#88 with Greg Isenberg (part 2) - Why Plugins Are Big Business

Welcome back. This is part two of our brainstorm session with Greg Eisenberg. We're gonna continue on. We talk about a bunch of different topics, it's pretty fun. Greg's a good guy. Hope you guys like it. So here we go. Part two. Let's do it. I basically Sold. A box of air.

On eBay for like Three to seven bucks. And would make money on shipping. But I would say like hey, you're buying a box of air and people would think it would funny. It was funny. And they were buying it for somebody else as a gag or what? Yeah, ex I think it was mostly uh as a gifting thing. And then I include it for it.

Uh, got uh got some PR, yeah. A little bit. Love it. All right, I'll tell you guys something, uh one interesting thing that I'm paying attention to. Greg, are you a car guy?

I like cars. Okay, there's this guy named Doug DeMoro. Do you guys know who Doug DeMoro is? He's this really nerdy Just like a horribly nerdy guy and he reviews cars and he's really funny and he's cool and and he's well loved. And he's got two or three million subscribers. On YouTube. And he'll review all types of cars and he's funny and he's like cute and endearing and

He just launched his own car auction. It's pretty amazing that he did this. Because he's a YouTuber and you think, Well, like He's probably not that good at Doing other I mean, you know, he he's

A YouTuber. I won't expect him to build a uh a content thing, but two thousand five I accidentally pulled up. It's called CarsandBids.com. He launched this site. It looks amazing. And he's already populated the site with uh hundreds of like fancy cars for sale. So the whole point is that it's cars that are Vintage or the cars that enthusiasts love. So like a two thousand thirteen B W M five.

Uh it's not like a particularly expensive car, but people who love BW's love this model of car. Uh it's amazing that this guy built this and I think that what's interesting to me is that A lot of people I don't know if he's partnered with someone. I think that I bet you that's what happened. But a lot of people partner with YouTubers, kind of like what they did with Ipsy. And uh

The Kardashian lady. Uh And This is just the perfect execution of this. It just launched two weeks ago. I think this is gonna be a huge thing. Um and these car companies are quite interesting.

These marketplaces. This is brilliant. I think if you If we take if if you marry The unbundling of Reddit.

With the partnerships of influencers. Yes. You're good. Right. There you go. You get the credibility from the influencer.

Put them in, put them on the cap table, whatever. Right. 'C look for any for any uh like a lifestyle trend that you find on Reddit, like The body weight based fitness thing that Sam's talking about.

or vegans or whatever. There's gonna be lifestyle influencers up that live that same lifestyle that have gotten famous for it on Instagram, on YouTube, whoever. And if you marry those two together, you use Reddit as a source for okay, which lifestyles are trending. Okay, this the fire movement is trending in the personal finance community. Cool, then I need to go find people who live that lifestyle. partner with them for distribution for my product. In this case

The influencer did it themselves. Uh but more and more people are sort of doing it on an equity basis instead of you know, pay for post, uh type of thing, which I think is You know, has its trade offs, has its pros and cons.

It's pretty interesting. Like another th what what I would do is I'm I'm quite fascinated with the job board space still. I don't think anyone has completely nailed the job board space. But you could definitely do it where you partner with people and you talk about cool companies. um because the pay per lead for jobs is quite l quite high. So did you guys see uh what Andrew Wilkinson, another friend of the pod, who's coming on, I think next week.

Did you see what he posted yesterday on Twitter? I think this is pretty smart. Um, he posted about this uh this Gmail idea. Sam, did you see it? I did. I did. Was a p it's a plug in for Gmail. That I don't know what it does. I forget.com, like

Hey, you could screen you know new recipients first before they show up in your inbox. And also it'll just hide all your newsletter cruft uh in one spot, like better than the core thing. I I think that was that was the the crux of his idea. Um, but it's like, hey, do you want those cool features of hey without having to like go get this new email service and like go learn this new thing? Uh because I was making an add on for Gmail. And I was like, this is why this guy is smart. That was like such a simple Beautiful idea.

Um, and I really hope he makes this and not just tweeting about it, but I know how he rolls he tweets to like publicly commit to doing something. And so I think he's actually gonna get this built because he definitely got a good response from it. But I thought it was a great idea. What do you think of that, Greg? I love it. He got two point four thousand likes. And was I right about the summary of what it is?

Yeah, so it's basically and I love the way he He actually like communicates it, which is also just seems like a magical part of how he operates, which is read it out. All right. I'm working on a fun little Gmail plug-in side project. Dot dot dot. New line. It's an email firewall.

Colon. Number one. Filters out newsletters slash noisy crap emails. So I know for you know, Greg, so I know that's beautiful beautiful, like Layman's terms. Number two.

Screens first time senders similar to Hay. And Three. delivers emails a few times a day on a set schedule. Versus

twenty four seven. In brackets like D and D. Who wants the beta test? Seven hundred and eighty two responses. Right. Yeah, this is like

You know We gotta invest in this little Gmail plugin. This is this this is like a real idea because it's a If you did these three things productivity would rise uh significantly in in email, which is something that everybody's using. And so I think A, he's the right type of guy to kind of spearhead something like this. Uh, he communicated it well and it's just a simple

It's a simple good idea. Greg, do you who else do you know that has do you know any big Gmail plugin or uh Google Chrome plugin businesses. I do.

So I invested in a company called Vid IQ. Sean, you you know Rob, right? Dude, the guy is a legend and crushing it. Uh, numbers? He's a tank. Physically he's a tank. We gotta say that.

Physically he's a tank. Um, he's like the most lovable t teddy bear ex football player of all time. Um, he's in San Francisco. He raises money from like Um, all the right people He builds a startup basically like WhoTweet, but for uh YouTubers.

Uh this is in like twenty twelve ish. Um gets You know, the top ten biggest video publishers on the platform, AOL, Yahoo, all these you know big companies. Um, realizes that

There's no although it like looks cool to work with big companies, you can actually make more money if you just work with like little to medium sized video creators. And uh doing at this time, this is like twenty fourteen maybe, like the the the equivalent of nuclear bomb, which is number one, he like gets rid of most of his team and moves to Santa Cruz, California and becomes like surfs every day.

Like four to five hours a day. Um, so number you know, now remote is obviously more of a thing, but like back then, like no, you know, and then decides to completely pivot. The business. And And because he like

fundamentally believe like hey like I'm gonna like forget this website. I'm gonna conv I'm gonna like Change this to a Chrome extension. Like imagine writing that email to your like like Mark Cuban's one of his investors and like

How much did they raise? Couple million bucks. Okay. So what happened? Um

He moves to Santa Cruz, converts it to a plug in. Um It becomes like I think the most widely used Plug in for For video creators. He charges for it.

Can't show the numbers, but I will say the business is exploding. Team sizes. Is is quite big as well. How big. I'd have to pull up the investor update, but somewhere between

Yeah, forty five people. I would I'd say somewhere in that range, forty five people full time. And like he was just grinding on it. Like this of last time I saw him was a few years ago when we were all hanging out and It wasn't like clear that this was gonna be this runaway thing, but it was clear that this guy's never gonna fucking quit. Like he was like Look, I'm doing this. And it was wasn't like I would have quit literally nine times during the process that he just kept going. And uh that's what I admire about this guy.

I admire that. I admire also that he He didn't really listen to anyone. Like, you know, I think there's this like A lot of founders like listen to podcasts like this and they're like, Oh, I'm gonna do like What they did and And it's oftentimes actually the founders that don't even listen to anyone.

And who just like take selective tidbits. Based on their life experience. Right. And like really understand, like Rob knows video. More than and video creators better than anyone in the industry.

And was just like I he's like Uh he he had a point of view. Like having a point of view matters, like He's like my point of view is that like cre video creators don't want to log into this like website

You know, and like have another website and like who cares if it's a con built on top of Google Chrome? Like who cares as long as I'm like Like swiping nine ninety nine a month. For thousands of creators. The hell cares?

Well that's that's a good one. Who else do you know? Or what else do you know? Um, n I mean in the Chrome extension space, none as intimately as Rob. I I have a friend doing something cool. My friend Stuart is building this thing called I think it's called luster dot AI. Greg, have you seen this one?

No. So I don't know how much I'll I'll have to ask him if I can even talk about this, but it's pretty cool. I think he's out publicly public with it now. But basically he had built this company called Slant. And Slant was like crushing it on SEO for like when you would search for a product, let's say you want a Find a pair of headphones. He was kind of doing the wire cutter thing, but programmatically. and commu or sorry, crowdsourced actually. So

Um you would search for headphones and you would get a result with like, this is the best affordable pick. This is the medium range pick and this is the high end I want the best thing for the best, you know, at a at a high I don't I'm not as price sensitive pick. And um And so he was doing that and Slant was doing well, but he was like

He similarly threw the whole thing away. pivoted to a Chrome extension. that works I on top of several sites. Like I use it on top of Amazon, for example. And it'll just say like

You, you know, I'm looking for a TV. It'll be like, by the way, here's the best TV worth buying and here's where you can find it at the best price across other other sites. So it's kind of honey esque. But it's really about the um the recommendation along with understanding, oh, the price has dropped over here, you should actually get it over here. It's like kayak or something where they like aggregate New York Times, wire cutter, and a whole bunch of stuff to get the reviews. Yeah, I don't use kayak, but but it's pretty good. In the in the thirty seconds that you started explaining this, I like

Added it. And I'm on Amazon and I'm actually looking for a TV and It's giving me recommendations. So That's why

Like That's why these rock,'cause how lightweight they are. Rock. These Rock. I like it'cause it's e it's super easy to install. It's

Always present. Like that's it. Now I'm an active user, right? Um you're not gonna turn. I'm not gonna turn. Um I mean

And number three, like I'm a big you know, from a thesis perspective, a big believer in curation. I think like Amazons For for you know, great examples, Amazon's great because it you can get anything, but people want curation, you know, Instagram's great, but people want curation. I there's just this demand towards curation. And it's a huge opportunity. And I can't like the Gmail plugin idea, like because everybody uses email, you only need to grab such a small fraction of the sort of total base.

Um and same thing with like shopping, Amazon, right? Like so For Luster to work, they only need such a small number of people who are regularly shopping. And I've seen his charts and it's growing really well. Um, like I I think I think that. These I I personally gravitate towards either super niche and you can own that scene.

or universal product, and you can go for the people who care about let's say quality more than the average, and more than the ninety eight percent of the other people who use that thing. Um, those are like the you you wanna kinda polarize on one end or the other and not get stuck in the middle. One of the greatest companies is Grammarly. Um Yeah.

If you're Live underneath the rock grammarly is a plug in that helps you write better. It just You people dismiss probably dismissed the business early on saying this is just word or what what's that called word check. Bell check.

Spell check, I mean. This is just spell check and it's not, it helps you have better grammar. And uh that's also it kinda just is spell check. Like it is like right, like and that's actually okay. Like it was just spell check, but for the internet. Because spell check was limited to like

Word documents. And uh, you know, text messaging But you didn't get spell check. in every email you were sending or wherever, right? Like It it didn't even have to be more

I mean it became more as it went, but like actually just spell check was fucking great. It was that was a great Thesis right there and I I totally dismissed it. Yeah, I dismissed it as well. And then the founder spoke at Hustle County and he's like, Yeah, we raised a hundred million dollars at a billion dollar valuation. And I was like, That's crazy. And he goes, Yeah, it's pretty awesome. All the money went to us'cause we we make so much. So they must make over a hundred million dollars in revenue. Yeah, I think they're like stupidly profitable.

Um Yeah, it's a fucking On the other hand, like as a consumer, Chrome extensions are a fucking crazy thing to install because they get like read permissions on every website you visit, which is just insane. Um that's like handing over The keys to every account, your bank account, and everything you ever said to anybody. So I'm very like judicious with Chrome extension installation.

Most people it appears. You know, I would say most people don't even know what a Chrome extension is, but then a lot of people install them when it seems like a huge privacy issue. And that's Chrome's fault. Chrome doesn't allow you to do it.

One password? Hate it. I usually I also I also hate it, but yeah, I use it. Explain. Explain. I wanna hear why. Yeah, same is it? It's quite it's quite complicated for me, like

There's the Chrome extension, there's the app I have on my desktop. And then at some point, like one of those like just stops like Like it'll stop auto filling. I'm like fuck and now I always have to do this like two step process or I'll get a new computer and I'm like It's like what's your seed? I'm like, man, I don't know. I did this like four years ago.

I need to remember this thing, like I I don't know, it that's just really hard. And then the other thing is like Anything that's social or with teams. You have to then sort of get to the team thing and now I get need to get everybody else to adopt. One pass. And they're usually less tech

savvy than me, and I'm not even that tech savvy. So it ends up being this like failure of like getting other people to adopt it. Like I wish there was a simpler I wish it was it it always runs into Google's Password thing. Right. Like they hit they hit each other somehow. Uh yeah, I can't stand it.

Why? Are you an investor? Sorry. No, I I'm saying One password to me is the necessary evil to a

Yeah. do stuff on the internet. Like I think that like people who don't have password managers, like Good luck. Right. You know, I think it's worth it. I think I think

You know, I have it as an extension. I was just looking at I'm my extension. I'm like looking at Loom. I'm looking at one password. Um, I actually think that there's an opportunity it, you know, to create a better one password, but it's probably a difficult problem and I hate difficult problems. Um Sometimes.

I don't even think it's a difficult problem. I think you could do the same thing and just brand it better and write better copy and make it more family friendly and be like, This is called family password, and family password helps your family be safe. And uh it's not one password which feels to me like an engineers product built for engineers. And all my engineers like at my company are like, yeah, it's great. And they can't believe I'm not using it. And I'm like, I can't believe you use this fucking thing. It's so like difficult to use and like I don't know. There's just layers of

of annoyance with it. Oh. Well you you mentioned a really You know, smart idea, which is basically like How do you take

Products and just Brand them for other audiences. Right. The Christian Mingle effect, right? It's like You know

Match dot com basically created this technology, if you can call it technology. Um And I guess it's technology. Created some technology, some s you know, basically basic social networking technology and then focused on a bunch of different verticals. But it's the same underlying the only thing that's different is marketing. So the question is What are other

opportunities where you can just take a thing and just brand it for other verticals. Do you guys wanna this is a a slight deviation, but you guys wanna see the numbers for so I I I own a Google Plugin. Yeah. You want to see the numbers for it?

Yeah. You have to ask me twice. Watch this. Okay, I'm just pulling up his skirt right now. So the uh the hustle has a plug in. Um, can you see my screen?

Yeah. Okay, thrilling for the audio listeners. Okay, guys, uh well, I'm gonna try and tell'em. Okay, so if you go to Snippets by the Hustle It's uh a plugin that's it says it has five thousand users and all it is is Um

You open your plugin, you open your your desktop and a new and a article comes up, like a new headline. And if you've every new tab. Every new tab, the the default like blank page has a news article. Yeah. And you could hit refresh up here and that will refresh it and give you a new article. It's so super simple. There's not complicated at all. I made it or we made it in two thousand and fifteen. Um

I'll check out this Check out this. We made it one time. And we sent one email about it and I never touched it ever again. Um It has check this out.

Okay, so I'm I'm going I'm on Google Analytics. I'm going to back to two thousand and fifteen. Let's see how many page views probably gotten twenty million page views. So thirty forty million page views it's gotten and it's only had a lifetime of twenty eight thousand users. But I promoted it one time, literally one time. And uh Look at the retention.

That's crazy, right? So Like this was in uh what year was this? Oh, I I changed the uh Google Analytics, but this one I believe was in s still in sixteen. Um

But like they stuck. They stick and And what's interesting is that Um Per session. So each time someone opens a new tab

On average, they click refresh four times. That's cool. So you're basically hijacking their their uh workflow of what they're trying to do. They're like oh I need to go to you know my email. Oh wait, hold on. Um, there used to be this Chrome extension called Momentum that I thought was awesome. It was really fucking simple. You would open a new tab and it would just have a beautiful photo. And it would say good afternoon, Sean, or whatever time of the day it was. And it was the lighting would kind of change depending on what time of day it was. It would say

Um You know, what's your focus for today? And I could just type it in. And then from from that moment on, like it will just always say, like, Good evening, Sean, your focus of the day is this. And uh I love that thing. And this was so viral. I just noticed every time I'd open my laptop and I'd be doing something, somebody like the person over my shoulder would always pause me and be like, What's that? What's that thing? And so like this could be paired with the Reddit thing from earlier, where you could actually pair a delivery mechanism. Which is these Chrome extensions for new tabs.

with a market segment that's really avid. That you found on on a subreddit. Uh there's a product idea here I really want to fund. Uh I tried telling my friend Jake to do to build this thing, but he wasn't super interested. Um

just because it's a l very like front end heavy and he's a back end engineer. But if there's a front end engineer, if there's an engineer who loves good design, Um This is the product I wanna I would invest in to to get built. So Uh, I don't know if you guys ever seen I think I talked about this once, but I've I don't know if you've ever seen Stripe Home.

Have you guys ever heard? Seeing this product? So Stripe basically did something that's actually several companies do, which is they build an internal Um sort of like home page for their company.

And Stripe Home is a it's unreleased product. I don't know why. Looks amazing. They've clearly put like Thousands of hours of dev cycles and design cycles into this thing. Basically, it'll show like, hey, here's the five new employees we hired, here's some company announcements, here's like, you know, some funny quote or whatever. And it's just this really good homepage. And it's it's the if you start opening a new tab, I think that's what you see if you have a stripe image laptop for your company. And so I think every company would want this. When you give your employee a laptop, I think you would want to have like a branded New tab home page.

Um, and so it would be home for whatever your company is. And Sam, I know you kinda had something like this out of uh rippling or something like that. Yeah, well that's what I was about to say. The the this is uh I agree everyone wants this, but you'd have to atta you'd have to uh attach it to someone's payroll or their HR software. I don't think you I don't think you do. I don't I don't think you do because I think what you do is you just make it where any it's like bottoms up. Any engineer at the company can uh like enable this for their company. You don't have to really hook into who are the new hires and all that good stuff. Like There's just some basic information that you can

Um, that you that you can show without hooking in and then you can get better like like Slack as you integrate more sources of data. And so Like Amazon has a thing called phone tool that does this where You can go to Phone Tool and it's hooked into the data system. So you can go look up any employee. You can see who they report to, you can see where they are in the org chart, you can see their level. And um

I know that ClearBit made this for their company. And so they have a clear bit homepage that they worked on uh you know developing. So anytime some anytime you see several companies building the same in-house system for themselves. That's something that you could export out. and can be given to any company out of the box uh as an easy to use thing. And this is something that literally you just went on design. If you go look at when Stripe Home talks about it on Twitter.

There's like hundreds and hundreds of replies on the tweet. Because people just think it's beautiful. And they don't even need the functionality, they just like the look of it, just like the momentum tab. People liked what my new tab looked like. And I think you could do the same.

for businesses and you could charge them for it. So Free idea. Just tell me if you're doing it because I want to invest. I gotta check out guys. I'll talk to you soon, Greg.

See you, Sean. Yeah. So yeah. Later. Keep on keep it going. Greg, I got two more things for you and then we can bounce. Cool.

First question for you. Do you think that there's that do you think that there's gonna be sort of a a backlash against TikTok or TikTok will just get banned for being sort of Chinese spyware. And should somebody just be, you know, like triller or somebody just be positioning themselves as the As a net waiting to catch all these TikTok users.

If uh people revolt against TikTok, which is sort of Um, you know, a Chinese company and it had there's been lots of reports. It was a big Reddit thread recently about how how much data it's pulling off of your phone and how it's basically spyware. I think I know I think Jason Calcan is

has tweeted about this too. I think he sees a lot of opportunity. Um You know, I think If we look as like The past is a best predictor of the future.

There's been so much anti Facebook sentiment. And people still use Facebook products. I think um I I don't see A massive opportunity to like wait.

For for that, to be honest. I I would agree, the only difference here is that I think it might be government. Base this time. Like India just banned TikTok and India.

And TikTok's fucking huge in India. So somebody's gonna get the benefit of that. I don't know who it's gonna be, but like I I think if the government comes out and does it, that's different than like people all Survey. There's no way they're all gonna coordinate and decide to care on a given day and move networks. That that I don't think happens.

Yeah. Um okay, two other uh random ideas I saw. There's a company called Aorist. I don't know how you say it, Aorist, but that's kind of interesting. It's called uh the the website is Let's find it. It's like Aerist Text Messaging Courses.

Um Basically, these guys are letting you build a course like teachable. Just through um text message delivery. So it's eris.co. And so you can go on. I could be like, Hey, I'm gonna teach you how to start businesses. Like, I might do this. I might just make one of these just to try this platform out. But

I could be like, Hey, I can help you Uh I don't know. Get business ideas or learn how to start a business. And I have a little editor on my side. I can create a text drip. And people can receive these uh text messages.

Um, you know, on a daily basis, like learning in little nuggets. Um, I thought it was kind of an interesting idea. Interesting concept. What do you think of this? I can't tell you how good of an idea this is. This is like This is like a no brainer to like

Set up. Ten courses. Like here you know. What I would do is start like almost like a little bit of a management company for Eris.

Like fine like You know, you're the idea guy and dating time, yeah, dating like and just and just Like okay, we're I'm gonna help you like Get this out there, you do the editing. You do the paid ads on Facebook and then it's new. So it's interesting the idea around like oh through text. It's kind of interesting. It's not like

Just another guy. Pressing a button. You get to this landing page, hey, let me sell you this course. Right. Easy. Yeah, I think this is kinda cool. I'm gonna try I'm gonna try it out. I'm I'm gonna make one.

Actually I don't know how much effort it's gonna be. If the platform's easy to use, I'm gonna try one and we'll we'll see we'll see what happens with this. Uh what's the most sort of interesting thing you've seen lately? um that's outside of the sort of Reddit uh investigation you've been doing. Either something you've thought of Or um another product that you you really like right now.

Um Top of mind, uh there's a app called Hags, H A G S. Which Is A app built on top of Snap.

Basically. Is that like the old yearbook? Like Hags thing, is that what it stands for? Yes, exactly. So it's your book signatures. You um I think there's tons of opportunity on top of Snap Kit, which is Snap's uh developer.

Uh platform. Um, and Hags is obviously taking advantage of that. You Hags, if you don't know, stands for Have a Great Summer, which is what people used to sign off with on yearbooks. Exactly. So you basically post a story like swipe up to sign my My yearbook and you can it's basically a high school social network and and the entry point is through yearbooks.

Um What I love about it. Number one built on top of Snapkit, tons of opportunity right there. um go look into that like especially like building they just announce mini apps you can create like apps within Um, Snap conversations.

I I see that. Being huge. Um So I like that. I like their design style. Like their design Like if you you know, I think

There's so many apps out there that they all just look the same. And it's just refreshing to see something new. Even that at the website that you showed with the Chrome extension, the Amazon one. That uh or the product recommendation one, like that. Like I looked at it, I'm like, Yeah. I I'm in. 'Cause it's like cool. Interesting looking. Yeah. It's interesting looking. So it's like design something that's interesting. Hank does that.

Um, and it just shot up in the charts. Um and you know It and it's been cool to see. So I really like that. Um What else have I been?

Really liking Stadium Live is pretty cool. I don't know if you've seen that. I saw when it got funded, it's like a sports fan thing, but w what's cool about it? It's like basically like

Again in this sort of like Gen Z world, it's like Basically ESPN for Gen Z. You get assigned a I'm very interested in like virtual avatars as an entry point to um socialization.

As Covid And this pandemic continues, people are gonna be looking for New ways to just Connect with one another. Um an avarge is a really good one.

Um, you get assigned an avatar. uh you join um like a game basically esports or Words. And You know, it might be like Toronto Maple Leafs versus Montreal Canadians. You see it it

Again connects with Snapchat. So You get it's your bitmoji. Um That you can like edit. And you could just see other people there. There's like

keep you entertained and you kind of feel like you're in this like virtual environment. So what I love about it is like Number one virtual environment, number two, vertical network. Number three built on top of Snap. Yeah.

I like that. Y you know, when you said avatars it reminded me of uh app I saw this weekend. Uh it's actually number one in the charts right now. I don't know if you've seen it. It's called Trivia Royale. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I love it. So this was made by

Um the guys who made quiz up. I think so. Uh guy Thor and somebody else, uh they they have this new company called Tea Time Games. And they made quiz up, which was like you know, the most popular quiz trivia app at the time. Kinda went through a rise and a big fall and then

They kinda spun out, they're like, All right, we're doing it again. And so the way this one works, you download the app, you make a little avatar, which is like Doesn't sound that great yet. But Um they use face moji, which is cool. So it's actually a pretty good High quality one. Uh but they they combine

The trivia game of like HQ or Quiz Up? with battle royale from Fortnite. So it's start every game starts with a thousand people and you go head to head against somebody. And you play you do five questions of trivia. And at the end you win or they win and then it goes to like the pool cuts in half so now there's five hundred players left, then two fifty, then one twenty five and just keeps going till there's

There's one person left standing. as the winner winner of Trivial Royale. And uh it's number one in the charts right now. It's beautiful made app. Just really well done. Um I don't know if it'll have s you know

the sort of stickiness that you would want, but Um I don't know, I like it I like it. It's sort of the same guys working on the problem from a different angle, which I I always respect. Yeah, I think I I love it. Beautiful. Games is always one of those things where You know

As you know, it kind of like is it Is it a hit or can they build it sort of as a platform? Right. These guys, I mean, they've probably learned a lot from Quiz Up. And they probably got a good shot at it. So I I'm pretty excited about it.

Game struggle because games are both a hit business and a fad business. And people can confuse those two, and it's like So hit business as in. Your your game just out the gate could be a flop or a hit, but even if it's a hit, it could then be a fad hit or it could be a long lasting League of Legends type of hit, which is super sticky. And you you really only get the value if you Get the head.

And it's not a fad. Yeah. you just do a bunch of fad hits over and over and over again as a studio doing little quick hitters. And so that's the those are the only two models that work in gaming, unfortunately. Which is tough. Like you you don't want to be on that

treadmill. Exactly. Right. Or you do if it's your first time and you got a bunch of energy and you're like, Yeah. Uh, this is great. I'm gonna do this thing that's really fun. And then, you know, for me at least, the further you go, you're like, hell no, I don't want to if it's a treadmill, I don't even want to touch it. I don't want to get near it. Um, another like I don't know if you saw it, it's me.

It's me. Is this uh Is this the dating app or which one is this? Yeah. It's kind of a it's more of like a make friends app, but it could be used for dating. I'm also avatar. Um so You download the app. You I tell you you know, they ask you like what are you into? Animals, whatever, there's some sort of like

Personality. Yeah. Personality quiz, exactly. Um they ask you to Create an avatar, you create an avatar. then you're in this world, basically. You

Chat roulette style, press a button, get connected with someone who they think you would like drive with. Um and basically as you like move your f your head Your avatar just like um the Facebook. Yeah, exactly.

Attracts you. It's it's cool because you're getting to know someone through your voice plus avatar. Right. It kinda lowers the barrier, the friction where it's lowers the barrier. It's not your real face. You're not on webcam. You don't have to care about how you look. But it it's higher fidelity than just

A still photo and text. Exactly. So what other verticals could you do that in? Right. Yeah, so many ideas, dude. Um okay, dude, this is great. I'm glad you came back on. Uh we should wrap it up, but Um let us know what you think.

If you guys love Greg, let us know and then we can have Greg on more. Hey Greg, let us know that we'll never let Greg on again. We've had a deal. Uh so uh great, good good times, man. All right, thanks, man. I appreciate it. Cool. Take care.

So yeah.

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