$250M Founder Reveals How The Rich Avoid Taxes (Legally)

Today we're talking taxes. And we're talking taxes because taxes are my favorite subject. They became my favorite subject when I paid way too much in tax when I sold my company. And I was so happy and so sad at the same time today's guest had the same problem. He sold teachable For over two hundred million dollars. And then decided you know what, he's gonna go on a renegade.

to make sure that no entrepreneur pays more taxes than they need to. Um we basically invited him here and he was like, you know, I could talk about my story, I could talk about my life. We were like, No, dude, talk about taxes. I feel like I can rule the world, I know I could be what I want to I put my all in it like my day's all on the road, let's try to get the floor. Yeah, I'm excited to be here. It's weird how I've

now accumulated a lot of specific knowledge in this one kind of very narrow topic and I'm excited to share it. And the summary of your story, and we'll talk to about a little bit later in the episode, but we wanna talk about taxes. The summary of the story is Prodigy entrepreneur, had a bunch of stuff, started in college, you started a company called Teachable, sold it for two hundred fifty million dollars when you were thirty one. Uh, that was like a courses business. Now you've got a new thing. Was called Carrie. Now or no, was called Ocho, now called Carrie, and it's like a four oh one K like a self directed four oh one K thing. Yeah, absolutely. It's basically the bigger vision is how do we help people build wealth? by saving money on taxes and the solo four one K is our first product.

But yeah, that's the story. The quick sort of other bit is I did not grow up in America, so I knew nothing about the US financial system. The country I grew up in never had taxes. Taxes were just not a thing that existed in Oman where I grew up. So the first time I heard about taxes was when I was twenty one years old. And I was like, wow, you actually have to give money that you earn. This is crazy. Uh, but yeah, you got most of the story. By the way, before we talk taxes, I know we're supposed to just start with the taxes thing. Yeah.

You uh you you have earned your seat on my first million. You made your first million bucks when you were like twenty years old, right? With something pretty funny. Well can you tell that story? Can you tell the fast version of that story? Yeah, absolutely. I was in I was in college at Berkeley and at the time Facebook released a Facebook platform so you could, you know, send gifts to people answering. quizzes and all of that and I built these viral Facebook applications. Starting from when I was eighteen all the way to twenty And it was really fun. I mean, you know, we created personality quizzes, like you could answer a few questions and find out how good a kisser you are, or which friend's character you're most liked to. If you have to take a Facebook quiz to figure out if you're a good kisser, probably a bad kisser, right? Well the fun the funny thing is I'm not gonna I'm not gonna name names. One of the Facebook founders actually took that quiz multiple times, and I know that because You get their Facebook user ID in the database. So user ID number

Not gonna tell you which number it is. It was in our database and we're like, wow, this person really wanted to know. But anyways, yeah, so we created these personality quizzes and then friend quizzes and stuff, and yeah, I you know. millions of daily users, uh, was able to make a million dollars before as twenty one, which was pretty cool. Yeah, that's amazing. Um, so you've you've earned your your street cred here for us uh on my first million. All right, so let's talk let's talk taxes. W if I'm an entrepreneur What are the biggest things that I need to know about taxes? What are the things I should be knowledgeable of and doing in order to save money?

Cool. The first thing I think everyone should know, even people who are not entrepreneurs yet. Is the US tax code is rigged in favor of business owners. Um, it's very intentional, but you can look at a country's tax code and learn a lot about what it stands for. And in America, two things stand out. The tax code is rigged in favor of

people involved in real estate. It's the most tax advantaged asset class. And two people who start businesses. So the first thing I tell someone is If you are a full time W two employee somewhere, if you are not yet a business owner.

consider becoming a business owner since it is the single biggest thing you can do to optimize your taxes. Like that is just written into the DNA of this country. And it's something that I never realized until I started digging and was like, wow, there's The playbook for what you can do to pay less in taxes. is ten times bigger if you are a business owner.

So it's rigged in favor of business owners and real estate. And most people Kind of ignore this. I would say like the advice I got growing up was, you know, you go to a good school so you can get a good job. That's what winning was. And um and even the advice around money, which was kinda like

You know, hope you know, try to try to get like a a raise, maybe ten percent. You know, try to save. But the hard part about saving is that Your biggest expense is taxes, right? Your s your your taxes might be thirty to fifty percent depending on where you live and and how what bracket you're in. Um, that's your biggest expense. And that's every single year off every dollar you make. Unless you're able to shield it with some of these uh these things you're gonna talk about.

I think I d I don't know if you remember, but Warren Buffett back in the day had a famous quote where he's like My secretary pays a higher tax rate than than And I do, right? Yeah. What an asshole. I think the issue though, it's not an issue, it's just it is what it is. If you have W two income

I'm almost positive there's close to no way that you can reduce that. your tax liability other than maybe um Like minor percentage points. You're like a the the you can do crazy stuff by using your spouse. You can have your spouse become a real estate professional. So then you as a couple can write it write off real estate depreciation, but you have to get pretty fancy to do things with W2s. You're right. There is a universe of things just much smaller.

And then like let's say I make a million dollars a year as uh a business owner, like Yeah. I g I I actually don't know what the savings can be. I know with QSBS I saved A huge sum. But I don't know what I could do reduce my my taxable income by as a business owner but I know it's a lot, whereas the W two, it ain't

Well, let's tell the W two story real quick, because uh I know people in San Francisco that have high paying jobs at like you know a a Facebook or a Google. And Yeah, they're marrying somebody and they're like, Hey Guess what, honey? You're a real estate broker now. They're like, What? I don't want to do real estate. You want you're a real estate professional now. It's like they have to get get the status and then they're buying Airbnbs in order to offset their uh their W D W two income.

We literally say that like tongue in cheek, right? We have a presentation on like how do you lower your tax bill as a W two professional. Point number three is marry a real estate professional. Like it it's like tongue in cheek, but it actually It actually is one of the very few things you can do as a W two professional. But I don't think anyone pays more in taxes. Than highly paid tech employees, like in terms of tax bracket. That's about as bad as you can get, you know? Two people in San Francisco making four hundred thousand dollars a year together, cool, you're paying

Half of it in taxes. Yeah, and the is before it even comes to you. It's just taken out of your paycheck before you even get it. Um all right. So let's say we are an entrepreneur. Sam mentioned QSPS. I'm guessing that's gonna be number one on your list because it's such a huge advantage. Explain what it is and then explain The kind of beginner level and then the advanced level version of doing it. Cool. So four big letters in the US tax code. This may be the single most generous tax break available today.

It's called QSBS Qualified Small Business Stock. This is insane. So when you look at all these tech companies being built and sold. The reality is most of them are going to have shareholders that pay very little in taxes and that's because of what's called QSPS. Which roughly says if you hold shares

In a C corporation. For five years. You pay no taxes. On up to ten million dollars in gains. Um, it applies to founders.

It applies to employees. It also applies to investors. And it's such a generous tax. You're forgetting the up to ten million or ten times your basis, whichever is greater. It's a great point. It's either ten million dollars or ten times what you pay for the shares. As a founder, it's most likely going to be ten million since you buy your shares for almost nothing.

But this is this is massive. Like when I sold my company, I live in New York State. And in New York State, even New York State doesn't charge you taxes. So I only had to pay New York City taxes. On the first ten million dollars in gains. And this is By size of benefit it's absurd, right? Because you think about

W two employees getting taxed so heavily And here you have startup founders, employees, investors. Paying nothing. on ten million dollars when they sell the company. Sean, I think California is the only state that doesn't recognize QSPS. There's actually six. There's actually six or seven states.

There's a couple that partially don't recognize it. Forty three don't Forty three, uh, you'd pay no state taxes as well. If you're not paying any taxes on ten million in gains. You would normally otherwise pay long term capital gains, which would be Roughly twenty percent. Plus there's like a three point six percent something extra fee. So it's like, you know.

Basically two point three million is what you get net extra. Correct? That's that's the actual in your pocket. In New York substantially more. Don't forget there's another million plus in New York taxes that I'm not paying. Okay, cool. So and yeah, so for California you'll pay another thirteen percent on top if New York if you're in one of the USB S uh you know, free state. Then you're saving another m let's say million to million one point three million. I'm not in additional state taxes. So about

Two and a half to three and a half million dollars in your pocket. Yep. Or Or I've got a friend who had a company who is it's uh I won't say publicly but Anker. You and I is are very close friends. who had a company that was I think an S Corp.

The uh Converted to a C corp. at a thirty million dollar valuation. And so eventually when he sells, it will be ten times thirty.

So three hundred million dollars. So that that difference Which is uh I can't do the math, but two hundred two hundred two hundred and seventy million dollars gain. That will be the tax free portion. I was I was saving that for the advanced strategies, but yeah, there's a There's a lot you can do to truly like

Multiply this benefit. I heard about the ten million thing and I was like wow, this is insane. Like really, really cool. But then I found out that the limit is per shareholder. For a company.

So where this gets interesting is if I give some shares To my mom. My brother My dad Each of us now have our own ten million dollar limit. So it's a family.

We have a forty million dollar limit. Or if you go down the estate planning rabbit hole, which it's a little complicated, but at a certain point, you know, hire an attorney, figure it out. Um, you can set up trusts. I set up trusts for my future children, trusts for charity, and each of these trusts get their own ten million dollar benefit. Which multiplies this theoretically as many times as possible. So what happens if you what if you set up for three future kids and you only have one future kid? Um you can basically set up

Like the so what I did for instance, or I have no kids, is you can set it up for future beneficiaries as well. So it's any of my future children are entitled to to have the trust. What's important is It's an irrevocable gift. You can't take it back. Okay, but what if you don't have kids now? Um, it has to go to either my parents, my brother. I've named a bunch of different beneficiaries. So there's like a line. There's like a there's like a order, order operation of operations. Yeah. You're like the only brown parents who are like oh, Anker, it's okay if you don't have children. It's okay. As long as you're happy. As long as you're happy, it's okay. I wish I wish, honestly, that would be

It would be worth the ten million dollars to not be harassed by my parents. And so this is called like stackable trust, right? Like this is called QSBS stacking. So Couple of things I didn't realize the first time around that I'm doing differently this time around. So the first time around I was the only person to hit the holding threshold because I didn't realize How this works. But this time around I've given all my early team members shares instead of options so they can start their clock ticking.

That's a really important thing that a lot of people don't realize is you have to own the shares for five years. Not options. The way that companies get around this, right, is you do the eighty three B election, right? Uh and you basically buy your shares at the super low price. Mm-hmm.

We should explain how archaic the IRS is. So there's this thing called the eighty three B, which I don't exactly know what it means, but it's basically you may uh whenever I start a company, I have got to write a check to myself for a hundred dollars. Or I write from Sampard to the name of the company Inc. And I have to mail it. to the IRS and I like handwrite on it and I write a letter to them and I say This is Sam Parr. I'm writing you one check for one hundred dollars. And I'm literally writing this out by hand. Will you please

uh send this stem envelope back to me that has proof that you receive this it's literally like the tooth fairy dude. Yeah. It's like the toothberry. And you write the I when you write the address and you just write like I R S. Like uh I forget where it is in California. And by the way, you have to do this Three weeks, I think, or ninety days. Thirty days.

Thirty days. Thirty days after you do this, they have to get it. And so right when you file the company, you've got to run to the convenience. So I get your stamp and envelope and hurry up and do this thing. And then you write this out. And somehow this works. And what's even crazier is The IRS will check in on you to make sure you did this right unless you get in trouble and you have to like save this like envelope, like Gotcha, bitch. I got the envelope, I filed it away. Like it's crazy how this works. And if you don't do it, you

have to pay millions of dollars in taxes. Like it's a very very hundreds of millions. Yeah. It's a very high stakes document. Yeah. It's a high stakes document and you like have to write it. I remember like thinking like I gotta make sure my seven is perfectly clear. So that's not a T or Like it's like a very stressful thing and you have to write it up by hand. It's crazy how like archaic it is. I I didn't understand this rule. Um But our CFO was like, Hey, did you do your A to three B? And I'm like, No, no, it's be fine. She's like, No, no, you have to do it within thirty days.

And it's I was like, Okay, well can you just like, you know Where's the form? Can you send me the link? She's like, No, no, you have to print this out. You gotta go take it to the post office and I was like, Oh man. And she looked at me, she's like, You don't do those types of things, do you? I was like, No, I don't run errands like that. I got I just simply don't I'm out of the postal system. Like I don't mail things, I don't check my mail, like I'm out of that whole system in general. Yeah, you're like how many stamps do I need? Like fifty, forty? What part do I lick? And so I'm like licking the form and I'm like Then I I I finally have it.

And I realize I'm on day thirty seven. And so for the next Five years. It just haunted me. I was like, I didn't do that goddamn form. And then when my company finally

Basically failed. I was like Didn't matter. I was like, it didn't come back to bite me because I was for five years had been dreading that my lack of uh you know belief in doing shit like doing annoying paperwork things was gonna bite me. And I was so happy when that one entity failed and that the other entity was the one that sold, I was like, This is this is amazing. But here's the crazier part is you can claim you did it in time, right? So very technically what the document means is it it says I am like tax me on what the value is today. I'm choosing to be taxed up front. But if not for signing this, any time your company grows in valuation, you could theoretically be liable for taxes. Can you imagine what a nightmare that is? Like let's say you raise

A series A, a series B, a series C Yeah, you wouldn't not you wouldn't have money. You wouldn't have money, but you'd have a tax bill. It's like really, really bad. So there's a dark side to this, which is that uh Sometimes if you join a company later Like I think Bolt got it was pretty popular. This happened at Bolt. So Bolt was like hey

We are lending our our employees' money to buy their shares. That was such a shit show. five billion or ten billion dollar valuation. And they were like, see, this is great because now they're gonna start their clock of owing the shares. But people were like, Okay, so what happens if the valuation goes down? And they're like now not only do my shares become worthless, I owe the money for those shares at that

premium valuation and people were like, This is not gonna end well. Uh, the full story hasn't played out, you know, Bolt is uh It is still going, so it's it's unclear exactly what's gonna happen with that. It's trending in the direction like that was a bad idea. I think it's undoubtedly a bad idea. It was a twenty twenty one valuation, like tens of billions of dollars, like It's it's not good.

And people saw it coming and it's It's really bad when you now like I'm I'm hoping they forgive those loans'cause otherwise you have Not only are you making nothing in equity, you have You owe eighty.

hundred thousand dollars just for working there. At our company, our investor was like, Here's the promissory note. You don't have to come up with the cash and we'll forgive this if this ever happens. And I was like Can you write that? They're like, No, we can't write that down. It's like you don't just have to trust us. I was like, Okay, I I do trust you. If they if they were to write it down, it's taxed you as income. So that's why they can write it down, right? Yeah. Yeah. All right. I wanna go to the counter opinion. So we got friends who

You know, they're like, Oh, the number one thing, get out of California, you schmuck. Uh come to come to Texas. No no no, forget Texas, you're still in the federal paying federal tax. Come to Puerto Rico. Oh god, should you Should I move to Puerto Rico to save money in taxes, according to Andrew. So so to me, this gets to the meta level, right? Like why do we have money? What is the point of money? And I think there's two camps of people. Camp one is like They look at their life as as this vessel to make as much money as possible.

And other people look at money as a tool to live the life you want. So I very firmly fit into the latter camp where money enables me to live the life I want. Yes, I don't want to pay more in taxes than I have to. And you know, gamifying the tax system is also fun just because like I'm a hustler and it's kinda fun to do. But I wanna live the life I want. And to me that means living where you want.

So I I wouldn't I would personally never ever move somewhere just to save on taxes. Well you've done the exact opposite. You you you live currently in You live in the highest tax place in America, I believe. Correct. And um

I'm totally fine with that because again, like Money enables me to live the life I want. I just tend to think And it's ironic'cause, you know, I'm running a company that helps people save money on taxes. The kinds of people who spend all their life worrying about taxes are some of the unhappiest people I know. So I don't ever want to get to that point. And sometimes when you move to like, you know, a utopia with zero taxes, you're surrounded with everyone else that moved there for that reason. That's your group. Your friends are other people who hate taxes. And I don't know if if you know

That's the social circle I want. Did we have John Lee Doomis on the pod? Do you remember this, Sean? And we were talking about taxes and he was like Bragging about how he moved to Puerto or something like that. Dude, he was glowing. I thought he was pregnant. I was like wow, this guy's so happy he moved to Puerto And he was so happy about it. And he ba and then he started making fun of me that I didn't live in Puerto Rico. Do you remember that? He was like insulting me and I was like John, we're not close enough that you can make fun of me that hard. It's a podcast, um

You know, I think that the thing, uh, you know, a lot of people who listen to this podcast have h all we all share one goal, probably. Uh we have we have many different goals, but one we share is We all want Financial freedom. And Most people think financial freedom is

Oh, I'm free to buy what I want, do what I want. It's the financial leather jacket. You're a financial badass now. All right, cool. But I think the real financial freedom is when money doesn't have a hold on you. So it's not about Exactly. Money does not control you or p or Uh.

make you do things that you don't want to do. And so it's it's more of Freedom from money, not freedom to spend money. You had a point on on this thing I want you to explain and it's really a direct attack at Sam. You said The point of having money is to not worry about money. If you're wealthy but still stressed about money, which I see all the time, you're missing the point. All right, Sam, look this man in the eye and Anker, tell him I don't I don't blame I don't blame him if if it's him or anyone else, because these are beliefs we form very young in life. Like at to some degree, they're not even fully conscious beliefs. So if they're not

conscious beliefs to try and sort of program It but yeah, I have so many f like super wealthy friends, friends, you know with hundreds of millions of dollars who are stressed about the pursuit of more money. They are hundred millionaires who want to be billionaires or something and And again like You said it really well, right? The whole

point of money is to be free from it and and do what you want. Like to me The best thing I bought with money was being able to say no to a job that would have paid me tens of millions of dollars in equity because guess what? I don't need it anymore. Can I just say, Sean. So look.

I let me defend myself. I came on here and I express uh my belief on money and how I I'm fearful of it and how I want it to make me happy and it doesn't But you did Camp MFM and you told me about Joe Gebia. Joe Gebia is worth 10 billion dollars and you told me this crazy story that blew my mind about how happy he is. And everything like this. And so I radically changed my opinion on money and happiness. And now I realize

I just need 10 billion to be happy. That's all I need is ten billion. So like my opinion has been changed. It's no longer about scarcity mindset. If I have ten billion, I will be happy. I'm glad we go. I'm glad you go you've been enlightened. All right. Give me a couple other quick hot takes before we No, you're gonna make fun of Sean now, which is there's no true alpha. Yeah. Let's frame it. You said There's no true alpha in investing. I realize that's sort of a fool's game. That's why instead I realized I can I can optimize my tax setup and make more money that way than try to beat the market. As a guy who uh

has been attempting to beat the market for quite some time now. Unsuccessfully. How's that been going? Wait, an answer the question. What are the wins and what are the losses? And we're not talking about private. We're talking about uh have you been try have you did you try to beat the market in terms of public too? He looks kinda sheepish. He looks kinda sheepish. He's he's like me cry? What's happening here? No, no, no. I I I don't know. I actually don't know if you pick and choose stocks. I know you pick and choose private companies, but that was like your job. I agree that most people cannot beat the market. I do not agree that nobody can beat the market over a specific period of time. I know that that's an unpopular and I know that, you know, the famous Warren Beffitt bet, I know all those things. I just refuse to believe that it's a it's not a bell curve. So um

I think the people that beat the market spend all their lives doing that for their own capital, right? Like think about Jim Simmons, right? His hedge fund has returned like forty percent on average. They're not taking outside capital. What I think is a little bit of a scam is a lot of the financial services industry that tries to Promise you outsize returns. Who promises that? Like like like what's that stereotype hedge funds? Cause I I've never met like a financial advisor that would be dumb enough to promise. Any any actively managed fund, right? So yes, hedge funds are a big big sort of thing. Any active stock picking fund, I mean, there's a lot of stock picking funds that charge you one to two one percent a year.

Uh and their portfolio They say it will outperform or whatever. Um, so does every real estate fund, venture fund, basically like anything that charges outsized fees, anything that charges more than a Vanguard fund. That's crazy. That That people like buy into that though.

Correct. So our our thesis is always like, Okay, fine. I do think better tax strategy can actually create alpha. Alpha is a you know finance term for like you will outperform. Um and using that tax alpha to just put more dollars in the market. I think is a smarter approach and the approach I like and you know I'm taking with my money as well.

out of a hundred percent of your net worth is one hundred percent of it? In The S P index? No, absolutely not. Like I have I have a lot of fit not in the S P index, but that's my fun money. I think there's a good chance I don't outperform. Um and a lot of it is in private uh private investing, which are funds that I own.

But I think I'm the only person I know who has a fund as big as mine and charges no management fees. The average venture fund charges twenty to twenty five percent just in management fees and and the average person does not realize that. We charge zero percent. Sean, do you know how I tell tell you that I don't buy individual stocks?

Yeah. I real I w looked at my portfolio the other day. It was the first time in a year that I looked at it and I realized I was wrong. I've done it Twice or three times. The company that I did it on.

What's play? It's Playboy. Uh I had read I had read their annual report. Yeah. You can't just call their magazine their annual report, dude. That's called their monthly calendar. Yeah. But yeah, actually their annual report. They have a lot of photos. Uh and Oh, Jenny old Jenny McCarthy picture holding up the uh balance sheet. That's nice. Uh I uh I did that because I was like, Oh well, like they're prop they're they're They're a real estate asset is worth more than what they're trying to sell the company for. And I was like, that's smart. I'll do that.

Did not win on that one. So lost on that one. Also did Coinbase at the IPO. And then I sold it. Uh Two weeks before it popped, like Three months ago or whatever, whenever it was. Like four hundred percent. So I've I've done I've I've done two. No, you've also done it with HubSpot. You got HubSpot stock. You could have sold it and diversified. You decided to hold. That is a decision to buy. That's correct. I did and and with Airbnb. Yeah, correct.

The two biggest holdings in your portfolio. Correct. So you do it too. We all do it. No, those aren't my those aren't my two biggest holdings. The uh my index funds are significantly larger. But uh yeah, I have done it. So I've done it as well. So I'm like you, Anker, I have my fun money thing. It's just that I happen to have a fun money stash that's eighty percent instead of twenty percent. Yeah. I mean, look, at the end of the day, as long as we realize what we're doing, it's fine, right? Like I I think we all have to learn this lesson ourselves. In twenty twenty one. I thought I was a damn genius. I was like, these index funds are stupid. My portfolio is up like three hundred percent.

I should just be a stock picker for life and yeah, then you come back to reality and Didn't realize. Mm. Huh. It was many see because again, if you remember, there's such an insane run up for a while. You couldn't lose every company was up a hundred percent day on day.

It was when investing was the most fun. It should not be that fun. And then yeah, there were numerous days of like, Cool, I've lost three hundred thousand dollars today. Cool, down half a million dollars today. Cool. And just that happening happening repeatedly while the S P five hundred kind of just kept chipping away and growing and

You know, NVIDIA comes out of nowhere and all these stocks that I only held because it had an index fund, otherwise I had no exposure. Sean, let me and Ankar, let me tell you this crazy story about uh tax stuff that I learned. This is like one of those tax hacks. I'm not the biggest fan of tax hacks, but this is actually a good one. I met this lady, she was speaking at one of our events. And uh I don't wanna say her name of her company, but she was on the commercial for this credit card company. because she loved the credit card so much and her business was doing, let's say, fifty million a year.

And she was putting a lot of of it on a credit card. And it was giving her three hundred thousand dollars a year. of either points or cash back. Mm-hmm. And according to the IRS, a cash cash back from a credit card is considered a rebate. And I believe you get up to I don't remember what it is. I don't know what it is now, but three years ago when she told me this.

She said it's uh three hundred thousand dollars a year of of rebates. Is that you know what it is nowadays? Is it the same? Something like that. Depends on the card itself, but yeah. Oh, I I thought it was by the government. I thought it was limited to the government. It must have been limited to the credit card. She was getting three hundred thousand dollars a year of cash back, of which she was like That's my salary. I don't take a salary or I take a very unmeaningful salary for my company and I'm living off my credit card points. And that was pretty wild.

Did you know you could actually pay your taxes at a credit card and it's for some People can actually like arbitrage that where again, this is insane. I would never do it, but it's just I just found it interesting. You can pay your taxes on a credit card. There's not a very high extra fee. And in a lot of cases, you can actually end up slightly better. It's a very painful thing to do. David Hauser did it. David Hauser sold his company Grasshopper, I think for two hundred million dollars, and he paid his taxes on his Amex. And he called AMX and he told him what he was gonna do. And so I don't I don't remember what the bill is, but let's say twenty or thirty million dollars of a tax bill, he paid that on his

Amex and he goes I've got I just got You know, a couple decades worth of flights. That's like that's that's the that's the other thing with credit card points is once you learn how to use them for travel. The cashback feels less good. Like yes, the cashback has a theoretical value. But there's so much more valuable applied to travel.

Once you kinda learn How the game works. What's the smart way to do it? Okay, so the thing you always want to avoid is never spend the points on your credit card website. That is the thing almost everyone does and you lose a ton of value there. I do that.

Yeah. So what you want to do instead is create an account with an airline. Like I do it with Emirates a lot'cause I fly internationally or with Air France, K L the international airlines are the best. Look up a flight on their loyalty program. Do the transfer. It takes like

thirty seconds and you'll probably save seventy percent points right there. No way. Seventy percent? Yeah, I've I've tested this a lot. 'Cause what these don't really do it says transfer like there's a tiny link that says transfer partners and you have to that's where you send your points. You never spend it in the thing that's gonna save you so many points. I've spent I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on flights over the past ten years through chase. My chase referred to card. I yeah, I found this out two years ago and it was life changing. Yeah, absolutely. You got you got hose, bro. That it's so bad.

Wait, you knew that, Sean? Yeah. I paid this guy Mo Points. He's like this guy who'll call you he'll teach you about credit card points. Uh or like he'll he'll just be like, What's your situation? Here's what your credit card setup should be, and here's how to use it. And so he showed it to me.

And I was like Wow, that was like the best three hundred dollars I've ever spent because That one session, which I thought, uh, three hundred bucks to do this call, that's kind of a lot. Of course, I mean the the the savings and just n understanding how to book the flights better,'cause he's like This is luxury travel. You you you want to travel first class all around the world.

Here's what you need to do. And for for me, I have an e com business, so we're spending millions of of a year in ads. So he's like, You need this M X gold'cause it gives you four X. on every Facebook point that you uh every dollar you spend on Facebook or Google. And so you're getting four X multipliers. He's like, but then You gotta transfer it out.

And then you got to use this website a website like Points Ot Me or whatever to um be able to search. for points across all the airlines. Yeah. I think just transferring out is the eighty twenty. If you want to tell someone in one sentence how to do better. Transfer your points out. Do you have any more of those little little tricks? What else you got in your hat? Come on, magician. Pull something. So solo four oh one K, this is w the first product we built and

I had an LLT for a while. I was earning some you know, some random money. And I saw I Found this account called a solo four hundred which is Like your own like your corporate four hundred one K.

But it exists exclusively for you. And with that, you can do really cool things. So one, you can put in up to sixty-nine thousand dollars a year. Typically if you max out your corporate account it's very hard to hit the max because your company match is not enough. But with a solo four one K you can put in sixty nine thousand dollars a year, get that as a tax deduction.

Um, the second thing is you could do the whole thing as a Roth contribution. So if you read about Peter Thielen, how he grew his, you know, billion dollar Roth IRA. Traditionally with the Roth IRA you can only put in seven thousand dollars. Can you tell the Peter Thiel story real quick? How did he Use a Roth IRA to make billions? Oh man, this was both genius and kind of possibly illegal. But what he did is he bought his founder shares at PayPal.

With his Roth IRA. So he spent like two thousand dollars to buy PayPal shares. that became worth twenty seven million dollars. when Paypal's soul. And then he had twenty seven million dollars to just make all kinds of investments. He alleged bought his like Facebook shares, ten percent of Facebook.

From his Roth IRA. So he's gonna turn fifty nine and a half in a year. And he's gonna have five billion dollars tax free. Which is pretty wild. The wildest part about that what you just said is that Peter Thiel only made twenty seven million dollars selling PayPal.

Yeah. Yeah, I can do it. I didn't realize that me and Peter Thiel are sort of uh We're sort of, you know, apples and apples, I guess. Uh yeah. Right. Sam, like the the hustle and PayPal netted the bounders. Very similar amounts of money. That's kind of amazing. Well, what what we don't know is if Peter Thiel uh had other shares not on his Roth IRA, which is quite possible, actually. Ah, damn. Uh news too good to be true. Let's just take it down. Probably not. She's gonna have to show that to me for me to change my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not gonna let facts get in the way of me beating Peter Tiel. What about uh can a person have more than one four one K?

Yeah, so that's what's cool is if you have a full time job and a side hustle you can have a solo four one K for your business while still contributing to your employer four one K. Um, but because it's your own four one K, you can invest it in anything, right? Your employer four one K has like A list of very specific assets. With a solo four hundred one K you can invest it however you want.

If you need liquidity, you could borrow up to fifty thousand dollars from it. It's simply the most powerful retirement account in America, but it's not available Unless you have your own business. Isn't the normal four one K kind of a racket? Like the thing where they're like you can only buy these these funds using our four one K is that because they get a lot of them have fees.

No, it comes from the four one K provider. The long answer is uh corporate four one K plans are subject to ERISA laws like employment, retirement, investment, something act. And those Those acts are just there to protect. Employees. But as a result, employers can't do things that help them.

Like there are limits on how much you can contribute to yourself. If your employees are part of the same plan, limit to investments. But if there's no employees, go crazy. So the f solo four one K you can put that in'cause you like But in real estate, could you put in anything? Is it like a If yeah, the only thing you can't do, which is what the whole Peter Thiel

thing may be slightly illegal is you can't have a self-dealing transaction. So I can't invest in my startup. I can invest in Sam's startup. That's totally fine. But I can't invest in my own company. I can't invest in my house, but I can do commercial real estate. Gotcha. Okay. That's not self dealing for him, is it? If you that's just a a a major angel investment.

He was the founder too, which is why it's sketch. He was the founder of PayPal, remember. If he was just an angel investor, it's fine. Uh, he he might you know. We might eh. Might be a an accident for Ankur if you keep talking like this out loud. He's got five billion dollars writing on nobody paying too much attention to this. Yeah, I mean look, so people'cause no, people ask us all the time, Can I do what Peter Thiel did? And I was like, look, it it may be fine. If you don't own over fifty percent, I wouldn't'cause again, like

The thing with the IRS is a lot of these things are not clear rules. They're rules written a certain way. Someone interprets them somehow. The IRS challenges it. Sometimes the IRS loses in court and that's how loopholes are established, right? So So like the problem that I have with my My personal Bookkeepers.

or accountants, my CPA. Like they're pretty reactionary. So it's like at the end of the year, like we are dealing the problems and then everyone makes the same thing where they say, Next year, I'm doing this right. But I'll worry about it in like two or three months and then two or three months becomes like way later. That's the real New Year's resolution, to be honest. It's the three weeks after tax after you file your taxes is the the real New Year's resolution. To be honest, candidly, that's the problem we're having, because right now we're realizing we have to educate the CPAs a lot. And almost everyone that comes to us and it's the bias sample, they do not like their CPA.

Um and we don't do that yet, right? Like maybe there's a world will do it. But who do you have? Like do you hire like a tax strategist who is like more offensive And do do they w they work in tandem with your CPA? What do you do? So for me personally at once I've You know. gone down this rabbit hole. Um, we're doing this internally. We have a program where

We help people with the tax strategy part. We don't do tax filing, so I'm basically using our But yeah, there's a big part with tax strategy that is not the person signing off your tax return. Should they be separate? The way the world is written today, the like just laws and stuff, it is because the person filing your taxes typically doesn't do that much strategy. Um, it's sort of just why like even if let's say you want to set up a trust, you need an estate attorney who's different from your financial advisor, who's different from your accountant. And To the average person, you're like, Why? Why can't one person do this and

Those are the kinds of things worth thinking a lot about, like how do we productize this in some way, shape, or form? While still being compliant because compliance It's a big, big, big part any time you try and build these kinds of businesses. So I was so um

you know, stressed out last tax season, uh you know, that I was like, Okay, how how am I gonna do things differently this year? So I I was like, I'm gonna treat this like it's its it's my own business, it's its own product, it's its own company I'm starting. And so I was like, I'm gonna go on a road show and I'm gonna go And basically see

Who's out there for you know, uh go give me your best pitch. And I created a data room. I was like, this is my tax setup and I put all the time in like Here's a flow chart. Here's my prior year's returns. Here's what here's what I pay to taxes. Here's what my ex expectation is for next year. I was like Here's a turnkey data room, so I don't even have to have a phone call with you.

I'm like I have the phone call and I on the phone call I tell them exactly what I want. For some reason I would like go to these tax people and I think it's an insecurity. It's like because I don't know. As much about taxes as you. I kinda defer everything.

And I almost become like I work for you. And then I'm like I splash water on my face. I'm like, Whoa, whoa, no, no, I'm paying you. Hold on. This is backwards. You worked for me. I forgot. Yeah. Uh why am I pretending like I I can I have to tiptoe around even asking you for what I want. And so I I go in and I'm like I felt this way.

I never want to feel this way again. I want somebody Who's gonna take care of everything? I you know everything from I want you to Literally

I want you to be able to pay bills if I need you to. up to filing my my returns for all of these, you know, I got twelve entities, all twelve entities. Um And I need you to do strategy and I need you to be coming to me every, you know, every quarter with proactive suggestions about what I should be doing. Um

That's what I want. Who can provide me that? And I went on tour basically And it's such a better way than I was doing before. I highly recommend this for anybody who's like Has enough. Income and kind of uh business value where that makes sense to do, which I don't know what that number is. It's probably different for a lot of people. It wouldn't have made sense sense for me three years ago to do that. It's like ah Whatever, you're paying a you know, a couple hundred K in taxes or you know, even a million dollars in taxes, it's probably not worth

That much effort to go do. But as you scale I think it's important to do that, I'm realizing now. Yep. And I also think it has to be a collaboration. It's very hard. A lot of people are like, Oh, if I had a tax guy, they would solve all my issues. But a lot of the best strategies, they're like long term, right? Let's say you want to start a business to get acquired five years later. That's the kind of stuff that you like. Need a partnership to be discussing.

And have someone you're working with. Somewhat. least quarterly, right?'Cause there's a lot of this stuff that Like the more you know The more you'll push them and the better the things you'll achieve.

I'm actually gonna do that data room thing. That's the second thing that you've said in the last few months that it's like gonna have a change in my life. That's really smart. The first thing. Bro, we talk twice a week on this podcast. That's the second thing in months. That was good. Yeah. Yeah. Well the well like a lot of the stuff you say, I'm like, I'm either already doing that or I don't want to do that. Or uh like I'm not sure if you're right, or that's only okay. But the you said that data room thing is actually a really wise wise way to look at it. The other thing that you said it was it Hit me. I was like That's brilliant.

And it was uh when you were selling one of your h uh your house in San Francisco. You so like w I forget what real estate agents make six percent. But you're like but six percent is For the realtor, but it's really meaningful for me as the owner. That's a six figure difference. So I'll just give you my real estate agent, I'll tell you, hey, if you get anything above

My asking price of like two point one, which is my happy number. But if you get anything above that, like two point two, I'll actually give you like thirty percent of the fee. So I'm selling up a piece of property now, and that's what I told my I w I just right after the the pot. I went and called her right away. I go Hey, how about this? Yeah, I didn't do thirty percent. That's crazy, but I did more. I I did more than the six percent. So you uh you messed that one up a little bit, but that's okay. Well, but but but the thing is is like even

I I don't remember what you think you said additional dollar, right? Each additional dollar past that is like Yeah, you said like ten percent. I think you even said like you'd buy this person a burqa bag. You said something like crazy. I had a negative intellective too. No, I said and if you don't get me the price that you comped me when you when you won this listing. Okay, there has to be some incentive or disincentive if you don't live up to your word. W what real estate agents do is on the way in They're like

This will be great. I've done such similar sales. I think we can get you what price do you think? Oh yeah, I think we can get you that price. And then afterwards, two weeks later, they're like Oh, just the market is so you know, right now, you know, the thing is blah blah blah. And then then then they're just neging you and they're trying to reduce your expectations so that When an offer comes in, you'll take it, whatever it is,'cause they just want to turn the deal over. Right,'cause they're They're getting three percent on two million bucks. They don't really care if it's two point if it's two million and fifty thousand or two million. They they'd rather just get the deal done.

And so I knew that they do that neging, so up front when I said when he's promising me the world I said, All right, cool, but if you don't do it, you gotta buy my wife this bag. And um He was like laughing and I was like I let it sit there for a second. He's like Oh, you're for real? And I was like, Yeah. He's like, Okay, deal. And then literally when the we were g we were coming to do the deal, he's like

I really don't want to buy your wife that bag. Let me go back to them and see if I can get more. And he got an extra like thirty thousand dollars af after that uh you know, that last comment. So Well the reason why it broke my frame was because these are like A realtor is like uh you you think like well For some reason you think this is just the law, or like there is no negotiating. Like this is how it's always been done and I must do it this way. I'm just gonna and and when I was thinking about it, I was like, No, that The way that he actually said is

One hundred percent better. I didn't realize that I could like question them. Right. Do you know what I mean? And there's actually like What's crazy is there's people who do that with the IRS as well. So for example Sean Parker, I believe, is the guy who created he either created or he was uh important with helping create it with opportunity opportunity zones and real estate. Yep. And like I remember like reading about opportunity zones and I'd be like,

Oh, Sean Parker created. I'm like, Wait, what? And I guess like the story is as he was Young, he was still in his twenties. And he convinced the government that it's wise to invest into opportunity zones, which is uh real estate that's in areas that are impoverished or or we want them to be better. And I'm like how ballsy of that.

Kid to go and convince the IRS or the government that this is the right move. And I and I love like stories like that. And uh that that was it was a wild story. Let's do a couple more before we before we finish. So you said owning real estate with your business. What's this one? Yeah, so another great example, right? So Sam said, Okay, what if I have a million dollars in business profits? Like what can I do to lower my tax bill? Just buying your office building, or if you have a physical building connected to anything you're doing, whether it's your office, whether you have a retail location, if you own that real estate,

you can use depreciation um to offset twenty, thirty percent of the purchase price. as a business lost that year. So which is why you'll see a lot of old school businesses actually own their properties, they're not just renting. Since you just save so much money.

Um People take this, you can also do this with cars. and you know, buy a vehicle attached to your business, you have the whole like insanity where you can actually Depreciate. More of

the purchase price if your car weigh over six thousand pounds. Which is insane and why you have the whole like GWAG and tax write off meme. Um but yeah, owning realistic if your business is massive. That's like the classic like immigrant story, which is like uh a mom and pop like came here from Vietnam and then they bought they just they eventually bought their corner store building And then

they the the building becomes worth significantly more than the corner store. And then they bothered you again. And the G Wagon. Like again, ta like business owners were already very favored as were real estate developers. But when Trump was in office, he actually took it to the next level with the tax cuts and jobs act.

that basically doubled those benefits. It gave an extra benefit to business owners where they get to deduct twenty percent of their income called qualified business income deduction. And it allowed real estate developers Um, and and your boy Nick Huber talks about it all the time, to do what's called bonus depreciation and depreciate twenty to thirty percent of the purchase price up front.

Um so Even though the code is already written this way, there's always new incentives to further make it even better for business owners and real estate developers. Let's do some of these uh other things. You you you had a good thing on happiness. I want to read it to you. Basically you were like happiness It's not that complicated. Uh what is the kind of

What are the four things that that actually matter when it comes to happiness. Yeah, I mean look, after I sold my company, I spent two years traveling, chilling, you know, I was like, Wow, you know, we spent all our lives waiting to like retire. What if I just lived a retired life now? Um And a lot of it was like, Okay, fine, what are my happiness triggers?

And I found for me was very, very simple. Um the two Two like critical things for like my environment were Plenty of time outdoors, ideally with sunlight. Like constant movement.

Like Sam didn't believe me when I told him I walked twenty thousand steps a day I did produce receipts. Um Doing work. That is an insane amount. Three and a half years. It's just it's just what keeps me keeps me going. My my trailing ninety days'cause we had the baby was uh thirty one hundred steps a day. Yeah, that to me that's misery. Like I I just need to I need to be in motion. What do you what do you do to get those twenty thousand steps? Like do you have did you like replace meetings with walking meetings or something? What what did you do in your walking meetings, phone calls, like um

a big part of my routine playing sports every day. Though again, like it's winter here and that's why I hate winter,'cause like now I'm not getting my outdoor time and my walking has come down a lot. Um But yeah, so happiness triggered movement. Uh

being able to spend time outdoors. Having a higher purpose for me, that's work with meaning, but for other people, you know, it's religion. It's just something that is like bigger than themselves. And four is like relationships that count. I can like simplify my life to these four components and like reprint like That's all it takes for at least me to just be very, very happy.

Are you dating anyone? Uh not right now. You'd probably crush it though and that Department, right? Yeah, I look I mean again, I I enjoy I enjoy being single.

Uh, but at the same time, look, I'm thirty four years old and the parental pressure is ramping up. We'll we'll see how it goes. You're like I can defeat the IRS? But not not the parental pressure. Yeah. How old were you, Sam, when you when you and Sarah got together? She was twenty.

Two and I was twenty five. Oh damn, you're young. It didn't feel that way because I went pretty crazy between like nineteen and twenty four. Like I I I I did some fun things. I'm see, I've actually drank a beer with you. There's not a lot of people that at this chapter of your life that have done that. But yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's true. And I had a lot of fun. I did this cross country motorcycle trip and after I just sold a company and I didn't sell for a lot of money. I had like fifty thousand dollars in my bank account when I was like twenty three riding my

Motorcycle across country telling people I just sold my company on Tinder. Was this apartment list or whatever? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was two apartment lists. Yeah. And I and I just hosted a conference, so I had money and like it was I was the coolest guy ever for like eight weeks. And then I met my wife like right when I got home. Yeah. Um But uh yeah, we've been together for a while. Uh it's honestly awesome. I like I I don't even like talking about this because I remember when we got married we had to go to like and talk to a priest'cause we got married in the Catholic church.

And I was like telling her, I was like Down the priest I was like, Yeah, we uh You know, we're a good partnership. We talk about like business and stuff all the time. He's like, Well, what about love? And so like I don't even like mentioning this, but like Basically. dating someone who is smart.

and you eventually want to marry, it's actually makes you more money. That's not the most important thing, but I think like what I've learned is having a good relationship, I think actually was the greatest financial decision I made. I mean you're not you're probably less distracted, right? Like people in People in relationships are like eventually like once are kind of more stable, I think. I remember when I was

When I was selling my business, I was negotiating with the dude who like runs General Atlantic big big private equity fund and he's like an old school guy. He's like, Are you married? I was like, No, kids, no. It's like I don't like that. I can't trust single people. You have nothing to lose. I I don't like it. I would feel much better about this deal if you were married and had a family,'cause you're scared or you'd be more nervous, more scared of stuff.

You're like for for two hundred fifty million dollars, I can get a thirty day fiance right now, sir. Whatever you need. Yeah. Yeah. So Sean, when your wife goes out of town, are you like me where you're like uh What the hell am I supposed to do? Like what do I do? What do I do? It's three hours of heaven. But anything beyond three hours, I'm like Oh this is boring. Like this is this sucks. Like it's so quiet in here. Like I started walking around in circles like my dog or something. I don't know what to do. I want to talk about one more thing.

We have a large Indian listenership. You're welcome. Yeah. Thank you, Sean. Uh I feel like everyone in my life is is like all my best friends are Indian. You're like going on a tear on social media saying uh like Particularly you're like

you know, East Asian people. We've got the stereotype of of us not having a lot of muscle. In reality, it's just because we eat like shit. Or what what did you say? The Indian diet is just by default not great for building strength, for staying in shape. And things are really bad right now. Like an Indian person living in North America, right? So we have the same exact like Ubringing, whatever.

Is anywhere between four to six times more likely to have heart disease, diabetes, like it's just It's real bad and now that I guess I have more of a voice in social media and people are listening. I feel like It's something worth talking about since I don't know, like if I if

If I could have some impact over the next ten, twenty, thirty years to change that. That would go a long way. But the hardest part is there's this like cultural Like the you know, deniability where Indian people get really mad when you tell them that. Um if

Every even even now, I mean you know. If you try tweeting out the union diet is like traditionally unhealthy or something. Getting super, super angry about it. But

Ask anyone who's ever I don't know. Do you ever count macro, Sam, or Sean? Yeah, I I I I use my fitness pal every day for like the past four years. Okay, cool. So there's not one person Who's ever counted macros?

Who will fight the Indian diet's healthy. Like not one. It's impossible. It is actually impossible. She track it to to see it. Um then it produces this passionate response. I mean, I ended up commenting on an Indian cricketer's physique. And an Indian newspaper, the Hindustan Times, ran this like article about me saying Indian American entrepreneur fat shame the light cricketer.

And I have to like turn off my Instagram because I got hundreds, thousands of comments like just attacking me, my family and everything I stood for. Because I'm not being like, you know, a proud Indian or whatever. So That's hilarious, man.

I went to an Indian grocery. Sam, but you probably don't know this. There's actually just like Indian grocery shops. Sep we have our own separate C. Okay, so Most of you don't really realize this, but if you walk in Every single aisle literally is the shittiest food that you could possibly eat.

And I went in there and I was like You know, Jim Carrey and The Truman Show when he's like Wait, the sky is actually like a wall? Like what what is this? What what's happening in here? Yeah. And I was literally like running down the I was like, What's happening in here? This is fried, it's all fried. Why is everything fried? Literally not one thing. And and no protein, right? It's like fried and zero protein. It's cream. With some fat.

And like That's everything. And you just see the moms just putting things in there for their kids. I'm like, no, don't do this shit, man. This is so bad. It's literally so bad. And to the point where I was like Should someone create like a Just done better for you.

Indian food that goes into the Indian grocery so the the only skew in the store That is not like deep fried terrible everything or like, you know, just canned galobjum or something. It's like this terrible, terrible food. Um and that's not even like the home food. That's like the grocery store, right? So if you're in that's like garbage in, garbage out, it's like If your inputs are all terrible.

Then the outputs are also gonna be terrible. Uh why? They just don't care? It's not part of the tr it's just not part of the culture. Protein is just not really deeply embedded in in Indian food. And it it it is it is in small parts, but it's just not really a big deal. And it's compounded when you live in America. Like, think about it this way, right? I joked about this, but like I think the spelling bee is the only time I see Indian people on ESPN. Obviously an exaggeration. That's the ultimate burn, dude. That's so good. Yeah.

I mean look, well I as an AD person, I can say it. I don't think you can say it, Sam, you'd get canceled. Uh but yeah, it's like it's it it it's it's really not good. What I think is optimistically my generation, we're seeing people being aware of this, where We're seeing this changing. A lot of South Asian people, right? They're always like even like Bology was on a podcast, he's like, Oh yeah, I did like as well as I could for my salvation genetics. I actually think that's kind of bullshit. I think salvation genetics are honestly Not bad at all.

for people who work out and and kinda eat clean and whatever, I mean All the Indian friends I have that have put in the effort have seen results. But the whole stereotype I think starts because of the diet. Yeah, I've been on an Indian food kick lately and it's been all like coconut milk and so I've just not been using that or coconut cream. It's just all creamy cream. And

And and it tastes so good going in, but it does not feel wonderful. Indian parents when they feed you and'cause I'll I'll be like, Mom, why did you give us this? And she's like, This is good for you. And I'm like, How is this good for you? And she'll be like, gives you energy. And I think they literally took the idea of calories as like, you know, calories like a measure of energy. It's like they were like Gives you energy. This carbohydrate, you're gonna have so much energy. And I'm like

Not that's not how it works. And then even though like oh Dal. Dol has tons of protein. It's like you know lentils, basically. It's like Yeah, but has like you know The macros on the dollar like twenty grams of protein.

thirty five grams of of carbs and then you add butter, ghee, and like oil to the thing to make it taste good. It's like, Well, that's not really gonna help then, right? Like that And doll is your protein in the rest of your meal, right? So you have all this other stuff and you're like, Oh, for protein I'll have doll. That's a great example and Yeah, like Indian people will like the Indian Express actually ran an article being like, Yep, we thought Doll had a lot of protein too. Like the awareness is increasing now. But it's it's pretty slow. Wha what's it called? A h is it uh Holly or Holy Holy Holy A hol a holy celebration and it was uh

non with ghe is is uh is a ghe, so like that uh clear clear butter and then uh Tons of uh buttered. Buttered chicken, but instead of chicken it was cheese. Oh god. And then it was like And then it was like the dessert was fried dough in maple syrup. What do you guys think about job? But it's delicious, but it's delicious. Like don't Yeah, it yeah, yeah, it's good for you because it made me smile and smiling is good for you. But uh it it didn't feel great, uh two hours later.

Yeah. And Here's what's changing though is now Indian people are really wealthy. There's four million Indian people, they have an average income of a hundred thousand dollars. The wealthiest ethnic group. So I do think things will change. Like it used to not be a very viable market, but now there's a lot of fuzz and it's a

very big market. So I think all of these businesses also make Good commercial sense. If you're reading our comment section on YouTube. Um The most recurring comment is

Sean, you look great. Sean, are you losing weight? Sean, that beard looks wonderful. So Sean's gonna be a sex I'm gonna do. Ten dollars on Fiverr, you can get that. Uh anybody can get that for you. Go pay five go pay on Fiverr you can get people saying how good you look on YouTube, I guess. Everyone's commenting on Sean's lux. Uh except for like they'll either they'll make fun of his outfit because he wears like a Mickey Mouse t shirt. Or they'll be like Sean, your workout program, it's working so well. Like people are just sucking up to them so much. Yeah. Well.

Yep. Thank you. And where should people find you? Where how do they g go and use your product that helps them with taxes? Yeah, absolutely. We're called Carry. We're at carry money.com. And if anyone wants to set up a solo four one K or just get better. And what they pay in taxes, check us out. Appreciate ya. Thank you. Thanks for coming, man. Sweet man. This was fun.

I feel like I can rule the world, I know I can be what I want to I put my law in it like my day's off On the roadless travel never looking back

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