Live From The HIBT Summit: Gary Vaynerchuk

Hello, everyone, and welcome to a very special edition of How I Built This from NPR, I'm Guy Raz. So back in May, we held our first ever live virtual How I Built This summit. And most of the time we do it in person, but for obvious reasons we had to go virtual this year. But still, more than three thousand people from around the world attended. So throughout this summer, we're gonna release a bunch of our conversations from the summit right here on the podcast. And today we've got my interview with entrepreneur, author, and social media guru Gary Vanerchuk. And before we dive in, I should point out that in your podcast cue right now is my other interview with Gary. It's a full studio interview, and it's his whole life story. It's so interesting and amazing, and if you haven't listened to it already, you definitely should, and it'll make this conversation you're about to hear even. Better.

And if you've already listened and you're thinking, wait, aren't they just gonna go over what they talked about in the other interview? I promise you the answer is no. There is so much more great stuff I talked about with Gary at our virtual summit, all focused on his innovative approaches to marketing and branding. So I'm probably not the first person to describe Gary as a content making machine. Years ago, he saw the ear potential of YouTube and he launched a very funny and irreverent show about wine, which gained him a huge following. And sparked dozens of other ventures. And today he's got millions of followers on pretty much every possible platform.

Gary built an industry around the idea that you can pretty much sell almost anything online. As long as you're passionate about it and you put in the work. Gary, to say the least, makes a ton of content, and not just content, but compelling content about How to, well, make compelling content. So here's my conversation with Gary Vaynerchuk from the 2021 how I built this virtual summit. Enjoy. Gary, normally I wouldn't

take the time to ask you about the lemonade stand you ran as a kid. This was um I believe in New Jersey. But apparently yours wasn't just a stand, it was an entire franchise. How did you franchise your lemonade stand as a kid?

By being so nice to my friends every other day of the week that they felt compelled that when I asked. To stand behind the table that they would say yes. So I learned very early on that it wasn't Bribery or money. It was that.

My friends liked me. for all the other variable things. So when I would go in for the ask. Uh they felt compelled or guilted into doing it. And so I am

Multiple kids in the neighborhood that were pretty signed up for. Hey, this is your location. This is not a joke. I I would actually ride a big wheels. I didn't even have an actual bike yet. The old like big wheels. Oh yeah. And I would go around To my stands like I I think I was Tony Soprano.

For me to be that young, six, seven, eight. And for it to come so natural to me, you know, I think about Sports. Or musicians

You see those videos of Beyonce or LeBron and you're just like, right, of course. That's Me and business. You know, we didn't film those things. But

You know. I I just Kind of always new What I loved and what was interesting to me and what came

natural to me and what was in and I refine those skills in my youth and I think that gave me a head start of what I do today. All right. I want to push back for a second'cause I think that's true. I do think that you are a gifted and natural Entrepreneur. But most of us aren't. Most of us don't have

those gifts and we have to build them up. Right. You had in our conversation you talked about working your dad's liquor store and your dad and you were like Dad, you gotta sell wine. And he's like, Wine? You're like, yeah, and you've got to you've got to position it like this. So when people come in You know, and you figure out how to get people to linger and chat and then buy wine. Um So you had an instinct. So it m this may be hard for you to deconstruct this. Well, but how but let me deconstruct it. I'm sorry to interrupt, but like You know, by the time I was fiftin saying that to my dad, I had done

A hundred baseball cards shows. And Me moving around my table And understanding locations uh in the mall.

Or like You know. It was yes, I agree. But it was reps, right? It was shooting baskets like Some people are born with better hand eye coordination, but

You shoot ten thousand baskets, you're gonna be a little bit better than the one who's not, and so Yeah, I think for I'm you know, one of the things I'm fascinated by is I know right now I could be better at skiing. Music, singing. Uh tennis. Um

And pretty much most things. Do I think I could be at a hall of fame level on a lot of those and probably not. Do I think every one of those things can be dramatically better? I I do.

And then the question becomes You know Why do people become much better at golf? 'Cause they genuinely enjoy it. It's what they want to do for recreation and they get better at it.

To me I've always thought of that in the context of Professionalism. You know, what if You didn't do what you

or supposed to do or what your parents wanted you to do or What you thought. could make the most money with the quickest. What if you kind of focused on the things that were intriguing to you? Which inherently would make you put in the wraps.

What would that look like in a 20 year window? I still am incredibly fascinated by that thesis. Um, but I didn't know you sing. Do you sing really? I can't sing for crap. Okay, I was just I was taken aback for a moment.

Yeah. Go to singing lessons. I have a funny feeling I'd be much better than I am. Today In four years.

I have a funny feeling I'm not. Beyonce. Um but I but I but I definitely think it would be better. Um than I am today.

All right, you were very early on with your your dad's the liquor business get you got into Google AdWords and I mean b and in a website when nobody was doing it and Um and then eventually, you know, YouTube using YouTube as a as a marketing tool for wine library TV Um, which really kind of transformed you into a brand. It Gary Vee became a brand through this and you began to write books and

Um and talk about how people could Make money. on the internet. In part by making Content.

Yes. Is that still part of your message today? Yes. I mean I think The ride if you read Crush It.

Today, thirteen years after I wrote it. Um Yeah, I'm talking about influencer marketing. I'm talking about podcasts. I'm talking about everything that ended up happening.

You know The book When you deconstruct it is You know. If you're if you're not knowledgeable about wine

Or Jiu Jitsu or Mm. You know. Harvesting honey.

You know, that's gonna hurt you. If you're not Deeply interested in the community. Around those interests. You're not gonna be able to cultivate Lifetime value.

It's very hard to Put in that community time. And that And have content that hits Unless that layer of

Making content money. comes from a place where you're bringing so much value to the audience. That things start to happen. Right. People want to do things with you. Your audience wants to buy things from you. So it's a really interesting game of selflessness that drives selfishness, but yes.

I don't think thirteen years ago people realized how much democracy would be coming to content consumption that it was not right relegated to television, print, radio, NPR, ABC. And that the internet was going to be distribution. And if you found your way of communication, whether through video, audio, written, word, there was going to be opportunity on the other side of it. Gary, there are people who are who are attending the summit who are many startup

Star Founders Hugh are you know doing things from like a flower business to people who who are providing services for you know consulting services to people who are creating products Do you believe that anything can be turned into an interesting Uh content story, do you think that if somebody cares enough about their thing, even if it if it

might seem a little boring on the face of it. You can turn it into something interesting through content. I think that Nietzsche. are a much longer tail than people think. But I don't

Believe. All of them. Have the size Oh. Macro intrigue.

That Make it Something that We would all who were listening say, Oh, that's like a very lucrative opportunity, you know.

Frisbee. Right. Do I think that you can amass A hundred fifty thousand, five hundred thousand, four million People into a group.

On Facebook and I start a podcast and I do I I really do, Frisbee Gall. Like I really, really do, and I continue to believe this. A person who's obsessed with Frisbee Golf or Frisbee or what have you. Is she or he more excited about the notion of making eighty six thousand dollars a year and living that lifestyle? doing Frisbee every day because they were able to get a$25,000 sponsorship from the biggest thing, Frisbee for some and YouTube apps this and this and that.

Versus a buck thirty. Being A director at a company that makes them miserable. That to me is the centerpiece of this argument because. If y if it's wine, you could build a multi million dollar

company because there's enough interest in wine. Yeah. Even as a niche. If it's Professional basketball, you could go on to create a seven figure business easily for yourself. If it's The red power ranger, not even power rangers.

The red. Power Ranger. Іно you're now starting to look at a five figure monetization at scale. Strategy. Or maybe six if

You know, comic on this and this and that. So You know, I wanted to break that down since we had time together. There's a I do think almost everything. It's stunning what people collect are interested in. To sit and say you can then make a career out of it. Believe it or not.

I I probably go way further down the long tail than most people because I know about affiliate deals on eBay. I know that if you really grind it and work hard and reach out to certain companies there's there's branding deals to be had But Obviously, if you're talking about music, there's gonna be a lot more general intrigue as you go down if you go to Christian rock.

It might even be more lucrative because it's narrow, but still big enough. So those are the things I think through when I think about that question. All right, you're so so some of this obviously applies to creators or content creators or but what what about somebody who has a product or a service that they're offering? Let's say You know somebody watching now who has a business, how central in your view is creating a content strategy around their business if they want to scale and grow.

For міць. Top three things. in twenty twenty one. Because I think about growth, Guy. Do I think that there's millions of businesses

Better. chugging along, doing just fine without content? Of course I do. I just know them to be true. Do I look at every one of those businesses and say to myself, if she knew that if she put fifty five thousand dollars into an employee and some ads, that our top line revenue would go up by 200K.

Thus pain. Like I believe that. So the answer is for me. I have no idea why somebody would leave the growth on the table. In a world now where

The cost of creative And ad arbit on Facebook, TikTok, LinkedIn is so extreme. That there's a land grab of opportunity. I don't know why somebody would leave that on the table. What I see is some people are philosophically just against it because

They're content, which is incredible. Yeah, I'm I'm thrilled for them. And then there's another group that tried it. failed because of lack of patience. Or because they weren't educated enough of how to judge the people that were doing it for them and have decided this doesn't work. without realizing it was they that were the reason it didn't work. It's kind of like exercising for two weeks, not getting a six pack and being like, well, this doesn't work. Yeah.

So Um That's how I would answer that question. You know, it's interesting because we have an episode of how I built this about Policy Genius, the insurance marketplace. It's like Kayak or Expedia for insurance. And Jennifer Fitzgerald She tried to raise a million dollars, she couldn't

They ended up raising under seven hundred thousand dollars to start this business, which today has thirty million users, but they they could raise a whole lot of money. It was it was Jennifer and her co founder, Francois. Their third hire. was a content person to write articles about the insurance industry on their website.

How were you able to measure success in that first year? And she said, We weren't. We didn't know if anybody was reading these articles. But eventually. they started to rise up in search engine queries and today Most people go to Policy Genius to learn about insurance. Some of them buy insurance, some of them don't. But that's been central to their strategy.

It's Everything you just said is biggest things I believe in in the world. And that Is intent based. Marketing.

Because you're writing articles. To win the arbitrage of SM. where people are typing things in in Google with intent. And then you show up. Which I love.

Intent based marketing. I also what I love about social media. Is that is more classic brand awareness marketing that used to be left for the biggest brands the world. Coca-Cola.

Disney. Delta. Because the way the society worked was television print and radio were the places we were consuming information.

The costs. Of full page ads in the New York Times and running commercials on television were so extraordinary. Та діатен. sat at the top, and that's why you got the proctoring gambles and the Coca-Cola's and the Deltas. Now

We have Awareness Discovery happening In Instagram. And in TikTok.

Which has completely democratized the ability to brand. And so you could have something like I'll give you a great example. The ocean spray viral video. Right. Right. That is the single

most impactful ad in the history of Ocean Spray Cranberry. Yes. Done by a man that wasn't in the company nor hired by an agent as an agency. Right. There are things going on now. Because the TikTok's virality. That are just extraordinary. And um

And most of the world is not caught up to that. People are transactional in digital marketing. So they look for the CAC and the LTV, the customer acquisition cost, the lifetime value. The sales people. The branding people still live in television.

And kind of like business school how to build a brand. And Art. Contemporary in where they do create a brand building. And so what you have

Здесь вакуум с інкрепо situation currently guy in the world where very few people actually understand that you can build brand. Brand. on social at very low costs, then I believe that that is where the opportunity sits today. So Gary, if somebody watching today and most most of of the attendees at our in our community, you know, they're not

They don't have million dollar ad budgets or marketing budgets. They can't, you know With all due respect they can't afford Varner Media, you know, which is a You work with Fortune Five Hunter covers, but if you were to say to somebody, look, if somebody says said to you, Well, Gary, how do I start? How do I Create.

content with limited resources and limited time. Where do I even bign? What do you what do you say? I say a couple of things. I say look If you want to grow.

And you have limited resources, your actual resources, your ability to be educated. And you allocating the time. When people say to me, Well, I don't have time. You know, when I bought it And I do that for my best friends, my acquaintances.

Distant relatives. randomly because I'm in the mood sometimes. Guy, what people realize is They waste an extraordinary amount of time every day. If you talk to somebody who has six employees and has a business

She often is micromanaging. That they have no reason to be micromanaging. They have hour meetings that could be fifteen minute meetings, and miraculously, every time I've done a CAT scan, an MRI, an audit. We have found three hours a day, miraculously. From people that have no time.

Then what I say is now that we've found three a diet. a day and that gives me fifteen for the week. I want the first two weeks to be completely education, to be thirty hours of education. Watch these YouTube videos. What read these tutorials that are free on the internet.

Here, you know, here you know, Google away. How do I make a LinkedIn post for a lawyer? How to, you know, make a Podcast. How to Write articles that succeed on LinkedIn. It's all there. Yeah. It's all there.

Thirty hours. Then The next Thirty hours. Which is now obviously The first month's formula.

So the next two weeks Thirty hours. Belongs to you. You the proprietor. You

Make content. For thirty hours. Let me tell you why. Whether it's writing Whether it's recording an audio clip. on your iPhone or whether you're comfortable in video which is smaller, but obviously high impact.

You can't as a business owner. Judge when you can finally afford to hire someone. Or use an agency. The work? If you don't understand it the greatest vacuum.

In the last decade, guys, that people have been hiring people to do social media work and they've no idea how to judge Jurian. They have no clue. Yeah. So they're like, how is this it's just a black box? And so I believe that if you audit your days, and everybody's listening right now, I don't have those three hours. You really do. It's stunning how much time people spend.

Um Things that they're just accustomed to doing. It's this is what I do. Well, couldn't you have that person do like this is what I like and so once I get those sixty hours in that month. And use that formula of thirty and thirty. Then you make decisions.

And then you know what I've heard from people And I've been doing this a long time. Some people fall in love with it. And they become the content producer. That they never

Ever dreamed of. And so That's a very practical answer. Like you have that level of control as a small business owner. That's what I think you should do. Gary, you and we we talk about it I apologize real quick as a final thought. Yeah, please.

Everything I just said I did for seven years. For seven years before I hired anyone. Seven years I did my own content. All of it. When we come back in just a moment, more of my conversation with Gary Baynerchuk about which brands he thinks are doing some Excellent marketing right now? And why?

Stay with us, I'm Guy Roz, and you're listening to how I built this. From NPR. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This. I'm Guy Raz. So as part of this year's How I Built This Summit back in May, I spoke with social media expert Gary Vanerchuk, and the topic was branding and marketing. Here's more of that conversation. You have a massive following today, and you built that up over time very methodically and very slowly.

But if you are starting a business today Um and you You want to do a version of the same thing, it may not be th quite the same. How do you advise people to to create content That is meaningful and not just a bunch of noise. Cause you earlier you mentioned passion

and devotion, but passion and devotion is one thing. How do you actually create content that's half decent? The audience will decide, and I think if you look at it. Value comes in a couple places. I think about two E's. A lot, guy.

Expertise or escapism? So if somebody's listening right now. Two things that have always worked to guy's question is Do you have Expertise in what you're talking about.

And You have to have humility here and self awareness, like you know, some people like I'm an expert and really you're just an enthusiast. Do you have expertise? Or can you create Escape is it.

Escapism comes in many shapes and forms. It's really entertainment. Yeah. Something that's of interest. Right, for example

Being funny is an incredible tool of escapism. Yeah. You've made somebody laugh, they stop thinking about their day, but I think it requires. Someone say, Okay, I'm passionate about video games. How am I gonna build a big Twitch channel? It's gonna come from that you're epic at Fortnite and people just watching you out of awe of your skill set. Expertise.

Yeah. It might just be solid. But you're so damn compelling. While you're playing and you're storytelling, you're making people laugh, you've got a personality trait, charisma. You know I tell everybody I meet.

In real life that just Use charisma. I'm like Hey, have you considered this content thing? Like if you translate the way you do in this room right now to that medium, it's gonna be something that may lead to something. So I I think the answer is. You know, for me Yeah.

I think the reason I've been able to build to where I've been able to build to is I ended up having both without even truly understanding I have either when I started. I think I took for granted how much I knew about wine. 'cause my cocoon when I started the show. I definitely got Didn't ever think of myself as a I was 30 years old when I did my first episode. I never thought I would be known or have notoriety.

I knew that I was a class clown and had a level of charisma that people were attracted to me. But I never anticipated me popping on video the way I ended up popping the video. Well, to this point about charisma, right? Um some people have it naturally. Some people

Many people, by the way, I believe can develop charisma. Charisma can come with things like leadership or responsibility, but some people don't They just don't have it. You know, they're more introverted or shy. Which I think leads to podcasting and writing. I have a lot of friends and a lot of people who sent me incredible

emails that are very emotional to me. Because you know, I am so over the top, but I would argue that so much of the feedback I get are from people that are very different than me because they hear me saying what I'm about to say, which is like, look. Don't force the media. If you are incredibly Awkward.

Or non-charismatic in your own judgment and the judgment of others. This is not like a self-esteem issue. Well then don't force trying to like carry a one hour show on video. You know, I'll be very frank with you. I'm devastated that I'm not a better writer. Or have that skill set.

I would love. To not have like kind of the An pressure That audio and video create. And then sometimes just being sometimes Guy, I'll give you a great example. I'm on flights sometimes where I just have massive ideas.

Mm. But the m because of the You know, I'm on a plane and it's not conducive to putting out a video. I wish I could bang out. An incredible

Sixteent sentence Manifesto. and post it on LinkedIn. It doesn't flow for me that way. My book writing Is comp you should see what's going on with my latest book. It's hilarious. I audio the whole thing with a ghostwriter.

And now we're going through it. And I'm literally it's being read back to me because I'm audio. And I'm adjusting to it. And then sometimes I'm adjust I'm I'm making edits and then The original time I just said it two lines later. It's like an inefficient process. So Just to not be too long winded.

Find your medium. If you're not incredibly charismatic, you might have the luxury. Of being a compelling writer. And that's okay. You don't have to be on video and audio. Writing

It's still crushing. On the internet. But if it sounds to me that I mean I think this is sort of self evident, that if you have ambitions to to scale. to create something much bigger than than where you are right now.

It's hard work. You have to be in all of these places or in some or many of these places I don't think a bit As hard work, I genuinely think of it as fitness. Right?

So Seth. uh who's part of my team right now came in to set up this I I when you walk this set, you look great. He's just like in really good shape. He's always been in great shape, but I know that Seth puts in the work. Of course he has some natural You know.

DNA gifts. I have put in a lot of work over the last seven years. physically and I look at my old videos and now I'm like, man, I'm really I'm really proud. But I'm not Mr. Olympia. Right. And I also am now forty five. If I did this at twenty seven, it might have been interesting, but like this forty five year old little

God is never gonna and and that's how I think about what we're talking about here. Look. You don't have to go. To the hall of fame like Kobe. and be in the gym every minute of your life. Yes.

This is not about like if you dream it, it will come. This is about look. If you put in reps. In the gym you will start gaining muscle. But

Don't Get to the place in the gym where you start hurting yourself and getting burnt out or You go so hard in the gym for three months But then you eat like crap for a month because you it wasn't sustainable. The way the gym and health and fitness is that's how I think about business for me.

Алатов ефор. On work has been very easy. It is my hobby. Yep. Business is my golf. Із майські Із майтне і цай хобі. I also know for a lot of people it is not.

And it's beautiful to have a nine to five business that pay you know, you stay within your means of what that does. But hey, if you go nine to six and you have your same talent, yes, they're you're gonna be eking out results. So here's my question. I and th this is a bit of a digression'cause we're talking about marketing, but And I I t I asked you a version of this in the podcast, but I I'm really curious.

What motivates you? I mean, if it's not m I mean, you're very wealthy, you've made a lot of smart investments, you've sold businesses. You go to garage sales on the weekend looking for bargains. What you know, I I mean I love that. I love that, but but what what motivates you? Is it Money is it is it's what is it? Three it's three things. Let's break down garage ceiling.

So I'm living life putting out all this marketing stuff and I'm I listen. For all my talking. So I get A lot of DMs and emails saying, Cool, Gary, but I can't put a thousand dollars into

Netflix stock. I can't put Five thousand dollars and to You two ads. I'm like, Okay, that makes sense.

I'm gonna show people what I did when I was seventeen to twenty four to make some side money. I'm gonna show them how I garage sale. You wanna start for with eleven dollars? I got something for you. And let me show you how you go from eleven.

To four thousand. In a summer by going to town sales and getting educated. The other part of that so that's legacy. To answer your question three things. I want legacy. I'm a um

I'm attracted to legacy. I'm genuinely curious. Which is number one for me. When you said what drives you Curiosity. I'm

Wildly curious. Where I sit. In my profession. I I love sports. Sports has an epic.

There's a lot of data that supports a LeBron James versus a Dominique Wilkins conversation. In business it's a little trickier. Because What's interesting is my relationship with money. I have a little bit of a different take with entrepreneurship. I I think innovation matters.

I also think how much you give back to You know, it's how I'm living my life, how much you give back to entrepreneurship. Is it To the game is interesting. But I am curious, how strategic am I?

How much can I squeeze out of the gifts I was given? So I think curiosity Legacy. The thrill of the hunt. You know the best part about garage selling

is you pull up to a house at seven thirty in the morning And you don't know if you're gonna find a rare Nintendo game. For a dollar. It's fun. You know, I I've said this before. I I've said it before publicly. I think curiosity is much more important than than raw intelligence. I think actually people who are Curious'cause c I think curiosity is a

is a div can be a developed it's a choice. You could choose to be curious And it's as simple as that. And it's actually much, much more important than raw intelligence because uh in my experience every founder who's been on how I built this Is it

a a person who follows their curiosity. So I think it's a It's a super important point. I wanna I wanna ask you about a brand And you may not. You may not have one off the top of your head, but maybe you do.

Which brand right now do you think is Is doing marketing Very well. Right now.

No. Believe it or not, we work with TikTok Banner. But it's not the work we're doing with them that's gonna make me say Tip Top. It's gonna be the fact that I think Nick Tran is a very good operator as their CMO. I love what they're doing with their television commercials.

Using content that like It's my favorite concept. It's You're getting affirmation. That human beings Think this is interesting.

And then you're taking it to another platform and giving it even more awareness. So I think TikTok. Is done a very solid job. Of it's really funny, I think TikTok and Facebook, believe it or not. Building awareness around groups

I'm blown away by how much Under thirty year olds are signing up for Facebook groups that scale right now. I think it's an effective marketing job. By them. Elf cosmetics, I think has been very native to TikTok.

To a demo that They need to win there. That Th those are some things like you know, my brain went very fast when you said that. Yeah you know. The the truth is, it's always a tough question for me because I'm

Because unless I know the business results, yeah, I think that marketing is very good at cheering for itself. In a silo Without asking if it's doing what it's supposed to be doing. You know. W the Ad world loves to clap.

And celebrate itself around work. That isn't actually driving business results, which I've always found Fascinating. What do you think about sort of you know, kind of unusual approaches to content marketing. Like I think of Stakeums. You know Stakeums? Yeah. Stakeums has a a Twitter account that's gotten a lot of attention'cause it's just

The the person writing the tweets is just really quirky. and weighing in on all kinds of things that have nothing to do with stakehums. But it's but you go to their website, it's actually kinda funny and interesting. And you they sell T shirts and hats and it's you know, who's I haven't thought of stakehum since the eighties. I'm a I'm a huge fan. Of breaking patterns. If you think of you know, it's funny, I have been willing. As a human being to

Take on a little crow? A little judgment. out of my subconscious bias towards breaking patterns. I wouldn't call it shock jock. But I think you know, when I when I communicate

A lot of times I look at myself like it took me a long time. I'm like Oh. This is me being affected by Randy the Macho Man Savage and Eddie Murphy and Chris Rock. Like I'm affected by that. And when I think about those three. They broke patterns in their craft.

In deliberate. And I think when you're talking about what stakehams or what Wendy's does very well. Or other brands, Popeyes. Is breaking patterns. I mean it's what we did with planters, right? We killed Mr. Peanut.

That stopped everybody. Guy. Before Wayner won the planters business. When we started doing the work We realized nobody cared about Mr. Peanut. That was a nineteen sixties phenomenon.

So how do you break the pattern? You kill him. All of a sudden, miraculously, America really cared about it. And so yeah, I mean, how do you break patterns? Like that's what commercials were. When they first hit television.

What's unusual that isn't annoying or disruptive. That's what commercials became. So yeah, I'm a big fan of marketing that. Is different. Catches you

quote unquote off guard. But values the other person's time And that's where I think we've lost our way in marketing. A lot of marketing is disrupting people. Instead of catching them off guard.

The content has to be Worthwhile. It goes back to that escapism. Like if instead of a pre roll podcast ad If out of nowhere, guy, you started sinking. Let's use you. One of the great shows. I've sung before.

Okay. Right? Like like if somebody if I came to you and said Yeah, I really want wine text to explode and I think your audience. So would you sing? Yeah. I don't want to do a live read. I don't want to do a pre-roll. I don't want to do a mid roll. I want to pay you. That in the middle of an interview out of nowhere for no reason

You start going wine text.com. You know, like Like. That Would completely stop your entire audience. That's how my brain thinks. I think in creative ways.

The Well completely get everybody to quote unquote pay attention. But not Be something that is Bothering them because they wanna

Actually hear the rest of it. There's a Level of surprise, delight, and Integration. It's why I fell in love with social media. It was in the feed. It wasn't like you just got. I'm watching a show and it gets to the cliffhanger and that crap. Now I gotta watch a spindrip dad. Big shout out to the spin drip. I'm drinking one right now.

It's more integrated in a different silly way. You singing. A wine text add Will make people chuckle more so than When you start reading it, hey, let's stop real quick, this I gotta Give a shout out to one of our sponsors. It's already dead.

Because it's intrusive instead of In addition to Gary, I am gonna explore that, and I hope our audience watching right now will forgive me if I break out in song in the middle of your podcast episode. Just in the middle of it, randomly I love it. I'm in. That's Gary Vaynerchuk. We talked back in May as part of the How I Built This 2021 virtual summit. More conversations like this one from the How I Built This Summit will be in your feed soon, including my live interviews with Brene Brown, Adam Grant, and Rashad Robinson. You will not want to miss those, so please keep an eye on your podcast feed. This episode was edit by Casey Herman with music composed by R teen Erablui. Our production staff for the summit includes Neva Grant, JC Howard, Julia Carney, Farah Safari, Liz Metzger, Janet Ujong Lee,

Annalise Ober, Gianna Capadona, John Isabella, Hellie Prescott, Joana Povska, and Jessica Goldstein. Our intern is Harrison VJ Choi. Jeff Rogers is our executive producer. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to How I Built This. N PR.

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