially for men who are tough. Like men are tough and like a tough man can get in a cold bath and a tough man. can get in a in a sauna for a long time. And it's like it's in our sweet spot. We're like, yeah, I got that. It's comfortable discomfort. It's comfortable discomfort. This is uncomfortable discomfort. Getting your arms way out there and moving those around and shaking your hips. Woo, that's uncomfortable. Yeah. That's real uncomfortable. But when you break those patterns, then there's just a whole new freedom that's available.

Uh We'll we'll go for just a a couple more minutes, but you you mentioned uh the book. So I have a copy of this at home and a number of people picked it up and also almost immediately gone to the sex chapters. Uh under understandably, but can you Describe the book. Give us give us uh a preview. W why the why the book, what is it called? How did you choose the contents?

Let's start. Let's start there. Well, really, this book is the embodiment of that idea of total human optimization, which is not just one thing. You know, I really admire the people, you know, yourself as one of those people who you'll track something down to the very nth degree and like really bring home the bones of that truth from your journey. And I've been surrounded by a lot of people who've done that. But what I felt like was missing was someone to bring it all together, like bring all the practices who've tried all of the different things. And how does that look? How does it look to go through a day, like what's the morning things you do? Okay, hydration, light, movement. Okay, then how do you bring in Wim Hof breathing and cold exposure, heat exposure? What are the nutrition principles you want? Like how do you optimize your commute to work? What are some workplace practices that you've learned? Then how when you go home, how do you relax and connect with yourself and connect with your your family and your friends. And how do you drink a glass of wine? What's too much glass? What's too much wine? What happens when you drink too much? Cause that's all part of life. Like addressing all of those things, how to have great sex and then how to

you know, transition from that into the time before bed where you're taking care of yourself and journaling and then from there the sleep practices. Sleep was a huge one for me because everybody's telling you, and there's a bunch of bullshit out there. Like everybody's saying, Oh, you need eight eight hundred eight hours of uninterrupted sleep. Like that's a fucking fantasy. Like I might as well be riding a fucking unicorn with a, you know, rainbow headband. Like that's not gonna happen for me. You know, so I read Nick Littlehale's book, Sleep, and he talks about getting thirty to thirty five sleep cycles a week. And then changing the dynamic of that utilizing naps more. I napped right before this podcast and how naps are reliably shown to be more effective than more overnight sleep or more coffee. And so just bringing in all these interesting things from books I've read, people I've met with. you know, people who've researched in different areas and try to bring this into a comprehensive day along with all my own mindset practices, like talking about mental override, telling stories about Bodie Miller and the great fighters I know and the great champions I know and just

Put this together and also Remind people like Hey, like I'm not. I haven't got it all right. You know, I tell the stories of when I used to eat, like relentlessly eat Cinnamon Pop Tarts. How unbelievably, unfathomably nutritionally bad that was. You know, it's like sugar frosting on sugar dough on sugar filling. Yeah. Like what? Triple the triple crown. What? What was that? You know, but I was there. I did that stuff. The double Western bacon cheeseburgers and

how what the new double Western bacon cheeseburger looks like with grass fed beef and raw cheese and sprouted or sourdough bread and And how you can just live this robust life. you know, not engaging with capital F fear, which is I think the virus that underpins a lot of our Malays, and try to have a real healthy, joyful expression and You know, recognize this life as I said on that billboard.

Yeah, welcome to heaven. What is the title of the book? Book's called Own the Day, Own Your Life. And the idea is You know, fuck all these long winded transformational programs where you focus on one thing for thirty days, forty days, ninety days. Let's just focus on doing one day. Awesomely.

You know, from top to bottom, schedule it out. Get all the practices in line. I have very clear prescriptions. Let's just focus on one day and see how you feel living one day like that. That's all you gotta do. Just commit to one day, not only one day, just commit to one hour at a time. Just commit to like, all right, what are the three things I gotta do when I wake up? All right. Twelve ounces of water with some sea salt and some lemon. Okay, I got that. All right. Ten minutes of sunlight. Okay, I got that. A little bit of movement. Okay, I got that. Whew, on to the next thing. You know, that's all you gotta do, step by step, relax into the process. Do it for one day.

And see what changes in your life. One in doubt, six breaths. Six breaths to quell the dragon fire. So you don't burn down villages. What uh This is the the book.

Do you have a uh do you have a site for the book? Yeah, own the daybook.com. Own the day book. Dot com And if if you were let's see, I'm trying to think of the right age to choose. So you can choose The age of your younger self.

So it could be at that twenty nine thirty, just getting started with on it, could be far before could be you of a year ago. Doesn't matter. You can pick the age, but what did what advice If you had to give advice to your younger self or someone just like you, because a lot of people like me are like, I I don't want to step on the butterfly because I'm pretty happy with with where I am. So I wouldn't give any advice. But if if you had to give some advice to either a younger version of yourself or just someone who's similarly built.

Yeah, advice to my younger self is going to be You know. Relax, man. It's gonna be all right. It's gonna fucking be all right. You know, it's it's this crazy thing where like in hindsight, we can always look backwards and say, Man, I'm grateful for all that shit. Like I'm grateful for all my failures. But with foresight, we look at everything that's coming ahead with terror. Yeah. This next thing is gonna be oh, that's gonna be the one that knocks me out. Oh, that next illness is gonna be the one that kills me, or that next failure, that's gonna be devastating. But always in hindsight we're grateful. So what if we switched

our hindsight into foresight. Oh, whatever happens, I'll just be grateful for it later anyways. And then all of a sudden we're really enjoying ourselves. You know, and I s I was terrible at that. The first few years I started on it, I was petrified that it was gonna fail. 'Cause I was so attached to its success. I'm finally doing it. I'm finally doing it. It's gonna fail. No, it's gonna fail. It's gonna fail. I'm gonna ruin it. You know, and I didn't enjoy it. And I didn't really enjoy those initial formative years like I could have. And you know, so

In almost every age, in almost every era it would be Relax, man. Trust. Like trust. Whatever happens, you'll figure out a way. You'll be better, stronger, faster, you know, wiser for it. So Be grateful for it in advance. Dig it.

Okay. And Where can people Say hi on the internet. Learn more about what you're up to. Where would you like people to check you out, your projects and so on. Yeah. I think I you know, Instagram's probably my most active, you know, I post to all the social platforms, but it's just at Aubrey Marcus on Instagram and I curate all those posts myself and it's a good

wide variety of me doing weird stuff in the gym and me posting spiritual quotes and different ideas and I actually look forward to those times where I get, you know, sideswiped by the universe because I always have some pearl I can come and I generally put that out on Instagram or podcast and and of course my podcast too, the Aubrey Marcus Podcast. That's a great place to listen to me have some cool conversations with people. Perfect. And I will link to all of that in the show notes for folks, as usual, Tim.blog forward slash podcast for all the links, resources, books, and so on that we've discussed. Aubrey.

Good to hang, man. Yeah, man. Yeah, I'll go I'll go under, over. There we go. We're still figuring out the setup here with the wires. Uh it's okay. Next time. Next time. A little how's your father. You know, there's a uh there's I had a friend who was uh grew up in a cannibal tribe. And that was the traditional yeah. That was the tradition. He's a famous author, by the way. And that was the traditional greeting. They would grab each other's genitals. And give them. And they would tell them, you know what they would tell them? No. I would eat your feces. Wow. That was the green grab someone's genitals and say eat your feces. I hear that's the new thing to do in Brooklyn. It's a hipster way to do it, guys. So feel free to take that. By the way, point zero one percent people who listen to this podcast and take everything literally, that's joke. Please don't do that, you might get shot in the face. No, that's not allowed. Uh

Aubrey, always fun to hang, man. Thanks for taking the time. Thanks, brother. And uh to everybody listening, as always Until next time. Thank you for listening. Be safe out there and don't forget six breaths. Danke sehen.

Hey guys, this is Tim again, just a few more things before you take off. Number one. This is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? And would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun for the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up. in the uh the world of the esoteric as I do, it could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a little tiny bite. of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out, just go to fourhourworkweek.com, that's fourhourworkweek.com all spelled out, and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it.

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And I'd heard about Peloton over and over again, but I ended up getting a Peloton bike in the whole system after I saw my buddy Kevin Rose, I've known him forever, some of you know, and he showed up at my gate at my house a while back and he looked fantastic. And uh I asked him, I said, dude, you look great. What the hell have you been up to? Because he's always doing a weird diet or another, but it only lasts like a week or two. So he always regresses to the mean after like 75 beers. And he said I've been doing Peloton five days a week. Now that caught my attention because Kevin does nothing. Five. days a week and you know I love you Kevin but it really piqued my curiosity ended up getting a system and it's become an integral part of my week. I love it and I really didn't expect to love it at all because I find cycling really boring usually.

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