#622: A Rare In-Person Random Show with Kevin Rose — VR Workouts, I Bonds, Excellent Movies, Recent Books, Lessons from Amy Tan, How to Shape Your Mind, and More

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Optimal minimal. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. And I answer your personal question. No, I just seem to. My cybernetic organism, living tissue over nether. No Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferris. Welcome to another episode. A very fun episode of the Tim Ferris Show.

This is another edition of The Random Show with my friend Kevin Rose. Who is Kevin Rose? He's a technologist. Serial entrepreneur, world class investor, self experimenter, and all around wild and crazy guy. You can find him at Kevin Rose on Twitter. I'll keep it short at that. Please enjoy.

Cheers, Kevin. Cheers. Good to see ya. Clink clink. So where are we and what are we drinking? Are you supposed to say welcome to the show and shit, you're already hammered? Yeah. I'm not already hammered. I just feel like in my current state Of mine and affairs of skipping the preamble.

Skipping all the foreplay. Go straight in. You know if my audience if my audience has been with me for seven hundred of these, I'm like, you know. Guys are probably pretty limbered up by now. Limbered. Limbered up. Love it. Yeah, welcome to the Tim Farish Show, everybody. This is a special edition. Random show. Been a few months at least. I know.

It's good to see you. We're we're actually next to each other. I know. If you're watching the video, we are sitting next to each other on my floor. Which is is crazy. Yeah. This is old school. I like it. Yeah. In front of a recording couch. Does my audio sound weird to you? Listen to this. Well that sounds weird to you.

Test one two three. Hello, hello. How's it going? Does that sound weird? Watch. Yeah.

Talk talk talk. You sound good, right? Doesn't sound weird. You don't s you don't sound weird. Okay, sweet. Actually, yeah, you know, when I get close. You're pretty close. Yeah. If I talk right now, I'm getting a huge gain.

Blowback on my voice, but not yours. Oh, interesting. So maybe it's just uh the headphone thing. Yeah. Right. Sorry, people. We're gonna leave all that in.

That's actually pretty funny. People will be like, What the fuck are these guys doing? I'm investing in tequila, folks, not in editing. Just kidding. Half. So we are actually in my new apartment in Los Angeles. We're sitting on the floor in front of a a little table here. Yeah, I'm in LA now. I moved.

Why did you move to LA? You know Lot of things going on. Because since Covid, everybody from LA has moved to Austin. Is that true? A lot of a lot of people have moved to Austin. I know a lot of people move to Austin. You know, it was one of those things where I was in Portland, Oregon for a few years. Loved it. Beautiful, beautiful place. Rains a lot.

Not a lot of friends. And so it was hard because we're in the middle of nowhere. And it's actually just kinda depressing. Like rain and no friends with Covid combined. Now when you moved there, I have to say, I was like, Who does Kevin know in that area? Yeah, I knew a couple people and one of them moved and I had a couple other friends and then One of'em had a baby and you know, with Covet and everything, you like you don't give them a new baby and all that stuff. So It was tough, but my family was out there. My mom was out there, you know, my sisters still out there and just decided

Hey, let's get away from them. Honestly, with all the NFT stuff going on and The majority of my calls were either LA or New York that I was having work wise. Yeah. And so why not get down to where everything is happening? And so the choice we weren't gonna go to New York'cause it's just Wintertime New York.

You've already done New York also. And I have two kids. And it's like New York's hard harder with kids. Yeah. So LA. Why is New York harder with kids? I mean when the snow is like the winters. The winters and you know there's also traffic. Like I remember when I was out in New York and I was watching I'm just laughing'cause I just spent three hours in traffic driving from San Diego to Los Angeles. There's a difference terrible. There's a difference between like LA's stop and go freeway traffic and like You're watching these kids, and I saw this happen where they make them all hold hands when they're crossing the street, of course. And then like a taxi comes flying around

You know, at a a million miles an hour and almost like wipes out a I I'm just I just kinda freak out. Yeah. When when we have the dad hat on with the kids, I'm like I don't wanna have to worry about that stuff. Right, got it. And so this is I and I know there's more neighborhoody stuff and there's There's areas of New York where we definitely could have made it work, but I don't know. West Coast. I'm I'm still my mom, you know, she's Up there, she's in her eighties, she's undergoing cancer treatments. I want to be on this coast. I can bounce up in a second if I need to. So, you know, made sense. That makes sense. Yeah.

All right. So sitting on the floor. With a Beverage. It's a great question because this is something of yours. I am keeping it simple.

And having some tequila. Missing a little bit of Texas, perhaps. Dos artes hundred percent agave blanco. I wanted something that would maybe be less likely to donkey punch me in the head. Hangover wise. And so I

Chose this as much for The right. As for the Bottle itself. I mean the actual ceramic Containers, gorgeous. This is one of our our favorite tequila's. I gotta say a big thank you to Anish.

who introduced me to this tequila bought me a bottle of this. as I think a birthday gift or something, it just blew my mind. So really good Not Crazy expensive, I like middle of the road kind of world. But just awesome to get it. Yeah, I have no idea. Just for the bottle alone, I'm imagining this costs a fair amount to make.

Which is true for a lot of the premium alcohols. Like you're paying twenty percent of the price or thirty percent of the price for The glass or the crystal or whatever you're Actually Not keeping, most likely. So what are you drinking? I am having a little bit of champagne.

Just because my wife bought a bottle and we opened it. I am drinking a really douchey champagne. It's not douchey, but it's like can I say that on your podcast? You can say whatever you want. Okay, so it it's um This is the funny thing. Darry came back from the champagne store, which grocery store. And she w she was like, I I saved three hundred dollars. And I'm like, Cool, what'd you get? We don't ever drink this champagne, but there was apparently a sale on something called Ace of Spades.

Which is Jay Z's champagne. It's actually quite good. It's actually quite good. recording and I was like and you also have a red wine with Snoop Dogg's face on it next to your sink. I'm like Tupac, uh grass fed butter, what's that? So we're coming. So they're not too far away from us is um a grocery store that basically has Snoop Dogg's wine and it's like kind of like a table wine. And Daria needs it for cooking, so she bought Snoop Dogs. It was like a six it was like well, I think ten dollar bottle of wine. Don't judge the cost of Snoop Dogs. Table one. I just thought I thought there were gonna be there was gonna be more to that pattern. That's it, basically. And how is it?

Yeah. It's quite good. Very dry. Fantastic. So good to see you, man. Yeah, it's been a long time since we've done one of these in person. I know. It reminds me of the old school episodes that we used to do. We used to do these all the time in San Francisco. Yeah. And Even with the glass.

background. It makes me think of one of your places in San Francisco. Totally. Where all those people showed up angry. No, the protesters. The protesters. Yeah. That place. That that particular place. Have you been protested yet? I have not been protested yet. It's interesting. Yeah. Well I think that's gonna happen actually with your

Oh God. I'm not sure. People's imaginations really go wild with what horrible thing I'm concocting, but I have not been protested. I'll take the counterpoint and this is I don't Wanna give him credit because I don't know if he would want it, but uh a friend of mine Who has this theory and I

Tend to agree with it that people are going to be Ten percent less famous every year. If they're already a public figure. If they're not in rapid ascension, if they're not exploding. And even if they are, if we go over a longer time frame, I think it's one thing to be popular on TikTok for a month.

You're on TikTok, right? I'm not. It's quite a different thing to be popular for like ten years on twenty years. Yeah. And I just think that is going to become harder and harder to do. Because there'll be more of a pool of people that'll be Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean the internet is just I mean just the young kids coming up on ya. Yeah, and I'm okay with it. I'm tired. Are you done? I think I'm like that NHL player where they're like, Oh wow, yeah, no, God, given how many injuries he's had, he's doing pretty well out there limping along on the ice. Yeah, but let me let me ask you. God bless him, he's giving it a good college try. I don't want to be that you're taquilla'cause I have a serious question to ask you here. Tell me.

That was a really intense sip on the microphone. It's like I don't wear a headset. I don't have to worry about it. So um You don't want to go for Rogan. You wanna take him out. Like you could you could you could go for it. No. He's won. Is he one? Oh, for sure he's one. Yeah, and it doesn't even enter my mind. Really? Does not even enter my mind. You have to have like a live studio and shit. Because a lot of it has to do with that like live presents. I mean he's a t he's a television professional. I mean he's very good. Interviewer, he's a very good commentator, he's very comfortable

in front of a camera and is an excellent storyteller. than his runner up in terms of size for interview format podcast. You gotta be up there with up there. I mean I'm up there, but You have to understand that there's Rogan and then there's like if it were the Tour de France, there'd be like one guy

Ten miles ahead. Yeah. And then there'd be a pack of He's like the guy on Royds. Then there'd be four eyes. No, I don't mean he's on Royds. I mean like in terms of his his like how far ahead he is. I think Yes. I mean it it's as if You then have a cohort of folks there are like four or five maybe who are like spread out over Two hundred yards. And so there is maybe a popularity sequence to it, but they're ten miles behind the person in

in first place. So I don't even I don't think about Uh competing at all in that sense. The other thing though too is like I feel like his content, he's really good And getting the spicy shit on, right? I can't have the spicy guest on, he knows how to push the buttons. And I feel like you have You have like fantastic intellectual conversations, but I don't know that you push the

The agenda of like normal celebrity. For the sake of like stirring up the pot a bit, you know? Yeah, no, I don't I don't have the endurance for it. And he really enjoys so many different formats. He He is

Joe Rogan, meaning Joe Rogan is the best version of Joe Rogan. And I think anyone who looks at what Joe does and says, I'm gonna do that and I'm gonna do that better and I'm gonna be bigger. is foolish. I think that's a terrible idea. Yeah, no shit. And Joe has tremendous endurance, I think, in part because he has

chosen formats And ways of communicating. and ways of presenting visually that it seems he really enjoys. Yeah. So if somebody tries to force fit themselves into that game, oh yeah, they're gonna lose. Yeah. You both had Zuckerberg on the show. Yeah. You maybe three months before him, four months, something like that. Behind the scenes, how much

Prepping do they give you? of like don't ask Mark this, like What's that like? They mean his team. were extremely easy to deal with.

For me. Did they say like this question is off off limits? Like don't ask Mark about his they didn't. I gave them as I give every guest final cut. So there wasn't a lot of talk about prohibited topics or anything like that. And

Did you go easy on him? I would say I went easy. There's something that people should know. If they don't already. About

The show and deliberate decisions that I make so that I enjoy the format in the same way that I think Joe does it with him with his format. And anyone who has I think

tremendous in podcast years longevity, which would be at least five or ten. finds the format that they're best at. It's just like different shaped athletes in different sports. Yeah. And In the case of my podcast, I made the decision really early on. I don't want to have a gotcha show.

There are many other people who are gonna do that better than I will. Because they enjoy it. I don't. For example

As much as I respect Mike Wallace, I don't need to be Mike Wallace. Mike Wallace already won the Mike Wallace game. If you have not heard that name, you should actually look him up because he was a very skilled interviewer and there's a documentary about him that is fantastic. And has chilling footage of him. And the entire story behind interviewing the Ayatollah Khomeini. In any case.

It's not hardball. It's not any of these formats and In part that this is gonna sound so cheesy and Hallmark card, but

I h hated going into interviews myself, because you've been interviewed a ton. I've been interviewed hundreds or thousands of times at this point. And When you go in and someone just cuts an angle and is out to get s some type of headline that they're going to Cherry pick from a longer statement you make and

twist it out of context. I just didn't want anything to do with that. I wanted my show to be the show. Not because it's easy necessarily. But because it's well researched and thoughtful. And not

out to be aggressive for the sake of being aggressive. For all of those reasons and more, there were certain topics that I didn't bring up. And in part that is because If it is a top, let's just say I were to ask Zuckerberg something like

What is your stance on A, B, and C or what How do you personally Think about Russia, Ukraine, this, that, and the other thing. when that is a clear and present high priority

Area focus within Meta Facebook itself. He's not gonna have any maneuvering ability. You know what I mean? He's he's going to feel as he should.

Compelled. to give whatever response they have jointly be the right response. And so for me to throw that out, it's a waste of everyone's time and oxygen. Because number one, we're not gonna get and I wouldn't expect, nor would I even recommend that he give something. No.

in my podcast isn't live again for For many reasons. But I think I know which trees are worth barking up and which are not. I think I'm very good at picking those shots. And if people want, let's just say, a politically oriented show or a controversy focused show or true crime or something. There are

Tens of thousands of podcasts, brand new ones that come out every week. You can find something you enjoy. For me, I I wanted a lot of that interview to say with Mark. Which I was quite happy with. Will remain evergreen for a very long time. So talking about How he structures his life, thinks about priorities.

how he integrates, say, belief systems like religion into his family. I mean, these are all questions that may not be the topic of the week, but that nonetheless I think will preserve value, maybe even appreciate in value over time as more and more people chase. Yeah. Whatever happens to be trending that instant. That's a great point. TikTok. Yeah. Or whatever the platform is. Remember Vine? I mean Yeah. Risky business betting on

one platform. When I interviewed Elon probably ten years or so ago, I did the same type of approach where it was very like Let's get into who you are as a person versus the topic of the day. And if you go back and watch the interview today, there's still some great Evergreen pieces of content that are like lessons from Just his childhood, growing up, like things that lessons that he learned along the way. The idea of um taking things back to first principles, like the all that stuff was

Pretty new when he talked about it back then. Yeah. I'm still really proud of that interview that it it still gets a lot of views and people should turn the ads out on that shit. I don't have ads on that. The holes in your socks. Yeah, just it's you know it's breaking down. All the hand me downs that you're wearing. That's right. Tons are tough in the Rose Household. So tough. What do you think I should do with the podcast? Honestly, because I love you, I want you to move to Los Angeles and have a live show. Cause I think a live show would be here's the question, like

I guess what I was trying to hint at with the Joe Rogan piece is that I believe When I watch Zuck on his show and I watch a lot of people, Aaron Rodgers and a few people that I've watched recently. The reason why he can get them to share intimate details is because of that. I mean Aaron Rodgers is sitting there smoking a cigar on a set, right? And they're just kinda chilling out, like having fun.

It's the Elon moment with the weed cigarette, you know, all that shit. But like that magic can happen remote, you know? Yeah, it's a lot harder. It's a lot harder. So I don't know. If you're gonna go for it, like I'd love for you to move to LA, dude, but that's just me personally'cause having wanted to have you more orbit and hanging out more often, you know? Yeah. You know, I've thought about doing a limited edition

Live series. I was actually looking at it right before COVID hit. Well, you did that series, that yeah, the television show. Yeah, fearless. And I enjoyed that. And I would do it again and there is a magic. Ayy. connection also an audio visual component if you want to show photographs or video. Sure.

That is very hard, if not impossible, to replicate stuff. I also just like having I think having an audience is a lot of fun. Well think about what Oprah It's like being an athlete and having to compete. It's going from training to competing. Yeah. And since I don't do live very often, I get a cheap thrill out of it. Yeah. Uh, but what were you saying about Oprah? Well, I'm just saying that she was able to break down I mean, a lot of the intimate stuff that came out

was because they were sitting across from each other, right? You felt like you were just with her during that moment. Why don't you do six months out of the year out here? A little studio, a little series. It could be cool. Maybe maybe one month. No, but it was that that tax shit sucking about it. Can I just say I think it's so funny. to talk to all the people moving to Austin or I shouldn't say all the people. I don't talk to all the people. When I talk to people and you're in some mixed company and they're all these tax refugees from California and you're like, So guys, yeah, how'd you decide on Austin? They're like, oh man, well the barbecue and

flowers and you know, I really like armadillos and all I just thought, well, I really need to invest in a customized AI driven tech enabled cowboy boot business. That's what I thought. And I and I ask myself where's the best such business? Oh it's in Austin. So blah blah blah blah blah. And they dance around the deck. They wanted to I one of my Stupid. Kind of old Muppet. Like up in the balcony, like yelling at

The other kinder Muppets. Is I'll see like how long I can push. Until they say it's for the taxes. Yeah, yeah. Just I'll see like just how many contortionist Circus electric. Yeah, yeah, they're gonna go through before they're finally like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. I mean, yeah, whatever. Like my company was going public six months later and just thought it'd be a good idea. I at least know a dozen people that have moved. To Texas, just for the taxes.

Oh, for sure. I moved in two thousand seventeen and I wanted to move there right after college. But the fact of the matter is I moved to Austin because I wanted to leave a scene also. I mean there are tons of reasons, but I remember you were in SF, right? Yeah. And I was kind of getting burnt out. I was done for a couple years before I left. Then I got there And then Covid happened and what I thought was gonna take like five to eight years happened in eighteen months. And now Austin is a scene. And it's like

Fuck. And I don't know if you want to keep this in or not, but like there's one time where you're like You move to Austin kinda hoping to kinda like get away from that shit. Yeah. And then you're going to coffee shops and like recognizing you and just being like you're like, Fuck, I just want to kinda be some peace. You know, and it's uh You're hearing tech conversations over. It's tech. It's the tech stuff. Yeah. Because if somebody listens to the podcast and they say hi, honestly, there are days when I need it. Like it feels good. But I'll t I'll paint a picture.

If I'm this this like actually happened to me something very similar to this. If however I like spot a guy in a man bun who has more tattoos than like a Brazilian MMA fighter who's been to prison. And has like an ayahuasca t shirt on and is wearing like a bitcoin bracelet. And comes over to me and he's like Yo, bro.

Yeah. Well, I used to listen to your stuff, but I'm more of a Lex Friedman fan. I'm like, what is this? Lex Friedman, who's actually a great podcaster. But somebody says this to me and I'm like What is this interaction about? Like this is such a bizarre interaction. That like archetype. Which is at the nexus of a bunch of circles, including something called conspirituality. Whoever came up with that.

High five, one of the best words ever, but this like con spirituality that seems to have Taken as its HQ. Austin? You started this show. Drives me cuckoo bananas. I I did not start the con spirituality. No, but you were one of the first people I heard talking about ayahuasca and shit.

Well, yeah, that's true. And then as soon as something is popular enough that people are doing it because it's popular, then I'm like, I wanna just exit stage left. Yeah. I saw this piece in the New York Post about Socialite using ayahuasca to do God knows what, and it's just the same status bullshit. The cars, the good The goodies that you show to your friends, like all the status stuff that drives me

Completely nuts. And uh look, I'm sure I play some of those games myself because we're human and we all play some of those games. I I don't know that you do. Like I know you pretty well, I've never seen you drive a crazy car. No. You always have shitty cars. Yeah.

Yes, I do. It's true. It's true. And yeah, I don't in that way I don't play any of those games. Uh or I try not to. And your houses have always been very reasonable. Yeah. Yeah, they're modest. You know? You have a private jet, but then Yeah, you know. Aside from my fleet of gull, the gulf gold streams. Very reasonable. So As soon as

Especially with the psychedelic stuff. God, it makes me like so sad on some level that The fucking monkeys can't help but like soil their own home over and over again. It's just like, oh guys, come on. Like this one thing. Can we not turn this into Like a

Kicking it with the Kardashians, keeping up with Whoever the hell Is Your next door neighbor and uh because like my Instead of

This sort of sideways glance making sure that Someone has noticed you're hot. New like Bugatti. Now it's like oh Oh well, you had a good shaman experience. Let me tell you about my shaman. And it's like

Jerkin off. Stupid game. And um I still have never done the uh The actual ayahuasca. I gotta do that one time with you. I'd love to.

Yeah, we can talk about it. We can talk about it. I mean I I know you'd give me the authentic shit. I don't want that like bullshit. I'm gonna go do it. I'm just gonna be like hold on, let me hop on Craigslist. Find somebody good. Give me a second. Casual encounters, does that make sense? I don't know how they're advertising these days. I will say, just as a quick note, with ayahuasca specifically I talk so many more people out of using well, this is broadly speaking. out of using psychedelics, then I

have ever talked into using psychedelics. I think that's something that a lot of folks listening may not realize. That's I mostly disqualify or discourage people from doing ayahuasca or Any psychedelic.

It just depends a lot on the specifics for me because these things are so strong. Mm-hmm. And they can be s they can be incredibly destabilizing. I've been there. And after I did that high dust mushrooms very Amazing experience and definitely therapy like a shit ton like they tell you all compressed in this little thing. But for two or three days after I was just kind of like

Ooh, emotions were all over the place, you know? It's like it's not Just smooth sailing from the second you get done, you know. The chemicals are gotta rebalance and shit. Yeah, and you're Increasing plasticity. So if you take Like you just imagine that you have like this huge

Let's just say Maybe not huge, like volleyball sized. ball of Plato. And you have to heat it to be able to shape it. And

That's your brain and then you heat it and depending on all the inputs And stimuli. Positive and negative. That enter your life or that you allow to enter your life over the subsequent

handful of days or even weeks. will shape how that drives. And it's not automatically for the better. So Long way of of saying.

Definitely do your homework. This stuff has become so popular and I'm excited about the therapeutic potential. I'm excited about the Potential for examining. In ways that have been effectively impossible before for a lot of technological reasons. We will begin to Ask and answer questions about the mind and consciousness.

itself that we have not even been able to scratch the surface of even twenty years ago. I think psychiatry is gonna fundamentally change in a lot of really core ways, right? I mean fundamental core kind of redundant, but you get the idea that that some of the tectonic plates under which psychiatry rests currently are gonna shift very dramatically. And I'm excited about that. Yeah.

Speaking of which you kinda we haven't even hit any of our topics that we're gonna talk about today. Well let me ask you before we move on. Yeah, like it was gonna be in line with that, but it yeah. Yeah, we'll get there. We'll get there. Now that you gave me one quarter of a drink. I love it. I'm on a roll. Uh I may or may not have had some other chocolates. Oh that's right. The little chocolate before we got started. I did not have that. But in any case. Well that would be the most the fat that would be like Cat shit sandwich. All right. Why would you want to do? Say ayahuasca. What would the

Whole day. Potentially. Well, I mean, for me I have had a few experiences on psychedelics that Every

drug that you take is a little bit different, right? Like you have a different door open. High dose weed is gonna feel di very different than high dose mushrooms'cause it'd feel very different than microdosed acid, which I'm just talking about the things that I've I've tried. So I imagine there's another door to open there. Poofing ketamine, different door. Ketamine very different. I've done I've done ketamine before, um in a therapeutic setting and it was it was it was actually the most pleasant like chill thing I've ever done. Like it's like just chill, you know. Watch out for the long term brain damage if you guys ever do it. We'll we'll get into that in another episode. Yeah, so

For me I'm trying to figure out And this is on to my first point about my my seven day retreat that I'm gonna do. Um that was a good head fake. Did you answer my question? No, no, no. What I'm saying is that I I wanna I wanna open as many doors as possible during this lifetime. Why not? You know? Okay. Alright.

Okay. It's not to say I'm gonna go in in and stick to one door and be down that path for the next, you know, six months, but why not just try it? Like I'm we're gonna be dead in forty years. True. Despite all the people. Yeah. Skipping lunch and dinner in hopes of peaking out an extra three years. So you were gonna segue. Opening doors.

Yeah, so The problem, Tim, I I have with a lot of these compounds is that I I feel like they're very prescriptive And I worry That You get these changes, don't get me wrong, and and granted I don't have near as much I don't have as much data as you do on this on this front, but

For me I I felt this like Nice relief for like a month, you know. And then it kinda creeps back in to to the normal steady state of the things, right? And so the plasticity I I wonder is it like something that you have to do multiple times and like how many times and then

Dan, on the on the worst case of this, you hear about these people That they just don't ever come back. And they're the lifelong journeyers. That are they they these you know psychonauts that And you're like Are you killing more brain cells? Are you really re reworking the plastic there? Are you just kinda like

Yeah. Yeah, or if Took that Plato and just like Just threw it down on sand dune. Exactly. So for me, I've been you know, I've we've mentioned this many times on the show, is like I I I love the meditation side of things. I think of it as a kind of a Trying to reach the same peak but in a more kind of steady state, like everyday Micro dose way.

that eventually over a decade or longer of practice you'll eventually get to some amazing state of consciousness. I'm n obviously not there yet, but I'm doing my first Seven day Silent retreat. At uh Mountain Cloud Zen Center, which I'm very excited about. Henry's Place? Henry's Place, yeah. Henry Shuchman. Yeah. Nice.

Fantastic teacher. So why why do This retreat. What are you hoping to gain from it? Well If you read a lot of the Zen books that are out there. A lot of the whether it be the three pillars of Zen or Zen the Authentic Gate

A lot of the big unlocks that happen with meditation are not just through fifty minutes a day, which then is typically twenty five minutes of seated meditation, five minutes of walking, and then another twenty five minutes of seed. It actually happens at these sessions, they these like proper retreats, you know. Were you doing days? meditating and you really go deep. It allows your mind to really calm and you've done this. You've been there.

So I just wanna go. I wanna see where What's there? Like in this spirit of unlocking these other doors and trying new things, like Hell yeah. Like let's let's go. Let's go. You know LFG. Zen.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Are you concerned at all? Do you have any worries? How are your knees gonna be? Uh. I use a uh kind of Japanese style seated bench for meditation versus the folded legs. Kinda like a Sibbean. It's got a little

Like a adapter on it. Yeah. Exactly. So I'm gonna go and do that. Um Touchy magic wand. Yeah, exactly. I don't even know what you're saying, but that's great. I'm used to sitting for for an hour day like that. So that's that's not it. I don't know but you're gonna be going from an hour to how many hours? Like like it's gonna be like eight oring in your legs, you're fine. I I I'm really like I'm just roll back to your room. Yeah, I'm all in. I I just wanna do this. Very soon. Yeah. Although I do like Henry. Henry's amazing. For those of you who don't know, just a plug for Henry through via Sam.

Henry has a lot of his courses on the Waking Up app from Sam Harris, so you can you can check his stuff out there. Fantastic Zen teacher. Just a a good human, you know. Yeah, yeah, great guy. Very well spoken. He's been on twice. So for people who want to Taste test. of Doctor Shookman. Your your second interview with him around the coins was just brilliant, dude. Oh good. It was fun. Yeah. Yeah. Because that was part of the intention for the first episode, as you know. Yeah. And then we got hooked on all these other topics and didn't come back to it.

And I was like, All right, we need to go around to it. Cool. Yeah, I love it. Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront. There's a lot happening in the US and global economies right now. You see it every day in the news. Are we in a recession? Is it a bear market? What's going on with inflation? What's going to happen? I can't tell the future. I don't know anyone who can, but I can tell you about a great place to earn more on your savings, and that's Wealthfront. Wealthfront is an app that helps you save and invest your money.

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This was a paid endorsement by Wealthfront. I So Anything you've enjoyed watching recently? Yes.

I was gonna get into uh some of the I figure we could do'cause it's been a while since we've hung out. And I'm sure, you know, with Covid and everything else we've they would hit some good movies. I was gonna give you like my my favorite search terms. Five bullet movie list.'Cause I know you love five bullets. Actually have five bullets right here. Uh I do. How about my five bullet movie list and then you tell me yes or no, whether you like these, you whether you've seen them. Oh great. And then you do the same for me. You got five? I don't I do not have five. I've one. All right.

But good job. But it has six episodes. Technically. I think I have six and you have five. Okay. Six more. All right. So the new top gun. Fucking great. Fantastic. Can you believe that he did all that for you? I mean the uh the fact that he is still

doing so many of his own stunts. It's insane. Incredible. And it's it's kinda makes you want to pick up Scientology. You know you're in the right place. Yeah, exactly. The the real reason that Kevin moved to LA. That is not the case. I I thought was fantastic. Saw it in IMAX. I hadn't seen anything on IMAX in a long time and I was like, all right, look if we're gonna do it. Let's actually do it. I really went into it being like, Oh, Jesus, I hope they don't ruin this, you know, like another top gun. Is this gonna be cheesy? And I walked away being like, Damn, that was good. It was really good. It was fantastic. And There have been also a lot of filmmakers who have enjoyed it, not that that's my indicator I just thought it'd be fun to go see uh

Old school. All the tropes. Yeah. Like use all the cliches because they work. The music. So good. Just you know exactly what you're signing up for. Yeah. And like having something that reliable And uplifting is like really reassuring in

A world of Increasingly chaotic uncertainty. It's like yeah. You know when you go to see fucking Maverick, it's not gonna end with like an orphan kid dying. You know that that's not the ending. All right. So the next next movie, uh The Price of Everything. You seen that? The price of everything. Is this an art doc? Yes.

Yes. I saw a long time. Yeah, I saw it quite a few years ago. Yeah. I really, really enjoyed it. So while you you've seen it much more recently, though. Yeah. I mean it's it basically just gives you if you're ever curious kind of the behind the scenes of the contemporary art world. What goes on at auction. how these artists make their art, they actually which is crazy, they actually hire Like people to do the art for them do, yeah. Some of them do.

It's just a crazy behind the scenes view of the art world. And for someone that's into NFTs, it was just like I learned a lot. So how it is a it is a wild romp through contemporary art and If you're in the camp. Uh Let's just say

Advocate. Right, you really enjoy contemporary art. You'll get a lot out of it. And also if if you think that much of contemporary art is complete horseshit, you will also get a lot out of it because neither camp is going to be disappointed. Yeah. Hey, love, can I have uh little slippers of something you find?

Thank you. Not a beer, just like any wine or anything. So the present right the next one, Elvis. The new Elvis film. Oh look at that. There we go.

Bam. Look at that bling. So the new Elvis film, so here's the deal. I don't care about Elvis. Who cares about Elvis, right? Like I I didn't think No, seriously I I was like Elvis, old people, blah blah blah. You watch Elvis, this this new movie. Why did you go to it?

Tony Conrad actually told me it was a fantastic. All right. And so I put it on and I was blown away. Because Elvis Was a misfit. Like uh he he grew up in a black neighborhood. That's why how he got a lot of that kind of soul vibe like the he that came through in his music. And then also

He was like thrown in jail. Because of the way he moved his hips and shit. Like that these were the times back then, right? And so like he got on stage and would like just like make his finger move and stuff to like like get the crowd going and shit. Cause he couldn't move his hips, otherwise he'd be thrown in jail. It's a brilliant story. This shows how he got hooked on drugs. And When ever I thought of Elvis, I thought this like

Vegas singer. Overweight, passed away, oh I don't know much about I learned a lot and he reminds me of just Any other icon I I can see why he's so massive. I l I it was like a history lesson in a movie. So highly recommend it. Yeah. Yeah. I'll check it out. It looked like the cinematography was beautiful just based on the preview. Fantastic. Yeah, I I was not expecting to love an Elvis movie. That is not me, right? But I I walked away being like he was a badass. A lot cooler than I thought. Yeah.

Next one, everything everywhere all at once. Yes. So good. It was great. I'll give you a bit of trivia, maybe if you have not

I was watching it and Michelle Yo's husband. From within Thirty seconds I was like, I know that guy. Goonies. Yes, exactly. I was like

Data from the Goonies within like thirty seconds. I'm just so glad that that guy Yeah. I mean he could have ended up in a million different places and the fact that he's I'm sure he's maybe been in been in maybe many other films, but to end up in this As such a I don't wanna say sleep or hit, but like unexpected I would imagine mega hit.

So I I made Daria watch it and she was just like, What the hell am I watching? It's a weird ass movie. It's a super bizarre movie. If you like really weird shit and you're just like Your jam is kind of like Funky, indie, odd, like it it you walk away being like, What the hell did I just watch? But it's brilliant. It's brilliant at the end of the day. Oh yeah, I really know. The jumping for the dildo seam. Well, you remember that when they're trying to race?

Oh yes. Yeah I do. Yeah. In the middle of a fight scene. Exactly. Yeah. It's ridiculous. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot to it. It's a strange movie. So my last one on list of ones that I watched recently that was for here's number five, airplane, the original airplane. Oh, have you watched that recently? No. And it would never get made today, which is probably part of what makes it funny. It's cringe, like bad, like really sexist, and there's a whole whole lot of jokes in there. that you look at and you're like, How the hell do they make this? But it's also Like there's so many iconic moments and and and bits that when you watch it

Yeah, I heard you spitting in the back of the glass there. It's just it's fantastic to watch again. Airplane. Yeah. Right. All right. What's your number what's your one movie that you have to recommend? I'll share an oldie. It's not as old as the airplane, but if people have not seen I recently re watched it, spirited away.

Mm. Studio Jibli. Which at the time was headed up by a Miyazaki Hayao. My favorite movie of all time. Really?

It just I watch it and I'm like, This is good, you know. It just has all the ingredients. I think I also watched it when I was fifteen or sixteen. It might have been a few years later, but The coming of age. And hero's journey of

Chihiro, who then gets renamed Sun. And there's a whole story and sequence behind that. The fact that that she goes from so weak to so self confident and strong. The way that is woven in

To A fantasy backdrop. Including so many of my favorite things, right? I mean there's like Japanese bathhouse. Bunch of weird gods. You know, bunch of creepy like ghosts.

type phantoms. Yeah. Like Kaunasir or No Face is one of the characters. And I thought the animation and the backgrounds and everything, when you consider particularly that they're hand painted. Was spectacular. It is spectacular. So I've rewatch that. I'm also very interested now in world building. I'm doing a bunch of fiction writing right now. Tell us more about that. Yeah. Yeah, we'll get into that. And uh Are you gonna talk about that today or not? Uh

No, I'll save it. I'll save it. But I I will say I'm bouncing around a little bit. So Spirited Away and then recently read a classic, I think it was published in nineteen sixty eight. Initially called the Wizard of Earthsea. by Ursula K. Le Guin. And it's incredible. It's such

beautifully Crafted book. The language is really Not

Even very basic senses, she'll make beautiful. And without The Wizard of Earth C

Harry Potter doesn't exist. Or at least wizarding schools. As we've come to think about them. There's so many components of fantasy worlds that we take for granted now that would not have existed were it for

The Wizard of Use and then prior to that I also listened to um I know I'm jumping around a bit, the Fellowship of the Ring for the first time. So I had not read Lord of the Rings. I had not read any J.R. Tolkien And When you consume

those two books, especially Tolkien stuff. You realize how many of the archetypes that we just assume have been around forever because they're so ubiquitous. Came out of this guy's head. One question there, did you see the new Amazon series? The new Amazon series. Oh, the uh I can't remember the the name of it. I've seen the trailer pop up because they're promoting the hell out of it. I spent a billion dollars on the series. Crazy. I haven't watched yet, but I will.

Come And as far as my other item. My one item. I'll mention it. I mentioned it to Daria earlier because I think It's so spectacular. It's a limited series or a six part, I wanna say, animated series.

although it combines three D and two D animation in a really innovative, spectacular way, is arcane. Which you heard me mention earlier as well. And arcane. is based on a game I have never played, but many people do, League of Legends, or it's based on some characters from this game. And riot games. And there's a a separate behind the scenes series, which is the making of Arcane called Bridging the Rift, which I'm also watching.

And They just threw everything at this. And the animation studio in uh France for Tisch. That helped to create the Not just the visual components, there's a lot to it.

And the musical is this stream composition behind it is on Netflix. Oh cool. And every frame of this series. Could be a beautiful large NFT or piece of artwork that you would put on a wall. I love that. I mean it is staggeringly detailed and gorgeous.

So I I'm just recommending to everybody, I think. And they spent nine figures on it. I don't know if it was a hundred million, two hundred or more, but the fact that they were willing to dedicate after a lot of testing, it wasn't haphazard, but willing to dedicate that type of resources to a six part animated Series. Oh man. It's It's it's really gorgeous. And it also shows

a contemporary example of world building. Even though there's world building, there is world building in League of Legends, because I've learned more about the game even though I haven't played it. When you're creating six hours of content on a handful of characters, you have to flesh them out. Sure. And create narrative arcs.

that intertwine in a way that you just don't necessarily have to in a video game. So Highest recommendation. Can I Pick your brain a little bit here, or just maybe get you to divulge a little bit here. You've mentioned now a couple of times about doing a little bit of writing in this genre. You're not doing a book.

No. But you're doing something I think now's the time to start kind of teasing things out a little bit. Can you just tell us what w what what is Tim working on these days? Like and you don't have to go into a lot of detail. But can you can you give us a little bit of like I'm I'm fleshing out doing this or maybe pushing here or can you Here's what I'll say. I'll say that I'm not gonna divulge too much, but I will say that

I've been experimenting with fiction for about A year and a half, two years. Well you did the NFT with with us, which is great. So my first N F T experiment, thanks to your encouragement, was A short fiction piece called If you wanna start a war. And

I really enjoyed the process of putting that together. And Specifically the writing process of Playing with fiction and in that particular case it was very strongly based On

Real events. It's fiction, but a lot of it was based on real people and real events, which makes it even spookier if people want to check that out. Uh and we did that through Grails, which was great. And I'm continuing to work those muscles after a lot of conversations with people like Steven Pressfield and others who in who have been very encouraging.

I may have some stuff to show in the next few months. Cool. I'll put it that way. But it has been a great excuse to read And watch. A lot of fiction. sci fi and and fantasy primarily.

And have learned so much. I've ended up going really deep. So with Ursula K. Le Guin, for instance, who is a huge influence on Neil Gaiman. whose writing I've loved for a very long time, including books that I've recommended probably on previous random shows many years ago. Like the graveyard book. Which is just fantastic. If people only read nonfiction and you wanna

Easy gateway drug. Try that out. The audio book by Neil Gamin is fantastic. In any case, so I'm I'm working as I'm thinking about fiction through these influences and lineages, right? So I'm

Looking at Neil Gaiman. Like all sorts of aspects of his process and writing. And then I hear him talking about Ursula K. Le Guin. Then I go on Twitter and ask people if I'm only gonna read one of her books, which one should I read? get a whole host of answers. Start with the Wizard of Earth C. That leads me somewhere else. Then I watch a PBS documentary on her life and then learn about A, B, and C and just

Following the breadcrumbs. Yeah. So Tim, I've seen you like a while. I've seen you like this of a handful of times. Yeah. I've seen you write a handful of books now. We've been friends that long. Yeah. And I see when you go down rabbit holes

And I I n I see this I see this. And I I can recognize it. And it means that you're Up to something big. It really does. It looks like you're having a good time. That makes me happy. Yeah. Thanks, man. Yeah. Yeah. I'm ex I'm excited. And it's I feel like I'm Awakening

muscles or Creative processes that have been dormant for A long time. It it feels like this is um Potentially a new way for you to

Flex your creativity in a in a different and something that you've been it's it sounds like this is something you've had a passion for for a very long time. Mm and now is the first time you're like, Okay, I'm gonna go for it here. Yeah, totally. And it it it brings back So many And there's a value here, right? It's not just simple nostalgia. There it brings back so many emotional imprints. They were powerful and positive when I was a kid.

And especially given some of the darker stuff that I've talked about in my childhood, it's easy for my psyche to way The negative. more heavily. Right, to weigh the dark stuff more heavily. But by say Going then into

Some of the these corners of the fiction world It's brought me back to, for instance Right now I'm rereading The never ending story.

By Michael Enda, I mean, which was my favorite book as a kid. And I remember I used to get in trouble. I would pull pranks and stuff and get sent to detention. And Detention. in elementary school was in a few places. I always tried to dodge the nurse's office'cause it's so boring. I wanted to get sent to the library. And then I would go get sent to the library. And

I started reading the Nevering Story and I fell so in love with it that I took it out of its spot. and I hid it in a different corner of the library so that nobody else would take it out. So I wouldn't get interrupted. And then I would get into detention again. And I would know exactly where it was hidden so I could go back and Continue reading. An evering story. And

I don't know if you've ever had this experience. Maybe you could some people might have this experience if for instance they saw Aladdin as a kid and then they go and watch it as an adult and they're like, Oh my God, Robin Williams had a lot of humor for adults. Mm-hmm. And I didn't notice it as a kid. Similarly, with a lot of these fiction books, like you read The Wizard of Earthsea or you read The Never Ending Story, there is a lot of deep philosophical Discussion and A lot of insight and you might even say truth.

that is really applicable, maybe even more so to adults who can Grok that piece. Don't you don't you love that when you reread something a little bit later? Yeah, and it just hits you in a completely different way. Yeah, totally. It's the best. Yeah. It's a lot of fun. So I'm lit up. Yeah. I feel good. That's awesome. Love to hear that. Should we I've got a couple I know we're coming up on an hour here, but I've got a couple more quick little things that are fun. It's time to go to bed. It's nine forty five. Time to have my warm milk and go to bed. Put on my overalls.

Couple more champers left. Thank you. Tim needs a little splash or something, too. Carbonated water is great for me. Um

So this is a fun one actually. This is completely off topic, but I thought it was just it's such a fun little hack. I love how this is off topic for the random show. Yeah, it's thank you very much. Really appreciate it. So one of the things that I love about the random show is we can bring up anything and it's just like It's like what are we excited about? What little hacks are we finding in we used to do a lot of that back in the day. Now that we're all lazy. Yeah, we're like tired. We were joking about this before we were live. We're gonna talk about like what cholesterol medicine we're on and shit. Yeah, I was just saying the twenty year old versions of us would be so disappointed. So disappointed. So

Inflation is is a bitch right now, right? It's it's kinda going crazy. One of the things that It's like thirty four dollar avocado toast here in Santa Monica. We gotta go tomorrow, by the way. I know it's a great place. So one of the things that I've always generally avoided are just bonds, government bonds and in in because the the interest rates have been shit, right? So

They have the something called the I bonds. And so I bonds I letter I. Yeah, let her I. And so I bonds. Dumb dump question. Yeah. I bonds. Yeah, exactly. EYE. Not the EYA. So the the letter I bonds. Um you can buy directly on treasurydirect.gov, which is the government website. And I've done this over the last couple of years. And it it's great. They max out at ten K, so the most you can put in is ten grand.

And you can do it for you, your spouse can have one, and then also you can do it for your kids as well. And right now the Ibon is based on the current inflation plus interest on top of that. So you get nine point six two. Percent.

From the government. Mm. Like That's good. Right. And and granted that can change with inflation and all that, but like

I'll lock in that rate any day. Like I'll go for that for sure. So If you have a hundred dollars you can do it. This is applicable to pretty much everyone, right? No not investment advice, but No, it's totally investment advice. But if you use code Kev Kev. Yeah, exactly. And identify as child of the No, it's just it's it's one of those things where it's like dude when you talk about a good year in the stock market. You're talking, you know, ten percent is what you're kinda hoping for on average. Yeah, for sure. And and that's with a lot of risk, right? And the fact that you can get a US government bond

And it's gonna yield you nine point six two right now, like that's that's just like free money, so Well I mean. If the government defaults on their bonds, come after me. But I was like, Well, yeah, we'll have marauder trucks on the roads. At that point it'll be hard to find, Kevin. Exactly. But anyway, yeah, this thought was worth bringing up. I've never I attention. Clearly if I'm asking if it's I bond with an EY, I've never heard of it either. Right there with you folks. I got two today for my kids and I'm just gonna like put that as car money for the future. Yeah.

Just let it go and then when it expires I'll go and reinvest it and yeah, it's it's good. Cool. I bond. I bonds. With an eye. So I got a couple of I'm not sure this is kinda as a hack, but I'll just I'll lump it in.

Or include it because it relates to thematically the stuff that's going on in my mind. And that is I watched a Master class. So company's master class. They have all these various instructional to people in every discipline you can imagine, including a number that I've already mentioned, like Neil Gaiman.

And they had one with Amy Tan, who's a very famous novelist. And the first few segments in particular I found Incredibly compelling. And she's so eloquent also. She's she seems to speak in finis prose, and I only know a few people like that. And it always just blows my mind.

That they're able to do that. Sam Harris would be another one waking up up. Side note. I don't think Sam would mind me asking. At one point. I was listening to his many meditations. And I listened to one and

I texted him and I said, Sam, is there any chance I could get the text for like the X, Y, and Z episode? And he's like What do you mean the text? And I'm like the script that you used for recording the A, B and C part of that episode and he goes, Oh, I don't I don't use scripts.

And I was like, Oh Yeah, you and I are just different animals. Different species entirely. So the That's impressive if he just wings it because it's good. It's good content. I mean he is Yeah, he he just has different hardware and it's not just a it's not born that way. I recognize it's also a a skill that he's developed. But Amy Ten. Similar. Very, very well spoken and extremely good at explaining how she approaches different facets of fiction. And

how she has pulled from her own life. She also has an entire segment where she goes through all of the Rejection letters or at least some of the Most notable of the rejection letters that she got in the beginning. Just Rejection after rejection after rejection. What was cool

That you don't see, at least I didn't see when I got A lot of my rejections is Fiction editors. in a number of cases gave her great feedback. On her

Manuscript. So they read the whole thing and then they were like, This is What you could do to improve this part and here are three other things you could do to really strengthen this aspect of it. You just At least in my experience, don't get that. from rejections and nonfiction. So it was it was cool to see not just how she

Thought about responding to criticism? She's actually really grateful for a lot of the letters. But also how much she gained. From the feedback and then Mm.

Used to iterator fiction. Which is Just fantastic. Do you do the monthly on that master class or do you do the yearly? I did neither. In this particular case.

I got a freebie? A freebie on like Delta Airlines or United or something. Oh I just keep getting billed for that shit. It drives me. I always think I'm gonna like watch a bunch of them, you know? And I finally I'm still paying for match.com and because I could not figure out how to cancel the thing. And it's like I haven't used match in like Twenty. So you're welcome, Matt.com. Yeah. I still get fucked on just there's like two or three things I just can't figure out how to cancel. Because seriously. And and you know what's funny is they I figured it out. They only bill you close to midnight?

Because they know the push notifications come through. The other night I was up late. And it was like eleven thirty and I had one of those pop down and it was the yearly thing. Yeah. And I'm like, you fucker. And then I went to bed and I don't even know who it is. I forgot. But they they got me. You know? Hey, that's growth hacking's for the Uh let's see here. So physical training. I've been thinking a lot about physical training. I have You've got a gut now, dude. I have a little bit of a gut. I'm not Are you kidding me? No, you're like you're like fat from Austin Powers. Let me see it. We'll see.

Okay, I'm definitely skinnier than you, dude. What are you telling you Oh no, no Let me feel that. Okay, you're a little skinnier. I'm not proud. And I'm not gonna blame it on age, although I guess I will say things are slowing down. That's for sure. Yeah. But I have Actually

lost a decent amount of this baby fat. Using a couple of baby fat anymore. It's geriatric fat. With a few simple things. One is a sled. So I have something called the XPO trainer. That is a mechanically Assisted or I should say mechanically resisted. Sled. So you don't have to load it with plates. And it's on inflatable

I think they're inflatable. One may be solid rubber. Tires so you can use them on, say, a driveway. And I've been using the XPO trainer plus some jump rope. Which is very minimal. Yeah, I'll I I do that for like five or ten minutes. Doesn't it kill you?

I did jump rope recently. I was like dead afterwards. It's hard, yeah. Yeah. That's kind of the point in the beginning. Yeah, I know, but like I I thought it was gonna be like some schoolyard shit. Oh no, it's hard. It's hard. So I'll do the I'll do the jump rope, then the XPO trainer, and then Calibbles? And I have Some alternation, but most mornings I will do some combination of those things. And I've been

doing I mean it's pretty easy for me to do intermittent fasting, so I'm just doing Late lunch, early dinner. Typically. Do we get one of those croissants in the morning I was telling you about? I mean, look, man, I haven't seen you in what, like twenty seven years. Yeah. I mean, if I use travel as vacation equals I can eat butter cookies anytime I want, I'm gonna turn I will turn into fat bastard from Austin Powers. Which is not the look I'm going for. Especially like imagine bald fat bastard. That's not good. No, you don't want that. No. All right.

What else you got here? I think the last thing for me was that uh I did one of these full body scans. Right? Oh yeah, so oh yeah, Darry is telling me it is true. I do I do super No, we're not cutting a video of me doing supernatural. I do a VR workout called Supernatural.

Three times a week. Have you tried this? I have no idea what you're talking about. Oh my God. We g have to get Tim to do it right after this, right? Yes. You're gonna freak out, dude. Okay. It's really good. I hate VR. It's stupid. V is amazing. Well, I I love that you've been like short VR for like the last ten years. And I've made good money being short of VR but You you now own a VR device. Yeah. Well, I've had a VR device. You have to play with all the latest shit if you're a technologist. Yeah. I'm just saying that like it's dumb except for this app. This app's amazing. So supernatural is a is it's uh like a you have two lightsabers.

And you have to slice shit in the air. And it sounds like it's not Fruit Ninja. It's like way better than that. It's done in music. It's choreographed music. It's amazing. Tim, you're loads and I mean lightsabers, chopping things. Yeah, you paragraph to music. I mean that's three for three for me. Anyway, supernatural is how I get my um my hit in every every almost like every other day, pretty much. So so more more slicing and less jump rope. Yeah. We'll try more croissants. We're gonna try it afterwards.

Um, so that's my big thing. The other thing I was gonna say is I did one of those full body MRI scans called Penova. Yeah, I should talk about this. This is something I need to get on. Yeah, I you know what, honestly it was like I don't know if it was my mom getting cancer. I think I did it before that, but like I was just one of those things where I got to the stage in life where I I had a couple of little girls and I'm like, uh you know Tia was telling me. He was like, Hey, you know, you can do these you're at the age now where it makes sense. See if anything shows up.

They can detect it's something like eighty percent of cancers at stage one, which is amazing. Yeah. And so I was like, Okay, let's do it. So I went and did it two years ago. Came back. You know, all the standard stuff, like oh, we see this here, but it you know, that's normal, la like this is a little bit weird. You have an extra vertebrae, which I actually do, which is weird. So oh oh little vestigial tail. Yeah, exactly. A bunch of shit like that. So uh I I do that and then I go for year two.

I go and get the scan again. And they call me up and they're they're like Yeah, it turns out you have a little brain aneurysm. A little s little small brain aneurysm. And I'm like I'm like, what the fuck? Like this is crazy. Okay, tell me more. And

Then After the fact, like a a month later, Or not a month later, but a few weeks later, my doctor uh calls them and says, Hey what do we see on the first scan? They found it on the first scan as well. It hadn't changed.

Which is great. Yeah. And it's super tiny. It's the smallest my doctor said If they hadn't been using the latest tech, they wouldn't even have detected it at all because it was so small. So it's only one millimeter and they don't treat them till they get to seven millimeters. Yeah. So it's like it's totally fine. You wanna keep your blood pressure low and all that, but It's also

It's weird because in some sense like you want to detect those stage one cancers. But there's a lot of false positives. Not that this is a false positive. It's something to pay attention to. Certainly changing my dietary actions in terms of keeping sodium low and like lowering my blood pressure. Yeah. But It's something you should do. Which is why we're having croissants and coffee to make it. Exactly. Well, I mean that's like fuck it. But you know, it's it's I mean, was that I would imagine that to be terrifying. Yeah.

It's forty five minutes, so it's fast. Yeah they not the procedure. The review of the results. Yeah, I mean you go through it and I have a couple of spots in my brain and they they told me you're allowed one per decade. And so like you're fine, you have, you know, two or three or whatever, that's fine. I'm like, Okay, this still doesn't sound good. Like don't worry. It's like a bruised apple, but that's fine. Yeah, and then they're like they're like your lymph nodes this is the first scan. They're like your lymph nodes are really swollen on the left side. I'm like, Cool? Like what does that mean? And they're like, Did you get your your Covid vaccine on that side? I'm like, Yeah, I did. And they're like, Okay, that's why.

And then that would turn out to be fine. And then You know, they found like Some other shit. Like there's a little bit of like a a little tail. No, there's like a a little like like I have this little tiny bulge in my right nut sack. It's just it's kinda like the the little stringy thing that connects to the sack. Kind of bulged out a little bit. And they're like, that's totally normal. If I cancer, you're fine, blah, blah. So like, you know, it's just little shit like that. It's like cool. Oh my God. I can't wait until our random shows when we're like in our sixties and seventies. It's just gonna be a list of injuries and prostate complaints. Oh my God. So I let me just rewind so I make sure. No, just make sure I'm hearing you correctly. So were you pissed that they did not

Time for changed, yeah. That they didn't spot it first time around. I think it was it was so small that they just they have different It's not a radiologist, whoever it is that reviews it. It's probably a radiologist. I think it is. I think the first problem was was like this is so insignificant, I don't even need to call it out. And the second one called it out for for and they were just like and then they compared the notes and it was fine. This is the story I haven't told him.

Friend of mine. Went in, had a scan. They found a growth in his brain. Non cancerous. A decent size, operated, removed it, he's fine.

But He didn't even know he had it. And he was just going in for for a thing and it was growing. Yeah. And and it saved his life, most likely. Yeah, that's that's wild. And so it's shit like that. And the the radiologist when I talk to him He said the number he goes, I don't really drink. He goes, but the number of bottles of wine I get in the mail from people that are like, You save my life because you found this at stage one or stage two.

I don't know. It's just one of those things where Get get your diagnostics, folks. And I mean do it more free I Hesitate to say this, but like don't don't push out the interval. If you're supposed to get something every five years If anything, get it more frequently. Don't push it out. So I've Have recently had the uh

opposite experience with a friend of mine who Went in for routine exam, stage four cancer. Terminal. Holy shit. And I just uh spent several days with him and Not to cancer. Not because I don't want to give specifics just in case people like triangulate stuff, but

It's metastasized. And At this point, surgery, at least some types of surgery don't make any sense. And man, if you want a proof point for what someone can do with decades of meditation practice.

He is Incredibly A bit. He's super Happy.

He is As productive as he can be. He's spending a lot of time with loved ones, of course. But he is Consciously choosing Of all the decision trees.

A path of Gratitude and Not naive optimism, but optimism is in the sense of looking at everything as The glass half full. And

I was so inspired by this because I'm going through some hard stuff myself. And to see someone in those circumstances able to demonstrate that? Just blew my mind. And I've spent I know'em well enough and we've had enough interactions. I I know it is not an act. It is not an act.

And I'm really impressed because that's not automatically the case. I mean, there are people, including famous, famous meditators who are world famous teachers who on their deathbeds or in the process of going through hospice Just say over and over again to their closest friends, like I don't wanna die, I don't wanna die, I don't wanna die, and they're afraid, which is understandable. I might be that person. I mean certainly. I have no confidence that I would

End up. responding the way my friend is responding. But it's been Incredibly inspiring. Wow. Yeah, and it's certainly sad in its own way, but A real gift that he's also giving those around him.

Incredible. How how are you doing with dealing with all that? Uh w you mean with with his situation. Being a friend is having a friend go through something like that, you know? Uh Are you gonna see him again, do you think, before he passes, or is it something we're gonna do? I'd like to I would like to. I mean it's I I don't know how long the time horizon is. It's it's uh It may not be that long. I am

Doing well with it. Because of how he is able to choose to respond to This unfolding.

Story. Of course it's sat on a number of levels, but I mean, we're all we all have a one way ticket, as far as we know. You know. My my dad before he passed said there's no lease on life. He just like wanted to remind me of that. Like, you know, it's coming for all of us. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And it's and it's not something you want to think about all the time. Right. But

You think about it none of the time, you also have a problem. And this this has been a very strong reminder for me. It's like, Yeah. Get it together. You know, like Too much. Like have fun. Don't take everything seriously, but also

Realize that like every moment you have like this, not to get all cheesy, but it's like These are precious. Amazing moments. Yeah. Everybody's healthy. Yeah.

I think about that with my girls every day, dude. The kids. You know, um I had Sam Harris on the podcast a while ago, a couple of years ago, and we talked about the Buddhist monk that was sitting in a meditative pose. on the cover of Rage Against Machine. Yeah. Doused himself in

Gasoline. in defiance of local government and lit himself on fire and did not flinch. And this has been recorded. And there was pictures and everything else. Video too. Yeah.

Holy shit, you want to talk about meditation really working? Like, oh my God. Yeah. Yeah, I can't do that. Yeah. I could I could barely stay in a cold plunge this morning for three minutes.

So Yeah. I was in the salon today. I was like, Oh fifteen minutes again we can make it to twenty we're gonna go for it. Yeah, it is it I mean it's uh No, all these things are kind of I by all these things. I I guess I'm bookending some of our earlier discussion. touched on psychedelics and I mentioned psychiatry and these sort of tectonic plate shifts that I think are ha are currently underway, but will be most noticeable.

Five, ten years from now. And The types of feats that we're describing. all point to severe I think

under appreciation. for what we are capable of in terms of shaping Mind. And Consciousness.

Right, because lighting yourself on fire and not flinching should not be possible. No. Like clearly not even David Black. Yeah. No one wants to end up having to test that. Right. But There are a lot of outcomes that we're seeing, say, in treating various diagnoses related to I don't want to say mental illness, but psychiatric conditions that are considered intractable or extremely difficult to treat. And some of the outcomes that we're seeing, which are not solely produced through psychedelics. I don't want to make psychedelics sound like panacea of any type. They're not. They have s in some cases very significant risks. But it's it's clear that

Many of the paradigms. through which we've treated patients. specifically with any type of what we would consider mental illness. is is likely resting on a number of assumptions that are completely untrue. Yeah. And that's exciting. It's really exciting.

I remember our friend Doctor Will. Twenty years ago. Was Speaking about chemotherapy and said how barbaric it will look. In the future.

And it turns out that it's actually true. We have immunotherapy now. My mom's going through it. Like there's a lot of these things that are very, very promising and we're just like A few years away from some s really exciting breakthroughs. I'm not sure if you saw that. New York Times article about the uh it was like eight out of eight patients cured with this new type of immunotherapy and cancer. Did you see that? about this new type of immunotherapy that's just now coming out here soon. But I'd imagine the same is true for psychedelics, right? Like, you know, twenty years from now, they'll have honed it and figured out the right

Dose the right I mean they may even modify those molecules, like who knows where it's gonna go, but it's gonna be Exciting. It it is gonna be exciting. I Think the You know, we're all driven by

our beliefs, right, these thoughts we take to be true. And assumptions. Even Scientists are subject to this, right? I mean scientists are not robots. And so you have

Anyone. Doing anything. comes in with certain set of biases or biases. And In psychedelics you see also in the in the psychedelic for profit sector. You see a lot of

Motivated reasoning. Where you have a number of split camps and different kind of schisms within these communities. And one of them is between Camp A and Camp A believes

that many of the clinical outcomes for depression and PTSD and so on are driven by the content. Of an experience. And the narrative that you can restructure after you observe it for the first time, perhaps, right? The software that's behind many of your decisions. Blah blah blah blah blah. They think it's the content. In which case, if that is your belief and in an ideal world you would be able to test these things definitively, and many people are

making attempts at this, but it's it's really challenging. then you want enough workspace to allow all that to play out. So Let's just say psilocybin and having a session of four to six hours would be viewed as a feature and not a bug. Then you have Camp B.

Which is saying, Oh yeah, all those hallucinations, terrible side effects. Really what's happening is on this structural level and this type of XYZ is happening to this receptor and da da da and we can do all of that. If we change the molecule without the psychedelic effects and also press it into Like a thirty minute session. And that will copy and paste into our current medical

formatting much more easily. But there's a profit motive there, right? Because if you can scale something in that way. And reduce some of the quote unquote side effects. And also patent it. Yeah, and absolutely patent it. And then also Make it a drug that you need to take. At least twice a week or maybe even every day, instead of once a month or once every three months. That they're not.

It's not automatically a bad thing, but I just think it's important for folks to be aware of incentives and to track incentives. Right. 'cause then just turns into another a better antidepressant. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. It's not necessarily a bad thing. It depends on how the antidepressant is achieving its effects, right? And there are immediate changes that can be beneficial in a whole host of different situations with medicine generally speaking, right? So with the pharmacological intervention. It's like if you're if you're bleeding out and you need a coagulant, like you don't want the you don't have to wait a long time for that to work. And similarly, it's like if you are suffering from

suicidal ideation and are at risk of harming or killing yourself, you need something that's gonna work really quickly. In which case Just putting this out there as intravenous ketamine treatment may be something you consider It's not going to fix all of your problems, but it's gonna stop. The immediate bleeding, so to speak. Isn't that what they do? If someone comes in and they're about to commit suicide, don't they give them my viketamine? Like I've heard that's a thing. I don't know.

What it looks like. Actually I'd love to hear from people in the audience who who know how something like that is triaged in an ER, right? If somebody shows up and maybe a loved one brought them and they're like I'm gonna blow my head off. I would have to imagine there's like sedation, maybe they use some hypnotics. They might use ketamine. I don't know, but in a I had heard that once. I thought uh I do know I know a number of people who were on the verge of

blowing their heads off. Who With Competent supervised. Academy assisted therapy. mean literally within one or two sessions were able to say, I don't know what I was so upset about.

Like I can't even believe I was so wound up about that. And that's incredible. It's not a Indefinite fix. But To answer your question to come back, like there are cases in which

I think it makes sense to have some type of maintenance dose, right? So let's just say you're able to strip out a bunch of the hallucinogenic or psychedelic effects from LSD. And it remains incredibly effective for cluster headaches, which is actually one indication. And the best combination of effect.

And minimizing side effects. is to have like some small dose four or five days a week, great. Fantastic. But if you're trying to process Or contend with some type of

childhood trauma that has been Plaguing your automatic behaviors and maybe dictions. Perhaps being a self. destructive or otherwise destructive behaviors. Then I don't know if

What we need is a maintenance drug. There may be more psychological surgery required for that, in which case perhaps the content does play a meaningful role. I happen to believe that's the case. In many instances. Ten years from now, yeah, psychedelics is gonna be crazy because

uh it's subject to these market forces and these incentives. So Don't ask a barber if you need a haircut kind of situation. If you go to an orthopedic surgeon and you're like, Do I need surgery? They're not all gonna say you need surgery, but they have a certain Incentive. to do surgery. Yeah. Uh, and so realizing that in advance is is important. But I I do think what we will find through the study of psychedelics

Is Even if psychedelics as compounds were to disappear ten years from now? Let's just say. Let's just say they go back to being reclassified. Rescheduled and then

all over the place and then who knows, like some senator's kid jumps off a balcony and then the whole thing goes kaput and it's thrown back into psychedelic. Scientific winter. Even if that's the case, within the next ten to fifteen years, I think we will learn So many new things about the functioning of the mind and processing of trauma, metabolizing of difficult experience.

And Issues such as treatment resistant depression, complex PTSD. That The treatment paradigms will shift even if The compounds.

disappear, which I don't think they will. And I also think there're so many indications that do not require high doses of psychedelics which will be well treated. With lower doses of psychedelics. So I'm excited to to see what bears out. Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. Awesome. Anything else you wanted to cover? I think that's it for me. Yeah.

I'm I'm good as well. That was awesome. Yeah. Good to see you, brother. Yeah. Good to see you too, man. Thanks for having me over for dinner. Yeah, sitting on our our couch here. Mr. Toast is in the background for those watching the audience. Twelve and doing well. Yeah.

Passed out. So you know, w not that long. Well, it is I mean, it is long ago. Not in like historical uh evolutionary terms, but in like our lifetime terms a while ago. Like we had a we had a shot very much like this in San Francisco in one of your I don't know I don't want to say first apartments, but earlier earlier apartments. With a couch like this and toast walked by as a puppy and chewed through one of these XLR cables. Back then I had a little bit of hair.

That's right. Isn't that crazy that you had hair back then? Yeah, it's weird. It's weird. Somebody was asking me, they're like, Yeah, but you could probably figure out how to regrow hair. And I'm like, Yeah, but if I just suddenly like disappeared for six months and then reappeared with like a huge mop on my head. I mean that's what Elon Musk did. Did you see the early Elon Musk pictures where he was involved? Yeah, you could do it. I could do it, but I A, I don't I don't feel the need B I just think, especially from my friends, I would get so much endless shit. Do you think you should do it, Dar well, right now? She said no. No. Yeah.

No. Yeah, yeah. It's Tim Tim, yeah. Mr. Clean. I've grown into the Mr. Clean look. I'm good. I'm good with it. Uh all right, brother. All right. We'll do this again in a few months. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. See more of each other in person. All right.

Face to face. Hey guys, this is Tim again, just one more thing before you take off, and that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading. albums perhaps gadgets gizmos all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends including a lot of podcast guests and these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then I test them and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun again it's very short a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try out, just go to Tim.blog slash Friday. Type that into your browser, Tim.blog slash.

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