#174 with Andrew Wilkinson - How to Network with Billionaires, Andrew and Sam's Recent Investments, & A Better Investor Than Buffett

Hey everyone we have a special episode with Andrew Wilkinson. Um, I'm gonna tell you about him in a second. I think you're gonna like this episode, but I have a huge favor. So look, Sean and I, we spent a ton of time preparing for this podcast. Uh like hours, tens of hours a week, uh twenty, thirty hours a week. preparing just for these two episodes. And I know it sounds like we're

kinda shooting the shit. And in a way we are, but we actually work so hard at it. And I need a favor from you. I'm begging you, please. Leave us a review in iTunes. So if you're listening to this on Spotify, just click click your podcast app or whatever's called an Android and go to the iTunes and just leave us a review. Click five stars and then just click like

I really like it, or leave one star and be like, Hey Sam, you suck. Whatever. But we need reviews. And the reason why we need reviews is we go higher up in the charts. And the higher up in the charts we go, the more listeners we get. And the more listeners we get, the more ad revenue or hub spot money we can make, which we can then put back into the show and do more stuff. If you notice We've hired a team to create videos. We've done that because we've gett we've been getting more views and we're able to invest more into this podcast. Um, and we want to do more stuff. We actually want to go on a live tour this summer and we want to come to you. We'll do it for free. Um But we need to Get more listeners. And the easiest way to do that is just to leave a review. I know you hear a lot of potcasts saying do this, and most of you are just like,

Kinda skip through this part, but For real. Do it. In fact. If you do do it. And you send me an email, Sam at the hustle dot co or Uh, I prefer you do this, you tweet at me, thus Sam Parr, and take a screenshot.

Of your Uh review. Um, and make sure I see it and I'm gonna call all of you out. Everyone who leaves a review, I'm gonna call you out. Um, I'll I'll either do it on Twitter or I'll do this on the podcast, but I'm gonna recognize you for doing it. So please make that happen. Uh I have a feeling that this podcast is gonna get listened by a lot of people. And so um Get that in sooner rather than later so I don't miss it. But go ahead and do that.

Uh and It'll be a really big deal for us. So leave a review, please. Now let's talk about today's episode. So today we have Andrew Wilkinson. Andrew Wilkinson is uh a good friend of ours. He's really interesting because he does everything. So basically Andrew started with this a design agency called Metal Lab. He grew Metalab to like fifty million dollars in revenue out of based out of Canada, and it was very profitable. Something like twenty, thirty million dollars of profit on like fifty million dollars in sales, something like that. And using that profit, he went and bought a variety of companies. And at this point they own like twenty different companies uh ranging from a bakery up to different types of uh software. So he just bought this company called Girl Boss. He uh uh bought a few others and on this podcast we're gonna talk about what companies he's buying and why he's buying them. He's also done a few interesting things like

You ever read about how someone bought a lunch with with Warren Buffett. Uh well, he did that with a bunch of different investors, and that's really fascinating. So give the episode a listen. Uh look up Andrew Wilkinson and uh he's on Twitter. He's very active. If you tweet at him, he'll reply. If you tweet at me, the Sam Par, uh I'll reply as well. Uh, Sean did not make this episode because Sean has a four week year old baby. So that's why we're doing some of these extra episodes without him. But Please leave us a review. Let me know what you think.

Ibrahim, how did you rate this episode? I forget what you you gave it. I think this was definitely in the Ace. We we we covered a lot of ground, a bunch of stuff. Andrew brought the heat as always, a bunch of opportunities. I think everyone's gonna like it. A's today's episode is an A. Uh, that's good. I'll take it. Wha what was your favorite part? Uh he had a ton of stuff on how he grows his network. Andrew's super smart. He has like a bunch of billionaire friends and kind of lays out his c his strategy of meeting all these people.

I think that's app applicable to just about anybody listening. All right. Well, everyone, give it a listen. Please, please, please. Give us review. I'm telling ya. I'll owe you big time. And it actually makes a huge difference. And me and Sean, we read every review and we actually talk about all of them. We'll say, Is this person right? Should we keep doing this?

Or this guy uh teased us for doing X, Y, and Z. Should we actually stop doing that? What should we do? So we read all of them, leave us review. Uh listen up. See ya. I feel like I can rule the world, I know I can be what I want to I put my all in it like my day's off. On a roadless travel, never looking back. Alright, what's going on?

Not too much, man. Beautiful day here in Victoria. What about you? Uh Nothing. We uh I've been spending all my time on this podcast trying to make it huge. We've got some really cool stuff planned and I'm excited to see it work out. Yeah, I feel like you guys are really uh ramping up. There's a new episode in my inbox like every single day.

Well, what's cr yes, it it's going really well. And we did the math and we're like if it grows, it if it if the last sixteen months repeats itself. Um it'll be will be at a million downloads a month by like uh Decemberish. Uh which is fine, which is great. But

Figuring out how to like hack this has been really hard. And so we're just trying to figure out how to make it huge. Well what's HubSpot? What's their goal? Their goal so the Hubspot has a bunch of cool stuff uh that they're launching. Basically like a bunch a bunch of content initiatives, including podcasts, and their goal is to reach

Uh a certain number. Like I I don't remember the exact number, but they're they they say like how do we get to a hundred million monthly Uh Re uh newsletter reads. Podcast listens, things like that. So a hundred million monthly audience hubmarks. And they've just done the math on, you know, if five percent of those people convert into HubSpot customers, then it makes it pays back the acquisition or something.

Wha no, that's across that hundred million that hundred million is across all their content. Um It's not just the hustle and the hustle Right now the hustle we have close to two million monthly or two million subscribers, of which like fifty, sixty percent open rate. So that's adds to the uh hundred million. Um, and so this podcast accounts for right now four hundred, five hundred thousand. Eventually it'll be a million a month. And then the if they have other podcasts, that's another, let's say ten million. So then we're at fifty million, and then where's the other fifty million gonna come from? And so

Uh that's kinda how they're doing the math. Uh. But how's it changed for you going from like Staring at your PL every month, looking at the bank account, freaking out about invoices, not getting paid, to suddenly going, Oh, I don't have to do that. I just have to focus on growing the audience. Yeah, so it's pretty great. Like a lot of people

HubSpot never said this, but a lot of people were like Man, you're only gonna work there for like a few months or a yeah and then you're gonna wanna bail. And frankly, I'm having a great time. Um, like I think I'm meant to start a company again. And I this is my first job I've ever had, but it's been really great. And I can see myself doing this for a little while. Uh because it's awesome. Like

And like let's like talk about the obvious, which is like I made money for myself, so like I can relax a little bit. I uh it's not as hard. Like I'm working a long long hours, but it's not as hard because if I fail or screw up Like I'm not gonna like cost people their jobs. Do you know what I mean? Like if I make it wrong decision I I'm not necessarily gonna lose a lot a significant amount of money or someone's gonna have to be fired because I can't make payroll. So that the lack of stress is so good. Have you ever Have you noticed have you noticed like your cortisol levels are dropping and you're just more chill. Interesting. Dude, I've never I've never felt that

I've never felt that because I've always had There's always been so many different businesses that anytime we've sold one, I've been neglecting another one for a year, and then that blows up and I get all stressed out. So it's been I've been thinking about this a lot, but I've been going from stress to stress. Uh Yeah, and like

seven or eight years probably since we sold our our one of our first companies. And uh I've been thinking lately, like I'm going like holy crap, I gotta de stress. And that sounds really nice to not have to Think about any of that stuff. Well, the way I described it. So when I describe when I like Um moved out to San Francisco and like put it by stake in the ground like, all right, I'm gonna figure this out. I felt like I had been living with poor eyesight and I finally put glasses on and I'm like, oh, this is the world. Like

I can do anything. I could do this. I could finally see. Now after selling, it's like a different put my glasses on and realize I had poor eyesight, where I'm like to my wife now, I'm like, Oh my gosh, is this how you feel all the time? Like you don't have to worry about X, Y, and Z. What a crazy feeling. This is actually quite nice. Now I want to put that stress level back on again eventually, but it's nice having that break. Um, and what I think about with you is I'm envious of what you have in some regards, right? I think we're always envious of of other people, especially our friends. I'm envious that you've built this huge, awesome empire that you own nearly all of it, that you have virtually all the control. That's very most people envy you because of that. But I also think to myself Wow, Andrew also hasn't chilled probably for a minute.

And that's definitely the downsides. And so like in order to be the best, you definitely got to wear that which you are, you have to worry uh carry that worry backpack a a fair bit. Oh yeah. It's crazy. And it's it's so funny, like the numbers just get bigger, right? So it's like I I you know, I w I remember in like twenty twelve one time we like did payroll and we didn't have enough money. And like my business partner literally lent me money out of his personal account to close payroll, right? So we've been at that level of stress. And you know, I never feel that now, you know, we have enough money to go for years or whatever. It's a very different thing. But there's still that feeling of like, Oh fuck, there's like six hundred, seven hundred people relying on me. to pay for their meal ticket every single month. Um, and there's just constantly people problems, right? So yeah, I've got like, you know, a lot of control and buck stops with me and you know, a lot of the things that people might envy, but at the same time, like we've got

thirty plus companies and there's always a problem to think about or whatever. And I'm realizing I'm just constantly I think I'm addicted to cortisol and stress. And this year has been extra difficult because what I used to do is I'd work at a cafe, I'd like wake up like pounding stress, cortisol, I'd be all pumped up. I'd do like three or four hours of focused work, get all the stuff I need to get done. But then I'd go work at a cafe and my buddies would show up and we'd start shooting the shit and go for a walk. And play tennis and just just kind of F off. And now with COVID, it's like I'm in a house from eight thirty in the morning until five.

And then I go see my kids. And It's crazy that um just the importance of like distraction. You don't get that. Like right now working remotely in a house, you just don't get those moments, uh, the automatic breaks and stuff. And so I'm realizing like, man, if I'm left to my own devices, I'll I'll just stress to the nth degree and just keep working. Do you think uh this was the last question I asked about this because I think I always try to be self aware where it's like oh a bunch of dudes complaining about shit that maybe like is it

Right. Yeah, it well my reply to that is It is a great problem. It's But great problems are still problems. First world problems are still problems, but they are first world problems. But um Do you think that it will ever get not sh or ever not be stressful? Like you know, we you talked about Dan Gilbert last time, this uh billionaire guy who's got all this stuff going on. You said that he was pretty calm and and present.

Do you think that's the same thing? Even a guy like him who Uh kind of has it all, or I mean uh people think you and I have it all, I imagine, but as a guy like him who we think has it all, do you think that they still Stress. I think it's in it's interesting. I think Dan's probably really stressed out, or at least was he has so many different things that he's responsible for, where if he doesn't intervene, it messes up. There's different versions of really successful people, though. Think about it. Like is someone who runs a private equity firm

where they have this big pool of capital they oversee. And they just buy businesses and they oversee them or whatever, or or someone who like a hedge fund manager who buys stocks, right? You can have 20 employees, you invest in Apple and all these companies. And at the end of the day, Apple does well or it doesn't, and you don't influence that, right? I think the number of things you influence is what causes the stress. And I think in our business, we we go. Oh man, if I'm not scanning the sky for, you know, i issues in all of our businesses, we could lose something or mess up and Um

I don't know, it's a it's a double edged sword because Think about like Think about like your parents or old people and like they get upset about like oh the neighbor moved in who you know, that does doesn't want to water their lawn or someone's dog keeps pooping on their front step or whatever it is. That stresses them out as much as you and I get stressed out about business stuff. So I think everyone's programmed to be stressed, and I think it's more about.

What tools do you have to distract yourself from the stress? Um, and if you got a lot of those, then you're happy. Okay. So let's we're gonna here's the tool that we're gonna de stress you. Perfect segue. So for the first topic today, we're going to talk about things that both you and I have invested in. Most of them are going to be things that you've invested in. And We're gonna spend

We have one, two, three, four, five, six. Okay, we're gonna spend about three to five minutes, depending on how interesting they are, where each other whoever listed it on here will say what it is and why it's interesting. And then I wanna comment and tell you what I would do if I was you and you and vice versa. Um But I want to hear your intel Or your your your behind the scenes look as to why you are investing in this and why it might not work and why it will work. Like why it could work. And so uh does that sound good? Yeah, sounds great. All right. The first one, you bought this company who we we've had Sophia Amarosa on the podcast. You bought her old company called Girlboss. Is it just girlboss.com? Is that the URL? Girlboss.com, yeah.

And what is it? So Grow Boss is like a uh Like a media company for women. Um, so Sophia started it about six years ago and built up this massive following, started doing amazing events, podcasts, uh built like a social network. And she

I met her um when she was first starting it and she'd um done Nasty Gal, which was like this big Flame O where she built a really amazing business. We was doing thirty million dollars a year, doing online uh e-commerce, selling uh used clothes, doing really, really well, right? She didn't need the money and she ended up raising from venture to take a little bit of money off the table. And then the venture investors got in and were like, Hey, you got to twenty X this, go take risks, start retail stores. She starts the retail stores and it all blows up. a really horrible story where she had a good thing and then she risked it and then it blew up.

And so she was fresh off of that and she said, look, I'm starting this company, Girl Boss. I think I want to bootstrap it. And I and you know, I might raise a little tiny round, but I'm not gonna raise venture again. And so we ended up investing um and following along. And she ended up raising venture again. I I don't know what it was specifically. I think she saw like a bigger opportunity and decided to do it. And the terms were great. Um

But so she raised venture. And uh decided to build like, you know all this stuff like a social network for women, building an app, all these really expensive RD projects. Um, and it got to a point where Um, it just wasn't working and it wasn't venture scale. And so she sold it to these guys, attention capital uh in New York.

And they're uh Joe and uh Nick, right? I think they're they're LA guys. Yeah, and uh Yeah, they they basically um They they Focused on the event business, they had all these massive contracts that were booked, and then COVID hit.

And they just got themselves into a pickle where they just couldn't the numbers didn't make sense. They're burning too much money. They lost all these contracts. And so They nudged me and said, Hey, would you be interested in buying this? And I said, look, I I I will buy it only if I can just buy the assets. Cause we looked at and we said, Hey, they've got two million social followers, they've got a huge newsletter, all the piece they've got a massive podcast feed, all the pieces are there. But the cost structure was venture, right? So like they had, you know, a big PL, they had a ton of employees. And we looked at it, we went, okay, what if this company had five employees? Could you run it with five employees and Is that how many you have now?

Uh now now I think there's maybe seven or eight or something like that. But we started with basically, you know, one person doing newsletter, one person doing podcast, one person doing social. And then we just said as we sell more ads, we'll hire more people. And we ran it like a bootstrap business. And so that's what we've been doing. Um, and I think, you know, Sophia uh was pretty nervous when we bought it, right? She's like, Don't embarrass me, uh, you know, make sure you hire the right people. And so we worked Uh uh you know, in close partnership with her and she's actually been really stoked about what we've been doing. So that's been awesome. Yeah. I just uh you just you just announced a new CEO, I think you hired a CEO. Totally. Um

So okay, so can you talk about any of the like the size? So you've two million subscrib uh two million social followers. How many email subscribers? Uh about two hundred and fifty thousand. So I can't share the the acquisition Price.

But i it was it was uh you know It was let's say let's say I I felt it was a value investment. based on the social followers, but if you looked at it on a PL basis, it was like holy crap, this is a mess, right? Because it had been losing a lot of money. Okay. What would you be happy with? This company in two years.

Um, how much. Yeah, what's cool about it is when we when we buy a business, uh, we're generally going, you know, if we're wrong about all the big opportunities and we're only right about just base hits. So like, hey, you know, we've got 250,000 newsletter subscribers, can we sell forty or fifty thousand dollars a month of ads on that. If we do that. We've got a good little business.

And then if we do that on the podcast, we've got a really good little business. And then if we do that on social, again, it's bigger and bigger and bigger. Uh It doesn't need to be huge based on the price we paid, it could do three million bucks a year in revenue and be an amazing business and give us a good return. I think it's a 20 or 30 or 50 million dollar a year business. Once we kind of do the events, we're we've been thinking about you know all sorts of opportunities within the business. Um

But uh what I like about it is, you know, if we don't do well If we don't grow it into a huge company we'll still we'll still do just fine. So I agree with that assessment. I actually think that So long as you're mildly competent. Which you are. Uh

The worst case scenario is s is two million dollars a year, I would say. A hundred and sixty thousand dollars a month. Yeah based off of a quarter of a million email subscribers, two million um social followers. Now It won't wouldn't exactly be exciting or it wouldn't be the most fun thing, and that would be uh uh like If that was the worst case scenario, it'd be like man, we really miss missed the mark on this. But You're not gonna go out of business and you're probably not gonna lose, which is pretty good. So I I actually agree with that.

uh assessment. I think that If in ten years If you were at thirty million dollars a year in revenue, I wouldn't be surprised. It would probably be It would probably be fifteen, uh tw It probably be twenty million dollars a year in advertising.

And ten million dollars a year. And Uh user revenue. So ticket sales more likely than not. I don't know if you would be able to get subscriptions to this. Maybe I actually do think that there's I know a few uh people who have uh female focused communities and they do like three million dollars a year in revenue. Oh yeah. Um

I'm seeing like much smaller uh communities doing way higher revenue. Like we've looked at a lot of stuff for MA, like for even for Girl Boss. And uh there's there's definitely some people doing really, really well with small communities. So The way I'm kind of feeling right now, like everything I look at Um, and we're I don't know if people how familiar they are with our structure, but we mostly buy majority control of businesses and usually we're buying them from founders. And then off the side of our desk, we also do a little bit of venture investing, maybe like two or three million dollars a year. We've got an angels rolling fund for uh for another, I think 11 million or something like that. Um, so my world is generally buying these. Wait, hold on. You have an eleven million dollar rolling fund?

Yeah. That's crazy, right? Yeah, we ra it's it was insane. We we literally were like we tweeted it out as like an afterthought and we raised it in like four hours. It was totally insane. Eleven million. Yeah. I think we're one of the biggest ones.

I think so. I think that um You might be like the second or third biggest. I think I heard of a sixteen million dollar one, but you might you guys it might be number two. There's no amount. So if s someone wants to do five million bucks, they can do that. Um people who are looking at more. Uh we've got uh Angelist doing it. They administer everything and then who's the hiding. Well, I I decide, right? So basically

I already make probably one one or two venture investments a month. And it's usually like, you know, a friend of mine emails me and says, Hey, I'm starting a company or one of our agencies is working with a company that we think is cool or something, and I just go, Okay, well I'll put in a hundred grand and now instead of putting in a hundred grand, I put in five hundred or a million via the rolling fund and I just invest my personal money into the rolling fund. Um So anyway, so

So we do venture investing. I look at that as like a hobby. It's kind of like roulette, right? It's just betting on friends, having fun, looking at companies. Um What I'm seeing. in venture is absolutely insane. So I've seen companies of um with with A founder who's a first time founder.

With an idea. And they're raising it a forty million dollar prevaluation, right? Like just totally crazy stuff. And in the private market, you know, there's all this crazy, you just endless money and low interest rates and stuff. And almost everything we look at is just bit up like crazy, like to the point where we look at it and we go, I don't see any world, even if everything goes right, where we can make our money back at this price. And so for most of this year, we've basically just been sitting on our hands. And waiting.

Um, and try to find hidden value. And what I what the way I think about hidden value is like kinda like Girl Boss, where you look at the PL And it looks like uh, you know, oh well, this is losing a lot of money. I don't know how to value this. But you look at it and go under our ownership.

What can this do? And you make a new PL in your head where you're like, oh, I actually need five people. My only costs are AW AWS and MailChimp and stuff. And so we've been doing a bunch of that. Um And then really uh we've just been kind of sitting and waiting and getting creative, right? And I I'll talk about this guy, Henry Singleton, later. Um, but we really are just trying to

Um, you know, issue stock when it's highly valued and buy stuff back when it's cheap. And so we've been looking across our portfolio and just going like how can we do MA with our stock, or how can we buy cheap businesses and bolt them in that people don't understand? But it's it's crazy out there right now. What okay, but To play devil's advocate.

And this is something that I'm playing with in my head of like what what do I stand for? What's gonna be my uh principles for investing, and and I haven't settled on what those are yet, although I have some guiding principles. They're not solidified entirely. And a good friend of mine And Drees and Horowitz said Don't worry too much about valuation because Whatever's hot will continue to be hot. And you're gonna

Like a lot of times the valuations Looking back, well be like, Oh, that was cheap, but then in the middle of it, it's always appears to be expensive. But the real winners, it it won't matter that much. Of course, his lens to to looking at that is quite narrow, albeit effective, but narrow. But what's your take on that? But I think

I'm assuming Andrew Chen, because I know you're friends with him. Um I think they're amazing investors. The some of the best in venture. I think the hard part is um You know, if you'd taken that same approach in nineteen ninety nine. It'd be really hard to be a winner, right? Because you see the same kind of stuff happening where uh historically I think we're at an all-time high in terms of just like pre-money valuations. But back then, I mean, there were companies that were pre-revenue selling for billions of dollars and all the same crazy stuff. And the problem is that

Within that haystack, there's an Amazon. Right. or an eBay or a Google, but you just don't know which one they are. And so I think if you were to go out and index and buy a hundred random startups in nineteen ninety nine, You'd probably lose money. And I'd argue you'd probably lose money today if you went out and you indexed. And I to me, the only way I'll bet on a someone um at a high valuation is if I know that they're a proven operator. Like if they're a founder who's done really well historically and I've a lot of trust and think they're amazingly smart, I don't worry too much about valuation.

Um, but dude, some of the stuff I'm seeing is just wacky. Just crazy, crazy stuff. Is there one thing that you're seeing that Interests you a ton that you've had the chance to invest in or

uh you passed on, but you still think it's quite amazing. So you you're you're saying that like you've seen I and I have too, like ideas uh from people who don't know what they're doing or at least you don't know if they know what they're doing and they're these huge valuations. Is there anything that you've seen lately where you're like, Oh my gosh, this thing Potentially could be The coolest thing I've ever seen. Well I think

If there's one thing I've learned over the last ten years, it's when you see something and you get lit up about it. ignore the valuation and just invest. Right. Like it's like there's lots of companies that I was super excited about, but I was like, oh, I'm a value investor. I'm not going to, you know, do this on these terms. And I should have. I mean, I've got I've I've got the ultimate like anti portfolio of, you know, Coinbase and uh Slack and you know all sorts of other stuff. I mean, running an agency in Silicon Valley for ten years, like you just get you see all sorts of stuff, right? They turns out to be um Big. Um

I I think the most thing the thing I'm most excited about and nervous about at the same time right now is like crypto stuff. And there's a company I saw recently that I I didn't get the opportunity to invest in, but I think is genius. So the crazy thing about crypto is Like At least theoretically. Um, historically if you are a member of

A website like Reddit, let's say, and you're an early user. Let's say you're the first hundred users of Reddit and you built it into something, you actually derive no value, right? You don't get paid. You're like a Wikipedia Wikipedia contributor, and then Reddit makes billions of dollars. I know where you're going with this one. For the first time ever. I could start up Andrew Reddit and I could say, Hey, uh all the people who move over from Reddit, uh, based on the number of followers you have or whatever your rankings are, I'm gonna issue coin in Andrew Reddit. And as everyone moves over and posts more, you become more valuable, kind of like the BitCloud thing, right? Now BitCloud's kind of whatever BS, but I think for the first time, social networks and network effects are actually vulnerable to this. And one of the one of the businesses I saw that I thought was fascinating was a company called Brain Trust. And what they've done is they've basically created a really nice upwork. So it's like a you go to the website, it looks like a really well designed version of Upwork.

Is this Gabe? Yes. I know Gabe. I uh I know him too. He called me uh a year ago when he was about to launch this and he told me all about it'cause he was hiring a content person. Um I have not checked in on this. Okay. So ahead. So I don't know what he was doing a year ago, but basically you go to this website and it looks like um, you know Up upwork. It's like hey, hire contractors for design and development, whatever you need. But then it says no fees.

And I was like, Well, how the hell do they have no fees? That's crazy because Upwork charges like five or ten percent of all the projects. And what they do. very quietly as they have a coin. And so they have a brain trust coin. And they have people who um their job is to basically be a project manager on there. Those people get paid in the coin.

All the transactions occur in the coin. So as you, it's almost like if Uber had issued a coin to all their early drivers, and then as they participate in the network, they get rich. And so they don't go to Lyft because they're already rich in Uber coin, right? And so it creates this lock-in and it aligns incentives. And before it was always this thing where it's like labor versus capital. And this is the first time it's all aligned. It's all um you know, very theoretical and early. And I don't know whether it's a good time to invest right now, but it's obviously the future to me. Interesting. And so Let's

Talk about this. So for the listeners, the guy who started this, his name is uh Gabe. What's his last name? Asta Uh Osteo Cota. Uh two he's got two last names, him and his wife have they've like hyphenated it, so I forget his full name. Anyway, he started a company called Luna Ostaseki Siskiy, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Um, he started this thing called Cow

I forget what it was called. Cal Tech or no not Cal uh Something um where it was like a lead gen site for Like roofers and uh home services. And it grew to like thirty million dollars a year in revenue. Um, I don't know how, but in some way he cashed out. Maybe his partners bought him out or something like that. And He started this thing, uh Brain Trust, about eighteen months ago, I think.

And so I actually Well would email him after this and be like Hey. What's going on? Uh

You're raising because this is really cool. Um, I think I agree with you, this is really cool and he's a very proven entrepreneur. Now, the thing I get nervous about When it comes to people like him. Um is that Will they be hungry enough to make it big?

I get nervous about that. Do you? I don't really think too much about that because I think we all know like Know you you're gonna have this exit and you won't be hungry in the same way where you're like you'll c claw someone's eyes out to you know, to be successful. You've already become successful, but I think like over time it's just like you start going like okay, I proved it once, now I have to do it again at double the size. And it's the same thing that everyone says where it's like What's the perfect amount of money? It's like two or three times whatever you currently have. So if you exited for thirty this time, you got to exit for ninety next time. I I it's just I that's just the way people seem to work. God, that's great. Um, all right, let's talk about another one.

Um Let's do all right. I'll tell you this one that I just did the other day. Um And this one I actually think has more reasons why it will fail than why it will not fail, why it will win.

It's called Tails. Um let me find the URL. Uh, I don't even know. I don't remember Tailsriders dot com. So I just I'm gonna uh text it to you. So on the surface, the this has a lot of things that I don't like. Uh it could it it's kinda like an iPhone game type of thing. Um it's

Pretty Hit driven. But I'm interested for in this for a couple of reasons. The first, basically what it is, is um it's this technology where authors can upload their books that they've already written. And they've made it so they can turn a pre written book

into an interactive story, which is kind of interesting. Um but I invested it for a couple reasons. One, I've been crazy fascinated with how authors can make more money. Because I think books traditionally are a horrible way to make money off of someone who spends like

You know. two years of their life writing something like it's pretty shitty. Like the different like our friend Jack Butcher probably makes more money off his one course, which impact probably 10,000 people, than a book that is read by a million people, which is pretty crazy. What do you think? I think this is fascinating though, because it like I'm writing a book right now. Um I don't know if I'm even going to release it. I might just turn it into a bunch of Twitter Twitter tweet storms or blog posts or something or make a podcast out of it. Or that's what's interesting too is like when you have all that content, you can take it and put it across all the different channels, right? Like build at once. put it everywhere and monetize it across all those different places.

Well, there is legitimacy. There's a legitimacy around being able to hand someone a book and say, This is my story as I want, you know, to dis to for you to understand it. And you know, it's like Phil Knight is like the man because of Shoe Dog, right? I agree. So that that like I don't think a book is gonna go away, but I think that what you should do is write a book as like a loss leader and then do all this other stuff of which tales is one of those things. And the reason why this this has fascinated me is because I think that romance novels and um anime and like entertainment like that. for amongst young po folks and particularly women, it's like one of the biggest genres there is. I mean, it's just a rabid fan base. People love this stuff. I invested in this thing because I think an author can charge like thirty dollars for an interactive book and people will read it a lot and uh and consume it a ton. And there's a company in China. I'm always fascinated with how the Chinese

uh monetiz content. There's a company in China called Well, the American translation is just called China Literature. It's a eighty billion dollar publicly traded company that does something just like this in China. And I'm fascinated with how authors can make more money. I'm fascinated with bringing uh the Chinese um habits to America. Also the founder of this company had invested like eight hundred thousand dollars or something like that of his own money into the business. And I was like, Oh, that's cool. Like you're you're you're betting it. I'm interested. So that's a recent one I did. But there's so many reasons why this can fail. Um

It could be incredibly expensive to um acquire users. I don't know if the users are gonna even stay for that long. And uh It could be a total hitch driven business. So this actually has a lot of reasons why it could fail and has a couple of reasons why it could work. How The I think the hard part about this though is that you've got to do all this custom work on each

book. Like I get they've built the framework, but you've probably got to have someone illustrate like a comic almost for every single thing. So that's the technology that they've built is like they make it really easy for yourself, like your the author to uh make it interactive. So that's like the whole point. That's like the technology behind it. But uh we'll see if they can pull it off. It it's been around for twel months, so it it's a working MVP. But uh TBD to see if this is gonna pull uh they're gonna pull it off. But that's one thing I've just invested in. Um all right, your turn. What do you got? What do you want to go over? Which one?

So um we just we just uh we keep investing in this business and it's uh a lot of people don't understand it. It's called Medimap and Medimap. So so up in Canada. Yeah, M E D I M A P. So up in Canada, uh we have socialized healthcare. So the government pays for it. And if you want to get Um Uh care.

You can't just call any doctor and get in, right? So there's this whole system. If you want to see a dermatologist, you have to go. go to a you know a general practitioner, get a referral, it takes six months. In in many ways, it's better because anyone who wants it gets healthcare, but the quality of care is probably lower overall. And what it's resulted in is a system where Uh, a lot of people don't have doctors and you have to go to a walking clinic. And there's all these walk in clinics um, you know, all over Canada. And

Um this This guy came to me like five years ago, um, because I had invested in a few other healthcare businesses. And he goes, Hey, um, I'm gonna build this business called Medimap. And basically you're gonna be able to go to the website and you're gonna see the wait times at every single clinic in Canada. And I was like, Well Why would the who's gonna fill out the times, right? Like how are you gonna and he goes, Well, I'm gonna convince the clinic owners that they wanna be on this site and they should punch in, you know, the wait times every hour. And I was like, this seems insane, like F off. I'm not gonna invest, right? Comes back six months later and he goes, Hey, I've got uh twenty five percent of all clinics in Canada using this.

And I'm like, Well, like how did you do that? And it turns out that Every single clinic Every day. Get Ten phone calls a minute.

And all the phone calls are is hey, what's the wait time? Right. Because everyone's trying to go where the lowest wait time is. And so there's this huge incentive. All the clinic owners went, Oh my God, I don't have to have two uh medical office assistants. I can just have one and that that one can just punch in the wait time. So Now this business has 86% of all medical walk-in clinics in Canada, and every single one has software installed, wait time software installed on their computers. So we've been investing in this business. It's been uh you know losing money and we've been building out this network, right? And our thinking is Once we have the network, there's a lot of really interesting things we can do with the network. And we've started expanding that. So this is it started as a venture investment, and then we ended up buying uh, we now have a like a control position in it. We're about to buy even more of it. Um and there's a lot of models globally for this, like Zoc Doc and other folks. And so Now that we've got the network established, we have no competitors, even if someone raised a hundred million bucks, I don't know how you go out and convince every clinic walking walking clinic owner in Canada to switch to your software over ours.

And so We're starting to now layer in physiotherapy, naturopaths, massage, all sorts of other services. And then we're also integrating into the booking engines for all these. And these people can pay to promote their clinic and get more bookings and stuff like that. So I'm super excited about it. And it's one of those businesses you might look at and go, you know, I don't get it. Where's the value? Um, but it's it's really, really cool and we're super excited about it. Well, I'm I'm on the site and I I typed in my location. I'm like, Oh wait, they're just con uh Uh in Canada. Type in like Vancouver or something. I did. I I just typed in Vancouver. Okay. So Uh so the way it works is I typed in Vancouver, it says Crossroads Walking Clinic, closes at seven PM

As of right now, they've got a thirty minute wait time. I can click and I can join wait list. Um and then I t I select a uh what I'm gonna tell the doctor and how I wanna do the visit, yada, yada, yada. So how do they make money? Does the doctor pay per leave? No, the doctor is totally free to use. Um, and the doctor can I believe the doctor can like make a nicer profile so they can upload their logo and stuff, but we don't make any money off of that, right? So the idea is over time we make a stronger and stronger network.

And we can start to get directly like that one, you can click to join the wait list immediately. Um And uh do that. That's all free. Um what we make money on is when you go and you say, Oh, I want a chiropractor. Or I need to find a pharmacy and send in a prescription or something, we can do referral agreements with all those different clinics or pharmacies, but right as of right now, we haven't monetized it. Like this is like how many people work there?

Uh, like five or six, it's very small. Oh, it's small. And it looks like you got like according to Similar Web, you guys are getting like a hundred ish fifty to a hundred ish thousand And the traffic is mostly search and direct, which is like the greatest thing ever. I mean, that's exactly what you'd want. Um so I I imagine it's a unique database, right? Like there's nowhere else you can go in Canada to get weight less times.

And I can't I so you're you're probably spending zero dollars on advertising, is that right? Yeah, we we've experimented a little bit with it, but we we spend very little at this point. So it's it's going back to like Understanding a moat. And going like, oh, this is like no one can compete with this. We've spent the last five years losing money and building the network. And now it's like there's no way to disrupt this. And think of all the different things you can build in this. I always like to um say, you know, we like to buy airport businesses, and an airport is You know, there's one there's one airport in a city.

If you want to go somewhere and fly, you've got to go and sit in the lobby for an hour. And when you're sitting in the lobby, I'm going to try and sell you a bunch of stuff. So I've got all the stalls and I can put in a massage place and I can put it in a bookstore, somewhere to sell sandwiches, whatever. And this is an airport business, and right now all the stalls are empty. And we're gonna start monetizing it and filling in all the stalls. That's a great analogy or a great story. Where did you learn that one? Cause before you had New Zealand businesses, which I like. Where who does it? I made it up. You made it up. That's a good one. I like that one. That's really good. Uh I'm going to steal that one. Uh so like, yeah, Medimap, I could see how it this is gonna work. If I had a guess, I would say you've lost maybe six million dollars on this so far. Like Uh I think that's uh that's a I think exactly how much we put in. That was a good guess. Yeah. Uh I be I'm just doing the math as to you're not spending you're probably only spending money on five or six salaries a month plus hosting, which comes out to be probably eighty five to ninety five thousand dollars a month. You've done it for five years. I just made that number up. So Well it goes back to if that was in the States, it would have been more competitive, right?

Because Canada in Canada healthcare is is um not privatized. Not a lot of people are moving into it. And um and there's just not a lot of venture competition. So if we're in the States, we would have had to raise thirty million bucks, move super fast, be really aggressive, but we're able to kinda quietly Go out and do this and build the network. Is Zoc Doc the nearest competitor? I mean, Zoc Doc, I think they're a multi billion dollar company, is that right?

Well, they're only, um they're only in the States, right? And so Um, you know, I think they would be a logical if they ever if they were ever to move international, they'd be a logical acquir of Medimap. And I think that they're a great model. Right now we're looking at it and going, Okay, how do we roll out the Zoc Doc playbook or or find similar businesses elsewhere. I don't mean competitor, but I mean it's the Zoc like the most the nearest Yeah, the nearest uh comparable Zoc Doc, and that's a multi billion dollar company. I think. Yeah. Um, that's pretty cool. Um, I'm looking I I would imagine the sh the thing with with this company is gonna be backlinks. And what's interesting about you guys is um

I'm looking at a I'm looking at now you've got seven hundred and fifty referring domains, which is actually lower than I thought. You've got seventy one hundred back links, but here's why it's kind of actually interesting the way that you're doing it. Uh mo uh none of your All your traffic, I imagine, is gonna be search. Like uh it's gonna type it, you're gonna someone's gonna type in like this clinic wait time or this clinic phone number, and you're gonna show up like don't call, just click to see the wait time. But what's weird to me is In Canada

Do you guys have dot gov websites? Is dot gov only an American thing? No, we have that. It's like well, it's like w dot CA or something. But I think I think we have.gov. The reason I'm asking is If this is if most of your traffic is gonna come from search

You are gonna and all the if some of these clinics are I don't know how the Canadian Uh I don't know how your guys' healthcare system is, but uh if they're a government sponsored or a government owned healthcare clinic, I would imagine it would have a documentary. No, this is the important distinction is they're not government owned. They're government regulated. So the way it works is a clinic up and they're They're challenging businesses because the government basically dictates how much you can charge per visit. And the government has to approve them, they have to be run by a doctor. So it's basically like you can make sliver thin margins.

Um, and that's again why having someone calling all the time, saving money on not having someone on the phone all the time is massive for a clinic owner. But here's what I'm getting at. What I'm getting is is this actually could be a much bigger moat than I w I realized because if you're getting a bunch of dot gov websites linking back to you, a dot gov URL is worth the SEOs out there will correct me, but something like a hundred times more valuable than a dot com. And so I'm looking at this website. If you could talk uh if the if the I'm looking at your uh

uh medi what's it called uh medi map looking at the the clinics if they all link back to you and many of them are dot govs or dot orgs or or whatever or dot edus if they're like uh you're gonna have A stupid amount of backlinks. And you're gonna have a significant advantage over anyone because you're just gonna crush on search because Google Uh uh I think dot govs are significantly h uh higher rank than a dot.

uh a dot com and a.edu. So let's say you can get a university clinic or something to refer back to you. It's gonna be actually quite amazing, I think. And I I would imagine this is the type of company that's gonna be slow, slow, slow, slow, slow, and then all of a sudden it's It's just good it's gonna be like oh like no one's gonna catch us. Like nobody nobody gets this and they go, Oh, you know, there's all these virtual care like Teledoc kind of stuff in Canada. And I just keep saying, like, well, when you break your arm, you're not gonna go on Teledoc, right? There that's a this is like a certainty, like death and taxes certainty is people will always need physical doctors and Yeah, virtual will be twenty percent, thirty percent, whatever, but it's uh it's not going away. It's gonna yeah, you you don't y I'm not gonna call the doctor when I have a kidney stone. Um So what why don't you tell me about uh Hustle Plus? I don't know about it. I don't wanna I wanna I wanna I wanna Did you wanna do Hustle Plus or can we talk about

Uh bakery and then cybersecurity and then single stuff. Is that okay? Totally. I want to talk about bakeries. So you is this the bakery that you've already bought? So no. So I own I own a bakery, um I uh when I grew up my little brother worked at a uh local bakery just down the street from our house. And uh he uh yeah, it was his first job and I used I used to go there all the time. I got to know the owner, um, I used to help him with his computer when I was like fourteen. And he maybe like four years ago said, Hey, look, you know, my parents are getting old. I want to retire. I'm thinking about selling my business.

And I was like, Well, I don't know the first thing about bakeries, but he's got a really good manager in place. And I don't want this to go to the wrong people. Like I literally grew up going to this bakery. It's like an institution in my city. I love it. Uh and so I said. you know, F it, I'll buy it. And so um I bought it and now I own an Italian bakery in Delhi and uh it's actually a good little business. It's like that thing I always think back to of like if all this technology stuff fails and all my stocks go to zero.

I always have a bakery, uh, you know, that's that's not gonna go anywhere for forty years. Um but The idea with the bakery Um so basically Uh a couple of months ago, uh some friends and I did like a paleo diet challenge and I felt amazing, but I had crazy carb and sugar cravings. Like I just wanted like a a treat basically.

And when you're doing paleo, you're not allowed any grains or sugar. And there's hacks around that, right? So you can be like, Okay, I'm having uh something that's sweetened with uh honey or coconut flour, maple syrup, or whatever. Those are all total BS, right? Those all still spike your blood sugar. If you eat a spoonful of table sugar versus a spoonful of um map syrup, like it's Pretty much maybe a little better, but equally bad for you. And so I started researching. Uh, what do you mean? I would have thought that that was obvious.

Yeah, I mean, a lot of people think like I talk to like uh you know friends of mine and they're like, Oh, I gave my kids these these uh really great snacks. They're sweetened with coconut sugar. And I'm just like, dude, sugar is sugar. And like if you were a blood glucose monitor, it's insane. So anyway, so I started researching all these non sugar sweeteners and trying to think about how to hack this and make some snacks that I could eat. Like there's a Like Stevia, Aspertame, all the old uh all that stuff. And I realize there's this whole new generation of these. So a lot of the old ones, they have like, you know, stomach problems, they cause dysbiosis or like stomach cramps and other stuff, but there's new ones that actually taste really, really good, don't cause any blood sugar spikes and are relatively healthy, um, like allulose and stevia and xalitol. And so I actually found a baker

I contracted the baker. And I just said, hey, like make me five or six different things. I wanna see if you know I can make something interesting. And Uh, I started making these chocolate chip cookies and uh, you know, blueberry walnut cookies and all this other stuff. And they were insanely good. And so what I would do is I would give them my friends and say, Hey, I bake these cookies, let me know what you think. And they'd eat them and say they're really good. And I'd say, Well, there's no sugar and they don't spike your blood sugar, and they're all healthy ingredients like almond. Almond flour and almond butter and stuff.

And so I started thinking about it and I was like Um, you know, everyone wants to be healthy right now. And they're used to going to a bakery and eating something unhealthy. given the option, would they choose something that's higher end and healthy, but still taste the same or better? So so like, you know, think about McDonald's, McDonald's was the standard in the nineties. Now there's Chipotle. If you're a little more health conscious, you go to Chipotle.

And so I was like, Holy crap, like you know, I don't really want to get in the baker business, but this seems like a great opportunity. And so I've been working on developing all these recipes and I've started um making like funny. So yeah, so I literally I'm literally starting a bakery. It's gonna be delivery only to start just as like a beta test. And uh I'm calling it euphoria.

And the uh you know, the idea is basically, you know, tastes as good as a normal bakery, but it's actually really healthy for you. And I've worn a glucose monitor. I've done all these experiments. Are you doing levels? So you what are you using? I'm not doing levels. I just use a Dexcom. But uh anyway, I'm I'm beta testing it with a bunch of friends right now, and then in a couple weeks I'm I'm launching it on DoorDash and gonna experiment. Oh my god, it's just like one of those random You know when like a business just like slaps you in the face, didn't you? I want this for myself. That's so silly. I can't believe this is so this is very you this is a

I I find this to be I'm I'm very envious of you for doing this. I think this is so freaking cool. How much um Did you employ this baker full time or what are you doing with them? You just contract. I found someone who can work part time and uh I'm just doing that to start. It's very like eighty twenty. I'm like How do I, you know, invest as little amount of money as possible and as little time as possible to do it? So I hardly designer to do a logo on a simple website. And then I hired a baker to do the baking and then a photographer did

Photograph everything and that's it. What's your startup cost gonna be? Uh Five five or ten grand probably. Maybe a little more than that. This is probably a nothing.

But uh it's one of those things like At the very least, I just think. Yeah. It's definitely gonna be a something. I mean, is it gonna be like the thing? Who knows? It's definitely gonna be our thing. I mean, like you I feel like

You kinda Uh yeah. If you screw this up, you're kind of an idiot. Like well, it goes back to like if I just called it a paleo bakery, even if it was unhealthy and shitty, it would do well, right? And then you add on to that like that, you know, the all the glucose stuff and all the other stuff that's getting hot right now. I think it's quite interesting. To summarize, I think this is such a great idea. Um

I think it will be fun. I think that it will make life worth l like little stuff like this is life worth living. But Maybe it could be immensely profitable. This is really smart. I have a friend named David Hauser who started Grasshopper. Grasshopper I know I'm Grasshopper, a lot everyone knows Dave. He's a good guy. Grasshopper was the software company that he sold, I think, for two hundred million dollars, entirely bootstrapped. It was basically like a

small business phone service. You pay ten dollars or something a month and you get a phone line. Um, he started this thing called Nut Butter. Is that what you no, what's it called? Uh It's like a peanut butter pouch, right? It's like a peanut butter. It's a keto thing. Yeah The business

But he's having so much fun and it seems exciting. Um I think I think like there's a It's a double edged sword, right? So um

I I used to always I used to always ask people like you always get all these tech people who make tons of money or whatever, and you're like, Well, you know, what are you doing with your money? Like are you starting any weird things? Like you know, I love Dan Gilbert, which I talked about in the last episode, um, because he went How do I make my city better? Right. It's like doing the fun stuff with money. And the way I look at this is like A, I'm scratching an itch for something I want, my friends might want, but I make my city better. And it's just a cool, you know, it's a cool fun thing to play with, right? I think the fun part of entrepreneurship is going, this should exist and making it exist. Um, but At the same time, like I've done stupid stuff like that. Like I started a pizza restaurant.

And I lost$800,000 doing it. It was a total disaster. I was getting phone calls like, you know, we had a we had a like an alcoholic manager who was sleeping in the restaurant. Uh, you know, we had a sketchy landlord. We had like just endless stress and bullshit. And so this stuff is fun to a point. And the key that I've learned is just hiring amazing people. So I only like the beginning, like this part is fun. But I gotta get out really quick. Have you heard of the barber Uh

Motorsports Museum and racetrack. No. So there's this guy in Alabama. Where is it? Uh somewhere in Alabama. Let's see. It's in um Birmingham, Alabama, but it's in the country, I think, of Birmingham, Alabama. His name is George Barber. He's probably eighty years old now. His father This guy's eighty and then his father started a dairy company. So like farming dairy company.

Just like Imagine like an Alabama dairy dairy company, that's what it was, sold it to Dean Food for five hundred million dollars or something like that. And they were probably breaking it in throughout the entire fifty year pro uh period in which they owned it. He went with all the money, he went and started this thing called the Barber uh track and barber motorcycle and car museum. And he has something like a thousand or two thousand cars. I believe it's the largest collection of motorcycles in the whole world. And he has this world class track where indie cars Um

Um Like Rolex sponsored Formula One uh races take place on this like people from all over Europe, Monaco all come to Birmingham, Alabama. Чи ста And go to or to go to this

Uh Barber. race track. And It's done so much for the community. I think he invested probably fifty million dollars to make it because it's a nonprofit and you can look at how many assets they have and how much cash they have and uh what their revenue is, and it's amazing. And it's similar to your bakery thing. Now a lot of people like You think like, Oh, how much can a car museum and a track help the community? Well, it actually helps it a ton, because people all everyone go, I'm gonna go to Barber soon and take this lesson. Yada, yada, yada.

And uh that's my version of a of a of a bakery or saving Detroit is I wanna start like a car museum and a car track. I think that'd be I was talking to a friend about this yesterday, but um Do you remember like ten or fifteen years ago, Portland was suddenly cool? Right. Everyone's saying, Oh my God, you gotta go to Portland or whatever. The reason Portland became cool was because of the Ace Hotel. Right. The Ace Hotel was just kind of a funky hotel and had a photo booth and a good bar in it and all this other stuff. It was kind of new. And I always think what's the ace hotel that you can add to your own city?

Right. Like in Victoria, it's like what's the thing that people come to see? And right now it's like uh, you know, some Twee English shops and uh, you know, there's a beautiful uh garden here and a few other, you know, historical things. There's nothing cool. And so I've been thinking a lot about this, like is it like a crazy bar or a music venue or a hotel or something like that? But what's the de what makes this place the destination? Because I think Something as simple as that can change an entire city. Um, I don't know what the answer is, but that kind of stuff is really interesting to me.

Earlier you brought up Henry Singleton. I like Henry Singleton. I've read this really good book called The Outsiders. I know that's probably your Bible. Is that right? I love that book. Okay, so the outsiders, um It's a great book. It's about twelve CEOs who are quote outsiders. The the commonalities is they're like kind of quiet. They're kind of afraid of the press. They are typically in locations like Nebraska or uh

uh somewhere not Silicon Valley or New York and they just get pretty good results, but they get it every single year for like fifty years. So they'll like grow something by like twenty percent. Or fifteen percent, but they do it every year for so long that by year twenty, thirty, forty, it's like, Oh my gosh, they're Warren Buffett, they're Henry Singleton, yada, yada, yada. Who is this guy? So yeah, and the idea is basically that they're capital allocators, which is kind of a weird nerdy term, but it basically just means they they're really good at putting their money into buckets where they can make a lot more of it versus investing in the wrong thing. And what what a lot of people miss is you can have the most innovative CEO in the world.

But if they misallocate their dollars and they put it into, you know, low return R D versus high return acquisitions or whatever, you can have a very bad result despite being very innovative and a great uh leader and manager. Um, so Henry Singleton is like Everyone thinks Warren Buffett's the greatest investor of all time. Henry Singleton, um, you know, I think he died in the eighties, but I'm pretty sure he actually has a better record than Warren Buffett. And nobody really knows his name. They only know it because of the outsiders. Um, there's been one other book written about him, but he basically got into these very niche very technical fields where they would do like um it'd be like navigation equipment that's on like a you know a fighter jet or random little like diodes for for circuitry and all this kind of stuff. But you'd find these niches where they could kind of own it or have a very dominant position in it. What's There's this very simple um kind of way of thinking about um investing. And his whole thing was when the market is overvalued and crazy, that's a great time to issue stock and to sell things.

And when the market is undervalued, you want to be Buying not only buying back your own company. So if you don't own your entire company, you want to go and, you know, buy back more stock and you want to be investing then. And so That approach is you know, it's very simple. It does it doesn't sound like rocket science, but I think it's a really important thing for people to be thinking about right now. And I think now is a great time to be scanning your portfolio or businesses and going, How can I um How can I basically take advantage of valuations right now and either, you know, issue stock or use my stock in my business to go buy stuff or just wait.

for opportunities because right now it's like a crazy seller's market. Which is shockingly the hardest part. Is the not doing anything. Um so in time like You have far more perspective than this. You're uh more successful than I am and you're a couple years older than I am, so you uh just a little everything that I am interested in, you are but more. How?

Are you and other people Who you've met that one. That buying to this. How do you guys just sit and chill? Uh how do you not do new stuff? Because

I I say to myself all the time, I'm gonna do I'm not gonna like pounce on X, Y, and Z. I gotta wait. I gotta wait. I gotta wait. I get so Antsy and I can't Like it's I it's hard. Well, there's a reason I'm starting a g uh uh sugar free bakery, right? Like this that's the stuff that's honestly my s my secret to not doing too much is I distract myself

Um, and you know, before COVID, I'd be distracting myself with sports and you know, playing uh bridge and hanging out with friends and going on walks and stuff. Now it's starting businesses and they're really small little businesses. They're like hobby businesses. Um, you know, it's like um me just kind of playing with 10 or$20,000, but it's enough to keep me distracted and happy and active and feel like I'm doing something, but in reality I'm sitting on my hands and building up cash. And W like you so You still have enough time to do that and do the WeeCommerce thing, which for those of you who don't know, Andrew, I don't know how you describe it. If you started it, which uh you owned it, I don't know what the right terminology is, but you have this thing that went public and is currently like

I don't know what it is today, but like h many hundreds of millions of dollars in market cap. Yeah, we started a business about ten years ago. Um, we met the founder um of Shopify. And at the time we were running a design agency and he said, Hey, we want to launch themes on our platform. We want people to be able to sign up and have different designs they can choose from. And we'll let you guys sell uh these themes on the platform for, you know, 150 to 250 dollars. And so we were kind of thinking like, hey, it's a small little Canadian company, these guys seem nice, let's do it.

And uh we started doing it and Shopify just grew into a behemoth. And we rode the whale and did really well. And we actually sold the business in twenty thirteen. We didn't realize how big Shopify would get. And then we bought the business back in twenty nineteen. Um we did a bunch back. For more than you sold it. Way more. Yeah, I think it was five, five times, six times.

So we bought it back. We we and we said like we, you know, we're just making a big bet. We think Shopify is gonna get a hell of a lot bigger. And we made a holding company called WeCommerce, and we started buying businesses and kind of building a mini version of tiny, um within the Shopify ecosystem. And then we took it public in December. Um and uh were listed it on the TSX Venture Exchange up in Canada. And uh as of right now, I don't know if this is in Canadian dollars or American, but it's six hundred and sixty three million dollar market cap. I think that's US. I think Canadian. That's Canadian. So six hundred Six hundred and sixty three Canadian dollars. So it's pretty big. Um how

But I mean like You're saying you're like just sitting there not doing anything, just waiting, waiting, waiting. It seems like you're doing something. Well I mean I'm we started this podcast by me saying I'm stressed out and busy, right? So I think

I I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea that, you know It's more I'm filling my time when I have it. by distracting myself with this other stuff and that all of the things I'm focused on right now, for the most part. Like while I'm looking at buying businesses, everything's so overpriced that I don't want to make a swing on the wrong thing. So I'm filling the rest of my time with other things. And one of those things is not email. You told me the other day that you um

For the first time ever, which is actually shocking to me, though it's the first time ever you've hired someone or you've asked your assistant to completely manage your email and you said something like This is the first day I've tried it. T B D if it actually works. Is it working? And what are you doing?

Yeah, so I'm doing I'm doing two things that are kind of interesting. So um one, I fully my email to my assistant. So um I get I I've started getting over the last couple of years like two hundred or three hundred emails a day. Um, and honestly, it was just making me kind of miserable. Like it was just I've I've tried all the best practices and we even built a a company called Mailman that basically like slows down your email and and does do not disturb on it and stuff, but it just wasn't enough. And I hit my breaking point a couple of weeks ago. I was just spending like five hours a day doing email. And I set up tech support software. I pipe my email into it. And I have um my assistant and then we have another assistant we have in the Philippines and they basically monitor the email and they have a set of rules. So I wrote out like if someone asks me to sign a document, send it to this person on our legal team, they'll review it. And then if they say yes, you can sign it as long as it's below this amount.

Um If someone requests an interview go and look at the podcast, see how many fall uh downloads it gets, and if it's above this, you can schedule it or whatever. And so I made like 10 of these rules. And now I'm getting like 20 emails a day because the only ones that come through to me are the ones where it's a friend asking me a direct question or it's one of our CEOs or you know, a go-no go on an investment. And so it's just freed me up by like two or three hours. And it's a classic example of like. The emeth kind of where you're like, you know

desperately doing all this stuff that you don't really need to be doing because you've always done it. Um, so that's been awesome. What's um and then what's the email. I don't know what the emith is. Oh, you don't know that book? I'm I I I've seen it. I d I don't know what the myth is. I've never actually read it. The E myth, the the entrepreneur myth, I think it is. But um I think that's the best. See, I always thought it meant electronic. No. It it's it's an amazingly badly written book, but it's a very important message. It was like transformational for me like twelve years ago. And the idea is basically

Um, when people start businesses, they don't build systems and they don't delegate, right? So uh the the uh person who loves baking starts a bakery and then before they know it, they're staying up until two baking, and then they wake up at seven in the morning to mop the floor, and then they're behind the till all day, they're miserable, they're stressed, and they thought they were creating this utopian business that they wanted. And in reality, it just sucks and they're miserable. And the reason it sucks and they're miserable is because they don't delegate, they don't build process, they don't hire people. When they do hire people, they don't give them a chance. And so it's all about how to delegate. Got it. Okay. And what were you saying about the email thing? So

I and then the other thing I did, um, which I has been really fun. Um, I I used to like I used to do this myself, so I used to called email I still do it actually. I still cold email entrepreneurs that I think are really cool and I want to meet We're asked some questions.

And like five years ago, I started getting emails from young entrepreneurs saying, Hey, can you look at my startup or can you give me an opinion on this? And I used to write really thoughtful responses. And then as I got more email, I just couldn't respond. And I felt really, really guilty about this. And I was just like I'd like delete it. Sometimes I'd just be like delete and other times I'd be like one line response and I'd be like fuck they think I'm an asshole. One hundred percent same. Dude, I've done that with some people and then I've eventually become friends with them. And you know how like on Twitter you can see like you recognize people's thumbnail over and over. There's this one guy the other day that I've seen him talk to me all the time. And then I've been hanging out with this other person, like through a friend of a friend like three different times now and I knew his name and I'm like

Fuck! You're the guy I've been ignoring. Yeah. I'm so sorry, man. I'm so sorry. I I I didn't realize it. I so anyway, I do the same thing and it kills me. Well, you never know who they're gonna become or they could have this great idea if you just talk to them and get on the phone. And so Um

What I ended up doing, I realized I was actually doing myself a disservice by responding. Cause I just say like, you know. This is too long, write me a shorter, you know, question or whatever it is. You know the douchey like I'm too busy stuff, right? So Now I write them back, I have a template or my assistant writes them back and just says, Hey, um I don't respond to these via email. What I like to do is I do an e an AMA Ask Me Anything every month. And if you if you can afford to, Donate to charity.

Um, you know, just as a way of, you know, paying it forward or whatever. And so if someone's rich, if someone has a big company already, I'm like, hey, go donate some money. If they're a first time entrepreneur, we don't expect them to. And then Chris and I just do a monthly AMA, and then everyone gets to enjoy the answer we do. And so It's dude, so it's been crazy. So we we've already donated fifty eight thousand dollars to charity. from this. So we basically whatever the community donates, we double it and then we donate it to a local charity. So for we've donated 58 K, half of which came from people who donated And then uh it's probably saved me two or three hours a month of just not responding to these email. So it's it's like a really great hack. Should I copy that? I think that's great. Totally. Yeah, make that up. Uh I yeah, I think we made it up. That's wonderful. That is such a good idea. Where'd you send the fifty six K to? Have you picked your thing? Uh we did one. One was like a uh it's called Bridges for Women, I think I think it was. Um and it's for women that are transitioning out of abusive households.

And then the other one was uh a gym, a local gym. Some guy set up a gym for uh handicapped people because there's no equipment for handicapped people in town. And so it's somewhere you can go and work out if you're, you know, uh paraplegic or something. Uh. Wha what's the most amount of money you've ever Donated or given can you reveal that? Uh

I I've given away probably like Three or four million bucks, I think so far. Wow. That's crazy, isn't it? It's really um It's it's really crazy and I'm just kinda learning. I'm learning I'm going like how

What's the most effective thing to do? because there's everything from like local feel good, right? Where you can help a small number of people, but you know, you're making their life 10% better. But you're not saving a life versus if you put the money into like malaria medication or bed nets or that sort of thing in the third world. Um, you know, I think it that's what I'm kind of debating right now is how to how to be most effective with my altruism.

I can't believe though, like you've given away that much money. That's a huge amount. I've like uh uh I haven't done really much of anything, um, and I want to. Um the way I started was I um I just started doing um donating to science. So I'd be like, as I was researching different medical things, I'd be like, oh, this researcher's really cool. I'm gonna start donating monthly. And I just fund their work. And then over time I just put more and more into it. Um And then, you know, over the last year I started the Tiny Foundation. I don't know if you've seen that, but

Uh, about a year ago I started doing this thing where I would just find people who I thought were smart. in fields that I thought were important and I'd say Here's a hundred to three hundred thousand dollars, you choose where it goes. So you donate it, it can go to your own research, it can go to a friend's, anything you think is important. And it just saves me from having to do all the diligence and work. So I'm looking at it now. Even your

foundation website looks pretty badass, which is awesome. Yeah, we hired hired some really awesome designers for that. Yeah, it looks really good. So for this Um Wow. Besides just like doing good.

Uh, which is like the most important thing, but let's just be real. Is there anything that you're getting out of this? Um, I mean what I get out of it is feeling good. Well, for example, so I don't I don't I don't think I've talked about it on here, but um I had acid reflux, like horrible acid reflux for eight years. And uh I started researching it and I read tons of research about it. And uh I was like holy crap, if you get astophageal cancer, you die. Like there's literally no treatment.

And so I actually one of the things I'm funding is a esophageal cancer. Research center at UBC. Uh, and you know, so you could argue maybe I'm trying to save myself in the future, maybe if I got this. Um, but other than that, it's a great way to meet interesting people as well, right? Like I've met all sorts of amazing researchers and um doctors and all sorts of other stuff as a result. Um But no, I mean it's just I'm trying to figure out how to convert money into

Something other than more money and more, you know. More problems. Um, last topic, something I wanna ask you about. I don't I think it was a friend I forget who, Nick or my friend Nick Gray or

I don't know who, I forget who, said something about how one time you bought a charity dinner or charity lunch with uh Ackman. Bill Ackman. Um and at the time Everyone Like made fun of you. Like who's this idiot for Canada that would spend fifty thousand dollars on a lunch? I mean they don't realise

That that money goes to a charity as well. But they're like, Oh my gosh, like this is so stupid. Yada, yada, yada. Turns out you actually Became friends with Bill, I think.

Uh uh, I don't know him, but I'm gonna call him Bill like I do. And you guys have like done business together and I'm sure you've made that money back. many times over But you have this interesting way of networking. You have this interesting way of getting your foot in the door. One time On this podcast, you've told a story about Warren Buffett. You've told you told me uh a couple of people that you've been hanging out with, like in like you've had you're like, Oh my gosh, I just did a zoom with X, Y, and Z, and they're like

Pretty big deal, people. What is your whole thing about networking? I mean, you're just talking about cult emailing. What what you have this weird philosophy about this. Yeah, so I'm gonna first to start with, I think networking is really fun if you're an extrovert. And I'm an extreme extro, right? So when I feel depressed or sad, I want to be around people, I wanna share my problems, I wanna connect with people, right? So so I by default do this.

Um and I would say like starting about fifteen years ago. Um I just started w I started seeing all these interesting people on the internet and going Wow, they seem amazing. Like I wanna do business with them. I want to become friends with them.

And specifically, there's all these people in New York um who are big Tumblr users who just seem super cool. Uh, you know, the founders of College Humor and Vimeo and all those people. And so I started uh I started doing a couple of things. One of them was I never eat alone. So pre COVID, I'd always have lunch with somebody, usually locally. Um, and I'd almost always do at least one call with a random person who I either haven't met or I'm just building a relationship with, even if it's like thirty minutes first thing in the morning. Um The other thing I did is I started paying to be in the right room. So I remember telling ten years ago

I wasn't doing super well, right? I maybe was doing 15, 20 K a month of revenue or something like that. And I paid$10,000 to go to the TED Conference. And all my friends were like, What the hell are you thinking? You're spending all this money on this. When I went to the t I I have this whole thing about paying to be in the right room, right? So Um When you go to Ted, it's like a secret club. If you get into Ted, every single person that's there is someone interesting. Um, and at the very least, they've paid a lot of money to be there, so they're legit.

And being in the room, if you're in the room, everyone goes, Oh, they're legit too. And so I was this like twerp with this tiny little business, and I'm talking to Al Gore and the founders of Google and you know, all these amazing people. And just being in a room with those people, you naturally over the course of going consistently for years, you end up meeting all these amazing people and making connections. You end up doing business with them. And so My doing that, just going to Ted and probably spending 30K on tickets for three years, I think it ended up resulting in 10 or 20 million dollars of of revenue for my various businesses. And so

I'm a big fan of doing that. The other thing I like to do is host events. So I try and bring someone really interesting uh to town in Victoria, and then I invite a whole bunch of other people who I think are interesting. And then by doing that Um, you know, you've you've basically made this collection of people where you're the host and you know, you're kind of in charge of of the whole group. And you get to meet the speaker and other stuff. And so an example of that is I thought uh Shane Parrish from Farnham Street was super interesting.

and brought him out to do a speaking event, brought out all my favorite people from Victoria and elsewhere. And uh I ended up becoming friends with Shane and now Shane is an investor with us, and we've done a whole bunch of deals and he's a good friend. And so Um I think like One of the

Uh one of the There's just one of the things no one recognizes is there's An insane amount of optionality and upside and just knowing great people, both personally, you know, you make great friends, but uh when you have a problem or you want to build a business or you need investors, being able to call a bunch of amazing people is the ultimate hack. Um and so yeah, that same thing happened with Bill. I went into that charity lunch. And uh you know, actually looking at it as like a kind of a diligence thing, I'd invest in his uh his company. And I was going, Well, if I don't like him, I'll sell it. And if I like him, I'll hold it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I had like five million dollars, five million dollars invested in his uh holding company, Pershing Square Holdings. Pershing. And yeah.

And I don't do he's not a tech guy. He's not a tech guy. Like what I had no I honestly didn't really think of it as like oh this is super strategic. I was going to you? He's a really smart investor. This was in twenty Twenty seventeen, I think, or twenty sixteen. And so that how many years that was a four or five that was five years ago. So you were like what, thirty, thirty one? Yeah, thirty one or so. Um

Uh five million dollars, no matter what, is a lot of money, but At thirty one, that must have been a significant amount of your of your wealth. Um It is my largest investment outside of the tech businesses. And you put it all in that In his fund?

Well, I saw it was basically like Bill Bill had a series of um challenging investments. And so his stock traded way down. And when I looked at it, I was like, okay, I can buy a dollar of amazing stock. So so it's really simple. It's a holding company that owned about 10 stocks. And if you looked at the stocks, it was like Lowe's, Howard Hughes Corp, which is like a real estate business, Chipotle, like really good blue chip businesses. And For every dollar of stock that was sitting in the holding company, you could buy it. For sixty five cents. because it the stock had traded down so much. So it was like buying a dollar for sixty five cents. So

I didn't necessarily think Bill was a you know genius. I thought he was a very smart investor. Uh I just thought it was a very cheap stock. And so I bought it. And then when I saw this charity lunch come up, I was like, Oh, sweet, I can like grill this guy and see if I like him. And the upside is Uh fifty seven grand. And the upside is he's just a really smart investor and maybe I can learn something from him, but I he doesn't invest in tech, or at least I didn't know he did. So I had no like I didn't think I'd be doing business with him. It was like a pinch me moment when, you know, we ended up investing in stuff together. Um

Mm. What happened to the the stock? Uh went up a lot. Uh when I They doubled or more.

tripled or something since I bought it. So it's it's done really well. It's triple so the five million went to fifteen in a matter of six years? I I think I think I actually it might have been twenty eighteen. It's either twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen I had lunch with it. Over the la over the last few few years it it traded way up. He's done he's done amazingly well. I don't know if you saw, I think you guys talked about it on the pod, but he had a bet where he invested five million and it turned into two point seven billion. And that was in that

That that holding company that I'm an investor in. Oh my gosh, that is so funny. Um Um But so back to the networking space. I got distracted. The pay the payoff is that's so cool. I mean, obviously for business, it's great. You surround I I'd really believe you're you're the sum of the five or ten of you know best friends or most interesting people around you. So I think it influences you really positively.

Um, but the cool thing that that's happened is now it compounds. So now I don't actually do cold emails very often. I don't really like consciously network. I just naturally every week or two, I get introduced to someone really interesting. And so now it's this like uh I planted the garden and now I'm enjoying the fruits from it. My issue is I don't really want to talk to people. Like that much. Uh like you and I text message, um, and I'm okay with text. Like I'll text like there's like ten people who I'll text. Uh you're one of them. It's like other than that, I like I really don't want to talk to anyone. And it kinda actually stresses me out because I don't It doesn't trust me out because in in one regard, it doesn't trust me out because I don't want to talk to people. Like I I really only want like a small group and I only want to be with them.

Um And like you're you're one of those people where I'll well I'll just text you and be like, Hey, do you see the new nine eleven get released or like we're just bullshit, right? We don't we don't talk about work. We just talk about uh Just bought this car, does this, this this, check out this video, listen to it, it's cool. Um But then

I feel left out because I'm like, I'm like Sean does this a lot. Sean w networks with everyone and he gets access to all this cool stuff. And I'm like, I want that access. But I don't want to spend the time talking to these people because I just get nervous or Well you have the ultimate you have the ultimate hack though, which is you you have this platform, right? I've started realizing this too. There's a reason I come on. I I have a lot of fun talking to you guys, but at the same time There's 10,000 people listening and a whole bunch of them are super fascinating. And they're gonna email both of us and say, Hey, dude, I'd love to do something with you, uh, or whatever. So we just bypassed, you know. Ten the problem with networking is you do Five boring calls and then one amazing one.

Right. So you're constantly talking to people you don't necessarily want to talk to where they don't turn out to be that interesting when you think they will be. Um, but it's worth it because there's a diamond in the rough. And I think podcasting is interesting because it Let's you You basically have like Ten thousand people who kinda learn what you're about. And they can either decide if they like you or not. And if they opt in and they like you, you've already pre

You've pre like sold them almost, right? Like when I get on the phone with someone fresh. I actually tell a story about like, this is how I started and this is my company and this is what we do. And it's all kind of it's all not a sales pitch, but it's really like, Hey, here's who I am. And you can just bypass all of that. Via podcast or something. Yeah, I I I hear you and I

What I usually when I'll talk to people I'll be like I'll be like, Hey, I don't wanna be pretentious or anything, but like, do you know who I am? Um. Because like I can save us time and I won't like do the spiel. Uh they're like, Oh, I listen to the podcast. I'm like, sick, I'm not gonna tell you anything. What's going on? How are you? Um The the other day I had this guy named Michael Loeb. Do you know who Michael Loeb is? Yeah, he um he has a incubator, like a big, big incubator. His house is the house in billions, the Hamptons house. Yeah, so I like this guy. I I don't know him other than the few minutes that I just talked to him, but I knew about him and I actually admire what I read about him. He started this thing called Synapse, I think.

which he sold to Meredith, some or Time Magazine for uh eight hundred million dollars. Then with that money he started Priceline, uh he started with this guy named Jay Walker, and I think they sold that for billions of dollars. And I think it was the fastest time anyone has ever made a billion dollars. Like from launch to like the sale or the the public markets it was like uh like a year or something like stupidly crazy. He got

Made all of his money there. Bought this huge house in the Hamptons, which if you watch the TV show Billions. Axlrod, Bobby Axelrod buys this house for like a hundred million dollars, like something crazy. And it's like the whole point is it's supposed to be like the the representation of greed and and too much money, and that's the house that he buys. Well, that's Michael Loeb's house. And A couple years ago, he throws this party or a charity actually, a charity event, and they raise like three hundred fifty thousand dollars for this event, but one of his sons uh has a friend over who gets drunk and says something smart to him, so Michael punches him in the face and

And gets arrested. So he's got this if you Google Michael Loeb arrested, you'll see his mug shot. He's got like a white T shirt on, like they c clearly like pulled him out of bed. So anyway, so and they found out that, you know, Michael Loeb is like this rich guy, so the dad of the sons probably sued him, yada yada yada. Well anyway. He heard he didn't, but one of his assistants, someone must make a list of every young entrepreneur who sold the company and they send you this email from Michael and it's like Hey, I'm Michael Love. I'm such a fan. Um, and like I know this guy's like sixty something years old. It does I'm like, I don't think this is you, but that's cool. Like it's your assistant. And he goes, Hey, um

Let's talk. So I talked to him and I could tell he doesn't know who I am and it it's it's no big deal. He wasn't he didn't it wasn't like a disrespect or anything, but uh I was honored that he even reached out or his people did and he's like So I'm thinking about hosting this event for entrepreneurs. Are you are you interested in coming? I'm like, dude. I I'm not gonna be pretentious here, I'm sorry if I come off that way, but Like you're talking to like the guy. Uh I host these things called HustleCon. I do this, I got this podcast thing, I've got this email thing.

Like I've got your target demographic. And he goes, Yeah, well, like I'm wanting to host an event at my house. Have you seen have you heard of my house? I go, Yeah, I've heard of your house. Obviously I've heard of your house. It's like the house. And I'm trying to convince him now to make me a co host and I don't think he's gonna make me a co host, but I hope he'll invite me to come to his house in the Hamptons where he wants to have like fifty or a hundred young entrepreneurs and I have a feeling what this guy does is he owns this thing called Loeb Enterprises, and I think he owns one hundred percent of it. And it's very much like Tiny, where they invest a small sum of money into interesting ideas and they'll co-own the business with the entrepreneur starting it.

Um, or they'll own it wholly and give the entrepreneur a salary. And they build up these companies and then they eventually sell them and they've had some great success. They built up, I think this thing called script relief, uh, did a hundred million a year in profit. Um They built up a bunch of interesting things, but related to networking That that's my networking story. And maybe I'll be hanging out with Michael Loeb and whoever he hangs out with. I don't know who he hangs out with. So cool. I want to invite to that event. That sounds awesome. When we got we got introduced to him when we were in New York last time. So Chris and I go to his office and uh he's like an old school almost like a car salesman, right? Like we sit down. And he's like hi guys, I'm Michael Loeb. And uh he pulls out a slide deck, but it's not on a screen. It's literally a printed slide deck. And he goes, This is my story. He has no idea who I am. He just like

that goes through this slide deck and he starts going line by line about it. And uh I I I've I thought it was really charming and he seemed like a cool guy, but it was crazy. Like he definitely has like a a shtick and he he has like a system for this stuff. Um and we it was really interesting because his house is like crazy. Right. Like I've I haven't been to it, but I've seen photos and you know watch on billions. You go to his office and you're like oh it's just like A New York office, right? Some random office. It's like chaos. There's like, you know, weird desks everywhere. And like shitty chairs and disgusting carpet. It's funny like seeing um, you know, these in New York, you can be the richest person in the world, but it's like you still have to ride the subway. You're still you still you still have a cramped office, all this other stuff. It's funny. Yes, I saw he videoed me and I could see in his office and it looked like

Uh, all of his employees are at home except for his crew. And he clearly had like this very stereotypical, like I didn't actually see this woman, but this is like I s I could kinda tell that this person was in the background. This very typical, like fifteen year old secretary who he's had for like thirty years, who Like I can just imagine her with her flats and like dress on, handing him coffee, and like she's this nice lady. I just like everything about him fit the stereotype. And frankly, I loved it. I think this guy's incredibly interesting. Uh is lobe enterprises is that I think they're really legit. created a couple really interesting things.

Yeah, I mean it's very legit and it's one of those things where you you go in and he's like oh we've got you know this company and this company and this company and you know one of them sends wine direct you know direct mail wine and the other one does like receipts and you take a photo of your receipt and send it and you're you're kind of going like I don't know what the BS is versus what the big businesses are. Like they throw a lot of spaghetti against the wall and they incubate a lot of businesses. And like you said, they have an amazing track record of being some of these big businesses. Um, but uh but yeah, he's he's a total character. Yes, that guy is crazy interesting. I'm so happy I got to talk to that guy. Um I I have another meeting with those folks. Um Um And I'm looking forward to talking to him and if I host that dinner

Or even if I get to attend the dinner and he lets me invite people, I'm gonna invite you'cause um inviting you and a few other people, that's like maybe that's like how I'm gonna look legit to this person. Um Super fascinating. I feel like I can rule the world, I know I can be what I want to

I put my law in it like my day's off On a roadless travel never looking back

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