Meet The Man Behind Conor McGregor’s +$650M Empire

what was reported, I think, was thirty to Connor and a hundred to Floyd. Was that what was reported? I think it was h certainly higher for Connor than I know. And and you know, for Floyd I would imagine it would be Probably around there or higher, just depending on what he did again. Wow. You really think that hundred million was true. Well, I mean I I was on Yeah, I'd say.

Just under a hundred, right? When it's all said and done. So And that's his part. So again, he has a a part we had a partner in UFC, so And I won't get into the specifics, but yeah, so from Floyd's side, it's very reasonable to think that he could have pulled in a hundred. Um assuming that he he didn't take it all.

Feel like I can root Well I know Be what I want to A I I see all these interviews with you. I see you on the UFC like behind the scenes stuff and you're always wearing slick suits.

And you're dressed nice right now, but I just saw that you're drinking out of a Stanley mug. Just to remind everyone at home that No matter how fancy someone is, we all have a little basicness inside of us. No, I always say like, you know, it's business much like sports, you have to you know, you wear your uniform. to play the game, right? But but we're all human at the end of the day. We all have our casual clothes or You know, or or at home. I've only seen one interview you uh and uh I've watched a bunch of interviews. There's only one interview that you weren't wearing a suit. You're wearing like Lululemon and a hat. I'm gonna have to switch it up now, man. That's uh you know switch it up.

But it's a pleasure to meet you guys, man. You should zig and zag the other way, because I think a lot of people in the like agents, talent management, they are all like very slick looking. You should go the other way, right? Like um you should go at athleisure as your main thing because you were an athlete. So I feel like you can pull that off and a lot of guys in that space will all look like suits. I'm gonna I'm gonna have to, man. I'm gonna have to to make people remember that I was actually one of them before. I became a suit. Exactly. There well, there there was some bum out there in San Francisco who was the first person to wear just like, you know, pajama bottoms and a T shirt instead of a suit. You you just that that's that that's your burden now, I guess. I'm from Cali too, so I gotta start just rocking flip flops, you know what I mean? Just just uh all good with the flip flops and the shorts.

In Silicon Valley, uh it's like the opposite. Like I remember when I first moved here, I went to like this nice kind of like club speak easy type thing. And everybody's waiting in line and a guy walks up with a hoodie and you know, it just looks completely disheveled and the bouncers know like All right, this guy's either homeless or a billionaire. We don't know which one. We gotta just err on the side of maybe this is like the next Mark Zuckerberg. Let him in, let him in first and go that way. I realize oh shit. The status game is different here.

That's funny. I heard a lot about that. Yeah. Certainly uh counterculture if you go to business. The noble b the New York The New York hustles all suit and tie, whereas the San Francisco hustles definitely Flip flops and and holes in your T shirt, you know? So your introduction here is it's it's it's there's you've done a bunch of stuff. So you so you've started Paradigm, which is uh an uh you just call it an agency, a sports agency, sports management company. I'd say it's a sports management and entertainment platform.

what it is. Platform. All right. With uh the most famous guy being Con McGregor, but I also think you have Izzy. Do you have one more champion on there? I thought you had three. So Izzy's a former client of ours, but definitely was an amazing client while he was with us. Uh Michael Bisbang. I think Steve One of Boy Thompson, Michael Venom Page, Rico Verhoven. uh past clients, uh obviously like Chris Lytle, who's actually one of my first clients. That's how I got into the sport. Um but yeah, very fortunate to work with some of the the greatest spiders of all time. No.

Yeah, so just a bunch of ballers. But then you also co founded Proper Twelve, which We're gonna ask you all about it, but according to the headlines, it was like a six hundred million dollar exit. So you've had some maybe even more success there than the main thing. What's cool is um so you you run a a talent kind of like let's say well part of your business is talent management talent agency. And that's cool. There's a bunch of our audience that also owns agencies, which I think is great. But what I liked about you is that you have also kind of the venture side. So you're like creating

Brands and business ventures. off the talent. And we've talked about these kind of creator brands. In the past, we had uh you know, Mr Beast on here and he's got all these kind of like feastables, he's got other Uh you know. corporate brands underneath it. We had uh Instagram star uh Danny Austin come on and she's got

Divi, like a hair care brand that's doing, you know, way more money than she can get kind of just in in versus like influencer blind brand deals. And so what I like is that you've got And Rob Deerdick. Yeah, Rob Deerdick. You've got both. And that's been a theme that we've kind of been been playing with. So I think we'll we'll try to pop around a little bit, but I I definitely bless you. I mean I'd be remiss if I didn't give you those two. Sorry.

Oh wow. What a gentleman. Look at that. John may edit it out and and then that's not. That's that's a character shower right there. I'm like I'm talking if Sam's dying over there, I'm gonna finish my point. I don't care. He's good. He'll come back. Yeah, exactly. No, no, I appreciate the recognition. Look at I mean the we we certainly I feel we're one of the early Um you know. platform, slash agencies, if you will, that really

So not only um you know, an opportunity, but more so wanted to do more for our clients, right? We wanted to disrupt respective industry, but also think far beyond that and not just think transactional. And for me In mixed martial arts. It was an underserved Mark in

We wanted to not only advocate for our clients, but advocate for the sport, really push Fighter Fighter um not only earnings. Uh higher and higher, which still have a long way to go. But they've come a long way from when we first started.

And back in two thousand and nine in in the sport. We were very fortunate because we came in Right before the first Um, you know, the rights deal was was actually paid. You know, the UFC was paying to be on spike prior to the Fox deal and and as Yeah.

most people know that's the main economic driver of any professional sports organization. Whether it's the you know NFL, the NBA And now obviously from from from uh a mixed martial arts perspective, the UFC. They were paying Spike to put themselves on TV? That's a that's publicly known. They were actually, you know

paying for that airtime. So the the original Ultimate Fighter and then all all that was broadcast on Spike back in the day. Um yeah, they they were not only funding their own production, but they were paying for that airtime and and Fox was that really first Pay deal. that the UFC uh garnered uh you know and and it which was a uh a monumental uh milestone for the sport and and for the promotion and

sport of mixed martial arts, you know, is is It wouldn't be here without the UFC, which is the catalyst for where the sport is today. Now you have other promotions that are competing. And promotion is very synonymous with leagues, right? So when you talk about leagues Um, you know, it's there there's certain terminologies within the sports world that are very similar, although there's a lot of differences as well, right? In terms of

You know. athletes in NFL NBA being employees and then fighters being independent contractors. So For us, we saw an opportunity of of it not only being the fastest growing sport and an underserved market for the athletes, but then also really thinking beyond just management. How can we create you know, um, more value for the clients and

You know, it ch it takes a special c and a special personality like Conor McGregor, so I was very fortunate to sign him ten years ago. And you know, and and we had a vision and he was very, very bullish about that vision as well. L let's rewind let's rewind to that. So you uh your story's kind of the I'll give the the first part very fast. So you're You play football at U C L A.

And I'm getting injured. you move into Uh Management side of things, you got you got some kind of football players as your first clients. And then

You branch into MMA and you discover Connor McGregor. Can you tell the story? How did you How'd you discover Connor? What was what was his situation like at that time and uh What was those kind of the the first meeting? Yeah, take us back to those days. Yeah, sure.

So um I think Taking it back to the first days, the early days is really working with guys like Just slide. Right. Getting into the business.

Um, when working with a guy like that. I got to work with him for one fight and he retired. So then it was being able to sign Michael Bisbing, which was a massive opportunity for me and And someone that I'm so proud of, not only as a as a client, but as a friend as well. Went on to be the first British Uh champion. First champ UFC champion from

uh from the UK. And you know, he was a pioneer of mixed martial arts for all the up and coming athletes within Europe, you know, Ireland included. So Um, I was very fortunate enough to start to work with Michael and and other clients as well earlier in in my in my uh And and in the UFC and mixed martial arts in particular. Um, and so when I signed Connor, it was when he first came on.

to to the to the UFC C right. He was fighting in the regional promotion in Europe. Cage warriors, which is still around and still uh you know, they let's call it mid major, if you will. And these are these are to some extent the professional um promotions, but they're feeder programs to the larger promotions, if you will. And um he had just signed to the UFC and

We were uh introduced uh uh, interestingly enough, like through Facebook. And yeah, at the time it was He was, you know, looking at Signing with one of the Agencies in the sport.

And I got an opportunity to uh pitch him and And Coach his coach, John Kavanaugh. as to why I felt that we would be the best fit for him. So You gotta, you know, put no put your best foot forward and

And give it a shot and and hopefully you win that business. And I was fortunate enough that Um you know, we got first opportunity actually to work with him heading into There's

Yeah, at first spite. We were say, Okay, well let's pause now. Let's talk after this first spice. So he beats Marcus Brimage. Was that the uh fifty fifty D baby, yeah, that's the famous line that by and After that, his second fight was his US debut actually against Max Holloway, and we we started to work With with one another.

um heading into that fight. And so um the rest is history. But one of the things, you know, we recognize not only his athletic ability, but then he had Special a special knowledge talent in inside the octagon. But you could tell he was very special and charismatic. He had that it factor that you know, is is I think it's it's once in a it's once in a generation type of uh of an athlete as well, not only from a physic, but a quality perspective. And so No, the sky was gonna be the

The limit. Um in terms of what we could do together. And was that I mean I've I've seen all the the there's these older interviews where Connor still has acne, he has no tattoos and he says, like, you know, Mark my words, you will see me in the UFC, you will see me as a champion one day. And then coming up leading up to that Marcus fight and then I think it was Dennis Silver in Boston, if I remember correctly, like in the early days, you still see that he has some type of star power on camera.

But behind the scenes uh even at a young age in his ear twenties, did you notice that uh the confidence and the star power was there just in your normal hanging out sessions? Yeah, you could definitely see His charisma. behind the scenes and uh

You know, he was like I said, he was Very witty. Um Very, very confident. But also very engaging. You know, I think one of the things I always

Tell people is that you know. Majority of people in the world uh know who Conor McGregor is. And I would argue that most of them have never seen him fight. They've actually seen more of his interviews and And and um and him talking because you know

When he talks, you can't take your eyes off it off, right? He's just So fun and And whether you love him or hate him, you're watching him. You know, and that's that's I think what makes them special. Yeah, you find De Connor is kinda like we've had guys on this podcast that are like

Yeah, I discovered Uber. I was like the fifth investor in Uber, or you know, like the early investors in Facebook or something like that, right? It's like a It's like an angel investment that goes on to become this is what do we call it's like a unicorn, right? It's like this billion dollar brand that you discover at that early age where where other people pitching him for business at that time'cause I remember that first Brimage fight, there was like a hype around him.

Like even his entrance entrance, people were like really excited about him and and I didn't know who he was at the time, so I don't even know how people were so excited about the guy. At that time. So I imagine that You know, there were other agents trying to win that business at that time. Um

Do you have any good fun anecdotes or stories of like Your hustle at that time to get'em or Was it like No, people it was kind of like it uh Like

an ignored asset. People didn't realise that this was gonna be that he was gonna be a big deal and they w It really w What it didn't look like it was like this hotly contested thing. No, I definitely think that people were were um You know, hot on him. But

I think everybody was pitching him on the same idea. It was more transactional. And I think what we're we're Um I stood out surely was because I I had a broader vision. I had a broader vision of creating I P, you know, and creating me and content, but also creating Uh, business ventures, right? And I really was bullish in on that idea. Uh, and I I remember even when I first launched Paradigm 2009, my business plan. was not only to be the best in class from a management perspective, but build

Uh clients, media and IP. Where whereby building more brand equity for them and that will yield not only more anti revenues from a sponsorship perspective, but increase their value from a From their playing contract or perspective athletically

And also leads To to business ventures. And You know I I was laughed at when I first had that business plan. It's too busy, focus on what you could do, you know, like uh and and I think that that's what

He had that vision for himself as well. And Um it was even if you think about what we did back in Two thousand seventeen with the Floyd fight. I mean, everybody thought we were crazy. You know, that that fight was never gonna happen.

Everybody. Doubted us. Everybody even Some of those ended up. doing the deal and partnering with us. So ultimately You know, we had to believe in ourselves and and more importantly go out and actually execute, right? Because you could have dreams, you can have visions, you could

start something, but if you don't execute successfully It means nothing. And now that trend is common. Those exhibitions now are commonplace. You see uh everybody now taking place in these exhibitions and there's a appetite from a consumer perspective for these unique matchups. where people are are uh matched up from from different sports just uh to compete in combat sports. Um, and then we even launched our venture on the back of that. We launched proper

Two thousand eighteen. And so No, again, at that time I think it was maybe co uh George Clooney and And uh maybe Puff Daddy at the time, you know, but I don't think anybody else. Now it's like spirits, everybody has a has some type of a of a a liquor brand that they're they're hocking in. And then ventures is commonplace as well. So

You know, to me I'm proud of the fact that we had this vision that we were able to execute more importantly, you know, because Um it's very hard to do. It's hand to hand combat everyday entrepreneurship. I uh I wanna ask you about the proper twelve stuff, but before that So like I grew up watching Enterage and so you see like Ari Emanuel or Ari Gold

dealing with like crazy young actors who have money's and money and it's like, you know, drugs and sex. And then ballers, it's like uh drugs and sex as well. But the difference between uh you know, ballers w uh what's an NFL. But then there's the difference, I imagine with

UFC fighters where it's you're not An actor. You're not A player. You're gonna get out there in your underwear and fight to the death in front of millions of people.

Can you like tell me a little bit about the difference between managing someone like Connor or Izzy? Like these like'cause I imagine the Are they crazy? What's that mi mindset like on a daily basis and that mentality Particularly when it comes to business. Are they

Have you found that you've have to hold them back from being so aggressive sometimes or or what's that like with that type of athlete? Well, first of all, I don't think They're crazy per se. So it's not, you know, because of the profession or the sport that they're in that that they tend to be maybe a little bit Um You know. Crazy.

So to speak, right? I mean like when I say crazy I mean like h high risk. Depending on the field you're in, it's That's subjective, what you think high risk and not most totally most people that come from let's say

If you're a neurosurgeon, you're gonna think the combat points is super high risk, right? But Ultimately I think every human being's different. There's certainly there's certainly Uh when you're that competitive. You're gonna be driven, you're gonna be more aggressive. And I think I see it even in business at the same

At the highest level. There's There's that. Chip on the shoulder. There's that edge that But

every high level competitor has, whether it's an athlete in different sports, or whether it's a businessman or woman. And at the highest level of the respective field. So Obviously business argument varies, right? So if you're talking about an institutional investor versus a professional athlete that marries. But even within the sport, you have happy to have a very high level business accuracy. Honor's not.

train from an institutional perspective. He didn't go get his MBA. He didn't He doesn't have that. that academic background, if you will. Right? But he's a very natural businessman. Well what's a what's a story as an example of I mean the story's proper twelve. I mean could have easily taken a check from a sponsorship perspective and been so short sighted.

As opposed to putting up our own capital initially Finding the right operating partner, finding the right strategic capital supply chain route to market, going out and creating our own. working without getting the sponsorship check for X amount of posts or Why amount of appearances, if you will. for an ultimate windfall that changes life and is generational wealth. So

That in itself is a great example. Do you guys did you guys have like Jameson like, hey we wanna sponsor you and you were like, dude, fuck this, Connor, let's do our own thing. He's always had a desire to get into whiskey. It's it's like Irish is part of their DNA, right? And his his grandfather was a was a whiskey man. And we always had the idea when we were approached by a sponsor and and it was like Do we go and pursue a sponsorship and take a check or do we just go and own our own? business. And when you study the category and looked at the TAM, you looked at the opportunity, you're like, we could this is right for disruption. We actually

could really come in and do something here, right? And so That is that's a perfect example of his natural business accuracy. Right. It's hard to do that. Especially at that level. He wasn't making You know.

Yeah, uh a ton of money, yeah, up until we got to the Floyd flight, which is by the way, when we announced our entry into the market. We announced our entry into the whiskey market in our post five press conference. Yeah, I remember he's he's holding the glass at the post. We started though the process in two thousand fourteen and we were doing a lot of research and development and pivoting from different groups and And ultimately we we we found the right You know Formula, if you will, on the right team, et cetera.

Right. Um and and the rest is history. And that to me takes a lot of Lot of intelligence for an athlete to do that's not Trained. How to have the experience of building a business.

And you know, more moreover, the patience, right, to really bet on himself. How much of your guys' capital did you put up? to get it off the ground. And do you remember what your first year sales was w w what was? Well I I'll tell you I can't disclose all the information just due to strict confidentiality provisions that exist with our partners and our acquirer. So I I gotta be safe. But I can tell you And we put up

Probably a few hundred thousand of our own capital. Initially. I can say that, right? Um and that's you know, I mean that most of that went to lawyers, if you will, just before you even got started. So Um

But it's like strategically, I think the way we set it up, but we have great partners, you know, one of our partners is Uh is an operating genius and is a wizard in the spirits business, Ken Austin. So I gotta give him a shout out because I Yeah, he had another company, right? I mean he did Avione. Then he probably would done Terramata now, he's been the Lolo, John J'

He's a he's a Jeep when it comes to spirits business, you know? And when you find people like that, are you doing just like a like a thirty, thirty, thirty, like you know, you guys all split equity. Well, I eat. I can't go into the details of the cap table. I wish I could, but again, there's strong confidentiality provisions in all agreement. But it was a it's a fair Deal and I think everybody's happy in the end. But moreover You bring on a black belt that knows what they're doing. At the end of the day That's part of operating a business and being successful. It's like you know what you don't know, but essentially

No matter What Cap table looks like You gotta make sure you bring on that the right expertise, right? From operational perspective. have to have all the right ingredients to be able to execute successfully.

So Even with something like that, let's say, uh just to put this in perspective. So the decision to say, Well, we could just take a straight sponsorship deal, get a check. Make a few Instagram posts. And and you know, cash that check.

Um versus we're gonna do the entrepreneurial work and actually build a brand. The payoff difference, I imagine. You can tell me from wrong. I think it's Probably a hundred to one.

Would that be Approximate so like You know, uh if you just say okay, over a few years we would have a uh a kind of an alcohol sponsor and we're we're doing, you know, kind of these We scheduled posts with them. Or commerci with them or whatever it may be.

I think it's probably something like fifty to a hundred X. bigger return by doing the work. Is that I would say it's a more it's a multiple of that. You think multiple. A few hundred door. How much would a sponsor should have been? I mean I mean back in that back at that time

You know, when we first started the process, it would have been like two two hundred fifty thousand, something like that. That would have been a big one. By the time we launched, she probably was in the seven bigger range. Yeah. In terms of sponsors sponsorship annually, right? That's like an annual deal. Annual deal, right? Yeah. Okay, so a million, some some millions per year in order to promote a whiskey.

versus hundreds of millions. Yeah, exactly. So I would say I would say like it was You know, you could run any you know, analysis even and MTV and look at like How we won.

And one big. You talked about the Mayweather McGregor thing, how that came to like how that nobody thought that that was gonna happen and then it It actually happened. And it was kind of amazing. I remember Vividly, where I was. I remember I was on I was in Australia and I had to get up at a certain time to I was at a bar at like five in the morning or something like that to watch that fight. Um, but I also remember the build up. Like there was the kind of back and forth, almost flirting on

On social media. Talking talking trash to each other to try to generate interest. I think both guys Floyd and Connor probably the two smartest businessmen ever to Come through combat sports.

And they kinda knew, okay. This is the right dance partner. for us to like execute something orders of magnitude bigger than what we could do. And um

And I remember at the time it was seen as Almost like the the Elon Musk's Mark Zuckerberg thing today, where it's like, Well, it'd be crazy if it happened, but there's no way. I mean, just to get all these people to get them everyone to agree. Um seemed impossible. Can you take us back? Like uh, you know, like I see all these videos of you like hanging out at Connor's house or whatever, and like you got you know, the behind the scenes stuff. There hadn't been just like a couch conversation where you guys are like, Okay, could we do this? How could we do this?

What What was the early days like before it came to fruition? So I to your point, I think you know, you have to the smarter

And shabby. businessmen in combat sports that really understood You know, the modern day fandom of both sports, right? And early days that he wants to do it. And then it would be shot down by UFC, by by

members of the media, by whoever that just doubted that it would ever happen. Um and I think that the The banter is really What allowed it to happen because once they started going back and forth, and you could actually see the level of engagement and interest. From a market perspective, and from a consumer perspective.

It it was hard to deny it. Right. It was hard to deny it because it was like This is real. It's viable. It it's a it's a win win scenario. And a win for all parties would be involved.

Why not? Right. The fans want it, the fighters want it, and and moreover, the numbers were speaking for themselves from an analytics perspective. So that allowed us to really use what the two fighters were intelligently doing on a very instinctive level Right?

There wasn't planned. There wasn't scripted. It was very instinctive, but moreover I think well what My job is is to look at the data and be like, Right, there's something very viable here. There's something that You know, you have to be able to take and

continue to to to advocate and push for your client because you could effectively have a successful business opportunity. Even for the UFC. And so that I think it took them a while to come around, but eventually they did because they realized There was just such

Amazing and intense interest around this event. that it it was real. It wasn't a gimmick. It was something that everybody wanted to see. And so I think that was uh credit to them too because again it went against all their their their normal business practice. They've never done something like that before. And it took

You know, I think For them to see the substance of it all. then move forward with us. And ultimately it was a huge success. I mean over four million buys. I mean, I think there's probably there's a Something there was some um report I remember receiving. Oh yeah, like hundreds of millions of illegal streams. I mean like

And we still did over four million buys. You know what I mean? Like so can you imagine if like it was the most bootlegged fight ever. Yeah. If we would have just been able to even just plug some of those holes and how many more buys we would have had, right? But I mean it was such a Com commercial success. I mean Can I ask you? A quick question about those buys. Yeah. So you said you said four million buys. I'm not I'm not attacking this

strictly uh about this fight, but When I see pay per view numbers like what the headlines are. I think most of'em are complete bullshit. I think that when a fighter says like For example, I remember Floyd has multiple times said he's earned nine figures, so a hundred plus million off of one one

Fight. And uh I'm I think I've seen Connor say I I think he was just talking shit but he's like oh I'm making this much money off this um Uh Cowboy Saronny fight. I think those are nonsense. And the reason I think they're nonsense is it's almost like a rapper bragging about how much money they have. It's like part of the brain.

You're not He's part of your brand. And also no one's incentivized like Dana or Showtime or HBO. They're not incentivized to like tell the public that. Yeah, this dude's full of shit. We gave him two million dollars. He didn't earn twenty million dollars off this thing. Oh well let me just That's unloaded, because there's certain elements of that, you know, could be hypothetically true. But for example, compensation is not fulfilled.

When you're talking about U of C particularly MMA, like but that's not fully reported what the person's really are at the highest level that you know what I mean. Oh so it's actually more It's even that true because I It's just what's reported to the commission and assuming that they don't have let's call it another agreement.

So that's that true. In terms of pay per view There's a speculation. So for example, May Mac in particular There was you know, I think There was rumours that were starting to trickle in that it did over six million buys or something to that extent. You know what I mean? But it landed in like the four three, four four range. And that's act no, that's actual, right? I mean ultimately

You know, that's Those are not fudge numbers. And so What you were hearing about what Potentially uh Connor made and Potentially Floyd made.

On our side I know it's more true. On the Floyd side, I don't know if he divulges who he splits it with or you know, what that what that looks like on his side. So I can't comment on on his, right? But UFC was our partner, so I know what they're what we're reporting for kinda Was Connors. What was reported, I think, was thirty to Connor and a hundred to Floyd. Was that what was reported? I don't think so.

But maybe. I mean Terms of what you talking about reported to the The commission or the papers. No uh no journalist ever actually like breaks that down. You know what I mean? So that's what I'm saying, like these numbers are so high. And I hear that and I've been. And and you know, for Floyd I would imagine it would be

Probably around there or higher, just depending on what he did again. Wow. You really think that hundred million was true. Well, I mean I I Connor was on Yeah, I'd say. Just under a hundred, right? When it's all said and done. So And that's his part. So again, he has a a part we had a partner in the UFC, so

And I won't get into the specifics, but yeah, so from Floyd's side, it's very reasonable to think that he could have pulled in a hundred. Um, assuming that he he didn't take it on, didn't have partners he split with. You you're a business guy. So you see what Floyd did in the boxing business, where he basically became his own promoter. Runs his own Runs his own.

Ship so that he can take the lion's share of Oh the the revenue or the the profits that come from an event. Where like in the past guys like Mike Tyson and others sort of got screwed because they're out there fighting

generating all this demand. Then they look at ten years later, they're like, where's all the money? And the promoter is basically Enrich themselves. In that way. And obviously the U of C is totally different. It's like a league, it works differently. But a guy like Connor is

Essentially as big of a brand as the US C. UFC. Uh like you know. Let's say it's debatable. They're in the same Like z the the same like air. And if Connor McGregor was to go do a fight on YouTube pay per view or whatever he wanted to do.

He could Pull the same numbers as a UFC card. without the UFC's promotion. Do you think like I guess when you see what Floyd did, do you think anybody's ever gonna do that with the UFC or in MMA where they're gonna become their own promoter and have their own shows?

I think the sport is still young and it's still evolving, right? And while The UFC is to some extent synonymous to League as a promotion, it's still Structure to some extent. You know, like prize fighting, right? There's still pay per view and even though there's rankings, sometimes you'll see the rankings are not it's not true meritocracy'cause it's still prize fighting and entertainment to some extent, right?

Um and and I think that they have Come a long way, but there's uh A long way to go in terms of Good earn.

Children. Um But the end of the day too, from a boxing perspective I think that's why boxing has been on the decline. It's so fragmented, right? And there's The end of the day there's not

uh uh uh true Promotion that's that's Stood the test of time. I know top rank's been around forever. Right, but who do they really have? Matching seems to be doing more

Obviously Premier still around and still P B C still competing, but you see it kind of fragmented, right? Canelo fight for match him one one for for a couple of fights and I spot fighting. For PBC for a fight, um And I and the difference is though, I think in boxing promotions could fight each other and and so they have to agree on that. Right. I think in MMA it's gonna continue to evolve, right? You now have

um the ability can Connor do that? Of course. I think Connor is one of probably the only person can carry his own show. It's very difficult to do, right? It's hard to go How many nine pay per view sellers are there in either sport. Not a lot. You know, it's like it's it's not that easy to do. So I think that from a from a UFC perspective, they've always looked at it as like look, we're We're building something that's sustainable. And they are

Correct in that regard, but I think that Fighters definitely should have a A bigger Uh piece of the revenues as this thing continues to grow, which I think they've come a long way. But they still have a long way to go, right? Yeah, I was gonna say, you know, uh the other

group that's trying to do their own shows is the kind of Jake Paul, Logan Paul style thing where they're doing these kind of like Kind of celebrity matches, high interest uh fights. And getting people to buy pay per views for that seems to honestly be working. I you know, like Uh I don't know what you think about those guys, but I personally used to be like, Oh, you know, kinda wrote them off as just like

Kind of like They were like in the jackass crowd of like the the YouTube generation or the Vine generation. And then they said they were gonna do this boxing thing. Who knows how seriously they'll take it. But honestly, like They've done a good job of actually like building up interest and pulling these events off and being like respectable showing up very respectably. Uh and winning several of these fights. Um

You can't hate on them, man. You can't hate on them, they're putting the time actually our client Dylan Dannis is fighting Logan Paul coming up. Dylan Dannis is your client. Oh my God. That is so funny. Are you the genius behind his uh current marketing strategy? Is that your did you sign off on that? No, no, no. That's all Dylan. Uh I th I thought you might have been his client. There's a there's a famous video where Nate Diaz and Dylan are getting into it and Nate through a beer on Dylan and I saw you in the video trying to be like the the father in the whole like you're like, Hey Nate, Dylan, could you guys please walk away? Did didn't work out. My kids didn't listen. Yeah. Uh, but no, I you know, it you gotta give those guys credit. I mean, look, it I think they're They're they're putting in time in their craft. They're they're going in there and

And they're not only, you know, taking a shot, risk it, you know, I could argue that they're not really doing it against real boxers. That's true. You know, I think they're being more strategic and But you know, again Credit has to Go to Connor, right? Who created that trend? Who started that? It was us versus Mayweather and then now

I mean, even if Floyd goes and fights someone else, he doesn't get the same result without it being another two Two A side guys facing each other. And while I give all of them credit too, I don't think you've seen this blockbuster event that anybody's been Open for so At the end of the day, though.

There's a market though. There's an appetite from a consumer to go look at You know. Me and you, Sean. I don't I think maybe we may only get a hundred people that tune in, but nonetheless, there's a market there. Dreaming on YouTube. Sam is gonna have to pay. Under you underestimate how many people want to see me get my ass booked. Uh, my friend. I think you're right. You're right. So what are the they've been begging to get Connor and that there I I think that the that's the white whale that that Jake Paul's chasing. What is the percent chance that a fight between Connor McGregor and Jake Paul ever happens?

I mean Right now Connor's focused on Michael Chandler. I'm saying ever, ever. I I can tell you Floyd Floyd the rematch is is there. Logan Paul wants to fight him. Jake Paul. Not zero. Yeah, it's not zero. It's just not. Top of mine right now, right? So you need to take off your sports jacket. You need to have a proper twelve, you need to like I want the nonpol politician to answer. This is funny. It's like

I wonder if I just wore friggin' streetwear and and you know and and and dyed my hair, bleached my hair like I used to when I was a young punk rock kid. You know, if if everybody would really just hear what I'm saying to see it's not bullshit. I'm just telling you the truth. Like if he's gonna fight Michael Chandler next. Right. It's not and we're not thinking about that. You know what I mean? But ultimately of course we know he wants to fight. Of course we know It's there and of course I think you've Everybody keeps doing their thing. It's gonna be a market for it, right? So well let's talk about the

The biggest of these freak show fights right now is Elon or Zuck and It was one of those things that like in our world's like that's n that's never happened in the kind of business and Tech world. And then Dana comes out and kinda certifies it, he's like, No.

They want it to happen. We're talking to them. We might make it happen. Which was Yeah, but he always does. Exactly. It's Dana White, so you never know. Uh but You know, it it was interesting that it got a little bit more heat from that. What's your take on that? And again, same question. Probably that I don't know if Dana would have gone on a limb if you hadn't really talked to both, right? I mean Well, I I'm sure he talked to both, but

I don't uh I don't think that he would have done that, you know, and and even Zuck training with freaking, you know, a bunch of different fighters, Izzy and Bulk and And John Jones and and then uh Elon. Bringing in GSP and do you believe it'll happen?

And if so, who I believe Zuck would be down. Yeah. Catch weight, whatever. It doesn't matter. I agree. Like I think Zuck w is down. Zuck is uh is is is truly, you know, training and regardless of this fight or not, he's in there. Does that mean you think Elon might not be down? Cause that's our theory here on this podcast is that Elon wants to talk about it. Look, from the outside looking in and all the information that I have, which is probably less than what you have being in the tech world, you guys have some frickin' secret telegram groups and shit with other

Which one would you mind? Dude, for knowing you or like knowing what I think of you. You're probably gonna be managing them. I mean like Hey I'll I'll I'll yeah, I'm definitely gonna pursue them, you know, but so long as we get some rights, not just transactional. We gotta build something together, you know? But no, but I I I think it's up to Elon. I truly think it's up to you, but You know? And

I don't know. Do you think but Dana came out and said if it happened, they probably looked at the numbers though for both X and threads are like This is great. More serious. Like no, don't talk about it. I saw those

Text exchanges and all that kind of stuff that kinda or leak. And like I said, Zuck's Zux Zuck's Zach's about it. You know? Dana has said If it happens, it would be the biggest fight ever. He thinks it would surpass

Lloyd Pacquiao, it would surpass Lloyd Connor, he thinks it would be that'cause it's just like uh, you know, the freak of all freak shows in that sense. Like It crosses over into so many different Like fan bases or domains. You get all the combat sports people, but you'd also get the business people to watch. I think so. I think so. And I think it would also be the saddest fight ever. Yeah, it'd also be really uh lame to watch. It was actually it was it was actually it was actually kinda fucked up the way Elo was all about it. And then all of a sudden, it's not gonna be the UFC, it's gonna be charity like Wait a second, you can't play alone all this fucking time and then

And then all of a sudden pull the rug, you know what I mean? Like Did you see the video of him curling a forty or he had like a twenty pound or forty pound weight at his office and he did a live Twitter where he was he's like, I'm curling to prepare. It's like No I swear to God I if you think doing curls at your desk is how you prepare, you're this is not gonna be good. You know? Oh, I didn't see that. That's funny. That's hilarious. Dude, I wanna ask you let me ask you a qu about some other slick guys. So basically a lot of people who don't watch the UFC they they don't know that uh so Dana's the front guy, you know, he's doing a lot of the match setting and uh he does all the talking.

And he seems like a wonderful businessman. But the Fertita brothers interest me most because they were uh I think I think data only owned like four or six percent of it when it sold. But the F Fertina brothers m owned most all of it, besides some outside outside money because they were already wealthy. But they seem like

Those guys they they don't do a lot of interviews and they're a little bit behind the scenes. They seem like sharks. Have you learned anything interesting from uh uh the two brothers and Dana, uh about business. Well, so obviously look, the they sold They're their business now, right? Endeavour ended up. You know. Way more than the time they

They bought it. Uh But I I had uh the pleasure of being able to to you know deal uh across from Lorenzo Fetita on particularly uh on a on a couple of clients, particularly Connor, uh obviously at that level. Um and they're very savvy businessmen, very, very composed, you know. I I

It's not it's the the dynamic when I'm on the opposite side, naturally, it's adversarial a lot of the time, right? And so Um you know, at the end of the day, I'm advocating for my clients. So it's it's I'm not their best friend, right? It's not like they're gonna invite me over for Christmas and And uh but but we do have we did have a respectful relationship and I really really enjoyed dealing with someone, you know, that that has been not only successful in our sport and a pioneer in it, but

was a super successful businessman in the casino business and and other businesses as well. So You learn you learn from the interactions and the dealings and the negotiations that you're you're you're you're doing. Like for example When when Mayweather McGregor happened and we we basically Not what we were achieving or or striving for from a negotiation like I don't know. I really we had that moment when we walked out of Lorenzo's office. We're like

Fucking did it. You know, it was like a moment, right? And so Do you guys like keep a straight face until you get to the parking lot? Yeah, you get like giddy start hugging at you. Well, in the meeting in in in in the office you have the smirk, you know, you don't do it all right. And then yeah, when you get in the car, you're like, ah, you celebrate. You know? Um, but yeah, man, I think it's the it's the human shit. I think that's what people don't realize. I mean it's like it's the same in all sectors, all sports.

And even the most composed person that doesn't Do any interviews. I'm sure have had those moments in their own, you know, journeys as well, right? I read on um Front office sports, I think it's called. It's like a sports publication.

That the final exit For Uh Proper twelve was six hundred million dollars. And I think that was only four years after you started it. It's six hundred million dollars in the ballpark. Three years, and I can tell you, listen, if it's publicly printed, then you gotta go down because I can't necessarily comment on the specific numbers, but we're still involved, too. It's not You know, at the end of the day it's it's we we're still

you know, part of the team are still pushing it to grow the brand. We just came out with a new flavor, our Irish Apple flavor, which is amazing. Um, you know Dangerously amazing too. Ca you know, you just it it drinks It goes down so easy. Um, but yeah, man, I'm I'm super proud of that. Was that like a new level for you wealth wise? And what I mean, or were you able to make money a little bit along the way?

Mm, you know, I think that was a whole nother level. Right. That was a whole nother level where you're able to Achieve, you know. Your your your

You know. the your ultimate goals, right? But ultimately too. You're you're you're Proving your concept. You know what I mean? Like ultimately like We're not having to go sell the platform.

We're creating liquidity events by creating opportunities um left and right, not just for clients. Now we're creating Ventures that are you know, creative to the platform. We have a uh a smart basketball technology called Hoop. We have uh, you know, some other ventures in the pipeline that are coming out that are very very much focused on

on advocacy for the entire sport and creating something Where we're putting our own capital in these things to create opportunities for everybody else, right? And so And and there's other things that we're creating specifically for our clients, right? So so you know, in lieu of of uh of of of you know having the opportunity to invest or you know, a an athlete not maybe not having the brand equity to go start their own venture, how can we bring them along the route with us, you know?

For the next proper twelve list. If you if you will, right? I always like to ask people this. Um Because I remember, you know, you st when you start out in business. Typically you have

Kinda nothing to your name. And you've got this. Literally nothing. Credit card debt. Like exactly. Nothing. So you start at zero or usually you go below zero. You dip below zero for a period of time. Well the the funny thing is and this is what people don't appreciate, like My wife now, she was My girlfriend and she had a job and we were literally maxed out credit cards. And for the first seven years of paradigm, I didn't take a paycheck.

I was paying Team members and staff. Before I was paying myself. And I think people lose sight of that, you know? It's like

But then when you have You successful, you still try to do right. Take care of people, but even that's Sometimes no good deed goes unpunished, right? But ultimately The it's a war of attrition. You have to be able to withstand all of it and really believe in what you're doing.

And You know. Eat shit sandwiches daily right on your way there. You you eat these shit sandwiches for in your case, seven years. In my case I remember like sort of eight or nine years straight of just Uh like in my case it's just kinda failure, but like in your case, at least you're building it up. Um

And then you finally have the moment where It's kinda like validated, realized, a payday comes in, you get a windfall along the way. And Like Financially, sure, that's exciting and and things change.

at a logical level, but before it hits the logical level, there's kinda the emotional level of like What does that feel like? Um what thoughts go through your head at that time? We had a guy come on the pot, he's like Dude, I used to just every day for the next week I just drove to the bank and I would just In the ATM put my card in and say print receipt.

'Cause I just wanted to see it. And he's like he's like I didn't even have anything James Hong I didn't even have anything I wanted to spend it on. He's like I was just amaz I was just amazing to look at that'cause I knew the seven year or whatever the the the years that go into Not not being there, not having that.

And we had other people that are like, you know Yes. Oddly numb feeling. I didn't feel anything. And other people were like, you know, I had a conversation with myself. I said, All right, now I'm here. Here's the Pivotal conversation I had myself. So I always

Like to Ask people about that moment'cause I think There's usually something interesting that happens. It's not just like just another day. So it's surreal it's surreal to me because, you know, on on one end It happened during COVID. So it was a real fuck it was a weird fucking time for all of us, right?

And You know, you you you you You get there and honestly it's like you're pinching yourself and you know Because it's a new age, you don't have to necessarily go to the bank account to print the receipt anywhere. You can just look at that and I surely did that a few times. It's like what, you know, um Um, but also like you have to make decisions. Like I I we we hired more people, we gave people raises, we gave people bonuses that had nothing to do with the with that part of the business. And

And we invested back in the business. And so I was Um first thing I bought was my mom a pl my house and a car. And so I like, you know, I I was trying to really You know, stay grounded, you know what I mean? And more importantly, like try to do right. You know As best as you can.

Um I for For those That are Important to you.

Mm. um family and on your team, right? And and ultimately Um still like just enjoy the moment and because we were kinda Everybody locked in at home.

It was You know Every night it was for my wife and I it was just surreal and it's like Yeah, then you start to think about okay, well Do you tell your kids? Do you not how do you raise them the right way? How do you make them hungry and humble? You know what I mean? It's not about that.

A lot of things change, right? Because it's like you get there and you start to realize Um you gotta start Planning thinking. And and acting differently, but then also uh other unintended issues start to come up, you know, like was that more money, more problems. This is is true. You know, at the end of the day. Uh what problems? Just

A a lot of different things. I think unappre people want to think people want shit. Una pre people think that they deserve shit. Um unappreciative people, no matter what you give'em. You know, they just un unfortunately have a self inflated view. Uh

You know, uh I think there's a there's a whole list of issues that come up with it, right? Uh That's the reality. But it is You gotta k take the good, the bad, the ugly. And just keep rolling to bunches. And level up. And level up and evolve. That's what it is. I thought you were gonna say you had a red panty night. I was I was waiting for it. That was the You said it for me, I did. And you had two bites of the apple, right? If I remember correctly, like I think you guys did you guys sell a portion of the of the business early on? And I think you sold half of it and then another I don't know if it was the half or the rest or a another big chunk. Yeah.

Right. Yep. Was it a hard decision to sell, or did you have six hundred million reasons? I mean it was I mean look, and it first of all was an amazing fact like now we still have we we're still part of the business, so we can still Keep making a lot of money in in in into the next decade or and longer. You know, at the end of the day. Um because uh

It's always difficult to think about oh, woulda, shoulda, coulda, right? But You gotta be able to count. You know, the fortunes of it all. Uh You know, and and

Be grounded and and And that positive reality, it's not a negative thing. You know, it's very easy to always Monday Monday morning quarterback something back, Oh, we shouldn't have sold'cause of this, this and that. You have those regrets, w which I think is normal, by the way. I think most people who not m may maybe most, I think who they sell that y you you'll if you sell it right, you tend to sell early. Right? I mean

Yeah, that tends to happen. I think I think the way we structured the deal allows us to really can No, he we made it. A ton of money, but we just continue to make a ton of money. And

And you know Ultimately, have I had those thoughts? Sure. You always think about it and 'Cause it's for me it's more so Okay. It's about execution, right? So not only do we execute but then

How was How the deal, how's the terms, how's this, how's that? You know, so I'm kinda like constantly watching the film to make sure that I'm learning and growing as an entrepreneur because I'm not resting on my laurels either. I'm not done. Right. And so I'm I'm still playing the game. And while you play the game, you gotta be Able to not only Celebrate the victories or watch the tape backers. See where you could have gotten better. Right. That's the only way you're gonna be the best at what you do. So I have um a partner who a business partner who basically he he was he was already successful before, but his second company

He was about to get a two hundred million dollar check for the sale. And it was a like a One of those like clickbaity websites on Facebook that showed like top ten lists and then Facebook changed the algorithm. And the sell sale dropped from two hundred million to like thirty million, and it was just a massive issue because of platform risk.

And there's a lot of fear of platform risk. Do you Do you view Connor as like your platform risk. Like if he really s he gets in trouble uh sometimes n he gets accused of a lot of stuff sometimes maybe he actually did do it, sometimes he didn't do it. Do you get nervous about platform risk with Connor of like shit if

He does something really bad. I'm I'm fucked. Yeah, well well he's been accused of a lot of things and we've never been that's that's the the the The facts, right? Uh But

Obviously there's always risk in everything and I think when you look at You know, such a you know, Connor's kind of like an enigma, right? So there's certainly gonna be Uh those that may be And not want to do anything. But at the end of the day, whoever gets to call with us understands the McGregor Break. Right, and understands

Inherent risks that potentially come with that, but Ultimately they also look at the track record and that is always gonna win the day. Right,'cause you could make all these claims, accusation, whatever, but ultimately

But the facts are the facts. And the results are the results and the data is the data. So I think when you look at all those things. Some of all parts is why we have a healthy relationship with all of our business partners and we continue to incubate and launch. Other exciting businesses and around the kind of brand. For me He's the biggest

Client is the he's he's also the top one one percent. you know, pop culture brand in the world. So It's like unless I go inside The other

People in that small Uh bucket, if you will. He's always gonna have uh you know. That that let's call it You know, uh uh proportionate

risk value across my platform, right? But ultimately we're also You know, much more than just one client and we're building something that for me is into the future, right? Sean, did you see what happened with Barstool? So basically Barstool sports sold to a betting company. Pen pen. Yeah. And I don't remember the final sale. Six hundred million plus Dave made a killing.

Think he got stock, I think, right? A lot of stock. Yeah, he he got a lot of stock. I think he got some uh I think he was able to sell some. I know I know that the the on Wall Street you could see that he did sell a little bit. And he um Basically after three years. Pem was like

Shit, you guys are insane. Like you're it's really hard for for us to do like'cause we're regulated as a casino. It's really hard to let you do what you want to do without hurting us. And ESPN wants to do this big deal with us, but they won't do it for Barcelona. You know what, Dave here, look, just have the company back. And if you ever sell it again, we get half of the profit. Cool. And in exchange, we're gonna do this ESPN deal, which is gonna boost our stock. We're good.

It was like the the greatest coup of all time of like You know, Dave getting uh Dave selling it and then them just saying Here, actually we don't want this. Uh, you know, maybe we have a world where the buyer of of proper twelve is like Hey, this was cool and all, but you know what? You can just have it.

It's yours now. You can have it. Yeah, I think that was brilliant. It's a great move for him and I think he still has pen stock, too. So then the stock goes up and he win it again. So Good for him. Um yeah, that then that's a that's an interesting sector we're we're getting ready to enter into as well. So I think that's that's uh I'm interested to see what they do with it now, right? See what they end up what who they end up you know, partner with to try to get that off the ground. You

Probably I I'm guessing you kinda studied other people who had talent like this. Like I don't know if you've you're in a group chat like Scooter Braun and like, you know. John Sahiti or some of these guys that are managing, you know, the the sort of the big stores, th those same top one percent. Kind of like people who can move the needle. John's a John's a John's a friend. I don't know Scooter, but John's a friend. Who's John? What's his last name? The guy who manages the Nelk Boys now. Um Oh yeah yeah.

Um So he's he is he is probably a he has he is like A dozen or so. Some of the top podcasts and personalities. You know, he's he's a he's a He's certainly a uh entrepreneur I respect.

And he um and so you you kind of study them a little bit. If somebody was studying you and they see what you're doing with Connor and how you built Like I'm just gonna name them off. So you did. Whiskey brand, proper twelve. You have Netflix documentaries and like entertainment that way. You have Roadhouse, which is like the new movie coming out. You have

The August McGregor the the suit lines. You have title, which is like the recovery spray. You have the fast app, which is like fitness. Like app. Uh plus I think s like gyms coming or whatever, like you know, something like that. Like a fitness Yeah, we have actually have a uh event based uh competition coming like three called three KO. So that's gonna be

You know, think of of Spartan Race meets meets meets uh CrossFit games, you know? Very cool. So you got you have that. You have Uh, I think it's like a mobile game that he's in. You got you do like kind of the the the celebrity fight with Mayweather. There's all these different things you've done around that person, that brand. And I'm sure some of them worked amazingly and some of them probably were too much work for what they were worth. You just you you learn as you go, right? You're not

I doubt You you were the one entrepreneur who just magically had everything right from day one. No way, right? So if somebody was studying you or Somebody had, you know It was was it was hat was with the next McCrecker, was it with another star creator.

Would you what would be your kind of like advice to that person? How would you advise them based on your learnings of the last Ten years of trying to figure this out. Yeah, I mean First and foremost, I'm still learning. Right. I'm still learning. I'm still growing.

What I would say is, you know, you have to be ready to Um You know Not only dream. But

act on those dreams, right? And come prepared from a research and preparation perspective. Building out a plan and be fluid because it's not always gonna go to plan, right? But if you're prepared and you do have a plan. You're You're likely more you know, you're likely to execute

Even if you have to deviate a little bit'cause you have to stay fluid with what reality hits you with, right? Um, you have to also have thick skin, man. Like at the end of the day, it's a war of attrition. You're gonna eat chip sandwiches. Daily. For a long time. And so you gotta be able to withstand that with a smile, but be able to see through all the noise.

The pressure And more importantly, have that. ability to communicate with that with that client, right? Because you guys got to stay in sync in terms of what you're building. Um I would say, you know, one of the things I wish that would have done build it. a team around you that's more experienced than you.

Right. Because ultimately I think that that's what's gonna allow you to accelerate your plan as opposed to bringing people And then having to deal other with other things like those people turning on How big's the paradigm team? It's still boutique. So we're about fifteen on on the whole co level, but then every

Brand Co, if you will, uh has has its own respective team, right? Uh And what I would also say is you know, don't Don't stop innovating. Right. Um

Don't stop trying to create. Uh new opportunities that After a line. Right, with your client. Right, organically, but you gotta make sure you're able to clearly define that.

What what's your criteria? So like you've gone into these ten different categories. How do you pick which category to go into? What what is it just? Well, it had the line organically. Right. And they have to have a genuine interest'cause you can't sell something that's fake. I mean, everybody thought and that's another thing. Everybody thought Prophet Tob was gonna be a gimmick. Until they tried it. Obviously, if you don't drink, you don't drink. But if you try it, you're gonna be Oh my God, this is great. We made sure we created a uh substantive brand.

Right. It wasn't going to be just something that we just put a space on in. And try to sell and that's important, I know, to him as well. That's why he believes in the And in in the ventures that Yeah, that

uh that he's involved with he's Very passed over, but it's they're of substance as well. They quality. So you have to understand the the market. You have to understand the players in the market. You have to understand how you fit in and how you can disrupt the market and grab market share. And you have to put a plan together that allows you to to have a higher probability of success with the black belts that are are gonna help you operate the business.

You know, and then having all the other components they're making sure that you could actually Build. A product or service or substance. By the way, did you ever consider just putting his name on it? Like you have like uh Jameson or Johnny Walker or Jack Daniels like Gregor's name is is so famous.

It's an interesting decision. It's actually take it's taken. We did think about that. But actually there's a the McGregor clan. I think it's a Scotch. I'm not mistaken. So that w that was certainly considered. We ate we also considered notorious Irish whiskey at one point. Right. Um and and you know, again, even early earlier days. Mm-hmm.

But No, Proper Troll's a good name. That's a great name. Again, we'll what's it mean like the tw is it like the twelve districts of Dublin? So each let's call it Yeah. And so And proper. I mean they always say that was a proper night out, you know, like uh it was proper good time.

Um so it's you know, proper number twelve. That just made sense for the brand. Again. After pivoting. several groups and finding the the right partners, you know, we came up with the brand together and Sean and I are big fans of of words. You know, like we'll hear someone say something and we're like oh man, the language they use was beautiful. That was really good language, whether it's writing or just someone talking.

The cool thing about Connor is he he he's got the a beautiful vocabulary and beautiful timing and beautiful phrasing. So he uses wonderful words and so like I remember when he was fought fighting Jose Aldo, he would talk about like He was like if this was another time I would storm your pavilla And then he like talks about like what he would do to the And uh like he he like you know, the whole red panty night. Like he just has like Really funny.

catchy phrases. I guess Trump kinda did this too, where he just like just really catchy stuff. Are you guys ever just shooting the shit and you're like, Oh, that's the lion. We're gonna have to we're gonna have to use that. Uh he's very natural. Going back to the acumen. I mean That is stuff that it's not rehearsed. It's very much Stuff that he just comes up with. But we'd be there and he say some stuff like that was hilarious. That's another that's another McGregorism. You know what I mean? Like you're like, put that in the bank. I have two fan service questions that are around that. Number one, Well during the May Mayweather press tour

Uh which was just Like a big thing. Yeah, that was that was so much fun. But it looked like Because All UFC press tours are the same. You go, you sit and they ask you questions and then you react. Whereas that one was like stand up.

And give a speech and it almost looked like Connor was almost ambushed like Oh, I just gotta give a twenty minute improvised speech in front of millions of people right now. I think it was that an ambush? I always wondered. He had no idea what the format was going to be like. And Sam, yes, it was exactly at the time. But just Thinking back to it, every time it kinda comes up from whether it's the birth three, whatever it may be.

It was such a great experience, man. And it was like once in a lifetime thing because You know, Sean, it w there was no format. So to your point, I don't know if you felt ambushed, but certainly we're like Oh, what how is it for this one? How is it for that one? Right. But the energy of all of them was out of this world. And so I think that they fed off that energy, which gave them the ability to deliver these legendary lines answered back and forth. I remember watching it and it was clear that he was like, Wait, there's no fucking questions. I just have to I just have to go. Okay, I'm a s I'm a comedian now. All right.

Yeah. And he said this line, he goes, You know, they've they've tried everything they didn't tell us the format, my microphone doesn't work. They're trying to put me in a uncomfortable situation. But they don't know. I thrive in uncomfortable situations. I almost feel like he was giving himself a pep talk during the speech. I really love that line. That was that was great.

But I also have another kind of Answer his question on almost the other side of the coin. So as you can tell. Both. fans of you of the UFC of Connor. Like we we really uh it'll take a lot of inspiration from some of the you know it's it's just a badass thing to go out there and just

fight and and put yourself on the line like that every single time. There's something to be admired with that, for sure. And I think Connor came in with a very Uh like at the beginning How could you hate the guy like he was

He was bold, he came from nowhere, he was like, you know, this guy who was like a pl you know apprentice plumber. And then was like all of a sudden beating everybody exactly this way he said he would. His fighting style was electric. Like there was nothing to dislike about the guy, I thought On the on the come up. Um, I'm sure some people did, but like the majority of fans I think were were were on the come up were just like this guy's incredible.

And then there's sort of almost like a heel turn now where um I know a lot of people who I watch fights with. They're sort of feel like he's kinda jumped the shark. Like, Oh, you know, now he's this like First of all, she's like super jacked now in this a huge way. He's like more of a boxer. He's He hasn't fought in a long time, you know, he talks trash maybe he's crossing the line too much, or he's getting in trouble, like

There's all these things that honestly like I know he's your client and he's your friend and probably never gonna say a bad word about'em, but I think there are some Fair criticisms that like You know, it it's understandable why somebody who was a super fan might now feel like uh, you know I can't really

You know, get behind everything that I'm that I'm seeing here. Um Do you think about that at all? And do you uh I guess like what's your reaction to that? I I don't really know how to phrase the question, but I feel like you're one of the Few people on earth. Who would have a an an opinion about this that I would really care to hear.

I mean, look, I it it's just like you are engaged with these conversations, naturally I'm gonna hear everything, right, from people around me. You know, it yeah. Or there's my friends, or there's family. And ultimately what I'll say is this, like, you know. Everybody's entitled to their own opinion. I know who the person is.

And obviously I I do have an intimate relationship. It's something that's more than just transactionals, more than just client, a business partner. Someone that I I'm I'm too mean. So At the end of the day You know, I know That

History once it's done being written. Well be interpreted by everybody differently. He's definitely not perfect. He's definitely made mistakes.

A lot of the criticism too. Is Subjective. It's based on where where you stand on what you believe in or what you want to see, et cetera. But A never been legally uh all those accusations.

have not been legally found to be true, right? B it was the cleanest Most tested athlete before he got these shot of pool. And when he returns to fighting, he's gonna do it the right way and everything's gonna be legal. So everybody can say what they wanna say. There's nothing that was done wrong. Right. So he's he's

Uh constantly being vilified. Because ultimately. The stuff that they loved him for, he still does. Well outspoken. Still says what's on the top of his mind.

But maybe because he has Th Riches now and it's not the rags anymore. Sometimes we try to tear some people down. I don't know why. I can't tell you, right? But ultimately I do know

Proofs in the pudding. He has to continue to go out there and show that he could continue to evolve. be the best version of himself, not just athletically, but as a human being as well. And ultimately that's on him to do, and I can't do that for him, you can't do that for him. But Criticism's gonna come and when you're when you're in the public eye

You gotta be ready to to take it on. And at the end of the day, heavy's the head that wears the crown. You can't just want the good and not take the bad with it. So ultimately That's something that we constantly talk about. Something that I I know he says, I say to him. We talk about He understands that. But it doesn't make it easy.

It doesn't make it easy'cause ultimately it's like Well you know. You know, you talk about that that aha moment. I don't know how many entrepreneurs you've had on this podcast, but when they have that big moment. They don't need to be seen by everybody. They're probably enjoying it.

With nobody watching them. Or if they go somewhere. Nobody really recognizing who they are, right? Myself included. So ultimately it's very different. And Um that doesn't, you know. Essentially absolve him of of the responsibility that he has to take upon himself.

Certain sense, but most more importantly, it makes me understand Pressure is real, not only to win and succeed. But on another level to live your life so visibly for everybody to just critique every little thing in today's world, man. Everybody has an opinion.

You know? You you guys before you met me, you thought I was a square suit because of how I appeared visibly to or visually to you without ever talking to me before, right? So it's like Very easy and fast judgment based on whatever your belief system is, how you're raised, your experiences with someone that look like me, whatever it may be. Or your opinions of agents just because you watch Andras and Pollers. But I I I can't change that ultimately, right? And so when you live in today's world. Like that for everybody to critique, man. It's gonna come with

Not just the good, but the bad and the ugly as well, and you got to deal with it. I like the fan questions, you know, this is uh it's fun. We we've had Ariel Hawani on here. Uh, you know, we've become friendly with Ben Askren. I think we've talked to Mike Mike Bisbing, we've talked to a bunch of folks. It's uh you know, Sean and I are super fans, so it's always fun to like get like the insider. How many fights have you guys been to in person? I've only been to three or four. You can't.

The the the in person event is definitely like the best in person sporting event. But In my opinion, if you're like a uh like a a nerd and a true fan fan, it's so much better to hear the commentary and to see it on uh And to s like to see like the replay of the Sean Malley uh knockout. uh Saturday. Like it was really awesome to be able to like see it.

There is one challenge with UFC, which is that the cage and the cameraman on every post of the cage does kind of screw up the viewing experience depending on where you're at. Like I'm sure if you're comp but right next right ringside it maybe you don't have that issue, but like We went to one event at the the Vegas place, uh the one where um Mazvedal need Askron into like, you know You know, the next realm.

And uh And and you know, the guy I saw it, but the guy next to me like literally couldn't even see the thing he missed the moment'cause it was like a split it was like in the first five seconds of the fight. And secondly, like, you know, just because of the cage, like if you go to a football game game or a basketball game, it's open field, it's you know, it it's very easy to see what's going on. Whereas you're almost watching all the Jumbo Tron. Well it's interesting. First of all, I think

Look, there are pros and cons to your Both your points. The energy of Elite fights is something else. It's electric. I mean just the walkouts and The crowd and you feel it and then you hear the thuds and you know, it's like it's it's pretty Pretty amazing. I was at uh Jorge and Nate.

And it was like Spectacular. Right. But you it just It's just nice to be able to like you gotta go home and watch the replay again. Yeah, yeah. But then from a view perspective, to your point, unless you're like the first It's actually that

the the the mid low riser, which is the perfect view'cause you're looking into the octagon. But you're still really fairly close. And I think that's the best view live, right? But um None the less, no matter where your seats are, I think for big Big

big events, you the the electricity of that place is something else, you know? So what's gonna happen, like I'm following this whole circus with Dylan Dannis and Logan. I've I've never even seen Dylan Dannis train. I went and watched his two Belleter fights, but that was like years ago. What's gonna happen. Like I I don't know, I've never even seen spar or anything on like Leading up.

Videos, what's gonna happen. Uh on that. When then August it's August fourteenth. Logan is is obviously has a uh uh Uh leg up having, you know Yeah, I think he's bigger. No, listen, listen, I I I get it. Um Uh you know, the fight's actually scheduled October fourteenth, but

Right. Dylan has made all the necessary Necessary adjustments to his life. There's preparation. But this is his boxing debut. So he has to go in there and really prove it.

Right. I now I can tell you The bad to that's going back and forth, I mean You know He's confident in his abilities and he's definitely putting in the work. So ultimately you don't you don't make

You know, you don't take that position with the banter that he's doing if you're not going in there with some level of confidence in yourself, right? So And and I and I'm sure it's giving Logan a little bit more training for it, right?'Cause ultimately It's it's personal now, I would imagine, right? Um yeah. Not even Connor, you know, King of Trash talk Connor wouldn't even he never even went that far, uh, to talk about family. I I don't like that he's talking about family, but I like it in the sense of like I'm gonna stare at it.

Yeah what I mean. I'm a kid on the internet and I think it's funny too, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Like it's it's too far, but at the same time I'm like but it's there. You know what I mean? I'm watching that. I think what's interesting is the you know Love it or hate it. Or that is To the roof and you know, I it should help show the fight. And more importantly, like it's about now performing, right? Because ultimately you could

Talk all you want. Now you gotta go on the phone. But he's made all adjustments to his life personally and professionally, which which I'm very proud of him for doing. that will give him that that that high chance of winning this. I think he's gonna press and shock a lot of people. People are not giving him enough credit. And I think when he goes in there It's it's his time to shine. Now he's putting he's gonna put You're gonna basically put his money where his mouth is,'cause the mouth is getting it ready is gonna make people wanna watch him love him right. Well you

You were kind of implying you're like, Well, it it doesn't matter unless he loses and uh I kinda disagree. I I think uh I think he's already won whether he loses or or or not. Like he's already kinda like from where he was starting to where he is now, like You know, he's already got the i it i it he'll be okay. He'll even if he gets knocked out right away, he'll probably be better off than where he was. Oh this is a great opportunity for him, no doubt. No doubt. Thanks for doing this, man. Uh where should people follow you if they want to get more? Just uh my first and last name at Audio Tar. Twitter, Instagram.

Threads. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. At audio tar X at AudioTar threads. At audio tar Instagram. I think One of three still remain. All right, Audi. Thanks for doing this, man. All right, Jeff. Sean, Sam, thank you so much. Appreciate it. And that's the pod.

Yeah. I feel like I can rule the world, I know I can be what I want to I put my all in it like my days off On the road less travel never looking back

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